Health Message in the Plant Based Meats

[Hobie]

It looks like the Health Message is taking hold on its own....


"What is plant-based meat? Here's a list of some of TODAY's favorite plant-based meat alternatives that taste, well, like meat!

◾Impossible Burger. ...
◾Beyond Meat Burger.
◾Beyond Sausage.
◾Lightlife Italian Sausage. ...
◾Abbot's Butcher "Chorizo"
◾Before the Butcher UNCUT Breakfast Sausage Patty. ...
◾Tyson's Raised & Rooted "Plant-Based Nuggets" ...

"If it looks like a burger, cooks like a burger and even tastes like a burger, it must be a burger, right? Well, not anymore.

"Burgers," made with plant-based ingredients instead of animal meat, have become a hot item in grocery stores and even fast food chains. The Beyond Burger — which Carl's Jr., the restaurant famous for its particularly meaty dishes with ads starring models, incorporated into its menu — and the Impossible Burger, adapted by Burger King as a new Whopper patty, are two examples of the trendy alternatives out there.

And unlike the fake meats that are often relegated into the vegan section, the newest crop of plant-based options are found in the meat aisle at your local supermarket. That's right, the meat aisle! These companies aren't just making food for vegans and vegetarians — they're coming after meat lovers."https://www.today.com/food/what-plant-based-meat-here-are-our-top-10-product-t160303

[Texas Conservative]

How would this correlate with the SDA health message when these products are extremely processed and less healthy than natural animal meat?

More sodium, carbs, and ingredients lists that match the junkiest of processed junk foods.

What a stupid OP.

[chosenone]

In the UK we have Linda Macartney meat free food. The sausages are lovely. I am not a fan of sausages usually but I love these. Yum yum.

We don't actually eat much red meat or bacon etc, its not good for you anyway and too much can bring on all sorts of cancers. My Former MIL died of bowel cancer in her early 60's and she ate LOADS of red meat. No bowel cancer in her family.

[Hobie]

How would this correlate with the SDA health message when these products are extremely processed and less healthy than natural animal meat?

More sodium, carbs, and ingredients lists that match the junkiest of processed junk foods.

What a stupid OP.

So cancer is better?

 "Red meat was classified as Group 2A, probably carcinogenic to humans. What does this mean exactly?

 In the case of red meat, the classification is based on limited evidence from epidemiological studies showing positive associations between eating red meat and developing colorectal cancer as well as strong mechanistic evidence.

 Limited evidence means that a positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer but that other explanations for the observations (technically termed chance, bias, or confounding) could not be ruled out.

8. Processed meat was classified as Group 1, carcinogenic to humans. What does this mean?
 This category is used when there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in humans. In other words, there is convincing evidence that the agent causes cancer. The evaluation is usually based on epidemiological studies showing the development of cancer in exposed humans.

 In the case of processed meat, this classification is based on sufficient evidence from epidemiological studies that eating processed meat causes colorectal cancer.

9. Processed meat was classified as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1). Tobacco smoking and asbestos are also both classified as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1). Does it mean that consumption of processed meat is as carcinogenic as tobacco smoking and asbestos?
 No, processed meat has been classified in the same category as causes of cancer such as tobacco smoking and asbestos (IARC Group 1, carcinogenic to humans), but this does NOT mean that they are all equally dangerous. The IARC classifications describe the strength of the scientific evidence about an agent being a cause of cancer, rather than assessing the level of risk." https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

[Texas Conservative]

So cancer is better?

 "Red meat was classified as Group 2A, probably carcinogenic to humans. What does this mean exactly?

 In the case of red meat, the classification is based on limited evidence from epidemiological studies showing positive associations between eating red meat and developing colorectal cancer as well as strong mechanistic evidence.

 Limited evidence means that a positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer but that other explanations for the observations (technically termed chance, bias, or confounding) could not be ruled out, Lamb is red meat.

8. Processed meat was classified as Group 1, carcinogenic to humans. What does this mean?
 This category is used when there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in humans. In other words, there is convincing evidence that the agent causes cancer. The evaluation is usually based on epidemiological studies showing the development of cancer in exposed humans.

