PeteWaldo - I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this post, whether in agreement or not. Yes, a close family member ascribes to the traditional historicist approach, ......
If you had been, please don't confuse my use of this traditional approach, with some modern day Roman church demonizing, abuse of it, as well as abuse of the day-year "language" of prophecy.
...... and the bookshelves in my home's study are awash in Puritan perspective that comes from this viewpoint.
It would be a shame if you had only exposed yourself to the Reformers and Puritans application of this uniform
approach to all
Bible prophecy, particularly since I don't believe we had yet entered what Daniel's prophecy refers to as the "time of the end". However I do believe we have indeed entered that time, as mathematical confirmation would seem to support.http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/'a-time-times-and-an-half'-and-the-'time-of-the-end'/
However, I would NOT say that this was the UNIVERSAL approach from early Christianity forward.
The available evidence suggests it was the dominant
approach throughout the first 1800-1900 years of the Christian era. Would it really be such a surprise to find that the church took a uniform
approach to all
The only time I recall applying the term "universal" was in regard to universal Christian core doctrine
regarding the resurrection of the dead and the 2nd Coming of Christ as being yet unfulfilled, when I directed it toward preterists that proclaim the resurrection of the dead is past already, that scripture informs us will eat at the body of Christ as gangrene and overthrow the faith of some. Your OP does not suggest you are in that full or "hyper" preterist camp.http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/preterist-forum/full-preterism-on-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/
You yourself may not be interested in pursuing this suggestion, but for anyone else, there is a 2012 book by Francis X. Gumerlock, a Latin scholar and historical theologian, titled "Revelation and the First Century - Preterist interpretations of the Apocalypse in early Christianity".
Liberal university bred supersessionists are a dime a dozen. I recommend Christians first begin by comparing the fruit of the Zionist tree, to that of the anti-Zionist tree.
That is groups that believe that the restoration of Jews to their land is of the Lord along with others that support the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State. As compared to Christian groups that believe God was done with any further plan for Jews - indeed when pressed will often admit they believe the restoration of Jews to their land is of Satan - along with others who fruit the anti-Zionist tree.
Then try to discern the differences between institutional churches in the two camps, regarding how they treat church ordinances, what kind of people they ordain, and where their focus is.
Is it a mere coincidence that the Washington National Cathedral hosts Islamic worship services during this prophesied "falling away" while Presbyterian church leaders ".....treasure the precious words of Hezbollah and your expression of goodwill toward the American people."? Those Presbyterian church "leaders" also being liberal university indoctrinated-now-teaching supersessionists.
Let alone proposing boycotts of Israel and their exports, while giving a free pass to Israel's neighbors who murder their own citizens for "apostasy" (leaving Islam) and even for the "crime" of "blasphemy" by State statute. All the while those supersessionist institutions that propose the boycotts insist it has nothing at all to do with antisemitism.
As you can tell by the name, this book offers substantial evidence of preteristic belief from the early days of the church and onward. In other words, Preterism was around before there was a modern-day label to apply to it.
The ECFs alluded to futurism as well. That didn't make it the dominant view of the church over its first 1800 years either. We can also find the germ of Marianism in the ECFs.
As far as my attitude toward traditional teaching of the church goes, I do not despise these early divines who labored so intently to pass their wisdom and knowledge, as best they understood it, to the later generations. I am standing on their shoulders as I type these posts from a different perspective, and well I know it.
While I am standing on the shoulders of those great men of God of the Reformation, in their all-but-forgotten approach, who rescued the ecclesia from the dead formalism of the institutional church.
But honestly, do you think these gentlemen from earlier centuries would really resent it if the children of the faith that followed them discovered new insights that proved them to be in error?
Since I don't believe we fully entered into what Daniel's prophecy refers to as the "time of the end", or that the "times of the gentiles" in Jerusalem were fulfilled, until 1967 when Jews regained control, I obviously don't think they would resent it. Web search - mathematical precision of prophecy
I would suggest that your view is the one most lacking in "new insights". Particularly since it most likely prevents you from progressing in history beyond the early 19th century, when the prophecies that regard the restoration of Jews to their land, began to be fulfilled.
