Author Topic: Satan is in the lake of fire  (Read 22827 times)

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EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #140 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 16:18:38 »

Lucifer was NOT satan in Isaiah 14. The prophecy was a proverbial taunt against the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar). Verse 3 says,

"You will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon saying...."

It is the king of Babylon who was said to "fall from heaven" (proverbially speaking). Jesus used the same proverb against the city of Capernaum saying that it had "fallen from heaven." That Isaiah's prophecy was about the fall of a MAN is confirmed in verse 16. After the king of Babylon (Lucifer) falls the people mock him saying,

"This is the MAN who made the earth tremble."

I accept that satan was a real person. But I reject that he fell from heaven and that he was to be identified with Lucifer. Satan was created on the earth and was associated with the beasts of the field  (Gen. 3:1). The name "Lucifer" was a proverbial name for the king of Babylon who fell from heaven proverbially speaking in the way Capernaum "fell from heaven."

There never was and never will be a sinful creature in God's heaven, that is, His abode. Satan was created on the earth. He was exclusively an earth bound creature. He tempted the man and the woman. After that he was cast into the abyss for the thousands of years. There was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period until he was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first and second comings. He was judged and cast into the lake of fire in ad70. The book of Hebrews was written very near to ad70. Hebrews 2:8 says that God put all Christ's enemies under His feet. It says that God left not one thing that is not put under Him. This includes satan! Paul said that God was to crush satan under the feet of the Roman christians "shortly."

Satan is in the lake of fire. There you have it! You have a synopsis of my views about satan.

thinker

thethinker, I am not sure who you are responding to.  Is it to linker or to me?
I also hope you realize that I was saying to linker (if he does believe satan to be lucifer) that no proof exists for such a belief.  Anyway, he doesn't seem to want to tell us his beliefs about satan; and I don't really care to hear them either because there won't be any Scripture supplied, and even if there is, it won't match what he says...

I agreed with most everything you said.  You seem to be of the opinion that satan was a single created being.  Please clarify for me; is this what you meant?  And what Scripture do you use to support this?

Also, if you could provide the Scriptures so that I may look at them to support your understanding of the following:

"After that he was cast into the abyss for the thousands of years. There was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period until he was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first and second comings."

Thank you.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #141 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 18:19:57 »

Lucifer was NOT satan in Isaiah 14. The prophecy was a proverbial taunt against the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar). Verse 3 says,

"You will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon saying...."

It is the king of Babylon who was said to "fall from heaven" (proverbially speaking). Jesus used the same proverb against the city of Capernaum saying that it had "fallen from heaven." That Isaiah's prophecy was about the fall of a MAN is confirmed in verse 16. After the king of Babylon (Lucifer) falls the people mock him saying,

"This is the MAN who made the earth tremble."

I accept that satan was a real person. But I reject that he fell from heaven and that he was to be identified with Lucifer. Satan was created on the earth and was associated with the beasts of the field  (Gen. 3:1). The name "Lucifer" was a proverbial name for the king of Babylon who fell from heaven proverbially speaking in the way Capernaum "fell from heaven."

There never was and never will be a sinful creature in God's heaven, that is, His abode. Satan was created on the earth. He was exclusively an earth bound creature. He tempted the man and the woman. After that he was cast into the abyss for the thousands of years. There was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period until he was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first and second comings. He was judged and cast into the lake of fire in ad70. The book of Hebrews was written very near to ad70. Hebrews 2:8 says that God put all Christ's enemies under His feet. It says that God left not one thing that is not put under Him. This includes satan! Paul said that God was to crush satan under the feet of the Roman christians "shortly."

Satan is in the lake of fire. There you have it! You have a synopsis of my views about satan.

thinker


thethinker, I am not sure who you are responding to.  Is it to linker or to me?
I also hope you realize that I was saying to linker (if he does believe satan to be lucifer) that no proof exists for such a belief.  Anyway, he doesn't seem to want to tell us his beliefs about satan; and I don't really care to hear them either because there won't be any Scripture supplied, and even if there is, it won't match what he says...

I agreed with most everything you said.  You seem to be of the opinion that satan was a single created being.  Please clarify for me; is this what you meant?  And what Scripture do you use to support this?

Also, if you could provide the Scriptures so that I may look at them to support your understanding of the following:

"After that he was cast into the abyss for the thousands of years. There was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period until he was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first and second comings."

Thank you.



EG,

I was responding to the traditional view of satan. I believe that satan was an individual and personal being but that he was NOT fallen from heaven. He was created an earthbound creature. Moses explicitly said that the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the field which the Lord God had made.

I believe that satan was bound and cast into the abyss after the fall of man in the garden. John said that he saw the "ANCIENT SERPENT" be cast into the abyss. This necessarily points back to the garden. The first generation of christians were in the "little season" of satan's loosing. But the vision was taking them back to the garden when it all started.

A proof that satan was bound after the fall is seen in the fact that there was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period (the thousands of years). Moreover, Peter and Jude refer to the event in their past when the evil angels which included satan were chained in Tarturus (a name for the abyss).

It was not until Christ came that we see them on the earth wreaking havoc. This is because they had been loosed from the abyss at some point around that time.

The timing of the judgment is also proof that the binding of satan was past and that the people of God were in the "little season." Jesus said that the prince of this world was being judged "NOW." The judgment of satan comes AFTER the "little season" of his loosing. Judgment "NOW" infers that the "little season" was coming to its end.

Before you challenge my assertion that there was no satanic activity during the old testament period please see page 1 of this thread replies 6 and ff.

