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Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« on: Fri Feb 17, 2017 - 17:25:50 »
Confession of Faith
I believe in God, the Almighty, Father, Creator
of heavens and earth,
and in Jesus Christ his only-begotten Son, our Lord,
conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary,
who under Pontius Pilate suffered and was crucified,
who descended into hell, died and was buried
and on the third day according to the Scriptures rose
from the dead,
who ascended to heaven and sits on the right hand of
the power of God,
hence He shall come to judge the living and the dead,
I believe in the Holy Spirit;
I believe one Christian Church of the elect,
the holy communion of believers,
the forgiveness of sin, the everlasting life and the resurrection,
in the glorified body of flesh.

I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon
of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.
God speaks in the Scriptures
through his Spirit in the Congregation
of the Son in Whom we have life.

The Election of God :
The reconciliation and justification in Jesus Christ of those
according to God’s Eternal Predestination and Purpose
in Covenant of Grace elected and
in the Baptism of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit
sealed and attested in regeneration and sanctification
of repentance and conversion, of redemption from sin, and
of growth and perseverance in faith.

The Lord’s Supper of bread, wine and the washing of feet,
as through faith partaking of Jesus Christ, of his body and of his blood, his Salvation proclaiming and Return expecting.
The Lord’s Day
the Sabbath of the Lord thy God,
for God concerning the Seventh Day thus spoke,
and God on the Seventh Day from all his works rested
according to the working of the exceeding greatness
of his mighty power which He wrought in Christ
when He raised Him from the dead
and finished all his works He had made
to reign, the King, for ever and ever.

Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ Home Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith

To joy in the Fellowship of Christians persuaded by God of the sanctity of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God for to be the Lord Jesus’ Day of Worship-Rest.
The urgency of Sabbaths’ celebration for the Christian Faith and Church, springs from the knowledge of the energy of God’s operation in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Ephesians 1:17-23.

The Sabbath, its engagement and enjoyment, are grounded in Divine Election and Predestination and realised in the “Gospel of God concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord”, whom God the Father “Declared the Son of God with Power according to the Spirit of Holiness by resurrection from the dead:— by Whom we have received Grace for the obedience of the Faith for His Name among all nations, among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ, to the end ye may be established and comforted by the mutual faith in the Gospel of His Son.” Romans 1:1...12.

Therefore we remember and celebrate “The Lord’s Day”, Sabbaths’ Eating and Drinking of the Lord’s Feast, holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, growing with the growth of God, proclaiming Jesus Christ Raised from the dead. (Col2:12-19)
“Where two or three are gathered together
in My Name, there I am in the midst of them.”
We are not a ‘Church’ – new, or, another!
We do not take money or favours!
We don’t have nor desire an ‘earthly tabernacle’ to worship!
We do not want ‘growth’ in numbers!
We do not ‘count the nation’ or record attendance!
We do not baptise!
We do not convert!
We are few, and will stay few.
We believe because God had given us faith first.
We love because God first loved us.
We love the Fellowship of Christ, and in Christ.
We love the Name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
We love the fear of God and His Word Proclaimed.
We love the pure Gospel of God’s free Grace. 
We love the knowledge and increase in the knowledge of Christ.
We are not ashamed of, nor let ourselves be judged with regard to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Ro1:16, Col2:16)
Therefore we remember and celebrate “The Lord’s Day” Sabbaths’ Eating and Drinking of the Lord’s Feast, holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, growing with the growth of God, proclaiming Jesus Christ Raised from the dead. (Col2:12-19)
“For this cause we do not cease to pray that ye might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding.” (Col1:9)
‘Singing in our heart to the Lord’, we ‘sing with the spirit and with understanding’, ‘speaking to ourselves in Psalms’. (Col3:16, 1Cor14:15, Eph5:9,19)
We abhor self-righteousness or ‘legalism’.
We abhor self-satisfaction or complacency.
We abhor boasting or distinction of men.


