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Offline dpr

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Shamed
« on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 12:58:21 »
I am truly ashamed to associate on this particular forum, because it appears that it is mainly a PRETERIST type forum, and Preterism is a doctrine of the devil as far as I'm concerned.

So for the few here that might NOT be Preterists...

I am non-denominational, though I was raised in a mainstream Protestant Church.

I believe in a future post-tribulational literal, physical return of my Lord Jesus, and gathering of His Church to go to Jerusalem on earth to reign over ALL nations. I believe this because it is actually what is written in God's Word.

I believe God's Word about certain events to occur on that day of Christ's return on the "day of the Lord", with God's consuming fire burning man's works off the surface of this earth, and ushering all into His future Millennium reign with His elect with "a rod of iron". Thus I believe His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 will be literal, and is still future, as Rev.20 is pointing to as written.

I believe today Christ's Kingdom is manifest on earth ONLY in the spiritual sense, and not yet in the literal physical sense, but it will be manifest literally, on earth, with His future 2nd coming, which is also as written.

I do NOT believe the 'asleep' saints are literally asleep in the ground, but that their spirit is with Christ right now, waiting to return with Him on the last day of this world at the resurrection, as written in 1 Thessalonians 4.

I am not a Futurist, not a Historicist, nor a Preterist, nor an Idealist, nor a Dispensationalist. Those who adhere to those schools of thought find it difficult to categorize me, simply because it shows they are heeding doctrines of men more than the actual written Word of God.


THE MOST DANGEROUS ASPECT OF PRETERISM (partial):

God's Word prophesies of a coming Antichrist/false-Messiah to Jerusalem for the end, prior to Christ's 2nd coming. This is not a doctrine of men, it is the written Word of God (Matthew 24:23-26; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 6 thru 16; Daniel 8, 9, 11, 12).

In Matthew 24:23-26, Lord Jesus is warning that this particular pseudo-Messiah will work great signs and wonders on earth so deceptive, that IF it were possible, even His very elect would be deceived. That Scripture is about a singular false-Messiah, even though the KJV translators rendered Greek pseudochristos plural as "false Christs". Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance rendered the Greek as "a spurious Messiah". It's because Greek pseudo means false, and Greek christos is singular for Christ.

Just what level of miracle working would it take to deceive Christ's very elect? That's almost the level of wonders that coming false-Messiah is going to do in Jerusalem, setting himself up as God in a rebuilt temple like Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thessalonians 2. The consolation is that our Lord Jesus has 'sealed' His elect for the end, and they CANNOT be deceived by that false-Messiah. Yet that level of deception points to the majority of the world being deceived into believing that false one is God having come to earth.

HOW are the Preterist doctors preparing the deceived to accept that coming false-Messiah instead of waiting for Christ's true coming afterwards?

Firstly, the idea that today Christ's Kingdom has already come on earth, even while wickedness on earth is growing stronger, is one way. And when all wars end, which is one of the Signs of the coming tribulation Jesus warned about, which is also when the coming false-Messiah will show up offering peace and prosperity to all the world, those Preterists will already be primed to believe that is The Christ. But it won't be. This is today's purpose behind those driving for a "one-world government" over all peoples and nations today.

Those of us in Christ who know better, because we keep His Word, won't fall for their trap. We know any type of one-world government setup on this earth prior to Christ's true coming, will be false. So the Preterists today who keep trying to convince us that Christ's Kingdom is already here today, can keep their blinders on, and worship that coming false-Messiah, and then dwell in shame once Jesus returns to destroy that false one afterwards.

Something even worse will happen with their deception, and they won't realize it until it's too late. That coming false-Messiah is going to be Lucifer himself, here on earth, in person, working those great signs and wonders to deceive the whole world with. The very first sin was Lucifer's rebellion in the old world when he coveted God's throne. That is what this coming false-Messiah is going to do, and that role at the very end of this world is reserved for Lucifer. That is who the secret societies of the occult worship, and  who they desire for the whole... world to worship. It is their plan to institute that worship over all nations at the end of this present world. They have been working towards it for centuries.

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Shamed
« on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 12:58:21 »

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #1 on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 14:07:46 »
dpr,

It is just a phase.

The prets come and they go. And once gone most stay gone.

This forum is not a strong preterist forum. No more then any other specific belief that from time to time will make the rounds.

If you will look at the many pret threads swirling around at this moment you will see there are several that were revived from many,many years ago. All of which were started and contributed to by many members no longer around.

Don't sweat it.

As you said, " the idea that today Christ's Kingdom has already come on earth, even while wickedness on earth is growing stronger  " is mind blowing.

I have commented on this in many of their threads.

I would have to say that if the prets are correct and we now are forced to live among the dregs of humanity getting worse and worse every day then there is
something wrong with Christianity and more so with the inerrant word of God called the bible. And we know that is not so.

The prets have blinders on. And they are afraid to admit they might be wrong.