 In the case of processed meat, this classification is based on sufficient evidence from epidemiological studies that eating processed meat causes colorectal cancer.

9. Processed meat was classified as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1). Tobacco smoking and asbestos are also both classified as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1). Does it mean that consumption of processed meat is as carcinogenic as tobacco smoking and asbestos?
 No, processed meat has been classified in the same category as causes of cancer such as tobacco smoking and asbestos (IARC Group 1, carcinogenic to humans), but this does NOT mean that they are all equally dangerous. The IARC classifications describe the strength of the scientific evidence about an agent being a cause of cancer, rather than assessing the level of risk." https://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

You will probably get cancer from the processed fake meats.  I anticipate studies being done 20 years down the road from all the preservatives, and processing of the ingredients to simulate something God has provided for us.  Jesus ate meat ya know.

[Texas Conservative]

In the UK we have Linda Macartney meat free food. The sausages are lovely. I am not a fan of sausages usually but I love these. Yum yum.

We don't actually eat much red meat or bacon etc, its not good for you anyway and too much can bring on all sorts of cancers. My Former MIL died of bowel cancer in her early 60's and she ate LOADS of red meat. No bowel cancer in her family.

Low fat red meat is actually good for you.   You are actually full of it.

[Texas Conservative]

What does scripture tell us about the SDA Health Message?

1 Timothy 4

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars [EGW] seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

[Alan]

If you're going to be vegan, be vegan and eat recognizable fruits, vegetables, and nuts. Eating pseudo quasi meats is every bit as damaging as just eating the real thing, introducing a host of new chemicals into our systems disguised as preservatives, seasonings, and congealers will not turn out healthy for anyone.

[Amo]

What does scripture tell us about the SDA Health Message?

1 Timothy 4

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars [EGW] seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

A prime example of twisting scripture to one's own ends. EGW was a woman not a man as specified in the above scripture, and a single individual, the above prophecy is addressing men as in plural. This suggesting an institution, not an individual.  While it is possible that the phrase men is used in the sense of humanity as it is often in scripture, there is also an interpretation of the above scripture which more precisely fulfills the details of the prophecy, referring to an institution run by men who actually did and does forbid marriage among themselves and call for abstinence from meats on certain days or occasions. EGW never taught anything forbidding marriage, but to the contrary upheld and encouraged the biblical institution.

Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21  It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

There were already members of the Church in Paul's day who would not eat meat and taught others so. He did not identify them as part of the prophesy you have twisted, to the contrary, he stated the it was good not to eat meat. Obviously, the prophesy under examination does not relate to those who simply support abstaining from flesh foods. It has been proved to be a healthier life style.

[Alan]

There were already members of the Church in Paul's day who would not eat meat and taught others so.

Who were these non meat eaters?

[Amo]

Who were these non meat eaters?

I don't know, Paul doesn't get specific, he just addresses a debate between some who didn't partake of flesh foods and those who did.

[Hobie]

You will probably get cancer from the processed fake meats.  I anticipate studies being done 20 years down the road from all the preservatives, and processing of the ingredients to simulate something God has provided for us.  Jesus ate meat ya know.

So then stay with the vegetables, nuts and fruits...

[Rella]

In the UK we have Linda Macartney meat free food. The sausages are lovely. I am not a fan of sausages usually but I love these. Yum yum.

We don't actually eat much red meat or bacon etc, its not good for you anyway and too much can bring on all sorts of cancers. My Former MIL died of bowel cancer in her early 60's and she ate LOADS of red meat. No bowel cancer in her family.

Back in the early 1980s we had the first of the veggie bergers.

NO ONE expected them to taste like a quarter pounder, but, in and of themselves were not terrible.

That seemed to be the start of a "trend" where it became imperative to make genetically altered food.

Now, I do not know about the UK but here in the states , nearly 40 years after those veggie burgers made their way onto the American menu responsible suppliers are making a big point of posting their meats as being "grass fed"  and no anti-biotics being fed to them.

And the veggies have become equally important in that they now have people looking for that NON-GMO posting on the labels.

Why is this?

