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Author Topic: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day  (Read 7644 times)

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Offline djconklin

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 08:40:54 AM »
>Only our Sabbath rest in Christ is never directed or commanded in physical terms,

The Sabbath is the sign of that rest in Him.  The command was made back at Creation and then explicitly stated at Sinai.

>SDA's hinge it on a day.

We do not; we simply choose to love God with all our heart, mind and strength and to follow His commands.

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 08:40:54 AM »

Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2010, 10:43:22 PM »
>Our Sabbath rest is in Christ.

That is correct.  As we say: when you physically rest on the Sabbath you show that you are resting in him spiritually.  In fact, the only way you can "keep the Sabbath holy" is to rest in Christ.

Only our Sabbath rest in Christ is never directed or commanded in physical terms, it is always defined in spiritual terms, 24-7.  SDA's hinge it on a day.


Exo 20:8  "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10  but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


I don't understand how you can say that the Sabbath rest is never directed or commanded in physical terms.  The Bible plainly states in verse 10 that we are not to do any work.  Last time I checked work is very physical.  And as far as how we are to keep that Sabbath, that is also stated very plainly in the above verses to me.  Verse 9 says that we have 6 days to work and do all our normal mundane labor.  Then verse 10 starts with the word "but."  This word implies that the seventh day or the Sabbath is different.  The reason that I keep the Sabbath is because Jesus kept the Sabbath, He is my example.  He didn't come to do away with the law, He came to give it a broader, deeper meaning.  I don't recommend Sabbath keeping to anyone who doesn't love God and neither does Jesus.  He says that if you love Him, then keep His Sabbath.  If you don't love Him, then do what you want.

I also have read somewhere else that some are suggesting that you can't keep the Sabbath without sacrifice.  That is completely and totally false.  If you read your Bible you will see that the Sabbath was instituted in Eden. (A perfect world, NO SIN i.e. NO KILLING!)  For anyone to think that you have to sacrifice to keep the Sabbath is doing harm to the Bible and what is says.  

I can't help but think how absurd the the whole thing is.  The Sabbath commandment is the only one that starts with the word "remember."  It is the longest commandment in the ten.  It is the only commandment that states who God is. (He is the creator, that is why we are to worship Him the way He asks us to)  I hear all the time that keeping the Sabbath is legalism.  God is asking us to rest and many want to ignore His recommendation and work.  Who is stressing works?  You see, it is all about trusting that God will provide for all your needs.  If you don't believe that He will, I guess it only makes sense to ignore His wishes and attempt to work out your own salvation, but IT WON'T WORK!  

You seam very bitter and very angry about the fact that SDA's choose to follow Him out of our love for Him.  It is very easy to say the right things and act pious, it is a totally different thing to prove it!  You know the old saying:  Talk is cheap!
He says, if you love me keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15  "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Joh 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.


The Sabbath is also about cultivating a love relationship with God.  You wouldn't stay married long if you ignored your spouses wishes and never spent any time with her, would you?  The very definition of God is love. (1Jn 4:8  He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.)  If it wouldn't work for your spouse, why do you think it will work for God?

 God is also jealous.

Deu 5:9  you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Deu 5:10  but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


Why is He jealous?  He is jealous because He doesn't want to share us with anyone or anything else!

Mat 10:37  He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
Mat 10:38  And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.


I would like to suggest to you that all born again, God loving Christians will want to serve God and do what He asks them out of the love that they have for Him.  When we first were saved, did we do everything "right?"  No, we had to grow in grace.  We all have more growing to do!  The difference is, do you want to?

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2010, 10:43:22 PM »

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2010, 07:52:12 AM »
>Our Sabbath rest is in Christ.

That is correct.  As we say: when you physically rest on the Sabbath you show that you are resting in him spiritually.  In fact, the only way you can "keep the Sabbath holy" is to rest in Christ.

Only our Sabbath rest in Christ is never directed or commanded in physical terms, it is always defined in spiritual terms, 24-7.  SDA's hinge it on a day.


Exo 20:8  "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9  Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10  but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


I don't understand how you can say that the Sabbath rest is never directed or commanded in physical terms.  The Bible plainly states in verse 10 that we are not to do any work.  Last time I checked work is very physical.  And as far as how we are to keep that Sabbath, that is also stated very plainly in the above verses to me.  Verse 9 says that we have 6 days to work and do all our normal mundane labor.  Then verse 10 starts with the word "but."  This word implies that the seventh day or the Sabbath is different.  The reason that I keep the Sabbath is because Jesus kept the Sabbath, He is my example.  He didn't come to do away with the law, He came to give it a broader, deeper meaning.  I don't recommend Sabbath keeping to anyone who doesn't love God and neither does Jesus.  He says that if you love Him, then keep His Sabbath.  If you don't love Him, then do what you want.

