Author Topic: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?  (Read 301 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« on: Sat Jan 09, 2021 - 16:09:19 »
We have the following scripture:

Revelation 18:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

So we see that it is a entity that has become the 'habitation of devils' and full 'fornication', and God will punish this entity. And we have more scripture"

Revelation 14:6-11 King James Version (KJV)
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

We see again this Babylon, that is full of fornication, and that God will punish but now we see that those who worship this entity, they also will 'drink of the wine of the wrath of God". So who does that mean to a Christian?

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13762
  • Manna: 367
  • Gender: Male
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jan 09, 2021 - 17:53:26 »
So who does that mean to a Christian?
Good question.

Some will say that the prophecy was for 2000 years ago.  They aren't wrong, but in the larger context of Scripture, "Babylon" seems to have successors.  We see in Daniel a progression of beasts, starting with literal Babylon, then Persia, Grecia, and lastly a "diverse beast" which many hold to be Rome.  I personally hold it to be the Seleucid empire, but if we are lining up successors to Babylon, Rome would certainly come next.  But Rome hasn't been relevant in a long time (no, the Catholic church is not an extension of the Roman empire).

There's a question of how we should trace the successors. 

Should we look at those who conquered the literal Holy Land?  If so, we should be looking at the Islamic tribes and states.

Should we look at those places where Judah has traveled in exile?  If so, we should be looking at (literal) Babylon, followed by Spain, then Germany, and now the United States.

What do you say?

-Jarrod

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9488
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #2 on: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 04:43:29 »
Quote
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
To me, it is simple, even though it has not always been easy, for truth is hidden in the word of God, and is only found by diligent workers who are willing to search the scriptures and trust God for the true revelation of His truth, and not trust the teachings of men, that usually are spoken in defense of some religious affiliation, or some cult leader.
Quote
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
Quote
Revelation 18:1-5 ~"And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."
If we go back to the prophets beginning with Isaiah and work our way to Revelation, it should be very clear that Mystery Babylon is this world's system including both its religion and its commerce which would take in under the name of commerce its entertainments where the big money is if the truth was known~I could prove this so easy by considering how fans do not go to the games now (if so, very limited scale) yet they re able to still pay those enomorus salaries via through adversting, etc.

Consider briefly and let the prophet tells us who Babylon is in bible prophecy.
Quote from: Isaiah
Isaiah 13:1-11~"The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible."
The burden of Babylon in verse one is the SAME as the WORLD in verse eleven!

I could go through many scriptures beginning with Isaiah 13 and prove beyond a showdown of doubt MYSTERY Babylon in bible prophecy is THIS WORLD SYSTEM that has forsaken God to serve DEVILS and their own sinful lust.
Quote from: John
Revelation 18:4~"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
This call to COME OUT OF HER is the exact same call from these scriptures by the same apostle:
Quote from: The apostle John
1st John 2:15-17~"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."
Yes, the WORLD will pass away, or Babylon WILL FALL and be burn by FIRE.~which will be the PLACE of the LAKE OF FIRE where the wicked shall perish!

Hobie~your sect is fighting the RCC and calling them Mystery Babylon, thereby LIMITING Mystery Babylon only to the religious group and leaving the greater part untouched by your false understanding of Bible prophecy. Sir, it is NOT HARD to come out of false cults, but for one to COME OUT OF THIS WORLD'S SYSTEM in its wide application is so much harder for ALL OF US. Many reject RCC/EOC and many other false cults, yet the WORLD'S lust has a very strong hold on most of them! And I might add~all who limit Mystery Babylon only to RCC are being used by devils to keep people still in Mystery Babylon's many other LUSTS that it has to offer its captives.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 04:48:10 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Manna: 27
  • That’s 666 YEARS, people.
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 06:08:24 »
RB, this isn’t like you to miss the context of Isaiah 13:1-11.  Look a little further on in the same chapter.  Babylon in that context is not discussing the judgment of the entire “world” system throughout ALL TIMES of its corruption.  That Isaiah 13 prophecy context limits Babylon specifically to a time period for “Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the *CHALDEES* EXCELLENCY...” in verse 19.

This “world” of the CHALDEAN empire pinpoints the judgment of the literal Babylonian kingdom founded by Nebuchadnezzar, ending with Belshazzar.  We know this because God specifically said in Isaiah 13:17 that “Behold I will stir up the *MEDES* against them...” in order to destroy them.  The Medo-Persian empire we know took down the Chaldean empire in one night during Belshazzar’s drunken revelry, as Daniel tells us.

If you are wanting to define Babylon as the entire corrupt world system THROUGHOUT TIME, you cannot use this Isaiah 13 text to do that.  Context won’t allow it.   

