Author Topic: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates  (Read 7850 times)

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daq

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2012, 01:31:10 PM »
Not one ounce of any of these things have already taken place in the past as the preterist declares

If you are a preterist I want a verse by verse explanation of each and the proof by accurate historical records that what you say happened in 70 A.D. is valid

If no response, I will show how each event has never taken place in the past for the benefit of the forum

Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

I am only a partial preterist (and partial futurist, I guess), and do not hold to the 70AD date, but... if you are asking for a literal historical fulfillment, you will find that this is not what most believe about Zechariah 8-14.  If you ask someone to defend a point of view which they do not hold, you shouldn't be expected when they don't defend it.

This passage is generally interpreted as being an apocalypse - that is, it is composed of visions which are meant to be interpreted spiritually/supernally, not necessarily physically or literally.

Before you dismiss that, you should note that the New Testament allows this treatment of Old Testament visions.  For instance, this verse:

Zechariah 14:8 - And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

...seems to find fulfillment in these verses:

Jhn 7:37-38 - In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.  He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jarrod



AMEN!!  ::nodding::





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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2012, 02:23:05 PM »
"If you are asking for a literal historical fulfillment, you will find that this is not what most believe about Zechariah 8-14.  If you ask someone to defend a point of view which they do not hold, you shouldn't be expected when they don't defend it."

Who is the "most" that you say do not interpret Zechariah 14:8 literally?

I believe that Zechariah 14:8 is future and literal .... just as these parallel passages of scripture are future and literal: [Zechariah 14:8 should not be taken out of the context of the chapter which obviously a 100% vision of the future .... selective allegory should never be used to interpret the visions of the Bible prophets]

Isaiah
11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

11:13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

11:14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

Ezekiel
36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

[39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Daniel
2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Joel
3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

3:21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

Micah
4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

5:5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

5:6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

5:7 And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.

5:8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

Matthew
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 02:56:30 PM by Linker »
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

raggthyme2012

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2012, 02:43:55 PM »
Merryone,

You said only the literalists understand the prophets.. were not the leaders in Jesus day looking for the literal fulfillment of God's kingdom? Because of this, they missed that in Jesus the law and the prophets were fulfilled. They missed that the kingdom was one where the true worshippers would no longer worship in that place or in that temple, but in spirit and truth. They missed it so bad, holding to a literal and physical view, that they killed their own Messiah.

Why wouldn't the days of vengeance/end of the world that Jesus taught about come upon that generation that killed the Son of God? Why wouldn't the prophecies all come to fulfillment within that wicked generation. The end came, just like He said it would... the end of that Old covenant system. This is what the Bible deals with, not the end of this physical world. The prophets were Hebrew prophets and the prophecies pertained to Israel. If "all things written" are not yet fulfilled, then we are still under the Mosaic Law according to Jesus. He said assuredly that not one iota of the Law would pass until "heaven and earth" pass away. If the dispensational view is a correct view (that the heaven and earth Jesus spoke of are literal) then we are still under Law and the Old covenant is not yet replaced with the New.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 03:35:09 PM by raggthyme2012 »

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2012, 03:12:43 PM »
In conclusion of this thread it needs to be understood that the Bible prophets saw both near term and far off events .... the distant ones still awaiting fulfillment

Israel rejected the Lord because they were not willing to accept the fact that they needed a savior rather than clinging to the law which only condemns .... the Lord came to notify them and set the record straight that they were sinners and that their self-righteousness and works would not save them ..... and they rebelled against Him [just like we all do]

There is a time frame given in Daniel's vision of the 70 weeks of years decreed for his people of his nation that has seen partial fulfillment [this time frame is a period of 490 literal 360 day years] [Daniel 9]

483 years [173880 days] of this time lapse ended in 33 A.D. when the Lord was cut off at the end of the 69th week [the beginning of this allotted time was at the return of the remnant of Israel from the Babylonian captivity to rebuild Jerusalem]

There is still 1 week [7 years .... 2520 days] to finish that has never taken place

The Lord has delayed His confirming and execution of this time frame because of Israel's rejection