I also have read somewhere else that some are suggesting that you can't keep the Sabbath without sacrifice.  That is completely and totally false.  If you read your Bible you will see that the Sabbath was instituted in Eden. (A perfect world, NO SIN i.e. NO KILLING!)  For anyone to think that you have to sacrifice to keep the Sabbath is doing harm to the Bible and what is says.  

I can't help but think how absurd the the whole thing is.  The Sabbath commandment is the only one that starts with the word "remember."  It is the longest commandment in the ten.  It is the only commandment that states who God is. (He is the creator, that is why we are to worship Him the way He asks us to)  I hear all the time that keeping the Sabbath is legalism.  God is asking us to rest and many want to ignore His recommendation and work.  Who is stressing works?  You see, it is all about trusting that God will provide for all your needs.  If you don't believe that He will, I guess it only makes sense to ignore His wishes and attempt to work out your own salvation, but IT WON'T WORK!  

You seam very bitter and very angry about the fact that SDA's choose to follow Him out of our love for Him.  It is very easy to say the right things and act pious, it is a totally different thing to prove it!  You know the old saying:  Talk is cheap!
He says, if you love me keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15  "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Joh 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.


The Sabbath is also about cultivating a love relationship with God.  You wouldn't stay married long if you ignored your spouses wishes and never spent any time with her, would you?  The very definition of God is love. (1Jn 4:8  He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.)  If it wouldn't work for your spouse, why do you think it will work for God?

 God is also jealous.

Deu 5:9  you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Deu 5:10  but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


Why is He jealous?  He is jealous because He doesn't want to share us with anyone or anything else!

Mat 10:37  He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
Mat 10:38  And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.


I would like to suggest to you that all born again, God loving Christians will want to serve God and do what He asks them out of the love that they have for Him.  When we first were saved, did we do everything "right?"  No, we had to grow in grace.  We all have more growing to do!  The difference is, do you want to?

First off, I am not bitter and angry, and since you do not know me, you would not know whether I was or was not anyway.  I don't like false doctrine, and I have a responsibility to point it out and attempt to correct it wherever I find it.

Numbers 28 demands a Sabbath sacrifice:

Numbers 28:9-10  9 "'On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah {9 That is, probably about 4 quarts (about 4.5 liters); also in verses 12, 20 and 28} of fine flour mixed with oil.  10 This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

It isn't optional, it is a direct command from God.  The Sabbath was not instituted at Creation in the Garden of Eden unless you can show me, biblically, Adam & Eve either being commanded to observe it, or actually physically observing it.  Deuteronomy 5 plainly states that the covenant given at Mt. Sinai, which includes the Sabbath did not exist until this point in time.

Deuteronomy 5:1-3  Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, O Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them.  2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.  3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.  

Genesis has a prototype for the Sabbath, but that actual ritual is not introduced anywhere until Mt. Sinai.  What I find absurd is that you will make the day so important, but believe that you can take all the other requirements and ditch them as if they are meaningless.  If the day command is so important, so is the sacrifice command, the no work command, and by extension, every single 613 individual components of The Law itself.

As for your last sentence, I would use extreme caution.  You are bordering on saying that if someone does not observe the Sabbath, according to your understanding of it, that they are not saved and that is a major no-no.

You did not answer my question.  I will ask again, in case you missed it:

How, exactly, do you keep the Sabbath?

Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2010, 11:32:40 AM »
First off, Numbers 28 and 29 are dealing with sacrifice, I agree.  The sacrificial system was done away with at the cross.

Deu 31:26  "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
Col 2:14  having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


This Book of the Law is the sacrificial system that pointed to Jesus coming and dying on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice for sin.  This is completely and totally separate from God's 10 Commandments.

Deu 10:2  And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.'


Deu 10:5  Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, just as the LORD commanded me."

God wrote the 10 Commandments with His own finger on stone to show the importance of them.  He asked Moses to write the ceremonial law because He knew that Jesus would one day die and the law of sacrifice would no longer be needed.  The ceremonial law was also written on parchment of some kind, or else it couldn't have been "nailed" to the cross.  You can't nail stone only paper.

Neh 9:14  You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant.


Two different "laws" spoken of here.  "Your holy Sabbath" speaks of the 10 Commandments.  "Precepts, statues, and law by the hand of Moses" is speaking of the law that was against us, the law that was nailed to the cross.
 
And to your claim that Adam and Eve didn't keep the Sabbath, I will have to admit that there is no verse stating that completely that I know of.  However, Jesus created man on the sixth day and then rested on the seventh day.  The story of the serpent and the eating of the forbidden fruit wouldn't have been the entrance of sin if they had not kept the Sabbath.  The Bible is very plain that sin is the transgression of the law.  So, by the very fact that they hadn't sinned until the serpent and the fruit story, they kept the Sabbath.  Jesus also said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (Mar 2:27)  In other words, He could have rested on the sixth day and then created man on the seventh.  But, man wouldn't have received the blessing of that first Sabbath with God.  I would also like to add that after Jesus' creative work, He stated that everything was "very good."  He did it right the first time, and after His perfect work, He created a memorial out of time for all to observe and remember what He did.