Satan did NOT fall from heaven. he was an earthbound creature. There is only one passage offered us as a "proof text" that satan fell from heaven and it is found in Isaiah 14. But the prophecy is CLEARLY about the fall of the king of Babylon without dispute. Therefore, there is NO passage in the bible which says that satan fell from heaven. None! Zilch! Nada! Satan was created an earthbound creature. By "earthbound" I include the lower heavens such as the skies. Satan was NEVER in heaven itself, the abode of God where only righteous men and angels may dwell and may NEVER fall.

Tomorrow,

thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #142 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 18:41:30 »

Lucifer was NOT satan in Isaiah 14. The prophecy was a proverbial taunt against the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar). Verse 3 says,

"You will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon saying...."

It is the king of Babylon who was said to "fall from heaven" (proverbially speaking). Jesus used the same proverb against the city of Capernaum saying that it had "fallen from heaven." That Isaiah's prophecy was about the fall of a MAN is confirmed in verse 16. After the king of Babylon (Lucifer) falls the people mock him saying,

"This is the MAN who made the earth tremble."

I accept that satan was a real person. But I reject that he fell from heaven and that he was to be identified with Lucifer. Satan was created on the earth and was associated with the beasts of the field  (Gen. 3:1). The name "Lucifer" was a proverbial name for the king of Babylon who fell from heaven proverbially speaking in the way Capernaum "fell from heaven."

There never was and never will be a sinful creature in God's heaven, that is, His abode. Satan was created on the earth. He was exclusively an earth bound creature. He tempted the man and the woman. After that he was cast into the abyss for the thousands of years. There was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period until he was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first and second comings. He was judged and cast into the lake of fire in ad70. The book of Hebrews was written very near to ad70. Hebrews 2:8 says that God put all Christ's enemies under His feet. It says that God left not one thing that is not put under Him. This includes satan! Paul said that God was to crush satan under the feet of the Roman christians "shortly."

Satan is in the lake of fire. There you have it! You have a synopsis of my views about satan.

thinker


thethinker, I am not sure who you are responding to.  Is it to linker or to me?
I also hope you realize that I was saying to linker (if he does believe satan to be lucifer) that no proof exists for such a belief.  Anyway, he doesn't seem to want to tell us his beliefs about satan; and I don't really care to hear them either because there won't be any Scripture supplied, and even if there is, it won't match what he says...

I agreed with most everything you said.  You seem to be of the opinion that satan was a single created being.  Please clarify for me; is this what you meant?  And what Scripture do you use to support this?

Also, if you could provide the Scriptures so that I may look at them to support your understanding of the following:

"After that he was cast into the abyss for the thousands of years. There was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period until he was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first and second comings."

Thank you.



EG,

I was responding to the traditional view of satan. I believe that satan was an individual and personal being but that he was NOT fallen from heaven. He was created an earthbound creature. Moses explicitly said that the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the field which the Lord God had made.

I believe that satan was bound and cast into the abyss after the fall of man in the garden. John said that he saw the "ANCIENT SERPENT" be cast into the abyss. This necessarily points back to the garden. The first generation of christians were in the "little season" of satan's loosing. But the vision was taking them back to the garden when it all started.

A proof that satan was bound after the fall is seen in the fact that there was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period (the thousands of years). Moreover, Peter and Jude refer to the event in their past when the evil angels which included satan were chained in Tarturus (a name for the abyss).

It was not until Christ came that we see them on the earth wreaking havoc. This is because they had been loosed from the abyss at some point around that time.

The timing of the judgment is also proof that the binding of satan was past and that the people of God were in the "little season." Jesus said that the prince of this world was being judged "NOW." The judgment of satan comes AFTER the "little season" of his loosing. Judgment "NOW" infers that the "little season" was coming to its end.

Before you challenge my assertion that there was no satanic activity during the old testament period please see page 1 of this thread replies 6 and ff.

Satan did NOT fall from heaven. he was an earthbound creature. There is only one passage offered us as a "proof text" that satan fell from heaven and it is found in Isaiah 14. But the prophecy is CLEARLY about the fall of the king of Babylon without dispute. Therefore, there is NO passage in the bible which says that satan fell from heaven. None! Zilch! Nada! Satan was created an earthbound creature. By "earthbound" I include the lower heavens such as the skies. Satan was NEVER in heaven itself, the abode of God where only righteous men and angels may dwell and may NEVER fall.

Tomorrow,

thinker





Job 1:6  When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the LORD, Satan was there among them.

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #143 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 20:37:56 »
EG,

I was responding to the traditional view of satan. I believe that satan was an individual and personal being but that he was NOT fallen from heaven. He was created an earthbound creature. Moses explicitly said that the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the field which the Lord God had made.

I believe that satan was bound and cast into the abyss after the fall of man in the garden. John said that he saw the "ANCIENT SERPENT" be cast into the abyss. This necessarily points back to the garden. The first generation of christians were in the "little season" of satan's loosing. But the vision was taking them back to the garden when it all started.

A proof that satan was bound after the fall is seen in the fact that there was no satanic activity throughout the old testament period (the thousands of years). Moreover, Peter and Jude refer to the event in their past when the evil angels which included satan were chained in Tarturus (a name for the abyss).

It was not until Christ came that we see them on the earth wreaking havoc. This is because they had been loosed from the abyss at some point around that time.

The timing of the judgment is also proof that the binding of satan was past and that the people of God were in the "little season." Jesus said that the prince of this world was being judged "NOW." The judgment of satan comes AFTER the "little season" of his loosing. Judgment "NOW" infers that the "little season" was coming to its end.

Before you challenge my assertion that there was no satanic activity during the old testament period please see page 1 of this thread replies 6 and ff.

