Author Topic: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates  (Read 9508 times)

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Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #35 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:31:18 »
Merryone said:
Quote
False teachers of our day will be destroyed, too. That's a promise.

False teachers of our day will be destroyed immediately uopn their deaths. Before Christ came in ad70 the false teachers slept in hades. After Christ returned they were awakened to destruction. But post ad70 they are destroyed immediately upon death.

Note that in Revelation 22 there are still false teachers lurking outside the city (the Bride). It says that they WILL have will their part in the lake of fire with the others (22:14-15).

The promise was that all would be destroyed eventually. Most were destroyed in ad70. But many were carried over and were destroyed afterwards when they died. Those of our day will be destroyed when they die too.

thinker



Wrong. Christ is still waiting for his Father to send him for his Bride. The destruction of false teachers---preterists as an example---will take place on Judgment Day.

We should be discussing the prophet that God hates--namely, the false teacher. God hates wickedness in all its forms.



Whoever abandons the right path will be severely disciplined;
      whoever hates correction will die.
Proverbs 15:10

Revelation 22 CLEARLY says that there are wicked people lurking outside the gates of the city and that they will have their part in the lake of fire. This is AFTER the Lord has come.

Yes, at least a millennium after Jesus has come and after final Judgment.

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So whether the Lord's coming is past or future makes no difference. Sinners are present on the new earth. Isaiah 65 agrees (vss. 17-20).

Only during the Millennium.

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Most of the wicked of Israel were destroyed in ad70. Some were carried over but were "separated" from the righteous just as Jesus said. Only the saved can enter into the Bride now. The saved who now enter the Bride are NOT the Bride. Only the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are written upon the Bride. Only Israel can be the Bride just as in the old Testament.

That's rubbish.

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You are NOT of the Bride! You are of her offspring. The marriage has been consummated. Christ's Bride is in heaven. It is silly to say that it would take thousands of years to consummate a marriage. It goes against all common sense.

Yes, as a follower of Christ and part of the Church, I am of the Bride of Christ. I've got my lamp lit and mu extra oil waiting!

Quote
You have been taught myths Lively! Peter said that the heavens and the earth would be destroyed as the heavens and earth in Noah's day were destroyed. The heavens and the earth in Noah's day are still here! It is the old order of things that has passed away. The earth has been made "new" in the same way the man in Christ is made "new."

I have never been taught a myth yet, and because I have the Holy Ghost, I can recognize a false teaching by its smell a mile away. Preterism REEKS.

The earth is still as it always was since Jesus ascended. You are preaching a perversion. Those who are truly Christ's reject it.

Quote
Sin will ALWAYS be present except in heaven.

Heaven will be the New Earth. Sin will be banished forever.


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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #35 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:31:18 »

Newbie100

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #36 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:31:30 »
Hi daq,

I never realized that the LORD from Zechariah 14:3 was speaking of Jehovah God.  It was always taught to me that it was Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ...

That changes some stuff for me...thanks!

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #37 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:32:15 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #38 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:35:25 »
Hi daq,

I never realized that the LORD from Zechariah 14:3 was speaking of Jehovah God.  It was always taught to me that it was Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ...

That changes some stuff for me...thanks!

It is Jesus who will be standing on that Mount of Olives. The Lord is Jesus the Messiah, who is also God.

Newbie100

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #39 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:40:40 »

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #39 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 12:40:40 »



thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #40 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:05:13 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.


So you deny the Trinity then? The name Jehovah does NOT always refer to Jesus. The name Jehovah is NOT Jesus in Zechariah 14 for in 13:7 we see that He is distinct from Jehovah. That distinction is kept throughout Zechariah.

To say that the name Jehovah always refers to Jesus is to deny the Trinity.

thinker


Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #41 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:10:14 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.

Amen!

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #42 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:11:42 »
Hi daq,

I never realized that the LORD from Zechariah 14:3 was speaking of Jehovah God.  It was always taught to me that it was Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ...

That changes some stuff for me...thanks!


It is Jesus who will be standing on that Mount of Olives. The Lord is Jesus the Messiah, who is also God.


