A challenge to my beliefs

[todd_vetter33]

With much of the Christian world all making good cases for a Friday crucifixion, Thursday crucifixion, and even a Wednesday crucifixion; all built on the bible with the verses they choose as truth to define their perceptions while ignoring other portions of bible verses and historical testimony, I decided to take it upon myself to test all that I could find on this topic and put it all to the test using the Prophecies and time as God defined it as a baseline for truth. It is said that scripture is of no personal interpretation (speculation). What I have found is pretty solid and amazing yet it poses new questions that have been answered by much of my findings. I am however curious what your answers will be to my questions, but first I would like you to review the answers I objectively present in the link referenced study so that you will be able to present why your understanding is more or less correct than what I have discovered and objectively displayed.

Knowing that Christ stated that he fulfilled all things written into the laws of Moses I looked for and found a 4 day timed specific prophecy in exodus 12 regarding the Lamb which Christianity claims Christ to be per the testimony of John the Baptist.

Why does the bible in it's current state of Preservation not illustrate the fulfillment of the 4 day prophecy in Exodus 12. In exodus 12 the Lamb (Christ) was to be chosen by the people on the tenth day of the first month. On the 14th day Christ (the Lamb) was to be killed. The only event that fits this symbolism of the Lamb being chosen by the people is the triumphal entry, yet the bible does not illustrate this being fulfilled since the anointing At Bethany according to John places the triumphal entry on the 9th Day of the first month. Both Matt and Mark place the anointing Event 2 days before Passover (12 Nissan) and if the triumphal entry happened the next day (13 Nissan), you still do not have the Lamb being chosen by the people on the 10th day per the Law of Moses which Christ claimed to have fulfilled.

There is a non canonized Gospel that was found in 1877 in a monastery in Tibet which illustrates exodus 12 in fulfillment. It also illustrates many other amazing testimonies. If there is a Gospel that is more complete (96 continuous Chapters) and illustrates prophecy fulfillment where the bible does not.  This exposes Error in the bible gospels. Why does the bible have Errors when people today claim it is infallible? By making false statements are they in Spirit and in Truth? Can they not hear God's voice which does tell the full truth?
 
If the official story regarding the history of the 4 gospels was truth, why is this study able to give solid credible evidence that the 4 bible gospels came from a single written gospel source? Page 31

The study gives a great deal of Credibility to the concept of God's word being perfect and that Christ was God's Son.  Problem presented is that Christianity's definition of God's word is incorrect and they Make God look like a Liar by misrepresenting God's word..

Here is a link that I have built which causes me to ask questions and provide the information which provokes the questions. Can you find any page of testimony presented that is not telling the truth based on what is presented?

By page 37, do you believe the information presented illustrates accurately enough why the Christian world is divided and in a state of denominational confusion?

Can you answer any of these questions with certain truth after reviewing the information which provokes the questions?

Are your answers speculation based on traditions and human imagination or as God’s child did he speak the truth in your ear to answer these question since God's children hear God's voice?

http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

[todd_vetter33]

It appears someone thought they were doing God a service by removing this thread from the forum.  We know what prophecy says about them!  The lesson about pride and the ignorance it causes was for the eyes of many and God gave a treasure to invest.  The unfaithful servant buried the treasure to invest.  What happenes to that servant?

[todd_vetter33]

This thread will illustrate why every word of this testimony is truth from God yet the second half is found in half truth with a twist in your bibles today.  do you have the courage to walk through the valley of the Shadow you were born with?

Jeremiah 16: 19-20  This Bible verse changes meaning between bible versions and bares witness to the lies we received if God’s word is unchanging
19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, The Gentiles shall come to You From the ends of the earth and say, “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, Worthlessness and unprofitable things.” 20 Will a man make gods for himself, Which are not gods?        