Join in Sabbath’s Celebration and Fellowship through the study and proclamation of the Word ‘according to the Scriptures’...
Sola fides
Sola gratia
Solus Christus
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

Ginger Rella

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 21, 2018 - 08:57:04 »
Confession of Faith
I believe in God, the Almighty, Father, Creator
of heavens and earth,
and in Jesus Christ his only-begotten Son, our Lord,
conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary,
who under Pontius Pilate suffered and was crucified,
who descended into hell, died and was buried
and on the third day according to the Scriptures rose
from the dead,
who ascended to heaven and sits on the right hand of
the power of God,
hence He shall come to judge the living and the dead,
I believe in the Holy Spirit;
I believe one Christian Church of the elect,
the holy communion of believers,
the forgiveness of sin, the everlasting life and the resurrection,
in the glorified body of flesh.

I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon
of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.
God speaks in the Scriptures
through his Spirit in the Congregation
of the Son in Whom we have life.

The Election of God :
The reconciliation and justification in Jesus Christ of those
according to God’s Eternal Predestination and Purpose
in Covenant of Grace elected and
in the Baptism of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit
sealed and attested in regeneration and sanctification
of repentance and conversion, of redemption from sin, and
of growth and perseverance in faith.

The Lord’s Supper of bread, wine and the washing of feet,
as through faith partaking of Jesus Christ, of his body and of his blood, his Salvation proclaiming and Return expecting.
The Lord’s Day
the Sabbath of the Lord thy God,
for God concerning the Seventh Day thus spoke,
and God on the Seventh Day from all his works rested
according to the working of the exceeding greatness
of his mighty power which He wrought in Christ
when He raised Him from the dead
and finished all his works He had made
to reign, the King, for ever and ever.

Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ Home Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith

To joy in the Fellowship of Christians persuaded by God of the sanctity of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God for to be the Lord Jesus’ Day of Worship-Rest.
The urgency of Sabbaths’ celebration for the Christian Faith and Church, springs from the knowledge of the energy of God’s operation in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Ephesians 1:17-23.

The Sabbath, its engagement and enjoyment, are grounded in Divine Election and Predestination and realised in the “Gospel of God concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord”, whom God the Father “Declared the Son of God with Power according to the Spirit of Holiness by resurrection from the dead:— by Whom we have received Grace for the obedience of the Faith for His Name among all nations, among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ, to the end ye may be established and comforted by the mutual faith in the Gospel of His Son.” Romans 1:1...12.

Therefore we remember and celebrate “The Lord’s Day”, Sabbaths’ Eating and Drinking of the Lord’s Feast, holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, growing with the growth of God, proclaiming Jesus Christ Raised from the dead. (Col2:12-19)
“Where two or three are gathered together
in My Name, there I am in the midst of them.”
We are not a ‘Church’ – new, or, another!
We do not take money or favours!
We don’t have nor desire an ‘earthly tabernacle’ to worship!
We do not want ‘growth’ in numbers!
We do not ‘count the nation’ or record attendance!
We do not baptise!
We do not convert!
We are few, and will stay few.
We believe because God had given us faith first.
We love because God first loved us.
We love the Fellowship of Christ, and in Christ.
We love the Name of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
We love the fear of God and His Word Proclaimed.
We love the pure Gospel of God’s free Grace. 
We love the knowledge and increase in the knowledge of Christ.
We are not ashamed of, nor let ourselves be judged with regard to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Ro1:16, Col2:16)
Therefore we remember and celebrate “The Lord’s Day” Sabbaths’ Eating and Drinking of the Lord’s Feast, holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, growing with the growth of God, proclaiming Jesus Christ Raised from the dead. (Col2:12-19)
“For this cause we do not cease to pray that ye might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding.” (Col1:9)
‘Singing in our heart to the Lord’, we ‘sing with the spirit and with understanding’, ‘speaking to ourselves in Psalms’. (Col3:16, 1Cor14:15, Eph5:9,19)
We abhor self-righteousness or ‘legalism’.
We abhor self-satisfaction or complacency.
We abhor boasting or distinction of men.


