Author Topic: Kings of the earth  (Read 2785 times)

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Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #35 on: Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 21:28:57 »
https://www.ncronline.org/news/quick-reads/pope-pence-meet-vatican

All emphasis in the article below from link above is mine.

Pope, Pence meet at the Vatican

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Jan 24, 2020

VATICAN CITY — After Pope Francis and U.S. Vice President Mike Pence met privately for nearly an hour at the Vatican, Pence told the pope that his Roman Catholic mother will be pleased with the visit.

"Thank you, Your Holiness. You have made me a hero," said Pence, who was raised Catholic but became an evangelical Christian.

The vice president, along with his wife Karen and daughter-in-law Sarah, arrived 10 minutes early for the meeting with the pope Jan. 24. They were welcomed by Msgr. Leonardo Sapienza, regent of the papal household.

As the pope and Pence sat down in the papal library of the Apostolic Palace, the vice president relayed greetings from U.S. President Donald Trump, who met with the pope in 2017.

"I wanted to extend the warmest greeting on behalf of President Donald Trump who so enjoyed his visit here," Pence told the pope before reporters were ushered from the room.

After speaking with Pence for 59 minutes, with interpreters present, the pope greeted those accompanying the vice president on his visit, including Callista Gingrich, U.S. ambassador to the Holy See; her husband, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich; and Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, Pence's national security adviser.

Pence then presented the pope with a wooden cross "made from a tree at the vice president's residence."

"Every other vice president since Walter Mondale has lived" at the residence, he told the pope.

The pope then presented a medallion, describing it as "angel of peace" conquering "the demon of war."

Additionally, he gave Pence copies of several of his documents, which he jokingly called "a Vatican library." The documents included "The Joy of the Gospel" on evangelization, "Amoris Laetitia" on the family, and "Laudato Si,'" on the environment.

Francis also gave the vice president a copy of his message for World Peace Day 2020.

"Here, I prepared for you the message for peace," the pope said. "I signed it personally for you."

Neither the Vatican nor the vice president's office were expected to issue a statement on the issues discussed in their private meeting.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 21:31:43 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #36 on: Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 21:54:48 »
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2020/01/17/pope-francis-meets-congolese-president

All emphasis in article below from link above is mine.

Pope Francis meets with Congolese president

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January 17, 2020

Pope Francis received the president of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Félix Antoine Tshilombo Tshisekedi, in a private audience on Jan. 17 and discussed the current situation in this conflict-ridden, mineral-rich country and, in particular, the “persistent armed conflict and the spread of the Ebola virus” in the eastern provinces, the Vatican said in a statement.

The two spoke in the private library of the Vatican’s apostolic palace with the aid of a translator. Afterward, the president presented his wife, Denise Nyakéru Tshisekedi, and a high-level delegation to the pope. During an exchange of gifts, the president gave Pope Francis a painting from the North Kivu region, which is highly affected by the violence caused by militias fighting for control of its rich natural resources. The pope gave Mr. Tshisekedi an engraving of an angel of peace, as well as his message for this year’s World Day of Peace.

As the president bade the pope farewell, Mr. Tshisekedi invited him to visit the D.R.C. “I hope so,” Francis replied with a smile.

It was their second meeting. They met briefly in St. Peter’s Basilica last October when Pope Francis gave the cardinal’s red hat to Friedolin Ambongo Besungu, the archbishop of Kinshasa. Mr. Tshisekedi came for the consistory together with a high-level government delegation in recognition of the major contribution the Catholic Church has made in recent decades to the democratic process in this land of 87 million people, some 50 percent of whom are Catholic.

Earlier this week, before coming to the Vatican, the president had a private meeting with the Cardinal Ambongo in Kinshasa. The cardinal had just returned from North Kivu and told the president he had encountered a people “traumatized by conflict” and in urgent need of protection by the government. The president promised to counteract what he called “the negative forces” in the region.

After his meeting with Pope Francis, the president, accompanied by the country’s foreign minister, Marie Tumba Nzeza, and other government officials, held talks with Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, and Archbishop Paul Gallagher, the secretary for relations with states.

In a statement issued after the visit, the Vatican revealed that the pope and president discussed “the good existing bilateral relations” between the Holy See and the Democratic Republic of the Congo and expressed “satisfaction” at the ratification of the framework agreement between the two countries on matters of mutual interest.

Afterward, the president and Cardinal Parolin exchanged the instruments of ratification of the agreement that was signed on May 20, 2016. The agreement established the juridical framework for reciprocal relations between the two sides.

It recognized the freedom of the church in pastoral activity and, among other things, set out rules governing Catholic educational institutions, the teaching of religion in schools, the church’s charitable and assistance work, pastoral care in the armed forces, prisons and hospitals, the patrimonial and tax regime and the granting of visas for religious personnel to enter and work in the country.


The Vatican statement said the Congolese president, Pope Francis and the senior Vatican officials also spoke about “the contribution of the Catholic Church” to the democratic process in the country and in the promotion of “the common good and integral development of the nation, especially in the fields of education and health care.”

The Catholic Church has numerous schools and other educational institutes as well as hospitals and health care centers across the D.R.C., the second largest country in Africa—a quarter of the size of the United States.

In their respective conversations, the pope, the president and senior Vatican officials discussed “the country’s current situation, with particular reference to the sufferings of the population in the eastern provinces, due to persistent armed conflict and the spread of the Ebola virus.”

They also spoke about the urgent need for “collaboration and cooperation at national and international level, to protect human dignity and to promote civil coexistence, starting from the many refugees and displaced persons who are facing a grave humanitarian crisis.”

Mr. Tshisekedi took over as president in January 2019 from Joseph Kabila, who ruled for 18 years and delayed elections multiple times. It marked the first peaceful transfer of power in the D.R.C.’s history. But, according to the Council of Foreign Relations’ “Global Conflict Tracker,” the new president inherited a number of crises, including an Ebola outbreak in the east and ongoing violence across the country, particularly in the Ituri, Kasi and Kivu regions.

More than 100 armed groups are believed to operate in the eastern region of the D.R.C., where many rare minerals are found. Despite the presence of more than 16,000 U.N. peacekeepers, these groups continue to terrorize communities and control weakly governed areas. Millions of civilians have been forced to flee the fighting: The United Nations estimates there are currently four to five million displaced people in the D.R.C. and more than 800,000 refugees in other countries.

Over the past 20 years, the Democratic Republic of the Congo has been afflicted by what has been called the biggest conflict since World War II. It has involved armed groups from nine nations and many ethnic groups, within the borders of a land that is rich in rare minerals but with a poverty-stricken population. Over three million people have been killed, and human rights violations and rape have been rampant.

The World Health Organization reports that as of Jan. 12, 2020, there have been a total of 3,398 Ebola virus cases, including 2,235 fatalities. Of the total confirmed and probable cases, 56 percent were female, 28 percent were children aged less than 18 years, and 5 percent were health care workers.

While Pope Francis would be keen to visit and express his closeness to the suffering people of the D.R.C., he already has plans to go to South Sudan, and a second visit to Africa is unlikely in the same year.

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #37 on: Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 22:15:55 »
https://www.dailynews.com/2019/08/09/la-mayor-eric-garcetti-meets-with-pope-francis-at-the-vatican/

All emphasis in article below from link above is mine.

LA Mayor Eric Garcetti meets with Pope Francis at the Vatican

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Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti had a one-on-one meeting at the Vatican Friday with the leader of the Catholic Church, Pope Francis.

Garcetti’s office announced the private audience, and included photos of the mayor with the Pope with whom he talked climate change, youth, poverty and immigration.

Garcetti, who is Jewish, said he was “grateful to Pope Francis for the deep and humbling honor of meeting with me at the Vatican today.”

He said was moved by Francis’s “inspired words about matters that will shape the future of our world, and to have the chance to speak to him about our mutual work to save this planet and serve our fellow human beings.”

Pope Francis released an encyclical in 2015 calling for action on fighting climate change, and describing it as a moral duty.

Garcetti added that the Pope “shared greetings for the people of Los Angeles — and we are grateful for his grace, his prayers, and a message of faith, love, understanding, and cooperation that brings peace and comfort to people everywhere.”