Anyway, Soon there will be other subjects raising their heads. Maybe even a revival of a good old baptism saves debate.

Just hang in there.

And FYI... I am a mainline protestant member.... but I study and learn ON MY OWN.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #2 on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 15:06:58 »
Ummm, dpr, it IS called a PRETERIST forum, you know.  What did you expect to find here?  If you are ashamed to fellowship here, there is plenty other space and ongoing themes to which you can contribute without feeling uncomfortable.

Rella, I hate to disappoint you, but my “phase” has kept me studying Preterist teaching for almost 8 years now, without my interest lapsing.   Preterism isn’t going to evaporate any time soon.  There’s too much scripture in sync with it.   

And I’m totally comfortable on this website, with no plans to exit in a huff.  I LIKE the mixed bag of folks that frequent the forums. 

For example, I’ve got to have my daily dose of Rella and Rush to keep me up to speed on the wacky things going on in the world. 
TC’s snarky one liners are better than any TV show. 
And Jarrod’s wry sense of humor just kills me.  He can pack more meaning into one sentence than I can in a whole page of comment.
And God bless the feisty, pet-loving mommydi’s of this world. 
And the warrior spirit of the RB’s who aren’t afraid to stick their neck out for scripture doctrine, as best they know it. 
And the world needs the beauty that the Barbarian posters are able to capture and create for us to share. 
And the ever-practical wisdom from Jaime, learned from the tough school of hard knocks. 

You guys are a great online “family”.  Appreciate every one of you, though I haven’t time to name you all.

Offline robycop3

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #3 on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 16:40:38 »
  I'm not exactly a preterist !

  I have repeatedly asked, on many sites, for a pret to present HISTORICAL PROOF that the events they SAY have occurred, HAVE already occurred, & so far they're batting ZERO. They try to cover their lack of proof by adding new meanings to certain Scriptures, and/or trying to re-write history.

  I've had a pleasant, rancor-free dialogue with "# Resurrections" here, but he, too, has failed to provide any HISTORICAL PROOF. Why ? There simply ISN'T ANY !

 Preterism is just another man-made false doctrine.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #4 on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 16:57:49 »
Hi robycop3,

Yes, I’ve given such proof - with dates, scripture, and other concrete evidence -  but you just don’t like it.  I will continue to supply further recorded historical evidence as I have time, but I really don’t expect you to change your mind.  I do this for any others that are quietly thinking these things over, and honestly have questions as to how these prophesies could have ever happened already. 

You have already said that you only ask “SARCASTICALLY” for proof, knowing ahead of time that you have no intention of believing it, even if it is supplied.  That’s ok. I get sarcasm at home thrown at me too, so I’m used to it and am not offended.

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #4 on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 16:57:49 »



Offline soterion

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #5 on: Fri May 22, 2020 - 18:54:46 »
I believe in a future post-tribulational literal, physical return of my Lord Jesus, and gathering of His Church to go to Jerusalem on earth to reign over ALL nations. I believe this because it is actually what is written in God's Word.

I believe God's Word about certain events to occur on that day of Christ's return on the "day of the Lord", with God's consuming fire burning man's works off the surface of this earth, and ushering all into His future Millennium reign with His elect with "a rod of iron". Thus I believe His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 will be literal, and is still future, as Rev.20 is pointing to as written.

I believe today Christ's Kingdom is manifest on earth ONLY in the spiritual sense, and not yet in the literal physical sense, but it will be manifest literally, on earth, with His future 2nd coming, which is also as written.

I do NOT believe the 'asleep' saints are literally asleep in the ground, but that their spirit is with Christ right now, waiting to return with Him on the last day of this world at the resurrection, as written in 1 Thessalonians 4.

I am not a Futurist, not a Historicist, nor a Preterist, nor an Idealist, nor a Dispensationalist. Those who adhere to those schools of thought find it difficult to categorize me, simply because it shows they are heeding doctrines of men more than the actual written Word of God.

You believe these things, not because they are actually what are written in God's Word, but because that is how you interpret various passages in God's Word. Everybody, no matter the belief, can claim to have God's Word to back them up.

The rest of your post reads like an ego trip. ::sarcasm::

Offline Alan

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #6 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 05:42:17 »
Are we discussing the specific Preterist Boards here that are part of this forum or the forum as a whole?

The only reason I ever see any topics in the Preterist boards is to make sure everyone is playing nice, otherwise I would never see them.

If you find something disturbing, move on, there are plenty of other boards here to have meaningful discussion in.

