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Christian Interests => End Times Forum => Preterist Forum => Topic started by: raggthyme13 on Sun Jul 31, 2016 - 00:11:35

Title: The Dead Sea...
Post by: raggthyme13 on Sun Jul 31, 2016 - 00:11:35
To any Preterists on this forum,

A friend of mine posted this saying it is coming to pass before our eyes. I'd like to know from the Preterist perspective how these prophecies were fulfilled in the first century. Thanks!

http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/72711/fulfillment-dead-sea-prophecy-begun/#EJvryMjlCJTC7Mxi.97 (http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/72711/fulfillment-dead-sea-prophecy-begun/#EJvryMjlCJTC7Mxi.97)
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: Barley on Wed Aug 03, 2016 - 01:32:33
To any Preterists on this forum,

A friend of mine posted this saying it is coming to pass before our eyes. I'd like to know from the Preterist perspective how these prophecies were fulfilled in the first century. Thanks!

[url]http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/72711/fulfillment-dead-sea-prophecy-begun/#EJvryMjlCJTC7Mxi.97[/url] ([url]http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/72711/fulfillment-dead-sea-prophecy-begun/#EJvryMjlCJTC7Mxi.97[/url])


Don't call myself a preterist, but my reply would be Malachi chapter 4.
I would say your friends story is fishy, but not from the dead sea.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/Smileys/default/lookaround.gif (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/Smileys/default/lookaround.gif)
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Thu Aug 04, 2016 - 18:23:00
The prophecy in question is Eze 47:8-9.  They might have kept reading down the chapter 2 more verses to find this...

Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

Sounds like they aren't understanding something.  Anyhow, I definitely DON'T understand the last 9 chapters of Ezekiel.

I did look up a few articles on it.  This one seemed pretty good to me, though I don't know the author or his beliefs:

http://www.equip.org/article/making-sense-ezekiels-temple-vision/ (http://www.equip.org/article/making-sense-ezekiels-temple-vision/)
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: raggthyme13 on Fri Aug 05, 2016 - 00:19:25
Thanks for the input, I'll have to check that out!
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 16:39:55
Hi raggthyme13,

To answer your question from 3 years ago, this part of Ezekiel’s prophecy about the Dead Sea was NOT fulfilled in the first century; it was fulfilled long ago in the post-exilic return era under a revived nation led by Nehemiah, Ezra, Zerubbabel, and Joshua the high priest.

Another copy of the article written by Steve Gregg (at the link suggested for you by Wycliffes_Shillelagh) is also found at the following link below - along with some comments giving a critique of Steve Gregg’s view on this subject.  Without duplicating all the content of those critical comments, (since they’re a bit long), I think it would be worth your time to read the last three of the 10 comments on that article, dated Oct. 18, 2018 and Jan. 1, 2019.  Those last comments describe what Ezekiel’s vision of the temple’s effect on the Dead Sea actually meant - in literal terms for Zerubbabel’s temple built with Ezekiel’s “blueprints”.  And it doesn’t bear the slightest resemblance to the modern-day fulfillment application given to it in your original article.

https://adammaarschalk.com/2016/06/17/making-sense-of-ezekiels-temple-vision-by-steve-gregg/
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Thu Dec 12, 2019 - 11:50:13
  Before you're tempted to become a preterist, please remember:

   A "full" preterist must reduce several clearly-LITERAL Scriptures to "symbolic/figurative" status & re-write some history in order to attempt to sustain his/her doctrine. And a "partial" preterist, one who believes all prophesied events have already occurred except Jesus' return, must disregard Jesus' words in Matt. 24:29-31, that He will return immediately after the great trib ends. So, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue !

  In other words, both pret doctrines are simply FALSE.

Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Tue Dec 17, 2019 - 19:44:59
Robycop3, are you sure you aren’t on somebody’s payroll to inundate any and all Preterist forums you can find, just to create a snowstorm of comments so that there isn’t time to address all of them?  You appear to be on this gracecentered website not to fellowship and exchange with fellow Christians, but to fight.

I can appreciate that people may feel called to focus on a particular theme of scripture, but I’m not sure that is your motive, by the style you are posting with.  Do you care about the people who regularly visit this website?  Do you know anything about them?
Does it matter to you that mommydi is now grieving over a cherished pet’s death, and that RB has a grandson who is fighting for his life? 

