Author Topic: The Tribulation has already happened.  (Read 1248 times)

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Offline Happy22

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The Tribulation has already happened.
« on: March 27, 2013, 04:48:10 PM »
   I realize that this will disappoint many Christians. If the great tribulation is over, then the Rapture is not scheduled to take place prior to this tribulation. The rapture of the saints — the resurrection of dead saints and the instant transformation of those still alive on earth (I Corinthians 15:52) — gets delayed until the final act of history, when Satan rebels and Christ comes back to judge the world (Revelation 20:7-10). This means that until then, Christians will remain on earth as God’s delegated agents of judgment in history, preaching the gospel, applying God’s law to every area of life, and progressively subduing the earth to the glory of God (Genesis 1:26- 28). This means that there will be no earthly escape for church members from the progressively heavy responsibilities of exercising dominion.
    Sadly, there are millions of Christians today who have adopted a philosophy of the future that teaches that most people will die and go to hell — and then be tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity (Revelation 20:14) — and nothing the church can do will be able to overcome their resistance to the gospel. The Holy Spirit will simply never change the hearts of a majority of mankind. They will inevitably perish. With over 5 billion people alive today, and with billions more to be born in the next 40 years, this is a pessimistic doctrine of the future. Yet today’s Christians prefer to believe in this horrible scenario than to believe in the growth of the church and the triumph of the gospel, for such a triumph would place tremendous responsibility on those who call themselves Christians. They really would rather see billions of people perish eternally than to admit to themselves that they, as Christians, will be called on by God to take responsibility in this world — in the areas that many Christians call “secular” —because of a world-wide revival.
    We who call ourselves Christian Reconstructionists proclaim a future worldwide revival and the steady, voluntary submission of people to God’s law. We believe that Christians will steadily be given responsibilities in every area of life in a world that has run out of workable answers. God will give us these responsibilities, but not through revolution or tyranny. Instead, He will give us these responsibilities in history through the voluntary submission of those who have no other hope, and who (until that final rebel-lion of Revelation 20) will be willing to allow Christians to bear these social, political, military, and economic responsibilities.
    We believe in revival. We believe in evangelism and foreign missions. So do all Christians. But we Reconstructionists have this unique outlook: we believe that these gospel efforts will be successful in history. When we call other Christians to intensify their efforts to spread the gospel, we offer them this unique motivation: their efforts will eventually prove successful in history. The gospel of Jesus Christ will not prove to be a failure in history. The power of the resurrection is greater than the power of the devil and his human followers to resist the most powerful message in man’s history: that Jesus Christ has borne the sins of man, and that evil has in principle been overcome. As time goes on, this gospel will triumph in history.

Offline FireSword

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 05:04:44 PM »
Interesting take. I have wondered about this a few times, only you so far have mentioned it. Which being that Christ returns after the 1000 years of peace, rather than before it. This correlates with Peter who said the elements shall burn with great heat and everything on fire, matching with rev 20 when fire comes down from heaven devouring the worlds rebellious Gog and Magog or even the lake of fire.

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2013, 09:34:04 AM »
Interesting take. I have wondered about this a few times, only you so far have mentioned it. Which being that Christ returns after the 1000 years of peace, rather than before it. This correlates with Peter who said the elements shall burn with great heat and everything on fire, matching with rev 20 when fire comes down from heaven devouring the worlds rebellious Gog and Magog or even the lake of fire.

There is nor was any "1000 years of peace"  Peace was & is only found in Christ, who was the Mediator of the new covenant. He gives us his "peace." (John 14:27)

The "elements" Peter spoke of metaphorically. Those were the beggarly"elements" of the Law that God sought to remove in the new covenant of Grace.

You are seemingly close about Rev20, and about fire consuming the old covenant "world" and earthly temple worshipers so the "true worshipers" of God's new covenant Laws would be who the KINGDOM was given to! (Rev.11)

Hebrews 12 helps explain the "elements" of the Law which God removed.  And remember that after such, Peter said we look for the new heaven and earth, where righteousness dwells. That is the new Jerusalem kingdom of God.  Peter never mentions any earthly literal "thousand year reign of Christ on earth!  Just the new heaven and earth- the new temples of the living God. (Christians)

The Glorious Company

18 For you have not come to the mountain that[c] may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness[d] and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned[e] or shot with an arrow.”[f] 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”[g])

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Hear the Heavenly Voice

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake[h] not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may[j] serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.


There was a change in the Law, as Hebrews states.  That became the Law of Christ Paul speaks of in detail in Romans.