Satan did NOT fall from heaven. he was an earthbound creature. There is only one passage offered us as a "proof text" that satan fell from heaven and it is found in Isaiah 14. But the prophecy is CLEARLY about the fall of the king of Babylon without dispute. Therefore, there is NO passage in the bible which says that satan fell from heaven. None! Zilch! Nada! Satan was created an earthbound creature. By "earthbound" I include the lower heavens such as the skies. Satan was NEVER in heaven itself, the abode of God where only righteous men and angels may dwell and may NEVER fall.

Tomorrow,

Well, it seems that we hold a few differences, but each of us are opposed to the traditional teaching.
I agree that satan was not someone who was cast down from heaven.

A couple of questions if you will permit:

1)  These "beasts of the field" that satan was more subtle than, would they be considered similar to the ones mentioned in Hosea?

Hosea 2:18 - And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.   

2)  If satan is an earthbound creature as you say he is, and if you believe the flood was global in nature, how did he survive to bring problems to Job?


Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #144 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 20:42:41 »
Mr EdwardGoodie,

if i remember right i dont think anyone knows when Job was written, it could have been before the flood couldnt it?  ::pondering::

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #144 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 20:42:41 »



EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #145 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 22:18:05 »
Mr EdwardGoodie,

if i remember right i dont think anyone knows when Job was written, it could have been before the flood couldnt it?  ::pondering::

A valid question, to be sure...

If the Sabeans which came in Job 1:15 were pre-flood, then how come Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Joel mention them in the present tense?  Wouldn't they have all been wiped out and only Noah's sons and daughters were left to repopulate (according to a global flood).  The references are Isaiah 45:14, Ezekiel 23:42, and Joel 3:8.

Job, being a priest, offered burnt-offerings (Job 1:5).  How did Job learn to do this pre-Mosaic Law?

Note: This leads to a whole ball of wax about whether there the Levitical laws were common knowledge before Sinai...and even in the events of Cain and Abel.

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #146 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 22:23:02 »
<<<   ::doh:: never thought about the sacrifices

your right he wouldn't have known about them till after Moses

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #147 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 22:40:07 »
<<<   ::doh:: never thought about the sacrifices

your right he wouldn't have known about them till after Moses

This same "difficulty" goes all the way back to Cain and Abel's offerings too.  That ought to cause some sleepless nights! (but not for me)

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #148 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 22:47:50 »
What if the Lord spoke to them differently, like when Abraham went to the mountain to sacrifice his son and found the sacrifice the Lord gave him, that was way before the Mosaic law, right?    ::pondering::

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #149 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 23:27:35 »
TO ALL,

The thousands of years were fulfilled during the old testament period when satan was bound. John's vision in Revelation 20 took him BACK IN TIME. John said that he saw the "ANCIENT serpent" in a great chain and cast into the abyss. John saw the "ANCIENT serpent" cast into the abyss. The proof that satan was bound during the ot period is that there was no satanic activity during the old testament period.

Then John's vision takes him to the "little season" in His present time. The "little season" was that period of time between Christ's first and second comings. This is when satan was loosed. This is the very first time we see satanic activity since the temptation in the garden. There was no satanic activity after the garden incident UNTIL Christ appeared. The absence of ALL satanic activity before Christ proves that satan was bound until Christ's first coming.

Thus the first saints were in the "little season" but in the end of it. We know this to be true because satan's judgment was NEAR TO THEM. Jesus said, "NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out" (John 12:32). Paul said that satan would be "SHORTLY" dashed to pieces under the feet of the first Christians (Rom. 16:20). So satan was dashed to pieces under THEIR feet and subsequently cast into the lake of fire.

So here is the true biblical chronology:

1. Satan bound around the time he was cursed in the garden and throughout the old testament period (no satanic activity).

2. He was loosed for the "little season" between Christ's first coming and His second coming in ad70 (all kinds of satanic activity during this time).

3. He was judged in ad70 and cast into the lake of fire (mankind is the sole source of all evil now).

4. We are in the new earth which is the eternal new covenant age (The first heaven and earth were the old covenant, Deuteronomy chaps 30-32. The physical heaven and earth has no prophetic relevance).

thinker

Don't know where to start,so I will just keep it simple

1.He's not bound,he is now in heaven,where he will be soon kicked out.......

2.He was not loosed,he will not be until the end of the milennium...........

3.He was judged,this is correct,however the time of that judgment happened,before the foundation of this world age,his sentence was death,yet at this time he is still alive.........

4.We are not in the new earth,as this earth is still a violent place,earthquakes,hurricanes,volcanic eruptions,and tonadoes,just to name a few,the new earth will not have such......

Also had Christ came the 2nd time,we would not now still be in flesh bodies,as all will be changed at that time(7th trump).....

Also in the below verse,Christ brings all those that are now in heaven,to this earth,as per the below verse,can you please tell me where these people are now?

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Those refered to as sleep here,are those that have died,these people are now in heaven

Revelation 6:9 
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

So again I ask where are these people.............

Mankind is not the sole source of evil,that's why we must have on the whole armour of God,which is His Word,but even if that were true,in the New World there shall be no evil period..................

Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #150 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 00:27:21 »
back on topic,

 if Satan was bound in the old testament why was he wondering to and fro on the earth, and why did he have to go in front of God and answer Gods question about where he had been and what he was up too!   ::shrug::


He also tempted Jesus after the Lords 40 day and night fast in the desert, sounds to me like he roamed between heaven and earth at his will

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #151 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 00:40:27 »
Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



   ::nodding::   ::amen!::

I sure see allot of sorrow, death, and I darn sure have allot of pain!!   
and i bet all those dead mummies from over 2000 yrs ago are still in their tombs -- o wait some of them have been opened up allready. 

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #152 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 02:05:16 »
Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



   ::nodding::   ::amen!::

I sure see allot of sorrow, death, and I darn sure have allot of pain!!   
and i bet all those dead mummies from over 2000 yrs ago are still in their tombs -- o wait some of them have been opened up allready. 