First, it is NOT Jesus who is standing on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah. It is Jehovah who is standing on the MT of Olives. Jesus is separate from Jehovah in 13:7 and is kept separate throughout the book of Zechariah.

Second, the prophecy of Jehovah's coming was conditional upon Israel returning to Jehovah (1:1). Israel did NOT meet the condition. Therefore, Jehovah will NEVER come to them. He destroyed their house in ad70 instead.

thinker


Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #43 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:14:08 »
Hi daq,

I never realized that the LORD from Zechariah 14:3 was speaking of Jehovah God.  It was always taught to me that it was Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ...

That changes some stuff for me...thanks!

It is Jesus who will be standing on that Mount of Olives. The Lord is Jesus the Messiah, who is also God.

First, it is NOT Jesus who is standing on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah. It is Jehovah who is standing on the MT of Olives. Jesus is separate from Jehovah in 13:7 and is kept separate throughout the book of Zechariah.

Second, the prophecy of Jehovah's coming was conditional upon Israel returning to Jehovah (1:1). Israel did NOT meet the condition. Therefore, Jehovah will NEVER come to them. He destroyed their house in ad70 instead.

thinker


No, it is Jesus.

God still has great plans for Israel. Watch and see.

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #44 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:14:31 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.


Amen!


Isaiah said,

"It pleased Jehovah to bruise Him" (Jesus). Is Jesus Jehovah in this verse? Is it true that the name Jehovah ALWAYS applies to Him?

thinker




Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #45 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:16:17 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.

Amen!

Isaiah said,

"It pleased Jehovah to bruise Him" (Jesus). Is Jesus Jehovah in this verse? Is it true that the name Jehovah ALWAYS applies to Him?

thinker


You have to take the context into consideration, don't you? Sometimes its the Father, and others, it's the Son.

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #46 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:17:32 »
Hi daq,

I never realized that the LORD from Zechariah 14:3 was speaking of Jehovah God.  It was always taught to me that it was Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ...

That changes some stuff for me...thanks!


It is Jesus who will be standing on that Mount of Olives. The Lord is Jesus the Messiah, who is also God.


First, it is NOT Jesus who is standing on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah. It is Jehovah who is standing on the MT of Olives. Jesus is separate from Jehovah in 13:7 and is kept separate throughout the book of Zechariah.

Second, the prophecy of Jehovah's coming was conditional upon Israel returning to Jehovah (1:1). Israel did NOT meet the condition. Therefore, Jehovah will NEVER come to them. He destroyed their house in ad70 instead.

thinker



No, it is Jesus.


Prove it! Jehovah called Jesus "My Shepherd" in 13:7. Isaiah said, "It pleased Jehovah to bruise Him (Jesus). Is Jesus Jehovah in this statement?

thinker




thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #47 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:22:01 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.

Amen!

Isaiah said,

"It pleased Jehovah to bruise Him" (Jesus). Is Jesus Jehovah in this verse? Is it true that the name Jehovah ALWAYS applies to Him?

thinker



You have to take the context into consideration, don't you? Sometimes its the Father, and others, it's the Son.

You're right about context. In 13:7 Jehovah and Jesus are NOT the same person. Therefore, Jehovah and NOT Jesus was to stand on the Mt. of Olives. It is good that you admitted to context being the determining factor. But you shot yourself in the foot by your admission.

thinker



Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #48 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:48:33 »
Jehovah:
"I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."
Isaiah 45:23

Jesus:
"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Phil. 2:10-11

Jehovah:
"For the Lord your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality, nor take a bribe."
Deut. 10:17

Jesus:
"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."
Rev. 17:14

Jehovah:
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me."
Isaiah 44:6

Jesus:
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev. 22:12-13

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #49 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 14:50:55 »
Jesus IS Jehovah. He is the I AM that spoke to Moses.

Amen!

Isaiah said,

"It pleased Jehovah to bruise Him" (Jesus). Is Jesus Jehovah in this verse? Is it true that the name Jehovah ALWAYS applies to Him?

thinker



You have to take the context into consideration, don't you? Sometimes its the Father, and others, it's the Son.

