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Author Topic: What is so wrong with eating meat?  (Read 2648 times)

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cs80918

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What is so wrong with eating meat?
« on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 19:45:08 »
What scriptures say do not eat meat?

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What is so wrong with eating meat?
« on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 19:45:08 »

Amo

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 20:18:34 »
Quote
What scriptures say do not eat meat?

None.  The original, and no doubt most healthy diet given to humanity in the garden of Eden, contained no meat.  Modern science realizes also the ill effects of meat, and that it is not actually a necessary part of any diet.  As soon as anyone has a heart attack, they will likely be told by their doctor to cut way down on it, if not to give it up altogether.  I just watched a documentary on netfilx the other day called Forks over Knives, it was very informative.  You should check it out.

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 20:18:34 »

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jan 16, 2012 - 08:14:16 »

No scripture says  'not to eat meat.

We are just told  'not to eat certain meat. Lev.11
   ::cool:: God obviously has his reasons. Having made us he would know what is good or bwd for us.

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 22:02:14 »

No scripture says  'not to eat meat.

We are just told  'not to eat certain meat. Lev.11
   ::cool:: God obviously has his reasons. Having made us he would know what is good or bwd for us.

Ellen White, the SDA prophet says that eating BUTTER, EGGS AND MEAT make it questionable that your prayers reach heaven.......   'How high do your prayers go"?

"You should be teaching your children. You should be instructing them how to shun the vices and corruption's of this age. Instead of this, many are studying how to get something good to eat. You place upon your tables butter, eggs, and meat and then your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go?" (Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 362, 1870)

-- and what is the deal with 'animal passions'?

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 22:02:14 »

Offline Beta

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 23:12:27 »

No scripture says  'not to eat meat.

We are just told  'not to eat certain meat. Lev.11
   ::cool:: God obviously has his reasons. Having made us he would know what is good or bwd for us.

Ellen White, the SDA prophet says that eating BUTTER, EGGS AND MEAT make it questionable that your prayers reach heaven.......   'How high do your prayers go"?

"You should be teaching your children. You should be instructing them how to shun the vices and corruption's of this age. Instead of this, many are studying how to get something good to eat. You place upon your tables butter, eggs, and meat and then your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go?" (Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 362, 1870)

-- and what is the deal with 'animal passions'?

Are you questioning scripture ie. Lev.11 ?

Since when are Butter, Eggs, Milk and Cheese forbidden 'Meat' ?  ::pondering::

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 23:12:27 »



Offline current occupant

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #5 on: Thu Jan 19, 2012 - 23:20:23 »

No scripture says  'not to eat meat.

We are just told  'not to eat certain meat. Lev.11
   ::cool:: God obviously has his reasons. Having made us he would know what is good or bwd for us.

Ellen White, the SDA prophet says that eating BUTTER, EGGS AND MEAT make it questionable that your prayers reach heaven.......   'How high do your prayers go"?

"You should be teaching your children. You should be instructing them how to shun the vices and corruption's of this age. Instead of this, many are studying how to get something good to eat. You place upon your tables butter, eggs, and meat and then your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go?" (Testimonies, Vol. 2, p. 362, 1870)

-- and what is the deal with 'animal passions'?

Are you questioning scripture ie. Lev.11 ?

Since when are Butter, Eggs, Milk and Cheese forbidden 'Meat' ?
  ::pondering::

I don't question Lev.11 at all.  As to the rest of the statement, Ellen is teaching that any meat makes the reach of your prayers questionable.

I am not sure where she draws Biblical support for her views on her reference to butter and eggs in the above statement.  She makes reference to milk and cheese in other of her writings.

What do you know about "animal passions"?

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #6 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 00:16:28 »
What do I know about 'animal passions ?'

Nothing, not even sure what EGW meant...except maybe that if we partake of any 'animal food source ' we might become like them..take on their nature. But I'm not sure...it's just a guess.

But anyway...I do not particularly condone or follow ANY Human leader of ANY denomination.
Scripture is my guide !!!   ::tippinghat::

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 00:46:46 »
What do I know about 'animal passions ?'

Nothing, not even sure what EGW meant...except maybe that if we partake of any 'animal food source ' we might become like them..take on their nature. But I'm not sure...it's just a guess.

But anyway...I do not particularly condone or follow ANY Human leader of ANY denomination.
Scripture is my guide !!!   ::tippinghat::

Here is what Ellen White meant by 'animal passions'. 

"Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction. They have already, from their youth up, weakened their brains, and sapped their constitutions, by the gratification of their animal passions. Self-denial and temperance should be the watch-word in married life; then, when children are born to parents, they will not be so liable to have the moral and intellectual organs weak, and the animal strong. Vice in children is almost universal. Is there not a cause? Who have given them the stamp of character?" (Solemn Appeal, pg. 178 (1870))


Seems that according to Ellen White, the sexual appitite is excited by eating butter and eggs and milk......  and that is a bad thing for wives - and husbands and the height of your prayers......

