Author Topic: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION  (Read 3805 times)

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Offline Seriousseeker

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A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« on: Wed Jun 01, 2011 - 15:33:37 »
How can Protestants justify showing all the ways the Roman Catholic Church does not follow the Word of God, omits Scripture, and adds ideas and innovations to the Christian faith, then goes on and does the same thing?

If professing Christians invent doctrines, rituals, rules, hierarchy, practices and activities, which are not given in the Bible, is it not a contradiction of their rejection of the RC religion?

God gave us His immutable Word and His intent for His church, yet many go off and invent religious ways they prefer.  It seems that the answer to this lies in the question above ---referring to "professing Christians" (not real ones).  A real "born again" believer in the Lord Jesus Christ would not practice such or be associated with it.  We will all have to answer to God one day, and we should be afraid of disobeying and offending God.  Let us all be very sure we are "born again" by the Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.  If one does not know about that, let them prayerfully read God's Word daily.

- Seriousseeker

Offline stevehut

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #1 on: Wed Jun 01, 2011 - 15:42:26 »
Seeker, you've raised a good point.

In my experience, most of my Protestant friends read their Bibles regularly.  Their preachers tell them they should.

Among my Catholic friends and family (several dozen, perhaps) none of them claim to, and their priests don't tell them they should. Instead they rely on the church to teach them, and if they read anything it's a missal or catechism.

Are there plenty of hypocrites among those Prot critics?. Of course.  But that doesn't mean they're wrong.

Offline Josiah

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jun 01, 2011 - 15:55:34 »
How can Protestants justify showing all the ways the Roman Catholic Church does not follow the Word of God, omits Scripture, and adds ideas and innovations to the Christian faith, then goes on and does the same thing?

If professing Christians invent doctrines, rituals, rules, hierarchy, practices and activities, which are not given in the Bible, is it not a contradiction of their rejection of the RC religion?

God gave us His immutable Word and His intent for His church, yet many go off and invent religious ways they prefer.  It seems that the answer to this lies in the question above ---referring to "professing Christians" (not real ones).  A real "born again" believer in the Lord Jesus Christ would not practice such or be associated with it.  We will all have to answer to God one day, and we should be afraid of disobeying and offending God.  Let us all be very sure we are "born again" by the Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.  If one does not know about that, let them prayerfully read God's Word daily.

- Seriousseeker


Non-Catholics CAN be guilty of, in fact, following in example of the RCC.  I wouldn't dispute that.

But I think your observation is FAR too general.  SOME Protestants may do that, but Protestants as a group?  No. 

After all, most Protestants do not teach that all practices, customs and ministries must be explicitely taught in Scripture (in fact, I PERSONALLY don't know any that do); they MAY teach that all DOCTRINES (or perhaps DOGMAS) should be substantiated by Scripture.  Apples and oranges. 

But yes, a FEW things that caused me to leave Catholicism are found in places in Protestantism (especially in the "evangelical" forms) and even more so among non-Catholic, non-Protestant groups.  Years ago, in my Soph year of college, I took a modern world history class (as I suppose we all did).  The prof had written his dissertation on and pretty much had spent his study on the issue of revolution: the causes, the dynamics, the results.  So much of our class was spent on the French, American and Russian revolutions (but dozens of more minor ones, too, such as Castros).  One of many interesting (and often counterintuitive aspects) of revolution is that such CAN "overshoot" the mark- and end up embracing the very thing it rejected (sometimes worse).  Curious.   I think SOME of that applies in the Reformation, as well - especially in the later forms of such.  But again, I'd be careful of sweeping generalizations....




.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #3 on: Wed Jun 01, 2011 - 19:50:56 »
How can Protestants justify showing all the ways the Roman Catholic Church does not follow the Word of God, omits Scripture, and adds ideas and innovations to the Christian faith, then goes on and does the same thing?

If professing Christians invent doctrines, rituals, rules, hierarchy, practices and activities, which are not given in the Bible, is it not a contradiction of their rejection of the RC religion?

