Are you a born again christian ? Sabbath Discussion

[Fem2009]

God says He will correct our behavior patterns....I don't believe that God just supplied the tools then it's up to us to use them...

He says that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes....if it were up to us to change ourselves or our behavior, we would never change...

God begins the work of salvation and He completes it...He also does everything else in between... It is all of Him and none of me...any change that takes place in my life God does it....

God bless

OK...let me ask you a question.

Do you keep the 7th day sabbath, as God tells Christians to do ?


 20:20   And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.  


 6:46   And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?  

If we followed the sabbath wouldn't that require not being online Friday sundown until Saturday sundown?

Did Jesus stop healing, preaching and doing good on the Sabbath?

Matthew 12:12
How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

Ok
Why is it so hard to understand a simple question. Jesus surfed the internet? I know going to church and doing good on the Sabbath is acceptable. That was NOT my question.

[Fem2009]

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

[Hobie]

you said "Christ makes clear that what He set from Creation was not to be changed.."


changed by men that is...but God can indeed change whatever plan He started...in fact He has changed many things since creation...most notable change is the plan of salvation....

all the verses you quoted in your previous post were not to christians since there were no christians at this time (during Jesus' earthly ministry)...the bible only refers to 3 groups of people...jews, gentiles, and christians...there were no christians until after the day of pentecost...the jews were under the law and gentiles never knew of the law...

the NT (starting with the book of acts) makes it clear that gentile converts could not be brought under the law...any part of it...in fact Paul says that if we are subject to any part of the law then we shall be subject to ALL of it...in other words we cannot pick parts out of the mosaic law and choose to keep them but disregard other parts..

so if i were to keep the sabbath as stated in the law, then i would have to keep all the law, including animal sacrifices for sin, wearing my hair and beard like the law says, and so on and so forth...and no one can keep every single law except Jesus...he fulfilled everyone of them for me...in other words He kept the law for me...so my trust and confidence is 100% in Him and 0% in my ability to keep every law or commandment....

if we love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength AND love our neighbor as ourself then every other law is fulfilled in Christ...

God bless

God and His Law does not change and the plan of salvation was made before Creation as God can see the end as well as the begining, it is man that tries to sin and tries to hide their purpose by twisting and muddling what defines sin.

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

[davidandme]

God says He will correct our behavior patterns....I don't believe that God just supplied the tools then it's up to us to use them...

He says that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes....if it were up to us to change ourselves or our behavior, we would never change...

God begins the work of salvation and He completes it...He also does everything else in between... It is all of Him and none of me...any change that takes place in my life God does it....

God bless

OK...let me ask you a question.

Do you keep the 7th day sabbath, as God tells Christians to do ?


 20:20   And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God. 


 6:46   And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 

If we followed the sabbath wouldn't that require not being online Friday sundown until Saturday sundown?

I believe that engaging in these debates on the Sabbath day is a way to witness to others.  So I believe that is very appropriate to do this on the Sabbath

[Fem2009]

God says He will correct our behavior patterns....I don't believe that God just supplied the tools then it's up to us to use them...

He says that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes....if it were up to us to change ourselves or our behavior, we would never change...

God begins the work of salvation and He completes it...He also does everything else in between... It is all of Him and none of me...any change that takes place in my life God does it....

God bless

OK...let me ask you a question.

Do you keep the 7th day sabbath, as God tells Christians to do ?


 20:20   And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God. 


 6:46   And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 

If we followed the sabbath wouldn't that require not being online Friday sundown until Saturday sundown?

I believe that engaging in these debates on the Sabbath day is a way to witness to others.  So I believe that is very appropriate to do this on the Sabbath

Good answer. Was interested in what your thoughts on this would be.

[ed2]

you said "Christ makes clear that what He set from Creation was not to be changed.."


changed by men that is...but God can indeed change whatever plan He started...in fact He has changed many things since creation...most notable change is the plan of salvation....

all the verses you quoted in your previous post were not to christians since there were no christians at this time (during Jesus' earthly ministry)...the bible only refers to 3 groups of people...jews, gentiles, and christians...there were no christians until after the day of pentecost...the jews were under the law and gentiles never knew of the law...

the NT (starting with the book of acts) makes it clear that gentile converts could not be brought under the law...any part of it...in fact Paul says that if we are subject to any part of the law then we shall be subject to ALL of it...in other words we cannot pick parts out of the mosaic law and choose to keep them but disregard other parts..

so if i were to keep the sabbath as stated in the law, then i would have to keep all the law, including animal sacrifices for sin, wearing my hair and beard like the law says, and so on and so forth...and no one can keep every single law except Jesus...he fulfilled everyone of them for me...in other words He kept the law for me...so my trust and confidence is 100% in Him and 0% in my ability to keep every law or commandment....

if we love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength AND love our neighbor as ourself then every other law is fulfilled in Christ...

