Author Topic: Satan is in the lake of fire  (Read 22840 times)

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Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #175 on: Thu Jan 26, 2012 - 22:03:14 »
1Jn 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #176 on: Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 12:52:49 »
Quote
What human man could have sent fire and burned up sheep and servants or sent a great wind from across the wilderness to blow down a dwelling and kill all but one inside?

What human man could change the rod into a serpent, turn the river into blood, smite all Egypt's firstborn and part the red sea?

Satan had no such power EVER to do the things that Job's adversary did. Only a man whom God permitted and empowered could have done those things to Job.

Angels are NOT mentioned at all in the scene.

BTW, Job's adversary whether satan or a man is NOT included in the class designated as "the sons of God."

thinker


thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #177 on: Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 13:02:03 »
1Jn 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Exactly! And this includes translators. That we have so many translations and different readings just goes to show how unreliable men are when they handle the word of God.

God called Israel "My son" and he called David, Solomon and Jesus "My son." He said that the rulers of Israel were His sons and that we are His sons by adoption.

But God NEVER spoke to an angel saying "My son" and He NEVER spoke about an angel as a son.

Please show where God ever addressed an angel saying "My son" or where He ever spoke about an angel as His son. Is this too much to ask?


Hebrews 1:6:

"To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son'"?

thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #178 on: Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 13:50:42 »
no i can not show YOU where He ever said that in the KJV, however their are other translation that do say it. but you call them pagan. my commentaries that i have state that more then likely they are angles, but i will just ignore them.    So, cha-ching you win.

 ::cheerleader::

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #179 on: Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 17:51:39 »
no i can not show YOU where He ever said that in the KJV, however their are other translation that do say it. but you call them pagan. my commentaries that i have state that more then likely they are angles, but i will just ignore them.    So, cha-ching you win.

 ::cheerleader::

You do not understand my point. There are no narratives in any translation of the scripture where God is speaking to an angel saying, "You are my son."

Angels were created to serve God's sons (Hebrews 1:14). They are NOT sons themselves. They came to serve Jesus when He agonized in the garden. They served Jesus again when He arse from the dead. An angel came and served Peter when he was in prison.

Hebrews says that Christ died for sons and that angels help carry out salvation for sons (1:14-2:10). If angels were sons, then Christ died for them too which He did not.

Again the belief that angels are sons of God is pagan in origin and many of our "translations" have been influenced by it.

thinker




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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #179 on: Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 17:51:39 »



Offline Freya

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #180 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 02:20:33 »
There's so much evil in this world today though.  I mean, evil is nothing new.  There are clear examples of it throughout history and the devil doesn't need to be physically present for evil to be present.  But there is some seriously, insanely evil things happening out there right now that only the devil himself could be behind.  I would give some examples but I'd probably just be labelled a conspiracy theorist.

And what about the examples of God telling His people not to practice witchcraft throughout the old testament.  What effect would witchcraft have if Satan were bound? 

And what of the modern cases of possession?

And doesn't the binding of Satan happen at the same time as the 1000-year reign of Christ as noted in Revelation 20?  If Christ had not yet fulfilled prophecy at the time you claim the devil was bound (right after the fall in Eden), how does your theory fit in with what is said in Revelation 20?

Blessings

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #181 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:04:06 »
There's so much evil in this world today though.  I mean, evil is nothing new.  There are clear examples of it throughout history and the devil doesn't need to be physically present for evil to be present.  But there is some seriously, insanely evil things happening out there right now that only the devil himself could be behind.  I would give some examples but I'd probably just be labelled a conspiracy theorist.

And what about the examples of God telling His people not to practice witchcraft throughout the old testament.  What effect would witchcraft have if Satan were bound? 

And what of the modern cases of possession?

And doesn't the binding of Satan happen at the same time as the 1000-year reign of Christ as noted in Revelation 20?  If Christ had not yet fulfilled prophecy at the time you claim the devil was bound (right after the fall in Eden), how does your theory fit in with what is said in Revelation 20?

Blessings

Paul said that witchcraft was a work of the flesh (Galatians 5). The witch of Endor by her soothsaying raised up Samuel from the dead.

If you say that she did it by the power of satan, then the resurrection of Jesus was no big deal for God did no more than what satan can do. So if she did not raise up Samuel by satan's power, then by whose power did she raise up Samuel?

