Author Topic: The Living Oracles  (Read 1996 times)

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notreligus

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The Living Oracles
« on: Tue Nov 18, 2014 - 08:49:20 »
I have previously found a pdf of Alexander Campbell's New Testament, The Living Oracles, but this is the first time I've found it included as part of an on-line study Bible.   Here's the link:

http://studybible.info/version/Living_Oracles

For example, this is Campbell's version of Acts 2:38:

And Peter said to them, Reform, and be each of you immersed in the name of Jesus Christ, in order to the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


   

notreligus

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #1 on: Tue Nov 18, 2014 - 13:18:35 »
I have known for years that Campbell inserted "immersion" for baptism in his New Testament translation.   I pretty much left it at that.   Today his use of the world "Reform" really got my attention.   I thought I'd investigate this further.

Please note the following:

Acts 2:38 from Alexander Campbell’s translation:
•   And Peter said to them, Reform, and be each of you immersed in the name of Jesus Christ, in order to the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

For comparison:

Acts 2:38  Peter4074 said to them, "Repent3340, and each1538 of you be baptized907 in the name3686 of Jesus2424 Christ5547 for the forgiveness859 of your sins266; and you will receive2983 the gift1431 of the Holy40 Spirit4151.  NASB

Acts 2:38  ThenG1161 PeterG4074 saidG5346 untoG4314 them,G846 Repent,G3340 andG2532 be baptizedG907 every oneG1538 of youG5216 inG1909 theG3588 nameG3686 of JesusG2424 ChristG5547 forG1519 the remissionG859 of sins,G266 andG2532 ye shall receiveG2983 theG3588 giftG1431 of theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost.G4151    KJV

Focus on the word Repent.  It is Strong’s Word Number G3340.

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō

Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins

Also used in these passages  (NASB):

Matt 3:2  "Repent3340, for the kingdom932 of heaven3772 is at hand1448."

Matt 4:17  From that time5119 Jesus2424 began757 to preach2784 and say3004, "Repent3340, for the kingdom932 of heaven3772 is at hand1448."

Mark 1:15  and saying3004, "The time2540 is fulfilled4137, and the kingdom932 of God2316 is at hand1448; repent3340 and believe4100 in the gospel2098."

Mark 6:12  They went1831 out and preached2784 that men should repent3340.
Mark  6:13  And they were casting1544b out many4183 demons1140 and were anointing218b with oil1637 many4183 sick732 people732 and healing2323 them.

Luke 13:2  And Jesus said3004 to them, "Do you suppose1380 that these3778 Galileans1057 were greater sinners268 than3844 all3956 other Galileans1057 because3754 they suffered3958 this3778 fate?
Luke 13:3  "I tell3004 you, no3780, but unless1437, 3361 you repent3340, you will all3956 likewise3668 perish622.
Luke 13:4  "Or2228 do you suppose1380 that those1565 eighteen1178a on whom3739 the tower4444 in Siloam4611 fell4098 and killed615 them were worse culprits3781 than3844 all3956 the men444 who live2730 in Jerusalem2419?
Luke 13:5  "I tell3004 you, no3780, but unless1437, 3361 you repent3340, you will all3956 likewise5615 perish622."

Luke 16:29  "But Abraham11 *said3004, 'They have2192 Moses3475 and the Prophets4396; let them hear191 them.'
Luke 16:30  "But he said3004, 'No3780, father3962 Abraham11, but if1437 someone5100 goes4198 to them from the dead3498, they will repent3340!'
Luke 16:31  "But he said3004 to him, 'If1487 they do not listen191 to Moses3475 and the Prophets4396, they will not be persuaded3982 even3761 if1437 someone5100 rises450 from the dead3498.'"

Acts 3:18  "But the things which3739 God2316 announced4293 beforehand4293 by the mouth4750 of all3956 the prophets4396, that His Christ5547 would suffer3958, He has thus3779 fulfilled4137.
Acts 3:19  "Therefore3767 repent3340 and return1994, so1519 that your sins266 may be wiped1813 away1813, in order3704 that times2540 of refreshing403 may come2064 from the presence4383 of the Lord2962;
Acts 3:20  and that He may send649 Jesus2424, the Christ5547 appointed4400 for you,
Acts 3:21  whom3739 heaven3772 must1163 receive1209 until891 the period5550 of restoration605 of all3956 things3956 about which3739 God2316 spoke2980 by the mouth4750 of His holy40 prophets4396 from ancient165 time165.
Acts 3:22  "Moses3475 said3004, 'THE LORD2962 GOD2316 WILL RAISE450 UP FOR YOU A PROPHET4396 LIKE5613 ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN80; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE191 HEED191 to everything3956 He says2980 to you.