1. AGAIN Jesus sat near the sea, in a circle of twelve palm trees, where he oft resorted, and the Twelve and their fellows came unto him, and they sat under the shade of the trees, and the holy One’ taught them sitting in their midst. 2. And Jesus said unto them, Ye have heard what men in the world say concerning me, but whom do ye say that I am? Peter rose up with Andrew his brother and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, who descendeth from heaven and dwelleth in the hearts of them who believe and obey unto righteousness. And the rest rose up and said, each after his own manner, These words are true, so we believe. 3. And Jesus answered them saying, Blessed are ye my twelve who believe, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but the spirit of God which dwelleth in you. I indeed am the way, the Truth and the Life; and the Truth understandeth all things. 4. All truth is in God, and I bear witness unto the truth. I am the true Rock, and on this Rock do I build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it, and out of this Rock shall flow rivers of living water to give life to the peoples of the earth. 5. Ye are my chosen twelve. In me, the Head and Corner stone, are the twelve foundations of my house builded on the rock, and on you in me shall my Church be built, and in truth and righteousness shall my Church be established. 6. And ye shall sit on twelve thrones and send forth light and truth to all the twelve tribes of Israel after the Spirit, and I will be with you, even unto the end of the world. 7. But there shall arise after you, men of perverse minds who shall through ignorance or through craft, suppress many things which I have spoken unto you, and lay to me things which I never taught, sowing tares among the good wheat which I have given you to sow in the world. 8. Then shall the truth of God endure the contradiction of sinners, for thus it hath been, and thus it will be. But the time cometh when the things which they have hidden shall be revealed and made known, and the truth shall make free those which were bound. 9. One is your Master, all ye are brethren, and one is not greater than another in the place which I have given unto you, for ye have one Master, even Christ, who is over you and with you and in you, and there is no inequality among my twelve, or their fellows. 10. All are equally near unto me. Strive ye not therefore for the first place, for ye are all first, because ye are the foundation stones and pillars of the Church, built on the truth which is in me and in you, and the truth and the law shall ye establish for all, as shall be given unto you. 11. Verily when ye and your fellows agree together touching anything in my Name, I am in the midst of you and with you. 12. Woe is the time when the spirit of the world entereth into the Church, and my doctrines and precepts are made void through the corruption of men and of women. Woe is the world when the Light is hidden. Woe is the world when these things shall be.

[robert two]

 I am looking for the answer to Jesus was 3 days and three night dead.
If it only said three days it would be okay. Then it brings JONAH into this as well. So we have problems.

[ex cathedra]

Good friday Jesus died and rose again sunday



THIS IS COVERED IN THE 6TH COMMANDMENT OF BIBLE INTERPETATIONS

TORWARD THE END


to a Hebrew, each day starts with the evening before (Genesis 1:5).

learn more its posted in the lutheran faith group section

[robert two]

 There has to be an honest answer to the 3 days & 3 nights issue here.

[Cathlodox]

Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the Jewish week, the Resurrection took place the following 1st day of the week, in the morning. The Calendar we use today was not the calendar Jews used at the time of Jesus. The crucifixion took place on the Jewish 6th day of the week which would have been considered Wed according to the Julian calendar which mutated into the Gregorian we now use.

[djconklin]

The Calendar we use today was not the calendar Jews used at the time of Jesus.

The weekly cycle has never been changed.  The Jews then worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do today.

The only thing that changed in the changeover from the Julian to the Gregorian was the number of the day: Something like Tuesday the 12 was followed by Wednesday the 25th.

[Cathlodox]

The weekly cycle has never been changed.  The Jews then worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do today.

The Sabbath was calculated differently back then. The Jews always worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do. It's just a different calculation.

The only thing that changed in the changeover from the Julian to the Gregorian was the number of the day: Something like Tuesday the 12 was followed by Wednesday the 25th.

The issue is not from the Julian to the Gregorian. The calculation changed from the ancient Hebrew calendar to the actual Julian.

[djconklin]

The weekly cycle has never been changed.  The Jews then worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do today.

The Sabbath was calculated differently back then. The Jews always worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do. It's just a different calculation.