Offline notreligus

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2013, 07:21:07 PM »
   I realize that this will disappoint many Christians. If the great tribulation is over, then the Rapture is not scheduled to take place prior to this tribulation. The rapture of the saints — the resurrection of dead saints and the instant transformation of those still alive on earth (I Corinthians 15:52) — gets delayed until the final act of history, when Satan rebels and Christ comes back to judge the world (Revelation 20:7-10). This means that until then, Christians will remain on earth as God’s delegated agents of judgment in history, preaching the gospel, applying God’s law to every area of life, and progressively subduing the earth to the glory of God (Genesis 1:26- 28). This means that there will be no earthly escape for church members from the progressively heavy responsibilities of exercising dominion.
    Sadly, there are millions of Christians today who have adopted a philosophy of the future that teaches that most people will die and go to hell — and then be tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity (Revelation 20:14) — and nothing the church can do will be able to overcome their resistance to the gospel. The Holy Spirit will simply never change the hearts of a majority of mankind. They will inevitably perish. With over 5 billion people alive today, and with billions more to be born in the next 40 years, this is a pessimistic doctrine of the future. Yet today’s Christians prefer to believe in this horrible scenario than to believe in the growth of the church and the triumph of the gospel, for such a triumph would place tremendous responsibility on those who call themselves Christians. They really would rather see billions of people perish eternally than to admit to themselves that they, as Christians, will be called on by God to take responsibility in this world — in the areas that many Christians call “secular” —because of a world-wide revival.
    We who call ourselves Christian Reconstructionists proclaim a future worldwide revival and the steady, voluntary submission of people to God’s law. We believe that Christians will steadily be given responsibilities in every area of life in a world that has run out of workable answers. God will give us these responsibilities, but not through revolution or tyranny. Instead, He will give us these responsibilities in history through the voluntary submission of those who have no other hope, and who (until that final rebel-lion of Revelation 20) will be willing to allow Christians to bear these social, political, military, and economic responsibilities.
    We believe in revival. We believe in evangelism and foreign missions. So do all Christians. But we Reconstructionists have this unique outlook: we believe that these gospel efforts will be successful in history. When we call other Christians to intensify their efforts to spread the gospel, we offer them this unique motivation: their efforts will eventually prove successful in history. The gospel of Jesus Christ will not prove to be a failure in history. The power of the resurrection is greater than the power of the devil and his human followers to resist the most powerful message in man’s history: that Jesus Christ has borne the sins of man, and that evil has in principle been overcome. As time goes on, this gospel will triumph in history.

This Dominionism nonsense is nothing new.  It has been around for a long time.  Bishop Earl Paulk used to teach that, too. 

A man named Alexander Campbell published his Millennial Harbinger newsletter each month for twenty years back before this small event called the Civil War came along and blew his claim that his teaching was going to help Christians to gain dominion over the Earth and he predicted that there would be no more wars. 

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2013, 07:39:50 PM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 07:43:11 PM by Lively Stone »

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2013, 07:39:50 PM »



Offline Happy Homemaker

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 08:00:04 PM »
Quote
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Spot on! 100% agree!  ::smile::

Offline Happy22

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 09:09:06 PM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Do you also believe the 144,000 Jews will be left behind to witness?

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 09:15:01 PM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Do you also believe the 144,000 Jews will be left behind to witness?

I believe 144,000 Jews will be raised up by the Lord Jesus Christ to be witnesses for Him in the earth. Why? Because that is what the word teaches.

Revelation 7:1-8

God’s People Will Be Preserved

Then I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds so they did not blow on the earth or the sea, or even on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel coming up from the east, carrying the seal of the living God. And he shouted to those four angels, who had been given power to harm land and sea, 3 “Wait! Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants.”

4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:
5 from Judah   12,000
from Reuben   12,000
from Gad   12,000
6 from Asher   12,000
from Naphtali   12,000
from Manasseh   12,000
7 from Simeon   12,000
from Levi   12,000
from Issachar   12,000
8 from Zebulun   12,000
from Joseph   12,000
from Benjamin   12,000

Offline Happy22

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 09:19:39 PM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Do you also believe the 144,000 Jews will be left behind to witness?

I believe 144,000 Jews will be raised up by the Lord Jesus Christ to be witnesses for Him in the earth. Why? Because that is what the word teaches.

Revelation 7:1-8

God’s People Will Be Preserved

Then I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds so they did not blow on the earth or the sea, or even on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel coming up from the east, carrying the seal of the living God. And he shouted to those four angels, who had been given power to harm land and sea, 3 “Wait! Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants.”