God bless

God and His Law does not change and the plan of salvation was made before Creation as God can see the end as well as the begining, it is man that tries to sin and tries to hide their purpose by twisting and muddling what defines sin.

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

hobie you forgot 1 John 3:23 which tells us which commandments are being discussed in vs 24...these 2 commandments are the basic truths of genuine christianity...Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself...vs 24 cannot be referring to the OT law because a lot of the believers in the NT had never even heard of the OT laws (commands), because they were gentiles, much less able to keep them all, and there were more than 10 (over 600)...

these 2 commandments are not grievous (burdensome)...the yoke of Jesus is easy and the burden is light....keeping every aspect of the law is burdensome and is not light, for no one but Jesus has ever been able to do it...He did it so we don't have to....

being a Christian is a lifestyle, a lifestyle of love, for God and our neighbor and we are not going to be able to do it perfectly...if one was to look at our overall lifestyle and not single out moments of weakness, they should be able to say that we are trying to be like Christ...

if the law of God does not change, then I still have to offer animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sins, and I cannot cut my sideburns or trim the edges of my beard and a whole lot more....see, that is burdensome...offering all those animal sacrifices can get quite expensive....

God bless

[Hobie]

you said "Christ makes clear that what He set from Creation was not to be changed.."


changed by men that is...but God can indeed change whatever plan He started...in fact He has changed many things since creation...most notable change is the plan of salvation....

all the verses you quoted in your previous post were not to christians since there were no christians at this time (during Jesus' earthly ministry)...the bible only refers to 3 groups of people...jews, gentiles, and christians...there were no christians until after the day of pentecost...the jews were under the law and gentiles never knew of the law...

the NT (starting with the book of acts) makes it clear that gentile converts could not be brought under the law...any part of it...in fact Paul says that if we are subject to any part of the law then we shall be subject to ALL of it...in other words we cannot pick parts out of the mosaic law and choose to keep them but disregard other parts..

so if i were to keep the sabbath as stated in the law, then i would have to keep all the law, including animal sacrifices for sin, wearing my hair and beard like the law says, and so on and so forth...and no one can keep every single law except Jesus...he fulfilled everyone of them for me...in other words He kept the law for me...so my trust and confidence is 100% in Him and 0% in my ability to keep every law or commandment....

if we love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength AND love our neighbor as ourself then every other law is fulfilled in Christ...

God bless

God and His Law does not change and the plan of salvation was made before Creation as God can see the end as well as the begining, it is man that tries to sin and tries to hide their purpose by twisting and muddling what defines sin.

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

hobie you forgot 1 John 3:23 which tells us which commandments are being discussed in vs 24...these 2 commandments are the basic truths of genuine christianity...Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself...vs 24 cannot be referring to the OT law because a lot of the believers in the NT had never even heard of the OT laws (commands), because they were gentiles, much less able to keep them all, and there were more than 10 (over 600)...

these 2 commandments are not grievous (burdensome)...the yoke of Jesus is easy and the burden is light....keeping every aspect of the law is burdensome and is not light, for no one but Jesus has ever been able to do it...He did it so we don't have to....

being a Christian is a lifestyle, a lifestyle of love, for God and our neighbor and we are not going to be able to do it perfectly...if one was to look at our overall lifestyle and not single out moments of weakness, they should be able to say that we are trying to be like Christ...

if the law of God does not change, then I still have to offer animal sacrifices for forgiveness of sins, and I cannot cut my sideburns or trim the edges of my beard and a whole lot more....see, that is burdensome...offering all those animal sacrifices can get quite expensive....

God bless

So then the question becomes how do you love God and your fellowman.

A good way to compare is how a person who has fallen in love with that one they want to marry. Do you say I love you, then forget you have a date she made with you and leave her waiting, and instead go off and look for a old flames to have a one nighter and look for other 'dates' to spend time with women of easy virtue?

Or do you keep the date and get with her to expand the ways to show your love which pleases her and give their beloved their affection and attention to make the relationship closer.

