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Offline Mere Nick

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Musicators!
« on: Wed Nov 06, 2019 - 09:37:38 »
There!  I said it and I ain't taking it back, either.  Seriously, I stop by here several times and week and don't see anything going on.  Take this as me saying hi to folks.   

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Musicators!
« on: Wed Nov 06, 2019 - 09:37:38 »

Offline yogi bear

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #1 on: Wed Nov 06, 2019 - 09:45:20 »
Whats your thought on musicators?? Would love to hear all about them. SPEAK UP!!!

Offline Alan

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #2 on: Wed Nov 06, 2019 - 10:52:36 »
 ::playingguitar:: ::band::

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #3 on: Wed Nov 06, 2019 - 13:17:42 »
We don't have musicatin' going on when our congregation meets.  I miss KS but appreciate his introducing that word to me. 

Offline Johnb

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #4 on: Tue Dec 10, 2019 - 21:01:36 »
The places I hang out has lots of musicators and it is OK I still prefer the old hymnals and no instruments .  If of course the assembly can carry a tune.  One thing I feel is lost with the “praise teams” is congregation participation. 

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #4 on: Tue Dec 10, 2019 - 21:01:36 »



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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #5 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 05:24:02 »
The places I hang out has lots of musicators and it is OK I still prefer the old hymnals and no instruments .  If of course the assembly can carry a tune.  One thing I feel is lost with the “praise teams” is congregation participation.
AMEN and AMEN.  However, the assembly can not carry a tune. Some carry it well enough to make it seem like the assembly can carry a tune.  I have no problem with instruments per se; however, I think one of the worst things to ever happen in today's Sunday services is the loss of congregational singing which has come with the sound booth and the accompanying electronic musicatin'.  So much of what passes for the song service today is ear-splitting heavy metal entertainment. I think most of those folks truly believe that God is deaf.  Most today have no idea what real congregational singing even is. There are few things more enjoyable that participating in a real honest-to-goodness singspiration where the songs are sung from a hymnal, nearly everyone participates and there is often even some harmony to be heard.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #6 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 05:31:32 »
Nothing better than good acappela singing. And nothing worse than bad acappela singing. Instrument CAN help but definitely must be subtle and not the main course. I really like listening to the Gaither’s style of music. Outstanding 4 part harmony with just the right level of instrumental accompaniment, the best of both worlds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nJ6wQpLmuo
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 05:39:31 by Jaime »

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #7 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 06:18:06 »
Nothing better than good acappela singing. And nothing worse than bad acappela singing. Instrument CAN help but definitely must be subtle and not the main course. I really like listening to the Gaither’s style of music. Outstanding 4 part harmony with just the right level of instrumental accompaniment, the best of both worlds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nJ6wQpLmuo

Great instrumental solo > great a capella.

A good solo during offertory is great.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #8 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 07:00:36 »
AMEN and AMEN.  However, the assembly can not carry a tune. Some carry it well enough to make it seem like the assembly can carry a tune.  I have no problem with instruments per se; however, I think one of the worst things to ever happen in today's Sunday services is the loss of congregational singing which has come with the sound booth and the accompanying electronic musicatin'.  So much of what passes for the song service today is ear-splitting heavy metal entertainment. I think most of those folks truly believe that God is deaf.  Most today have no idea what real congregational singing even is. There are few things more enjoyable that participating in a real honest-to-goodness singspiration where the songs are sung from a hymnal, nearly everyone participates and there is often even some harmony to be heard.
Amen my brother, well stated.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #9 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 07:15:08 »
I really like listening to the Gaither’s style of music. Outstanding 4 part harmony with just the right level of instrumental accompaniment, the best of both worlds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0nJ6wQpLmuo
Brother, I have listened to Bill Gaither's style for several hours to see if they indeed do it to the glory of God, and have come to the conclusion that that is not my type of praising God~it seems to me that they do it "professionally" to entertain than for Paul's reason why we should sing.
Quote from: Paul
Ephesians 5:19~"Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"
Nevertheless, I will not judge them, or others, for I cannot see into their hearts~it is just "my personal convictions", but to every man based on his own conscience before God. We all must serve God in spirit and truth and are not here to entertain folks FLESHLY desires and to received praise from them for our gift of singing. Besides, singing is a SAMLL part of us worshipping and praising God~our good works of righteousness, and love is greater than any offering of a gift freely given to us, for even the world has THIS GIFT~but biblical love and godly fruits they have none.   