Do we ourselves resent it if our children succeed in life, better than we were able to do?
I resent that the eschatologies popularized in the 20th century have contributed to blinding them to truth, while so many parents teach their children that Islam is just another Abrahamic religion, (as they are taught even by some "churches"), which misguides their children's paths in regard to the world in which they wish to succeed.
Is that not the purpose of parenthood, for "parents to lay up for the children"?
So how many parents are teaching their children that 1.5 billion people in the world today - that is 1/4 of mankind - must deny and blaspheme the Son of God, and reject His crucifixion and thus the saving grace of His shed blood, as articles of their faith
in THE false prophet Muhammad alone? Don't you think that might help our kids understand why Muhammad's orthodox followers are slaughtering and persecuting God's people all around the world, and that they began it about 1400 years ago?
But parents don't teach that do they. Because their churches don't teach that do they. Does the university trained supersessionist, that you recommend reading, mention even a peep about it? Indeed probably not one in 1000 Christians is even aware of it, I would suggest, because the church was blinded by the 20th century popularized eschatologies of preterism and futurism as to what the prophesied "beast" of Revelation 13 and final foe of God's people is all about.http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1054999136/#msg1054999136
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Isn't "the path of the just as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day"? This is step-by-step "GROWING in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ". It is the "Berean" principle at work.
Would clutching a doctrine with both fists while pouring forth unctuous platitudes about a "Berean principle" really qualify as such? Why don't you try setting aside your doctrine for a moment - put that inverted pyramid of pile-on presumption completely out of your mind - long enough to explore this third entire approach to prophecy as revealed in this "time of the end" now that Daniel's book has been unsealed through fulfillment of prophecy, by exploring one brick by brick empirical argument that suggests that unsealing. Try reading The False Prophet by Ellis Skolfield. It's available free online. But if you are going to try to wring each chapter through the filter of your preconceived preterist notions, as you proceed through this entire approach to prophecy, you may as well not even begin.
Since Jesus IS truth, I believe the best way we can serve Him is to make every effort to seek out the truth regardless of how contrary it may seem to what we have been taught, rather than obstinately clinging to a doctrine we have been taught that we ourselves recognize is full of warts.
The trouble with trying to fit Islam or the papacy inside the bookends of Revelation's self-imposed time limitations is that the language of imminence and near-fulfillment to that first century must be swept under the rug and totally ignored.
We would agree on many of the verses to which you allude as regards the kingdom of Jesus Christ, since I am amillennial, as available evidence also suggests was the dominant millennial view of the church for the first 1800 years.
I'm not unfamiliar with the touchstones of preterism, but scripture wasn't written in English. So for example the Greek word "houtos" translated as "this" that preterists like to stick futurists in the eye with, for some reason at the same time fail to inform them, that it is also translated as "the same" on 28 other occasions in the KJV. Let alone their so often "sweeping under the rug" metaphorical use of the term "generation", to pound on Jews, in their efforts to advance replacement theology.
This same imminent language is in every book in the NT, with the exception of Philemon, and perhaps one other epistle. To ignore it is to turn Revelation into a fill-in-the-blank exercise, using your favorite antichrist personality of choice.Are you suggesting that preterists don't often fill in that blank with Nero? What is your favored choice if you believe it to be fulfilled?
If you were accusing me of that, while I understand there has been no shortage of what you describe ever since the ECFs, I don't believe that any
of the 4 verses that contain the term support an individual at all but rather a spirit and any and every individual
or spirit that exhibits it.http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/who-is-the-antichrist-our-father-does-not-leave-us-guessing
Revelation is not a buffet where I can pick and choose what I want to eat.
I couldn't agree more. So please explain what/who you believe the "beast" of Revelation 13 is/was, and what it/he has to do with a leopard, bear and lion?http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1054999136/#msg1054999136