BTW, water baptism IS a part of salvation  rofl rofl rofl

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #7 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 06:26:19 »
I am not a Futurist, not a Historicist, nor a Preterist, nor an Idealist, nor a Dispensationalist. Those who adhere to those schools of thought find it difficult to categorize me, simply because it shows they are heeding doctrines of men more than the actual written Word of God.
Sir, I do not know enough about you to even put you into a school of thoughts concerning eschatology~now by your own confession you claim to be of the school of "Protestant Huguenot" I have read a little on them: https://books.google.com/books?id=BEDVDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA542&lpg=PA542&dq=protestant+huguenots+on+eschatology&source=bl&ots=M8Hca11myV&sig=ACfU3U0D1uVHF9ZwCIq9G0ft-wcdkOIhUg&hl=en& so, you are more than welcome to give us a "Biblical timeline" of your understanding on eschatology and I would love to read it. In the meantime I'll see if I could do the same by using a chart.   

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #8 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 06:57:14 »
Are we discussing the specific Preterist Boards here that are part of this forum or the forum as a whole?

The only reason I ever see any topics in the Preterist boards is to make sure everyone is playing nice, otherwise I would never see them.

If you find something disturbing, move on, there are plenty of other boards here to have meaningful discussion in.

BTW, water baptism IS a part of salvation  rofl rofl rofl

In dpr's defense.... if you are not totally familiar with how things are set up it can be confusing when you click on a subject and see what the posting is about but there is no where in the actual individual thread that tells you what forum it is.

Personally I do not click on any specific forum to see what is there other then Political, which is bookmarked. ::whistle::

I go by subject matter or the specific title.  If interesting I look, if not I move on.

But you are right... there are many forums from which to choose.

dpr, Click on the home button and start down the list, or scroll to the bottom of the page and see the most recent posts
which tells you which forums they are in.

As to your comment Alan... about the baptism....I may start another thread... or not... for this.

But something I do not recall reading from the Preterist members....so I will ask it right here.

I do not recall reading where their specific beliefs on Baptism saves lies.

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #9 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 07:35:04 »
BTW, water baptism IS a part of salvation
Water Baptism scriptures were "only" for "Pre" 70 A. D., just ask any Preterist~because after 70 A.D. there's really nothing left for us to believe for Christians thereafter to heed if we are to listen to them.
Quote from:  Alan on: Today at 05:42:17
BTW, water baptism IS a part of salvation
I can make this forum come alive by starting a thread on water baptism. There IS a salvation that comes through water baptism, just not in a legal sense~but practical only....salvation from sin and condemnation is only through the obedience and righteousness of Christ  which he SECURED for his people by himself.  ::peeking::
« Last Edit: Sat May 23, 2020 - 07:38:14 by RB »

Offline Alan

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #10 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 08:00:09 »
In dpr's defense.... if you are not totally familiar with how things are set up it can be confusing when you click on a subject and see what the posting is about but there is no where in the actual individual thread that tells you what forum it is.

Personally I do not click on any specific forum to see what is there other then Political, which is bookmarked. ::whistle::

I go by subject matter or the specific title.  If interesting I look, if not I move on.

But you are right... there are many forums from which to choose.

dpr, Click on the home button and start down the list, or scroll to the bottom of the page and see the most recent posts
which tells you which forums they are in.




Kind of like the JW or Catholic boards, most of the content is argumentative against the specific boards. I no longer have any interest in proving people wrong or pointing out their errors, Lord knows I have enough of them myself.  ::smile::

Offline Alan

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #11 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 08:01:01 »
Water Baptism scriptures were "only" for "Pre" 70 A. D., just ask any Preterist~because after 70 A.D. there's really nothing left for us to believe for Christians thereafter to heed if we are to listen to them.I can make this forum come alive by starting a thread on water baptism. There IS a salvation that comes through water baptism, just not in a legal sense~but practical only....salvation from sin and condemnation is only through the obedience and righteousness of Christ  which he SECURED for his people by himself.  ::peeking::


I know you know I was trolling  ::crackup::

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #12 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 08:29:20 »

Kind of like the JW or Catholic boards, most of the content is argumentative against the specific boards. I no longer have any interest in proving people wrong or pointing out their errors, Lord knows I have enough of them myself.  ::smile::

First.

NO one here will ever change their mind in their beliefs.

As to the sub-boards.... I only get to them by way of the listing at the bottom of the home page.

I simply am unable to move on when there is a glaring comment that just begs for an opposing opinion. I do get a kick out of how many are able to take a fact as it is written and say this means this or that..  ie 2 plus 2 is not four, because if it is rabbits it will mean 24. And it is rabbits  cause 47 translators used this meaning from grammatical errancy or the oft unidentifiable letter such as an a for an e .... and the 37 who said it was 4 had to be wrong cause their translation said it was not indicating rabbits had to be simply wrong. 

Not to mention the mere fact that this virus expletive has even the most posting posters secreted away and that there just is little subject matter.

Even politics is dead.




Online RB

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #13 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 06:33:52 »
First.

NO one here will ever change their mind in their beliefs.
Dear lady, I have many times from when I first started out in my Christian faith and not just a little, but an overhaul of just about every doctrine that I was first taught from the "fundamental (got to add this) "INDEPENDENCE" Baptist churches" here on the very buckle of the so-called Bible belt of the world.