Come on, there are real people here with real joys and real heartaches.  Try to temper your posts with a bit of humanity sprinkled in, and whatever else you have to say might go down better.  Otherwise, people will yawn at your crusading style and pass on to something else more relatable.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 07:07:14
Robycop3, are you sure you aren’t on somebody’s payroll to inundate any and all Preterist forums you can find, just to create a snowstorm of comments so that there isn’t time to address all of them?  You appear to be on this gracecentered website not to fellowship and exchange with fellow Christians, but to fight.

I can appreciate that people may feel called to focus on a particular theme of scripture, but I’m not sure that is your motive, by the style you are posting with.  Do you care about the people who regularly visit this website?  Do you know anything about them?
Does it matter to you that mommydi is now grieving over a cherished pet’s death, and that RB has a grandson who is fighting for his life? 

Come on, there are real people here with real joys and real heartaches.  Try to temper your posts with a bit of humanity sprinkled in, and whatever else you have to say might go down better.  Otherwise, people will yawn at your crusading style and pass on to something else more relatable.

  I, too, am a person with family,  cares & probs, same as everyone else. My wife has COPD. Both daughters-in-law recently had serious surgeries. Plus, the usual household probs. But this isn't "Dear Gabby" or a prayer request line; it's about a false doctrine. Thus, I hit on the false doctrine of preterism here. Deal with it !
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 11:44:52
LOL, I don’t mind “dealing” with Preterist detractors.  It’s not an imposition at all, since as you can probably tell, I love to write, even if I’m limited to tapping away on a cell phone.    Especially since fellowship at my home on religious topics has been reduced to virtually nil.  Besides, I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone’s comments across the board on this forum.  It’s a great website, and I hope to be able to mix and mingle with the regulars for many additional years to come.  Hope your perspective is the same.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 16:26:13
LOL, I don’t mind “dealing” with Preterist detractors.  It’s not an imposition at all, since as you can probably tell, I love to write, even if I’m limited to tapping away on a cell phone.    Especially since fellowship at my home on religious topics has been reduced to virtually nil.  Besides, I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone’s comments across the board on this forum.  It’s a great website, and I hope to be able to mix and mingle with the regulars for many additional years to come.  Hope your perspective is the same.

  Well, I hope you can get a better writing instrument than a cell phone; I know it takes great effort to tap out a long message on one. I commend you for making that effort !

    But I 100% believe preterism is a false, man-made doctrine. I'm pretty well-versed in history. I'm almost 72 years old, & have had years to study history and Scripture together. Each Christian is a "specialist" in some function of service to God, & mine is fighting false doctrines of faith/worship.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Wed Dec 18, 2019 - 17:11:22
  Well, I hope you can get a better writing instrument than a cell phone; I know it takes great effort to tap out a long message on one. I commend you for making that effort !

    But I 100% believe preterism is a false, man-made doctrine. I'm pretty well-versed in history. I'm almost 72 years old, & have had years to study history and Scripture together. Each Christian is a "specialist" in some function of service to God, & mine is fighting false doctrines of faith/worship.
A specialist?  rofl I believe you are 100% not.
 So I guess you are going to have to convince me that you actually studied the Bible.
You seem to be on this forum to fight with preterists only. God doesn't send one to do that, your own flesh (ego and ignorance) causes you to fight instead of answer preterist's questions back.
Why don't you start categories on end times futuristic forum?
 Is it because you can't get an argument there? Or don't want to because you think it is a service to God to fight here? Someone who denies proof from scripture is speaking from the flesh.

Every out of touch post you have made here has stalled others from answering/asking and or learning about preterism.






 
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 4WD on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 04:30:38
Every out of touch post you have made here has stalled others from answering/asking and or learning about preterism.
Or perhaps most of the others already know enough about preterism to reject it and avoid the discussion.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 05:59:30
A specialist?  rofl I believe you are 100% not.
 So I guess you are going to have to convince me that you actually studied the Bible.

I've studied it much-more than you think, along with over 60 years of studying history. Proof: I don't believe the false doctrines YOU seem to believe.
 
Quote
You seem to be on this forum to fight with preterists only.

Well, this IS a forum about preterists/preterism! This is a place to do it !


Quote
God doesn't send one to do that, your own flesh (ego and ignorance) causes you to fight instead of answer preterist's questions back.
Why don't you start categories on end times futuristic forum?
 Is it because you can't get an argument there? Or don't want to because you think it is a service to God to fight here? Someone who denies proof from scripture is speaking from the flesh.

  You're bent outta shape because I have posted Scriptural and historical truths that have exposed the nakedness of the pret doctrine. And I have sought to answer ALL questions, unlike the prets, with TRUTH insteada old wives' tales, Scripture-twisting, & guesswork.