According to a mayoral aide, Garcetti is traveling in Europe to attend meetings related to his participation on the C40 steering committee, which is made up of mayors from cities around the world working on the climate change issue.

The Pope and his lefty progressive minions will not save this planet. They will only bring about the global government or cooperation of governments guided by BABYLON THE GREAT, that will form the final beast of biblical prophecy and bring this present world to its end by the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. None will be saved but those saved in Christ alone. All other false claims of salvation for the inhabitants of this world are deception.

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #38 on: Sat Apr 11, 2020 - 12:34:56 »
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-china-idUSKCN1M20H7

Emphasis in article below quoted from link above is mine.

Quote
Vatican, China sign landmark accord on appointing bishops

VILNIUS (Reuters) - The Vatican on Saturday signed a landmark agreement giving it a long-desired say in the appointment of bishops in China, though critics labeled the deal a sellout to the Communist government.

The provisional agreement, signed in Beijing by deputy foreign ministers from both sides, was announced as Pope Francis visited Lithuania on a four-day trip to the Baltic countries.

It gives the Holy See a decisive role in the appointment of all bishops in a country whose around 12 million Catholics have been split between an underground Church swearing loyalty to the Vatican and the state-supervised Catholic Patriotic Association.

The Vatican said the accord, a breakthrough after years of negotiations, was “not political but pastoral”.

A Holy See statement did not mention Taiwan, which the Vatican recognizes diplomatically and which China sees as a renegade province.

However, diplomats have said the accord was a possible precursor to a resumption in diplomatic relations with Beijing after 70 years. Beijing does not allow countries to have diplomatic relations with both China and Taiwan.

Taiwan now has formal relations with only 17 states and the Vatican is the only one in Europe.


The Vatican said the pope hoped “a new process may begin that will allow the wounds of the past to be overcome, leading to the full communion of all Chinese Catholics”.

But prospects of such an agreement had divided communities of Catholics across China, some of whom fear greater suppression should the Vatican cede more control to Beijing. Others want to see rapprochement and avoid a potential schism.

“They’re giving the flock into the mouths of the wolves. It’s an incredible betrayal,” said Cardinal Joseph Zen, the feisty, 86-year-old former archbishop of Hong Kong who has led the opposition to the deal.

“The consequences will be tragic and long lasting, not only for the Church in China but for the whole Church because it damages the credibility. Maybe that’s why they might keep the agreement secret,” Zen told Reuters in an interview on Thursday.

Vatican sources have said the deal will not be published and can be reviewed and fine-tuned in the future.

READMITTED

The Vatican said that as part of the deal, Pope Francis had recognized the legitimacy of the seven remaining state-appointed Chinese bishops who had been named without papal approval and had re-admitted them into the Church.

“Today, for the first time all the bishops in China are in communion with the Bishop of Rome (the pope),” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican Secretary of State and one of the chief architects of the deal, said in a statement.

Vatican sources have said that a few bishops appointed by Rome will cede their places to bishops who had been appointed by Beijing.

In future, new bishops first will be proposed by members of local Catholic communities together with Chinese authorities. The names of candidates will be sent to the Vatican and the pope will make a final decision, the sources said.
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 11, 2020 - 12:46:09 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #39 on: Sat Apr 11, 2020 - 12:49:34 »
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/197322

Vatican Signs First Accord with 'Palestine'

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #39 on: Sat Apr 11, 2020 - 12:49:34 »



Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #40 on: Sat Apr 11, 2020 - 12:52:26 »
https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=43380

Vatican signs legal accord with Angola

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Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #41 on: Sun Nov 08, 2020 - 08:14:54 »
Having neglected this thread for a while now, seems a good time to revive it. Although there has been a great deal in recent history which has not been brought to this thread neglected as it has been, I think it appropriate at this time to review some testimonies from history regarding Babylon the great. Who people of the past thought she was, why they did, and what they thought she caused. Now that it is likely that all three branches of our government are heavily influenced by her in that Biden is a professed citizen of her nation, who does not hide his intentions to bring about her social doctrines within ours, these testimonies have become all the more pertinent. The next several posts will be historical quotes regarding her.

Quote
HILARY OF POITIERS  (300-368)

   “ He [Hilary] begins by speaking the blessings of peace, which the Christians of that day could neither enjoy nor promote, beset as they were by the forerunners of Antichrist…….. They bear themselves not as bishops of Christ but as priests of Antichrist. This is not random abuse, but sober recognition of the fact, stated by St. John, that there are many Antichrists. For these men assume the cloak of piety, and pretend to preach the Gospel, with the one object of inducing others to deny Christ. It was the misery and folly of the day that men endeavoured  to promote the cause of God by human means and the favor of the world. Hilary asks bishops, who believe in their office, wether the Apostles had secular support when by their preaching they converted the greater part of mankind……
    “ The church seeks for secular support, and in so doing insults Christ by the implication that His support is insufficient. She in her turn holds out the threat of exile and prison. It was her endurance of these that drew men to her; now she imposes her faith by violence. She craves for favors at the hand of her communicants; once it was her consecration that she braved the threatening of persecutors. Bishops in exile spread the faith; now it is she that exiles bishops. She boasts that the world loves her; the worlds hatred was the evidence that she was Christ’s……. The time of Antichrist, disguised as an angel of light, has come. The true Christ is hidden from almost every mind and heart. Antichrist is now obscuring the truth that he may assert falsehood hereafter.” (E. W. Watson, Introduction to Hilary of Poitiers, in NPNF, 2d series, vol. 9, pp. lii, liii.) Vol. 1, p. 409.

Early on, the difference between the Babylonian system of Antichrist and authentic Christianity was identified and revealed. The true church spread the gospel under persecution from the governments and peoples of this world which rejected the same. The false Babylonian church sought and obtained the favor of the governments and peoples of this world which rejected Jesus Christ by confession or in actions. They then began persecuting the true followers of Christ, and all others who would not submit to their usurped authority. This condition was brought about and is always maintained by obscuring the truth. No one who keeps up with the papacy and her Encyclicals or Doctrinal Notes, can deny that she has been increasingly heavily involved in the same over the last few decades. She is calling all the world governments and religions together under her banner.

The process described in the above quote under examination has been repeating itself again over the last couple of centuries on a global scale as BABYLON THE GREAT, the Church of Rome has been recovering from the deadly wound she received in 1798. At that time a very large number of the peoples and governments of this world rejected her ever abusive authority. One of the last strong holds in the world established against her religion-politcal vision, these United States of America, is now crumbling under her ever increasing influence and obfuscation of truth. Mass migrations of her adherents into our nation have aided this agenda, and slowly reduced resistance to her ever intrusive manipulations of societies and governments. Ignorance and division are her tools of success. Now her adherents dominate the control of our political system, and the final events of dissolution will be rapid ones. All as the holy scriptures have predicted. Come Lord Jesus.   


« Last Edit: Sun Nov 08, 2020 - 08:21:14 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #42 on: Sun Nov 08, 2020 - 08:35:13 »
Emphasis in following quote is mine.

Quote
EBERHARD II, archbishop of Salzburg (1200-1246)

    “ Under the title of Pontifex Maximus, we discern, unless we are blind, a most savage wolf, with the garment of a shepherd; the Roman priests [flamines] have arms against all Christians; made great by daring, by deceiving, by bringing wars after wars, they slaughter the sheep, they cut them off, they drive away peace and harmony from the earth, they stir up internal wars, domestic insurrections from below, day by day they weaken more and more the energies of all, so that they revile the heads of all, they devour all, they reduce all to slavery.”  (Translated from Ioannes Aventinus, Annales Boiorum Libri Septem, p. 683.) Vol. 1 chap. 32 p. 799

The quote speaks for itself. Rome's involvement in many of the wars of the last couple of centuries is not hidden. Her support of the Nazi party early on, Facsists as well, socialists and communists today is not hidden from any seeking truth. She has played no small part in the ever increasingly divisive nature between the peoples of our nation, and has called for protests to help bring about radical societal change in our nation. She is up to the same vileness she ever produces as her power and influence increase within any society.