Without question, some very good decent folks who in their " OWN " system fear God being overly righteous through "man-made doctrines"~ no smoking, drinking, a few that taught no makeup, no shorts, no pants on women, cut your hair a certain way, no beards on men, the list is endless. These were many of their practical doctrines on what constitutes living a godly life.

On theology side~I've changed on just about every single doctrine that I was first taught in my first three years or so. This list is a mile long and that's not kidding.

Free-will, Well, let's cut through the muster shall we: their own system of Soteriology I was converted from to where I now stand. Their WHOLE system of eschatology, I was converted from to where I'm now~this took much longer to figure out than Soteriology since much was understanding spiritual connections of some many links that one must go through to put the pieces of the spiritual puzzle together BEFORE one can clearly see end time and its related events taking us from the cross to Jesus' second coming and the end of this world as we know it.

Church government~ NOWHERE in the scriptures is there a SINGLE man over a congregation of believers, or a mini pope in the churches of Christ/God. Not ONE NT epistle was ever written to a SINGLE "wanna be" Diotrephes but ALWAYS to the CHURCH in a particular location. 

So, my dear friend, I have changed more than most babies diapers have been changed! Is this not true of a Christian life that we should GROW in grace and KNOWLEDGE? The apostles sure did, and any man that makes a boast of never changing he is only showing just how deceived he really is in " his " religion. 

At the end of his life Agustine wrote a book on showing his previous errors to where he then stood.  https://www.questia.com/library/98659311/the-retractations   We ALL should be able to do the same IF we are true seekers of THE TRUTH as it is IN JESUS CHRIST, not in religious cults, for the most part, these folks NEVER change.
« Last Edit: Sun May 24, 2020 - 06:42:42 by RB »

Offline 4WD

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #14 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 06:59:02 »
Dear lady, I have many times from when I first started out in my Christian faith and not just a little, but an overhaul of just about every doctrine that I was first taught.....
How then, my good Christian brother, did you end up so wrong in so much?   ::smile::   ::smile::

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #15 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 07:02:46 »
How then, my good Christian brother, did you end up so wrong in so much?   ::smile::   ::smile::
My friend is BACK...missed you. Love you, and trust you are doing good and staying out of trouble, which for you is hard.... ::smile::

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #16 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 07:36:16 »
My friend is BACK...missed you. Love you, and trust you are doing good and staying out of trouble, which for you is hard.... ::smile::
Yes it is hard for me...  about 20 years ago I decided to give up smoking, drinking and wild women.  It was the worst 3 hours of my whole life.   ::frown::

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #17 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 08:35:07 »
Dear lady, I have many times from when I first started out in my Christian faith and not just a little, but an overhaul of just about every doctrine that I was first taught from the "fundamental (got to add this) "INDEPENDENCE" Baptist churches" here on the very buckle of the so-called Bible belt of the world.

Without question, some very good decent folks who in their " OWN " system fear God being overly righteous through "man-made doctrines"~ no smoking, drinking, a few that taught no makeup, no shorts, no pants on women, cut your hair a certain way, no beards on men, the list is endless. These were many of their practical doctrines on what constitutes living a godly life.

On theology side~I've changed on just about every single doctrine that I was first taught in my first three years or so. This list is a mile long and that's not kidding.

Free-will, Well, let's cut through the muster shall we: their own system of Soteriology I was converted from to where I now stand. Their WHOLE system of eschatology, I was converted from to where I'm now~this took much longer to figure out than Soteriology since much was understanding spiritual connections of some many links that one must go through to put the pieces of the spiritual puzzle together BEFORE one can clearly see end time and its related events taking us from the cross to Jesus' second coming and the end of this world as we know it.

Church government~ NOWHERE in the scriptures is there a SINGLE man over a congregation of believers, or a mini pope in the churches of Christ/God. Not ONE NT epistle was ever written to a SINGLE "wanna be" Diotrephes but ALWAYS to the CHURCH in a particular location. 

So, my dear friend, I have changed more than most babies diapers have been changed! Is this not true of a Christian life that we should GROW in grace and KNOWLEDGE? The apostles sure did, and any man that makes a boast of never changing he is only showing just how deceived he really is in " his " religion. 

At the end of his life Agustine wrote a book on showing his previous errors to where he then stood.  https://www.questia.com/library/98659311/the-retractations   We ALL should be able to do the same IF we are true seekers of THE TRUTH as it is IN JESUS CHRIST, not in religious cults, for the most part, these folks NEVER change.

Dear lady?  Hmmm. I thank you for that though it may well be a miss-nomenclature as there are those who raise doubts, even on here. It is alright.. I claim a certain dispensation, if I may... being a true Ginger and having a modified Molly Brown personality. ::tippinghat::

Now, what I meant when I said

Quote
NO one here will ever change their mind in their beliefs.

is not that no one here will change their minds on their beliefs, but should have phrased it that NO ONE here will change anothers beliefs to their own way of thinking.