I firmly believe that they are now just discovering the damage to "playing" around with the food and the effects that has had on our health in general.

There are explosions of things happening in the human body that are not for the good.

Diabetes is just one of them. It has become nearly epidemic.

Not to mention the ever increasing numbers of people that are clinically obese.

How about the increase in the number of people with Alzheimer's and severe dementia?

And much, much more. Including children increasingly diagnosed with ADHD, and our neighbor, who at the age of 7 was put on Prevacid.

It is my opinion that when they started to change the food supply that in turn changed the human body, and not for the good.

So, Chosen, I am very happy you like your meat free foods.

For myself I want real food. I want them the way God originally created them.

[Amo]

Back in the early 1980s we had the first of the veggie bergers.

NO ONE expected them to taste like a quarter pounder, but, in and of themselves were not terrible.

That seemed to be the start of a "trend" where it became imperative to make genetically altered food.

Now, I do not know about the UK but here in the states , nearly 40 years after those veggie burgers made their way onto the American menu responsible suppliers are making a big point of posting their meats as being "grass fed"  and no anti-biotics being fed to them.

And the veggies have become equally important in that they now have people looking for that NON-GMO posting on the labels.

Why is this?

I firmly believe that they are now just discovering the damage to "playing" around with the food and the effects that has had on our health in general.

There are explosions of things happening in the human body that are not for the good.

Diabetes is just one of them. It has become nearly epidemic.

Not to mention the ever increasing numbers of people that are clinically obese.

How about the increase in the number of people with Alzheimer's and severe dementia?

And much, much more. Including children increasingly diagnosed with ADHD, and our neighbor, who at the age of 7 was put on Prevacid.

It is my opinion that when they started to change the food supply that in turn changed the human body, and not for the good.

So, Chosen, I am very happy you like your meat free foods.

For myself I want real food. I want them the way God originally created them.

Yes, fast food for the almighty dollar, is largely responsible for all of our food being negatively altered. As though we could improve upon God's design, in order to make a buck.

[4WD]

Yes, fast food for the almighty dollar, is largely responsible for all of our food being negatively altered. As though we could improve upon God's design, in order to make a buck.

The fast food industry is but a very small part of the processed food industry.

[Texas Conservative]

So then stay with the vegetables, nuts and fruits...

Naw man.  Gonna eat red meat, chicken, etc.  Good tasting animal flesh.

[Amo]

The fast food industry is but a very small part of the processed food industry.

The fast food industry includes all who seek to increase the speed of food from farm to table for profit. Especially those willing to bypass or disturb nature to do so. The system is rather extensive.

[Alan]

For many of our fruits and vegetables, we have gone so far as to lose the original seeds to grow this produce in it's original intended state. Everything we eat is in some way the result of human intervention.

[Amo]

For many of our fruits and vegetables, we have gone so far as to lose the original seeds to grow this produce in it's original intended state. Everything we eat is in some way the result of human intervention.

 

[Rella]

For many of our fruits and vegetables, we have gone so far as to lose the original seeds to grow this produce in it's original intended state. Everything we eat is in some way the result of human intervention.

Yes, and we are in a fine mess... physically as well as healthwise.

When I was a little girl I used to love V8 juice. For the past few decades though it has tasted badly and not what I
remembered from my youth.

Then about 15 yearas ago I happened upon "organic" V8 at a Whole foods and bought it.

BINGO... tasted just like when I was a kid... But far too expensive to add to a grocery list.

A few years back though I notice the "Organic" V8 tastes odd. I never thought to see if it was GMO free or not, but my guess is not.

Now, I notice that "Campbell's" tomato juice is fairly undrinkable these days....  I only buy it for certain recipes....

Kids today, who never tasted other would not know the difference...

But I do, and am grateful to at least have been alive when food was amazing.

I agree with TC...

I want my steak.... or the killer pot roast I make.
amazing.

I can pass on chicken, thought the rotisserie ones of Amish chix from our local market are to die for.... I use those for anything that
requires chicken pieces in a recipe ....

I will not give up my applewood cured bacon.

You may have all my fish.