Amen!!!!!!

raggthyme

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #153 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 02:43:35 »

Mankind is not the sole source of evil,that's why we must have on the whole armour of God,which is His Word,but even if that were true,in the New World there shall be no evil period..................

Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


That verse made me ponder these verses...


Isaiah 65
Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever [in that] which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

So I looked up the word for "troubles" on BLB (LOVE that site) and found that it can mean "rival wife." Not that I'm saying it means that here, but it would make sense if "Old Covenant Jerusalem" truly is mystery Babylon who drinks the cup of the wrath of her fornication. Jesus said that upon her would come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth! Revelation says she is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus. She, being an adulterous wife, would surely be a rival wife. And the context would indicate that God is casting off that one and calling His servants (His church). He says the former things are forgotten, maybe He means the former covenant with it's law of sin and death... replaced with the new covenant where they sorrow no more for the pains of death are removed, sin no longer having dominion over us! Physical pain is inevitable while we live in this world, Jesus said here we would surely have tribulation. Yet the trials of this life are not to be compared to the glory of heaven... but I ramble.

Sorry thinker, BACK TO TOPIC! :)

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #154 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 10:42:32 »
What if the Lord spoke to them differently, like when Abraham went to the mountain to sacrifice his son and found the sacrifice the Lord gave him, that was way before the Mosaic law, right?    ::pondering::

Not sure what you mean by "the Lord spoke to them "differently,"" but I have no problem that the Law was well-known before Sinai.  It is obvious that people were performing offerings long before this time.

Like I said before, the offerings that Cain and Abel performed are of great significance.  Where would they even get that idea?  From their parents, perhaps???

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #155 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 10:59:21 »
Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



   ::nodding::   ::amen!::

I sure see allot of sorrow, death, and I darn sure have allot of pain!!   
and i bet all those dead mummies from over 2000 yrs ago are still in their tombs -- o wait some of them have been opened up allready. 

fenton,

It would really help to understand why John said what he said.  He is alluding to a prior PROMISE TO ISRAEL!

Isaiah 25:8 - He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.  

Notice that this takes place at the same time that death is swallowed up in victory.  Notice also that this too is a PROMISE TO ISRAEL.

I have already shown that the new Jerusalem is to be equated with the church in another post of mine.  The apostle Paul quotes directly from this same verse in 1 Corinthians 15:54:

1 Corinthians 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory

There is a whole lot more but the "resurrection" promise is to old covenant Israel.  Israel does not get resurrected unless it transitions over to the new covenant in Christ - THE CHURCH, the Israel of God, the fulfillment of the OT Scriptures.

Resurrection simply means to be brought back from the dead.  One passes from death unto life through Jesus Christ who is the LIFE.  Christ came to save those who were DEAD in their sins...

Now, if Israel has not yet received her promise (and she most certainly has), THEN WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED IT EITHER...


EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #156 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 11:06:47 »

Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


That verse made me ponder these verses...


Isaiah 65
Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever [in that] which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Hopefully, some day people will be able to correlate how Revelation 21:4's "the former things are passed away" to the new creation in Jesus Christ:

(ESV) 2Co 5:17  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation [ktisis]. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #157 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 01:37:36 »
Revelation 21:4 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



   ::nodding::   ::amen!::

I sure see allot of sorrow, death, and I darn sure have allot of pain!!   
and i bet all those dead mummies from over 2000 yrs ago are still in their tombs -- o wait some of them have been opened up allready. 

fenton,

It would really help to understand why John said what he said.  He is alluding to a prior PROMISE TO ISRAEL!

Isaiah 25:8 - He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.  

Notice that this takes place at the same time that death is swallowed up in victory.  Notice also that this too is a PROMISE TO ISRAEL.

I have already shown that the new Jerusalem is to be equated with the church in another post of mine.  The apostle Paul quotes directly from this same verse in 1 Corinthians 15:54:

1 Corinthians 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory

There is a whole lot more but the "resurrection" promise is to old covenant Israel.  Israel does not get resurrected unless it transitions over to the new covenant in Christ - THE CHURCH, the Israel of God, the fulfillment of the OT Scriptures.

Resurrection simply means to be brought back from the dead.  One passes from death unto life through Jesus Christ who is the LIFE.  Christ came to save those who were DEAD in their sins...

Now, if Israel has not yet received her promise (and she most certainly has), THEN WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED IT EITHER...



Paul said we would not all sleep(DIE)but we all shall be changed,when,at the 7th trump,had Christ returned,we would not now be in flesh bodies as the age of the flesh shall be over.....

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #158 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 02:52:13 »

Mankind is not the sole source of evil,that's why we must have on the whole armour of God,which is His Word,but even if that were true,in the New World there shall be no evil period..................

Revelation 21:4  
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


That verse made me ponder these verses...


Isaiah 65
Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

But be ye glad and rejoice for ever [in that] which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

I think you nailed this here.  ::applause::

Quote
So I looked up the word for "troubles" on BLB (LOVE that site) and found that it can mean "rival wife." Not that I'm saying it means that here, but it would make sense if "Old Covenant Jerusalem" truly is mystery Babylon who drinks the cup of the wrath of her fornication. Jesus said that upon her would come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth! Revelation says she is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus. She, being an adulterous wife, would surely be a rival wife. And the context would indicate that God is casting off that one and calling His servants (His church). He says the former things are forgotten, maybe He means the former covenant with it's law of sin and death... replaced with the new covenant where they sorrow no more for the pains of death are removed, sin no longer having dominion over us! Physical pain is inevitable while we live in this world, Jesus said here we would surely have tribulation. Yet the trials of this life are not to be compared to the glory of heaven... but I ramble.