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #43 on: Sun Nov 08, 2020 - 15:32:36 »
Quote
FRANCESCO PETRARCH, Poet (1304-1374) Concerning the church of Rome.

HE INVEIGHS AGAINST THE COURT OF ROME

Vengeaunce must fall on thee, thow filthie whore
Of Babilon, thow breaker of Christ's fold,
That from achorns, and from the water colde,
Art riche become with making many poore.
Thow treason's neste that in thie harte dost holde
Of cankard malice, and of myschief more
Than pen can wryte, or may with tongue be tolde,
Slave to delights that chastitie hath solde;
For wyne and ease which settith all thie store
Uppon whoredome and none other lore,
In thye pallais of strompetts yonge and olde
Theare walks Plentie, and Belzebub thye Lorde:
Guydes thee and them, and doth thye raigne upholde:
It is but late, as wryting will recorde,
That poore thow weart withouten lande or goolde;
Yet now hathe golde and pryde, by one accorde,
In wickednesse so spreadd thie lyf abrode,
That it dothe stincke before the face of God.
( Francesco Petrarch, Sonnet CV, translated by Wyatt  (?), in The Sonnets, Triumphs, and Other Poems of Petrarch, pp. 135, 136.)


    “ Thou Babylon, seated on the wild banks of the Rhone, shall I call thee famous or infamous, O harlot, who hast committed harlotry with the kings of the earth? Truly thou art the same that the holy Evangelist saw in spirit, the same, I say, and not another, sitting upon many waters. Either literally, being surrounded by three rivers, or, in the profusion of this world’s goods, among which thou sittest wanton and secure, unmindful of eternal riches; or, in the sense laid down by him that beheld thee, that the waters on which you the harlot sit are peoples and nations and languages. Recognize thine own features. A women clothed in purple and scarlet, decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of abomination in the impurity of her fornication-Dost thou not know thyself, O Babylon? Unless perhaps what is written upon her forehead is wrong, Babylon the great, you indeed are Babylon the little.” ( Translated from Petrarch, Epistolarum Sine Titulo, Liber, letter headed Babylonem Gallicam Describit, in Opera, vol. 2, p. 807. )

Yes, history is repeating itself. We still have the testimony of those who lived through Babylon's first mounting of a biblical beast in the Holy Roman Empire of the dark ages. She became rich and powerful at that time also, by draining the wealth and power away from the peoples of nations and their leaders into her own swamp. Wreaking havoc among the same and creating the very conditions of poverty she cloaks herself in pretending to alleviate. The condition of the poor's dependence upon her, is exactly the position she intends for all the world. First she creates and demands their spiritual dependents upon her, then their political, then their livelihoods, and then life itself. Nevertheless, all who trust in the same will perish. Christ alone offers and actually can supply the salvation she pretends to have. Come out of the kingdom of Babylon, and into the kingdom of Christ.

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #44 on: Mon Nov 09, 2020 - 22:50:16 »
Quote
WALTER BRUTE  fourteenth-century British or Welsh layman and Lollard scholar.

    “ Item, The said Walter hath oftentimes said, and commonly avouched, that the Pope is Antichrist, and a seducer of the people, and utterly against the Law and life of Christ,” (“Proceedings in the trial of Walter Brut for Heresy, Etc.,” original Latin in Registrum Johannis Trefnant, Episcopi Herefordensis, p. 279; translated in Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 543.)

    “ If the high Bishop of Rome calling himself the Servant of the Servants of God, and the Chief Vicar of Christ in this World, do make and maintain many laws contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ; then is he of those that have come in Christ’s name, saying, I am Christ, and have seduced many a one, by the Testimony of our Savior in Math. Chap. 24. And the Idol of desolation sitting in the Temple of God and taking away from him the continual sacrifice for a time, times, and half a time, which Idol must be revealed to the Christian people by the testimony of Daniel. Whereof Christ speaketh in the Gospel; When ye shall see the abomination of desolation that was told of by Daniel the Prophet, standing in the holy place; let him that readeth understand.” (Registrum, p.287; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 545.)

    “ And sitting in the Temple of God, doth advance himself above all things that is called God, or whatsoever is worshipped, by the testimony of Paul to the Thess. 2 Epistle, Chap. 2. And in the defection or falling away shall the man of sin be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth….He is also besides, The Beast ascending up out of the earth, having two horns like unto a Lamb, but he speaketh like a Dragon, and as the cruel Beast ascending up out of the Sea, whose Power shall continue 42 months. He worketh the things that he hath given to the Image of the Beast. And he compelled Small and Great, Rich and Poor, Free-men and Bond-slaves, to worship the beast, and to take his mark in their Forehead or their Hands, Apoc. Chap. 13. And thus by the testimony of all these places is the chief Antichrist upon the Earth, and must be slain with the sword of God’s Word, and cast with the Dragon, the cruel Beast and the false prophet that hath seduced the Earth, into the lake of fire and brimstone to be tormented world without end.” (Registrum, p. 288; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, pp. 545, 546.)

    “ If the city of Rome do allow his Traditions, and do disallow Christ’s holy Commandments, and Christ’s Doctrine, that it may confirm his Traditions; then is she Babylon the Great, or the Daughter of Babylon, and the Great Whore sitting upon many waters, with whom the Kings of the Earth have committed Fornication, and the Inhabitants of the earth are become drunken with the Wine of her Harlotry lying open to Bawdry. With whose spiritual Whoredom, Enchantments, Witchcrafts, and Simon Magus Merchandises, the whole round world is infected and seduced; saying in her heart, I sit as a Queen, and Widow I am not, neither shall I see Sorrow and mourning. Yet is she ignorant that within a little while shall come the day of her destruction and ruine by the Testimony of the Apoc. Chap. 17. Because that from the time of the continual Sacrifice was taken away, and that abomination of Desolation placed, there be passed 1290 days, by the Testimony of Daniel [chap. Xii.], and the Chronicles added to agree to the same. And the holy City also hath been trodden under foot of the Heathen, for forty two months, and the Woman was nourished up in the Wilderness (unto which she fled for fear of the face of the Serpent) during 1260 days, or else for a time, times, and half a time, which is all one. All these things be manifest by the Testimony of the Apocalyps, and the Chronicles thereto agreeing.” (Registrum, p. 288; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 546.)


POPES ARE ANTICHRIST BECAUSE THEY ARE PRIEST-KINGS.-
    “ Seeing then that the Bishops of Rome do say that they are the High Priests; they say also therein that they are Kings, because they say that they have the Scriptural Sword pertaining to their Priesthood, and the corporal Sword which agreeth for a Kings State. So is it plain, that really and in very deed, they say, That they are Christs, albeit that expressly they be not called Christs. Now that they come in the name of Christ it is manifest, because they say that they are his principal Vicars in this World, ordained of Christ specially for the Government of the Christian Church. Therefore, seeing they say, that really and in very deed they are Christs, and the chief friends of Christ: If they make and justifie many Laws contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then it is plain that they themselves in earth are the principal Antichrists, because there is no worse plague and pestilence, than a familiar enemy. And if in secret they be against Christ, and yet in open appearance they say that they are his friends, they are so much more the meet to seduce and deceive the Christian people.” (Registrum, pp. 300, 301; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 550.)

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #45 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 15:38:15 »
https://www.cnn.com/videos/sports/2020/11/24/pope-francis-nba-players-social-injustice-kyle-korver-george-floyd-spt-intl-lon-orig.cnn

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Pope Francis meets with NBA players to discuss social issues

Five NBA players met with Pope Francis to discuss social injustice and inequality on November 23, including Marco Belinelli, Kyle Korver and Anthony Tolliver. The meeting comes in a year filled with awareness around social injustice.

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #46 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 15:46:11 »
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/joe-biden-speaks-with-pope-francis.html

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Biden speaks with Pope Francis, the latest world leader to acknowledge the new president-elect

WASHINGTON — President-elect Joe Biden spoke with Pope Francis on Thursday, adding to the list of world leaders who have acknowledged the incoming administration.

According to a readout of the call, Biden thanked the pope for his “blessings and congratulations.”

