Author Topic: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates  (Read 8693 times)

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Offline Linker

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The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 13:44:40 »
Not one ounce of any of these things have already taken place in the past as the preterist declares

If you are a preterist I want a verse by verse explanation of each and the proof by accurate historical records that what you say happened in 70 A.D. is valid

If no response, I will show how each event has never taken place in the past for the benefit of the forum

Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

« Last Edit: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 13:53:46 by Linker »

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #1 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 13:47:17 »
Lookin forward to every nation on earth going to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles!


EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:06:49 »
Linker,

You will not answer any of our questions directed to you and you ignore all of our responses.  But most importantly, you do not accept Scripture for answers to questions because your traditions hold more value than the biblical text.

Perhaps you remember Raggthyme's response of how Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled in John 19:37.  The context is Calvary.  You ignored it.

Since you demand physical proof for your answer I can truthfully say that I cannot provide it.  Your theology and thinking is so similar to the Pharisees.  They too wanted physical proof and answers.  They wanted a physical king to rule on a physical throne to release them from their present physical bondage to the Romans.  Jesus came to provide neither.  He was judged a false prophet and put to death at the advice  and counsel of these same Pharisees.

Jesus' kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20-21).  Your view of Jesus' kingdom does.

But have a nice day anyway...




Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:09:24 »
One preterist bites the dust

I will wait for any others to respond .... for a while

Then I will proceed with this thread

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #4 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:12:25 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #4 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:12:25 »



Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #5 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:17:08 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #6 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:28:34 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.   
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:   
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.   
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.   
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.   
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!





Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #7 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:45:10 »
I want a verse by verse accounting of the preterist view of Zechariah 14 Goodie

.... your slider answer does not qualify

I will wait for any others to give a qualified answer

Then I will will show how the preterist is totally off course

And then I intend to present several other prophets including the Lord on the same subject and how all are congruent with events that simply did not take place in the past and are reserved for the future at the end of this present age
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 01, 2012 - 08:44:41 by Linker »

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #8 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 14:48:26 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.   
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:   
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.   
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.   
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.   
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!






There are many prophecies that have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. The near and partial fulfillment was seen at Calvary, but the far fulfillment and ultimate one is yet to come. You can't see it because preterism has blinded you to see beyond the end of your nose, prophetically.

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #9 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:00:04 »
"While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place."

Absolutely true [Zechariah 12:1-10; Revelation 1:7]

Let's see if any preterist on the forum will address my challenge of the OP ..... I doubt that any will, but if they do their responses will be something like Goodie's which is not acceptable .... I want a verse by verse rendering according to preterism

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #10 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:04:34 »
"While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place."

Absolutely true [Zechariah 12:1-10; Revelation 1:7]

Let's see if any preterist on the forum will address my challenge of the OP ..... I doubt that any will, but if they do their responses will be something like Goodie's which is not acceptable .... I want a verse by verse rendering according to preterism

They won't. They just like to hear themselves talk. They are the bane of any Christian forum.

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #11 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:09:53 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.   
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:   
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.   
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.   
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.   
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!


There are many prophecies that have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. The near and partial fulfillment was seen at Calvary, but the far fulfillment and ultimate one is yet to come. You can't see it because preterism has blinded you to see beyond the end of your nose, prophetically.

Can you quote me Scripture that says anything about YOUR near and partial fulfillment at Calvary but the far fulfillment is yet to come?

No, you can not.  It is your paradigm that believes these things.  If John says it was fulfilled and quotes Zechariah to say so, then it was fulfilled.  You say it was not.  I am going to stick with John.  I have tried to convince you with pure Scripture but you will not have anything to do with it.  You have your traditions and I used to have mine too because they were the same ones.  I have moved on to accept what Scripture says about itself.  You haven't.

No sense wasting any more time with indviduals who do not accept Scripture.  Lurkers beware!

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #12 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:12:10 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.

SEE!

Their traditions have over-ruled the Word of God!

John 19:37 VERY CLEARLY states that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled AT CALVARY.

Here, let me quote it in full...maybe that will help your belief.  Allow me to place the verse WITHIN ITS CONTEXT OF CALVARY so that you will not miss it:

John 19:32-37 - Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.  
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:  
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.  
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.  
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.  
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 

Unless you have another Old Testament Scripture that states what John 19:37 states, then you are bound by Scripture to accept how it is applied to Zechariah 12:10 - and that is to Calvary!!!!  But I have a funny (yet sad) feeling that your tradition is still going to make this Word of God void as well...even in the face of clear Scripture!