God gave us His immutable Word and His intent for His church, yet many go off and invent religious ways they prefer.  It seems that the answer to this lies in the question above ---referring to "professing Christians" (not real ones).  A real "born again" believer in the Lord Jesus Christ would not practice such or be associated with it.  We will all have to answer to God one day, and we should be afraid of disobeying and offending God.  Let us all be very sure we are "born again" by the Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.  If one does not know about that, let them prayerfully read God's Word daily.

- Seriousseeker


Example of any time the Catholic added or took away from Sacred Scripture.

I can site the protestant NIV, New World Translation and other translations that clearly and boldly take away from their orinigal manuscripts right now.

Don't worry I'll wait

 ::reading::

Geesh all this talk about the RCC and no substantiation. Getting old.


Offline LightHammer

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jun 02, 2011 - 04:16:31 »
No seriously don't rush or anything to substantiate your accusations I'll wait.

::waitingpatiently::

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jun 02, 2011 - 04:16:31 »



Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 15:06:59 »
How can Protestants justify showing all the ways the Roman Catholic Church does not follow the Word of God, omits Scripture, and adds ideas and innovations to the Christian faith, then goes on and does the same thing?

If professing Christians invent doctrines, rituals, rules, hierarchy, practices and activities, which are not given in the Bible, is it not a contradiction of their rejection of the RC religion?

God gave us His immutable Word and His intent for His church, yet many go off and invent religious ways they prefer.  It seems that the answer to this lies in the question above ---referring to "professing Christians" (not real ones).  A real "born again" believer in the Lord Jesus Christ would not practice such or be associated with it.  We will all have to answer to God one day, and we should be afraid of disobeying and offending God.  Let us all be very sure we are "born again" by the Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.  If one does not know about that, let them prayerfully read God's Word daily.

- Seriousseeker


Example of any time the Catholic added or took away from Sacred Scripture.

I can site the protestant NIV, New World Translation and other translations that clearly and boldly take away from their orinigal manuscripts right now.

Don't worry I'll wait   ::reading::

Geesh all this talk about the RCC and no substantiation. Getting old.

Well, I don't want to argue, but since you asked, I have here a paper on the matter you question, and it includes there a part of the answer to the issue for you to think about:

- Seriousseeker

"SOME DOCTRINES OF ERROR AND BLASPHEMY:  Mariology, which takes the blessed mother of the Lord Jesus and exalts and deifies her as the intercessor for believers;  Praying to saints who lived hundreds of years ago;  Infantilizing the Christ, which continues to refer to Him as 'the baby Jesus' today, without regard to His Lordship, life, ministry, and supreme sacrifice for sin as a man;  Invention of doctrines, such as 'purgatory', confessions to a designated priest of men, numerous rituals and ceremonies, special religious days, claiming power to make saints; religious requirements and prohibitions, etc.;  Exalting religious men with power over people, as the Pope and his designation of priests who must be called: Father and Most Reverend, a hierarchy of controlling men, etc.;  Holding to apostolic succession, which cannot be supported by Scripture, and then disregarding the holy and royal priesthood of believers to minister, with elders appointed and led by the Holy Spirit to oversee and guide the local church;  Disregard for the full Word of God, and discouraging members from studying it;  Many other abuses.  The papal system is truly apostate and will be judged severely as shown in the Book of Revelation."  - RLD.

Offline Catholica

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 15:33:39 »
"SOME DOCTRINES OF ERROR AND BLASPHEMY:  Mariology, which takes the blessed mother of the Lord Jesus and exalts and deifies her as the intercessor for believers;


Apparently, whoever wrote this either doesn't know what "deifies" means, or doesn't understand what Catholics believe about Mary.  He clearly doesn't understand that Mary is not *the* intercessor for believers, but rather *an* intercessor for believers.  All believers are intercessors for each other to Jesus, who is our mediator of the covenant and intercessor to the Father.   Mary may be the greatest solely human intercessor in the body of believers, but she is still human and we believe that she is not God.

Praying to saints who lived hundreds of years ago;


Rev. 5:8 supports this.  Just because there is no room for this verse in Protestantism doesn't mean that what believe is false, especially since we have evidence from the Bible that it is true.