“The president-elect expressed his desire to work together on the basis of a shared belief in the dignity and equality of all humankind on issues such as caring for the marginalized and the poor, addressing the crisis of climate change, and welcoming and integrating immigrants and refugees into our communities,” the readout added.

Biden will become the second Roman Catholic president, 60 years after Democrat John F. Kennedy became the first member of the faith to hold the office.

The call between Biden and Francis comes as President Donald Trump challenges the integrity of the presidential election with a series of legal actions across battleground states. Legal experts have called the challenges meritless. Trump has not conceded the election Biden, who on Saturday cleared the 270-electoral vote threshold needed to win the presidency.

In September, the Holy See denied Secretary Mike Pompeo an audience with Pope Francis. The Vatican accused Pompeo, who was traveling on a diplomatic mission, of using the meeting to attract voters ahead of the election. The Trump administration has had multiple diplomatic rows with the Vatican and has called on the pontiff to take a harder line on China.

On Tuesday, Pompeo refused to acknowledge Biden’s victory and gave little insight about what he has told diplomats around the world about the transition process. Other top Trump administration officials, such as Vice President Mike Pence, have publicly insisted that the election is not over despite Biden’s victory.

Prime Ministers Boris Johnson of the United Kingdom, Scott Morrison of Australia and Yoshihide Suga of Japan have also spoken to Biden, as have South Korean President Moon Jae-in, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven, New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and French President Emmanuel Macron.

Throughout his political career, Biden has been proud of his Catholicism................................. ...


Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #47 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 15:52:06 »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8978461/NBAs-social-justice-coalition-meets-Pope-Francis-Vatican.html

Quote
Five NBA players meet with Pope Francis at the Vatican to discuss equality issues and the league's new social justice coalition

Pope Francis met with five members of the NBA's new National Basketball Social Justice Coalition at the Vatican on Monday to discuss issues related to equality

The players included Marco Belinelli, Sterling Brown, Jonathan Isaac, Kyle Korver, and Anthony Tolliver, as well as union executive director Michele Roberts

In a new book, Pope Francis supports demands for racial justice - specifically the actions taken following the Minneapolis police killing of George Floyd last May

Most players protested racism by kneeling during the national anthem during the NBA season restart, but Isaac opted to stand and refused to wear a BLM shirt

All players and NBPA staff were tested for COVID before meeting Pope Francis

............................................ ........

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #48 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 15:59:07 »
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/10/24/pope-francis-meets-with-spains-prime-minister-pedro-sanchez/

Quote
Pope Francis meets with Spain’s Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez

Vatican City, Oct 24, 2020 / 07:00 am (CNA).- Pope Francis met with Spain’s Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez at the Vatican Saturday.

The Vatican said Oct. 24 that the pope received the Socialist leader in a private audience for approximately 35 minutes at the Apostolic Palace....................................


Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #49 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 16:01:50 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juo2FHEYDSg

Pope Francis Meets With Japanese Emperor Naruhito

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #50 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 16:06:53 »
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-11-06-uhuru-meets-pope-francis-as-he-kicks-off-his-vatican-visit/

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Uhuru meets Pope Francis as he kicks off his Vatican visit

• The president was accorded a full Apostolic Palace State reception including a guard of honour mounted by the Swiss Guards upon his arrival at the official Papal residence.

• The president, who is in Rome at the invitation of Pope Francis, is making history as the first Kenyan Head of State to visit the Vatican..............................

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #51 on: Thu Nov 26, 2020 - 16:37:23 »
Quote
JOHN HUSS, OR HUS ( 1369-1415)  “I beseech you in Christ Jesus, with all your fellow members of the University, to be prepared for a battle; for the reconnoiters of Antichrist have already begun, and the fight will soon follow. The Goose also must needs flap his wings against the wings of Behemoth, and against his tail, which always conceals the abomination of the beast Antichrist……. The Lord shall destroy the head and the tail- that is, the Pope and his prophets, masters, doctors, priests, who under the false pretext of sanctity conceal the abomination of the beast. Pray, what greater abomination can their be than a harlot who should parade herself and offer herself publicly? Yes, there is still greater abomination of the beast sitting in a place of honour and offering himself for worship to all comers, as though he were God: ready to sell whatever a man may wish to buy in matters spiritual. Yea, he sells what he does not possess. Woe be to me, then, if I shall not preach, weep, and write against such an abomination!” (The Letters of John Hus, edited by Herbert B. Workman and R. Martin Pope, Letter XXVI, pp. 118, 119.)

    “ Surely now the wickedness, iniquity, and baseness of Antichrist has been revealed in the Pope and his associates in the Council: now the faithful servants of God can understand the meaning of the Saviour’s words, When ye shall see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet,….he that readeth, let him understand. Verily ‘a great abomination’ is pride, avarice, and simony: ‘in a place apart’- that is,dignity which lacks modesty, love, and other virtues; and this is whatwe clearly mark in those who win office and dignity. Would that I were allowed to point out their wickedness, in order that the faithful servants of God might beware of them! Gladly would I do so; but I am trusting that God will raise up others after me, braver men than there are to-day, who shall better reveal the wickedness of Antichrist and lay down their lives for the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, who will grant eternal joy both to you and to me. Amen. I write this letter in prison, on the day of St. John Baptist, as I lie bound in chains, remembering that St. John also was beheaded in prison for the sake of God’s truth.” (Ibid., p. 258.)

Offline SherryLB

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #52 on: Fri Nov 27, 2020 - 04:39:41 »
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication................................. ...........
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies........
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Amo, while I appreciate your zeal of God, I must disagree with your understanding of "Mystery Babylon"~Mystery Babylon is "NOT" limited to just the RCC, but ALL false religions in fellowship with the beast being the Antichrist kingdom's of this world, just before the coming of Jesus Christ. 

While all of the godly reformers limited to RCC/EOC they were not faced with the many false cults that have risen since then!  Example would help here.

Example #1~The MANY false cults supporting President Trump (the MAIN KING of the earth) the likes of Paula White, etc. is a fulfillment of Revelation 17 as much as any Pope has fulfilled those scriptures.  She is his PERSONAL prophet the one he takes spiritual advice from~if you can believe that!

Example #2~Billy Graham had a free pass to every ear of the presidents since 1952 to his death just three years ago, or so.

Example #3~Rich Warren spoke at Obama's first inauguration.

The list is endless. 

 

 

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #53 on: Fri Nov 27, 2020 - 09:39:38 »
Amo, while I appreciate your zeal of God, I must disagree with your understanding of "Mystery Babylon"~Mystery Babylon is "NOT" limited to just the RCC, but ALL false religions in fellowship with the beast being the Antichrist kingdom's of this world, just before the coming of Jesus Christ. 

While all of the godly reformers limited to RCC/EOC they were not faced with the many false cults that have risen since then!  Example would help here.

Example #1~The MANY false cults supporting President Trump (the MAIN KING of the earth) the likes of Paula White, etc. is a fulfillment of Revelation 17 as much as any Pope has fulfilled those scriptures.  She is his PERSONAL prophet the one he takes spiritual advice from~if you can believe that!

Example #2~Billy Graham had a free pass to every ear of the presidents since 1952 to his death just three years ago, or so.

Example #3~Rich Warren spoke at Obama's first inauguration.

The list is endless. 

You are correct, Babylon basically consists of all the worlds false religions, philosophies, sciences, politics , and what have you. The Roman church is the leader of Babylon in that she is the one most actively gathering all of these worldly forces together in defiance of God's word. She is the mother of harlots, but many harlots there be. Her vision of the unification of humanity is in direct contradiction to the will of God who destroyed the tower of Babel and divided humanity exactly to prevent universal apostasy once again, unto the destruction of the world once again. The realization of her goals, are the end of this world at the personal return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They represent a universal defiance of God and His word, which will result in the persecution of the only people left who will not fit into their global society. Which will be of course, any and all who submit to the word of God above all other usurped authority.