There are many prophecies that have a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment. The near and partial fulfillment was seen at Calvary, but the far fulfillment and ultimate one is yet to come. You can't see it because preterism has blinded you to see beyond the end of your nose, prophetically.

Can you quote me Scripture that says anything about YOUR near and partial fulfillment at Calvary but the far fulfillment is yet to come?

No, you can not.  It is your paradigm that believes these things.  If John says it was fulfilled and quotes Zechariah to say so, then it was fulfilled.  You say it was not.  I am going to stick with John.  I have tried to convince you with pure Scripture but you will not have anything to do with it.  You have your traditions and I used to have mine too because they were the same ones.  I have moved on to accept what Scripture says about itself.  You haven't.

No sense wasting any more time with indviduals who do not accept Scripture.  Lurkers beware!

You should talk.

Scripture is not to be taken and twisted as the preterist does. I love the word of God and I have no trouble understanding it by the power of the Holy Spirit in me who helps me.

Please, by all means, don't waste your time here any longer. I too am concerned for the lurker. Many could be confused and misled by your brand of theology, which is why many here will consistently oppose it for the sake of Jesus Christ and his word of Truth.
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:21:40 by Merryone »

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #13 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:31:30 »
We will continue with the OP request to allow other preterists to meet the challange for awhile ..... then I will proceed to destroy the preterist ruse with scripture


Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #14 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:48:03 »
May the Farce be with you Link.

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 15:52:31 »
From your picture it looks like the "farce" is hanging out of your mouth

Trolls aren't allowed on this thread buster


Offline John S

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #16 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 16:49:48 »
I was under the impression that there was a "prophet" who the preterists hated.
I'm not a preterist but I wanted to know who this "prophet" was.

Apparently, sadly, the OP believes that he is this "prophet".

Are people on this site allowed to call themselves "prophets"? I hope not.

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #17 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 16:56:30 »
I was under the impression that there was a "prophet" who the preterists hated.
I'm not a preterist but I wanted to know who this "prophet" was.

Apparently, sadly, the OP believes that he is this "prophet".

Are people on this site allowed to call themselves "prophets"? I hope not.

The OP is not saying that he is a prophet.

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #18 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 17:02:15 »
"I was under the impression that there was a "prophet" who the preterists hated.
I'm not a preterist but I wanted to know who this "prophet" was.

Apparently, sadly, the OP believes that he is this "prophet"


Apparently you don't read well dude .... can you say "Zechariah"?

If you have a Bible I would suggest that you have some one read Zechariah 14 for you ..... can you do this?

I don't like trolls buddy .... so if you cannot address the thread with competence you don't qualify



Lehigh

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #19 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 17:45:07 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

EdwardGoodie,

Just ignore these misguided souls when they start threads with instigating titles.
I'll just agree with you and put the interpretation right here right now. And they can just talk amongst themselves. 
"We" love all the prophets, especially when we understand their symbolic language:
Preterist.org:
Zechariah 14:14-21 says the feast of tabernacles would be celebrated after the destruction of Jerusalem!!! Does this mean we are to keep this feast today?

Answer: As it is impossible for all nations literally to come to Jerusalem once a year, to keep a feast, it is evident that a figurative meaning must here be applied. Gospel worship is represented by the keeping of the feast of tabernacles. Verses 16-21 mean that those who do not worship God shall not have his blessing. It is a sin that is its own punishment; those who forsake the duty, forfeit the privilege of communion with God.



Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #20 on: Wed Jan 04, 2012 - 18:07:14 »
"Just ignore these misguided souls when they start threads with instigating titles"

Goodie does not need advice to ignore ..... he is a master at it

But this thread he will not engage with his rendition of each verse in Zechariah 14

He knows that if he does he will get waxed

..... and so would you Ms Le

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #21 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 05:46:17 »
10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.
And the physical return of Jesus to earth will not occur until this happens.

Offline Sinead

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #22 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 05:57:23 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

EdwardGoodie,

Just ignore these misguided souls when they start threads with instigating titles.
I'll just agree with you and put the interpretation right here right now. And they can just talk amongst themselves. 
"We" love all the prophets, especially when we understand their symbolic language:
Preterist.org:
Zechariah 14:14-21 says the feast of tabernacles would be celebrated after the destruction of Jerusalem!!! Does this mean we are to keep this feast today?

Answer: As it is impossible for all nations literally to come to Jerusalem once a year, to keep a feast, it is evident that a figurative meaning must here be applied. Gospel worship is represented by the keeping of the feast of tabernacles. Verses 16-21 mean that those who do not worship God shall not have his blessing. It is a sin that is its own punishment; those who forsake the duty, forfeit the privilege of communion with God.