Quote
Every out of touch post you have made here has stalled others from answering/asking and or learning about preterism.

  Know what "Bah! Humbug!" means?

  Anyone posting here is free to ask/answer any question(s) he/she chooses.

And there's only one fact to learn about preterism - IT'S FALSE !
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 06:40:11
Hi robycop3,

Certainly you are free to introduce objections to Preterism, but by the forum rules, there are restrictions in how you are to do this.  You are consistently breaking rule #2.3 by derailing the subject of posts from their original theme.  Moderators are patient with this ordinarily, but if it develops into a real problem, as you are doing, they may step in and call you on this. 

Please stick to the subject introduced by the original poster.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 08:12:37
A specialist?  rofl I believe you are 100% not.
 So I guess you are going to have to convince me that you actually studied the Bible.
You seem to be on this forum to fight with preterists only. God doesn't send one to do that, your own flesh (ego and ignorance) causes you to fight instead of answer preterist's questions back.
Why don't you start categories on end times futuristic forum?
 Is it because you can't get an argument there? Or don't want to because you think it is a service to God to fight here? Someone who denies proof from scripture is speaking from the flesh.

Every out of touch post you have made here has stalled others from answering/asking and or learning about preterism.

I read the quasi-eschatological threads on here, but generally avoid posting in them because they only reflect the man's personal opinions.

But :

Quote
    Someone who denies proof from scripture is speaking from the flesh.   

It is you who are denying scripture because not all phrophesy has been fulfilled.

When did this happen.... I want book chapter and verse.

Revelation 13:16
“And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:”

OR

Revelation 8: 8-11

8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

When did this happen?

At best this calls preterism a non starter for it could only be a partial preterism.

Quote
   Every out of touch post you have made here has stalled others from answering/asking and or learning about preterism.   

Not true at all... I am with 4WD on this one where he says.

"Or perhaps most of the others already know enough about preterism to reject it and avoid the discussion."

As to your

Quote
      Certainly you are free to introduce objections to Preterism, but by the forum rules, there are restrictions in how you are to do this.  You are consistently breaking rule #2.3 by derailing the subject of posts from their original theme.  Moderators are patient with this ordinarily, but if it develops into a real problem, as you are doing, they may step in and call you on this.

Please stick to the subject introduced by the original poster. 

This is the nature of every thread on GC. By now, YOU should know this. It is incumbent on you, the reader, if you need a subject to get back on course.... DO IT.

Usually off topic replies are the thing that keep people interested... at least they do me. But I can handle thinking of more then one thing at a time. Perhaps you cannot.





Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 08:45:17
Hi seekingHiswisdom,

This has nothing to do with my ability or inability to track multiple subjects at one time.  For those besides either you or myself who skim through the post topics trying to find subject-related material, it is confusing to have a mish-mash to wade through to get to the meat of the topic. 

I used to work in a library for several years, and there is a purpose behind the antiquated Dewey decimal system, so that material can be found quickly and easily, and is not lost in some dusty corner somewhere. Same purpose here.  It’s actually a disservice to one’s own cause to diverge from the topic too far.  Even though we have all done this periodically, as you say.  And I would not deny that it does make things more interesting at times.  But we need to think of other people’s needs also when we post.

If you, too, would like to start a post with the theme “It ain’t happened yet” regarded to prophecy, that would be the best option, I should think.  Why not try it? 
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 09:29:38
 To comply with 3 resurrections' request, I shall post about the Dead Sea.

  That name is not of "recent" origin at all. That sea was "dead" when men first examined it. There's no time in man's history when it wasn't.

  Thus, the Revelation prophecy refers to another sea.  It's a future event, same as is the whole "great trib".
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 15:00:27
LOL, I don’t mind “dealing” with Preterist detractors.  It’s not an imposition at all, since as you can probably tell, I love to write, even if I’m limited to tapping away on a cell phone.    Especially since fellowship at my home on religious topics has been reduced to virtually nil.  Besides, I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone’s comments across the board on this forum.  It’s a great website, and I hope to be able to mix and mingle with the regulars for many additional years to come.  Hope your perspective is the same.

Will start a reply to this, anew. Don't want to  post an off topic reply here  ::shrug::
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 15:05:56
LOL, I don’t mind “dealing” with Preterist detractors.  It’s not an imposition at all, since as you can probably tell, I love to write, even if I’m limited to tapping away on a cell phone.    Especially since fellowship at my home on religious topics has been reduced to virtually nil.  Besides, I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone’s comments across the board on this forum.  It’s a great website, and I hope to be able to mix and mingle with the regulars for many additional years to come.  Hope your perspective is the same.