Infantilizing the Christ, which continues to refer to Him as 'the baby Jesus' today, without regard to His Lordship, life, ministry, and supreme sacrifice for sin as a man;


This is ridiculous.  No regard for his Lordship, life, ministry, supreme sacrifice?  The sacrifice of Jesus is the heart of every single mass, and Jesus sacrifice as an example of how we are asked to sacrifice is at the heart of the Catholic worldview.  We read all four gospels in mass on Sunday every three years.  We meditate continually on his life, death, and resurrection.  We see Christ in everyone and everything and strive to let him be Lord of our lives.  This statement is from someone who doesn't know the Catholic faith; just by this statement alone his credibility is completely shot.  Yes, Jesus appeared in a private revelation as a child before once or twice, and so is depicted as a child or infant.  Big deal, that doesn't mean we "infantilize the Christ".

Scriptural support added below as links or bolded verses to the so-called "inventions":

Invention of doctrines, such as 'purgatory', confessions to a designated priest of men, numerous rituals and ceremonies (Malachi 1:11 and more), special religious days (not doctrine, author displays lack of understanding of the difference between doctrine and festivals), claiming power to make saints (not doctrine, author displays lack of understanding of what it means to canonize a saint); religious requirements and prohibitions (Matthew 16:18, Matthew 18:18, author does not understand the power to bind and loose), etc.;  Exalting religious men with power over people, as the Pope and his designation of priests who must be called: Father and Most Reverend, a hierarchy of controlling men, etc.(Jesus himself put apostles in place over men, the apostles assigned deacons, later the apostles delegated mass duties to priests, the name Father in America first initiated among Protestants until the Irish came;  Holding to apostolic succession, which cannot be supported by Scripture, and then disregarding the holy and royal priesthood of believers to minister, with elders appointed and led by the Holy Spirit to oversee and guide the local church;  Disregard for the full Word of God (the full word of God is not fully contained in scripture, who again has disregard?), and discouraging members from studying it (special indulgence for spending 30 minutes in a day reading scripture);  Many other abuses (vague, and his track record for truth isn't so hot so far, so I doubt it).  The papal system is truly apostate and will be judged severely as shown in the Book of Revelation."(Misunderstanding of the words of Revelation, which were meant to apply to the book of Revelation, not the entire Bible.  - RLD.

« Last Edit: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 15:51:31 by Catholica »

Lively Stone

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 15:53:00 »
FWIW: The New World Translation is an adulteration that supports the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses, created by the Watchtower Society, and is rife with error. It is not a Christian group, nor is their 'book' the Bible.

As for the NIV, there's nothing wrong with it.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 15:55:33 »
Here we go.

Quote
Mariology, which takes the blessed mother of the Lord Jesus and exalts and deifies her as the intercessor for believers;

A mediator is one who brings estranged parties to an amicable agreement. In New Testament theology the term invariably implies that the estranged beings are God and man, and it is appropriated to Christ, the One Mediator.

Also if the Blessed Virgin intercedes for all graces that are given, this is not because God needed her intercession in any way to give them; rather, it “is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator

Offline Catholica

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 15:59:39 »
As for the NIV, there's nothing wrong with it.


There is lots wrong with it.

http://www.trustingodamerica.com/NIV.htm

Lively Stone

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 16:15:33 »
As for the NIV, there's nothing wrong with it.


There is lots wrong with it.

http://www.trustingodamerica.com/NIV.htm


No there isn't. It is a bona fide translation. Those who make claims against it don't know what they're talking about, and your link proves it.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 16:23:53 »
As for the NIV, there's nothing wrong with it.


There is lots wrong with it.

http://www.trustingodamerica.com/NIV.htm


No there isn't. It is a bona fide translation. Those who make claims against it don't know what they're talking about, and your link proves it.


I read the link.

Which part is inaccurate?


Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jun 06, 2011 - 16:37:08 »
I never intended to start a debate with RC religion members, but was sharing a problem that many Protestants have in their various denoms. that are like unto the errors the RCR has.  ANY ADDITIONS, DELETIONS, OR INNOVATIONS to the Word of God is going contrary to what God gave mankind and will hold us resposible for.  We all need to remember that, and not be following traditions and the ideas of men.