Claiming you love God is one thing, actually loving and following what He asks us to follow is another. He has set a date on the Sabbath for us which is holy and sanctified....

Luke 6:46 NKJV 46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?

Matthew 7:23 NKJV 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

John 14:15 NKJV 15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

[ed2]

hobi

sorry for the mis-communication in my last post but i intending on asking a question, but during my train of thought i somehow forgot to ask...please, do not think that i am trying to belittle or criticize your beliefs in any way or even change the way you believe, even though i don't agree...

what you say makes a lot of sense if you stick with the OT...but in my study of the OT and the NT, i can plainly see that the OT law don't apply to NT christians... just the name, new testament (covenant),  God is telling His people that there is a better way now, better than the former (old testament)...

now to my question, sorry...if God's law does not change, then are we required to sacrifice animals to atone for our sin....since we are to keep ALL God's comands...

God bless

[Hobie]

hobi

sorry for the mis-communication in my last post but i intending on asking a question, but during my train of thought i somehow forgot to ask...please, do not think that i am trying to belittle or criticize your beliefs in any way or even change the way you believe, even though i don't agree...

what you say makes a lot of sense if you stick with the OT...but in my study of the OT and the NT, i can plainly see that the OT law don't apply to NT christians... just the name, new testament (covenant),  God is telling His people that there is a better way now, better than the former (old testament)...

now to my question, sorry...if God's law does not change, then are we required to sacrifice animals to atone for our sin....since we are to keep ALL God's comands...

God bless

Once you start to throw away any part of the Bible it leads to issues like this on how the Law shows to love God and your fellowman..as for your questions this is addressed in this thread:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,34224.0.html

[ed2]

the Bible does not make any any distinctions between God's 10 commandments and laws and ordinances in the Old Testament...commandment, law, statute, or ordinance, referrs to any one of the 613 commandments of God in the Old Testament including the decalogue...thou shalt not kill is a commandment or a statute or an ordinance or a law...there is no difference in thou shalt not kill and you shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread, in the Old Testament....God spoke both of them...one audibly from Himself and the other through a Prophet (Moses)...regardless who the people actually heard it from it was still a commandment of God...

today i am still bound by thou shalt not kill because it is repeated in the New Testament...but i am not bound  by you shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread because it is not repeated in the New Testament...

even the Jews (who the Old testament was for) today do not believe there is any distinction between any of the 613 commandments in the Old Testament...there are some that they are physically unable to follow though...like the law of tithing...they cannot take the tithe to the storehouse because there is no storehouse, which was in the temple, for it was destroyed...also there is no Levitical priesthood to take the tithe to...so you see, some of Gods commands in the Old Testament cannot be followed...

but, God's commands in the New Testament can be followed as there are only 2...

loving God does not mean following all 613 Old Testament commands, which some are physically impossible to do...

there is NO distinction between the decalogue and any other commandment in the OT...they were all from God...

again, if you keep the Sabbath exactly as it was commanded to in the OT, then great, that's fine by me and i will not judge you for it, just do it unto the Lord...i do not attach any labels to you...and i do not believe that the weekly sabbath is sunday, it is still fri sundown to sat sundown...i just don't think that i am required to keep it holy (separate) from any other day...i rest every single day, because my rest is in Christ...there is no better rest than this...

God bless

[Hobie]

the Bible does not make any any distinctions between God's 10 commandments and laws and ordinances in the Old Testament...commandment, law, statute, or ordinance, referrs to any one of the 613 commandments of God in the Old Testament including the decalogue...thou shalt not kill is a commandment or a statute or an ordinance or a law...there is no difference in thou shalt not kill and you shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread, in the Old Testament....God spoke both of them...one audibly from Himself and the other through a Prophet (Moses)...regardless who the people actually heard it from it was still a commandment of God...

today i am still bound by thou shalt not kill because it is repeated in the New Testament...but i am not bound  by you shall not offer the blood of My sacrifice with leavened bread because it is not repeated in the New Testament...

even the Jews (who the Old testament was for) today do not believe there is any distinction between any of the 613 commandments in the Old Testament...there are some that they are physically unable to follow though...like the law of tithing...they cannot take the tithe to the storehouse because there is no storehouse, which was in the temple, for it was destroyed...also there is no Levitical priesthood to take the tithe to...so you see, some of Gods commands in the Old Testament cannot be followed...

but, God's commands in the New Testament can be followed as there are only 2...

loving God does not mean following all 613 Old Testament commands, which some are physically impossible to do...

there is NO distinction between the decalogue and any other commandment in the OT...they were all from God...

again, if you keep the Sabbath exactly as it was commanded to in the OT, then great, that's fine by me and i will not judge you for it, just do it unto the Lord...i do not attach any labels to you...and i do not believe that the weekly sabbath is sunday, it is still fri sundown to sat sundown...i just don't think that i am required to keep it holy (separate) from any other day...i rest every single day, because my rest is in Christ...there is no better rest than this...