.... but He still intends to finish [confirm] the covenant that He has with His national people of Israel at the end of this present age [Jeremiah 31:31-37]

The Bible prophets do not see any events upon the earth between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th which is still pending .... all of their visions are silent with respect to this breach between the Lord's first and second advent

There is a returned remnant of Israel in the land today after about 2000 years of absence [this time lapse is not seen in the prophetic visions] .... and it is this generation of Israel who will experience the fulfillment of the 70th week that is coming [Luke 21:20-32]    
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 03:33:29 PM by Linker »
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

raggthyme2012

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2012, 08:06:50 PM »
Merryone,

You seem to assume folks who don't hold to your particular interpretation of end times study are NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS and have no right to come into these forums. What a way to judge the hearts and intents of men. Even within your own theological faction there is MUCH debate. I have talked with many dispensationalists who differ greatly in their understanding of the Bible. I've listened to many, many of their pastors on the radio with opposing views. I do appreciate godly teachers of every eschatological view. And just because I'm not a Zionist doesn't mean I don't glean the good stuff from them. We just don't see eye to eye on prophecy. I don't accuse them of being liars and condemn them as heretics because they don't agree with me. God is our judge. If someone is saying there is another way to come to God besides Jesus Christ, a big red flag would go up. If someone is saying that God wrote another book, or that God is a cosmic force and we are all god within... red flag. But you're condemning people for reading the Bible and seeing it in a different way. If it's not your way, your churches way, it's the highway??

Everyone needs to stop judging the intents of the heart and speak with more grace. Chances are none of us know each other personally or whether or not we are known of God. Accusing someone who holds the testimony of God (that He has given us eternal life in His Son) of spreading the lies of the devil because they don't understand the Scriptures in the same way you do is a pretty darn serious accusation.

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2012, 08:06:50 PM »



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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2012, 08:07:31 PM »
"If you are asking for a literal historical fulfillment, you will find that this is not what most believe about Zechariah 8-14.  If you ask someone to defend a point of view which they do not hold, you shouldn't be expected when they don't defend it."

Who is the "most" that you say do not interpret Zechariah 14:8 literally?

I believe that Zechariah 14:8 is future and literal .... just as these parallel passages of scripture are future and literal: [Zechariah 14:8 should not be taken out of the context of the chapter which obviously a 100% vision of the future .... selective allegory should never be used to interpret the visions of the Bible prophets.
That would be most preterists... that is who you addressed the thread to, I believe.

As for "selective allegory," it really isn't a matter of just picking and choosing things.  Any examination of Zechariah will necessarily tell you that the book is written in two sections.  Go find a few... I can wait while you read up on it.

While we're at it, this is a common form for the prophetic writings.  We should view it as an intentional feature of the writings themselves.  Off the top of my head, I would note that Isaiah, Daniel and Zechariah ALL contain two major sections - the first dealing with the literal events surrounding the time of the writer, while the second deals strictly with a spiritual/supernal interpretation, which finds fulfillment in the life and times of Christ.

Jarrod
I cannot do anything for God.  God can do anything through me.

Still waiting for God to show up?  Good news - He's already here.

Offline Merryone

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2012, 09:42:33 PM »
Merryone,

You seem to assume folks who don't hold to your particular interpretation of end times study are NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS and have no right to come into these forums. What a way to judge the hearts and intents of men. Even within your own theological faction there is MUCH debate. I have talked with many dispensationalists who differ greatly in their understanding of the Bible. I've listened to many, many of their pastors on the radio with opposing views. I do appreciate godly teachers of every eschatological view. And just because I'm not a Zionist doesn't mean I don't glean the good stuff from them. We just don't see eye to eye on prophecy. I don't accuse them of being liars and condemn them as heretics because they don't agree with me. God is our judge. If someone is saying there is another way to come to God besides Jesus Christ, a big red flag would go up. If someone is saying that God wrote another book, or that God is a cosmic force and we are all god within... red flag. But you're condemning people for reading the Bible and seeing it in a different way. If it's not your way, your churches way, it's the highway??