I will explain how to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible.

Exo 16:23  Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' "

We should do all or baking and in-depth food preparation ahead of time so it is not done on the Sabbath.  The key to keeping the Sabbath is doing everything possible ahead of time so it doesn't take time away from God.  When you dated, you didn't wait until your date arrived to prepare the food or clean up the house.  Your date would most likely take offense to that if it happened on a regular basis.  The Sabbath was set aside for holy use.

Exo 31:14  You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15  Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16  Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17  It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "
Exo 31:18  And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.



Exo 35:3  You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day."

God is not saying that you can't have a fire here.  He is asking you not to start one after the Sabbath because of all the work involved in starting a fire.  Cutting and splitting wood is very labor intensive.

Lev 16:31  It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever.

The Sabbath is a time for meditation.  We are to use this holy time to ask ourselves are we serving God with our life?  Is our lives in harmony with Him.  What choices can we make to better serve or Lord?

Deu 5:12  'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13  Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14  but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15  And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I was a slave to sin.  God lifted me up out of my sinfulness and is showing me a new way to live.  Because of what He has done for me, I am very thankful and willing to follow Him where He leads.  I reached out and He lifted me up and by His grace, keeps me from the sinful things that I have been guilty of in the past.  He is a mighty God!

Neh 10:31  if the peoples of the land brought wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a holy day; and we would forego the seventh year's produce and the exacting of every debt.

To keep the Sabbath, we should not go to stores and buy stuff.  We had 6 other days to go to the store.  Also, by going to the store or to a restaurant, we are causing others to break the Sabbath Commandment.  If people wouldn't go to the store or restaurants, they would close down on that day.

Isa 58:13  "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,
Isa 58:14  Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."


The Sabbath was set aside from the very beginning of time to be holy time we spend with Him.  Part of keeping the Sabbath is laying aside our desires to do our will and spend time with Him doing His will.

Isa 66:23  And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD.

Proof that the Sabbath was not just for the Jews

Jer 17:21  Thus says the LORD: "Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;
Jer 17:22  nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.


Mat 12:12  Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

In one of the churches I attended, a group of people purchased gas on Friday and drove up and down I-75 on Saturday in the attempt to help stranded motorists.  They would give them enough gas to get to a station, help change flat tires, or give them a ride if needed.  This is definitely loving your neighbor as yourself!

Luk 4:16  So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.


We are to attend church on the Sabbath, that is also part of "keeping" the Sabbath.

As far as why do SDA's put such an importance on the Sabbath?  The answer is quite simple.  In Christianity, no one will argue about not killing, stealing, or bowing down to idols.  In other words, of the 10 we see eye to eye on the other 9.  So, it is logical that if a portion of Christianity is not observing all 10, then the one that is not being observed is the one that needs attention.  If you were observing the Sabbath, but committing adultery, I wouldn't be writing all of this.  I would be reasoning with other verses to attempt to show you to keep the seventh commandment.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 11:56:50 AM by DaleinTn »

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2010, 11:32:40 AM »

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 04:58:50 AM »
First off, Numbers 28 and 29 are dealing with sacrifice, I agree.  The sacrificial system was done away with at the cross.

Deu 31:26  "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
Col 2:14  having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


This Book of the Law is the sacrificial system that pointed to Jesus coming and dying on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice for sin.  This is completely and totally separate from God's 10 Commandments.

Deu 10:2  And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.'


Deu 10:5  Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, just as the LORD commanded me."

God wrote the 10 Commandments with His own finger on stone to show the importance of them.  He asked Moses to write the ceremonial law because He knew that Jesus would one day die and the law of sacrifice would no longer be needed.  The ceremonial law was also written on parchment of some kind, or else it couldn't have been "nailed" to the cross.  You can't nail stone only paper.

Neh 9:14  You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant.


Two different "laws" spoken of here.  "Your holy Sabbath" speaks of the 10 Commandments.  "Precepts, statues, and law by the hand of Moses" is speaking of the law that was against us, the law that was nailed to the cross.
 
And to your claim that Adam and Eve didn't keep the Sabbath, I will have to admit that there is no verse stating that completely that I know of.  However, Jesus created man on the sixth day and then rested on the seventh day.  The story of the serpent and the eating of the forbidden fruit wouldn't have been the entrance of sin if they had not kept the Sabbath.  The Bible is very plain that sin is the transgression of the law.  So, by the very fact that they hadn't sinned until the serpent and the fruit story, they kept the Sabbath.  Jesus also said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (Mar 2:27)  In other words, He could have rested on the sixth day and then created man on the seventh.  But, man wouldn't have received the blessing of that first Sabbath with God.  I would also like to add that after Jesus' creative work, He stated that everything was "very good."  He did it right the first time, and after His perfect work, He created a memorial out of time for all to observe and remember what He did.