I am curious about one thing - you mentioned in a different thread that many forums have a preterist outlook (correct me If I am wrong) if this is true - howcome you don't go there? Of course you can go wherever you want to but if it were me I would prefer to talk to those with the same outlook as myself, rather than those who oppose it.

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #23 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 07:11:20 »
10 “Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him as for a firstborn son who has died. Zech 12:10

While it is prophetic concerning the piercing of our Lord Jesus, the entire prophetic passage is not about Calvary. when He comes again is when Israel will truly mourn---for having ever rejected their Messiah in the first place.
And the physical return of Jesus to earth will not occur until this happens.

No. This doesn't happen until they see Jesus Christ returning.


Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven. And everyone will see him— even those who pierced him. And all the nations of the world will mourn for him. Yes! Amen!  Revelation 1:7

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #24 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 09:25:31 »
Not one ounce of any of these things have already taken place in the past as the preterist declares

If you are a preterist I want a verse by verse explanation of each and the proof by accurate historical records that what you say happened in 70 A.D. is valid

If no response, I will show how each event has never taken place in the past for the benefit of the forum

Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.




Linker,

Age is having an effect on your memory. I have already addressed these things in my "Preterists Believe the Threats of Prophecy" thread. I specifically gave you Zechariah 1:1 inwhich the Lord said,

"Return to Me and I will return to you."

This is the interpretive guide to Zechariah. The coming of Jehovah and all related events in Zechariah 14 were conditional. Those things would have been fulfilled IF.... We know that Israel did not fulfill the "IF" and so God could not fullfill the promises.

Quote
6As this potter am I not able to do to you? O house of Israel, an affirmation of Jehovah. Lo, as clay in the hand of the potter, So [are] ye in My hand, O house of Israel.

 7The moment I speak concerning a nation, And concerning a kingdom, To pluck up and to break down, and to destroy,

 8And that nation hath turned from its evil, Because I have spoken against it, Then I have repented of the evil that I thought to do to it.

 9And the moment I speak concerning a nation, And concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant,

 10And it hath done the evil thing in Mine eyes, So as not to hearken to My voice, Then I have repented of the good That I have spoken of doing to it.


God CLEARLY said that He would return to Israel if they returned to Him. They did not return to Him. God CLEARLY said that if Israel did evil that He would "REPENT" of the good promises. They did evil by crucifying His Son and so He took the kingdom away from them. Jesus said so.

After 40 years of studying the scriptures you have not found truth. You should stop embarassing yourself!

thinker






Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #25 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 09:31:26 »
Clearly, preterists do not believe the threats of prophecy.


1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
2 Peter 2:1-3

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #26 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 09:35:23 »
Clearly, preterists do not believe the threats of prophecy.


1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
2 Peter 2:1-3



Lively,

First, are you going to continue to dodge Zechariah 1:1 and Jeremiah 18:6-10?

Second, Preterists affirm that the false teachers of Peter's day were destroyed. Show where we have denied it.

thinker


Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #27 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 09:38:20 »
False teachers of our day will be destroyed, too. That's a promise.

Why do you ignore Jeremiah 31?

 31 “The day is coming,

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #28 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 10:07:09 »
Merryone said:
Quote
False teachers of our day will be destroyed, too. That's a promise.


False teachers of our day will be destroyed immediately uopn their deaths. Before Christ came in ad70 the false teachers slept in hades. After Christ returned they were awakened to destruction. But post ad70 they are destroyed immediately upon death.

Note that in Revelation 22 there are still false teachers lurking outside the city (the Bride). It says that they WILL have will their part in the lake of fire with the others (22:14-15).

The promise was that all would be destroyed eventually. Most were destroyed in ad70. But many were carried over and were destroyed afterwards when they died. Those of our day will be destroyed when they die too.

thinker




daq

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #29 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 10:10:37 »
Clearly, preterists do not believe the threats of prophecy.


1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
2 Peter 2:1-3


Lively,

Yea, that is no surprise: even if not the same person then certainly the same spirit. Much like "Linker" and old "Truth Files" calling everyone and everything that disagrees a "hobgoblin" ~ spirits of a feather flock together.  ::crackup::

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #30 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 10:20:10 »
Merryone said:
Quote
False teachers of our day will be destroyed, too. That's a promise.


False teachers of our day will be destroyed immediately uopn their deaths. Before Christ came in ad70 the false teachers slept in hades. After Christ returned they were awakened to destruction. But post ad70 they are destroyed immediately upon death.

