The Prophet that the Preterist Hates

[Linker]

Problem with goodie's idea posted above .....  

First century Israel never received the kingdom ..... the Lord was rejected by the same

And here is what He said about this [Acts 1:6-7] .... the kingdom delayed for Israel

.... but this is going to change for a believing remnant of Israel at the end of this present age [Isaiah 11; 27:13; Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 37; Daniel 9:24-27; Joel 3; Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Romans 11:25-36]

[EdwardGoodie]

Problem with goodie's idea posted above .....  

First century Israel never received the kingdom ..... the Lord was rejected by the same

And here is what He said about this [Acts 1:6-7] .... the kingdom delayed for Israel

.... but this is going to change for a believing remnant of Israel at the end of this present age [Isaiah 11; 27:13; Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 37; Daniel 9:24-27; Joel 3; Micah 4; 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Romans 11:25-36]

Yeppers...just imagine all the wasted time that Paul put forth into preaching the Gospel of the kingdom in them thar synagogues...yesirrrreeeee, he sure was plum stupid.  Imagine that....the Holy Ghost which would reveal all truth especially in the area of things to come sure messed up for good ol' Paul...

Yessssirrreeeeee...all them that Jews that got saved and entered into the kingdom were just being fooled by the Holy Ghost.  That Holy Spirit character is sure one funny fellow...at least to Linker.

[Linker]

I think you should put this to music goodie .... maybe write a little diddle and sell it

.... I think your response here is totally irrelevant ..... Israel did not receive the kingdom

The nation remained in unbelief and is the same today

I want you to explain to the forum what Paul explains about his people in Romans 11:25-26

.... and also compare the same with with Ezekiel 36

Just for starts ..... and then we can discuss much more from a biblical perspective on this matter

[EdwardGoodie]

I think you should put this to music goodie .... maybe write a little diddle and sell it

.... I think your response here is totally irrelevant ..... Israel did not receive the kingdom

The nation remained in unbelief and is the same today

I want you to explain to the forum what Paul explains about his people in Romans 11:25-26

.... and also compare the same with with Ezekiel 36

Just for starts ..... and then we can discuss much more from a biblical perspective on this matter

Linker, you have been asked at least a hundred questions which you just ignore.

You have no King.  You have no kingdom.  Too bad.  I do.  Israel did not receive a physical kingdom but it does not come with observation.

physical , physical, physical...just like the Pharisees wishes...

[Linker]

The preterist blends Israel's coming kingdom to be restored by Jesus Christ with the mystery kingdom of His church yet to be revealed; and at the same time claims "kingdom now" theology which includes only the preterists

You would be better off not to respond to me goodie .... it just makes you look incompetent .... you find youself at the bottom of the proficiency quotient every time

Do you know that people actually read these things?  

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Not one ounce of any of these things have already taken place in the past as the preterist declares
If you are a preterist I want a verse by verse explanation of each and the proof by accurate historical records that what you say happened in 70 A.D. is valid
Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

At the moment, I will only deal with Zechariah 14:5. The above rendition is a corruption of the original text. Zechariah 14:5 actually says:

• The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Azal, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

There is a lot of evidence that this event has already occurred (search Internet for zechariah + azal + yasul for the proof). Additionally, the Israelis have identified the location of Azal due south of old Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives, which completely invalidates the version of Zechariah 14:5 that says people are to flee east through the Mount of Olives to Azal.

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Did I understand what you just said?
Pure hobgoblin
Not a good idea to deliberately misrepresent the Lord's Word
.... give proof of "corruption of the original text"
I want your source and where you obtained it please .... all of it, and both verses in context
The rift "valley" will be created by the splitting of the Mount of Olives [this has never happened and did not in 70 AD]

You're the one bearing false witness of God in this matter, not me. I already told you how to find the proof. If you can't do something so simple as that, what's the point of having a discussion?

Your fairy tale of people fleeing east through a valley in the Mount of Olives to Azal is rendered impossible by the fact that the location of Azal as identified by the Israelis lies due south of both old Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives. It's common knowledge in Jerusalem where Azal is; here's an example from the 3rd paragraph of a blog of a graduate student living in Jerusalem (http://jerusalem-girl.blogspot.com/2010/10/geography-of-jerusalem.html):

• “This [photo shows] the Azel Valley mentioned in Zechariah 14:5 in reference to the earthquake that occurred during King Uzziah’s reign around 760 B.C.