Join in Sabbath’s Celebration and Fellowship through the study and proclamation of the Word ‘according to the Scriptures’...
Sola fides
Sola gratia
Solus Christus
Soli Deo Gloria
Sola Scriptura

And old topic, but one that begs a comment.

You lost me at.........

We do not baptise!

You claim , under Confession of Faith

"I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon
of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.
God speaks in the Scriptures
through his Spirit in the Congregation
of the Son in Whom we have life."

You cannot have a confession of faith including ....I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon
of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.

and include "We do not baptise!"

Because baptism is all over the new testament.




Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #2 on: Sun Jan 21, 2018 - 11:00:59 »
Quote
And old topic, but one that begs a comment.

You lost me at.........

We do not baptise!

You claim , under Confession of Faith

"I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon
of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.
God speaks in the Scriptures
through his Spirit in the Congregation
of the Son in Whom we have life."

You cannot have a confession of faith including ....I believe the Scriptures, the true, only and closed canon
of authority for and in the faith, doctrine and living.

and include "We do not baptise!"

Because baptism is all over the new testament.

Thank you for replying!

"Jesus, did not baptise, but his disciples (not apostles yet), baptised."

And when having been made MANDATED apostles of Jesus by His 'Great Commission', the apostles, no others, received commission to baptise, not, 'in water', but, "IN THE NAME...". And the Baptism In The Name they went out to proclaim and did preach, as Jesus' "SENT", i.e., as his "apostles". Today's True Believers are just that; they are not the Twelve; they are just 'followers' and 'learners'---'disciples'.

In any case, water-baptism definitely, is not 'all over the new testament'.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 21, 2018 - 13:58:14 »
In any case, water-baptism definitely, is not 'all over the new testament'.
Of course it is.

Ginger Rella

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 21, 2018 - 16:32:08 »


In any case, water-baptism definitely, is not 'all over the new testament'.

We know there are 27 books in the Protestant New Testament. The following are from 13 books of the 27 books of the New Testament. If you do not count the book of Revelation then baptism is mentioned in 50% and that pretty much does say all over.

  The most important is Mark 16:16 where Jesus , Himself, said
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The 2nd most important is Jesus' instructions

Matt.28

1.      [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

King James Verses: on the mention of Baptism

Matt.3

1.      [1] In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

2.      [6] And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

3.      [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

4.      [13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

5.      [14] But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

6.      [16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matt.20

1.      [22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

2.      [23] And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matt.28

1.      [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mark.1

1.      [4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

2.      [5] And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

3.      [8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

4.      [9] And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

Mark.16

1.      [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke.3

1.      [3] And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

2.      [7] Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

3.      [12] Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?

4.      [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

5.      [21] Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

Luke.7

1.      [20] When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

2.      [28] For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

3.      [29] And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

4.      [30] But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

Luke.12

1.      [50] But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

 

John.1

1.      [31] And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

2.      [33] And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

John.3

1.      [22] After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

2.      [23] And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

3.      [26] And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

John.4

1.      [1] When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

2.      [2] (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

3.       

Acts.1

1.      [5] For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts.2

1.      [38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2.      [41] Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts.8

1.      [12] But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

2.      [13] Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

 

3.      [36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

4.      [38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Acts.9

1.      [18] And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Acts.10

1.      [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

2.      [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts.11

1.      [16] Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Acts.13

1.      [24] When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Acts.16

1.      [15] And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

2.      [33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Acts.18

1.      [8] And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Acts.19

1.      [3] And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

2.      [4] Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

3.      [5] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts.22

1.      [16] And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom.6

1.      [3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

2.      [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

1Cor.10

1.      [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

1Cor.12

1.      [13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Cor.15

1.      [29] Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Gal.3

1.      [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph.4

1.      [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Col.2

1.      [12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Heb.6

1.      [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

1Pet.3

1.      [21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

I will conclude with 2  questions.