[Alan]

Yes, and we are in a fine mess... physically as well as healthwise.

When I was a little girl I used to love V8 juice. For the past few decades though it has tasted badly and not what I
remembered from my youth.

Then about 15 yearas ago I happened upon "organic" V8 at a Whole foods and bought it.

BINGO... tasted just like when I was a kid... But far too expensive to add to a grocery list.

A few years back though I notice the "Organic" V8 tastes odd. I never thought to see if it was GMO free or not, but my guess is not.

Now, I notice that "Campbell's" tomato juice is fairly undrinkable these days....  I only buy it for certain recipes....

Kids today, who never tasted other would not know the difference...

But I do, and am grateful to at least have been alive when food was amazing.

I agree with TC...

I want my steak.... or the killer pot roast I make.
amazing.

I can pass on chicken, thought the rotisserie ones of Amish chix from our local market are to die for.... I use those for anything that
requires chicken pieces in a recipe ....

I will not give up my applewood cured bacon.

You may have all my fish.

Organic is good but it only refers to the technique used to grow the produce, if we have no original sources for fruits and vegetables, even our organic produce is only a remnant of itself and subject to GMO models the same as grocery store produce.


I also enjoy meat, pretty much all of it with the exception of organs. Shellfish is my favorite.

[Alan]

Why the disagreement?

[Amo]

Why the disagreement?

This is where perception in the individual mind causes many communication problems. I saw a frowning face nodding its head as an expression of sadness regarding the state we are in, not as a statement of disagreement. No disagreement, just sadness.

[Alan]

This is where perception in the individual mind causes many communication problems. I saw a frowning face nodding its head as an expression of sadness regarding the state we are in, not as a statement of disagreement. No disagreement, just sadness.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. 

[Texas Conservative]

Organic is good but it only refers to the technique used to grow the produce, if we have no original sources for fruits and vegetables, even our organic produce is only a remnant of itself and subject to GMO models the same as grocery store produce.


I also enjoy meat, pretty much all of it with the exception of organs. Shellfish is my favorite.

I like pig organs made into scrapple.  Good stuff. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapple

[Alan]

I like pig organs made into scrapple.  Good stuff. 

I would try it, the texture appears to be much like meat loaf which I love. I also love a good hot dog, so there's that.

[Texas Conservative]

I would try it, the texture appears to be much like meat loaf which I love. I also love a good hot dog, so there's that.

It is like meatloaf, but pan fried for breakfast.

[chosenone]

So then stay with the vegetables, nuts and fruits...

We try and eat a very healthy diet. As you say, lots of fruit, veges, salad, nuts, and also oats for breakfast with seeds and raisins and sultanas, only wholemeal bread, pulses, fish, raisins and sultanas, chicken, eggs and try to drink lots of fluids.
We probably only eat red meat twice a month, and bacon about once every 2 months. We sometimes eat turkey bacon.

We have a salad bar at our local supermarket and I am always buying different types of salad there, yummy.

In the end it depends on how healthy we want to be. 

The sausages we sometimes eat are make from plants and healthy, and also taste much nicer than normal ones. 

[chosenone]

Back in the early 1980s we had the first of the veggie bergers.

NO ONE expected them to taste like a quarter pounder, but, in and of themselves were not terrible.

That seemed to be the start of a "trend" where it became imperative to make genetically altered food.

Now, I do not know about the UK but here in the states , nearly 40 years after those veggie burgers made their way onto the American menu responsible suppliers are making a big point of posting their meats as being "grass fed"  and no anti-biotics being fed to them.

And the veggies have become equally important in that they now have people looking for that NON-GMO posting on the labels.

Why is this?

I firmly believe that they are now just discovering the damage to "playing" around with the food and the effects that has had on our health in general.

There are explosions of things happening in the human body that are not for the good.

Diabetes is just one of them. It has become nearly epidemic.

Not to mention the ever increasing numbers of people that are clinically obese.

How about the increase in the number of people with Alzheimer's and severe dementia?

And much, much more. Including children increasingly diagnosed with ADHD, and our neighbor, who at the age of 7 was put on Prevacid.