Rev 2:4  'But I have2192 this against2596 you, that you have left863 your first4413 love26.
Rev 2:5  'Therefore3767 remember3421 from where4159 you have fallen4098, and repent3340 and do4160 the deeds2041 you did at first4413; or1161 else1490b I am coming2064 to you and will remove2795 your lampstand3087 out of its place5117--unless1437, 3361 you repent3340.
Rev 2:6  'Yet235 this3778 you do have2192, that you hate3404 the deeds2041 of the Nicolaitans3531, which3739 I also2532 hate3404.
Rev 2:7  'He who has2192 an ear3775, let him hear191 what5101 the Spirit4151 says3004 to the churches1577. To him who overcomes3528, I will grant1325 to eat2068 of the tree3586 of life2222 which3739 is in the Paradise3857 of God2316.'

Rev 3:18  I advise4823 you to buy59 from Me gold5553 refined4448 by fire4442 so2443 that you may become4147 rich4147, and white3022 garments2440 so2443 that you may clothe4016 yourself, and that the shame152 of your nakedness1132 will not be revealed5319; and eye2854 salve2854 to anoint1472 your eyes3788 so2443 that you may see991.
Rev 3:19  'Those3745 whom3745 I love5368, I reprove1651 and discipline3811; therefore3767 be zealous2205a and repent3340.
Rev 3:20  'Behold2400, I stand2476 at the door2374 and knock2925; if1437 anyone5100 hears191 My voice5456 and opens455 the door2374, I will come1525 in to him and will dine1172 with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21  'He who overcomes3528, I will grant1325 to him to sit2523 down2523 with Me on My throne2362, as I also2532 overcame3528 and sat2523 down2523 with My Father3962 on His throne2362.
Rev 3:22  'He who has2192 an ear3775, let him hear191 what5101 the Spirit4151 says3004 to the churches1577.'"

I apologize for how this looks but I left all of the Strong's Word Numbers here and it's not too pretty.  Anyone who is interested can check me out on this and use the on-line The Living Oracles,  but not only did Campbell change baptism to immersion, he changed every repent to reform.   What was his motivation?   Do the words have the same meaning, especially when reading these passages in context? 

Reform indicates some degree of change.    Repent indicates a complete turn-around, a new, not overhauled, thought process.  In the context of Acts 2:38 Peter was admonishing the Jews to turn from Moses and the Law and turn to Christ the one whom they, the Jews, had wanted crucified, and His new program, not a re-fabricated program.


Offline erez

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #2 on: Tue Nov 18, 2014 - 14:01:11 »
While I agree that the word reform is different than repent, and should not be used equally as Campbell has done.  I believe you are dead wrong in regards to the context of Acts 2:38.  Peter never once indicated that Jews should relate to the commands of Torah as opposed to the message of Messiah.  Every apostle indicated the revealation of Messiah 'within and throughout' the Torah.  The admonition from Peter in Acts was that the unbelieving Jews did not believe the Message of Messiah, and to repent from doing so.  To turn from not having faith in his words and actions.  He presented the fact that Messiah was within and throughout the Torah and these Jews saw it and realized thier error.  So they ask, what do we do?  And Peter says in essence 'stop your disbelief!!'  They would not have asked this question had the Spirit of God not revealed to them the Messiah within and throughout the Torah and the prophets.  It wasn't an old vs new argument.  Which is probably why the likes of Campbell have understood it as a 'reform' instead of a repent.  But as I stated originally I would not have replaced the word repent with reform.  Sounds like he's trying to be more politically correct to me than anything else.  But I'm not familiar with Campbell and his doctrinal theology.

notreligus

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #3 on: Tue Nov 18, 2014 - 16:06:47 »
While I agree that the word reform is different than repent, and should not be used equally as Campbell has done.  I believe you are dead wrong in regards to the context of Acts 2:38.  Peter never once indicated that Jews should relate to the commands of Torah as opposed to the message of Messiah.  Every apostle indicated the revealation of Messiah 'within and throughout' the Torah.  The admonition from Peter in Acts was that the unbelieving Jews did not believe the Message of Messiah, and to repent from doing so.  To turn from not having faith in his words and actions.  He presented the fact that Messiah was within and throughout the Torah and these Jews saw it and realized thier error.  So they ask, what do we do?  And Peter says in essence 'stop your disbelief!!'  They would not have asked this question had the Spirit of God not revealed to them the Messiah within and throughout the Torah and the prophets.  It wasn't an old vs new argument.  Which is probably why the likes of Campbell have understood it as a 'reform' instead of a repent.  But as I stated originally I would not have replaced the word repent with reform.  Sounds like he's trying to be more politically correct to me than anything else.  But I'm not familiar with Campbell and his doctrinal theology.

I think you have contradicted yourself or you just didn't understand what I said. 

