My public apology

[raggthyme]

First, I would like to publicly apologize to linker, inthenow, larry2, JohnDB, fenton and anyone else I may have frustrated or offended in any of the posts I've written lately.. or even since I first came here.

Tonight I realized something, and I should have seen it before but I'm slow, and I get tunnel vision. No excuse though because I've been called out by some members for rude comments and unChristian behavior. And as much as I want to deny it in my own pride, I can see what you all are saying. I'm sorry for being snide and just downright unkind, I really am.

I've noticed something else, I've forgotten that I came here to learn. And I keep saying I'm open to how the Lord would lead but I have been kidding myself. Anything that opposes my current view, I cast off. I realize I should be willing to take what you guys are saying and prayerfully consider it, search the scriptures and see if it is so. Instead I just argue my points. I ask God for a dose of humility. I should also consider that I actually might be wrong. What a concept! I don't understand everything... what if I am misinterpreting the very texts that I feel validate my view? I can see that my pride has blinded me to this lately as I keep spewing out the same things over and over, I've even grown quite tired of hearing myself!

Tonight it hit me, I don't tell my 9 year old about Preterism, just in case I am wrong. I don't tell him because I don't want to be guilty of teaching him something that isn't truth. So when it comes to his questions about Jesus coming back I have pretty much avoided them. It hit me like a ton of bricks, I don't tell him because I'm not sure. Period. As much as I'd like to think I'm sure, deep down I'm just not. Everything in me wants Him to appear, everything in me wants to see Him vindicated as every eye beholds Him, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. He's the KING, great and glorious! I want all of creation to bow down in recognition. But then I remember what I believe about the context of this or that, about the time statements and everything I've been "defending" here on this forum for the last 4 months or so. I'm torn. I can't ever read those verses the same way, but the desire to see Him come down to take back what rightfully belongs to Him (to see this sin-ridden earth restored) is deep within me. I can't keep denying that. I really don't know what to believe right now. I'm stuck in between my Preterist paradigm and my heart's desire. When I read I see one thing, when I contemplate this life I see another.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." I can't tell you how many times God has brought that verse to mind. But tonight I realize and am ashamed to say, I do not fear Him the way I should. If I did I would keep my mouth shut and not attempt to teach others what I won't even teach my own child. I pray for God's forgiveness if I've lead anyone astray or taken away hope that rightfully belongs to them, or made anyone doubt the truth of His word. From now on I will keep my views to myself, so as not to stumble anyone else.

John, you got it right. I hated hearing you say it but it's true. I do like to defend what I believe, but my motives, if I'm really being honest with myself, have been to expose the supposed faults of your view and get people to believe like I do. Yes, I want those who are in the same place I've been to have somewhere to turn rather than to unbelief, but I'm lying to myself if I don't admit I hope to sway people who are content in their present views. I'm sorry I couldn't see that before, or I didn't want to. Linker, you were correct in saying I just like to argue for display. That's a big part of this too.

All this to say again, I am sorry. I'm stepping away from posting on this forum realizing I cannot delete all the things I've said. I understand that people are still going to read my posts and that's a shameful feeling, now that I've come out and admitted these things publicly. But so be it, it feels a heck of a lot better to be honest before God and fellow believers than to save face. It's not pretty, but it's necessary.

Anyhow, I know that this is not what "start a new topic" is meant for, but I didn't know how else to apologize to everyone, member and visitor alike. So thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope it doesn't get deleted, at least not right away...

God bless,
Raggthyme

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why not tell your 9 y/o that you don't know, but are seeking the answers? One of the most important things that we can learn in life is that it's OK to not know. The real problems start when we can't admit that we don't know.

[MixedEmotions]

Do not be so hard on yourself, Raggthyme.  While it is a surety that our manner ought always to be Christian, sometimes our passion does get the best of us.

Preterism lets the natural meaning of time (at hand, near, nigh, must shortly come to pass, quickly) define the nature of the Parousia.