She does not call people to prepare to meet their God face to face unto salvation though Christ alone. She calls together the powers that be of this world to save itself from the crisis of her own creation in the non stop fear mongering politics she now preaches and employs unto said desired end. Which is the subjugation of humanity to her ever preached and exalted common good, which is nothing but a cloak to cover the leadership of the evil one himself, who gives her her seat and authority. This thread, and the others addressing her, are addressing her  non stop activity and political maneuvers in establishing the same.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #54 on: Fri Nov 27, 2020 - 10:18:41 »
Amo, neither you nor SherryLB are even considering scripture’s own definition of what the “kings of the earth” are supposed to be.  It is not the governing powers over modern day nations.  The “kings of the earth” were the HIGH PRIESTS OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL, according to Jesus in the context of Matthew 17:24-27.

You can’t just substitute your own definition of what these “kings of the earth” are without ruining the whole intent of scripture’s meaning on this subject.  You are both way off in left field.

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #55 on: Fri Nov 27, 2020 - 20:57:42 »
Amo, neither you nor SherryLB are even considering scripture’s own definition of what the “kings of the earth” are supposed to be.  It is not the governing powers over modern day nations.  The “kings of the earth” were the HIGH PRIESTS OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL, according to Jesus in the context of Matthew 17:24-27.

You can’t just substitute your own definition of what these “kings of the earth” are without ruining the whole intent of scripture’s meaning on this subject.  You are both way off in left field.

Are you actually trying to say that the context of Matthew 17 and that of the book of revelation concerning Babylon the great are the same? Surely not, are you? Even the reference to the kings of this earth in Matthew 17 is not just concerning the High Priests of Israel in any manner other than the fact that Jesus was addressing temple taxes. He rightly identified the temple and high Priest of his day with the kings of this earth, for they were certainly not God's true authority on earth in His day. Jesus Christ was the real King of the Jews during His day which the vast majority of them including the High Priest of Israel and many others as well rejected. Which is why our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ told them that their house was left unto them desolate, because God had already abandoned it. Nor was their leadership any longer connected to God's but rather very much of this world.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The kingdom of God, and the authority of the High Priest, and the temple itself were taken away from literal Israel and given to another nation which alone could produce the fruits thereof. The kingdom of Christ whose citizens are all and only the born again. They alone can or will produce the fruits thereof, which is the righteousness of Christ our Lord and Savior. Christ is now the High Priest of all new covenant believers who ever liveth to make intercession for them in the temple in heaven made without hands. Who also seeks to make them living temples through which the gospel of Jesus Christ is to continue to be given to this world until the end. The kings of the earth we are discussing of the book of Revelation, and the kings of the earth Christ was referring to in the book of Matthew, are just that. They are the kings or powers that be of this world in defiance of God's authority established in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Jesus was not referring to the literal Priests of the literal Temple of literal Israel in the book of Revelation, whom He Himself predicted would no longer be, even while here as one of us. He knew very well that He Himself was about to replace the faulty ministry of the sinful High Priests of the old covenant who only typified Himself, the spotless Lamb of God who would not only sacrifice His own life for our sins, but also take over the position of the true High Priest who alone can atone for anyone's sins.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens. 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Now who is this Babylon the great who commits fornication with the kings of this earth, but the institution and leader who is verily the man of sin who set himself up in the temple of God as though he was God, trying to make himself the High Priest in place of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through the powers that be of the  kings and rulers of this world. Who established a false High Priest in himself, and a false priesthood under him unto which he calls all to confess their sins to be forgiven or absolved of the same in the place of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who alone can do such. Who calls his own to seek the intercession of God and Christ through prayer to the dead on their behalf as an absolute affront to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave His life that all might have direct access to the throne of God through His intercession alone. Whom himself along with his priests holds the golden cup full of the abominations of this earth in defiance of God, declaring themselves to create the literal flesh and blood of God the Son Himself in every mass unto a continual ongoing sacrifice for humanity. All of this and much much more in defiance of God's word and therefore authority.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Christ no longer needs to die for our sins in some kind of pagan unbloody sacrifice. He died once for all unto salvation from sin. We need to die in Christ by conformity to His word. The blasphemous use of the golden cup in the continual sacrifice of Christ for our sins, created supposedly by sinful human beings, is a counterfeit gospel demanding the continual death of God as the evil one himself desires, rather than the continual death of the sinner in Christ by faith unto being born again as a new creature in Christ Jesus. The gospel of Jesus Christ does not entail the continual sacrifice and death of God the Son, it entails our continual death and renewal in Him by faith in His life and sacrifice once and for all, not our own.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Jesus Christ already sacrificed His living, holy, pure, and undefiled body for our sins once and for all. Only a false gospel calls upon His continual death and a continual sacrifice of God that the sinner may be sustained. The true gospel calls for the willing sacrifice of the sinner by faith in Christ Jesus, unto a new creature of Christ Jesus. Who calls for the continual fresh sacrifice of Christ, but those who reject His gospel and wish to remain in sin.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You are simply wrong 3 Resurrections. Babylon the great is that institution which has once already set itself up in the place and temple of God as the greatest counterfeit to Christ's gospel, through the powers that be of the emperors, kings, rulers, and politicians of this world in defiance of God through His Son Jesus Christ. Whom now seeks to ride another global beast composed of all the powers of this world unified under her banner in defiance of God and His Son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Who is verily the King of kings, and Lord of lords. Who will destroy Babylon at His appearing and deliver all those who would not bow to the beast she ever increasingly rides, but to Christ alone. Her first beast of burden received a mortal wound, but that wound is healing and she will yet again ride a final global beast of biblical prophecy aided by all the powers that be of this world and all who submit to them. God be praised as all unfolds according to His prophetic word.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 06, 2020 - 09:45:42 by Amo »

Offline RB

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #56 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 04:44:36 »
You are correct, Babylon basically consists of all the worlds false religions, philosophies, sciences, politics , and what have you. The Roman church is the leader of Babylon in that she is the one most actively gathering all of these worldly forces together in defiance of God's word.
Greetings Amo, I was using my wife's computer yesterday while in Atlanta, I'm back in the saddle in my office where I feel much more comfortable.

Yes, we agree that RCC is the biggest whore dwelling in Mystery Babylon. In Mystery Babylon, you have its religion just as this world does, and separate from its religion, you have Mystery Babylon's philosophies, sciences, politics, and above all its entertainment, which is one of its many gods.
Quote from:  3 Resurrections on: Yesterday at 10:18:41
Amo, neither you nor SherryLB are even considering scripture’s own definition of what the “kings of the earth” are supposed to be.
Wrong, as you are on most of your eschatology from whence you have fallen from the truth you once embraced, I can say that knowing what you once held to. I can understand someone improving on their understanding, but after many years of believing in a system that was overall sound then make an abrupt change is hard to fathom.

I start with the TRUE BIBLICAL meaning of Mystery Babylon and from thence allow the scriptures to bring together the spiritual puzzle of Biblical Eschatology and it will if we do not force our bias opinions and doctrine into them.

Let me read more of what is posted and I may post more later since I just got in and have not had the chance of catching up.   

All three of us live within fifty miles from each other, ( Amo do you still live around Campobello? 3 Resurrection in Greenville~and I'm in Easley )  why not get together and speak face to face concerning these points.     
« Last Edit: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 07:51:16 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #57 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 08:02:55 »
LOL, RB, if you think my former eschatology views were “overall sound” when I once was following the usual premil. disp. teaching, you must be kidding.  For me to leave that behind, I would certainly not describe it as “falling from the truth I once embraced”.  The truth is that God delivered me from a slavish fear to that man-made system fabricated from a total misunderstanding of scripture.  I thank Him on my knees for such mercy given to me.

The “true BIBLICAL MEANING” of Mystery Babylon has already been handed to you by the angelic interpreter in Rev. 17:18.   It’s defined as an actual “CITY”, not an “institution” or a world-wide system as Amo and you are mistakenly substituting your own definitions for it.

“That GREAT CITY” of Rev. 17:18 that was BACK THEN IN JOHN’S DAYS presently ruling over the “kings of the earth” was the same as “the GREAT CITY where our Lord was crucified” in Rev. 11:8.  No other city than FIRST-CENTURY JERUSALEM qualifies for this definition given by the angelic interpreter of John’s visions.  You guys may wish to broaden and extend the definition to include other things, but this is adding your own thoughts and interpretations to the scripture.  Confusion is the result.