I will explain how to keep the Sabbath according to the Bible.

Exo 16:23  Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' "

We should do all or baking and in-depth food preparation ahead of time so it is not done on the Sabbath.  The key to keeping the Sabbath is doing everything possible ahead of time so it doesn't take time away from God.  When you dated, you didn't wait until your date arrived to prepare the food or clean up the house.  Your date would most likely take offense to that if it happened on a regular basis.  The Sabbath was set aside for holy use.

Exo 31:14  You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15  Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16  Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17  It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "
Exo 31:18  And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.



Exo 35:3  You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day."

God is not saying that you can't have a fire here.  He is asking you not to start one after the Sabbath because of all the work involved in starting a fire.  Cutting and splitting wood is very labor intensive.

Lev 16:31  It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever.

The Sabbath is a time for meditation.  We are to use this holy time to ask ourselves are we serving God with our life?  Is our lives in harmony with Him.  What choices can we make to better serve or Lord?

Deu 5:12  'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13  Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14  but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15  And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I was a slave to sin.  God lifted me up out of my sinfulness and is showing me a new way to live.  Because of what He has done for me, I am very thankful and willing to follow Him where He leads.  I reached out and He lifted me up and by His grace, keeps me from the sinful things that I have been guilty of in the past.  He is a mighty God!

Neh 10:31  if the peoples of the land brought wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a holy day; and we would forego the seventh year's produce and the exacting of every debt.

To keep the Sabbath, we should not go to stores and buy stuff.  We had 6 other days to go to the store.  Also, by going to the store or to a restaurant, we are causing others to break the Sabbath Commandment.  If people wouldn't go to the store or restaurants, they would close down on that day.

Isa 58:13  "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,
Isa 58:14  Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."


The Sabbath was set aside from the very beginning of time to be holy time we spend with Him.  Part of keeping the Sabbath is laying aside our desires to do our will and spend time with Him doing His will.

Isa 66:23  And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD.

Proof that the Sabbath was not just for the Jews

Jer 17:21  Thus says the LORD: "Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;
Jer 17:22  nor carry a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, nor do any work, but hallow the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.


Mat 12:12  Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."

In one of the churches I attended, a group of people purchased gas on Friday and drove up and down I-75 on Saturday in the attempt to help stranded motorists.  They would give them enough gas to get to a station, help change flat tires, or give them a ride if needed.  This is definitely loving your neighbor as yourself!

Luk 4:16  So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.


We are to attend church on the Sabbath, that is also part of "keeping" the Sabbath.

As far as why do SDA's put such an importance on the Sabbath?  The answer is quite simple.  In Christianity, no one will argue about not killing, stealing, or bowing down to idols.  In other words, of the 10 we see eye to eye on the other 9.  So, it is logical that if a portion of Christianity is not observing all 10, then the one that is not being observed is the one that needs attention.  If you were observing the Sabbath, but committing adultery, I wouldn't be writing all of this.  I would be reasoning with other verses to attempt to show you to keep the seventh commandment.

If the sacrificial system was done away with at the cross, so was the specific Sabbath day.  You can't have it both ways.

The Law is not seperate from the 10 Commandments.  The 10 Commandments are merely part of the entire Law.  You don't get to pick and chose which ones you like and which ones you don't have to follow.  That is what you accuse others of, but you do it yourself, and you practice hypocrisy every time you do it.  Go ask a Jew if the 10 commandments are the only part of the Law or seperate from the Law.  He'll tell you no.  And he knows much better than you do.

Isaiah 66 is not proof that the Sabbath was for more than just the Jews.  You've taken a passage dealing with the Millennial Kingdom, which is yet future out of context and tried to apply it to today.  That doesn't work.  Exodus 31 specifically says the Sabbath was given to the Israelites.  It says it three times.  Pretty hard to miss.  Numbers 28 commands, directly, a sacrifice every Sabbath.  pretty hard to miss.  If you chain yourself to the day, you chain yourself to the whole package, not just the bits you like or you think are making you somehow more holy than others.

You can't claim that Jesus fulfilled the sacrifice requirement but not the day.  He fulfilled all the Law or none of it.  You can't pick and choose which parts you do and do not wish to follow.

If you don't have a sacrifice, your breaking the Sabbath.  If you do any work, your breaking the Sabbath.  If you drive your car to church and run electricity and gas in your church on Saturday, you are breaking the Sabbath because you are causing a whole chain of people to be required to work, even in other countries.  Your logic isn't working, and you still did not answer the question:

How do you keep the Sabbath?