OT reply

One of the absolute joys I have mastered is using the mic feature in my android keyboard.

I can say what I want to say. Add punctuation and when I say new paragraph it starts one.

I can run a string of texts faster then one can type just one. Same with emails.

I do not use my cell for here though as for some reason i can never seems to log on.

So give it a try. I bet you thoroughly will enjoy. And yes... spell check seems to work to spell properly from a voice.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Thu Dec 19, 2019 - 19:25:21
Or perhaps most of the others already know enough about preterism to reject it and avoid the discussion.
No. I blame him!
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 05:12:22
No. I blame him!

...For exposing your false doctrine.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 07:43:36
Hi seekingHiswisdom,

If I could, I would love to be able to use a mic feature on my phone to make comments, but I have to post in the presence of an aging spouse that is every bit as antagonistic to Preterism as the most opposed to it on this website.  If they heard me voicing my Preterist comments out loud, they could literally get upset enough to have a heart attack - I kid you not.  I try to abide by that rule “as much as lieth within you, live peaceably with all men.”

So, taptaptaptap it is for the time being!!
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 07:34:54
Hi seekingHiswisdom,

If I could, I would love to be able to use a mic feature on my phone to make comments, but I have to post in the presence of an aging spouse that is every bit as antagonistic to Preterism as the most opposed to it on this website.  If they heard me voicing my Preterist comments out loud, they could literally get upset enough to have a heart attack - I kid you not.  I try to abide by that rule “as much as lieth within you, live peaceably with all men.”

So, taptaptaptap it is for the time being!!

  Hoping you're able to get a laptop or desktop with a keyboard. No offense meant, but did you ever stop to think your spouse knows the TRUTH, that preterism has no truth in it ?
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 15:18:48
  Hoping you're able to get a laptop or desktop with a keyboard. No offense meant, but did you ever stop to think your spouse knows the TRUTH, that preterism has no truth in it ?

No offense either, but maybe we don't believe in your version of "truth."



Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sun Dec 22, 2019 - 17:06:50
Hey robycop3,

It’s my desktop that malfunctions for some reason when I try to post.  After just a few words typed out in the reply box, all of a sudden the box goes blank and it always says that an error occurred, or something to that effect.  It’s been that way for a couple years now, so I just gave up and decided to use my cell phone to post instead, which doesn’t have those symptoms.  Weird.  And I’m not tech savvy enough to know how to fix the problem. 

No offense taken at suggesting that my spouse might have the truth instead of me.  Actually, I learned the hard lesson after sitting with them for 16 years in a spiritually-abusive cult-like church that my dependence should never - Never - NEVER - I repeat - *NEVER* rely on anyone as the final source for truth if their doctrine opposes the scriptures in front of me and the Holy Spirit within.  To do otherwise is to idolize that person, and my relationship with my Savior and His Word now takes precedence over everything else.

If my partner was on the right track with their opposition to Preterism, then it would be yielding the fruit of the Spirit with PEACE and JOY, LONGSUFFERING, GENTLENESS, and MEEKNESS when they discuss these things with me.  Instead, they go apoplectic and start hyperventilating at any discussion that I  try to initiate from the Preterist perspective.  This has not changed over the 7 years since I first started studying eschatology around them. 

It’s sad that we have arrived at such an impasse that we are now unable to speak with each other about the scriptures that are so dear to us both.  On matters that can’t be resolved, “God hath called us to peace”, so silence on religious discussions is the only option left between us.  That’s why you guys get dumped on instead!

So, back to the Dead Sea..
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 06:04:25
  Try defragging your computer, make sure it's virus-free, and not overloaded with progs you don't use.  Also, try completely removing this website, cookies & all, & then re-download it. Hope that helps !

  And we must remember that even cults & evil people often have some things right. That's how they deceive people. Hitler was right about "law & order", even though HIS version of it was very-evil. And most pseudo-Christian cults have some correct doctrines, same as some legitimate congregations have some false ones.

  And I KNOW-not just GUESS-preterism is false. I know world history quite well. And the prophesied eschatological events simply haven't yet happened !  All the goofy pret excuses &  their attempts to reduce some Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status are false. Preterism is simply a false, man-made doctrine. 
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 20:41:32
  Try defragging your computer, make sure it's virus-free, and not overloaded with progs you don't use.  Also, try completely removing this website, cookies & all, & then re-download it. Hope that helps !

