Author Topic: Satan is in the lake of fire  (Read 21331 times)

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thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2011, 04:38:17 PM »
I only belittled your claims thethinker.  ::whistle::

I only belittled your non reply reply.

thinker

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2011, 04:42:44 PM »
And ummm.....  since the Bible specifically calls Satan our "adversary" in I Peter

and since Satan is always pictured in an adversarial relationship to God and His people in the Old Testament

Then I'm totally fine with taking the PRIMARY definition and saying it's still talking about Satan.

Besides


#1...
You're taking I Chronicles out of context and saying God enticed David to take a census when the Bible says point blank in James that God does not tempt anyone.

#2
Strong's Dictionary also says (cut and paste) "an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch enemy of good"

#3
You avoided any mention of Job


Huge stretch to explain away these things and then use this as your proof that Satan was bound during the Old Testament.



Satan was still loosed when Peter was written but was about to be crushed (Romans 16:20). THEIR accuser was crushed. Consequently, WE do not have an accuser.

Again, Peter was written during the "little season" of satan's loosing when THEIR accuser was loosed and rampant.

thinker

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2011, 04:45:46 PM »

Why do we continue to have an accuser?

Because he doesn't have any love in his heart.

Galatians 4:16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2011, 04:50:00 PM »

In 1 Chronicles 21:1 God was Israel's "opponent." We are CLEARLY told this in 2 Samuel 24:1. It explicitly says that it was God who moved David against Israel. There is no old tesatament evidence that satan was active after he was cursed in the garden. John's vision went back to the binding of the "ANCIENT serpent." He was loosed when Christ appeared and judged at Christ's second appearance in ad70 and cast into the lake of fire.

thinker


Why do we continue to have an accuser? Is the lake of fire in high places? Ephesians 6:12  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The first saints defeated those in the high places. Paul said that satan would be crushed under THEIR feet SHORTLY (Rom. 16:20). The forces of darkness have been removed from the high places and are now in the lake of fire.

Paul said that THEY (the first saints) were seated in the high places doing battle with the forces of darkness in the high places so that WE in the AGES TO COME might have salvation (Eph. 2:6-7; 6:10-13).

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larry2

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 05:02:09 PM »

I reckon I just never thought of heaven or eternity being like this. Has our last enemy death been destroyed?

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 05:02:09 PM »



thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 05:25:00 PM »

I reckon I just never thought of heaven or eternity being like this. Has our last enemy death been destroyed?

Who said heaven is like this? Yes THEIR last enemy death has been destroyed. Consequently, WE do not die. WE go straight to be with Jesus in our body from heaven (2 Corinthians 4:16-5:5). THEY did not go straight to be with Jesus. THEY had to sleep in hades (sheol) until Christ abolished death which He did by the time 2 Timothy was written:

who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, WHO HAS ABOLISHED DEATH and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

2 Timothy 1:9-10


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Lehigh

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2011, 08:02:58 PM »
Quote
But what about the destruction of Death?  Death is thrown into the Lake of Fire as well.

Yes, Satan and the devil are used in a variety of ways in scripture. The devil had the power of death - and the sting of death was sin. The devil incarnate was  represented as sins in our flesh.
The power of death was always in "sin" and not a demonic being.  And the power of sin was the Law. ( see 1 Cor. 15:56)


Offline apokalupsis

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2011, 08:03:15 PM »
It's a watered down hope.  Death exists in painful reality all over the world, but the promise that death will be "destroyed" and that "there will be no more" sorrow or pain or death, or the promise that "the old order of things" will pass away... really just means that we will live forever in eternity in Heaven instead of Paradise with Abraham?

That's it?  That's the best God can do?  Really.

And it's simply not necessary because Bible prophecy, taken straightforwardly, is not only a greater hope than this by far, but is perfectly consistent with Scripture and our world.  Why go off in left field like this when the plain sense makes sense?

And what about the Ephesians?  When Paul wrote the church in Rome and told them Satan would be crushed underneath their feet, why not the Ephesians? Why didn't he tell them the same thing? Or any other church?  After all, the entire context of that verse in Romans 16:19 is speaking specifically to one church.  Not to the world-wide church.  