You're right about context. In 13:7 Jehovah and Jesus are NOT the same person. Therefore, Jehovah and NOT Jesus was to stand on the Mt. of Olives. It is good that you admitted to context being the determining factor. But you shot yourself in the foot by your admission.

thinker




Jesus will stand upon the Mount of Olives.


Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #50 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 16:27:03 »
The very image of the invisible God.

Lehigh

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #51 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 18:58:38 »
See, he still won't address the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10...

EdwardGoodie,

Just ignore these misguided souls when they start threads with instigating titles.
I'll just agree with you and put the interpretation right here right now. And they can just talk amongst themselves. 
"We" love all the prophets, especially when we understand their symbolic language:
Preterist.org:
Zechariah 14:14-21 says the feast of tabernacles would be celebrated after the destruction of Jerusalem!!! Does this mean we are to keep this feast today?

Answer: As it is impossible for all nations literally to come to Jerusalem once a year, to keep a feast, it is evident that a figurative meaning must here be applied. Gospel worship is represented by the keeping of the feast of tabernacles. Verses 16-21 mean that those who do not worship God shall not have his blessing. It is a sin that is its own punishment; those who forsake the duty, forfeit the privilege of communion with God.




I am curious about one thing - you mentioned in a different thread that many forums have a preterist outlook (correct me If I am wrong) if this is true - howcome you don't go there? Of course you can go wherever you want to but if it were me I would prefer to talk to those with the same outlook as myself, rather than those who oppose it.

Why not share on Christian forums and hear others reasons for their beliefs?
You didn't have to post in any of the threads started by preterists, so why did you venture off from your comfortable "futuristic eschatology" threads if not for trying to understand something posted?
And I do attend other forums. I do not appreciate any Christian forum that is so bigoted that their pocketbook and ego feels threatened (or something like that) that they can't tolerate someone not crooking their neck to literally see Christ flying down from the clouds!
We have to realize that even the "Apostles creed" was not written by the apostles.  So, Christ's coming is at first instance, not imminent for the church fathers, but for the apostles' generation.

Uninspired men didn't write Scripture, they just give a zealous interpretation of it.

Notice the spin throughout the centuries and many different "excuses" for Christ's failure to come is apologized for within Christian eschatology?

All because one is not looking at the Bible from a first century perspective.
All the apostles and disciples expected the return of Christ in their generation.

The "nature" of His return is misunderstood, therefore the plain explicit timing in the Bible cannot be taken literally, but has been twisted to mean some intangible and unrecognizable time to suit the futuristic paradigm.


Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #52 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 19:12:19 »
"Jesus will stand upon the Mount of Olives."

No doubt, and the Mount of Olives will breach creating a rift valley to the east in which a believing remnant part of Israel will flee from the invasion of Satan's beast and followers [these will be the Muslims of the Middle East that surround Israel] [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38:39; Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

The world will not see the Lord doing this, but will only see the rift caused by Him ..... and this event will occur at the middle of the coming 70th week decreed for Israel

The Lord's action will be similar to His parting of the Red Sea during Israel's flee from bondage in Egypt .... no one saw Him .... but the Red Sea parted

He will not appear openly to the world until just after those days of the tribulation of His wrath and judgment are over    

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #53 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 19:15:50 »
Someone named Lord is going to be standing on the Mt of Olives after it splits. It hasnt split yet. ::bowing::
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:20:52 by Jaime »

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #54 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:07:42 »
I see that no preterist can deal with the prophet Zechariah

..... not even the one wearing the mask of the old tongue myster

So I will give commentary on this significant prophecy that Zechariah has recorded soon

Hold on  

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #55 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:17:49 »
Linker, I don't know if you are referring to me, but I'm definitely no preterist. Anything but.

If you are a futurist, we agree.

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #56 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:23:44 »
I see that no preterist can deal with the prophet Zechariah

..... not even the one wearing the mask of the old tongue myster

So I will give commentary on this significant prophecy that Zechariah has recorded soon

Hold on  

Says you. And you do not know the first thing about interpreting prophecy because you are a literalist and the the prophets weren't!

