Author Topic: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates  (Read 8221 times)

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Offline Linker

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The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« on: January 04, 2012, 12:44:40 PM »
Not one ounce of any of these things have already taken place in the past as the preterist declares

If you are a preterist I want a verse by verse explanation of each and the proof by accurate historical records that what you say happened in 70 A.D. is valid

If no response, I will show how each event has never taken place in the past for the benefit of the forum

Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 12:53:46 PM by Linker »

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 12:47:17 PM »
Lookin forward to every nation on earth going to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles!


EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 01:06:49 PM »
Linker,

You will not answer any of our questions directed to you and you ignore all of our responses.  But most importantly, you do not accept Scripture for answers to questions because your traditions hold more value than the biblical text.

Perhaps you remember Raggthyme's response of how Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled in John 19:37.  The context is Calvary.  You ignored it.

Since you demand physical proof for your answer I can truthfully say that I cannot provide it.  Your theology and thinking is so similar to the Pharisees.  They too wanted physical proof and answers.  They wanted a physical king to rule on a physical throne to release them from their present physical bondage to the Romans.  Jesus came to provide neither.  He was judged a false prophet and put to death at the advice  and counsel of these same Pharisees.

Jesus' kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20-21).  Your view of Jesus' kingdom does.

But have a nice day anyway...




Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 01:09:24 PM »
One preterist bites the dust

I will wait for any others to respond .... for a while

Then I will proceed with this thread

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 01:12:25 PM »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 01:12:25 PM »



Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 01:17:08 PM »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 01:28:34 PM »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.   
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:   
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.   
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.   
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.   
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!





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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 01:45:10 PM »
I want a verse by verse accounting of the preterist view of Zechariah 14 Goodie

.... your slider answer does not qualify

I will wait for any others to give a qualified answer

Then I will will show how the preterist is totally off course

And then I intend to present several other prophets including the Lord on the same subject and how all are congruent with events that simply did not take place in the past and are reserved for the future at the end of this present age
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 07:44:41 AM by Linker »

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2012, 01:48:26 PM »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.   
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:   
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.   
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.   
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.   
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!






There are many prophecies that have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. The near and partial fulfillment was seen at Calvary, but the far fulfillment and ultimate one is yet to come. You can't see it because preterism has blinded you to see beyond the end of your nose, prophetically.

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 02:00:04 PM »
"While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place."

Absolutely true [Zechariah 12:1-10; Revelation 1:7]

Let's see if any preterist on the forum will address my challenge of the OP ..... I doubt that any will, but if they do their responses will be something like Goodie's which is not acceptable .... I want a verse by verse rendering according to preterism

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 02:04:34 PM »
"While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place."

Absolutely true [Zechariah 12:1-10; Revelation 1:7]

Let's see if any preterist on the forum will address my challenge of the OP ..... I doubt that any will, but if they do their responses will be something like Goodie's which is not acceptable .... I want a verse by verse rendering according to preterism

They won't. They just like to hear themselves talk. They are the bane of any Christian forum.

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 02:09:53 PM »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.   
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:   
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.   
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.   
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.   
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!


There are many prophecies that have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. The near and partial fulfillment was seen at Calvary, but the far fulfillment and ultimate one is yet to come. You can't see it because preterism has blinded you to see beyond the end of your nose, prophetically.

Can you quote me Scripture that says anything about YOUR near and partial fulfillment at Calvary but the far fulfillment is yet to come?

No, you can not.  It is your paradigm that believes these things.  If John says it was fulfilled and quotes Zechariah to say so, then it was fulfilled.  You say it was not.  I am going to stick with John.  I have tried to convince you with pure Scripture but you will not have anything to do with it.  You have your traditions and I used to have mine too because they were the same ones.  I have moved on to accept what Scripture says about itself.  You haven't.

No sense wasting any more time with indviduals who do not accept Scripture.  Lurkers beware!

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 02:12:10 PM »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.  
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:  
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.  
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.  
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.  
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!


There are many prophecies that have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. The near and partial fulfillment was seen at Calvary, but the far fulfillment and ultimate one is yet to come. You can't see it because preterism has blinded you to see beyond the end of your nose, prophetically.

Can you quote me Scripture that says anything about YOUR near and partial fulfillment at Calvary but the far fulfillment is yet to come?

No, you can not.  It is your paradigm that believes these things.  If John says it was fulfilled and quotes Zechariah to say so, then it was fulfilled.  You say it was not.  I am going to stick with John.  I have tried to convince you with pure Scripture but you will not have anything to do with it.  You have your traditions and I used to have mine too because they were the same ones.  I have moved on to accept what Scripture says about itself.  You haven't.

No sense wasting any more time with indviduals who do not accept Scripture.  Lurkers beware!

You should talk.

Scripture is not to be taken and twisted as the preterist does. I love the word of God and I have no trouble understanding it by the power of the Holy Spirit in me who helps me.

Please, by all means, don't waste your time here any longer. I too am concerned for the lurker. Many could be confused and misled by your brand of theology, which is why many here will consistently oppose it for the sake of Jesus Christ and his word of Truth.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:21:40 PM by Merryone »

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 02:31:30 PM »
We will continue with the OP request to allow other preterists to meet the challange for awhile ..... then I will proceed to destroy the preterist ruse with scripture


Online Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 02:48:03 PM »
May the Farce be with you Link.