Futurism lets their understanding of the nature define the time of the Parousia.

It is very interesting to see that you are willing to admit that you might not be right as a preterist, but so far I have never seen a futurist publicly declare the same thing.  Linker responded in his usual arrogant fashion of "A wise change of direction ragg," absolutely void of any possible error in his own reasoning...

As long as a person views "earth" in Scripture as being in reference to the planet Earth, they are miles away from even beginning their journey.  Our planet didn't even get its name until hundreds of years AFTER Calvary.

We simply must stop trying to interpret the Bible through a 20th century Western cultural and scientific understanding.

[thethinker]

raggthyme said:

John, you got it right. I hated hearing you say it but it's true. I do like to defend what I believe, but my motives, if I'm really being honest with myself, have been to expose the supposed faults of your view and get people to believe like I do.

Raggthyme,

John is no different. Neither is Linker. He belittles by calling people "son." All of us are here because we like to argue. Only people who like to argue post on discussion boards.

I am disappointed in you for arguing when you are not sure about Preterism. You have undermined it all now. As a result I am deleting my account here.

God Bless,

thinker

[larry2]

Thank you so much for the things you have said before us and especially before God; may we all be so honest before Him. You do not need be ashamed of what you believed and said; we have all done things we would change, but we are saved in spite of ourselves. Do I have all things right? I'll guarantee you I still learn as I grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord.

You express a hope you realize won't go away, and to me that is the hope which is laid up for you in heaven. Without a vision the people perish, and with God there is hope beyond reason. I read that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen; Lord Jesus, come soon. I know I am going to see my Lord and all who have believed on Him will also. Praise His name. Thank you again raggthyme in Jesus' name.

[raggthyme]

I apologize to you as well, thinker. I'm sorry to see it was me who caused you to leave. You've been an encouragement to me in my struggles and I greatly appreciate that. It wasn't my intent to undermine anything but I do take responsibility for my actions and agree that I should not have been arguing for Preterism. Ultimately, I still had a bit of doubt and it was just too soon. My mistake and again, I am sorry.

[MixedEmotions]

raggthyme said:

John, you got it right. I hated hearing you say it but it's true. I do like to defend what I believe, but my motives, if I'm really being honest with myself, have been to expose the supposed faults of your view and get people to believe like I do.

Raggthyme,

John is no different. Neither is Linker. He belittles by calling people "son." All of us are here because we like to argue. Only people who like to argue post on discussion boards.

I am disappointed in you for arguing when you are not sure about Preterism. You have undermined it all now. As a result I am deleting my account here.

God Bless,

thinker

I am ashamed of you, thinker.  Not all of us come here to argue.  You have made it abundantly clear that you do however.  The mannerisms of your posts are indicative of just that.

And now you use Raggthyme as a scape goat so that you can escape this forum.  Pitiful conduct even as a Christian...

And do you really believe that one person's uncertainty undermines it all now?  My certainty is not at all undermined.  It seems you lack confidence in what you believe as well - yet you blame Raggthyme for it.

Everyone has undergone some kind of change in theology, whether it be a minor point or major point since they first began their journey.  Some of us have learned that because we have changed in some theological view, it means that we were once wrong - since both of the different views can not be right.  Some of us have also learned to be a little more tolerant of people and their views.  Evidently, you still have need of this lesson.

If near, nigh, quickly, must shortly come to pass, etc. are to have no meaning, then the Bible has no meaning either.  It becomes just like those who use 2 Peter 3:8 to explain away time yet are rigid that the thousands (plural) in Revelation are to mean a literal 1000-year millennium.  Why can't it be a 24-hour day based upon the SAME content from 2 Peter 3:8?  It works both ways ya know.  But that isn't even considered.  Why not say that the heavens and earth were created in six thousands years?  Huh?  Why didn't Christ rise after 3,000 days instead of just 3 days, huh?  Why can't you use 2 Peter 3:8 to express time like that.  Ohhhhhhh, it's only for eschatology...ya right!