So you "see" nothing.

You only project that you wish other Christians hated Zechariah!


Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #57 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:49:31 »
"Linker, I don't know if you are referring to me, but I'm definitely no preterist"


You are a smart guy if true .... speak more so that one can get your drift


The other one posting with the comical iconic twiddles is not so smart .... one who is fading rapidly away

.... I can just barely hear the muffle and the swishing of a dying wind from one who does not dare to refute the prophet Zechariah for fear of playing a card that will lose .... a bluffer who attempts to hide a losing hand   

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #58 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 20:58:54 »
What do you mean? i have argued for the notion that Christ will come to earth as Zach 14 describes and begin his milennium reign on several threads. If you are trying to win converts to your point of view, you certainly have a strange methodology.

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #59 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:06:41 »
I have no ambition to convert one to anything

I am here to teach Bible prophecy .... a few listen .... but most do not on the Internet message boards

..... all must decide for themselves

I don't know about any of your past postings since I have been here only a short time

Sound like you may be on the right track

.... but I also sense some rebuttal in your response .... is your tongue showing a little?

Do you have a specific question?

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #60 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:13:22 »
No, I don't understand your apparent animosity towards me. What rebuttal in my response are you referring to?
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:20:53 by Jaime »

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #61 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:19:55 »
I see that no preterist can deal with the prophet Zechariah

..... not even the one wearing the mask of the old tongue myster

So I will give commentary on this significant prophecy that Zechariah has recorded soon

Hold on  

Says you. And you do not know the first thing about interpreting prophecy because you are a literalist and the the prophets weren't!

So you "see" nothing.

You only project that you wish other Christians hated Zechariah!



Get on it and start spilling about Zechariah. So far, it takes a literalist to understand the prophets.

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #62 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:38:35 »
"No, I don't understand your apparent animosity towards me. What rebuttal in my response are you referring to?"

No animosity .... just a sense of your approach being negative

True or not?

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #63 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 21:53:12 »
I don't get it, as far as I can tell we agree on the fact we think preteriat are wrong and Zachariah 14 is a future event involving Jesus inaugurating his 1000 yr reign on earth. What negative are you referring to? I say not true. Why do you consider it being true that I'm negative about this stance that we agree on?

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #64 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 22:10:56 »
"as far as I can tell we agree on the fact we think preteriat are wrong and Zachariah 14 is a future event involving Jesus inaugurating his 1000 yr reign on earth"

This is good and I agree totally with what you have briefly stated

How can I find your past postings since I have seen none of them

Is there a way to reference them as your listed postings on the forum for review?
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 22:20:27 by Linker »

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #65 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 22:19:57 »
You can click on my name in the upper left of any post and that will bring you to my profile. You can click on "show posts" and that will give you a chronological history of my posts.

I strongly believe that the Sabbath and the land sabbaths are foreshadows of the millenial kingdom, or the 7th millenium.

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #66 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 22:28:11 »
I will review your postings

Do you plan to post more currently?

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #67 on: Thu Jan 05, 2012 - 22:34:53 »
I will review your postings

Do you plan to post more currently?

More currently than what. I average about 10 per day, 15 today.

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #68 on: Fri Jan 06, 2012 - 05:40:07 »
I don't see your posts on this part of the forum .... it is the only place where I have time to post

tell me about your sabbath views and the millennial kingdom

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #69 on: Fri Jan 06, 2012 - 06:32:57 »
I don't see your posts on this part of the forum .... it is the only place where I have time to post

tell me about your sabbath views and the millennial kingdom


You can click Search at the top of the page here and then search by user Jaime, and a screen will pop up asking for search parameters . You can search for terms such as Zechariah, or Millennial or Sabbath and then click show results as messages, it will search all my posts for that term and show them.

I did a search just now and found a thread from earlier this year entitled Zecharia 14, that I started:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/zechariah-14/

This link under the help button might be helpful to walk you through the search function if you have trouble:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?action=help;page=searching
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 06, 2012 - 06:50:17 by Jaime »