4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:
5 from Judah   12,000
from Reuben   12,000
from Gad   12,000
6 from Asher   12,000
from Naphtali   12,000
from Manasseh   12,000
7 from Simeon   12,000
from Levi   12,000
from Issachar   12,000
8 from Zebulun   12,000
from Joseph   12,000
from Benjamin   12,000

If they are left behind, then all Christians will not be Raptured?

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 09:23:43 PM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Do you also believe the 144,000 Jews will be left behind to witness?

I believe 144,000 Jews will be raised up by the Lord Jesus Christ to be witnesses for Him in the earth. Why? Because that is what the word teaches.

Revelation 7:1-8

God’s People Will Be Preserved

Then I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds so they did not blow on the earth or the sea, or even on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel coming up from the east, carrying the seal of the living God. And he shouted to those four angels, who had been given power to harm land and sea, 3 “Wait! Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants.”

4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:
5 from Judah   12,000
from Reuben   12,000
from Gad   12,000
6 from Asher   12,000
from Naphtali   12,000
from Manasseh   12,000
7 from Simeon   12,000
from Levi   12,000
from Issachar   12,000
8 from Zebulun   12,000
from Joseph   12,000
from Benjamin   12,000

If they are left behind, then all Christians will not be Raptured?

No one says they will be 'left behind'. They are consecrated men of God and separated for a purpose.

Offline Happy22

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2013, 09:43:35 PM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Do you also believe the 144,000 Jews will be left behind to witness?

I believe 144,000 Jews will be raised up by the Lord Jesus Christ to be witnesses for Him in the earth. Why? Because that is what the word teaches.

Revelation 7:1-8

God’s People Will Be Preserved

Then I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds so they did not blow on the earth or the sea, or even on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel coming up from the east, carrying the seal of the living God. And he shouted to those four angels, who had been given power to harm land and sea, 3 “Wait! Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants.”

4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:
5 from Judah   12,000
from Reuben   12,000
from Gad   12,000
6 from Asher   12,000
from Naphtali   12,000
from Manasseh   12,000
7 from Simeon   12,000
from Levi   12,000
from Issachar   12,000
8 from Zebulun   12,000
from Joseph   12,000
from Benjamin   12,000

If they are left behind, then all Christians will not be Raptured?

No one says they will be 'left behind'. They are consecrated men of God and separated for a purpose.

Thank...I get the Rapture theory mixed in with the JW beliefs.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 09:45:15 PM »


Thank...I get the Rapture theory mixed in with the JW beliefs.

Oh my!  ::eek::

Offline Happy22

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Re: The Tribulation has already happened.
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2013, 06:48:46 AM »
Sorry, but the Tribulation that Jesus warns us of has not happened yet. He says it will be a time of calamity like none other. do you not know that the violence of the earthquakes that will occur at that time will be global and not confined to one geographical area? What about the huge hailstones the size of cars? The mass suffering of sores and boils, and other pestilences?

During the seven year Tribulation period, following the Rapture of all the Christians to heaven, the Bible warns that the wrath of God will be poured out on unrepentant sinners. These judgments described in Revelation include worldwide war (conventional as well as nuclear), famine, plague, wild animals attacking humans, meteor impacts, massive global earthquakes, and more. The start of these terrible judgments commence at the beginning of the seven year Tribulation period which is marked by the signing of a seven year peace treaty between the Antichrist and Israel. There will be a progression of these judgments along with their severity as prophesied by John (Revelation 6-18).

No, it has not happened, yet. It won't happen until the Bride of Christ is swooped away to be with her Bridegroom.

Do you also believe the 144,000 Jews will be left behind to witness?

I believe 144,000 Jews will be raised up by the Lord Jesus Christ to be witnesses for Him in the earth. Why? Because that is what the word teaches.

Revelation 7:1-8

God’s People Will Be Preserved

Then I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds so they did not blow on the earth or the sea, or even on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel coming up from the east, carrying the seal of the living God. And he shouted to those four angels, who had been given power to harm land and sea, 3 “Wait! Don’t harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have placed the seal of God on the foreheads of his servants.”

4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:
5 from Judah   12,000
from Reuben   12,000
from Gad   12,000
6 from Asher   12,000
from Naphtali   12,000
from Manasseh   12,000
7 from Simeon   12,000
from Levi   12,000
from Issachar   12,000
8 from Zebulun   12,000
from Joseph   12,000
from Benjamin   12,000

If they are left behind, then all Christians will not be Raptured?

No one says they will be 'left behind'. They are consecrated men of God and separated for a purpose.

Thank...I get the Rapture theory mixed in with the JW beliefs.

Now I understand why all the rapture books are written as fiction.