ALL powers come from God! Satan is in the lake of fire!

thinker

Offline Freya

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #182 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:23:15 »
But what about my last question?  ???
You claim that the 1000-year binding of Satan occurred right after the fall in Eden.  Revelation 20 makes it clear that not only did the binding of Satan occur at the same time as the reign of Christ, but that prior to the 1000 years, the mark of the beast had already been present and more importantly, Christ had fulfilled the prophecies.


Revelation 20:4 (NASB)

"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,"


If the 1000-year binding of Satan began right after the fall in Eden as you claim, how was the mark of the beast (who was given his power from the dragon) present during that time?  And how were there people who had given testimony of Jesus before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies?  

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #183 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:28:47 »
But what about my last question?  ???


Revelation 20:4 (NASB)

"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,"


If the 1000-year binding of Satan began right after the fall in Eden, how was the mark of the beast (who was given his power from the dragon) present during that time?  And how were there people who had given testimony of Jesus before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies? 

Please read the opening post to this thread and the posts which follow. Your questions have been answered already. Just read and pick something to talk about.

Thanks,

thinker

Offline Freya

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #184 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:34:38 »
But what about my last question?  ???


Revelation 20:4 (NASB)

"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,"


If the 1000-year binding of Satan began right after the fall in Eden, how was the mark of the beast (who was given his power from the dragon) present during that time?  And how were there people who had given testimony of Jesus before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies?  

Please read the opening post to this thread and the posts which follow. Your questions have been answered already. Just read and pick something to talk about.

Thanks,

thinker

I have read the first post and I realize that you are claiming that Revelation 20 took place back in time, but what I'm wondering is how it's possible for Satan to have been bound during the Old Testament period when Revelation 20 makes it clear that there were people who had given testimony of Jesus before the 1000 years.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #185 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:42:56 »
But what about my last question?  ???


Revelation 20:4 (NASB)

"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,"


If the 1000-year binding of Satan began right after the fall in Eden, how was the mark of the beast (who was given his power from the dragon) present during that time?  And how were there people who had given testimony of Jesus before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies?  

Please read the opening post to this thread and the posts which follow. Your questions have been answered already. Just read and pick something to talk about.

Thanks,

thinker

I have read the first post and I realize that you are claiming that Revelation 20 took place back in time, but what I'm wondering is how it's possible for Satan to have been bound during the Old Testament period when Revelation 20 makes it clear that there were people who had given testimony of Jesus before the 1000 years.

So you would not accept that Moses suffered for Christ with the people of God (Heb. 11:25)?

thinker

Offline Freya

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #186 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:47:56 »
But what about my last question?  ???


Revelation 20:4 (NASB)

"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Revelation 20:7 (NASB)

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,"


If the 1000-year binding of Satan began right after the fall in Eden, how was the mark of the beast (who was given his power from the dragon) present during that time?  And how were there people who had given testimony of Jesus before Jesus fulfilled the prophecies?  

Please read the opening post to this thread and the posts which follow. Your questions have been answered already. Just read and pick something to talk about.

Thanks,

thinker

I have read the first post and I realize that you are claiming that Revelation 20 took place back in time, but what I'm wondering is how it's possible for Satan to have been bound during the Old Testament period when Revelation 20 makes it clear that there were people who had given testimony of Jesus before the 1000 years.

So you would not accept that Moses suffered for Christ with the people of God (Heb. 11:25)?

thinker

But in using that as an example, are you saying that Satan was bound AFTER the time of Moses?

I guess a more important question in this matter is do you believe the 1000-year binding Satan happens in parallel with the 1000-year reign of Christ?

raggthyme

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #187 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 13:51:25 »


I have read the first post and I realize that you are claiming that Revelation 20 took place back in time, but what I'm wondering is how it's possible for Satan to have been bound during the Old Testament period when Revelation 20 makes it clear that there were people who had given testimony of Jesus before the 1000 years.

Hi Freya!

I am not necessarily sure myself about the 1000 years being during that time. But not for the same reason you are questioning it. People had the testimony of Jesus prior to the incarnation, as all these having died in faith saw the promises afar off and awaited the fulfillment of them. Jesus said, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. It's all ultimately pointing to Him. My question for thinker was this:

Who are the "they" who lived and reigned with Christ during the thousand years, seeing that those who died prior to the cross went to hades, awaiting the resurrection? I am willing to accept this view if I can get a sufficient, scriptural answer to this. It's been bugging me.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #188 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 14:10:45 »
freya said:
Quote
But in using that as an example, are you saying that Satan was bound AFTER the time of Moses?

