Author Topic: ARE we sinners, or DO we sin?  (Read 112 times)

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Offline RB

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ARE we sinners, or DO we sin?
« on: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 04:00:27 »
This thread subject was started two years ago by a lady who has not been back since base on the information concerning who she is and her last visit, etc.

Are we sinners? We are born sinners from the womb, for all that is born of the flesh from Adam are born sinners~ all it takes is growth to prove we are sinners and it does not take very long to prove this is so with all born of the flesh.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
John 3:6,7~That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
Before one can even see himself as a sinful being they need the power of God to give them a new heart that can believe and love him.....so, that person MUST BE BORN AGAIN FIRST and even then the battle between the FLESH and the Spirit will "just begin" (until then sin in our flesh is laying dormant to our understanding~see scriptures quoted below*) that should show us just how sinful our flesh truly IS.

Or, DO we sin? No "or" about this question~even though a sinner is born again by the power of God, they still are sinners who need daily forgiveness in order to walk in fellowship with God and that as long as we live in this body OF SIN and death. Sin cannot ever be eradicated from this flesh that we received from Adam's generation. That's why God creates a NEW MAN within us, he does not ONE THING to our old man for it is destined to perish.

*
Quote from: Paul after he was born of the Spirit
Romans 7:5-9~"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."
When one is born again SIN REVIVES in our members and we are able to see that it works DEATH IN US, but not until then. Of course the more a person strives to live holy according to the scriptures THE MORE SIN shows its working in our members! Self-righteous people DO NOT know anything of sin working in their members, for they have not the Spirit of God in them.

Okay, here's a new thread started~I said very little on an important subject. The floor is open.....RB

I just noticed that this is in the SDA forum section~I guess that's okay even though I'm not one of them.
« Last Edit: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 04:13:58 by RB »

Offline Rella

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Re: ARE we sinners, or DO we sin?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 07:15:50 »
This thread subject was started two years ago by a lady who has not been back since base on the information concerning who she is and her last visit, etc.

Are we sinners? We are born sinners from the womb, for all that is born of the flesh from Adam are born sinners~ all it takes is growth to prove we are sinners and it does not take very long to prove this is so with all born of the flesh. Before one can even see himself as a sinful being they need the power of God to give them a new heart that can believe and love him.....so, that person MUST BE BORN AGAIN FIRST and even then the battle between the FLESH and the Spirit will "just begin" (until then sin in our flesh is laying dormant to our understanding~see scriptures quoted below*) that should show us just how sinful our flesh truly IS.

Or, DO we sin? No "or" about this question~even though a sinner is born again by the power of God, they still are sinners who need daily forgiveness in order to walk in fellowship with God and that as long as we live in this body OF SIN and death. Sin cannot ever be eradicated from this flesh that we received from Adam's generation. That's why God creates a NEW MAN within us, he does not ONE THING to our old man for it is destined to perish.

*When one is born again SIN REVIVES in our members and we are able to see that it works DEATH IN US, but not until then. Of course the more a person strives to live holy according to the scriptures THE MORE SIN shows its working in our members! Self-righteous people DO NOT know anything of sin working in their members, for they have not the Spirit of God in them.

Okay, here's a new thread started~I said very little on an important subject. The floor is open.....RB

I just noticed that this is in the SDA forum section~I guess that's okay even though I'm not one of them.

Of course, you and I disagree on so many levels of "Before one can even see himself as a sinful being they need the power of God to give them a new heart that can believe and love him.....so, that person MUST BE BORN AGAIN FIRST."

But will not get into that.

What no one has ever successfully explained to me ( and I am sure others) is  why we are born a sinner?

What sin did the newborn commit to be born that way? Perhaps "the sins of the father as Exodus 34:7 says that God “[visits] the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation... Which of course would mean that all are born this way because once born a sinner... you will pass it onto you offspring.  ::doh::

We had no choice about being born, so why do we have a mark against us from the very start?

Offline 4WD

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Re: ARE we sinners, or DO we sin?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 08:16:30 »
We had no choice about being born, so why do we have a mark against us from the very start?
We don't.  That is a man-introduced doctrine that is simply WRONG.  And interestingly, the passage that RB posted, i.e., Romans 5:7-9, when properly understood, says that doctrine is WRONG.

Rom 7:9  I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

First, Paul is speaking about his own situation; his own life.  So then we have to ask how or when was Paul alive apart from the law. Certainly, based upon that verse, it was before the commandment came.  But what does that mean? Given what Paul said about Gentiles in Romans chapter one, it is not about being before God gave the Law to Moses.  There is only one way and one time in Paul's life that he was apart from or without the law and that is when he was not old enough to know and understand the law, whatever you might believe the law to be.  But "when the commandment came", that is when he came to know and understand what was wrong, it was then that sin came alive and he died.  He knew and understood what was wrong and he did it anyway; that was sin; sin came alive and he died. 

This is all speaking spiritually. Until he was old enough to know and understand the difference between right and wrong he was spiritually alive.  But once he was old enough and intelligent enough to know and understand what was right and what was wrong and did what was wrong he died spiritually.

He  had said earlier that "apart from the law, sin lies dead" (v.8).  That is much the same as Paul said in chapter 5 that "sin is not counted where there is no law".  Again, given his discussion in chapter one, Gentiles were not without law even though they were without the Law of Moses.  The only situation then where one could be considered to be without the law or apart from the law is to be incapable of understanding any aspect of right or wrong.  That is only the case of the very young and those too mentally incapacitated to know and understand.

Paul's discussion there is a direct repudiation of the false doctrines of Original Sin and of the grotesque doctrine of Total Depravity.