This is in direct opposition to the instruction found in the new testement and in the description found in the Song of Soloman.

Amo

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #8 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 10:37:46 »
Let's get some context again.  It is important to understand about the testimonies, that specific people and problems are often addressed by them.  They are not necessarily general statements to be applied to all.  though the principals should be sound.

Testimonies for the Church Volume 2, pgs. 362-64

Would they arouse you, fathers and mothers, to commence the work of reformation in your own houses? You should be teaching your children. You should be instructing them how to shun the vices and corruptions of this age. Instead of this, many are studying how to get something good to eat. You place upon your tables butter, eggs, and meat, and your children partake of them. They are fed with the very things that will excite their animal passions, and then you come to meeting and ask God to bless and save your children. How high do your prayers go? You have a work to do first. When you have done all for your children which God has left for you to do then you can with confidence claim the special help that God has promised to give you.

You should study temperance in all things. You must study it in what you eat and in what you drink. And yet you say: “It is nobody’s business what I eat, or what I drink, or what I place upon my table.

Amo

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #9 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 10:51:03 »
Some more context.

A Solemn Appeal, Pgs., 175-79

It is not pure, holy love which leads the wife to gratify the animal propensities of her husband at the expense of health and life. If she possesses true love and wisdom, she will seek to divert the mind of her husband from the gratification of lustful passions, to high and spiritual themes, dwelling upon interesting spiritual subjects. It may be necessary to humbly and affectionately urge, even at the risk of his displeasure, that she cannot debase her body by yielding to sexual excess. She should, in a tender, kind manner, remind him that God has the first and highest claim upon her entire being, which claim she cannot disregard, for she will be held accountable in the great day of God. “What! know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? for ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #10 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 15:49:48 »
Do we really need these long explanations why we should not be 'gluttonous ?

And as far as witholding sex from your husband is not exactly biblical, is it ?

Just goes to show how people 'interpret for their church. All heads of church make their own rules and lead them into perdition.

Offline djconklin

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #11 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 17:52:45 »
>Do we really need these long explanations why we should not be 'gluttonous ?

Some of us like more information that a trite one-liner.

>And as far as witholding sex from your husband is not exactly biblical, is it ?

Try reading the posts again and this time notice the biblial texts that were used.  Learn from teh priniciples that the Bible writers were trying to teach.

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 23:32:28 »
>Do we really need these long explanations why we should not be 'gluttonous ?

Some of us like more information that a trite one-liner.

>And as far as witholding sex from your husband is not exactly biblical, is it ?

Try reading the posts again and this time notice the biblial texts that were used.  Learn from teh priniciples that the Bible writers were trying to teach.
[/quote

I would not call 'SCRIPTURE trite !!!
I'm sure it gives enough information without people 'embroidering' on it as I have read in the above posts.
Bible Writers are one thing
Human Interpreters are another.


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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #13 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 18:46:39 »
>Do we really need these long explanations why we should not be 'gluttonous ?

Some of us like more information that a trite one-liner.

>And as far as witholding sex from your husband is not exactly biblical, is it ?

Try reading the posts again and this time notice the biblial texts that were used.  Learn from teh priniciples that the Bible writers were trying to teach.

I would not call 'SCRIPTURE trite !!!
I'm sure it gives enough information without people 'embroidering' on it as I have read in the above posts.
Bible Writers are one thing
Human Interpreters are another.



There is no example in the Bible where people were told to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet after the story of Noah.

There are no Bible characters who were vegetarian or vegan!

The Biblical principles of the marriage relationship were that neither spouse were to deny relations to the other.  This is the very opposite of the teaching of Ellen White.



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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #14 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 21:27:19 »
>Do we really need these long explanations why we should not be 'gluttonous ?

Some of us like more information that a trite one-liner.

>And as far as witholding sex from your husband is not exactly biblical, is it ?

Try reading the posts again and this time notice the biblial texts that were used.  Learn from teh priniciples that the Bible writers were trying to teach.

I would not call 'SCRIPTURE trite !!!
I'm sure it gives enough information without people 'embroidering' on it as I have read in the above posts.
Bible Writers are one thing
Human Interpreters are another.

There is no example in the Bible where people were told to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet after the story of Noah.

There are no Bible characters who were vegetarian or vegan!

The Biblical principles of the marriage relationship were that neither spouse were to deny relations to the other.  This is the very opposite of the teaching of Ellen White.