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And there is no point of discussion with the hardened hyper-preterist
...
Azal was a city east and then south of Jerusalem near Petra [the sheep pens, Bozarh] .... and the KJV posted above is not corrupted
...

Well firstly, I'm not a hyper-preterist, much less a hardened one. I consider hyper-preterism an abomination.

Secondly, in order to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just expressing your opinion, what evidence do you have that "Azal was a city east and then south of Jerusalem near Petra"? Your claim contradicts contemporary knowledge. As I mentioned, the location of Azal is common knowledge in Jerusalem. I provided one example; here is another found in the second paragraph of a page on the Jerusalem Segway Tour Company's website (http://www.jerusalemsegway.co.il/en-us/armon-hanatziv--background):

“At the foot of the ridge is the deep channel of Atzal River (Zechariah 14:5), which advances toward the Kidron Valley. Its Biblical name was preserved by the Arabs as Wadi Yasul

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here's another example of Israeli recognition of Azal, or as they call it Nahal Azal (valley of Azal) - http://gaialab.asu.edu/DAAHL/SitesDataView.php?SiteNo=353104995

This is catalog entry in the Digital Archaeological Atlas of the Holy Land for Nahal Azal, which has archaeological significance due to many ancient tombs there. The satellite photo is a good shot of the valley, and you can zoom in and out, and change to map view to view its relation to Jerusalem. The southernmost tip of the Mount of Olives is visible in top right corner.  If you put the map in Terrain view (if not selectable, zoom out), you can actually read the name of the valley in Hebrew - נחל אצל - to the left of the red dot.

As you can see, Azal lies due south of Jerusalem, and southwest of the Mount of Olives. So the theory that Zechariah 14:5 refers to people fleeing east through a split Mount of Olives to Azal is impossible.

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I decided to move my discussions to a new thread - http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/preterist-forum/ye-shall-not-flee-to-azal

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

My opinion? Not so .... it is the very word of the living God
Anytime one come along and begins to pick what has been corrupted in the Bible this a sign of one who is mocking christianity

Really? Can you please tell me which of the following two verses is the word of God as given to Solomon?

Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner. Proverbs 11:31, King James Version

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear? Proverbs 11:31, Septuagint

I looked at the source of your accusation against Zechariah 14:4-5 and I can tell you that the promoter is not a christian, but one of Judaism who does not believe in Jesus Christ.

Uh... no. Not even close. Wanna try again?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The entire rant of this individual is false

Facts never matter to a closed mind.

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If some of the scriptures of the Bible are corrupted [which they are not when rendered correctly], then there would be reason to question any of them ..... and this position creates doubt that the Bible is the Word of the living God in the first place

You obviously have little knowledge about the history and reality of the bible. You are the type of person who teaches faith in the bible instead of the living word of God.

Why didn't you answer my previous question? Can you please tell me which of the following two verses is the word of God as given to Solomon?

Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner. Proverbs 11:31, King James Version

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear? Proverbs 11:31, Septuagint

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

..... you like the word "obviously" don't you

Obviously. And you, obviously, are a thread spammer. Why do you keep refusing to answer my question? Please tell me which of the following two verses is the word of God as given to Solomon?

Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner. Proverbs 11:31, King James Version

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear? Proverbs 11:31, Septuagint

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

They both are. It is you who likes to make up the idea that there are significant differences.

The two verses are significantly different. Solomon didn't write both versions; somebody changed what Solomon wrote in one of the versions. The apostle Peter has clearly witnessed that the Septuagint version is what Solomon wrote, and therefore the word of God:

Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner. Proverbs 11:31, King James Version - FAIL

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear? Proverbs 11:31, Septuagint

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1 Peter 4:18

This proves that the King James version has been corrupted. Your rationalization that they say the same thing does violence to the word of God and exhibits the kind of dishonesty that gives Christianity a bad name to those who honestly seek the truth.

Do you apply the same rationalization to the following two verses? Are you saying they are redundant, and are both the word of God?

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, King James Version

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Zechariah 14:5, Septuagint

Let me ask you something ..... are you believer and follower of Jesus Christ who is the Word of God?

Yes.