Yes, the debates, as tame at they never are or the knocked down short of hitting below the belt ones, can challenge ones own thinking but it does not happen from the posts here.

We may give pause, and we may see the other side but in the end we do end with what we are comfortable with in our beliefs.

Just look at you and 4WD. You two are the best debaters of anyone I have ever read on these forums.

But you still both adhere to your personal understandings.

And that is alright and it is healthy... I think.

For myself... yes, I was brought up in a main line protestant church. And for the first 30 years of my life actually did not even know that there were differences in beliefs within the mainline protestant churches. (except my Baptist girlfriend was all about belief in the rapture and at that time...in my teens... never had heard of it.... cause our Presby church never talked of such things)

Only that  there were big differences with the Catholics and the ones that go door to door. .... and the cults.
(BTW.. point of interest?... When my adopted mom and dad were first married, she was Catholic. She converted to keep the family in one religion. For the first couple of years of their marriage though she and I would go to her Mass and then to my Church service. You might be surprised to know that there often were the same or very similar sermons on a given Sunday and the preaching was very very similar......)

It was not until I started to ... now don't get all excited here on me.... stay calm.... but it was not until I started to watch
multiple televangelists... all of whom preached a little differently, and watch Christian TV.... and saw yet other perspectives...

At that time  my own church... they started to look at the "re-imagining God" stuff in their summer camps and study the Goddess Sophia" in their summer camps... as was verified by a monthly newsletter a watchdog group sent out....
and  I mentally distanced from that church and it was in the 1980s that we ( mom, dad and I) got away from attending weekly services but a "variety" of ones were watched on TV.

And I saw different perspectives and none were anti my beliefs in Jesus as Son of God, Born of a Virgin, Was crucified and died for MY sins, and was resurrected... then I knew the value of listening to a variety as long as the core tenets of Christianity
were intact.

And that is when I personally got super invested in reading the bible. Learning what I could. Bought so many books, not all did I read. Even attended that endtimes forum at Founder's Inn in VA Beach... and did a 180 turn in my lifestyle all with the ernest beliefs that I was growing to God and growing in God. And was striving daily for me to be as He wants me to be... for 24 years..(until I was stupid. admittedly... let my guard down and did a back sliding for a few years) then picked myself up and found GC.)

But I have changed in my 73 years of life on this earth in the way I believe and understand. I still see things in the bible and wonder why no one else sees what I see.

So while you have put more "study" into what has influenced your beliefs...then I have perhaps. Mine are not invalid.






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Re: Shamed
« Reply #18 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 14:31:23 »
Yes it is hard for me...  about 20 years ago I decided to give up smoking, drinking and wild women.  It was the worst 3 hours of my whole life.   ::frown::
Only lasted three hours? Well, that probably longer than others who only lasted from the time church services were over until they got home! But I KNOW different, you still are very committed its in your spiritual DNA.
Quote from: Rella on: Today at 08:35:07
But I have changed in my 73 years of life on this earth
No longer to be called Dear lady, but " MISS " Rella because you are my senior by a few months, or maybe even more. I'll be 72 in August on the same day your good friend Bill Clinton will be 74~the 19th.

MY, you an old lady.  ::smile::  4WD put me up to say this.  ::peeking::
« Last Edit: Sun May 24, 2020 - 14:34:42 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #19 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 15:25:36 »
You’re misunderstanding what 4WD said, Red.

What he meant was that 20 years ago, he had just finished smoking for an hour, drinking for an hour, and hanging around wild women for an hour.  But then he decided that they were the worst three hours of his life, and decided to go the straight and narrow ever since those horrible three hours were over, ain’t that right, 4WD?

All in the way you want to read it...  ::smile::

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #20 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 15:34:59 »
Only lasted three hours? Well, that probably longer than others who only lasted from the time church services were over until they got home! But I KNOW different, you still are very committed its in your spiritual DNA. No longer to be called Dear lady, but " MISS " Rella because you are my senior by a few months, or maybe even more. I'll be 72 in August on the same day your good friend Bill Clinton will be 74~the 19th.

MY, you an old lady.  ::smile::  4WD put me up to say this.  ::peeking::

Naw, Miss Rella make me sound like a spinster and while I am an old maid. (Which was foretold to me when I was 8 years old that I would be....)

Just call me Pita.....

But since I am older then you, turned 73 on May 22....you better be kind to your elders... or i'll tell rofl


Online RB

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #21 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 04:35:02 »
Naw, Miss Rella make me sound like a spinster and while I am an old maid. (Which was foretold to me when I was 8 years old that I would be....)

Just call me Pita.....

But since I am older then you, turned 73 on May 22....you better be kind to your elders... or i'll tell rofl

Yes "ma'am" Pita

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #22 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 09:33:57 »
Quote from:  RB on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 06:26:19
In the meantime I'll see if I could do the same by using a chart.   
Here is a very simple "timeline" from Christ to the end of the world of my understanding of the timeline. 