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 04:58:50 AM »



Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 09:40:07 AM »
I am sorry that you feel the way you do.  I have answered your question about "how to keep the Sabbath," you just won't listen.  I have told you that keeping the Sabbath can be summarized up with the idea of doing all the normal, regular things of life ahead of time.  In other words, if you came to my house on the Sabbath, the dish washer, vacuum, lawn mower, and any other normal everyday thing wouldn't be used.  We only watch nature videos or sermons on the TV.  It is a special family day to spend with God and wife and daughter.  The Sabbath is supposed to be used to build our vertical relationship (God) and our horizontal relationships (family and friends)  The two form a cross, which is what this whole thing is about anyway, God.  I will continue to follow my conscience and worship Him the way my conscience dictates.  If I am wrong, the God will be my judge, not you or anyone else.  I pray daily that He will lead me into a fuller trusting relationship with Him.  The Bible is very clear that not everyone who goes to church will be saved:

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22  Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'


Mat 7:13  "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Mat 7:14  Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

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My allegiance in not to a man, pastor, church, or denomination.  IT IS TO GOD! The SDA Church is the only church that remotely comes close to preaching a full gospel.  We don't believe in an everlasting hell, going straight to heaven when you die, or that grace is permission to keep on sinning.  That is actually one of the characteristics of God's "bride" in Revelation:

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We all know that the dragon is the devil or Satan.(Revelation 12:9)  The woman is God's true church.(Jeremiah 6:2, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:23-27)  All who claim to be Christians are the "rest of her offspring."  Revelation says that God's true church will be keeping the 10 Commandments and have the faith of Jesus Christ.  What other denomination do you know of that preaches the importance of ALL the commandments?  I am not saying that if you don't go to an SDA church you are lost forever.  Jesus said:

Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

This is proof that Jesus has His followers in all churches.  But, there will come a time when in order to continue to be one of His "sheep," we will have to change our church membership.  Maybe there will be another church at that time that is in a closer relationship with God, I don't know.  What I do know is that the SDA church is the only one around now that is attempting to worship God the way He asks.

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

It is very interesting to me that some people think that just because Jesus came and died on the cross, we don't have any responsibility to follow His wishes.  If your child killed someone and the court showed mercy, wouldn't you want them to be very careful about how they lived the rest of there life?  You would hope that they wouldn't go back to living the way they did before their sin.  Why do we think that God is any different?  God loves us so much that He will let us if that is what we want.  He will never "make" us do anything, He will only ask.

Joh 14:15  "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
 


And to your claim that Numbers 28 has anything to do with the 10 Commandments, why is it not stated in Exodus if it is the same "law" as you claim.  I tried to point out to you that there are 2 different "laws" spoken of.  They are very, very different for the following reasons:

1) Who wrote them
2) What the material was that was written on
3) Where they were kept in the Ark of the Covenant

You see the Ceremonial Law met its meaning is Jesus Christ.  That is why the veil was torn top to bottom when He died, showing that the sacrificial system was no longer needed.  Jesus kept the Sabbath when He was here, Paul kept the Sabbath after Jesus died, rose, and went back to heaven.  It is also funny to my mind that Jesus was on this earth for 40 days before He went back to heaven.  Why didn't He tell someone then that the Sabbath was no longer important?  Until there is a clear teaching of the Sabbath being abolished, until that teaching is just as plain and clear as the first mention, I choose to show my love for my Savior by doing what He asks.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 03:10:52 PM by DaleinTn »

Offline Michael G

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 07:43:01 PM »
Billy Graham who is not a SDA, points out the meaning of the Law

Billy Graham statement on question of Ten Commandments

QUESTION asked to Billy Graham:
“Some religious people I know tell me that the Ten Commandments are part of the law that do not apply to us today. They say that Christians are free from the law.  Is this Right ?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 08:00:48 PM by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 08:07:41 PM »
Sabbaths feast days are Ceremonial and are contained in the Ordinances,  the Sabbath Day Commandment is inside the Ark separate from what God told Moses to write and put on the SIDE of the ARK , Yes the Ordinance Law did also contain the foundation on which the ceremonial laws were written but never the less the TEN Commandments SPOKEN by God remain Parted in that they were first Spoken by God and put into a separate place, in the HEART of the ARK, where they lay in STONE waiting to be written in the tables of the Heart of Converted People of God…and that was the new Covenant..

Jer 31:33  But THIS SHALL BE the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I WILL put MY LAW in their INWARD PARTS, and WRITE IT in their HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be MY PEOPLE.

(Heb 8:10)  For THIS IS the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put MY LAWS into their MIND, and WRITE them in their HEARTS: and I WILL be to them a God, and THEY SHALL BE to me a people:

(Heb 10:16)  THIS IS the COVENANT that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I WILL put MY LAWS into their HEARTS, and in their MINDS will I WRITE THEM;

2Co 3:1  Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2  Ye are our epistle WRITTEN in OUR HEARTS, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, but with the SPIRIT of the LIVING GOD; NOT in TABLES OF STONE, but in FLESHY TABLES of the HEART.
2Co 3:4  And such TRUST have we THROUGH CHRIST to God-ward:
2Co 3:5  Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but OUR SUFFICIENCY is of God;


 (Mat 22:37)  JESUS SAID unto him, Thou shalt LOVE the Lord THY GOD with ALL thy HEART, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy MIND.
Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy NEIGHBOUR as thyself.
Mat 22:40  On these two commandments HANG ALL the LAW and the PROPHETS.