Note that in Revelation 22 there are still false teachers lurking outside the city (the Bride). It says that they WILL have will their part in the lake of fire with the others (22:14-15).

The promise was that all would be destroyed eventually. Most were destroyed in ad70. But many were carried over and were destroyed afterwards when they died. Those of our day will be destroyed when they die too.

thinker






Wrong. Christ is still waiting for his Father to send him for his Bride. The destruction of false teachers---preterists as an example---will take place on Judgment Day.

We should be discussing the prophet that God hates--namely, the false teacher. God hates wickedness in all its forms.



Whoever abandons the right path will be severely disciplined;
      whoever hates correction will die.
Proverbs 15:10
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 10:28:44 by Merryone »

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #31 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:17:28 »
Merryone said:
Quote
False teachers of our day will be destroyed, too. That's a promise.


False teachers of our day will be destroyed immediately uopn their deaths. Before Christ came in ad70 the false teachers slept in hades. After Christ returned they were awakened to destruction. But post ad70 they are destroyed immediately upon death.

Note that in Revelation 22 there are still false teachers lurking outside the city (the Bride). It says that they WILL have will their part in the lake of fire with the others (22:14-15).

The promise was that all would be destroyed eventually. Most were destroyed in ad70. But many were carried over and were destroyed afterwards when they died. Those of our day will be destroyed when they die too.

thinker




Wrong. Christ is still waiting for his Father to send him for his Bride. The destruction of false teachers---preterists as an example---will take place on Judgment Day.

We should be discussing the prophet that God hates--namely, the false teacher. God hates wickedness in all its forms.



Whoever abandons the right path will be severely disciplined;
      whoever hates correction will die.
Proverbs 15:10


Revelation 22 CLEARLY says that there are wicked people lurking outside the gates of the city and that they will have their part in the lake of fire. This is AFTER the Lord has come.

So whether the Lord's coming is past or future makes no difference. Sinners are present on the new earth. Isaiah 65 agrees (vss. 17-20).

Most of the wicked of Israel were destroyed in ad70. Some were carried over but were "separated" from the righteous just as Jesus said. Only the saved can enter into the Bride now. The saved who now enter the Bride are NOT the Bride. Only the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are written upon the Bride. Only Israel can be the Bride just as in the old Testament.

You are NOT of the Bride! You are of her offspring. The marriage has been consummated. Christ's Bride is in heaven. It is silly to say that it would take thousands of years to consummate a marriage. It goes against all common sense.

You have been taught myths Lively! Peter said that the heavens and the earth would be destroyed as the heavens and earth in Noah's day were destroyed. The heavens and the earth in Noah's day are still here! It is the old order of things that has passed away. The earth has been made "new" in the same way the man in Christ is made "new."

Sin will ALWAYS be present except in heaven.

thinker




Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #32 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:20:19 »
From your picture it looks like the "farce" is hanging out of your mouth

Trolls aren't allowed on this thread buster


I ain't no troll, BUSTER. They call me Jaime the MODERATOR. You need to lighten up dude. You are way too caught up with yourself.

Newbie100

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #33 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:20:49 »
False teachers of our day will be destroyed, too. That's a promise.

Why do you ignore Jeremiah 31?

 31 “The day is coming,

daq

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #34 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:23:27 »
Not one ounce of any of these things have already taken place in the past as the preterist declares

If you are a preterist I want a verse by verse explanation of each and the proof by accurate historical records that what you say happened in 70 A.D. is valid

If no response, I will show how each event has never taken place in the past for the benefit of the forum

Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.



How are you going to prove something did not happen if it did not happen? Lack of evidence is no proof of anything. And how can you be sure you are not effectively attempting to war against YHWH? After all YHWH is Spirit and Yeshua his Son is the express image according to Scripture. Also, as stated many times, but again, the flesh profits nothing, his kingdom is not of this world, the kingdom of YHWH cometh not with observation, AND ALL THINGS POINT TO CHRIST. To take away from what things Yeshua has accomplished and fulfilled in his glorious ministry and from the glorious, triumphant, victory at the Cross, is to effectively war against not only the Son but also the Father who sent him.

John 4:24 KJV
24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Nahum 1:1-3
1. The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2. 'El is jealous, and YHWH revengeth; YHWH revengeth, and is furious; YHWH shall take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3. YHWH is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: YHWH hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

Zechariah 14:3-4
3. Then shall YHWH go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4. And his feet shall stand-[station] in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Luke 9:27-35 KJV
27. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28. And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31. Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32. But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33. And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

The clouds are the dust of His feet ...
 ::nodding::
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:30:41 by daq »