And the proof would be?

The only thing that changed in the changeover from the Julian to the Gregorian was the number of the day: Something like Tuesday the 12 was followed by Wednesday the 25th.

The issue is not from the Julian to the Gregorian. The calculation changed from the ancient Hebrew calendar to the actual Julian.

You broght up the change from the Julian to the Gregorian, now you change it to a Jewish to Julian and yuou've offered no proof for this claim.

[Cathlodox]

The weekly cycle has never been changed.  The Jews then worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do today.

The Sabbath was calculated differently back then. The Jews always worshipped on the Sabbath and they still do. It's just a different calculation.

[/quote]

And the proof would be?

Jewish Encyclopedia, do you accept that?

The origin of the Sabbath, as well as the true meaning of the name, is uncertain. The earliest Biblical passages which mention it (Ex. xx. 10, xxxiv. 21; Deut. v. 14; Amos viii. 5) presuppose its previous existence, and analysis of all the references to it in the canon makes it plain that its observance was neither general nor altogether spontaneous in either pre-exilic or post-exilic Israel. It was probably originally connected in some manner with the cult of the moon, as indeed is suggested by the frequent mention of Sabbath and New-Moon festivals in the same sentence (Isa. i. 13; Amos viii. 5; H Kings iv. 23). The old Semites worshiped the moon and the stars (Hommel, "Der Gestirndienst der Alten Araber"). Nomads and shepherds, they regarded the night as benevolent, the day with its withering heat as malevolent. In this way the moon ("Sinai" = "moon ["sin"] mountain") became central in their pantheon. The moon, however, has four phases in approximately 28 days, and it seemingly comes to a standstill every seven days. Days on which the deity rested were considered taboo, or ill-omened. New work could not be begun, nor unfinished work continued, on such days. The original meaning of "Shabbat" conveys this idea (the derivation from "sheba'" is entirely untenable). If, as was done by Prof. Sayce (in his Hibbert Lectures) and by Jastrow (in "American Journal of Theology," April, 1898), it can be identified in the form "shabbaton" with the "Shabattum" of the Assyrian list of foreign words, which is defined as "um nuḥ libbi" = "day of propitiation" (Jensen, in "Sabbath-School Times," 1892), it is a synonym for "'Aẓeret" and means a day on which one's actions are restricted, because the deity has to be propitiated. If, with Toy (in "Jour. Bib. Lit." xviii. 194), it is assumed that the signification is "rest," or "season of rest" (from the verb "to rest," "to cease [from labor]"; though "divider" and "division of time" are likewise said to have been the original significations; comp. also Barth, "Nominalbildungen," and Lagarde, "Nominalbildung"), the day is so designated because, being taboo, it demands abstinence from work and other occupations. The Sabbath depending, in Israel's nomadic period, upon the observation of the phases of the moon, it could not, according to this view, be a fixed day.

Now, for your Bible lesson.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. Exodus 12,1
 
 
"And Moses wrote their goings out according to their journeys by the commandment of the LORD: and these are their journeys according to their goings out. And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians. Numbers 33, 1-3
 
Now, counting from the "New Moon", Passover the 14th is ALWAYS on the 6th "day" of the week. In the above Scripture the Children of Israel left Eqypt "on the morrow" or the next day after Passover.
 
Here is the simple math,
 
New Moon Day (1), Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, Day 5, Day 6, Day 7, Day 8, Day 9, Day 10, Day 11, Day 12, Day 13, Day 14 (Passover), Day 15 (Sabbath Day)
 
Day 1 (New Moon) and Day 14 (Passover) have been identified.  We know from Deut 16,1 that God brought the Children out of Egypt "by night" the day after the Passover. We know that the New Moon day is the first day of the first month of the first year because God commanded the Hebrews to keep the Passover Lamb up to the 14th day of the first month then to kill it.
 

