Author Topic: why my Church don't...........  (Read 2196 times)

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p.rehbein

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why my Church don't...........
« on: Sat Feb 12, 2011 - 07:40:56 »
this quote borrowed from the EOF/CD's comment there:


Now, as to our worship services, yes, they follow a very formal liturgy with vestments, incense, bells, candles, icons, and Holy Communion.  All five senses are continuously engaged to assist our hearts and minds in the focus on and contemplation of the Gospel story as it is enacted before us, preached to us, and proclaimed from the Scriptures among us.  And yes, there are explicit and detailed instructions (rubrics) which proscribe how such worship is to take place.

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Why we don't do a lot of this is because it isn't in the Scriptures as having been done by the Church after Pentacost.  IMO only, much of this sounds somewhat like the services in the Jewish Temples and not so much a practice of the Church that Jesus established and which came into being after Pentacost.  Since the Church was pretty much under constant assault and believers were being arrested, imprisoned and even put to death, they certainly wouldn't go to these lengths to worship when they met.  It is true that we believe that The Word of God is the One True Authority, however, we do have spiritual leaders within our Church and we respect them and listen to them but we don't elevate them above any other member as to who is "most saved/worthy" of being called a child of God.  

We certainly celebrate Communion (usually once monthly or so, no set time, Jesus said "as often as you would"), as well, we celebrate Baptismal and Foot Washing because Jesus told us to do these too.  Now, we may be the only Church (CoG, Anderson,In) who celebrate Foot Washing, but just saying what we do.  We pretty much have all our senses engaged as well, we just don't use those things y'all do to achieve their engagement.

Not 'dissing here.  I have no problem with anyone worshiping however they wish, just saying why we don't do certain things.


Offline trifecta

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #1 on: Sat Feb 12, 2011 - 20:49:23 »
Hi p!

Yeah, I catch your drift.  I don't see the NT addressing the ornateness of services either way. 

There is a fine line between reverence and accessibility.   In today's culture, ornateness seems off-putting. 
I fear that many newer churches have limited reverence in favor of comfort (coffee bars) and displaying one's talents
(worship band) .


I have to disagree that you engage all five senses,  because you lack incense, even though Scripture itself calls for it in worship (Mal 1:11).

(On the other hand, Emergent Churchs might be using incense these days).


p.rehbein

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #2 on: Sun Feb 13, 2011 - 19:40:25 »
Hi p!

Yeah, I catch your drift.  I don't see the NT addressing the ornateness of services either way. 

There is a fine line between reverence and accessibility.   In today's culture, ornateness seems off-putting. 
I fear that many newer churches have limited reverence in favor of comfort (coffee bars) and displaying one's talents
(worship band) .


I have to disagree that you engage all five senses,  because you lack incense, even though Scripture itself calls for it in worship (Mal 1:11).

(On the other hand, Emergent Churchs might be using incense these days).



Good to hear from ya Tri!   ::tippinghat::

We ususally have fresh cut flowers when they are available, but we always have various blooming house plants, so there actual is an aroma to enjoy/be aware of........

I would not be against incense actually, but methinks there are some of the "elders" who might think I've completely lost it!

 ::smile::

Offline mclees8

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #3 on: Mon Feb 14, 2011 - 12:44:17 »
Hi p!

Yeah, I catch your drift.  I don't see the NT addressing the ornateness of services either way. 

There is a fine line between reverence and accessibility.   In today's culture, ornateness seems off-putting. 
I fear that many newer churches have limited reverence in favor of comfort (coffee bars) and displaying one's talents
(worship band) .


I have to disagree that you engage all five senses,  because you lack incense, even though Scripture itself calls for it in worship (Mal 1:11).

(On the other hand, Emergent Churchs might be using incense these days).




I respect PR for why they do not do all the outward forms of religion. I do have a problem with his respecting others who do use vain  forms and ritual. They borrow from the Old Testament and it has no place in the New Testament church. It is only religious show business that Christ never instituted to be any part of his New Testament church. The rule of thumb here is if Jesus did did not command it and the apostles never did it then don't do it. This will bring opposition I know. Yet I am strongly against vain shows of religion that impresses only men but does not impress God.

Lively Stone

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 14, 2011 - 12:47:06 »
I respect PR for why they do not do all the outward forms of religion. I do have a problem with his respecting others who do use vain  forms and ritual. They borrow from the Old Testament and it has no place in the New Testament church. It is only religious show business that Christ never instituted to be any part of his New Testament church. The rule of thumb here is if Jesus did did not command it and the apostles never did it then don't do it. This will bring opposition I know. Yet I am strongly against vain shows of religion that impresses only men but does not impress God.


Good post!

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 14, 2011 - 12:47:06 »



p.rehbein

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #5 on: Mon Feb 14, 2011 - 17:37:19 »
I simply do not believe in criticizing how others choose to worship God.  It's not my place, and given how many Churches criticize my Church, I know how it feels to be spoken of in such a way when one's only intention is to worship God.

It's that "if for you it is a sin, then it is a sin."  I can only speak for me and don't try to insist others follow me and worship exactly as I do.  Given the state of the world we live in, I respect anyone who holds true to their faith.

That's just me though, so, grain of salt.................

 ::smile:: ::amen!::

Offline trifecta

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Re: why my Church don't...........
« Reply #6 on: Mon Feb 14, 2011 - 17:54:21 »
McLees and Lively Stone,

You have made an assumption that is very untrue in liturgical churches-- We do rituals to try to impress God. 
Nothing could be further from the truth. Firstly, why would you assume that a ritual is done to impress anybody?

Why would you assume that NT worship would be different than OT worship?  Since there is nothing about
new worship styles in the NT, so why make the assumption that worship would be so totally different?

And as usual, you never considered the historical evidence that shows that early church worship was
indeed liturigical.

Ritual does not need to be done to impress someone.  On the contrary, more individualistic worship
styles are more likely to head in this direction.  Worship in my church stresses humility before God,
and isn't that how it should be?

 

     
anything