  And we must remember that even cults & evil people often have some things right. That's how they deceive people. Hitler was right about "law & order", even though HIS version of it was very-evil. And most pseudo-Christian cults have some correct doctrines, same as some legitimate congregations have some false ones.

  And I KNOW-not just GUESS-preterism is false. I know world history quite well. And the prophesied eschatological events simply haven't yet happened !  All the goofy pret excuses &  their attempts to reduce some Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status are false. Preterism is simply a false, man-made doctrine.

Wow, you really think about negative things, don't you?

Don't care about your "world history" knowledge. You don't even know what's history in the Bible!

Dispensationalism is stupid ::noworries::
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 05:47:28
Wow, you really think about negative things, don't you?

Don't care about your "world history" knowledge. You don't even know what's history in the Bible!

Dispensationalism is stupid ::noworries::

  Evidently, I'm 'WAY aheada you on history.

  And did I ever say I was a dispy?

 Here's my opinion: There are 5 dispensations: the one before Israel left Egypt, the "Old Covenabt, the New Covenant (the one we're in now) & the one that'll be after Jesus returns, & the one that'll be after the millenium is over & Satan is cast into the lake of fire.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Fri Dec 27, 2019 - 17:55:33
Yeah, well, the church age and the new covenant never ends.

Your logic is lacking.  His kingdom never ends.  The "church age" never ends.

Keep studying. ::reading::





Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 - 06:07:07
Yeah, well, the church age and the new covenant never ends.

Your logic is lacking.  His kingdom never ends.  The "church age" never ends.

Keep studying. ::reading::

  The church age will end when Jesus returns.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sat Dec 28, 2019 - 11:53:22
Hmmm, an “Age” by its very definition has both a beginning AND an end.  Paul spoke of the “AGES (plural) THAT ARE COMING”.  Here is Paul’s full quote in Ephesians 2:6-7 in the Interlinear: “...and raised us up together, and seated us together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, That he might show in the AGES THAT ARE COMING the surpassing riches of his grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”

This means that as Paul was writing those words, that he anticipated at least TWO more ages in the future: meaning the establishment of the New Covenant Age in AD 70, but yet ANOTHER age beyond that one.  This tells us that there will be a culminating point at a conclusion of the New Covenant Age, which will introduce yet another age, (one established after the final resurrection).

Now, back to the original post theme about the river running into the Dead Sea...
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 - 12:42:46
Hmmm, an “Age” by its very definition has both a beginning AND an end.  Paul spoke of the “AGES (plural) THAT ARE COMING”.  Here is Paul’s full quote in Ephesians 2:6-7 in the Interlinear: “...and raised us up together, and seated us together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, That he might show in the AGES THAT ARE COMING the surpassing riches of his grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”

This means that as Paul was writing those words, that he anticipated at least TWO more ages in the future: meaning the establishment of the New Covenant Age in AD 70, but yet ANOTHER age beyond that one.  This tells us that there will be a culminating point at a conclusion of the New Covenant Age, which will introduce yet another age, (one established after the final resurrection).

Now, back to the original post theme about the river running into the Dead Sea...

    The New Covenant age had already been established by Jesus.  But there's yet the millenial age & the new earth age after that.

  And the dead Sea has been "dead" for millenia.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sat Dec 28, 2019 - 13:24:15
The link in the original post by raggthyme had mentioned both scripture references to the waters issuing out of the Temple and running into the Dead Sea, spoken of first in Ezekiel 47 and again in Zechariah 14, where they are then given the new title of “living waters” going out of Jerusalem.

Ezekiel’s waters were a type of the later antitype fulfillment prophesied by Zechariah.   Ezekiel’s Temple waters were definitely connected to the time of the post-exilec return, when the Gihon Spring waters were being channeled through the Temple altar location in a restored Temple worship system once more. 

We can know that this Ezekiel 47 prophecy was specifically timed for fulfillment during the post-exilic return period, because this restored Temple high priesthood was to be filled by ONLY THE MEMBERS OF THE ZADOK FAMILY LINE - no other Levites were permitted to serve in the high priesthood role anymore, because they had not remained faithful during the period of exile (Ezekiel 48:11, and 44:10-16).  The high priest Joshua who first served in Zerubbabel’s restored temple had this approved ZADOK lineage that God required.  Since there is no longer any continuous lineage of the Zadok family (and hasn’t been ever since all genealogical records were destroyed in AD 70 Jerusalem), then this Ezekiel 47 prophecy about waters giving life to the Dead Sea could not possibly have any future fulfillment for our time.