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5838
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 10:18:59 »
RB, this isn’t like you to miss the context of Isaiah 13:1-11.  Look a little further on in the same chapter.  Babylon in that context is not discussing the judgment of the entire “world” system throughout ALL TIMES of its corruption.  That Isaiah 13 prophecy context limits Babylon specifically to a time period for “Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the *CHALDEES* EXCELLENCY...” in verse 19.

This “world” of the CHALDEAN empire pinpoints the judgment of the literal Babylonian kingdom founded by Nebuchadnezzar, ending with Belshazzar.  We know this because God specifically said in Isaiah 13:17 that “Behold I will stir up the *MEDES* against them...” in order to destroy them.  The Medo-Persian empire we know took down the Chaldean empire in one night during Belshazzar’s drunken revelry, as Daniel tells us.

If you are wanting to define Babylon as the entire corrupt world system THROUGHOUT TIME, you cannot use this Isaiah 13 text to do that.  Context won’t allow it.   

You have chosen a certain box, through which you view and interpret all prophetic scripture pertaining to global or universal application. All the world never means all the world to you, if it leads where your chosen box will not allow. All nations cannot mean all nations either according to the same, and on and on. You have placed yourself in this box, many of us are not in your box. Nor do your words to the effect that we are subject the parameters of your box mean anything to us. Nevertheless, you have the right to ramble on. As we continue to have the right to disregard the parameters of your box, which we have not chosen. Even those prophecies which had a literal and local application in the past, have many global and universal applications of the future regarding the underlying principles, apostasies, judgments and or reformations involved.

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. 6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: 8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Deny the duel nature of the above prophecy if you wish, you have no power to subject the rest of us to your narrow views of it, let alone God's ability to mean a lot more by His word than we can even begin to see or understand in our present state. Your limits are self imposed. The connection of the above scriptures to new covenant prophetic utterance, and the universal nature of the new covenant itself, are clearly seen by those outside of your box. Go to, reduce God's word to literal and local applications of the old covenant era with your self imposed blinders. God's own will follow the Lamb of God in the universal application of HIs kingdom during this new covenant era. Make no mistake about it, the harvests of this entire world are being fully developed and matured, and the Lord will soon return to reap them.

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

« Last Edit: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 10:22:39 by Amo »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 10:18:59 »



Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Manna: 27
  • That’s 666 YEARS, people.
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jan 10, 2021 - 13:25:00 »
Amo, you are misinterpreting what I said about the “world” in question in Isaiah 13:11.  Nebuchadnezzar had indeed been given all the kingdoms of the world to rule over, as God said in Daniel 2:37.  “Thou O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, and power, and strength, and glory.  And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.  Thou art this head of gold.”

Nebuchadnezzar’s own humbled proclamation to all the provinces (after the restoration of his kingdom) went out “...unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth.”  That was an empire-wide range for all those who received this message.

So I’m not arguing against the scope of the entire world in the context of Isaiah 13:11 - just the misapplication of it that RB is using to name “Babylon” as the representation of an evil SYSTEM throughout ALL TIME in this world.  God doesn’t do that, so we shouldn’t do that.

God used the pejorative title of “Babylon” against “that great city”, which “great city” in Revelation 11:8 is specifically “WHERE ALSO OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.”  This “great city” was Jerusalem of the first century - not the entire world for all time.   It is YOUR flights of inventive interpretation of scripture that go outside of GOD’S interpretations of His own prophecies.  Never a safe practice.

And those two harvests in Revelation 14?  Already over and done with.  The first “dried” harvest in Rev. 14:16 by the Son of Man Himself was that of the Matthew 27:52-53 saints raised from the dead along with Christ.  That particular harvest can’t possibly be the one at the end of the age, because THAT harvest was going to be reaped by the angels  - not the Son of Man alone (Matt. 13:39).

And the “vine of the earth” being harvested and thrown in the wine press?   Isaiah 5:7 already identified who that was.  “For the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant.”  It was this “vine” that was going to be harvested in the AD 70 era and trodden in the “wine press” of Jerusalem. 

All the way back in Deuteronomy 32:32, the song of Moses predicted this “latter end” for the nation of Israel.  “For their VINE is the VINE OF SODOM” (like Jerusalem who was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt) “and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter.”  God said that “in the day of vengeance I will recompense them” (Deut. 32:35 LXX).  These “days of vengeance” that Luke 21:22 predicted were soon to arrive in the first century for “this wicked generation” that Christ ministered to, and which rejected Him for the most part.   