 
« Last Edit: Tue May 26, 2020 - 08:44:32 by RB »

Offline robycop3

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #23 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 09:50:24 »
  I turned 72 in April, so I reckon I'm in the middle here.

  The eschatological events will begin when the "beast/antichrist/man of sin" takes power. Either soon after that, or just before that, the Jews will build their new temple in Jerusalem. Then will come the "Gog-Magog war", then the "abomination of desplation & the mark of the beast will be instituted. Then will be the great trib  & Jesus' return immediately afterwards, as He said. All this will occur in a span of less than 7 years.

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #24 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 08:43:48 »
I want to thank Alan before all for making post 22 larger for all to see clearly.

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #25 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 14:36:24 »
I turned 72 in April, so I reckon I'm in the middle here.
If "ma'am" Pita is telling us the truth. You do know that women do not like to disclose their true age.  ::smile::
Quote from: robycop3 on: Yesterday at 09:50:24
The eschatological events will begin when the "beast/antichrist/man of sin" takes power.
As far as the beginning of sorrows for the true saints of God~and it is not taking power, but totally the children of disobedience ruling in the temple of God (or, the professing churches of Christ where Christ is to be preached as the person who SECURED eternal life for his people by his obedience and righteousness as the MAN JESUS Christ) the abomination that God Himself will make desolate at his second coming.
Quote from: robycop3 on: Yesterday at 09:50:24
Either soon after that, or just before that, the Jews will build their new temple in Jerusalem.
There is NO prophecy of scripture(s) promising a literal temple in Jerusalem. The only temple that was promised to be built was to be built without hands but by the Spirit of the Living God. The only Jerusalem that is truly the apple of God's eye is the "NEW" Jerusalem made up of both Jews and Gentiles where God shall dwell in the midst of world without end. It is all through the NT, showing us how the Jewish Apostles interpreted their own OT scriptures, you need to be wise and follow them, not C.I Scofield and other men following Jewish fables.

I could give many NT scriptures proving that the temple promised in 2nd Samuel and other OT scriptures have and are being fulfilled when each person is born of the Spirit of God and THERE in the new man the Spirit of God dwells. It is Christ IN YOU the hope of eternal glory, not some temple in a God-forsaken literal city in the middle east. God was forever finished with Jerusalem being the place to worship God when Jesus Christ arose from the dead.
Quote
Matthew 27:51~"And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;"
The reason why is because a NEW and living way to God was secured by Christ's body, which the veil was a type of. We could spend many hours here but this truth should be very easy to see, but Jewish fables are rejected.
Quote from: robycop3 on: Yesterday at 09:50:24
Then will come the "Gog-Magog war", then the "abomination of desplation & the mark of the beast will be instituted. Then will be the great trib  & Jesus' return immediately afterwards, as He said. All this will occur in a span of less than 7 years.
Sir, you need to work on your Biblical timeline of end-time eschatology and related events, you have them all bundled together~ you do not get it right by presenting a Spectrum TV Gold offer to your listeners. Maybe with TV Internet offers this may work but not with God's word concerning end-time teachings and related events....we must get the order of events correct and not add any events that do not belong in this timeline. 
« Last Edit: Wed May 27, 2020 - 02:59:52 by RB »

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #26 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 19:13:20 »
If "ma'am" Pita" is telling us the truth. You do know that women do not like to disclose their true age.  ::smile::

That is true. And I do not either. And this one...for some odd reason is a difficult one for me. Hmmm 37 was horribly bad for me. Must be the 3s and the 7s?

It makes ones like young grasshopper make comments that can be quite insulting
or even hurtful.

But now that everyday is one day closer to my eternity I sure do not need to add to
my list of..... accountable .... well you know.  Now, I am trying to always tell the truth,even when I hurt someones feelings.  ::nodding::


 

« Last Edit: Tue May 26, 2020 - 19:16:50 by Rella »

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #27 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 19:48:23 »
There is NO prophecy of scripture(s) promising a literal temple in Jerusalem.

That is perhaps so, but the fact is that the Jews  are preparing to build a 3rd temple
on the Temple Mount .

They are getting their supplies all ready and they have been looking for that
unblemished red heifer for a very longtime.

To the Orthodox Jews the prophets in the Hebrew Bible called for its construction to be fulfilled prior to, or in tandem with, the Messianic age.

see this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Temple

Now,whether or not it is or is not for us  it is going to be built.

And it does seem according to the Orthodox Jews it needs to be prior to or in tandem with the Messianic age it is not unreasonable for us to pay attention to such.

 





Offline lea

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #28 on: Wed May 27, 2020 - 17:12:38 »

Who cares?

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #29 on: Wed May 27, 2020 - 18:25:20 »
Who cares?

Well, certainly not you.

You are the one who said in another thread.

Re: Continuing on the millennium fallacy
« Reply #40 on: Today at 17:17:56 »
Quote
Like I stated, who cares about the Pharisees beyond what Jesus said about them in Matthew 23?