I guess a more important question in this matter is do you believe the 1000-year binding Satan happens in parallel with the 1000-year reign of Christ?

Peter and Jude said that the evil angels had been bound in chains in Tarturus. Tarturus was the abyss. They were loosed when Christ appeared and then were judged and thrown into the lake of fire at Christ's second coming in ad70.

The thousand year binding WAS parallel with the reign of Christ. Paul said that at Christ's second coming Christ's reign ends and He becomes a subject Himself (1 Cor. 15:26-28).

How can Christ's reign begin when He comes when Paul said it ends when he comes?

thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #189 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 15:08:26 »
freya said:
Quote
But in using that as an example, are you saying that Satan was bound AFTER the time of Moses?

I guess a more important question in this matter is do you believe the 1000-year binding Satan happens in parallel with the 1000-year reign of Christ?

Peter and Jude said that the evil angels had been bound in chains in Tarturus. Tarturus was the abyss. They were loosed when Christ appeared and then were judged and thrown into the lake of fire at Christ's second coming in ad70.

The thousand year binding WAS parallel with the reign of Christ. Paul said that at Christ's second coming Christ's reign ends and He becomes a subject Himself (1 Cor. 15:26-28).

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton

How can Christ's reign begin when He comes when Paul said it ends when he comes?

thinker

raggthyme

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #190 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 15:38:13 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile:: 

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #191 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 16:46:27 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile:: 

ok thanks,
isnt there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton

raggthyme

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #192 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 17:13:41 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile:: 

ok thanks,
isnt there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #193 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 18:06:16 »
fenton said:
Quote
so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton

See all my posts on this thread. Satan was loosed around the time Jesus appeared. This was the "little season." They were near the end of the "little season" for Jesus said, "NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out."

According to the Revelation the judgment of the [Jewish] world and of satan is at the end of the "little season." Therefore, they were near the end of the "little season."

thinker

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #194 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 18:41:29 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile:: 

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #195 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 19:10:12 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile::  

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth


Sounds more to me that Jesus saved her from the abuse of some drugs like cannibas, cocaine or amphetamines. The word for "sorcery" in Galatians 5 refers to these kinds of substances. Or maybe He saved her from neurocognitive deficits of some kind. I rejoice that Jesus saved her despite that many gullible christians here just assume that it's demons even though this is not possible. It is not possible because Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Therefore, the girl was healed and saved by Jesus from either substance abuse or neurological problems.

thinker

Lehigh

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #196 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 19:17:18 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile:: 

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth


The girl was calm because she was spiritually healed. Christ heals minds!

Did the demons come out of her and talk to you? And did they go find a herd of pigs and go drown themselves?

That would convince me if there were real demons indwelling a person. Otherwise, all it is is a great healing of a mental illness. Which is why some are gifted enough to believe God's power to heal others of their demons of the mind.


Lehigh

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #197 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 19:18:57 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile::  

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth


Sounds more to me that Jesus saved her from the abuse of some drugs like cannibas, cocaine or amphetamines. The word for "sorcery" in Galatians 5 refers to these kinds of substances. Or maybe He saved her from neurocognitive deficits of some kind. I rejoice that Jesus saved her despite that many gullible christians here just assume that it's demons even though this is not possible. It is not possible because Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Therefore, the girl was healed and saved by Jesus from either substance abuse or neurological problems.

thinker

I was thinking along the same lines thinker!  ::cheers::

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #198 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 19:19:16 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile::  

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth


Sounds more to me that Jesus saved her from the abuse of some drugs like cannibas, cocaine or amphetamines. The word for "sorcery" in Galatians 5 refers to these kinds of substances. Or maybe He saved her from neurocognitive deficits of some kind. I rejoice that Jesus saved her despite that many gullible christians here just assume that it's demons even though this is not possible. It is not possible because Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Therefore, the girl was healed and saved by Jesus from either substance abuse or neurological problems.

thinker

ok

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #199 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 19:20:07 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile:: 

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth


The girl was calm because she was spiritually healed. Christ heals minds!

Did the demons come out of her and talk to you? And did they go find a herd of pigs and go drown themselves?