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Offline apokalupsis

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2011, 08:05:38 PM »

Yes, Satan and the devil are used in a variety of ways in scripture. The devil had the power of death - and the sting of death was sin. The devil incarnate was  represented as sins in our flesh.
The power of death was always in "sin" and not a demonic being.  And the power of sin was the Law. ( see 1 Cor. 15:56)

So how can you believe Satan is literally in hell, but you can't believe that death will literally be destroyed?

OR do you believe in Satan at all?  Many people believe he is simply symbolic of sin or evil or Republicans.
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Lehigh

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2011, 08:23:52 PM »

Yes, Satan and the devil are used in a variety of ways in scripture. The devil had the power of death - and the sting of death was sin. The devil incarnate was  represented as sins in our flesh.
The power of death was always in "sin" and not a demonic being.  And the power of sin was the Law. ( see 1 Cor. 15:56)

So how can you believe Satan is literally in hell, but you can't believe that death will literally be destroyed?

OR do you believe in Satan at all?  Many people believe he is simply symbolic of sin or evil or Republicans.

Death is destroyed, Eternal life begins now.  But it is still appointed for man to die once. and then his/her judgment or not.  Christ defeated "death" but He still had to die to do it.

Eternal life isn't appreciated this side of eternity because it takes faith, which is the substance of things not seen.

Do I believe "in" Satan? No. We give something much more power when we believe in it.  I don't believe there is a Satanic being.
Satan and the devil are used as a source of evil or temptation in scripture. For instance, the "thorn" that was in Paul's side that was from Satan. Peter and Paul cwere continuously challenged and burdened by the Judaizers- like " Satan masquerading as angels of light."
That merely meant that the Judaizers were false apostles.  See, so Satan IS an adversary and a source of evil.  Sometimes personified too.
The influence of Satan is "to sin."  That's what is left of Satan after being thrown to the lake of fire.
But there's definitely no demonic being called Satan.

Offline Consumingfire

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2011, 12:10:46 PM »
TO ALL,

The thousands of years were fulfilled during the old testament period when satan was bound. John's vision in Revelation 20 took him BACK IN TIME. John said that he saw the "ANCIENT serpent" in a great chain and cast into the abyss. John saw the "ANCIENT serpent" cast into the abyss. The proof that satan was bound during the ot period is that there was no satanic activity during the old testament period.

Then John's vision takes him to the "little season" in His present time. The "little season" was that period of time between Christ's first and second comings. This is when satan was loosed. This is the very first time we see satanic activity since the temptation in the garden. There was no satanic activity after the garden incident UNTIL Christ appeared. The absence of ALL satanic activity before Christ proves that satan was bound until Christ's first coming.

Thus the first saints were in the "little season" but in the end of it. We know this to be true because satan's judgment was NEAR TO THEM. Jesus said, "NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out" (John 12:32). Paul said that satan would be "SHORTLY" dashed to pieces under the feet of the first Christians (Rom. 16:20). So satan was dashed to pieces under THEIR feet and subsequently cast into the lake of fire.

So here is the true biblical chronology:

1. Satan bound around the time he was cursed in the garden and throughout the old testament period (no satanic activity).

2. He was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first coming and His second coming in ad70 (all kinds of satanic activity during this time).

3. He was judged in ad70 and cast into the lake of fire (mankind is the sole source of all evil now).

4. We are in the new earth which is the eternal new covenant age (The first heaven and earth were the old covenant, Deuteronomy chaps 30-32. The physical heaven and earth has no prophetic relevance).

thinker

1Ch 21:1   And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Job 1:6   Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 1:7   And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 1:8   And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 1:9   Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

Job 1:12   And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2:1   Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 2:2   And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Job 2:3   And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 2:4   And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

Job 2:6   And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but save his life.

Job 2:7   So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

Psa 109:6  Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Zec 3:1   And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.


Blessings

Joyfullee,

The word "sawtawn" in the Hebrew simply means "accuser." So 1 Chronicles should read, "And an accuser stood up against Israel...." The "accuser" that stood against Israel was God:

"And the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel and He moved David against them...." 2 Samuel 24:1

Job's "accuser" (sawtawn) was a man.

Psalm 109:6 simply means "accuser"

"Set a wicked man over him, And let an accuser stand at his right hand." NKJV

In Zechariah God was the "Adversary" (sawtawn) and the Angel of God (Christ) was Joshua's Advocate:

" 1And he sheweth me Joshua the high priest standing before the messenger of Jehovah, and the Adversary standing at his right hand, to be an adversary to him." Young's Literal Translation

The translations which say "satan" are wrong.