Offline Jaime

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #10 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 08:09:20 »
I like their product, the music, and I especially love their joyful faces, reminded me of my dad’s family reunions back home except no instruments. The joy of the Lord on everyone’s faces! It would be hard not to be joyful participating in that kind and quality of worship music. I remember driving about a hundred miles each day to Big Lake, Texas and singing along with the Gaithers rendition of It Is Well with tears in my eyes as oil field trucks impatiently passed me on the little two lane road. I saw them in person once in Lubbock and was forever changed. I recommended to a co worker to see them in another city on a Friday night. He said he enjoyed it but he felt like it was a worship service and it made him uncomfortable since it wasn’t Sunday morning. I said YESSSSS! It definitely IS a worship experience, though not familiar to an old cofc-er like my friend!

Then there is another song, Mark Lowry’s Mary Did You Know! A modern day classic.
« Last Edit: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 08:35:32 by Jaime »

Offline Norton

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #11 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 13:33:46 »
I like their product, the music, and I especially love their joyful faces, reminded me of my dad’s family reunions back home except no instruments. The joy of the Lord on everyone’s faces! It would be hard not to be joyful participating in that kind and quality of worship music. I remember driving about a hundred miles each day to Big Lake, Texas and singing along with the Gaithers rendition of It Is Well with tears in my eyes as oil field trucks impatiently passed me on the little two lane road. I saw them in person once in Lubbock and was forever changed. I recommended to a co worker to see them in another city on a Friday night. He said he enjoyed it but he felt like it was a worship service and it made him uncomfortable since it wasn’t Sunday morning. I said YESSSSS! It definitely IS a worship experience, though not familiar to an old cofc-er like my friend.

Then there is another song, Mark Lowry’s Mary Did You Know! A modern day classic.
Sounds like we have similar backgrounds. There were eight siblings in my dad's family that grew up poor in West Texas but were all good singers. Basses, tenors, and altos. They lacked a good soprano until some of them married. But the tradition of four part harmony has carried down three generations from some them. I didn't inherit much natural musical ability myself. I can sing a decent tenor part on easy music and if the notes are not too high. Still have a love for vocal four part harmony.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #12 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 13:43:26 »
I was totally blown away by the shaped note music in the hymnals. I have cousins from Cross Plains Texas that can’t read a line of music but can read shaped notes. They don’t use a pitch pipe either. They set the tune of a song by humming do ray me fa so la te do.

Where abouts in West Texas was some of your family from. I grew up northwest of Lubbock in a farming community called Shallowater.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 13:49:34 by Jaime »

Offline Norton

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #13 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 18:01:55 »
Shaped notes is all I know, all my church has ever used. They are obsolete now, some younger people, especially those who didn't grow up in a country church long ago are puzzled by them. They were designed for people untrained in music and without a sense of pitch to sing acapella. Just a fit for me.

My dad spent most of his childhood years in Fisher County, northwest of Abilene.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #14 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 18:43:21 »
I know it well. Pretty much the wind energy capital of the world.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 18:47:43 by Jaime »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #15 on: Tue Dec 24, 2019 - 18:50:01 »
Was your dad’s family all cotton farmers like mine?

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #16 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 09:31:51 »
My dad's father was a farmer in NE Texas, but died of a now easily curable vitamin deficiency, about 1917. My dad's mother bought land in Fisher Co where his older brothers, in their mid teens, farmed cotton to support the family. The family eventually moved back to NE Texas and continued to farm cotton. I think the land in Fisher Co is still owned by descendants of my dad's oldest brother. If they still own the land it is probably now rented out, or maybe is a windmill farm.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #17 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 09:48:13 »
My dad was a cotton farmer but never owned any land. We were share croppers as many in the community were. When I was a kid, the 7 or 8 “rich” families lived on a two block section of 8th street in their 2000 sf brick houses. Now their grandkids live in 3 story mansions casting shadows on their grandparents hovels. Times have changed. My parents about starved to death farming to my mom and dad ooened up a family restaurant which they successfully ran for 28 years until my dad died in 2001. Two careers I have shied away from, farming and restaurants. Had enough of both growing up. Though a childhood on the farm was good. I didn’t realize we were as poor as we were until years later. Nowadays most of people’s money is tied up into wealth!  ::smile::
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 06:09:01 by Jaime »

Offline Norton

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #18 on: Wed Dec 25, 2019 - 23:58:58 »
My dad died when I was 21. He had started a business in buying peanuts, but he never had the money to make it into a good business. As I said, he was one of eight children of a widow. He started out penniless. I took over the business and it eventually became moderately successful. I ran it for 30 years until peanut farming left the area. As I have reflected back, I realize he was a much better businessman than I. He saw trends and had the guts to invest what he had to make some money. He bought small parcels of land and profited on the steady increases in price. He was the first in our farming community to start selling bulk fertilizer to farmers. He was the first to build a facility to buy and dry peanuts raised in the area. He saw demands for services and tried to fill them, but never had the money to build the required handling equipment. When he died I was young, energetic, had some engineering skills, and had no wife or kids to support. Over a period of several years , I built with my own hands much of the needed equipment. That was the easy part. My dad did the hard part. I have dabbled in five businesses since getting out of the peanut business. None have been successful. The thing I should have realized earlier is that my dad was a businessman, I am a technician and builder.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #19 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 07:02:50 »
Norton, I REALLY appreciate you sharing some of your family history. It seems we do have a lot of common roots.

I am about to turn 67 in February. From what I have discerned, you are about that age, right? It’s funny I don’t recall “getting old”. It seems like I went from being the youngest guy at work to suddenly being the oldest guy!

Tell me about your family, your kids and grandkids. My wife and I have been married 46 years. We were high school sweethearts since i was a sophomore and never broke up. Our families were both share cropper cotton farmers. And we were raised in the same Church of Christ congregation, and still laugh about Ms Preston who thought ahe could sing Alto. My wife was my sister’s best friend since they were in the 4th grade. We have two daughters, 44 and 42. Both married great Christian young men and they blessed us with 2 grand daughters and 2 grandsons  and both families live here in Midland. My wife and I are richly blessed in that regard. One grandaughter is a senior in high school and the other is a junior. The oldest grandson is a sophomore and the youngest is an eighth grader. All 4 love the Lord and make me and Nanna (I am known as Papa) very proud. All of our family is still pretty conservative though both daughters do not attend a Church of Christ.

My education and work background is in construction and project management and estimating. I later got into commercial property management when we moved to Midland. In one of the oil busts here i lost my job and was out of work for about 6 months. A friend of mine offered me a job doing petroleum landwork. I had never done it, but BADLY needed a job. Before then I could hardly spell landman, now I AM one! I figured if I was going to live in one of the busiest oil patches in the world, I might as well knock heads with the rest of the oilfield trash! The ups and downs are outrageously traumatic, but I am thankful for the opportunities I have been given. The oil bust of 1986 all but put me under and our family is still reeling from the financial trauma of that year.

Anyway would love to hear more about your family, if you can share!
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 07:05:11 by Jaime »

Offline Norton

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #20 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 14:57:20 »
jaime
I am not real comfortable revealing personal information on the net, but since it is you, I will reveal more.
I am nearing 72. I married a little girl who lived in a small neighboring community. When I say little girl, I mean little girl. She was 5'1 and barely 16. That sort of thing could land a guy in big trouble these days, I was 23; but then, it was not all that uncommon. My mom married at 17, so I thought nothing about marrying a 16 year old at the time. What first drew me to her was her beauty and the fact that she was not embarrassed to talk about God. Something unusual in teenagers. Her dad came from a family of six brothers and two sisters, the same as my dad's. One of the differences in the two families was that they were Pentecostals and I was Church of Christ. I was accepted into the clan and became more comfortable in their family gatherings than I was in my own. No, I didn't convert to Pentecostalism, but I became much more tolerant of their beliefs and practices, as well as the beliefs and practices of all denominations.

We have two daughters and a son. The two daughters each have two sons. Our son is an unmarried Millennial who served in the Air Force, and later worked overseas, but is now living with us at home. i turned my roof diagramming job over to him this year, but I still have plenty of work to do on another business we started.

I am familiar with the ups and downs of working in the oil business. My wife's brother got a degree in geology, worked for a major oil company for about a year until he got laid off. He struggled for years working small jobs here and there until he got another big job. He bought an expensive house and then got laid off about three years later. His last job has been working with an investment company that buys the leases from exploration companies who don't have resources for development. He is back in the big money now. Your job as a land man should serve you well. That skill can be used in may other types of businesses.
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 15:03:44 by Norton »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #21 on: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 15:11:03 »
Landwork used to be fun when everyone was drilling vertical wells, now with these new horizontal wells, it’s nothing but pure work. Lot’s more land complexities than before.

