hope for the movement

[James Rondon]

Why was there so much division in Rome, in Paul's day? Chapter 16 reveals several churches in that one city.

[stevehut]

James, maybe you're more discerning than I am, but...  I just don't see it.


1I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant[a] of the church in Cenchrea. 2I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me. 3Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus. 4They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. 5Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia. 6Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you. 7Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. 8Greet Ampliatus, whom I love in the Lord. 9Greet Urbanus, our fellow worker in Christ, and my dear friend Stachys. 10Greet Apelles, tested and approved in Christ. Greet those who belong to the household of Aristobulus. 11Greet Herodion, my relative. Greet those in the household of Narcissus who are in the Lord. 12Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord. 13Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too. 14Greet Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermes, Patrobas, Hermas and the brothers with them. 15Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas and all the saints with them. 16Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings.

 17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

 20The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
      The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

 21Timothy, my fellow worker, sends his greetings to you, as do Lucius, Jason and Sosipater, my relatives.

 22I, Tertius, who wrote down this letter, greet you in the Lord.

 23Gaius, whose hospitality I and the whole church here enjoy, sends you his greetings.
      Erastus, who is the city's director of public works, and our brother Quartus send you their greetings.

 25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

[James Rondon]

James, maybe you're more discerning than I am, but...  I just don't see it.

3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. 5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house.

14 Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them.

15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

Also, the references in verses 10 and 11 may refer to more churches. Furthermore, having identified a list of other Christians throughout the chapter, who are mentioned apart from the couple of churches that were specifically listed, one can assume that there is at least one other church in Rome as well, if not more, which these brethren are joined to (or make up), and which Paul has not specifically mentioned.

[stevehut]

Still not seeing it, James.  Yes, house churches were common in the early going, I get that. But...sectarian division?  Not the same thing.

[James Rondon]

I agree that they are not the same thing. There is a sentiment from some, however, (and from what I read of your posts on this thread, it seems that you would be included in this some) that more than one church in one city is equivalent to division. If that were, indeed, the case, it would seem that Paul's greetings at the end of his letter to the Romans would have also included some correction, especially considering what he wrote in verse 17.

[stevehut]

There is a sentiment from some, however, (and from what I read of your posts on this thread, it seems that you would be included in this some) that more than one church in one city is equivalent to division.

No, that is not what I believe -- although, now that I re-read my previous posts, perhaps it seems that way.

Small, private house churches were necessary in light of Roman persecution.  They didn't meet separately because they couldn't get along, or because some had superstar preachers, or because some were preaching heresies.  House churches served a practical need.

There may have been thousands of Christians in the bigger cities (Rome, Ephesus, Corinth), but it's probably hard for such a large group to meet secretly.  Hence, small groups.

That is not the case in the US today.  Modern churches are often established because the people can't get along, or to rally around a superstar preacher, or because they preach very different doctrines.

[sidwms]

To the Forum:

I am 75 years old (other side of 1948), and a Restoration Movement historian.
My history is in a commentary on Revelation (which all churches today deny is prophecy).
A speaker specializing in prophecy taught a summary of Revelatioin in one hour.

"I was shocked!"

He taught me that Revelation is progressive history to the End of Time, and, "Jesus lives today -- on earth!"

I had never heard that before.

When I got older, I studied Bible commentaries from 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, and to 1945.

Guess what!

They told the same story, and they all predicted that your fathers in the faith would be deceived by Satan and Gog and Magog; Rev 20.7-10.

Why do you deny this part of the Bible?

I have witnessed personally, "Gog deceiving in 1960."

The congregation of my youth, where I was introduced to, "The Living God," does not believe Revelation or The Living God today!

The 1800s teaching was better than yours.

In Extreme Love,

[DCR]

sidwms,

I'm not quite sure... I even know what you're talking about. 

The 1800s teaching was better than yours.

What 1800s teaching? 

Who's denying the book of Revelation?

[zoonance]

Maybe I am Gog.  I was born in 1960.  If I am deceiving you all, I don't know how.