It might be better if the RC members would write on the RC page, and the Protestants write on their page, to avoid such conflicts.  It is one thing to read what the other is saying, but it is of no value to engage one in argumentation, right? 

I will leave this subject now, having made my point for all to consider.  Look up always!

- Seriousseeker

p.rehbein

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #13 on: Wed Jun 08, 2011 - 07:54:22 »
I never intended to start a debate with RC religion members, but was sharing a problem that many Protestants have in their various denoms. that are like unto the errors the RCR has.  ANY ADDITIONS, DELETIONS, OR INNOVATIONS to the Word of God is going contrary to what God gave mankind and will hold us resposible for.  We all need to remember that, and not be following traditions and the ideas of men.

It might be better if the RC members would write on the RC page, and the Protestants write on their page, to avoid such conflicts.  It is one thing to read what the other is saying, but it is of no value to engage one in argumentation, right? 

I will leave this subject now, having made my point for all to consider.  Look up always!

- Seriousseeker


Serious..............good luck with this idea..................see, the way it works is that Catholics watch intently for any new post here and do not hesitate to jump in with their beliefs/ideology...........yet, should a non-Catholic venture over to their forum, they will quickly suggest not so quietly that you should go away from their forum..............yeah, I know, but that is the way it is here...


Offline LightHammer

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #14 on: Wed Jun 08, 2011 - 08:45:20 »
Yea right dude. We welcome all noncatholics you wish to debate principles and not personalities. Facts not fiction. Catholicism and not the make believe protestant catolicism that is completely contrary to what the real Catholic Church is.

You're right about one thing I do search this site. I search every inch of it because protestants are sick with misinformation and misrepresentations when it comes to the Catholic Church. They all have opinions and they all like to voice those opinions no matter how untrue they are. I watch this site so when a protestant opens their mouth in regards to the Catholic Church on anything, I make sure they do so with honestly with informed reasoning and evidence. If they don't I make them wish they never opened their mouths in the first place. The time when lying about the Church went unchallenged is pretty much over. If you want to discuss someone's Faith or make accussations against their Faith you better be able to back it up or you won't like how the debates go down. And that's just how it REALLY is.


And miss me with the victim act. There are plenty of protestants who disagree with Catholicism that debate us all the time who we have never ever complained about. Stevehut, Pointmade,  HRobernson, Snargles, Wednesday, Larry2, etc.

We complain only about those who lie about what Catholics believe and do and those who in that falsehood hound us while refusing to be corrected so that honest debating can take place.

 

p.rehbein

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jun 08, 2011 - 09:30:12 »
We complain only about those who lie about what Catholics believe and do and those who in that falsehood hound us while refusing to be corrected so that honest debating can take place.
----------------------------------

anyone who doubts my statement only has to venture over to the Catholic forum and read the thread titled "Infant Baptism" to see that I spoke the truth.


Offline stevehut

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #16 on: Wed Jun 08, 2011 - 09:55:16 »
There are plenty of protestants who disagree with Catholicism that debate us all the time who we have never ever complained about. Stevehut, Pointmade,  HRobernson, Snargles, Wednesday, Larry2, etc.


Wait, was that a compliment?   ::eek::  Nah, couldn't be. 

Maybe I should speak up more often.

Offline highrigger

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Re: A PROTESTANT CONTRADICTION
« Reply #17 on: Sat Jun 18, 2011 - 13:17:53 »
Quote
It might be better if the RC members would write on the RC page, and the Protestants write on their page, to avoid such conflicts.  It is one thing to read what the other is saying, but it is of no value to engage one in argumentation, right? 

Hi serious,

No. Wrong. And the reason is if noone can discuss and debate differences there is no understanding of the other. But it should always be done civilly with respect for other christians. If makes me learn to research these subjects and if no challenge then no learning. But the key is proper behavior. Unfortunately many cannot discuss properly because they dont know how to and like Lenin they substitute abuse for argument. But when they do that they display for all to see they are simply missing out on the fruits of the spirit. JohnR

 

     
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