John the Baptist focused on baptizing Jews with a baptism of repentance.   He was preparing the way for the Messiah.   John said he baptized with water but Messiah would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire.   Does it seem to you that John was telling the Jews to remain the same as they were and be under the tutor, the Law, which brought only condemnation?   If Jews turned to Jesus then they had to turn away from Moses and the Law.   Are you familiar with the 613?   For national Israel, being under the Law included much more than the Sinai Covenant.   When someone sinned under the Law a payment was demanded.   Under Christ's new program of Grace, the payment was provided and it was a permanent payment.   

As one who uses Biblical Theology as a system of Bible interpretation I wholeheartedly agree that Christ is present throughout the Torah.   There was and remains those Jews who believe that Isaiah 53 is about their nation, and then there is the Remnant that did repent and did believe.   The NT makes reference to them in the Book of Romans.   Paul said that Jews and Gentiles were no longer divided and were one new man in Christ.   The Gentiles did not convert to Judaism, so the Jews had to give up Judaism, or at least they were supposed to as Judaism is a works-based faith.   Christianity is a grace-based faith established by the finished work of Christ, not the work of a people or persons. 

Offline erez

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 18, 2014 - 17:17:09 »
Quote
so the Jews had to give up Judaism, or at least they were supposed to as Judaism is a works-based faith
I don't see you understanding the Torah or the prophets at all in regards to the coming Messiah 'of Israel'.  You have the savior of the Jews coming to do away with Judaism.  And then replacing them with non-Jews 'as Israel'.  Yes, as Israel, because all the promises of the coming Messiah were given to the Jews, for Israel.  The nations are not blessed by replacing Israel they are blessed because of Israel and what her Messiah did/does for us.   

So when Jesus says 'repent' to the Jews he's really meaning .....reform, as non-Jews?  And the coming of the savior of Israel saves them by teaching them that the former commands are to be given up?  I don't believe in replacement theology or dispensationalism. 

God has not forsaken his people, nor his nation.  Nor will he ever do so.  He loves Israel, the physical seed of Abraham with a love that endures forever.  As long as there are stars in the sky there will be physical children of Abraham Issac and Jacob.  Messiah did not come to reform Israel into the nations of the world.  He came to claim the sins of all.  He did this as the King of the Jews, who sits on the throne of David forever, and who rules over the house of Jacob, forever.  Judaism is not replaced.  How else will we say 'blessed are you who comes in the name of the Lord' if we are no longer Jews? 

'you will not see me again 'UNTIL' you say.......'  He didn't say you will never see me again because I am commanding you to give up Judaism.  Even Paul said we remain in the condition we were called in.  Meaning Jews remain Jews, and gentiles remain gentiles.  And both are redeemed through faith. 

Have you not heard that 'the righteous will live by faith'?  This was not a NT statement.  You can not build a house by removing it's foundation. 
Quote from: Luke 1
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
How and why does he reign over a house forever that has supposedly been given up? 

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #5 on: Thu Nov 20, 2014 - 06:09:57 »
Eretz - (nice name btw) Notreligious has an opinion of what "judaism" is and will not be convinced there is anything more than what he thinks. I have tried to explain "New Covenant Judaism" to him and it is like trying to describe the difference between teal and aqua to someone born blind. He cannot get past the idea that Judaism of any stripe is devoid of God and His help - i.e. it is entirely based on self-works and legalism.

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #6 on: Fri Nov 21, 2014 - 17:41:05 »
DaveW,  the NT tells me that God no longer sees man as a Jew or Gentile in the "flesh." He now sees man as a "new creation in Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:12.

A study in the New Testament finds that a fleshly Jew is seen as a Gentile if not a "new creation in Christ Jesus." There isn't a man on the face of this earth today who could trace his linage back to Abraham. Why anyone wants to hang on to a fleshly pedigree is beyond me.

I did that with Holstein cattle for years, only to find out there was a red Brahma bull (owned by my neighbor) that jumped the fence and molested a couple of my red heifers some twenty years ago. This was before DNA came along. Now, I cannot register some of the calves as "pure bread." But, they still make fine T-bone steaks when the get to the promised land.

Notreligus, I believe we can see in "The Living Oracles" that Campbell never really cut his Calvinistic roots. Jesus said, "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
When a man dedicates his life to something, and realizes later that he had made a mistake, it is very difficult to shut the door behind him and walk away. This could be the reason Campbell's
"Living Oracles" have been buried in the graveyard of good intentions.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #7 on: Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 05:27:38 »
DaveW,  the NT tells me that God no longer sees man as a Jew or Gentile in the "flesh." He now sees man as a "new creation in Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:12.
 
Yes, we are all New Creation believers.  But that does NOT eliminate the distinctions of male and female; neither does it eliminate Jew and Gentile.  To read the texts otherwise is improper intrepretation.

Such distinctions are designed by God for mutual blessing; and NOT to be considered points of negativity. To deny them is to ignore God's blessings.