Sorry thinker, BACK TO TOPIC! :)


I kinda got a little thrown off here except the word troubles. I know it also means the name of a woman in the OT, it's something along the lines of Behlia or Belhia, something like that, her name means trouble. Does her name ring a bell to anyone, what chapter is she in?

raggthyme

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #159 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 03:33:55 »

Quote
So I looked up the word for "troubles" on BLB (LOVE that site) and found that it can mean "rival wife." Not that I'm saying it means that here, but it would make sense if "Old Covenant Jerusalem" truly is mystery Babylon who drinks the cup of the wrath of her fornication. Jesus said that upon her would come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth! Revelation says she is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus. She, being an adulterous wife, would surely be a rival wife. And the context would indicate that God is casting off that one and calling His servants (His church). He says the former things are forgotten, maybe He means the former covenant with it's law of sin and death... replaced with the new covenant where they sorrow no more for the pains of death are removed, sin no longer having dominion over us! Physical pain is inevitable while we live in this world, Jesus said here we would surely have tribulation. Yet the trials of this life are not to be compared to the glory of heaven... but I ramble.

Sorry thinker, BACK TO TOPIC! :)


I kinda got a little thrown off here except the word troubles. I know it also means the name of a woman in the OT, it's something along the lines of Behlia or Belhia, something like that, her name means trouble. Does her name ring a bell to anyone, what chapter is she in?

haha! Ya, I was all over the place on that one. It's not really one cohesive thought is it, just the ramblings of my unorganized mind! (I was really onto something I tell ya, I was.)  ::nodding:: too bad it didn't come out that way. lol

I think I should refrain from posting after midnight...

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #160 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 05:08:19 »

Quote
So I looked up the word for "troubles" on BLB (LOVE that site) and found that it can mean "rival wife." Not that I'm saying it means that here, but it would make sense if "Old Covenant Jerusalem" truly is mystery Babylon who drinks the cup of the wrath of her fornication. Jesus said that upon her would come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth! Revelation says she is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus. She, being an adulterous wife, would surely be a rival wife. And the context would indicate that God is casting off that one and calling His servants (His church). He says the former things are forgotten, maybe He means the former covenant with it's law of sin and death... replaced with the new covenant where they sorrow no more for the pains of death are removed, sin no longer having dominion over us! Physical pain is inevitable while we live in this world, Jesus said here we would surely have tribulation. Yet the trials of this life are not to be compared to the glory of heaven... but I ramble.

Sorry thinker, BACK TO TOPIC! :)


I kinda got a little thrown off here except the word troubles. I know it also means the name of a woman in the OT, it's something along the lines of Behlia or Belhia, something like that, her name means trouble. Does her name ring a bell to anyone, what chapter is she in?

haha! Ya, I was all over the place on that one. It's not really one cohesive thought is it, just the ramblings of my unorganized mind! (I was really onto something I tell ya, I was.)  ::nodding:: too bad it didn't come out that way. lol

I think I should refrain from posting after midnight...

I love those integrated thoughts, it usually takes me a minute to express them clearly after the initial blurt! lol! But, when I mentioned Behla or whatever her name is that means trouble, she was someones daughter, and you even said it could mean "rival wife" but I am not saying that here, maybe because mystery Babylon is someone's daughter? I've always had that inclination, there are 2 women, 1 is arrayed in white and the other is mystery Babylon. One was committed to evil and the other to Christ, both women represent church but only one is the bride/wife. Oh, I see the rival wife now and how you may have gotten that with mystery Babylon, I don't think she is in power any more, only in the hearts and minds of the people that worship the beast. Thank GOD!

Look at what I just found, I think it ties in perfectly with the 2 woman in revelation; 1 Corinthians 6:16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 05:48:49 by Bitter Sweet »

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #161 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 14:06:53 »
back on topic,

 if Satan was bound in the old testament why was he wondering to and fro on the earth, and why did he have to go in front of God and answer Gods question about where he had been and what he was up too!   ::shrug::


He also tempted Jesus after the Lords 40 day and night fast in the desert, sounds to me like he roamed between heaven and earth at his will


Job's adversary was not the devil but a HUMAN accuser. The Hebrew "sawtawn" simply means "adversary. Job's accuser was a MAN. See replies 6 and ff on page 1 to this thread.

6And the day is, that sons of God come in to station themselves by Jehovah, and there doth come also the adversary in their midst.

See Job 1:6 in the Hebrew Interlinear http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

The devil and all the evil angels were chained in Tartarus per Peter and Jude. He had been loosed by the time of Jesus.


thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #162 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 15:06:11 »
back on topic,

 if Satan was bound in the old testament why was he wondering to and fro on the earth, and why did he have to go in front of God and answer Gods question about where he had been and what he was up too!   ::shrug::


He also tempted Jesus after the Lords 40 day and night fast in the desert, sounds to me like he roamed between heaven and earth at his will


Job's adversary was not the devil but a HUMAN accuser. The Hebrew "sawtawn" simply means "adversary. Job's accuser was a MAN. See replies 6 and ff on page 1 to this thread.

6And the day is, that sons of God come in to station themselves by Jehovah, and there doth come also the adversary in their midst.

See Job 1:6 in the Hebrew Interlinear http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

The devil and all the evil angels were chained in Tartarus per Peter and Jude. He had been loosed by the time of Jesus.


thinker


Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  ::smile::.


Luk_10:18  (KJV)  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke observed satan falling from heaven, can a man do that?


Luk_22:3  (KJV)  Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
can satan enter a man as a man??

Rev_12:9  (KJV)  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
called the old serpent, devil and satan same enity three different names


Rev_12:9  (MSG)  The great Dragon--ancient Serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, the one who led the whole earth astray--thrown out, and all his Angels thrown out with him, thrown down to earth.
here again-- three names again only a different version

Rev_20:2  (MSG)  He grabbed the Dragon, that old Snake--the very Devil, Satan himself!--chained him up for a thousand years,
again three names for the same evil enity--not a man!


EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #163 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 15:18:35 »

Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  ::smile::.

My understanding of satan is perhaps a little more broad that that of you or thethinker.  Satan simply means adversary and can be evidenced through man, through a belief, through a system, or anything else that is opposition to God's plan...

Your verse above does not necessarily suggest physical events.  There is a poetic style throughout Job...
The verse above does not posit a place where the LORD was.  It is your assumption that the traditional heaven is that place...


Luk_10:18  (KJV)  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke observed satan falling from heaven, can a man do that?

Careful when attempting to literally interpret...and by literal, I mean according to the literature.  See the word "as"?  It represents a simile (like, as) and cannot be interpreted as a physical-type event.


Luk_22:3  (KJV)  Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
can satan enter a man as a man??

No, a man cannot enter a man, but a thought that is in opposition to God's plan can...

Rev_12:9  (KJV)  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
called the old serpent, devil and satan same enity three different names

No problem there...

Rev_12:9  (MSG)  The great Dragon--ancient Serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, the one who led the whole earth astray--thrown out, and all his Angels thrown out with him, thrown down to earth.
here again-- three names again only a different version

Still no problem there...

Rev_20:2  (MSG)  He grabbed the Dragon, that old Snake--the very Devil, Satan himself!--chained him up for a thousand years,
again three names for the same evil enity--not a man!

And again...



thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #164 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 15:22:53 »
fenton said:
Quote
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  .

Where does it say that the event was taking place in heaven? The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. The Psalms repeatedly say that the people of God are "before His presence" when they worship. Therefore, we are "before the Lord" when we worship though we are not in heaven.

John saw the ANCIENT SERPENT be thrown into the abyss in chains. Peter and Jude say that the evil angels had been chained in Tarturus. They were loosed when Christ appeared.

thinker



Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #165 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 17:47:59 »
fenton said:
Quote
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  .

Where does it say that the event was taking place in heaven? The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. The Psalms repeatedly say that the people of God are "before His presence" when they worship. Therefore, we are "before the Lord" when we worship though we are not in heaven.

John saw the ANCIENT SERPENT be thrown into the abyss in chains. Peter and Jude say that the evil angels had been chained in Tarturus. They were loosed when Christ appeared.

thinker





well I guess its how you interpret sons of God - --  i take it as angels or heavenly beings  -so if it were they, then where else would they meet.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #166 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 18:32:23 »
fenton said:
Quote
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  .

Where does it say that the event was taking place in heaven? The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. The Psalms repeatedly say that the people of God are "before His presence" when they worship. Therefore, we are "before the Lord" when we worship though we are not in heaven.

John saw the ANCIENT SERPENT be thrown into the abyss in chains. Peter and Jude say that the evil angels had been chained in Tarturus. They were loosed when Christ appeared.

thinker





well I guess its how you interpret sons of God - --  i take it as angels or heavenly beings  -so if it were they, then where else would they meet.


Psalm 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5 say that God never called an angel a son.

"To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son."'

The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. Only men are sons of God. Angels are ministering spirits to His sons.

thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #167 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 18:56:41 »
fenton said:
Quote
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  .

Where does it say that the event was taking place in heaven? The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. The Psalms repeatedly say that the people of God are "before His presence" when they worship. Therefore, we are "before the Lord" when we worship though we are not in heaven.

John saw the ANCIENT SERPENT be thrown into the abyss in chains. Peter and Jude say that the evil angels had been chained in Tarturus. They were loosed when Christ appeared.

thinker





well I guess its how you interpret sons of God - --  i take it as angels or heavenly beings  -so if it were they, then where else would they meet.


Psalm 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5 say that God never called an angel a son.

"To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son."'

The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. Only men are sons of God. Angels are ministering spirits to His sons.

thinker

i guess i need to be careful what i read

(MSG)  One day when the angels came to report to GOD, Satan, who was the Designated Accuser, came along with them.

(ISV)  One day, divine beings presented themselves to the LORD, and Satan accompanied them.

(GNB)  When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the LORD, Satan was there among them.

(ERV)  Then the day came for the angels to meet with the LORD. Even Satan was there with them.

(CEV)  One day, when the angels had gathered around the LORD, and Satan was there with them,

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #168 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 19:17:05 »
fenton said:
Quote
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  .

Where does it say that the event was taking place in heaven? The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. The Psalms repeatedly say that the people of God are "before His presence" when they worship. Therefore, we are "before the Lord" when we worship though we are not in heaven.

John saw the ANCIENT SERPENT be thrown into the abyss in chains. Peter and Jude say that the evil angels had been chained in Tarturus. They were loosed when Christ appeared.

thinker





well I guess its how you interpret sons of God - --  i take it as angels or heavenly beings  -so if it were they, then where else would they meet.


Psalm 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5 say that God never called an angel a son.

"To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son."'

The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. Only men are sons of God. Angels are ministering spirits to His sons.

thinker

i guess i need to be careful what i read

(MSG)  One day when the angels came to report to GOD, Satan, who was the Designated Accuser, came along with them.

(ISV)  One day, divine beings presented themselves to the LORD, and Satan accompanied them.

(GNB)  When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the LORD, Satan was there among them.

(ERV)  Then the day came for the angels to meet with the LORD. Even Satan was there with them.