You seem to care about unsaved Jews too much.

You might want to remember, even if you do not want to discuss or admit it... it was God who chose the Jews as His chosen. And it was a Jew... God chose to be the mother of the messiah (Jesus),which in turn made Him a Jew.

It is purely by the mercy of God that you can call yourself saved because if He had not ultimately said to spread the word to the Gentiles where would you be?

And it was in that Jewish part of the world that God has carried out his plan according to you, and will carry out his plans according to me.

So if they are following their heritage and religious upbringing and teachings ...just because it does not fit into your preterist beliefs does not mean that it is not in line with where we are headed. 




Offline lea

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #30 on: Wed May 27, 2020 - 18:32:39 »
Well, certainly not you.

You are the one who said in another thread.

Re: Continuing on the millennium fallacy
« Reply #40 on: Today at 17:17:56 »
You might want to remember, even if you do not want to discuss or admit it... it was God who chose the Jews as His chosen. And it was a Jew... God chose to be the mother of the messiah (Jesus),which in turn made Him a Jew.

It is purely by the mercy of God that you can call yourself saved because if He had not ultimately said to spread the word to the Gentiles where would you be?

And it was in that Jewish part of the world that God has carried out his plan according to you, and will carry out his plans according to me.

So if they are following their heritage and religious upbringing and teachings ...just because it does not fit into your preterist beliefs does not mean that it is not in line with where we are headed.
Here's where I can't stand your religious stuff.

Don't mock Preterism because you are an old religious believer in the "return of Christ hasn't happened yet.."

Get with knowledge today and study if needed to understand the eschatology in Scripture.

Otherwise stick to general stuff Rella, because you are too hardened to learn eschatology from a Prets POV it seems.

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #31 on: Thu May 28, 2020 - 04:38:41 »
Don't mock Preterism because you are an old religious believer in the "return of Christ hasn't happened yet.."
It is indeed "old" all the way back to the teachings of the holy apostles~when Jesus does return, this world as we know it shall pass away with fervent heat~that so far has not occured. You just happen to fall into a different category than those who just mock the second coming, yet still, you are mocking which puts you into the same boat with them.

Jesus did not literally or figuratively come in 70 A.D. a doctrine created much like the secret rapture theory,  neither of which is in the word of God, yet like lying politicians, they know that if you say something continuously and long enough folks will believe even though it is a lie. Place any sincere person on an island with ONLY the word of God, they would never come to believe in a secret rapture theory with seven years of tribulation to follow, and then a thousand years reign on this earth from a literal city namely Jerusalem with ANIMALS sacrifices AGAIN practiced, etc, etc. Likewise the 70. A.D. theory that with all of its corrupt doctrine they also would NEVER see, simply the reason why is it is NOWHERE taught in the hot scriptures, ONLY in schools, churches that are void of the Spirit of God and truth. But that's where we are today, and if God does not shorten the last days before his coming, then NO FLESH would be saved, that is, with TRUE biblical knowledge of the word of God~that's why Jesus said that this time of trouble/tribulation the likes this world has never seen! (Matthew 24:4-25...especially consider~vss 22-24)
Quote from: Peter who was NO preterist or Pre-mill
2nd Peter 3:3-17~Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."
I know your lying doctrine that teaches these things took place in 70 A.D. but the CONTENTS of the context will prove that you like those in the apostle's days wrest God's truths.
« Last Edit: Thu May 28, 2020 - 04:44:36 by RB »

Offline Rella

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #32 on: Thu May 28, 2020 - 08:43:20 »
Quote
Posted by: RB
« on: Today at 04:38:41 »Insert Quote
Quote
Quote from: lea on Yesterday at 18:32:39
Don't mock Preterism because you are an old religious believer in the "return of Christ hasn't happened yet.."
It is indeed "old" all the way back to the teachings of the holy apostles~when Jesus does return, this world as we know it shall pass away with fervent heat~that so far has not occured. You just happen to fall into a different category than those who just mock the second coming, yet still, you are mocking which puts you into the same boat with them.

Jesus did not literally or figuratively come in 70 A.D. a doctrine created much like the secret rapture theory,  neither of which is in the word of God, yet like lying politicians, they know that if you say something continuously and long enough folks will believe even though it is a lie. Place any sincere person on an island with ONLY the word of God, they would never come to believe in a secret rapture theory with seven years of tribulation to follow, and then a thousand years reign on this earth from a literal city namely Jerusalem with ANIMALS sacrifices AGAIN practiced, etc, etc. Likewise the 70. A.D. theory that with all of its corrupt doctrine they also would NEVER see, simply the reason why is it is NOWHERE taught in the hot scriptures, ONLY in schools, churches that are void of the Spirit of God and truth. But that's where we are today, and if God does not shorten the last days before his coming, then NO FLESH would be saved, that is, with TRUE biblical knowledge of the word of God~that's why Jesus said that this time of trouble/tribulation the likes this world has never seen! (Matthew 24:4-25...especially consider~vss 22-24)

Quote from: Peter who was NO preterist or Pre-mill
 
Quote
2nd Peter 3:3-17~Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying,Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."
I know your lying doctrine that teaches these things took place in 70 A.D. but the CONTENTS of the context will prove that you like those in the apostle's days wrest God's truths.