The waters issuing from this restored Temple built by Zerubbabel’s hands were pictured in Ezekiel 47 as gradually increasing in depth until Ezekiel said he could not cross over the river, since it was so deep and wide an expanse. Ordinarily, for the most part the Kidron Valley was a wadi that remained dry for the better part of the year, and with the Gihon Spring waters from the Temple being released into it south of Jerusalem.  Occasional seasonal flooding coming from the north of the Kidron Valley would flow steeply downhill 20 miles or so to enter the Dead Sea.

Ezekiel’s vision of an uncrossable Kidron river current producing living things on its banks was more or less a symbolic portrayal of the steadily increasing progress of the nation’s restoration in the years after the post-exilic return.  Prosperity of the nation flourished back then, and physically speaking, the newly-functioning Temple would increasingly produce waters filled with a growing level of nutrients resulting from washing down the sacrificial animal carcasses with the Gihon Spring waters that were released to flow downhill into the Dead Sea.


Now, the anti type of Zechariah 14:8’s “living waters” issuing from the New Jerusalem after Christ’s AD 70 bodily return to the Mount of Olives was an even more advantageous reality, surpassing the effects of Ezekiel’s vision. 

Zechariah’s prophecy foretold that these “living waters” would extend - not just in one direction to the Jews’ territory of the Dead Sea location, but also in the opposite direction - flowing toward the Mediterranean Sea which led to Gentile lands across the sea.  This would be in “both summer and winter”, which meant that the effects of the “living waters” emerging from the New Jerusalem’s True Temple made of living stones would be continuous - not dependent upon the sporadic seasonal flood waters that fed the Kidron Valley. 

Christ referred to this prophesied Zechariah 14:8 effect of the “rivers of living water” coming from those filled with His Spirit (John 7:38-39).  “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe in him should receive...)”
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 - 13:51:58
  Jesus didn't return in 70 AD.  Time for you to abandon that fantasy. Where's the **EVIDENCE** He returned then ???????????????  His return is stuill future.

  And no "living waters" have flowed yet from the temple, except maybe the heavenly one.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Dec 28, 2019 - 17:02:14
And no "living waters" have flowed yet from the temple, except maybe the heavenly one.

Zechariah 13:1  (KJV)
13 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
 That is not future. Note the text. It is just before Jesus' crucifixion. Then "Smite the Shepard."
John 7:35-39, 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

No living water flows out of you?

How sad. 
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sun Dec 29, 2019 - 03:38:31


Zechariah 13:1  (KJV)
13 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
 That is not future. Note the text. It is just before Jesus' crucifixion. Then "Smite the Shepard."
John 7:35-39, 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those [a]believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

No living water flows out of you?

How sad.

  Well, "that day" hasn't yet arrived. And  you're not accepting my "living waters", which is the TRUTH I've presented to you & other prets here.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sun Dec 29, 2019 - 14:28:13

  Well, "that day" hasn't yet arrived. And  you're not accepting my "living waters", which is the TRUTH I've presented to you & other prets here.

Yes, we Preterists reject your ignorance of the "living waters" that were promised to the true Israel in the earthly description of the New Jerusalem and new earth. (Rev.21-22)
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Tue Dec 31, 2019 - 06:24:01
Yes, we Preterists reject your ignorance of the "living waters" that were promised to the true Israel in the earthly description of the New Jerusalem and new earth. (Rev.21-22)

  Of course you do, as you can't accept the REALITY that these things haven't yet happened.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Tue Dec 31, 2019 - 12:58:29
  Of course you do, as you can't accept the REALITY that these things haven't yet happened.

Again, you make the same error the pharisees did.... wanting a physical kingdom. 
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Wed Jan 01, 2020 - 07:49:32
  No, the error is YOURS in not believing Scripture.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Fri Jan 03, 2020 - 19:31:58
  No, the error is YOURS in not believing Scripture.
Show us where Jesus or in the O.T. where it's suggested that Jesus would reign on earth for a literal thousand years.

I think you need to look at Rev.20. The thrones with the judgment given to the apostles happened during the regeneration, which began with the apostles on physical earth. They were the first resurrection. Approximately 40 years time. The "rest of the dead" came alive after the thousand years were finished. AD70 was the time of the resurrection. The "millennium" ended in AD70.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 06:13:59
Show us where Jesus or in the O.T. where it's suggested that Jesus would reign on earth for a literal thousand years.

I think you need to look at Rev.20. The thrones with the judgment given to the apostles happened during the regeneration, which began with the apostles on physical earth. They were the first resurrection. Approximately 40 years time. The "rest of the dead" came alive after the thousand years were finished. AD70 was the time of the resurrection. The "millennium" ended in AD70.