Your phrase "in the flesh" is also a bit disturbing.  Only gnostics elevate spiritual existance over the physical.  To the biblical faith, both are important.
« Last Edit: Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 05:30:05 by DaveW »

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #8 on: Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 09:55:17 »
DaveW,  the NT tells me that God no longer sees man as a Jew or Gentile in the "flesh." He now sees man as a "new creation in Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:12.
 
Yes, we are all New Creation believers.  But that does NOT eliminate the distinctions of male and female; neither does it eliminate Jew and Gentile.  To read the texts otherwise is improper intrepretation.

Such distinctions are designed by God for mutual blessing; and NOT to be considered points of negativity. To deny them is to ignore God's blessings.

Your phrase "in the flesh" is also a bit disturbing.  Only gnostics elevate spiritual existance over the physical.  To the biblical faith, both are important.
That's the exact word that came to my mind when I read his post too. 

God has not repudiated his people Israel, nor has he called them common or gentiles.  To deny God's plan and purpose for Israel is to ignore the very heart of God.  God, who came in the form of flesh to fellowship and serve those 'in the flesh' has not abolished the fleshly form.  Any more than he has abolished physical Israel by the coming and giving of the Spirit of God. 

God did not send the Messiah to Israel to redeem and save her and the world only to have her removed.  The world to come is not some spiritual etheral heaven apart from this world.  It's the presence of God come down to live and dwell within and among his creation.  The gates of heaven are all named with 'Jewish' names.  The holy city that comes down from heaven is still called 'Jerusalem'.  The king who rules reigns from the throne of a Jewish King and resides over the house of Jacob forever.  How can people pick one part of a prophecy while discarding the rest of it they can't agree with is beyond me. 

Quote from: Luke 1
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
If the throne is metaphoric, and the house is, then maybe so is the Son???  And the womb.  Gnostics live in the sod while rejecting any form of p'shat.  Sad really.  It skews ones view of the prophesy.  A balance is needed, and when employed results in a 3-D view of the Word.  What is, what was, and what is to come....  All are Echad.  United as One.  To see through only one revelation is to see as through a mirky glass.  All physical/p'shat and you get a religion of works, all sod and you get a religion of esotericism/gnostic.  As you hinted to DaveW, there are still men and women, Jew and Gentile.  And may we both forever exist, as one in Messiah. 

notreligus

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #9 on: Mon Dec 01, 2014 - 18:12:34 »
DaveW,  the NT tells me that God no longer sees man as a Jew or Gentile in the "flesh." He now sees man as a "new creation in Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:12.
 
Yes, we are all New Creation believers.  But that does NOT eliminate the distinctions of male and female; neither does it eliminate Jew and Gentile.  To read the texts otherwise is improper intrepretation.

Such distinctions are designed by God for mutual blessing; and NOT to be considered points of negativity. To deny them is to ignore God's blessings.

Your phrase "in the flesh" is also a bit disturbing.  Only gnostics elevate spiritual existance over the physical.  To the biblical faith, both are important.
That's the exact word that came to my mind when I read his post too. 

God has not repudiated his people Israel, nor has he called them common or gentiles.  To deny God's plan and purpose for Israel is to ignore the very heart of God.  God, who came in the form of flesh to fellowship and serve those 'in the flesh' has not abolished the fleshly form.  Any more than he has abolished physical Israel by the coming and giving of the Spirit of God. 

God did not send the Messiah to Israel to redeem and save her and the world only to have her removed.  The world to come is not some spiritual etheral heaven apart from this world.  It's the presence of God come down to live and dwell within and among his creation.  The gates of heaven are all named with 'Jewish' names.  The holy city that comes down from heaven is still called 'Jerusalem'.  The king who rules reigns from the throne of a Jewish King and resides over the house of Jacob forever.  How can people pick one part of a prophecy while discarding the rest of it they can't agree with is beyond me. 

Quote from: Luke 1
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
If the throne is metaphoric, and the house is, then maybe so is the Son???  And the womb.  Gnostics live in the sod while rejecting any form of p'shat.  Sad really.  It skews ones view of the prophesy.  A balance is needed, and when employed results in a 3-D view of the Word.  What is, what was, and what is to come....  All are Echad.  United as One.  To see through only one revelation is to see as through a mirky glass.  All physical/p'shat and you get a religion of works, all sod and you get a religion of esotericism/gnostic.  As you hinted to DaveW, there are still men and women, Jew and Gentile.  And may we both forever exist, as one in Messiah.

Please look at my post in the Theology section concerning Galatians Chapter Three.

This thread has taken a path that was not intended.

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Re: The Living Oracles
« Reply #10 on: Tue Dec 02, 2014 - 10:24:02 »
Quote
This thread has taken a path that was not intended.
 
I am sure that it has.

But I will not let pass an unbiblical statement without challenging it.

 

     
anything