(CEV)  One day, when the angels had gathered around the LORD, and Satan was there with them,

Pagan translations! God NEVER called an angel His son (Ps. 2:7; Heb. 1:5). The sons of God married women which angels cannot do (Gen. 6:3 with Matthew 22:30).

thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #169 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 20:30:24 »
Job 1:6


There was a day when the sons of God - All the versions, and indeed all the critics, are puzzled with the phrase sons of God; בני האלהים  beney haelohim, literally, sons of the God, or sons of the gods. The Vulgate has simply filii dei, sons of God. The Septuagint, οἱ αγγελοι του θεου, the angels of God. The Chaldee, כתי מלאכיא  kittey malachaiya, troops of angels. The Syriac retains the Hebrew words and letters, only leaving out the demonstrative ה  he in the word האלהים  haelohim, thus, (Syriac) baney Elohim. The Arabic nearly copies the Hebrew also, (Arabic) banoa Iloheem; to which, if we give not the literal translation of the Hebrew, we may give what translation we please. Coverdale (1535) translates it, servauntes of God. The Targum supposes that this assembly took place on the day of the great atonement, which occurred once each year. And there was a day of judgment in the beginning of the year; and the troops of angels came, that they might stand in judgment before the Lord. But what are we to make of this whole account? Expositions are endless. That of Mr. Peters appears to me to be at once the most simple and the most judicious: “The Scripture speaks of God after the manner of men, for there is a necessity of condescending to our capacities, and of suiting the revelation to our apprehension. As kings, therefore, transact their most important affairs in a solemn council or assembly, so God is pleased to represent himself as having his council likewise; and as passing the decrees of his providence in an assembly of his holy angels. We have here, in the case of Job, the same grand assembly held, as was before in that of Ahab, 1 Kings 22:6-23; the same host of heaven, called here the sons of God, presenting themselves before Jehovah, as in the vision of Micaiah they are said to stand on his right hand and on his left. A wicked spirit appearing among them, here called Satan or the adversary, and there a lying spirit; both bent on mischief, and ready to do all the hurt they were permitted to do; for both were under the control of his power. The imagery is just the same; and the only difference is in the manner of the relation. That mentioned above, Micaiah, as a prophet, and in the actual exercise of his prophetic office, delivers, as he received it, in a vision. “I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the Host of Heaven standing by him, on his right hand and on his left, and there came forth a Lying Spirit, and stood Before the Lord, and said,

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #170 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 20:44:07 »
Quote
Job's adversary was not the devil but a HUMAN accuser. The Hebrew "sawtawn" simply means "adversary. Job's accuser was a MAN. See replies 6 and ff on page 1 to this thread.

What human man could have sent fire and burned up sheep and servants or sent a great wind from across the wilderness to blow down a dwelling and kill all but one inside?

Regards,
AsAChild

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #171 on: Wed Jan 25, 2012 - 21:24:40 »
fenton said:
Quote
Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them
a man that was in heaven then he descended to earth to do what he wanted???  and you guys think us pentacostals are out there!  .

Where does it say that the event was taking place in heaven? The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. The Psalms repeatedly say that the people of God are "before His presence" when they worship. Therefore, we are "before the Lord" when we worship though we are not in heaven.

John saw the ANCIENT SERPENT be thrown into the abyss in chains. Peter and Jude say that the evil angels had been chained in Tarturus. They were loosed when Christ appeared.

thinker





well I guess its how you interpret sons of God - --  i take it as angels or heavenly beings  -so if it were they, then where else would they meet.


Psalm 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5 say that God never called an angel a son.

"To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son."'

The sons of God were the godly line of Seth. Only men are sons of God. Angels are ministering spirits to His sons.

thinker

"THE SONS OF GOD" IN GEN. 6:2, 4.

It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called "a son of God".  For that which is "born of the flesh is flesh".  God is spirit, and that which is "born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).  Hence Adam is called a "son of God" in Luke 3:38.  Those "in Christ" having "the new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2Cor. 5:17.  Eph. 2:10) can be, and are called "sons of God" (John 1:13.  Rom. 8:14, 15.  1John 3:1). (*1)

This is why angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament.  Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7.  Ps. 29:1; 89:6.  Dan. 3:25 (no art.). (*2)  We have no authority or right to take the expression in Gen. 6:2, 4 in any other sense.  Moreover, in Gen. 6:2 the Sept. renders it "angels".

Angels are called "spirits" (Ps. 104:4.  Heb. 1:7, 14), for spirits are created by God.

That there was a fall of the angels is certain from Jude 6.

The nature of their fall is clearly stated in the same verse.  They left their own oijkhthvrion (oiketerion).  This word occurs only in 2Cor. 5:2 and Jude 6, where it is used of the spiritual (or resurrection) body.

The nature of their sin is stated to be "in like manner" to that of the subsequent sins of Sodom and Gomorrha, Jude 7.

The time of their fall is given as having taken place "in the days of Noah" (1Pet. 3:20.  2Pet. 2:7), though there may have been a prior fall which caused the end of "the world that then was" (Gen. 1:1, 2.  2Pet. 3:6).

For this sin they are "reserved unto judgment", 2Pet. 2:4, and are "in prison", 1Pet. 3:19.

Their progeny, called Nephilim (translated "giants"), were monsters of iniquity; and, being superhuman in size and character, had to be destroyed (see Ap. 25).  This was the one and only object of the Flood.

Only Noah and his family had preserved their pedigree pure from Adam (Gen. 6:9, see note).  All the rest had become "corrupt" (shachath) destroyed [as Adamites].  the only remedy was to destroy it (de facto), as it had become destroyed (de jure).  (It is the same word in v. 17 as in vv. 11, 12.)  See further under Ap. 25 on the Nephilim.

This irruption of fallen angels was Satan's first attempt to prevent the coming of the Seed of the woman foretold in gen. 3:15.  If this could be accomplished, God's Word would have failed, and his own doom would be averted.