That would convince me if there were real demons indwelling a person. Otherwise, all it is is a great healing of a mental illness. Which is why some are gifted enough to believe God's power to heal others of their demons of the mind.




ok

Offline fenton

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #200 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 19:23:22 »

so are you saying that satan was bound while Jesus was here on earth?
fenton


In the earlier posts of this thread it seems that he refers to the "little season" of Satan's loosing as including the time Jesus walked the earth, up until 70ad. So no, Satan was not bound while Jesus was on earth, that's why we see so much Satanic activity (casting out of demons and such) during that generation.

I may be mistaking, but that's what I've gathered from reading these posts.  ::smile::  

OK thanks,
isn't there still demonic activity today? I believe there is, if not more than back then! jmo
fenton


I haven't seen it myself, but there are people who have been missionaries in places like Haiti who would agree with you. I don't know because I haven't seen it for myself. Maybe those folks have mental illnesses or drug-induced psychosis etc. I don't know.

But I can say for myself, being that I came out of a life of psychedelic drug abuse, that I felt like I was demonically possessed. But looking back I believe that I was suffering from the consequences of having continuously poisoned myself, and from the trauma of all those bad "trips."

The moment I asked Jesus Christ to save me He healed me, I no longer heard the voices or felt the insanity. So all this to say, maybe it's something other than demons that people are experiencing.

could be, but i believe in it, Ive seen it
80lb girl biting , kicking, screaming and throwing 2 very big deacons around, once they got the demon to come out she was SO totally different, the ladies of the church didn't leave her alone for one minute until they could talk to her and help her understand what had happened,  then she gave her life to Christ.  Don't know what happened to her after discipleship camp was over, but it was an eye opening experience. that was the worst that i have seen. being a Christan in my line of work i have seen some really weird stuff.
  I have really severe headaches, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, well when i start praying and claiming all the scriptures that i can remember, i start getting sick and throwing up, within minutes of throwing up the HA subsides! i know ill catch all kinds of you know what for posting this, but it is the honest truth


Sounds more to me that Jesus saved her from the abuse of some drugs like cannibas, cocaine or amphetamines. The word for "sorcery" in Galatians 5 refers to these kinds of substances. Or maybe He saved her from neurocognitive deficits of some kind. I rejoice that Jesus saved her despite that many gullible christians here just assume that it's demons even though this is not possible. It is not possible because Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Therefore, the girl was healed and saved by Jesus from either substance abuse or neurological problems.

thinker

I was thinking along the same lines thinker!  ::cheers::


great minds think alike   ::lookaround::

daq

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #201 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 20:00:11 »
great minds think alike   ::lookaround::

Yes unfortunately they do fenton ...

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


And don't rile 'em up too much cuz they's probly five more!  ::crackup::

Offline Grapesicle

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #202 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 20:39:48 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle



daq

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #203 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 21:02:35 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle

Amen, and the same modern "psychologists" that tell people its just "cognative this" or "neuro psychosis that" are the same psychotic buffoons who teach people that the "inner spirit-man self" is "perfect and beautiful" and that people should listen to their "inner voice". The same ones are they who teach and believe that mankind is one giant "organic amoeba village" so that they are justified when "the brains" decide to kill the "cancerous" cells that might infect the rest of the "body" of mankind. In effect man has perverted the Scripture so much so that he does not even believe it is possible for himself to be deceived. It is all about control: and if there is a SPIRIT realm and a CREATOR then man is nothing more than PROPERTY either way, (ye are not your own but bought with a price).  ::smile::

Lehigh

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #204 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 21:03:59 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle




There's only one "bottom line" and it's God's word:

“Behold, I have created the blacksmith
Who blows the coals in the fire,
Who brings forth an instrument for his work;
And I have created the spoiler to destroy.
17 No weapon formed against you shall prosper,
And every tongue which rises against you in judgment
You shall condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
And their righteousness is from Me,

raggthyme

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #205 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 21:15:48 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle




I can also tell you that when I was taking certain psychedelics with my husband before I was a believer we were able to read each others minds. Totally freaked us out! I know that sounds ridiculous but I have spoken with others who say they sat in a car full of people and carried on a conversation mentally. Folks, demons are not the only reason people have strange and supernatural experiences. When you open up those places in the mind that aren't meant to be opened all sorts of bizarre things can happen. I never had someone exorcise a demon from me either. So it was the drugs in my case. That's all I'm saying... not to detract from your experience.