God bless

Except Christ makes clear it is the Commandments he is talking about and Revelation reveals who goes with Christ to the kigndom of heaven..

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[ed2]

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

the whole context that this scripture is in shows that keeping the commandments is not required for eternal life...Jesus was telling the young man that there is no good thing that he could do to inherit eternal life..it was evident that this young man had not kept all the commandments, only the ones that Jesus named in vs 18 had the man kept...and Jesus knew exactly which ones he kept, that is why He only listed those certain ones...because he knew the response of the young man...ahhh, i have kept those...but i'm still lacking something...then Jesus gave him instructions on what to do to have eternal life...vs 21.....go sell your posessions and give to the poor (love your neighbor as yourself)...then come, follow Me...(love Christ with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength)...

no mention of tithing, keeping the sabbath etc....this young man made a futile attempt to be good (keep the commandments)...only 5 out of the 613 he kept...but Jesus did not even mention that...he simply said to sell his posessions and give to the poor and follow Him...

i know this discussion started with linking being born again to keeping the sabbath...i do think we would benefit greatly if we set aside one day a week just to rest seeing how fast paced and hurried we have become...but to tell me that i'm not a real Christian if i don't do it on sunday or i'm not a true Christian if i don't keep the OT sabbath....there is no biblical proof that in the OT sabbath keeping that they met in the synagogue to worship nor in the NT that they met on Sundays....personally, i don't make it a habit to congregate on sunday as most Christians today do...

so to judge me (i'm not saying that you are, just speaking in general ) as to which day i keep, flies in the face of scripture...i dedicate all days to the lord

even Jesus didn't fully keep the sabbath (he worked)...

God bless

[Hobie]

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

the whole context that this scripture is in shows that keeping the commandments is not required for eternal life...Jesus was telling the young man that there is no good thing that he could do to inherit eternal life..it was evident that this young man had not kept all the commandments, only the ones that Jesus named in vs 18 had the man kept...and Jesus knew exactly which ones he kept, that is why He only listed those certain ones...because he knew the response of the young man...ahhh, i have kept those...but i'm still lacking something...then Jesus gave him instructions on what to do to have eternal life...vs 21.....go sell your posessions and give to the poor (love your neighbor as yourself)...then come, follow Me...(love Christ with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength)...

no mention of tithing, keeping the sabbath etc....this young man made a futile attempt to be good (keep the commandments)...only 5 out of the 613 he kept...but Jesus did not even mention that...he simply said to sell his posessions and give to the poor and follow Him...

i know this discussion started with linking being born again to keeping the sabbath...i do think we would benefit greatly if we set aside one day a week just to rest seeing how fast paced and hurried we have become...but to tell me that i'm not a real Christian if i don't do it on sunday or i'm not a true Christian if i don't keep the OT sabbath....there is no biblical proof that in the OT sabbath keeping that they met in the synagogue to worship nor in the NT that they met on Sundays....personally, i don't make it a habit to congregate on sunday as most Christians today do...

so to judge me (i'm not saying that you are, just speaking in general ) as to which day i keep, flies in the face of scripture...i dedicate all days to the lord

even Jesus didn't fully keep the sabbath (he worked)...

God bless

Correct, just following the Commandments will not save anyone, following Christ is the way to eternal life, and if we love Him what we do is the result of that love..

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.


 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[djconklin]

>even Jesus didn't fully keep the sabbath

If He didn't keep the commandments, then He would be a sinner and thus is disqualified to be our Saviour.  If you mean that the priests "work" on the Sabbath and that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath, then yes.  But, to avoid confusion it would be best to not call what He did "work" in the usual sense of the word (i.e., to earn a living).

[Hobie]

>even Jesus didn't fully keep the sabbath

If He didn't keep the commandments, then He would be a sinner and thus is disqualified to be our Saviour.  If you mean that the priests "work" on the Sabbath and that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath, then yes.  But, to avoid confusion it would be best to not call what He did "work" in the usual sense of the word (i.e., to earn a living).

Very true.