If you go back and look at the "simple math" you will see that the 15th day, by default, is the Sabbath. Counting back 7 days identifies the 8th day as also a Sabbath. Day 1 can't be the Sabbath because it's the first day, of the first month of the first year and there is never a time where the New Moon day is the Sabbath, it's impossible. Counting forward from the 15th day we can identify the 22nd and 29th day as Sabbath days as well. This is the first Biblical month. The second month is laid out identical.
 
 
On the 15th Day of the Second month of the Exodus from Egypt the Children complained to Moses. Notice what happens. God tells Moses on the 15th Day that He will rain bread from heaven and test the Children to see if they will walk in His law or not.
 
On Day 15 God instructs Moses what to instruct the Children. If you read Exodus 16 you will see on the evening of the "15th day of the month" God caused quail to blow into the camp of the Children of Israel and the next morning manna started to fall. Day 15 = The Sabbath,  plus 16th day (1st day of manna), 17th day (2nd day of Manna), 18th day (3rd day of Manna), 19th day (4th day of Manna), 20th day (5th day of manna), 21st day (6th day of Manna) whereas the Children are to gather twice as much manna because on the 22 day there will be no manna because that day is the Sabbath day. The math works out the same way as it did from the Exodus of Egypt with the Sabbath being on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th day from the New Moon. That's two months wereas the Sabbaths were on the identical days of the same Lunar Calendar.
 
Is there ever three months in a row in the Gregorian Calendar where the Sabbath falls on the exact same days? Of course not, because the Gregorian is a solar Calendar and does not count or start from the New Moon.

It's exactly as the Jewish Encyclopedia stated it to be: The Sabbath depending, in Israel's nomadic period, upon the observation of the phases of the moon, it could not, according to this view, be a fixed day.

The only thing that changed in the changeover from the Julian to the Gregorian was the number of the day: Something like Tuesday the 12 was followed by Wednesday the 25th.

Yeah, I realize that. That's not the point.

The issue is not from the Julian to the Gregorian. The calculation changed from the ancient Hebrew calendar to the actual Julian.

You broght up the change from the Julian to the Gregorian, now you change it to a Jewish to Julian and yuou've offered no proof for this claim.

See above and re-produce two concurrent months with the sabbath falling on the identical days within the months on either a Julian or Gregorian Calendar.

[djconklin]

It's exactly as the Jewish Encyclopedia stated it to be: The Sabbath depending, in Israel's nomadic period, upon the observation of the phases of the moon, it could not, according to this view, be a fixed day.

"according to this view" i.e., "upon the observation of the moon"--the Jews didn't depend on the observation of the phases of the moon.  The Sabbath starts when the SUN goes down on the sixth day and ends when the SUN goes down on the seventh day.

[Cathlodox]

"according to this view" i.e., "upon the observation of the moon"--the Jews didn't depend on the observation of the phases of the moon.  The Sabbath starts when the SUN goes down on the sixth day and ends when the SUN goes down on the seventh day.

"It could NOT, according to this view BE a Fixed day". In other words, within the Lunar month, there would be 6 days of work followed by a seventh day Sabbath.

I gave you the exodus calendation and demonstrated concurrent months in the Bible which had the Sabbaths falling on the same specific days in those concurrent months. It's now your turn to replicate that with our Gregorian Calendar.

[djconklin]

 

The Jews didn't use the MOON to figure out which day was the Sabbath.  They used the SUN and counted to SEVEN.

I gave you the exodus calendation and demonstrated concurrent months in the Bible

If you did I miss4d it.  BTW, the Sabbath began at Creation not Exodus!

[Cathlodox]

The Jews didn't use the MOON to figure out which day was the Sabbath.  They used the SUN and counted to SEVEN.

Then duplicate what I demonstrated on a Gregorian calendar - you can pick any year to do it in.

BTW, the Sabbath began at Creation not Exodus!

then you should have no problem duplicating what Exodus shows. Give me a couple months where the sabbath falls on the exact same days two months in a row. That should be easy for one so convinced they are correct.