Amo, you’ve got a river of commentary going on above that wanders all over the place except the main point.  None of what you wrote disproves that scripture in Matt. 17:25 identifies the “kings of the earth” as being the high priests of the land of Israel - the very same as those “kings of the earth” that are later identified in Rev. 17:18.

Amo, I know you would like to link these “kings of the earth” with being the same as the “kings of the whole world”, but these are separate and distinct categories from one another, as found in Rev. 16:14.  You remember, those “spirits of devils” were going to go out and deceive not only the “kings of the earth” (tes ges - the high priests of the land of Israel), but ALSO the kings of “the whole world” (tes oikoumenes holes - which would be the governing powers over the nations of the world at large). 

These are two DIFFERENT sets of “kings” being distinguished from each other.  You can’t lump them together, because scripture doesn’t do that.  And we no longer have any high priests of Israel wandering around, which limits the date of Revelation’s composition to a time period when there were still nominal high priests around attempting to perpetuate the outdated temple system (in other words, Revelation was written before their temple and its priesthood was crushed to non-existence in AD 70).

As you acknowledge, Amo, that temple and its priesthood system were rendered defunct and obsolete by Christ becoming the final and ultimate “King of kings” (the “Great high priest” over all former high priests) at His ascension on His resurrection day.  But the rebellious Jews apparently needed an obvious physical crushing of that defunct system in AD 70, just to give a powerful visual demonstration that there was no going back to it ever again.  Humanity is notoriously hard-headed.

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #58 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 13:16:32 »
LOL, RB, if you think my former eschatology views were “overall sound” when I once was following the usual premil. disp. teaching, you must be kidding.  For me to leave that behind, I would certainly not describe it as “falling from the truth I once embraced”.  The truth is that God delivered me from a slavish fear to that man-made system fabricated from a total misunderstanding of scripture.  I thank Him on my knees for such mercy given to me.
I was speaking of the time you left Pre-mill ( so you said then ) and embraces A-mill when I first met you 34 years ago~what you believe before then I had no clue other than what you said here and then when I first met you.......and after I last saw you around twenty-seven years ago, I knew what you then embraced~ THAT'S THE PERIOD I was speaking of!

You should be thankful for God delivering you from pre-mill~ so was I delivered about ten years BEFORE I ever met you and the gang at TGC.
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 04:43:27 by RB »

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #59 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 15:07:15 »
LOL, RB, if you think my former eschatology views were “overall sound” when I once was following the usual premil. disp. teaching, you must be kidding.  For me to leave that behind, I would certainly not describe it as “falling from the truth I once embraced”.  The truth is that God delivered me from a slavish fear to that man-made system fabricated from a total misunderstanding of scripture.  I thank Him on my knees for such mercy given to me.

The “true BIBLICAL MEANING” of Mystery Babylon has already been handed to you by the angelic interpreter in Rev. 17:18.   It’s defined as an actual “CITY”, not an “institution” or a world-wide system as Amo and you are mistakenly substituting your own definitions for it.

“That GREAT CITY” of Rev. 17:18 that was BACK THEN IN JOHN’S DAYS presently ruling over the “kings of the earth” was the same as “the GREAT CITY where our Lord was crucified” in Rev. 11:8.  No other city than FIRST-CENTURY JERUSALEM qualifies for this definition given by the angelic interpreter of John’s visions.  You guys may wish to broaden and extend the definition to include other things, but this is adding your own thoughts and interpretations to the scripture.  Confusion is the result.

Amo, you’ve got a river of commentary going on above that wanders all over the place except the main point.  None of what you wrote disproves that scripture in Matt. 17:25 identifies the “kings of the earth” as being the high priests of the land of Israel - the very same as those “kings of the earth” that are later identified in Rev. 17:18.

Amo, I know you would like to link these “kings of the earth” with being the same as the “kings of the whole world”, but these are separate and distinct categories from one another, as found in Rev. 16:14.  You remember, those “spirits of devils” were going to go out and deceive not only the “kings of the earth” (tes ges - the high priests of the land of Israel), but ALSO the kings of “the whole world” (tes oikoumenes holes - which would be the governing powers over the nations of the world at large). 

These are two DIFFERENT sets of “kings” being distinguished from each other.  You can’t lump them together, because scripture doesn’t do that.  And we no longer have any high priests of Israel wandering around, which limits the date of Revelation’s composition to a time period when there were still nominal high priests around attempting to perpetuate the outdated temple system (in other words, Revelation was written before their temple and its priesthood was crushed to non-existence in AD 70).

As you acknowledge, Amo, that temple and its priesthood system were rendered defunct and obsolete by Christ becoming the final and ultimate “King of kings” (the “Great high priest” over all former high priests) at His ascension on His resurrection day.  But the rebellious Jews apparently needed an obvious physical crushing of that defunct system in AD 70, just to give a powerful visual demonstration that there was no going back to it ever again.  Humanity is notoriously hard-headed.

Let me state this in politically correct terminology, you have been mislead. You should stop interpreting scripture according to the narrow minded parameters of your or someone else's preconceived ideas which you have submitted to. The new covenant gospel of Jesus Christ is universal and global in nature. It is no longer confined to literal Israel and her enemies, but calling all of this world out Babylon to become citizens of Christs spiritual kingdom here and now in preparation to become literal citizens of God's New Jerusalem in the new heaven and new earth. Which will be created after the fall and end of Babylon(the kings, peoples, merchants, musicians and entertainers of this world in defiance of God delineated in Rev 18). The New Jerusalem and Babylon the great are the two diametrically apposed cities of a universal or global nature, depicted in the book of Revelation. One built by God in Christ Jesus our Lord, and the other built by fallen humanity in defiance of God who separated them at the tower of Babel to prevent universal apostasy until the appointed time. When all the world would unite again under the banner of that great spiritual city, Babylon, unto perdition.

Your assertion that the city referred to in Rev 11:8 can only be referring to literal Jerusalem and cannot have any spiritual application otherwise, is refuted by Rev 11:8 itself and other scriptures themselves addressing this city and event exactly.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Heb 11:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.


Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was crucified outside of Jerusalem according to ceremonial law. So the city where our Lord was crucified in Rev 11:8 cannot be Jerusalem. The author of Hebrews himself made reference to the New Jerusalem and city of God in the verses above which His faithful have always desired to be citizens of. Your denial of the spiritual cities or kingdoms depicted in the book of Revelation is a denial of many other scriptural references to the same.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Apart from the above mistake you make, your whole argument hangs upon the completely faulty premise of kings of this earth referring only to priests of literal Israel and therefore tied down to that history as well. This is most obviously not the intention of scripture, it is your misguided take based upon one incident where Christ included the Priests of literal Israel among the other kings of this earth. Which by the way, leans heavily towards Preterism, one of the prophetic models devised by the Jesuits to remove the pointing finger of biblical prophecy away from their own religious institution. Are you a Preterist?

Concerning Babylon Observe -

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH....................................... ..........
Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Jerusalem in the days of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ’s humanity, did not rule over any of the kings of this earth, nor has it ever to date. There is no good reason to take the terms kings and inhabitants of this earth in the above quoted scriptures to mean priests, rulers, and peoples of literal Israel alone. Such is the restrictive construct of individuals attempting to manipulate scripture unto their own intentionally limited understanding. The many waters which Babylon sits upon in the above scriptures are defined for us in this same chapter we are examining. Observe -

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Will you now insist that the above “peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues all apply to the leaders and peoples of literal Israel alone in Jesus’ day? What sense does that make?

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

When did Jerusalem ever make all nations do anything? She certainly did not during the days of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ or any time after. She was ruled over by and destroyed by the Romans and their armies. Rome lives on today through Roman Catholicism whose leader still bears the title of Pontifex Maximus. This true spiritual city which does continually sacrifice our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through the false doctrine and practice of transubstantiation in her masses. Not to mention other doctrines, practices, and politics which completely contradict the teachings and testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Revelation chapter 18 addresses Babylon again, and again connects her to all the kings, nations, and peoples of this earth. The scarlet, purple, gold, precious stones, pearls, and the golden cup are all attributes of Roman Catholicism visible to all today in the garments of her leaders, the instruments of her practices, and the beautification of her cathedrals. Since 1929 she has been a literal sovereign city state of this world. She has a permanent seat of observation at the United Nations which no other religion has the privilege of. She herself entertains ambassadors from virtually every nation on earth. She even declares her vision concerning the unification of all humanity to be the prefiguration of the undivided CITY of God, emphasis mine.