Not sure why you replied to me since I am more in agreement with you than EGW who I think has taken much scripture out of context.
To keep your husband on a severly restricted diet AND hold back on a loving relationship is really taking things too far...would any man put up with it  ?  ::headscratch:: ::frustrated::

Amo

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #15 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 22:53:28 »
Quote
There are no Bible characters who were vegetarian or vegan!

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:21-23 (KJV)

I'm sure there have always been vegetarians.  Some prefer the original diet given to humanity.  It is healthier.  There are better reasons today to not eat meat, than ever before. 

Quote
The Biblical principles of the marriage relationship were that neither spouse were to deny relations to the other.  This is the very opposite of the teaching of Ellen White.

Of course, sex is not a problem in this world at all.  Nor does it have anything to so with the lust of the flesh.  There is no such thing as over indulging.  Moderation only applies to other things.

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Jan 23, 2012 - 03:21:03 »
Quote
There are no Bible characters who were vegetarian or vegan!

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:21-23 (KJV)

I'm sure there have always been vegetarians.  Some prefer the original diet given to humanity.  It is healthier.  There are better reasons today to not eat meat, than ever before. 

Quote
The Biblical principles of the marriage relationship were that neither spouse were to deny relations to the other.  This is the very opposite of the teaching of Ellen White.

Of course, sex is not a problem in this world at all.  Nor does it have anything to so with the lust of the flesh.  There is no such thing as over indulging.  Moderation only applies to other things.

Of course food and sex are a huge problem in the world but it is the ' EXCESS/DEPRIVATION ' that is mainly causing it. MODERATION has never been man's forte because we ignore GOD's instructions.
All this will be corrected when Christ returns very soon now !!!

Offline dennistpm

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #17 on: Fri Jan 27, 2012 - 15:41:15 »
Quote
What scriptures say do not eat meat?

None.  The original, and no doubt most healthy diet given to humanity in the garden of Eden, contained no meat.  Modern science realizes also the ill effects of meat, and that it is not actually a necessary part of any diet.  As soon as anyone has a heart attack, they will likely be told by their doctor to cut way down on it, if not to give it up altogether.  I just watched a documentary on netfilx the other day called Forks over Knives, it was very informative.  You should check it out.

Hey, if eating meat was good enough for the Creator Himself, I think I'll just go ahead and keep chewing.

Genesis 18

 1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

 2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

 3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

 4Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

 5And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

 6And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.

 7And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

 8And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

Amo

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #18 on: Sat Jan 28, 2012 - 09:36:13 »
Quote
Hey, if eating meat was good enough for the Creator Himself, I think I'll just go ahead and keep chewing.

Genesis 18

 1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

 2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

 3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

 4Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

 5And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

 6And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.

 7And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

 8And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

I think we are in a little bit of a different situation than God, don't you?  We will all die, save those who are alive at Christ's second coming.  Nevertheless, the quality and length of the present life will certainly be effected by what we do or do not eat.  Most people wait until their doctor tells them to cut back or stop eating meat, which of course only happens after it's negative effects have taken quite a toll.

Today though, there are better reasons not to eat meat than ever before.  Mass production and corporate greed have made meat and many other foods just about unfit for human consumption.  At the very least one should look for organically grown fruits and vegies, and free range meat and dairy.  On top of all the other junk already added to our foods, we now have genetically modified foods to deal with.  I would encourage all to look into these matters.

Offline DaveW

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #19 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 14:47:43 »
Don't forget that God COMMANDED the priests and levites to eat all the sacrifices that were brought to the temple/tabernacle.

Offline Michael G

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #20 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 17:21:14 »
Don't forget that God COMMANDED the priests and levites to eat all the sacrifices that were brought to the temple/tabernacle.

Remember you still do not have that Temple in Israel to do that Dave ,  Jesus was the Lamb of God, he was the true bread that came down from heaven,

Jesus said you must be born again, to see the Spiritual things of God, Flesh do the mind of the Flesh.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 20:30:53 by Michael G »

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #21 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 20:55:36 »

God provides healthy eating instructions for all his children, God will provide the food necessary for all those with a sincere heart; We must all study about Gods word, he does have the proper eating instructions to live long and healthier life for him, why should I continue to live the way I use to after eating those unhealthy things, what good is there being an unhealthy Christian, when it could be prevented.

We are all brought up to be Missionaries, if we do things against the Body that others do, what good is it if we become Mission fields also. Besides eating Healthy we live better productive lives and that is proven in history as well as the bible History.

If we look at the age of Man after the flood when Man started to eat flesh the age of Mankind decreased rapidly. If we read about the Diet challenge in the Book of Daniel, we see 3 Hebrews who did not eat Babylon’s Diet and ate their own diet, they were healthier, their skin countenance brighter, when tested, they were recorded  ten times wiser than the Kings Wiseman who ate Food of Babylon.   
 