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #206 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 21:18:39 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle

Amen, and the same modern "psychologists" that tell people its just "cognative this" or "neuro psychosis that" are the same psychotic buffoons who teach people that the "inner spirit-man self" is "perfect and beautiful" and that people should listen to their "inner voice". The same ones are they who teach and believe that mankind is one giant "organic amoeba village" so that they are justified when "the brains" decide to kill the "cancerous" cells that might infect the rest of the "body" of mankind. In effect man has perverted the Scripture so much so that he does not even believe it is possible for himself to be deceived. It is all about control: and if there is a SPIRIT realm and a CREATOR then man is nothing more than PROPERTY either way, (ye are not your own but bought with a price).  ::smile::

daq,

John said that Christ came to DESTROY the works of the devil. Did He fail?

thinker

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #207 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 21:26:40 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle




John said that Christ came to DESTROY the works of the devil. Did Christ fail?

It is a MEDICAL fact that medication and psycho therapy have cured what you call "demon possession." My wife has worked at a Christian counseling center for 25 years and has seen a lot of the things you have seen and can testify that proper biblical counseling and medications cure these things. Sometimes Christ cures it miraculously in salvation. But if it can be cured gradually with meds and therappy which is has, then it cannot be demon possession.

Christ DESTROYED the works of the devil. He has NOTHING to do humanity today. He has power over no one.

Satan is in the lake of fire!


thinker
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 21:46:24 by thethinker »

daq

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #208 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 12:19:48 »
I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle

John said that Christ came to DESTROY the works of the devil. Did Christ fail?

It is a MEDICAL fact that medication and psycho therapy have cured what you call "demon possession." My wife has worked at a Christian counseling center for 25 years and has seen a lot of the things you have seen and can testify that proper biblical counseling and medications cure these things. Sometimes Christ cures it miraculously in salvation. But if it can be cured gradually with meds and therappy which is has, then it cannot be demon possession.

Christ DESTROYED the works of the devil. He has NOTHING to do humanity today. He has power over no one.

Satan is in the lake of fire!


thinker

I have personally encountered demon possessed people; people who knew my name and things about me that were impossible for them to know. These were people whom I've never met and said things about me only I knew. They also manifested supernatural abilities that will knock the socks off the people here who deny Satan and his fallen angelic army. Bottom line is this...if you believe that Satan and his demons are not doing their dirty deeds in this world TODAY, then you are already DECEIVED and the serpent of old has blinded your mind and have indoctrinated you with lies.

In Christ,
Grapesicle

Amen, and the same modern "psychologists" that tell people its just "cognative this" or "neuro psychosis that" are the same psychotic buffoons who teach people that the "inner spirit-man self" is "perfect and beautiful" and that people should listen to their "inner voice". The same ones are they who teach and believe that mankind is one giant "organic amoeba village" so that they are justified when "the brains" decide to kill the "cancerous" cells that might infect the rest of the "body" of mankind. In effect man has perverted the Scripture so much so that he does not even believe it is possible for himself to be deceived. It is all about control: and if there is a SPIRIT realm and a CREATOR then man is nothing more than PROPERTY either way, (ye are not your own but bought with a price).  ::smile::

daq,

John said that Christ came to DESTROY the works of the devil. Did He fail?

thinker

It really comes down to whether deep inside one believes that Christ was Deity in the flesh, or not, during his physical ministry. If he was Deity in the flesh then his words are timeless, and outside of our time domain constraints, and so his words would then apply to all generations of all time. And if he was Deity in the flesh before the Cross then the statements made in the Gospel accounts theoretically do not become relevant in us until the first time we read them; for that is when the seed of the Word is sown to us. Also the words of Christ reverberate like "seven thunders which utter their voices" and this is one of the reasons why we, as believers, must continue in our discipleship because each time we understand something new it reverberates throughout ALL of our doctrine like a mild quaking of the earth; and ALL of our doctrine must be unified into one complete, coherent, unblemished understanding. This is the beauty of the Book of the Sevenfold Revelation of Yeshua because it is the final doctrinal standard by which all of the preceding doctrines may be inspected and corrected. This also is why the Book of the Revelation is full of statements combined from the whole of the Scripture deposit of wealth and knowledge in the Word. And this is why the Book of the Revelation is so completely visionary and supernal in its nature yet states; "blessed are those who KEEP THE SAYINGS of this book" for it is the final "index key" sort of speak.