Quote
ENCYCLICAL LETTER CARITAS IN VERITATE OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF BENEDICT XVI
TO THE BISHOPS PRIESTS AND DEACONS MEN AND WOMEN RELIGIOUS THE LAY FAITHFUL AND ALL PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL ON INTEGRAL HUMAN DEVELOPMENT IN CHARITY AND TRUTH


Man's earthly activity, when inspired and sustained by charity, contributes to the building of the universal city of God, which is the goal of the history of the human family. In an increasingly globalized society, the common good and the effort to obtain it cannot fail to assume the dimensions of the whole human family, that is to say, the community of peoples and nations, in such a way as to shape the earthly city in unity and peace, rendering it to some degree an anticipation and a prefiguration of the undivided city of God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City

Quote
Vatican City, , officially the Vatican City State (Italian: Stato della Città del Vaticano; Latin: Status Civitatis Vaticanae), is the Holy See's independent city state, an enclave within Rome, Italy. The Vatican City State, also known as The Vatican, became independent from Italy with the Lateran Treaty (1929), and it is a distinct territory under "full ownership, exclusive dominion, and sovereign authority and jurisdiction" of the Holy See, itself a sovereign entity of international law, which maintains the city state's temporal, diplomatic, and spiritual independence. With an area of 49 hectares (121 acres) and a population of about 825, it is the smallest sovereign state in the world by both area and population.

Again 3Resurrections, you are simply wrong.
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 06, 2020 - 09:55:40 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #60 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 15:37:15 »
Greetings Amo, I was using my wife's computer yesterday while in Atlanta, I'm back in the saddle in my office where I feel much more comfortable.

Yes, we agree that RCC is the biggest whore dwelling in Mystery Babylon. In Mystery Babylon, you have its religion just as this world does, and separate from its religion, you have Mystery Babylon's philosophies, sciences, politics, and above all its entertainment, which is one of its many gods.Wrong, as you are on most of your eschatology from whence you have fallen from the truth you once embraced, I can say that knowing what you once held to. I can understand someone improving on their understanding, but after many years of believing in a system that was overall sound then make an abrupt change is hard to fathom.

I start with the TRUE BIBLICAL meaning of Mystery Babylon and from thence allow the scriptures to bring together the spiritual puzzle of Biblical Eschatology and it will if we do not force our bias opinions and doctrine into them.

Let me read more of what is posted and I may post more later since I just got in and have not had the chance of catching up.   

All three of us live within fifty miles from each other, ( Amo do you still live around Campobello? 3 Resurrection in Greenville~and I'm in Easley )  why not get together and speak face to face concerning these points.   

I have no objections to getting together. Although I do believe there is actually an advantage to discussing differences by writing rather than personal discussion or debate in a meeting. Writing requires a certain order, in that one cannot interrupt another while expressing their thoughts. It also allows time for one to collect their  thoughts and order their expression. Not to mention supply evidence backing their views up, without having to tote such around to a meeting. Still there is a lot lost on message boards as well. Perhaps prayer together before discussing God's word, fellowship as long as we can disagree and still get along, and expression of mood or intent which cannot be detected in printed words unless penned in such a manner. Although I'm not sure discussion of ones location, whereabouts, or intentions to meet somewhere are such a good idea in todays crazy world. Perhaps personal messages concerning the same would be advisable if we are to meet.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #61 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 16:14:23 »
Hey RB,

I think you have me confused with someone else of your acquaintance.  I’ve never espoused the a-mil position at any time.  The millennium is a literal thousand years, and always has been.  That millennium had an expiration on the very day when the “First Resurrection” occurred - the one when Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 Firstfruits  saints all rose from the dead together in AD 33.

For Amo and your question, yes I am a Preterist, but not one that is typical of your experience probably.  And if you think that Jesus did not die at the location of the city of Jerusalem, then you have problems with various scriptures that say this happened there at Jerusalem in no uncertain terms.  Jesus was crucified on the crest of the Mount of Olives on the east side of Jerusalem.  Try Luke 9:31 for example.  On the Mount of Transfiguration, it says Moses and Elijah “spake of his decease which he should accomplish AT JERUSALEM”. 

There are, as you say, two cities compared in Revelation; they were the OLD physical city of Jerusalem, referred to as “the great city where our Lord was crucified”, which is also called Sodom and Gomorrah, and also nicknamed Babylon, “that great city”.  The other city of Revelation is the “NEW Jerusalem”, which is indeed a spiritual city, as you have said.  Paul also compared these same two cities of the old covenant and the new covenant - one physical, and one spiritual - the OLD physical city of Jerusalem, in contrast to the NEW Jerusalem which is from above, which is the mother of us all.

The peculiar list of adornments of purple and scarlet, gold and precious stones featured on Mystery Babylon are an exact copy of the features of the high priesthood’s garments.  This is long before the RCC.   

Those two literal men who were called “witnesses” in Rev. 11:8 actually did lie dead and unburied in the streets of OLD Jerusalem in AD 67/68.  It was a literal event when Ananas ben Annas and Joshua (both former high priests) were murdered during the Idumean attack that morning after the nighttime earthquake (Rev. 11:13) and storm had hit the city of Jerusalem.  Fulfilled prophecy.  To the letter.

Roman-controlled Jerusalem in the first century actually did reign over the high priests of Israel (the “kings of the earth”).  The high priest’s vestments were held in the Roman-occupied Antonia fortress until the feast days, to be handed out at Rome’s discretion and pleasure.  The high priesthood role itself was assigned to those approved by Rome’s governor or by Herod - Rome’s sycophant.  Jesus Himself could not be condemned to death by the high priests unless Rome allowed it.  All this shows that the high priesthood “kings of the earth” were definitely being “reigned over” by Roman-controlled Jerusalem in those first-century days, according to John.
« Last Edit: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 16:21:24 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline Amo

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #62 on: Sat Nov 28, 2020 - 17:06:21 »
Hey RB,

I think you have me confused with someone else of your acquaintance.  I’ve never espoused the a-mil position at any time.  The millennium is a literal thousand years, and always has been.  That millennium had an expiration on the very day when the “First Resurrection” occurred - the one when Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 Firstfruits  saints all rose from the dead together in AD 33.

For Amo and your question, yes I am a Preterist, but not one that is typical of your experience probably.  And if you think that Jesus did not die at the location of the city of Jerusalem, then you have problems with various scriptures that say this happened there at Jerusalem in no uncertain terms.  Jesus was crucified on the crest of the Mount of Olives on the east side of Jerusalem.  Try Luke 9:31 for example.  On the Mount of Transfiguration, it says Moses and Elijah “spake of his decease which he should accomplish AT JERUSALEM”. 

There are, as you say, two cities compared in Revelation; they were the OLD physical city of Jerusalem, referred to as “the great city where our Lord was crucified”, which is also called Sodom and Gomorrah, and also nicknamed Babylon, “that great city”.  The other city of Revelation is the “NEW Jerusalem”, which is indeed a spiritual city, as you have said.  Paul also compared these same two cities of the old covenant and the new covenant - one physical, and one spiritual - the OLD physical city of Jerusalem, in contrast to the NEW Jerusalem which is from above, which is the mother of us all.

The peculiar list of adornments of purple and scarlet, gold and precious stones featured on Mystery Babylon are an exact copy of the features of the high priesthood’s garments.  This is long before the RCC.   

Those two literal men who were called “witnesses” in Rev. 11:8 actually did lie dead and unburied in the streets of OLD Jerusalem in AD 67/68.  It was a literal event when Ananas ben Annas and Joshua (both former high priests) were murdered during the Idumean attack that morning after the nighttime earthquake (Rev. 11:13) and storm had hit the city of Jerusalem.  Fulfilled prophecy.  To the letter.