If we Study animals in history that eat vegetation opposed to Flesh, we see less aggressive Animals,

Let’s not be ignorant and foolish and judge either way, but ask our God for help in our diet so we can become better soldiers for God.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 21:04:43 by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #22 on: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 21:57:54 »
If we look at the age of Man after the flood when Man started to eat flesh the age of Mankind decreased rapidly.

in the beginning God gave this food for Man kind to eat
Gen 1:29  I have provided all kinds of GRAIN and all kinds of FRUIT for you to EAT;

after sin thier was still abundate Vegatation on the earth,  no indication Man needed to change its Diet to Flesh

Gen_5:5  and died at the age of 930.
Gen_5:8  and died at the age of 912.
Gen_5:11  and died at the age of 905.
Gen_5:14  and died at the age of 910.
Gen_5:17  and died at the age of 895.
Gen_5:20  and died at the age of 962.
Gen_5:27  and died at the age of 969.
Gen_5:31  and died at the age of 777.
Gen_7:21  Every living being on the earth died---every bird, every animal, and every person.

after the flood there was no Vegetation on the earth, Flesh was more abundant, Man started eating more and more Flesh.

Gen_11:28  and HARAN died in his hometown of Ur in BABYLONIA,
Gen_11:32  Terah died there at the age of 205.
Gen_25:7  Abraham died at age of 175.
Gen_25:17  Ishmael was 137 years old when he died.

If we read about the Diet challenge in the Book of Daniel, we see 3 Hebrews who did not eat Babylon’s Diet and ate their own diet, they were healthier, their skin countenance brighter, when tested, they were recorded  ten times wiser than the Kings Wiseman who ate Food of Babylon.  
 
Dan 1:12  

Daniel said the the King PROVE THY SERVANTS, I beseech thee, TEN DAYS; and let them give us Vegetables to eat, and water to drink
.
Dan 1:13  Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king's meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

Dan 1:14  So he consented to them in this matter, and PROVED them TEN DAYS.

Dan 1:15  And at the END of TEN DAYS “their
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 29, 2012 - 22:20:18 by Michael G »

Offline DaveW

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #23 on: Mon Jan 30, 2012 - 06:02:18 »
MG - there was clearly an environmental change that occured with the flood - since prior to that time there was never any rain and we NOW have rain. Donald W Patton in his book "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch" theorized a Venus style canopy around the Earth of water vapor that kept the entire globe in a tropical climate.  When that came crashing down at the flood/ice age, the nutritional content of the native plants changed to the point that we needed the additional protein from meat.  It also led to the decreasing lifespans that bottomed out with King David at 70 years.

Offline Michael G

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #24 on: Mon Jan 30, 2012 - 07:28:31 »
MG - there was clearly an environmental change that occured with the flood - since prior to that time there was never any rain and we NOW have rain. Donald W Patton in his book "The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch" theorized a Venus style canopy around the Earth of water vapor that kept the entire globe in a tropical climate.  When that came crashing down at the flood/ice age, the nutritional content of the native plants changed to the point that we needed the additional protein from meat.  It also led to the decreasing lifespans that bottomed out with King David at 70 years.

Cannot disagree with that info, that’s good science information, thank you, I will look it up to confirm, combined with the Biblical account of ages of the people given by God, that’s solid proof that man needs protein to survive and that Man did eat enough protein through plants foods such as lagoons and spinach and needed no Flesh before the flood and their ages where Ten times Higher, much like the Test of the 3 Hebrews in Daniel, they were ten times Wiser and had a more healthy skin than people who ate delicacy of foods .

 I think the key point is when changing your diet  from being a flesh eater to Vegetarian; you must eat plant type protein foods such as Lagoons and spinach to complete Gods diet in the bible with fruit with Grains. If you change from flesh to Vegetarian and don’t eat the protein Vegetarian foods also, your Skin covering and health would not be good, may as well eat the flesh for the protein.


The problem doctors are confronted with every day is telling patience to change their diet and exercise such as walk, but they are depressed with poor health and cannot think right and they end up not changing their diet. So the doctor ends up giving them pills and more pills to supplement their bad health problems. Science has proven if people would eat right, they would gain more energy to exercise, and they would take far less medication.

And another important point your doctor may or may not tell you, you should stay off the caffeine, it increases the heart rate, after you get your rush for the day, a few hours later you become more tired in the day and will end up exercising less.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 30, 2012 - 07:55:25 by Michael G »

Kaleel

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #25 on: Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 15:32:16 »
Nothing wrong with eating meat.  You had me at bacon.

Offline OldDad

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Re: What is so wrong with eating meat?
« Reply #26 on: Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 16:48:37 »
"He who is weak eats vegetables only." Romans 14:2