(Lev 19:34)  But the STRANGER that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and THOU SHALT LOVE HIM AS THYSELF; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 19:18)  but you shall LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF: I am the LORD.

(Zec 8:17)  LET NONE of you THINK EVIL in your HEART AGAINST your NEIGHBOR; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,' Says the LORD."


(Mar 12:30)  And thou shalt LOVE the LORD thy God with all thy HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy MIND, and with all thy strength: this is the FIRST COMMANDMENT.
Mar 12:31  And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy NEIGHBOUR as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


(Luk 10:27)  And he answering said, Thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all thy HEART, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy MIND; and thy NEIGHBOUR as thyself.



Exo 20:1  And GOD SPOKE all these WORDS, saying,
Exo 20:2  I am the LORD thy God,
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy UNTO thousands of THEM that “LOVE ME
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:02:03 AM by Michael G »

Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 09:03:15 PM »
That is right, Michael... thanks for posting about the new covenant.   ::amen!::

There is a misconception about the old and new covenants.  The only thing different is the writing material!  (parchment of some sort vs. the heart)

And thank you for the quote from Billy Graham, he is exactly right.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2010, 09:16:46 AM »
Quote
I am sorry that you feel the way you do.  I have answered your question about "how to keep the Sabbath," you just won't listen.  I have told you that keeping the Sabbath can be summarized up with the idea of doing all the normal, regular things of life ahead of time.  In other words, if you came to my house on the Sabbath, the dish washer, vacuum, lawn mower, and any other normal everyday thing wouldn't be used.  We only watch nature videos or sermons on the TV.  It is a special family day to spend with God and wife and daughter.  The Sabbath is supposed to be used to build our vertical relationship (God) and our horizontal relationships (family and friends)  The two form a cross, which is what this whole thing is about anyway, God.  I will continue to follow my conscience and worship Him the way my conscience dictates.  If I am wrong, the God will be my judge, not you or anyone else.  I pray daily that He will lead me into a fuller trusting relationship with Him.  The Bible is very clear that not everyone who goes to church will be saved:

No, you have not answered my question, you have skirted it.  I want to know how you, personally, keep the Sabbath according to biblical dictates, because that is what you claim to do and that is what you say everyone must do.  You, and every other SDA holds everyone to that standard.  The problem is, when you are asked how we are supposed to attain that standard, none of you ever answer the question.  How can I know how to get where you are if you won’t tell me?  What exactly do you do on the Sabbath?  When do you attend a formalized session of worship with your church?

I have not judged you or anyone else in this forum.  And don’t think for a minute that I do not recognize that statement for exactly what it is.  The “you are not my judge" statement is designed to circumvent any further debate or resistance on the issue.  It does not work with me because I know quite well what the biblical definition of judging is and I have not even approached it, let alone done it.  I have stated that your doctrine is false and I have stated that because it is.  You are free to worship on any day you choose, including Saturday, and I have never said or implied otherwise.  That is not the problem.  The problem is that you and your church actually do judge others, and condemn them for not worshipping on the correct day, and that is a biblical no-no.  Paul states that plainly in Col. 2:16, so you actually break that scripture every time you say anyone else is required to keep a 7th day Sabbath.  You actually do what you are accusing others of.

Quote
My allegiance in not to a man, pastor, church, or denomination.  IT IS TO GOD! The SDA Church is the only church that remotely comes close to preaching a full gospel.  We don't believe in an everlasting hell, going straight to heaven when you die, or that grace is permission to keep on sinning.  That is actually one of the characteristics of God's "bride" in Revelation:

Your allegiance is to a false doctrine formulated by a false prophetess.  The SDA church does not teach a full gospel, they teach a perverted gospel that is false and is based squarely upon human works, what a human being can do to attain their salvation, to earn it themselves.  That kind of doctrine renders the cross to no effect and tramples the death of Jesus on the cross under foot.  There are a few other problems with your statement above, and it brings the problems into stark relief.  The Bible teaches a literal, everlasting hell.  The Bible speaks about hell, it describes it as a literal place that is a place of torment and that is everlasting.  Jesus spoke more about hell than anyone else and He says hell is everlasting.  So the Bible speaks against your assertion that hell is not everlasting and that would also render your ‘full gospel’ statement moot.  There is no such thing as ‘soul sleep.’  That is also a heretical doctrine.  No true Christian believes that grace is license to sin.  That statement is false as well.