Everyone needs to stop judging the intents of the heart and speak with more grace. Chances are none of us know each other personally or whether or not we are known of God. Accusing someone who holds the testimony of God (that He has given us eternal life in His Son) of spreading the lies of the devil because they don't understand the Scriptures in the same way you do is a pretty darn serious accusation.

Sorry, raggthyme, but that is not a correct assessment of what I am about. Let's just continue on in the discussion, OK? Thanks.
Jesus is Lord!! ::clappingoverhead::

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2012, 08:44:48 AM »
Merryone,

You have dodged Raggthyme's questions directed at you.


"Merryone,

You said only the literalists understand the prophets.. were not the leaders in Jesus day looking for the literal fulfillment of God's kingdom? Because of this, they missed that in Jesus the law and the prophets were fulfilled. They missed that the kingdom was one where the true worshipers would no longer worship in that place or in that temple, but in spirit and truth. They missed it so bad, holding to a literal and physical view, that they killed their own Messiah.

Why wouldn't the days of vengeance/end of the world that Jesus taught about come upon that generation that killed the Son of God? Why wouldn't the prophecies all come to fulfillment within that wicked generation? The end came, just like He said it would... the end of that Old covenant system. This is what the Bible deals with, not the end of this physical world. The prophets were Hebrew prophets and the prophecies pertained to Israel. If "all things written" are not yet fulfilled, then we are still under the Mosaic Law according to Jesus. He said assuredly that not one iota of the Law would pass until "heaven and earth" pass away. If the dispensational view is a correct view (that the heaven and earth Jesus spoke of are literal) then we are still under Law and the Old covenant is not yet replaced with the New."

In fact, you failed to address anything he said or asked...I guess this would be you running and hiding?

I guess that you haven't realized yet that if heaven and earth have not passed (according to your paradigm) that it mandates that we are still under the Law.  And because of that, we should still be in obedience to every jot and tittle of that physical temple system.

But guess what?  It is impossible because that system was destroyed almost 2,000 years ago.  So, with no system (temple, priesthood, offerings, etc), do you really think God has asked you to do something which is not even possible?

But you won't even reconsider your position that that the end of the world was, in fact, the end of the physical temple system.

This is why you are unable to believe what the INSPIRED apostle Paul said in regard to that he had preached the Gospel to all the world, etc.,and then the end would come.  The end did come but it was not the end of of the present universe.

That is why I asked where is the end of the universe spoken of in the OT - because this is where the promise/prophecy began.  Only one person gave an OT quote and it was quickly pointed out that it was in regard to Israel...

And why then do you wish to see a return to the Mosaic Law system when you know Jesus fulfilled this system.  You need to rebuild this system so that it can be destroyed again (and almost immediately).  You are attempting to reduplicate past historical events so that they can be fulfilled again...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 09:27:24 AM by EdwardGoodie »

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2012, 09:05:56 AM »
I will review your postings

Do you plan to post more currently?

LINKER just looking for trouble...... WHAT are you asking this for, do you see that you only AGAIN want to cause trouble with everyone and anyone.... You hound this person on how to find post or if their gonna do more current ones.  Unbelieveable

I see in other post you constantly saying:

I WANT A through and full verse by verse explanantion

Your way to tragic to be just so silly in your demands of others

just look above and I'm sure for pages to come on EVERY page you creep upon
It's just as important to KNOW what's NOT in the Bible
as it is to KNOW what IS

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2012, 09:30:20 AM »
There is a returned remnant of Israel in the land today after about 2000 years of absence [this time lapse is not seen in the prophetic visions] .... and it is this generation of Israel who will experience the fulfillment of the 70th week that is coming [Luke 21:20-32]    

This is incorrect... The generation is NOT the generation of Jews who came back in 1948


If one looks, the generation Luke speaks of is the generation who SEE THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE, some of THEM will see Christ. Coming on the clouds for the rapture...

You'll hear false teachers like Hal Lindsey or van impe say that v.29 the fig tree MEANs Israel...
If you look v.28 tells us that when we see these things happen
The stars sun and moon v.25 to look up your redemption draws near.
He teaches pre trib rapture so that's why he see it as he does...