  Nothing about the millenium beginning or ending then You're making it up, and it's quite-goofy. The millenium won't begin til Jesus returns.

  Don't believe Jesus is returning to earth?

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

  They couldn't try to attack Him if He hadn't returned to earth, simple as THAT ! he had come to rule the nations with a rod of iron, that is, strictly.

Rev. 20 :4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

  Think that won't be on earth? Let Scripture prove it WILL:

Rev. 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Once again, the false pret garbage goes "POOF !" in the face of Scripture.

Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 12:55:17
  Nothing about the millenium beginning or ending then You're making it up, and it's quite-goofy. The millenium won't begin til Jesus returns.

  Don't believe Jesus is returning to earth?

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

  They couldn't try to attack Him if He hadn't returned to earth, simple as THAT ! he had come to rule the nations with a rod of iron, that is, strictly.

Rev. 20 :4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

  Think that won't be on earth? Let Scripture prove it WILL:

Rev. 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Once again, the false pret garbage goes "POOF !" in the face of Scripture.

You don't have a clue about Revelation 20, so I'm not going to waste my time. Re-read my previous post and start to learn something about Rev.20.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 14:47:39
You don't have a clue about Revelation 20, so I'm not going to waste my time. Re-read my previous post and start to learn something about Rev.20.

  Evidently, I have many more clues than YOU do, as I believe the ACTUAL SCRIPTURE, not the goofy eisegesis of Preston, Alcazar, Gentry, etc. Again, the millenium won't begin til Jesus returns.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 17:37:49
  Evidently, I have many more clues than YOU do, as I believe the ACTUAL SCRIPTURE, not the goofy eisegesis of Preston, Alcazar, Gentry, etc. Again, the millenium won't begin til Jesus returns.

Prove where Jesus and the OT saints and prophets said Jesus would rule in an earthly kingdom for a literal thousand years. The Jews never believed in a limited time of a thousand years either!

 Let's see if you can prove that the kingdom of God is limited to one thousand years.  ::frown::
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 17:50:55
Prove where Jesus and the OT saints and prophets said Jesus would rule in an earthly kingdom for a literal thousand years. The Jews never believed in a limited time of a thousand years either!

 Let's see if you can prove that the kingdom of God is limited to one thousand years.  ::frown::

  I posted the Scriptures from Rev. 19-20 elsewhere in this sub-forum. You read them & then said I knew nothing about them.

What a lame excuse !
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 04, 2020 - 18:08:07
  I posted the Scriptures from Rev. 19-20 elsewhere in this sub-forum. You read them & then said I knew nothing about them.

What a lame excuse !

Really? Where in the OT are they promised a thousand years in an earthly kingdom?
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sun Jan 05, 2020 - 07:12:43
Really? Where in the OT are they promised a thousand years in an earthly kingdom?

  Nothing in the OT about it, but many NT prophecies are additions to OT ones.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sun Jan 05, 2020 - 11:34:35
  Nothing in the OT about it, but many NT prophecies are additions to OT ones.
In other words, you can't find that in the O.T., even when the N.T. is the fulfillment (not additions!) of the rest of OT promises and prophecies.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Jan 06, 2020 - 18:43:51
Really? Where in the OT are they promised a thousand years in an earthly kingdom?
The Book of Enoch.  Ok, it isn't actually in the Old Testament, and (spoiler) it isn't literal either.

However, it IS the book that is being referenced in Revelation talking about a "1000 year reign."
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 - 23:58:34
The Book of Enoch.  Ok, it isn't actually in the Old Testament, and (spoiler) it isn't literal either.

However, it IS the book that is being referenced in Revelation talking about a "1000 year reign."

  The Book of Enoch is a forgery, & here's proof: It mentions a year of 365 1/4 days' length, same as the year is now, but in Enoch's time it was only 360 days long. And that's not due to the ancients' miscalculation. As all men of that time depended upon agriculture, knowing the correct length of the year was very-important to them. Had they been off by 5 1/4 days, their seasons woulda been off almost a whole month after only 5 years ! They knew the length of the year by observing the points of sunrises, sunsets, & the shadows found at dawn and sunset.

  The year didn't attain its present length til the time of Hezekiah in the 700s BC.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Fri Jan 10, 2020 - 11:40:01
  The Book of Enoch is a forgery, & here's proof: It mentions a year of 365 1/4 days' length, same as the year is now, but in Enoch's time it was only 360 days long. And that's not due to the ancients' miscalculation. As all men of that time depended upon agriculture, knowing the correct length of the year was very-important to them. Had they been off by 5 1/4 days, their seasons woulda been off almost a whole month after only 5 years ! They knew the length of the year by observing the points of sunrises, sunsets, & the shadows found at dawn and sunset.