It is my opinion that when they started to change the food supply that in turn changed the human body, and not for the good.

So, Chosen, I am very happy you like your meat free foods.

For myself I want real food. I want them the way God originally created them.

What do you think that Adam and Eve ate before the fall? Are fruits, salad, veges and fish not created by God?
 
Of course meat free foods are real food, they are just not dead animals. They are mainly plants. The farming industry today isn't as God intended, far from it. All the rubbish they feed the animals and chemicals they pump into them. Much meat is also highly processed. 

[Texas Conservative]

We try and eat a very healthy diet. As you say, lots of fruit, veges, salad, nuts, and also oats for breakfast with seeds and raisins and sultanas, only wholemeal bread, pulses, fish, raisins and sultanas, chicken, eggs and try to drink lots of fluids.
We probably only eat red meat twice a month, and bacon about once every 2 months. We sometimes eat turkey bacon.

We have a salad bar at our local supermarket and I am always buying different types of salad there, yummy.

In the end it depends on how healthy we want to be. 

The sausages we sometimes eat are make from plants and healthy, and also taste much nicer than normal ones.

Sausages made from plants are not healthy.  They are highly processed.  You have been fooled by clever marketing.

[4WD]

The sausages we sometimes eat are make from plants and healthy, and also taste much nicer than normal ones.

Obviously what you are eating is not sausage.  I have no idea what it really is but it certainly is not sausage.  It is some concoction ginned up by some company and called "sausage".  If you like it, there is nothing wrong with that, but it isn't sausage.  The reason that the company calls it "sausage" is that you probably wouldn't even buy it if they called it something else like "fried plant patties".  If you don't want to eat real sausage then don't, but why kid yourself about what that stuff really is. It is all a marketing ploy and has little if anything to do with nutrition or eating healthy.

[mommydi]

Obviously what you are eating is not sausage.  I have no idea what it really is but it certainly is not sausage.  It is some concoction ginned up by some company and called "sausage".  If you like it, there is nothing wrong with that...

I looked up the above mentioned "sausage" and the burgers from the same product line. They're mostly textured soy protein, which isn't healthy for anyone. Processed soy not only messes with the thyroid, but is also a phytoestrogen. Substitute processed soy (phytoestrogen) for real meat protein (which supports healthy testosterone levels) in a man's diet and see what happens -
"... side effects in men, including breast enlargement, decreased facial and body hair growth, mood swings, erectile dysfunction, decreased libido, and lowered sperm count."
The only soy that could be considered healthy is fermented soy, such as natto, but natto and other fermented soy products are an acquired taste that most westerners find disgusting (slimy texture and pungent flavor)

https://probiotics.mercola.com/fermented-vs-unfermented-soy.html

[mommydi]

Low fat red meat is actually good for you.   You are actually full of it.

On a ketogenic diet, high fat red meat is good for you. Think I'll grill a nice, fatty rib eye tonight! However, I'll have a salad or grilled vegetables with it instead of a baked potato or any type of grain. Consuming starches and grains with the fatty meat is what takes it into an unhealthy zone.

[mommydi]

For many of our fruits and vegetables, we have gone so far as to lose the original seeds to grow this produce in it's original intended state. Everything we eat is in some way the result of human intervention.

True. Not long ago I saw a chart showing the differences between fruits of ancient days compared to the same fruit today. Today's fruit is genetically modified to be much larger, fleshier, and higher in sugar content.
One of the healthiest fruits a person can eat is wild blueberries. Their antioxidant content is much higher than store bought, cultivated varieties, and they also have a richer blueberry flavor. They have also not been genetically modified and moderate portions have a very low glycemic impact. Wild blueberries are a true superfood.

[mommydi]

So cancer is better?

 "Red meat was classified as Group 2A, probably carcinogenic to humans. What does this mean exactly?

People have to be careful which studies they believe. A large study that is quoted by health professionals that claims soy products are healthy can't be taken seriously because the study was sponsored by Ralston Purina which is the largest producer of soy protein in the U.S.
Same way you can't automatically believe a study that shows meat is harmful when the study was sponsored by PETA or vegan food corporation.