Amo, you seem to have a habit of creating straw men out of what you THINK I’m saying, and then attacking that.  I’ve never said we can’t extrapolate an application from scripture prophecies for ourselves.  But FIRST, an interpretation has to be made which considers the particular audience relevance and time markers for those originally receiving the message, and ONLY THEN can we understand how to apply that to ourselves for our own warning or consolation.  You can’t just yank a text out of its setting and apply whatever modern-day interpretation you want to it.  First things first.

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5838
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 09:05:30 »
Amo, you are misinterpreting what I said about the “world” in question in Isaiah 13:11.  Nebuchadnezzar had indeed been given all the kingdoms of the world to rule over, as God said in Daniel 2:37.  “Thou O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, and power, and strength, and glory.  And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.  Thou art this head of gold.”

Nebuchadnezzar’s own humbled proclamation to all the provinces (after the restoration of his kingdom) went out “...unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth.”  That was an empire-wide range for all those who received this message.

So I’m not arguing against the scope of the entire world in the context of Isaiah 13:11 - just the misapplication of it that RB is using to name “Babylon” as the representation of an evil SYSTEM throughout ALL TIME in this world.  God doesn’t do that, so we shouldn’t do that.

God used the pejorative title of “Babylon” against “that great city”, which “great city” in Revelation 11:8 is specifically “WHERE ALSO OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.”  This “great city” was Jerusalem of the first century - not the entire world for all time.   It is YOUR flights of inventive interpretation of scripture that go outside of GOD’S interpretations of His own prophecies.  Never a safe practice.

And those two harvests in Revelation 14?  Already over and done with.  The first “dried” harvest in Rev. 14:16 by the Son of Man Himself was that of the Matthew 27:52-53 saints raised from the dead along with Christ.  That particular harvest can’t possibly be the one at the end of the age, because THAT harvest was going to be reaped by the angels  - not the Son of Man alone (Matt. 13:39).

And the “vine of the earth” being harvested and thrown in the wine press?   Isaiah 5:7 already identified who that was.  “For the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant.”  It was this “vine” that was going to be harvested in the AD 70 era and trodden in the “wine press” of Jerusalem. 

All the way back in Deuteronomy 32:32, the song of Moses predicted this “latter end” for the nation of Israel.  “For their VINE is the VINE OF SODOM” (like Jerusalem who was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt) “and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter.”  God said that “in the day of vengeance I will recompense them” (Deut. 32:35 LXX).  These “days of vengeance” that Luke 21:22 predicted were soon to arrive in the first century for “this wicked generation” that Christ ministered to, and which rejected Him for the most part.   

Amo, you seem to have a habit of creating straw men out of what you THINK I’m saying, and then attacking that.  I’ve never said we can’t extrapolate an application from scripture prophecies for ourselves.  But FIRST, an interpretation has to be made which considers the particular audience relevance and time markers for those originally receiving the message, and ONLY THEN can we understand how to apply that to ourselves for our own warning or consolation.  You can’t just yank a text out of its setting and apply whatever modern-day interpretation you want to it.  First things first.

That is all a big fat negative. We have already been through this. Obviously neither of us have convinced the other of anything. So be it.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Babylon is that great city, that woman, that harlot, which crucifies Christ afresh. Having once been part of authentic Christianity, but forsaking Christ in persuit of the power of the state over and above the power of the Holy Spirit of God. It is you who rejects the true Israel of God in this new covenant era. The Church of Christ. Who denies  that the church which has adopted the pagan apostasies within her just as apostate Isreal of old did as well, is Babylon the great. Which denomination crucifies Christ afresh through her false soul damning doctrines, including of course her transubstantiation in which she claims to create the literal body and blood of Christ Jesus at every communion, to be consumed by her adherents. Literally crucifying Christ afresh in every communion by believing and practicing such abominations. Which denomination has and continues to commit literal fornication with the kings of this earth to this very day. You are the one denying all the prophetic identifying marks easily applicable to the church of Rome, and spiritual realities of this new covenant age in relation to Israel. Not those who can clearly see these most obvious connections, and see and understand that the repeated biblical testimony concerning Babylon's interactions with the enire world are just that, being played our right before our very eyes for any caring to look and acknowledge that transpiring right in front of their faces. Go too, deny all such, and apply all such to yesterday. I have no desire to stop you from making your own choices. Nevertheless, the call goes forward -

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Leave the earth without this warning. Tell them it was all in the past. Give them a false security. I will not.




Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Manna: 27
  • That’s 666 YEARS, people.
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jan 17, 2021 - 11:04:04 »
Sigh...you’re doing it again Amo...creating straw men out of what I’m writing, and battling those made-up points.

Since when did I ever deny that New Covenant believers are presently the “Israel of God”?

Since when have I ever said that saints today cannot prepare for coming judgment on the nations of the world?