If baptism was not needed, then why was Jesus baptised by John?

If baptism was not needed then why did Jesus command them to go  teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?










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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 21, 2018 - 16:32:08 »



Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jan 21, 2018 - 23:05:08 »
We know there are 27 books in the Protestant New Testament. The following are from 13 books of the 27 books of the New Testament. If you do not count the book of Revelation then baptism is mentioned in 50% and that pretty much does say all over.

  The most important is Mark 16:16 where Jesus , Himself, said
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Everything after v. 8 is dubious.

Quote
The 2nd most important is Jesus' instructions

Matt.28

1.      [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

No disputing that one.

Quote

King James Verses: on the mention of Baptism ...

If the point is to argue in favor of the necessity of water baptism, several of those citations have the opposite force.  Baptism in the Spirit, at least in the Gospels, is presented as a replacement for water baptism.

Quote
I will conclude with 2  questions.

If baptism was not needed, then why was Jesus baptised by John?

Even if it somehow really was "needed," it was not "needed" by Jesus.  He had no sin to wash away.  He had nothing of which to repent.  He had no need to be "born again" in any sense.  Matt. 3 shows that John recognized this, and was reluctant to baptize Him, but eventually "permitted" it.  Most likely in that instance it was "needed" in order for Jesus to more perfectly identify with Israel and their corporate need for conversion.

Quote
If baptism was not needed then why did Jesus command them to go  teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?

It was a widely recognized and symbolism-rich way of publicly demonstrating conversion.

Ginger Rella

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jan 22, 2018 - 09:21:37 »


If the point is to argue in favor of the necessity of water baptism, several of those citations have the opposite force.

NOOOOOOOOOOO.  I am not arguing in favor of water baptism, and you are correct that several of the citations are not promoting that.

I was replying to the idea

First. "We do not baptise!"

I replied " Because baptism is all over the new testament."

To which came a rebuttal of " In any case, water-baptism definitely, is not 'all over the new testament'."

I never said water baptism, because of the way the OP stated "We do not baptise!"

So I rounded up those verses that have the word Baptism in them... (Baptism of any kind)... to show baptism is all over the New Testament

I am not... repeat AM NOT... getting into any water Baptism debate. That has been done enough on GC.

But when someone has a doctrine, based on what they perceive to be the truth, and I can show some evidence that they may be in error then I speak up.

To the OP....

You state

""Jesus, did not baptise, but his disciples (not apostles yet), baptised."

And when having been made MANDATED apostles of Jesus by His 'Great Commission', the apostles, no others, received commission to baptise, not, 'in water', but, "IN THE NAME...". And the Baptism In The Name they went out to proclaim and did preach, as Jesus' "SENT", i.e., as his "apostles". Today's True Believers are just that; they are not the Twelve; they are just 'followers' and 'learners'---'disciples'. "

If you want to get totally technical.... since there were really no "groups" in existence,(ie Christian) until Jesus gave his instructions to His disciples/apostles  and they went out to proclaim the word, this is also wrong because it was only the disciples/apostles wh assembled.

"Sabbaths’ Feast of Christ Home Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith

No home assemblies should be either....

 

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Confession of Faith and being Protestant an example
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jan 26, 2018 - 18:08:44 »
Quote
  The most important is Mark 16:16 where Jesus , Himself, said
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

He believing [ho pisteusas]
and being baptised [kai baptistheis]
will be saved [sohthehsetai]
and he disbelieving [ho de apistehsas]
will be condemned [katakrithehsetai].

Mark 16:16, "He-believing-and-being-baptised" is a Participle construct, "he-the-being-faith-baptized-believing" person baptised with or in the 'baptism of Jesus', will be saved--  the opposite of "he-the-disbelieving" person, who will be condemned. 

Mark 16:16 says only what Matthew says, to be faith-baptised being "baptized-in-the-Name".




« Last Edit: Fri Jan 26, 2018 - 18:12:05 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »