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Author Topic: The IM Manifesto  (Read 4988 times)
david johnson
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« Reply #105 on: July 25, 2006, 02:01:42 PM »

"distinctiveness"  and  'about the only thing left'  are different horses.

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Cliftyman
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« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2006, 02:14:14 PM »

I probably get a little too excited in some of the things I say DJ... but really, what else is there?

Very traditional view of baptism... the Disciples and the independent Christian Church have it.

Weekly communion, many groups have this...

Adult believer immersion baptism... a great many groups have this...

I'm being serious.... Accapella singing (along with a belief that instrumental praise is wrong) can only be claimed by two groups that I know of... The CoC and the Primitive Baptists are the only two that come to mind.

Theres many who don't use them... but they do so out of tradition, not out of a concern for going against the authority of God (the belief of the Orthodox Church I believe... I'm sure Clifton will correct me if I'm wrong).

I guess if you get into some of the fringe beliefs like one-cup, or no Church support for orphanages, or KJV only or something like that the CoC might be a little more individualistic, but I wouldn't doubt if there are groups out there that share those doctrines as well.

And since I don't want to hijack my own thread... I'm going to place this in another thread.  Please discuss there.  Thanks!
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« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2006, 02:14:14 PM »

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« Reply #107 on: July 25, 2006, 03:05:41 PM »

(I moved my comments here to the new thread)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 03:13:06 PM by twd » Logged

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« Reply #108 on: May 24, 2008, 06:59:52 PM »

Here it is... discuss.

The Prime Argument for Instrumental Music

1. Music was offered to God outside of the law in the Old Testament in worship settings (1 Samuel 10:5, 2 Samuel 6:5, Exodus 15:20) Specifically these verses show prophets (and prophetesses) prophesying while playing instruments outside of any directive of God, and they show David offering instrumental praise to God while bringing the ark back into Jerusalem (and notice some didn't like spontaneous praise back then... Michal) the New Testament tells us to do everything in word or deed for God (1 Cor 10:31, Col 3:17), to deny this based on silence in Col 3:16, Eph 5:19 or any other passages mentioning singing would be to deny this based on circular arguments... we must have external evidence that playing instrumental music is sin... and since it has not been demonstrated to be sin in the past (the Old Testament), in the present (never has it been specifically detailed as being sin in the New Testament) or the future (why would John describe heavenly acts with sinful activities?)... we have no reason to believe it can't be offered under the commands of Col 3:17, and 1 Cor 10:31.  The only way to prove this wrong would be to illustrate 1 Samuel 10:5 or 2 Samuel 6:5 as being part of the Old Testament law and being abolished or fulfilled by Christ OR by proving instrumental music is now considered sin in the new covenant.  They aren't.  The law of the Old Testament is the moral law (10 Commandments), the civil law (laws regarding governing and justice within the nation of Israel) and ceremonial law (laws dictating worship among the Levitical priesthood and the Israelites relationship within that).  These passages fit none of these descriptions.  Instrumental music in the temple was commanded by God, but it was commanded after the verses listed above. 

Arguments Against Instrumental Music

1. The New Testament doesn't authorize Instrumental Music - Col 3:17, 1 Cor 10:31 seems to indicate we should use our gifts for God, The  word "psalmos" translated "Psalms" mentioned in Col 3:16 and Eph 5:19 were played with instrumental music during David's time. (Many translations list the melody and instruments used with various Psalms).  It could be inferred that those same Psalms would have been accompanied by instrumental music during Jesus's time and possibly during Paul's lifetime (the temple wasn't destroyed until AD 70)   Since we have IM being spontaneously offered to God in the Old Testament we can't conclude that it was "cancelled" (see argument #2).  Authorization is most likely maintained on the "law of silence"...meaning that you must have strict written permission to do anything in a worship service.  Is this "law of silence" a sound method of interpretation?  Is this a manmade law or one the bible illustrates, can situations like that of Nadab and Abihu even apply today since their situation was during a time of ceremonial worship, which Paul in the book of Hebrews states "had regulations for worship", yet says today we have a new and better covenant that is solely based on Christ?

2. The Old Law was nailed to the cross - (Rom 3:28, Rom 7:6, Col 2:14), yet instrumental music was never part of the old law. It was commanded by God for David to have it in the temple.  However there are several instances of it not even being used in the temple.. 1 Samuel 16:23, 2 Samuel 6:5, 1 Samuel 10:5, Genesis 31:27 (not a religious use but an instance of it being used secularly).  Since it was never part of the Mosaic Law its hard to say it has passed away or was nailed to the cross.  It could be argued since the temple is no longer here we do not need it only if it were only used in the temple.  And that would be true, yet its not a sin to still employ it based on that argument.  Paul still worshipped in the temple after his conversion and he said essentially he was “all things to all men” (1 Cor 9)  We have two clear instances of it being used for Godly things outside of the temple in the passages in Samuel mentioned above.  Has God changed his mind regarding IM in the new covenant that Christ has instated?  Since it was without a doubt practiced outside of the temple for Godly things it should be considered righteous unless something forbade it to us in the new covenant.  There is no command forbidding it in the new covenant.  It is currently forbidden using the "law of silence" (we have other examples and it isn't mentioned, so it is forbidden, this is the “law of silence”).  Is the law of silence a biblical principle?  Does God tell us we should interpret the bible this way?  Could applying this principle be considered "adding" to the words of God?

3. Instrumental Music was only used in the temple - IM was used outside of the temple (see Samuel and Genesis passages above), David used it for good uses.  Also if Col 3:17 and 1 Cor 10:31 is any indicator if we have a talent we should use it for the glory of God.  Some would argue not all talents can be used for God.... however why would you want to hide any of your talents and not come up with a way they could be used for God?  (see the parable of the talents - Matthew 25)  Some would argue that we cannot possibly offer everything to God... I would disagree... (Romans 12:1).  Simply saying we "can't offer everything to God" is insufficient to prove instrumental music is unacceptable to God.  It must be proven by the bible that IM is either unauthorized or sinful (see argument #1)

4. Instrumental Music is inherently evil - IM was used by the heathens to worship their pagan Gods... however the invention of IM was amoral.  Jubal was the first to use IM noted in the bible (Genesis 4:21, note the KJV says "organ" which may be a little misleading)... both good and bad people used it in the Old Testament.  Obviously it can be used for good.  Jesus told us that external things don't defile us... things that come out of our heart defile us.  Instruments are not inherently evil. (Matthew 15:16-20).  An atheist spouting his lies over a PA system does not make a microphone evil.  Instrumental Music  has been employed in temple worship, used spontaneously by Old Testament prophets while prophesying, David spontaneously offered instrumental praise when bringing the ark to Jerusalem and David drove away Saul's evil spirit by using it... it is impossible for it to be inherently evil. 

5. Instrumental Music is divisive - IM can be divisive and should never be used where it can be harmful (1 Cor 8)... but if it can be helpful, can provide healing, can provide praise... it should be used by those people that have the talents to implement it.  It may be useful to edify the Church, (Col 3:17, 1 Cor 10:31) but it shouldn't be divisive.  Some would argue that it is divisive any time it is incorporated among those who believe its wrong.  Should anyone make a test of fellowship out of an unsupported principle of judgement?  Does the bible ever say we can disfellowship or cease fellowship over instrumental music (1 Cor 5, Matthew 18).  The bible only says we can do these things over matters of sin or false teaching.  Instrumental Music is not a matter of false teaching ;"false" in the bible refers to those who would knowingly teach something wrong, or something that tries to substitute itself for the gospel.  Can we prove playing instruments to God is sinful?  Some may show how it is unaddressed in the New Testament, yet that is a far cry from using the Bible to show its sinful.

6. The definition of the word "psallo" found in James 5:13, Eph 5:19, 1 Cor 14:15 and Romans 15:9  means to "sing" -
Forms of the word "psallo" appear in the Septuagint referring to both vocal and instrumental music.  In the New Testament (specifically Revelation 5:8-9) it could be interpreted that words for singing are applied to the music of the harp. (or were the heavenly beings just holding their harps for props?)  Without a doubt "psallo" was applied to both instrumental music and vocal music, if you accept the Septuagint as legitimate and applicable in understanding the Greek language of the New Testament.   However the question should be, even if "psallo" means sing, is that a prohibition on us playing IM to God?  Can we limit our own talents being offered to God based on silence? (see argument #1 regarding the law of silence and biblical authority)

7. Instruments being played in Rev 14 and Rev 5 were symbolic - We are told the saints will have harps in heaven...once again this wouldn't be a strict prohibition against IM even if they were simply symbolic. Would a sinful symbolic act be shown in heaven?  Why is something portrayed literally or symbolic as being in heaven if it is sinful? 