Since when did I ever say that EVERYTHING in scripture - bar none - is about the past only?

It is YOUR interpretation that wishes to totally disenfranchise the first-century believers of what was clearly a threat to themselves at the time, and kidnap those particular prophecies to ONLY apply to yourself in this modern-day generation.  This is being too myopic and self-centered with scripture interpretation. 

What scripture DOES allow you to do is learn spiritual principles from those past historical events.  If similar threats occur in another guise today, you can maintain a hopeful confidence that God can still effectively punish the wicked and can still faithfully stand by His saints, whatever they are called to go through.  Just as He did back in the first century when the “kings of the earth” high priest rulers in Jerusalem (the “faithless city” which was again portrayed as a harlot) were persecuting the believers.

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” (Rom. 15:4)

You have the heart of a warrior, Amo.  This is a good thing, and much needed for the body of Christ today.  But there is not much expressed in your posts of optimistic hope or confidence in God’s ultimate plan for good in this world to help balance things out a bit.

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5838
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Come out of Babylon, what does that mean?
« Reply #8 on: Fri Jan 22, 2021 - 08:27:49 »
You deny the spiritual and universal realities of Babylon and Israel in this new covenant era, when you constantly argue against all such interpretations presented according to such in relation to historic and present events, continually claiming all such as fulfilled in the past. You never supply any interpretation according to the spiritual and universal application of the same, but then accuse those of arguing against your Preterist positions of falsely accusing you of being a Preterist. Go figure. Why don't you help us out a little, and give us some of your views regarding spiritual and universal applications addressing history and current events in light of the same? Then I might be able to understand your position better, and believe that you are not just another staunch pure Preterist. If you were not, then surely you would present arguments or alternate interpretations other than Preterist ones. Would you not? Here we are, lets here something in argument of that presented, which is not Preterist.

I have no problem with dual prophecies which have a local and literal application in the past, and a spiritual and universal application in the present. As long as they make good sense, actually have a good historical fulfillment, and do not contradict other testimony of the scriptures themselves.

Meanwhile, as you continue to deny the application of Babylon the great to the papacies ever increasing global political influence, toward the resurrection of the beast from the sea as scripture predicts -

http://adventmessenger.org/jesuit-priest-invokes-pope-francis-during-presidential-inauguration-as-joe-biden-is-sworn-into-office-on-a-jesuit-bible/

Quoted article below from link above.

Quote
Jesuit Priest Invokes Pope Francis During Presidential Inauguration as Joe Biden is Sworn into office on a Jesuit Bible

As Joe Biden was inaugurated as the 46th President of the United States, Jesuit priest Leo O’Donovan, former president of Georgetown Jesuit University, offered a prayer for Joe Biden and for our nation. Jesuit priest O’Donovan invoked Pope Francis while praying on the steps of the United States Capitol, a first in the history of presidential inaugurations. So today we had a Jesuit priest in America invoking a Jesuit pope in Rome during the transfer of power for the Office of President of the United States of America. This is significant.

Then Joe Biden used a “symbolic” Bible to demonstrate the “significance” of taking the oath to defend and protect the United States Constitution. He used the Jesuit translation called the Douay-Rheims Bible. [1] Houston Baptist University reveals the following about this Bible:

“The Douay-Rheims Bible was translated from St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate by exiled English Catholic Jesuit priests in France in the late 1500s and into the early 1600s.” [2]

These are signs that Rome’s triumph is almost complete here in America. She has scaled the walls of our institutions while modern Protestantism is fast asleep. Not only is the Vatican attracting and influencing both the technical and religious worlds, not only is the Pope admired by politicians and business leaders, but now the Bishop of Rome has arrived at the Office of the President of the United States. Prophecy has described that this very scene would take place during the last days:

“For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.” Revelation 18:3.

Rome will continue to dominate the political and religious landscape, and especially here in the United States during the Biden administration. The stage is being set for the final act in the drama. Our world is changing rapidly and it is time for the God’s people to rise up and live the full meaning of the everlasting gospel of Revelation 14:6-12. We have a message that we must fully embrace, and this same message must be disseminated to the whole world.

“Are we to wait until the fulfillment of the prophecies of the end before we say anything concerning them? Of what value will our words be then? Shall we wait until God’s judgments fall upon the transgressor before we tell him how to avoid them? Where is our faith in the word of God? Must we see things foretold come to pass before we will believe what He has said? In clear, distinct rays light has come to us, showing us that the great day of the Lord is near at hand, “even at the doors.” Let us read and understand before it is too late” (Testimonies, Vol. 9, p. 20).
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 22, 2021 - 08:29:55 by Amo »

 

     
anything