V. 36 sums it all up as ALL BELIEVERS are to watch for Christ return (active in Gods will)
It's just as important to KNOW what's NOT in the Bible
as it is to KNOW what IS

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2012, 10:08:50 AM »
There is a returned remnant of Israel in the land today after about 2000 years of absence [this time lapse is not seen in the prophetic visions] .... and it is this generation of Israel who will experience the fulfillment of the 70th week that is coming [Luke 21:20-32]    

This is incorrect... The generation is NOT the generation of Jews who came back in 1948

I agree too! (Well, not about the "is coming" part  ::smile::)

If one looks, the generation Luke speaks of is the generation who SEE THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE, some of THEM will see Christ. Coming on the clouds for the rapture...

While you and I would disagree as to the nature of the harpadzo event, may I remind you that the "this generation" was used in context of a private conversation between Jesus and His four disciples:

Mark 13:3-4 - And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,  
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
     

What would those disciples have thought Jesus meant by saying "this generation"?  He was, after all, speaking to them, right?

But you are right in that some would be alive to see Jesus.  I refer you to Jesus' own words on that subject:

Matthew 16:27-28 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.  
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.  

Mark 8:38 - Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.  
Mark 9:1 - And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.  

Luke 9:26-27 - For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.  
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
 

Offline Linker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2012, 05:57:13 PM »
"This is incorrect... The generation is NOT the generation of Jews who came back in 1948"


Show me where I said that it was the generation beginning in 1948 ..... you can't do it because I don't say it and have not on this forum

You have tried to misquote me before KB on other subjects

So I want you to prove that I have said the generation of Israel the Lord speaks of started in 1948

Again you will not be able to do this

When you behave like you do people watch you ......... telling the truth about things = credibility

The generation of the remnant part of His nation of Israel will be "the generation of the remnant part of His nation of Israel living at the time of the end of this present age

.....and not you, or anyone else knows when this end time setting will begin

So I would suggest that you think about throwing your critiques around the forum which are based on falsehood ..... this makes you look like an idiot

 
2Peter
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts

thethinker

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2012, 09:57:26 AM »
Linker erroneously said:
Quote
The generation of the remnant part of His nation of Israel will be "the generation of the remnant part of His nation of Israel living at the time of the end of this present age

There goes Linker posting his fairy tales again. Paul said that the remnant was being saved in HIS TIME and that they HAVE OBTAINED salvation..

Quote
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life

EdwardGoodie

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2012, 10:21:19 AM »
Romans 11:5 - Even so then at this present time [almost 2,000 years ago] also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And where did this remnant come from?

It came from the house of Israel.  The Gospel of the kingdom was being preached in the Jewish synagogues!

Act_13:14  But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act_13:15  And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Act_14:1  And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Act_17:1  Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act_17:10  And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Act_17:17  Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Act_18:4  And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Act_18:7  And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

Act_18:8  And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Act_18:17  Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those things.

Act_18:19  And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Act_18:26  And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Act_19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Act_22:19  And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Act_26:11  And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

To the Jew first, remember?  The kingdom was not delayed by more than 2,000 years.  It was "at hand" exactly as Christ had said...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 11:26:23 AM by EdwardGoodie »

raggthyme2012

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Re: The Prophet that the Preterist Hates
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2012, 10:54:36 AM »
Romans 11:5 - Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And where did this remnant come from?

It came from the house of Israel.  The Gospel of the kingdom was being preached in the Jewish synagogues!

Act_13:14  But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act_13:15  And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

Act_14:1  And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Act_17:1  Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act_17:10  And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Act_17:17  Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Act_18:4  And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Act_18:7  And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

Act_18:8  And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Act_18:17  Then all the Greeks took Sosthenes, the chief ruler of the synagogue, and beat him before the judgment seat. And Gallio cared for none of those things.

Act_18:19  And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Act_18:26  And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Act_19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Act_22:19  And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Act_26:11  And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

To the Jew first, remember?  The kingdom was not delayed by more than 2,000 years.  It was "at hand" exactly as Christ had said...

Beautiful!