2 Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.      

I honestly believe that this generation has no clue that Peter was drawing from Psalm 90:4 to express God's complete and utter faithfulness to his promises...but then again, many people here have another meaning for "this generation" apart from its normal usage throughout the New Testament, right?

Keep studying, Raggthyme.  Don't ever quit.

Futurists have no original interpretation of the Scriptures in regard to eschatology.  They do, however, have an original interpretation for every other biblical "ology" (angelology, Christology, ecclesiology, sotierology, etc.).  One must wonder why they are so inconsistent in their hermeneutic structure.

As a preterist having come from this non-audience relevant hermeneutical background, I know why.

Only a 20th century Western cultural and scientific hermeneutic offers up explanations for passages of Scripture that the entire 1st century church would have had NO CLUE.  For instance, laser implants for the mark of the beast.  Pitiful.  Just pitiful...

[inthenow]

MixedEmotions:
If near, nigh, quickly, must shortly come to pass, etc. are to have no meaning, then the Bible has no meaning either.  It becomes just like those who use 2 Peter 3:8 to explain away time yet are rigid that the thousands (plural) in Revelation are to mean a literal 1000-year millennium.  Why can't it be a 24-hour day based upon the SAME content from 2 Peter 3:8?

Because there is evening and morning a new day.
If the earth was turning so slow that there was 1000 years between evening and the next evening, there would be no gravity, hence no people or anything that was not bolted down.

It works both ways ya know.  But that isn't even considered.  Why not say that the heavens and earth were created in six thousands years?  Huh?  Why didn't Christ rise after 3,000 days instead of just 3 days, huh?  Why can't you use 2 Peter 3:8 to express time like that.  Ohhhhhhh, it's only for eschatology...ya right!

A day for the Lord being as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day, is because God lives in eternity, and time has no constraints on Him. That's the meaning of that verse.

[inthenow]

thethinker:
Raggthyme,

John is no different. Neither is Linker. He belittles by calling people "son."

You call people friend, when by your words at times they are clearly not.

 All of us are here because we like to argue. Only people who like to argue post on discussion boards.

Are you so blind to see, that not all are like that, you are the minority.

I am disappointed in you for arguing when you are not sure about Preterism. You have undermined it all now. As a result I am deleting my account here.

You had nothing to be undermined.

God Bless,

thinker

Her doubts are the reason for your dilema, yeah sure, be truthful, instead of trying to load guilt on raggthyme, and  to make you feel better.

[fenton]

ragg

i read what people post on here and then i put it to the test.  i pray and pray then pray again. and then i get still and listen for the Holy Spirit speak to me.

i have read and prayed hard over what you guys have posted, and it does not feel right, doubts etc.. so, i do not believe in preterist.

if you are having inner doubts then maybe the Holy Spirit is speaking to you.
jmo   

[Lehigh]

raggthyme said:

John, you got it right. I hated hearing you say it but it's true. I do like to defend what I believe, but my motives, if I'm really being honest with myself, have been to expose the supposed faults of your view and get people to believe like I do.

Raggthyme,

John is no different. Neither is Linker. He belittles by calling people "son." All of us are here because we like to argue. Only people who like to argue post on discussion boards.

I am disappointed in you for arguing when you are not sure about Preterism. You have undermined it all now. As a result I am deleting my account here.

God Bless,

thinker

Oh, I see why you left thinker.

Apologies?  WTH?  Wow, I am certainly thankful to have a strong backbone and conviction! I won't be apologizing for or undermining the truth of Preterism. Preterism will come to light in this generation. It's the new Reformation.

God bless!

Lehigh

[inthenow]

2Ti_2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

It was around then.

[Lehigh]

2Ti_2:18  Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

It was around then.

In AD65 the resurrection hadn't occurred yet. If the resurrection wasn't a spiritual event, they wouldn't be able to convince anyone that it had happened.  Therefore, the 70AD resurrection was not an observable event for the living or
the dead. But they both entered into God's Holy Zion.