That is the entire problem with a false works-based salvation.  When one stops relying soley on Christ and His finished work on the cross and believes that they themselves can do something like be baptized, or go to church on the ‘right’ day, pay a big tithe, go knocking on doors handing out pamphlets, or confess their sins to a priest, they turn themselves into their own savior.  They no longer need Jesus because the persons themselves becomes the finisher of their own faith.  This breeds a feeling of spiritual superiority, pride and condemnation towards others because they are “doing

Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2010, 09:11:44 PM »
I want to go on record saying that I believe that God has His TRUE followers in all churches!  By their fruit they will be known.  I have never thought less of someone because they were not SDA.  Matter of fact, my best friend and his wife are not SDA and I think the world of them.  Only God knows the heart, not me.  Who am I to judge someones personal relationship with God?  I don't put anyone down for "doing" or "not doing" anything.  Your actions as well as mine are only a outward expression of an inward feeling toward God.  The fact is, God is in the saving business!  Praise the Lord!  I would have no hope without Him!  Because my sin put Him on the cross, I choose to follow Him where He leads.  I choose, out of my love for Him, to bring my life into total submission to His will.  If you don't believe that way, ok, we have to seek out our own salvation.  I am only stating things that have been shown me.  

As far as how I personally keep the Sabbath, I have my work done before sundown on Friday night.  We watch sermons or play Bible games.  I get up and get ready for church around 7:30 a.m.  We leave the house about 9 a.m. and stay til services are over around 1 p.m.  I get home, eat and try to get to bed by 3.p.m. because I have to stay up all night Saturday night for work.  I am in the process of trying to change jobs because I don't feel that I am spending the Sabbath hours properly with family and friends.

I just don't understand your hostility toward the SDA church.  Have you ever visited a SDA church?  Have you ever studied with and SDA?  Are all SDA people bad?  Should we all be eliminated from the earth?  Maybe we are not that popular, but neither was Jesus when He walked the earth.  I will say this for the SDA church, we are the only protestant denomination that has taken Matt. 28:19-20 seriously.  We have certain beliefs that all the protestant reformers believed in originally, but have now decided to stop the protest.

I am in no way judging anyone!  If you believe that you don't need to keep the Sabbath, or any other of the 10 Commandments, that is fine.  It is YOUR decision.  I choose to bring my life into as much harmony with God's will as possible, not to try to earn my way to heaven, but to show Jesus my thanks for His sacrifice.  He didn't have to do what He did.  I know how sinful I am, and I claim the power of Jesus Christ in my life daily.  Only He can give me the grace to live above sin.  He is doing it every day!  Am I perfect, no.... but I want to be!  I don't want to be perfect for my own benefit, but a witness to all those who don't even try because they can't.  They are right, they can't, but Jesus can.  HE IS ABLE!

Please, show my Biblical texts that support a ever burning hell.  I don't believe this doctrine because the Bible says that God is love.  How would you punish one of your children if they chose to dis obey you?  Would you punish them for ever and ever, or would you punish them and that be the end of it?  I believe that God will punish all who won't follow Him, but it won't be forever.  The effects of the judgment will be forever.




Offline DaleinTn

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2010, 09:35:59 PM »
But we have absolutely no command or even one example in the NT of the church keeping the Sabbath in any way.  Your argument is not a biblical one.  It depends on the words of a person, and your church, not the words of the Bible.


Luk 4:16  So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.


What is a custom?  Is it something you do once or twice in your life?  Dictionary.com defines custom this way:

cus·tom
   
1.
a habitual practice; the usual way of acting in given circumstances.
2.
habits or usages collectively; convention.
3.
a practice so long established that it has the force of law.
4.
such practices collectively.
5.
Sociology . a group pattern of habitual activity usually transmitted from one generation to another.
6.
toll; duty.

Going to church on the Sabbath was Jesus' custom.  That IS Biblical!  Since He is my example in every way, I go to church on the Sabbath.  Nowhere in scripture does He say not to follow the Sabbath Commandment and especially not before He went back to heaven.  Everything Jesus did while He was on earth had meaning.  He showed us all how to live.  He did everything for a reason.  Why?  If He came to keep the Law for us so we don't have to, why?

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Jas 2:18  But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Is it easier to tell Jesus you love Him, or show Him?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 10:05:57 PM by DaleinTn »

Offline Michael G

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2010, 09:44:16 PM »
Amen

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2010, 10:08:41 AM »
I want to go on record saying that I believe that God has His TRUE followers in all churches!  By their fruit they will be known.  I have never thought less of someone because they were not SDA.  Matter of fact, my best friend and his wife are not SDA and I think the world of them.  Only God knows the heart, not me.  Who am I to judge someones personal relationship with God?  I don't put anyone down for "doing" or "not doing" anything.  Your actions as well as mine are only a outward expression of an inward feeling toward God.  The fact is, God is in the saving business!  Praise the Lord!  I would have no hope without Him!  Because my sin put Him on the cross, I choose to follow Him where He leads.  I choose, out of my love for Him, to bring my life into total submission to His will.  If you don't believe that way, ok, we have to seek out our own salvation.  I am only stating things that have been shown me.  