As to young brides, my mother and mother in law were both married at 15. My mom had me when she was 16. People definitely got married early back then. I was 20 when I got married, my wife was 19.

My contention is if you don’t do it young while you are dumb, you might never do it. Too many excuses to not get married unless you do it while young and stupid!
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 26, 2019 - 15:22:07 by Jaime »

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #22 on: Wed Jun 24, 2020 - 11:54:49 »
Nothing better than good acappela singing.
Not all acappella need be devoid of instruments.  This guy was my vocal teacher back in the 70s.  He could do a lot of "instruments" with his voice and I can do a fair trombone.  He is now doing this in Heaven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXR7qO7FTvg

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #23 on: Wed Jun 24, 2020 - 12:09:59 »
I have heard it argued that trying to sound like instruments is just as wrong as real instruments themselves in worship. The best of both worlds is slightly subdued instruments AND 4 part harmony singing like on the Gaither homecoming shows.
« Last Edit: Wed Jun 24, 2020 - 13:00:07 by Jaime »

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #24 on: Wed Jun 24, 2020 - 12:46:23 »
I have heard it argued that trying to sound like instruments is just as wrong as real instruments themselves in worship.
Based on what?  Chapter and verse please!

Quote
The. Est of both worlds is slightly subdued instruments AND 4 part harmony singing like on the Gaither homecoming shows.
4 part harmony was an invention of German composers in the early Baroque period.  It did not exist before that and CERTAINLY not during the first century.  Even 2 part harmony then is doubtful.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #25 on: Wed Jun 24, 2020 - 12:57:22 »
Book, Chapter and Verse??? The argument was not mine and it is ridiculous, and who cares when 4 part harmony came on board. I wasn’t implying it was the “authorized and age old  method” of worship, just passing on a ridiculous argument I heard about imitating instruments and my own personal opinion about 4 part harmony with instruments. Nothing to get dogmatic about. To me all of this is purely personal preference.
« Last Edit: Wed Jun 24, 2020 - 13:03:38 by Jaime »

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #26 on: Thu Jun 25, 2020 - 05:10:55 »
Book, Chapter and Verse??? The argument was not mine and it is ridiculous, and who cares when 4 part harmony came on board. I wasn’t implying it was the “authorized and age old  method” of worship, just passing on a ridiculous argument I heard about imitating instruments and my own personal opinion about 4 part harmony with instruments. Nothing to get dogmatic about. To me all of this is purely personal preference.

I understood it was NOT your position; but i was wondering if the people who were saying that had any scriptural justification (even if only in their own minds) for their statement.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #27 on: Thu Jun 25, 2020 - 05:25:12 »
In my opinion they had no scriptural justification, but I’m positive they thought they did. Same with any “debatable issue”. We Christians can’t agree on on what is a debatable issue or personal preference item vs a core issue. If we could, unity would be close at hand.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #28 on: Thu Jun 25, 2020 - 11:27:56 »
Musication started due to King James and Mad Churchianity!

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #29 on: Thu Jun 25, 2020 - 13:34:57 »
Musication started due to King James and Mad Churchianity!
I thought it started with Ulrich Zwingli, who was around way before King James. (died 1531)

He was pretty much the one who started CENI

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #30 on: Thu Jun 25, 2020 - 13:39:20 »
In my opinion they had no scriptural justification, but I’m positive they thought they did. Same with any “debatable issue”. We Christians can’t agree on on what is a debatable issue or personal preference item vs a core issue. If we could, unity would be close at hand.

Ephesians 5:19 says instruments must be used, and a capella has no authorization.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #31 on: Fri Jun 26, 2020 - 05:24:46 »
Ephesians 5:19 says instruments must be used, and a capella has no authorization.
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;

I see nothing in that verse about instruments.

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #32 on: Fri Jun 26, 2020 - 09:32:46 »
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;

I see nothing in that verse about instruments.

psalms.  That implies instruments.  Jaime needs to demand they use them in his church.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #33 on: Fri Jun 26, 2020 - 09:47:37 »
No need to demand, we DO have instruments in one service and acappella in the other, or at least pre-Covid fiasco when we had 2 services. In the present combined service we do a little of both.


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Re: Musicators!
« Reply #34 on: Fri Jun 26, 2020 - 09:52:04 »
I think in the future we may have two services based on Mark 16:16 once we get comfortable enough with instruments.

A. He that believes and is saved shall be baptized.

B. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.