8. "Strange Fire" offered by Nadab and Abihu - Nadab and Abihu were given a command from God regarding a sacrifice.  There are instances of God commanding IM in the Old Testament and David carried out those commands from God.  Those commandments were regarding the sacrficial/Levitical worship and anyone who says the that form of worship is abolished, fulfilled would be correct.  The question is "Does God command us how to conduct worship services in the New Testament?"  The only reason we would not conclude that IM was acceptable would be due to the law of silence.  It was acceptable to David and the Prophets before God instated it by command in the temple, it is acceptable in heaven... symbolically or figuratively... The only reason that it would not be acceptable would be due to the law of silence, and I maintain that the law of silence is a concept that is extra-biblical.  There is absolutely no evidence for a rule in the New Testament that says "we can only do things exactly as written in the Bible and no way else", in those with a firm understanding of the Greek word "latreia" reading Romans 12:1-2 will realize that physical requirements of worship are fulfilled in becoming living sacrifices... when we read Col 3:17 and 1 Cor 10:31 we realize that if we withhold anything from God we haven't become a living sacrifice.  I believe this includes our musical abilities.  How could we possibly justify using them for our own pleasure, for making money, etc., but not using them for God?

9.  The hypocritical conscience argument - this in no way proves the correctness of IM, however I bring it up because it can begin to convict those who try to keep the law.  Here is an example of this... if you believe silence doesn't allow you to use IM, because you have an example of singing... if that were the case though you wouldn't be able to greet with a handshake only a kiss, because the only form of greeting mentioned in the New Testament is the holy kiss, over 4 times!  This definitely isn't a refute of any argument.  Its simply something I hope can make people be more honest with themselves.  So in short... how can you be consistent with "silence arguments", you would have to literally do everything in the bible to be true to your own measure of judgement.  You may say shaking hands has nothing to do with worship and you would be correct, then what of the Wednesday night service itself.  We have examples of Christians only meeting on the first day of the week.  If we applied the law of silence to this, the Wednesday night service would be unscriptural.... thankfully the bible doesn't have to be interpreted that way.

10. The Early Church didn't use it - are we sure?  Have harps, lyres, etc. ever been found in the homes where the Church met up to the third century?  We know that followers of God before Christ used it.  Is the supposition that people from an earlier time period didn't use it, a worthy exhortation for us not to use it anyway?  3rd Century Christians didn't use PA Systems to spread the gospel to stadiums full of 60,000 people, does that mean we shouldn't?  Its very hard to fully understand the musical landscape of the 1st century.  It was a time that Greeks were formulating new musical theory and instruments, they probably wouldn't adopt Hebrew systems and instruments... also there probably just weren't that many musicians, especially compared with today.  The early Church probably didn't use it.... but once again thats no prohibition from God that we can't use it.  We use a great many things the early Church hadn’t even invented yet.  They probably didn’t have collection baskets but that sure doesn’t keep our leaders from passing them!

11. We shouldn't put on a show in our worship assembly - We should never be false.  God is much more displeased with how our hearts and lives are being lived before we even come into the assembly setting though (read Amos, where God hates the Israelittes music because they don't serve him with their deeds).  I've been in the presence of heartfelt instrumental praise though.  This is a matter of the heart.  Also we need to remember King David was very elaborate in his instrumental praise... to the point that Michal despised him... yet we know by the words of Samuel that God was pleased with his outpouring.

... I don't bring this up yet again to cause contention, we are discussing this in another thread and I thought it was relevant.  IM is a pivotal issue for the Church or Christ.  In many ways the beliefs held on IM define the more legalistic side of the Church of Christ... and to change this belief in some people will open them up to new ways of thinking regarding unity and grace.  Its sad but true... but this has become ingrained into the identity of the tradition.  It shouldn't be a big issue but in some ways its the only thing that defines the tradition differently than the rest of Christiandom, so that is why its so vehemently battled over.

Great thoughts sir Clifty.
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He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.  Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.
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