  The year didn't attain its present length til the time of Hezekiah in the 700s BC.

Except now you still can't answer my last reply with anything again!!! (reply #44)
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Jan 10, 2020 - 12:08:42
The Book of Enoch is a forgery...
A forgery?  I'm guessing you mean it wasn't written by Enoch?  The right word for that is pseudephigraphal.  I don't think anyone on earth believes the Enoch of Genesis wrote any of the books...

Oh, yeah... the "Book of Enoch" is actually 5 different books, so which part are you referring to?  Based on your comments, I'm guessing you're referring to the the book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven... which is one of the earlier sections, but also probably the least interesting.  Also, it isn't the same part as the bit I referenced earlier in this thread.

Here's proof: It mentions a year of 365 1/4 days' length, same as the year is now, but in Enoch's time it was only 360 days long. And that's not due to the ancients' miscalculation. As all men of that time depended upon agriculture, knowing the correct length of the year was very-important to them. Had they been off by 5 1/4 days, their seasons woulda been off almost a whole month after only 5 years ! They knew the length of the year by observing the points of sunrises, sunsets, & the shadows found at dawn and sunset.

The year didn't attain its present length til the time of Hezekiah in the 700s BC.
Where are you getting this information?  From what I know, the calendar in Enoch has 364 days.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 07:54:07
A forgery?  I'm guessing you mean it wasn't written by Enoch?  The right word for that is pseudephigraphal.  I don't think anyone on earth believes the Enoch of Genesis wrote any of the books...

Oh, yeah... the "Book of Enoch" is actually 5 different books, so which part are you referring to?  Based on your comments, I'm guessing you're referring to the the book of the courses of the luminaries of the heaven... which is one of the earlier sections, but also probably the least interesting.  Also, it isn't the same part as the bit I referenced earlier in this thread.
Where are you getting this information?  From what I know, the calendar in Enoch has 364 days.

  The Bible itself shows a 360-day year, as does the Mayan calendar, old Egyptian ones, (with later ones adding 5 "intercalary" days") the Aztec calendar stone, Indian Veda texts, & ancient Sumerian and Chinese calendars. This is but a partial list. Feel free to explore them yourself.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 11:37:45
  Nothing in the OT about it, but many NT prophecies are additions to OT ones.

Nope. You still can't answer my post about the thousand years!
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 14:06:23
Nope. You still can't answer my post about the thousand years!

Rev.20:4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev. 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

I believe GOD answered your Q before you ever asked it.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 14:51:29
rc3,
 You simply posted Scripture (a lousy version too).

So, you posted Scripture.  But you still can't understand prophetic language.

They were the "first resurrection."  Then we see the rest of the dead judged after the "thousand years"  that Satan was bound,  so the disciples could receive the gospel!

Almost 40 years.



Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 18:23:56
rc3,
 You simply posted Scripture (a lousy version too).

So, you posted Scripture.  But you still can't understand prophetic language.

They were the "first resurrection."  Then we see the rest of the dead judged after the "thousand years"  that Satan was bound,  so the disciples could receive the gospel!

Almost 40 years.

  Satan was not bound, as sin has been prevalent since A&E first sinned, and the "first resurrection" won't occur til Jesus raptures the Church.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 11, 2020 - 19:53:32
  Satan was not bound, as sin has been prevalent since A&E first sinned, and the "first resurrection" won't occur til Jesus raptures the Church.

You should give up on Biblical prophecy. Sticking to such juvenile Chiliasm is a doctrine of fools.

Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 - 06:08:48
You should give up on Biblical prophecy. Sticking to such juvenile Chiliasm is a doctrine of fools.

  Then, I guess you believe the revelating angel was a fool for saying Jesus & His saints will reign for 1K years on earth.
Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: lea on Sun Jan 12, 2020 - 10:21:17
  Then, I guess you believe the revelating angel was a fool for saying Jesus & His saints will reign for 1K years on earth.
Really? Where does the angel say Jesus would reign on earth for the thousand years?

Title: Re: The Dead Sea...
Post by: robycop3 on Mon Jan 13, 2020 - 10:42:40
Really? Where does the angel say Jesus would reign on earth for the thousand years?

 Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

  7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

  Obviously, the camp of the saints, where Jesus will be, will be on earth; otherwise the nations couldn't come up against it.

Next question ?