As far as how I personally keep the Sabbath, I have my work done before sundown on Friday night.  We watch sermons or play Bible games.  I get up and get ready for church around 7:30 a.m.  We leave the house about 9 a.m. and stay til services are over around 1 p.m.  I get home, eat and try to get to bed by 3.p.m. because I have to stay up all night Saturday night for work.  I am in the process of trying to change jobs because I don't feel that I am spending the Sabbath hours properly with family and friends.

I just don't understand your hostility toward the SDA church.  Have you ever visited a SDA church?  Have you ever studied with and SDA?  Are all SDA people bad?  Should we all be eliminated from the earth?  Maybe we are not that popular, but neither was Jesus when He walked the earth.  I will say this for the SDA church, we are the only protestant denomination that has taken Matt. 28:19-20 seriously.  We have certain beliefs that all the protestant reformers believed in originally, but have now decided to stop the protest.

I am in no way judging anyone!  If you believe that you don't need to keep the Sabbath, or any other of the 10 Commandments, that is fine.  It is YOUR decision.  I choose to bring my life into as much harmony with God's will as possible, not to try to earn my way to heaven, but to show Jesus my thanks for His sacrifice.  He didn't have to do what He did.  I know how sinful I am, and I claim the power of Jesus Christ in my life daily.  Only He can give me the grace to live above sin.  He is doing it every day!  Am I perfect, no.... but I want to be!  I don't want to be perfect for my own benefit, but a witness to all those who don't even try because they can't.  They are right, they can't, but Jesus can.  HE IS ABLE!

Please, show my Biblical texts that support a ever burning hell.  I don't believe this doctrine because the Bible says that God is love.  How would you punish one of your children if they chose to dis obey you?  Would you punish them for ever and ever, or would you punish them and that be the end of it?  I believe that God will punish all who won't follow Him, but it won't be forever.  The effects of the judgment will be forever.

First off, I want to thank you for actually answering my question.  I really do appreciate it. 

First of all, I have no hostility towards the SDA church.  As I have stated before, I despise false doctrine.  I despise that which leads people away from Jesus and those things which take the focus off of Him.  It is that doctrine which I have a problem with, not your church itself.  I have no need to visit an SDA church.  I have a church home of my own and as the Associate Pastor of that church, I have responsibilities there.  That church is an Assemblies of God church.  No, not all SDA people are bad and no, they should not be eliminated from the earth.  Your popularity problems are actually generated by your church itself and an air of spiritual superiority which should not exist within any church, SDA or otherwise.  Your statement about Matthew 28 is one example.  The Assemblies of God fellowship was founded on missions as it's sole and core purpose of existance.  Of Protestant denominations, Baptists and Assemblies of God have more missionaries in the field than any other denominations, so your statement about Matthew 28 is actually false.  If it were true, than SDA's would have the most missionaries in the field, but as it stands right now, they do not.

Another poster in this thread, Michael, is another example of why SDA's are, by and large, unpopular.  You make some ill-thought out responses at times, but Michael is simply insulting.  He knows he is insulting and he consciously chooses to be that way.  Instead of dealing with questions and counters to his claims, he uses insults against a person's intellect and knowledge in an attempt to simply make them go away so he won't have to deal with them.  DJConklin does the same thing.  It is clear in Michaels case, that he has no formal training in biblical interpretation.  Even when given clues to his errors he does not feel the need to re-check his facts.  He simply insults the person for saying he is wrong.  That isn't constructive, it isn't edifying and above all, it isn't Christ-like and it says more about his witness than words ever could.  When confronted with a statement that their doctrine is wrong, Michael and dj do not check facts.  Their response is basically:  "We are not wrong.  You're an idiot!"  To their way of thinking, that's proof.

As to your keeping the Sabbath, you do realize that it has some tremendous problems, correct?  As in how it affects others?  Because if you actually believe in keeping the Sabbath, and you believe that everyone else should, your observance of it needs a huge world-wide infrastructure to support it and causes others to be unable to observe it.

I have shown scripture in regards to Hell and eternal punishment in one of Michael G's threads on that very subject.  Your position of "God is love" comes dangerously close to Universalism.

Offline djconklin

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Re: Hebrews 4 Reveals the Sabbath Day
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2010, 10:14:47 AM »
>Your popularity problems

Yeah, when the census bureau ask what denomination you belong to they come up with a higher number than we say we have.  Nice problem to have.

>air of spiritual superiority which should not exist within any church, SDA or otherwise. 

The RCC and a number of Protestant denominations teach that you cannot be saved unless you are a member of their church.  In the SDA church they teach that not even all SDA's will be saved and that there will be more members of other churches that will be saved than from the SDA church.  It isn't the SDA church that has "an air of spiritual superiority" about it.