Author Topic: This generation?  (Read 4360 times)

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Offline john collins

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This generation?
« on: March 05, 2012, 06:51:41 PM »
Matthew 24. You know what I mean. Was Jesus wrong? C.S Lewis thought so. What say you?

EdwardGoodie

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 07:14:12 PM »
Matthew 24. You know what I mean. Was Jesus wrong? C.S Lewis thought so. What say you?

"Was Jesus wrong?"

How can you even ask that question?  Jesus is NEVER wrong.  If He said it would be that first century generation, then you should believe Him.  If you cant believe Him, then perhaps Buddhism or Shintoism is best suited for your purposes...

Offline john collins

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 07:40:18 PM »
Matthew 24. You know what I mean. Was Jesus wrong? C.S Lewis thought so. What say you?

"Was Jesus wrong?"

How can you even ask that question?  Jesus is NEVER wrong.  If He said it would be that first century generation, then you should believe Him.  If you cant believe Him, then perhaps Buddhism or Shintoism is best suited for your purposes...

So it was that first generation?

Offline john collins

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 08:18:55 PM »
If a teacher stood before you today in junior high school history class and spoke of the time when President Kennedy was assassinated... and they said "This generation knew what it was like to have their popular leader struck down."

Would you think the teacher was referring to this generation seated in their classroom today?

Or would you interpret it as meaning THAT generation that lived when Kennedy was assassinated?

The same communicative logic applies to Jesus' words.

He said the generation that sees all the signs he just spoke of will not pass until all is fulfilled.

It's not rocket science folks.


Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this?

inthenow

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 11:18:47 PM »
Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

"coming" in the greek that it was written in is "erchomani" which means appear
And some saw the son of man appear in His kingdom six days later, they saw Moses and Elijah too.

Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.


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Re: This generation?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 11:18:47 PM »



EdwardGoodie

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 08:54:09 AM »
Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

"coming" in the greek that it was written in is "erchomani" which means appear
And some saw the son of man appear in His kingdom six days later, they saw Moses and Elijah too.

Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.



So, what you are saying, and what you expect us to believe by your exegesis is that MOST of the people who were there had DIED in that extremely short six (Mt 16, Mk 8) to eight (Luke 9:28) day period!!  Must have been one of those 24-hour plagues... ::smile:: (sorry, couldn't resist)

Not a chance!

When you attempted an exegesis of this passage, why didn't that question cross your mind?

Matthew 16:27-28 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.  
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.  


Why didn't these questions ALSO cross your mind?

1.  Were the angels present in that vision as well?
2.  Was every man rewarded according to their works at the time of that vision?
3.  Were those of that first century generation ashamed because of the vision? (Mark 8:38)

Looks like the transfiguration event comes nowhere even close to the fulfillment...

Perhaps viewing the transfiguration event like this might help:

1.  First we have Moses and Elijah in the vision.  They represent the Law and the Prophets.
2.  Then they are gone from the vision and only Christ is left.

Could this vision be representative of what would take place at Calvary when the Law was nailed to the cross?
Could this vision be representative of the old covenant passing away and only the new covenant in place?
Could this represent the inauguration of the new covenant at Calvary?

I believe Jesus when he said that SOME would still be alive[/b] when he would come:

1.  In His Father's glory
2.  In His own glory (Luke 9:26)
3.  In the glory of the holy angels (Luke 9:26)
4.  With His angels
5.  To reward every man according to his work
6.  In His kingdom
7.  When those living would see the kingdom of God (Luke 9:27)
8.  In their first century adulterous and sinful generation (Mark 8:38)
9.  That those of that first century generation would be ashamed at Christ's coming (Mark 8:38)

And if you think that those alive would only be of His 12 disciples, then think again:

Mark 8:34- And when he had called the people unto him WITH his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

You might be interested in knowing that the idea of every man being rewarded according to his own work is strictly from a "second coming" theme:

Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.  

Perhaps your understanding of this tri-harmonial event has increased.  I hope so.




« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 09:00:58 AM by EdwardGoodie »

thethinker

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 09:30:58 AM »
Mat 16:28  Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

"coming" in the greek that it was written in is "erchomani" which means appear
And some saw the son of man appear in His kingdom six days later, they saw Moses and Elijah too.

Mat 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.



First, you totally ignore the context. Jesus added, "Then He shall REWARD every man according to his works." Did Jesus reward every man according to his works at His transfiguration?

Second, Jesus also told Caiaphas that he would see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. Was Caiaphas present at the transfiguration?

Third, if you can apply second coming language figuratively to His transfiguration, then we may apply that language figuratively too.

thinker

inthenow

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 08:25:11 PM »
My post was short enough, but you don't understand.
I didn't refer to christ's second coming but to His appearing in His Kingdom, which some witnessed as told by Jesus six days earlier.

john collins implied a preterists view and i showed that it's not necessarily referring to a preterist view..
You posted about nothing i said, but your own imagination of what i said, and another poster followed you in that same confusion.

You also will have to get rid of that know all and accusing attitude if you are to do well.

EdwardGoodie:
So, what you are saying, and what you expect us to believe
And if you think that those alive would only be of His 12 disciples, then think again:
Perhaps your understanding of this tri-harmonial event has increased.  I hope so.

Offline JohnDB70X7

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 08:39:16 PM »
If a teacher stood before you today in junior high school history class and spoke of the time when President Kennedy was assassinated... and they said "This generation knew what it was like to have their popular leader struck down."

Would you think the teacher was referring to this generation seated in their classroom today?

Or would you interpret it as meaning THAT generation that lived when Kennedy was assassinated?

The same communicative logic applies to Jesus' words.

He said the generation that sees all the signs he just spoke of will not pass until all is fulfilled.

It's not rocket science folks.


Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this?

Matthew 17:1-8 was a peek into the future.

1 Corinthians 15:1-6 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

He came to Paul on several occasions and to John in Revelation who actually saw him sitting on the throne of the Father.


Lehigh

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 10:57:18 AM »
If a teacher stood before you today in junior high school history class and spoke of the time when President Kennedy was assassinated... and they said "This generation knew what it was like to have their popular leader struck down."

Would you think the teacher was referring to this generation seated in their classroom today?

Or would you interpret it as meaning THAT generation that lived when Kennedy was assassinated?

The same communicative logic applies to Jesus' words.

He said the generation that sees all the signs he just spoke of will not pass until all is fulfilled.

It's not rocket science folks.


Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this?

Matthew 17:1-8 was a peek into the future.

1 Corinthians 15:1-6 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

He came to Paul on several occasions and to John in Revelation who actually saw him sitting on the throne of the Father.



You must not have passed English grammar and sentence construction! 

"This" pen shall not run out of ink until my letter is written.  Am I talking about another pen? Am I talking about "that" pen which will be sold 2,000 years from now?

Accept the truth. It's blantantly obvious!

inthenow

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 04:31:08 PM »
If a teacher stood before you today in junior high school history class and spoke of the time when President Kennedy was assassinated... and they said "This generation knew what it was like to have their popular leader struck down."

Would you think the teacher was referring to this generation seated in their classroom today?

Or would you interpret it as meaning THAT generation that lived when Kennedy was assassinated?

The same communicative logic applies to Jesus' words.

He said the generation that sees all the signs he just spoke of will not pass until all is fulfilled.

It's not rocket science folks.


Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this?

Matthew 17:1-8 was a peek into the future.

1 Corinthians 15:1-6 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

He came to Paul on several occasions and to John in Revelation who actually saw him sitting on the throne of the Father.



You must not have passed English grammar and sentence construction! 

"This" pen shall not run out of ink until my letter is written.  Am I talking about another pen? Am I talking about "that" pen which will be sold 2,000 years from now?

Accept the truth. It's blantantly obvious!
No, that was me.
Accuse the right person.

Lehigh

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 04:45:42 PM »
If a teacher stood before you today in junior high school history class and spoke of the time when President Kennedy was assassinated... and they said "This generation knew what it was like to have their popular leader struck down."

Would you think the teacher was referring to this generation seated in their classroom today?

Or would you interpret it as meaning THAT generation that lived when Kennedy was assassinated?

The same communicative logic applies to Jesus' words.

He said the generation that sees all the signs he just spoke of will not pass until all is fulfilled.

It's not rocket science folks.


Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this?

Matthew 17:1-8 was a peek into the future.

1 Corinthians 15:1-6 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

He came to Paul on several occasions and to John in Revelation who actually saw him sitting on the throne of the Father.



You must not have passed English grammar and sentence construction! 

"This" pen shall not run out of ink until my letter is written.  Am I talking about another pen? Am I talking about "that" pen which will be sold 2,000 years from now?

Accept the truth. It's blantantly obvious!
No, that was me.
Accuse the right person.

OK, since you must be feeling guilty, because the word "this" means "this" and not that!

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2012, 07:49:53 PM »
You must not have passed English grammar and sentence construction! 

"This" pen shall not run out of ink until my letter is written.  Am I talking about another pen? Am I talking about "that" pen which will be sold 2,000 years from now?
Does it matter that the Bible wasn't written in English?

inthenow

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 03:38:08 AM »
If a teacher stood before you today in junior high school history class and spoke of the time when President Kennedy was assassinated... and they said "This generation knew what it was like to have their popular leader struck down."

Would you think the teacher was referring to this generation seated in their classroom today?

Or would you interpret it as meaning THAT generation that lived when Kennedy was assassinated?

The same communicative logic applies to Jesus' words.

He said the generation that sees all the signs he just spoke of will not pass until all is fulfilled.

It's not rocket science folks.


Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And this?

Matthew 17:1-8 was a peek into the future.

1 Corinthians 15:1-6 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

He came to Paul on several occasions and to John in Revelation who actually saw him sitting on the throne of the Father.



You must not have passed English grammar and sentence construction! 

"This" pen shall not run out of ink until my letter is written.  Am I talking about another pen? Am I talking about "that" pen which will be sold 2,000 years from now?

Accept the truth. It's blantantly obvious!
No, that was me.
Accuse the right person.

OK, since you must be feeling guilty, because the word "this" means "this" and not that!
??  just amazed at the preterists here that accuse post after post.

inthenow

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Re: This generation?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 04:11:11 PM »
You also state that world conditions are getting better and better ....

Fires, flooding, lawlessness, middle east on the verge of war, decline of  Christianity, rise of islam,
Christianity disappearing from schools and goverments, homosexual preachers, homosexual marriage, no marriage living together.
What's getting better?