As soon as it was made known that the Seed of the woman was to come through ABRAHAM, there must have been another irruption, as recorded in Gen. 6:4, "and also after that" (i.e. after the days of Noah, more than 500 years after the first irruption).  The aim of the enemy was to occupy Canaan in advance of Abraham, and so to contest its occupation by his seed.  For, when Abraham entered Canaan, we read (Gen. 12:6) "the Canaanite was then (i.e. already) in the land."

In the same chapter (Gen. 12:10-20) we see Satan's next attempt to interfere with Abraham's seed, and frustrate the purpose of God that it should be in "Isaac".  This attempt was repeated in 20:1-18.

This great conflict may be seen throughout the Bible, and it forms a great and important subject of Biblical study.  In each case the human instrument had his own personal interest to serve, while Satan had his own great object in view.  Hence God had, in each case, to interfere and avert the evil and the danger, of which his servants and people were wholly ignorant.  The following assaults of the great Enemy stand out prominently :--

The destruction of the chosen family by famine, Gen. 50:20.

The destruction of the male line in Israel, Ex. 1:10, 15, &c.  Cp. Ex. 2:5.  Heb. 11:23.

The destruction of the whole nation in Pharaoh's pursuit, Ex. 14.

After David's line was singled out (2Sam. 7), that was the next selected for assault.  Satan's first assault was in the union of Jehoram and Athaliah by Jehoshaphat, notwithstanding 2Chron. 17:1.  Jehoram killed off all his brothers (2Chron. 21:4).

The Arabians slew all his children, except Ahaziah (2Chron. 21:17; 22:1).

When Ahaziah died, Athaliah killed "all the seed royal" (2Chron. 22:10).  the babe Joash alone was rescued; and, for six years, the faithfulness of Jehovah's word was at stake (2Chron. 23:3).

Hezekiah was childless, when a double assault was made by the King of Assyria and the King of Terrors (Isa. 36:1; 38:1).  God's faithfulness was appealed to and relied on (Ps. 136).

In Captivity, Haman was used to attempt the destruction of the whole nation (Est. 3:6, 12, 13.  Cp. 6:1).

Joseph's fear was worked on (Matt. 1:18-20).  Notwithstanding the fact that he was "a just man", and kept the Law, he did not wish to have Mary stoned to death (Deut. 24:1); hence Joseph determined to divorce her.  But God intervened :  "Fear not".

Herod sought the young Child's life (Matt. 2).

At the Temptation, "Cast Thyself down" was Satan's temptation.

At Nazareth, again (Luke 4), there was another attempt to cast Him down and destroy Him.

The two storms on the Lake were other attempts.

At length the cross was reached, and the sepulcher closed; the watch set; and the stone sealed.  But "God raised Him from the dead."  And now, like another Joash, He is seated and expecting (Heb. 10:12, 13), hidden in the house of God on high; and the members of "the one body" are hidden there "in Him" (Col. 3:1-3), like another Jehoshaba; and going forth to witness of His coming, like another Jehoiada (2Chron. 23:3).

The irruption of "the fallen angels" ("sons of God") was the first attempt; and was directed against the whole human race.

When Abraham was called, then he and his seed were attacked.

When David was enthroned, then the royal line were attacked.

And when "the Seed of the woman" Himself came, then the storm burst upon Him.



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(*1)  The word "offspring" in Acts 17:28 is quite different.  It is gevnos (genos), which means merely kin or kind, our genus as being originated by God.
(*2)  In Hos. 1:10, it is not beni-ha-Elohim, as here, but beni-el-chai.


thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #172 on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 - 11:38:07 »
Quote
Job's adversary was not the devil but a HUMAN accuser. The Hebrew "sawtawn" simply means "adversary. Job's accuser was a MAN. See replies 6 and ff on page 1 to this thread.


What human man could have sent fire and burned up sheep and servants or sent a great wind from across the wilderness to blow down a dwelling and kill all but one inside?

Regards,
AsAChild


Please see "sons of God = men or angels" thread with my replies on pages 5-6. I bumped it for you in the Theology Forum.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/'sons-of-god'-men-or-angels/60/

See also Leupold's commmentary on Genesis 6 on the sons of God and how their identification with angels is pagan in origin

http://www.abiblecommentary.com/leuoldscommentaryongenesis.pdf

God NEVER called an angel "My son" (Heb. 1:6). They are the servants of God's sons (Heb. 1:13-14).

thinker

EdwardGoodie

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #173 on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 - 12:22:08 »
It is interesting, this "sons of God" thing...

thethinker says it refers to the godly line of Seth.  I have no problem with that although I would probably call it Seth's covenant line with God (perhaps identical in meaning).

I also believe that this reasoning is a good indication that the Book of Job PREDATES the flood.  The phrase "sons of God" is not used again until the NT.

Gen_6:2  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen_6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Job_1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job_2:1  Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_38:7  When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?



Joh_1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Php_2:15  That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn_3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Offline asachild

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #174 on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 - 12:51:34 »
Quote
thinker
Please see "sons of God = men or angels" thread with my replies on pages 5-6. I bumped it for you in the Theology Forum.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/'sons-of-god'-men-or-angels/60/

See also Leupold's commmentary on Genesis 6 on the sons of God and how their identification with angels is pagan in origin

http://www.abiblecommentary.com/leuoldscommentaryongenesis.pdf

God NEVER called an angel "My son" (Heb. 1:6). They are the servants of God's sons (Heb. 1:13-14).


and

Quote
Quote thinker:
Job's adversary was not the devil but a HUMAN accuser. The Hebrew "sawtawn" simply means "adversary. Job's accuser was a MAN. See replies 6 and ff on page 1 to this thread.


My question still remains:

What human man could have sent fire and burned up sheep and servants or sent a great wind from across the wilderness to blow down a dwelling and kill all but one inside?

Regards,
AsAChild