Satan was bound throughout the old testament period. He was loosed for the "little season" between the two comings of Christ. It was not until then that we see satanic activity. He was judged in the first century and cast into the lake of fire.

thinker




This is not the first or last time you have been completely off on a subject. This is, however, one of the most egregious misinterpretations that I have seen.  Satan is referred to as the accuser and used in conjunction with being the accuser several times in the Bible.  God is the completely opposite of the accuser and this is referenced throughout the Bible. 

I think one problem you are having is with going to deep into your anthropomorphic comparisons.  You tend to sometimes go way, way to far with a concept that is should only be used as grounds for fundamental and basic levels of understanding. 

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2011, 08:24:41 PM »
I see the board is running again so I'll be back.

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Offline apokalupsis

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2011, 08:42:45 PM »

Yes, Satan and the devil are used in a variety of ways in scripture. The devil had the power of death - and the sting of death was sin. The devil incarnate was  represented as sins in our flesh.
The power of death was always in "sin" and not a demonic being.  And the power of sin was the Law. ( see 1 Cor. 15:56)

So how can you believe Satan is literally in hell, but you can't believe that death will literally be destroyed?

OR do you believe in Satan at all?  Many people believe he is simply symbolic of sin or evil or Republicans.

Death is destroyed, Eternal life begins now.  But it is still appointed for man to die once. and then his/her judgment or not.  Christ defeated "death" but He still had to die to do it.

Eternal life isn't appreciated this side of eternity because it takes faith, which is the substance of things not seen.

Do I believe "in" Satan? No. We give something much more power when we believe in it.  I don't believe there is a Satanic being.
Satan and the devil are used as a source of evil or temptation in scripture. For instance, the "thorn" that was in Paul's side that was from Satan. Peter and Paul cwere continuously challenged and burdened by the Judaizers- like " Satan masquerading as angels of light."
That merely meant that the Judaizers were false apostles.  See, so Satan IS an adversary and a source of evil.  Sometimes personified too.
The influence of Satan is "to sin."  That's what is left of Satan after being thrown to the lake of fire.
But there's definitely no demonic being called Satan.

Figured.  Look, you have to do so many gymnastics of interpretation with passages such as Christ's explanation of Satan (which is different than your own), Christ's temptation, Peter's description of Satan, Paul's references to Satan, Adam and Eve's confrontation with Satan, the account of Satan in the book of Job, etc....

That in the end, the Bible cannot be taken seriously.  Any passage can be twisted to mean something else.  Seeking some hidden meaning in the text may be an attempt to appear more enlightened, but it glorifies man and man's interpretation, while transforming God into any sort of God we desire. 

How do we know God even exists?  Perhaps he is just an expression of good, not a literal being.

this is merely a form of godliness, devoid of power
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Lehigh

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2011, 10:11:00 AM »
Figured also that learning is only for the open minded!
"Peter's description of Satan?"  Right there you either do not recognize or just deny anyway that "they" were in an "evil age," and say no, Peter meant in our modern times! And "twisting" scripture is for those who think God can't relate time to man and must elasticize "soon" or "shortly" - even though God's time statements are clear. 
If the terms "Satan"and the "devil" are all used in scripture as the same evil incarnate being - then why did Christ call Peter "Satan?" I know why, but I do not have the time to explain all the different ways Satan and the devil are used in scripture.

So, no way, the end of that "evil age" came.  (Gal.1:4; Eph.6:12)
We are in that "age to come."
That age  (this age now) is the "kingdom of God."  And it never ends. (Isa.9:7;Dan.2:35;2:44;Eph.3:21)

Offline apokalupsis

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 07:59:38 AM »
Peter's description of Satan was true in his time and in our time.  Why would it not be?  

Did not Peter write during a period of persecution?  But in the last 100 years more Christians have been killed for their faith than the rest of history combined.   Which time was more evil?  If I'm just going by dead Christians, I'd have to say modern times.  So then this must be an evil time as well.  Or is there another measure besides persecution that makes that time more evil?  Idolatry? Rebellion? Immorality?  Don't these things fit today even more?

Peter himself explained "soon" and "shortly" from God's point of view in II Peter 3 so there is no need for me to do anything except take Peter at his word regarding those terms.

And it's the same thing I do with what Peter said about Satan.  Anything else would be inconsistent and poor exegesis.


« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:57:22 AM by apokalupsis »
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