Yet even if one does not truly believe deep inside that Yeshua was Deity incarnate then there is also the following information which also witnesses to the same truth: Yeshua states that he is "IN HEAVEN" while he walked the earth in his physical body. If one believes this statement then there is only one reason why this may be found to be true; and that is because the Spirit of the Father Theou rested upon him from the time of his baptism. And if the Spirit of YHWH rested upon him, and if indeed he was IN HEAVEN during his physical ministry, then again his words and doctrine from the Gospel accounts are OUTSIDE OF TIME.

Matthew 3:16 KJV
16. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God (Pneuma tou Theou) descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

John 10:30 KJV
30. I and my Father are one.

John 14:8-9 KJV
8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9. Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 3:12-13 KJV
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Therefore, even if one does not believe that Yeshua was in fact Deity in the flesh; then that one should take heed to the fact that the Spirit of the Theou rested upon Yeshua the Son. And, if so, then his words are ETERNAL, and again, outside of TIME. How then does Yeshua cast out devils from a person who was not yet born? such as all of us here in the present? For this is one of the duties of the High Priest:

Leviticus 16:10-14 RSV
10. but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.
11. "Aaron shall present the bull as a sin offering for himself, and shall make atonement for himself and for his house; he shall kill the bull as a sin offering for himself.
12. And he shall take a censer full of coals of fire from the altar before the Lord, and two handfuls of sweet incense beaten small; and he shall bring it within the veil
13. and put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat which is upon the testimony, lest he die;
14. and he shall take some of the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it with his finger on the front of the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle the blood with his finger seven times.


The sprinkling of the blood of Atonement is performed by the FINGER of the High Priest in the Great Day of Atonement and cleansing of the holy-holies and secondary sanctuary or holy place. Who and what is the secondary sanctuary or "tent of the meeting" place? It is the saints and the people of YHWH; the "tent of the mow`ed" or "meeting place" resides with us in the midst of our impurities and uncleanness.

Leviticus 16:15-16 KJV
15. "Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood within the veil, and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, sprinkling it upon the mercy seat and before the mercy seat;  
16. thus he shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel, and because of their transgressions, all their sins; and so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which abides with them in the midst of their uncleannesses.

Luke 11:18-20 KJV
18. If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20. But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.


No doubt the opening statement of Luke 11:20 concerns the High Priest, the very Finger of YHWH, and the Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement, ceremonies and cleansing of the entire sanctuary. Therefore what it means is that THIS IS WHEN THE KINGDOM OF THE THEOU HAS COME UPON YOU! For this is the duty only of the High Priest and Yeshua is our High Priest according to the eternal order Melchizedek.

If one believes that Satan was cast out all at once, at a single point in time nearly two thousand years ago; then that one has simply concocted for himself another one of the many forms of the "free ride" without allowing himself true accountability to the Scripture. This is another problem with the "Full Preterist" teaching on "audience relevance" because it basically accomplishes the same outcome whether one realizes it or not; which outcome is an allegorical "escape door" from personal accountability to certain passages of Scripture.

Hebrews 7:17-25 KJV
17. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness (flesh) and unprofitableness thereof.
19. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21. (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22. By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24. But this man, (Christ) because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.


So the Isaiah 28 "Covenant with Death" was "disannulled" just as stated in Isaiah 28 because those priests were flesh mortals, and mere men, which kept "waxing old", dying, "decaying", and constantly needing replacement when they waxed old, died, and decayed away. This is true because the writer states that the Covenant of the old priesthood was NOT BY AN OATH. Yet now we have BY SWORN OATH an Eternal High Priest in Christ Yeshua who lives forevermore to make intercession for anyone who comes to him by faith. Therefore if Satan was cast out long before anyone here was born into the world then WHY SHOULD ANYONE HERE NEED A HIGH PRIEST?

Therefore Satan is cast out ...
But to each in his appointed times ...


Luke 10:17-18 KJV
17. And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Paraphrased to the disciples: "Yes, I know... I saw it: I was there with you!"...
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 14:05:11 by daq »

thethinker

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Re: Satan is in the lake of fire
« Reply #209 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 17:00:55 »
daq,

Your post above makes about as much sense as this



thinker

 ::smile::