RB ::thumbup:: ::thumbup::

Please excuse me for jumping in here a bit to say this is a likely reply to your excellent quote from 2 Peter.

While you, and I and most all reasoning Christians read and understand this.... THEY ARE LIKELY to say
but 2 Peter was allegedly  written toward the end of Peter's life (cf. 1:12-15), after he had written a prior letter to the same readers (probably 1 Peter). Since Peter was martyred during the reign of Nero, his death must have occurred prior to a.d. 68; so it is very likely that he wrote 2 Peter between 65 and 68.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/2-peter/

And then they will further comment, likely, that since 2 Peter had a question as to authenticity , it is not reliable, but even if it is.... it came befoe 70AD shoring up their argument.

Quote
"Although 2 Peter was not as widely known and recognized in the early church as 1 Peter, some may have used and accepted it as authoritative as early as the second century and perhaps even in the latter part of the first century (1 Clement [a.d. 95] may allude to it). It was not ascribed to Peter until Origen's time (185-253), and he seems to reflect some doubt concerning it. Eusebius (265-340) placed it among the questioned books, though he admits that most accept it as from Peter. After Eusebius's time, it seems to have been quite generally accepted as canonical.

I have read every word of theirs carefully. THEY ARE WRONG... but are masters of twisting and injecting what they, themselves, cannot historically prove . All the puzzle pieces simply do not fit.

Why has there not ever been 1 document posted written by even some obscure , never heard of, person describing in detail what happened during 68 to 70 AD that they witnessed in the temple destruction or anything else going on that would pertain to Revelation being fulfilled, other then Josephus who gave an account of the destruction?

Just randomly picking a few things that no one wrote about that could have witnessed like Josephus did.

No one wrote of seeing the two witnesses talked of in Revelation. Yes, they name them but no one wrote, not even Josephus of there laying dead in the streets for 3 days


No one wrote of seeing , after they claim that  the  1st 1000 years before the temple destruction was completed that they saw any of the dead living again.
Quote
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.This is the first resurrection.

They claim there is no second 1000 years.... But they cannot explain

Quote
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Of course NO ONE wrote of these things because they have not occurred yet.

We could go through the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation verse by verse.

They cannot prove their points because no one wrote of the future prophesies as having witnessed because they have not happened. Josephus told us what had occurred. That was it.

All other commentaries were made from a century(s) later by those who did ot have eye witness accounts, and if they did, they questioned the validity such as even 2 Peter's account that you wonderfully posted and mad red the key parts... because
even though they might and likely will claim that pointed to 70AD Oregen and Eusebius questioned it ... and not until
after Eusebius was it considered canon.

I want the preterists to provide us with identifiable historical documents (researchable) that emphatically states Jesus came in 70 AD... or as one of the one's most vocal on here says... they need to do away.
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Offline robycop3

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Re: Shamed
« Reply #33 on: Fri May 29, 2020 - 04:55:53 »
  I've been carrying on dialogue, mostly with "3 Resurrections" about historical documentation that proves preterism true. This gent has used imagination, etc. to try to link certain historical events to the fulfillment of the eschatological prophecies, when, in reality, they don't come close to fulfilling them. A few others have jumped in, too, but NOT ONE has actually provided any historical proof that those events have occurred.

 Some prets rely on Josephus, who wrote SOME accurate history of the Jews' past before that time, but his later writings were slanted so as not to take a chance on offending Vaspasian, & later, Titus.

  The Gog-Magog war certainly hasn't yet happened, as Israel has never been "a land of unwalle3d villages". And Scripture identifies the main peoples & nations who will be part of a coalition that will attack Israel. Seems the antichrist will broker some deal between Israel & its Moslem neithbors to cdause them all to disarm, but the HATRED will still be there, & shortly thereafter, those Moslems will turn to Russia, offering money to re-arm them & lead them into an attack on Israel, which will have remained unarmed. The Zealot attack on jerusalem certainly didn't fulfill the prophecy of that war.

  And there's NO historical record, either Jewish or secular, of anyone committing the "abomination of desolation" after Jesus' time in the old temple before it was destroyed. And Paul plainly wrote that Jesus wouldn't return til the man of sin (the antichrist) sat down in the temple & declared himself to be God.

  And Rev. 3:10 says the trib will be WORLDWIDE ! I know the verse reads "hour of temptation", but who won't be tempted to take the mark of the beast, & look to him for protection when the great trib hits ?

  And the events of that trib, as set forth in Rev. 16 aren't exactly small! Where's any historical record that these events have already happened ?????

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