Roman-controlled Jerusalem in the first century actually did reign over the high priests of Israel (the “kings of the earth”).  The high priest’s vestments were held in the Roman-occupied Antonia fortress until the feast days, to be handed out at Rome’s discretion and pleasure.  The high priesthood role itself was assigned to those approved by Rome’s governor or by Herod - Rome’s sycophant.  Jesus Himself could not be condemned to death by the high priests unless Rome allowed it.  All this shows that the high priesthood “kings of the earth” were definitely being “reigned over” by Roman-controlled Jerusalem in those first-century days, according to John.

A lot wrong with your above statements, no time now to address them thoroughly now, save a couple of points. You are correct concerning the adornments of the literal priesthood which was to serve simply as a type of the real during the old covenant. In the establishment of the new covenant the position of High Priest and an earthly priesthood standing between humanity and God, was forever removed from sinful human beings and placed in the hands of God the Son who ever lives to make intercession for us. The Roman Catholic church reestablished a priesthood of sinners standing between humanity and God in the place of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Reestablishing that of the old covenant which Jesus came to abolish and take control of Himself, therefore do they employ the garments, colors, and materials of old covenant Israel and its obsolete priesthood in their own fallen religion of humanity. Ever placing themselves between fallen humanity and God, in the usurped place in which Christ alone should stand. 

As far as your claim that the first resurrection has already taken place, it makes a complete mess out of the book  of Revelation, as Preterists do in their attempt to apply all biblical prophecy within it to the past. Everything is defined and explained if not twisted to fit this narrative, rather than the truth of biblical prophecy, which was written for God's own to know where in history they were or are and what work they should be doing according to the same. Preterists are in some lala land delusional state in which the devil already locked down and Christ's own are ruling the earth with Him presently. Correct me if I am wrong here. In any case -

Joh 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So are you saying the resurrection of life has already taken place, and all that is left is the resurrection of damnation, so we are all now damned? Or do you now spiritualize the resurrection of the dead away altogether claiming it is only spiritual now in our lives if or when one accepts Christ? If it is the former, what a gloomy religion you preach and practice. If it is the latter then how do you explain Christ's word concerning the resurrection in the following verses?

Joh 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day....................................
Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day...............................
Joh 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


So, when was this last day upon which Jesus raised all of the saved in Him?

Offline RB

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #63 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 04:35:19 »
Hey RB,

I think you have me confused with someone else of your acquaintance.  I’ve never espoused the a-mil position at any time.
 
Then you hid your belief or the opportunity for you to express your understanding never presented itself. I well remember JRC had a seminar across from BJU on this subject back around 1990~where you at that meeting? I was and assume you were also. Pretty sure you were and your wife as well. I approached him after the meeting and told him that the students there at the meeting backed him into a corner which he had no answers for them because of his Historic views on Matthew 24 some of which you still hold to. I know who you are and what JRC taught on these subjects, which he and I did not agree on and as far as I know, I was the only person that stood up and confronted him, later causes a separation between us, but not the main causes as you well know which need not be discussed since that's in the distance past and no good can come from it. 

Nevertheless, if you never held to a-mill teachings then you never had the truth in any form~for a-mill idealist is the truth of biblical eschatology. I was taught pre-mill when I first came to Christ but soon understood I had been taught wrong as I search diligently for the truth. Btw, still laboring to be more perfect in the truth, which will never happen living in this body of sin and death.
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 04:37:50 by RB »

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #64 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 04:52:40 »
I have no objections to getting together.
I know you would not, for I have met with SDA before to discuss scriptures. There used to be a natural supplement store at the corner of E. North St. and Pelham Road in Greenville and these people were SDA and we went there after hours to discuss scriptures with them~maybe you knew them~very nice people. That was around thirty years ago, the store is no longer there. Now, getting 3 Resurrection to met is another story.  ::smile:: I do not believe that he feels comfortable in such discussions, but feels much more so without people around~unless he has changed since the last time I saw him. We shall see.

I need to get caught up on reading both of what you two have been saying before posting, which I will do starting now.  Later....RB
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 04:57:00 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #65 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 05:43:11 »
Hi RB,

Sorry, but the way you are commenting shows me without doubt that you still have no earthly idea who I am.  I don’t remember ever going with my family to an eschatology conference headed up by JRC.  The only seminar booklet from 1992 that I saved was called “Are you prepared for perilous times?”  But I have no distinct memory of the occasion, or of having any viewpoint on the subject at that time, or of discussing the subject with JRC, or of you doing so.  And I have never, ever held to the Historicist position. 

My interest in this eschatology theme only started 8 years ago and has been consistently Preterist ever since then.  My soul is at total peace that I have been granted the way of truth regarding these things, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.  The Almighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His name.

As of now, there is no way possible for me to arrange meeting with anyone - far too much multiplied medical drama and holiday workroom deadlines.  I may contact you if there is a funeral pending however.

Offline RB

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #66 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 06:03:05 »
Hi RB,

Sorry, but the way you are commenting shows me without doubt that you still have no earthly idea who I am.  I don’t remember ever going with my family to an eschatology conference headed up by JRC.  The only seminar booklet from 1992 that I saved was called “Are you prepared for perilous times?”  But I have no distinct memory of the occasion, or of having any viewpoint on the subject at that time, or of discussing the subject with JRC, or of you doing so.  And I have never, ever held to the Historicist position. 

My interest in this eschatology theme only started 8 years ago and has been consistently Preterist ever since then.  My soul is at total peace that I have been granted the way of truth regarding these things, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.  The Almighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His name.



Well, obviously you have a disease of having trouble remembering things, for I for one remember very well. "Pepper"~ just go to your Facebook and you will see how I finally found out who you were. I have no ideal why you thought you had to keep your identity a secret~but looking back, I kinda see why.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 05:43:11
As of now, there is no way possible for me to arrange meeting with anyone - far too much multiplied medical drama and holiday workroom deadlines.
multiplied medical drama ...ONLY if you been deluded into believing in them. ...... I understand your holiday deadlines.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 05:43:11
I may contact you if there is a funeral pending however.
In other words, you have no desire to do so..... That's fine with me, and probably wise on your part.

One more thing:
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 05:43:11
  And I have never, ever held to the Historicist position.
Well, just in case you refuse to see the differences between the two~let me help you out.......A Historic preacher is a half-baked Pretertist~and truly is one except for a few twists and turns here and there.
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 06:13:41 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #67 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 07:50:45 »
Amo, you specifically asked me to correct you if you were wrong  You are wrong in thinking I am deluded, and living in “la-la land” as you put it.  You are wrong in presuming that I think Satan is bound today.  He’s not.  He has already been destroyed utterly to ashes (and his demonic forces along with him).  They have long ago been crushed under the saints’ feet, according to Paul’s promise in Romans 16:20.  “And the God of peace shall crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY.”

You are wrong in totally disregarding Christ’s resurrection in AD 33 as being the “FIRST resurrection”.  Christ was called the “FIRST-fruits” in I Cor. 15:20 & 23.  Out of that “FIRST-fruits” group of Matthew 27 saints raised along with Him, Christ is uniquely called the “FIRST-begotten” in Heb. 1:6.  And also the “FIRST-born from among the dead” (Col. 1:18) to stand in God’s presence in that resurrected human form. 

Just how many “FIRSTS” do you need from scripture to convince you that the “FIRST resurrection” took place in real time with Christ’s resurrection in AD 33?  Far from making Revelation a “complete mess” as you call it, it clears up the whole issue of where you and I stand on the timeline of prophetic fulfillment.

You and I are waiting for the final THIRD bodily resurrection event in our future.  In the fall of AD 3033 to be exact, at the time that the Feast of Tabernacles would have been celebrated during Old Covenant days (as Zechariah 14:16-19 reminds us to keep that single FOT event in memory).  Our work as saints presently is to continue the Great Commission - the same as those saints who were awaiting the soon-coming SECOND resurrection that occurred on the day of Pentecost in the year AD 70, according to that concluding 1,335th day prophesied in Daniel 12:11-13.

On that occasion (Rev. 20:14-15), God emptied the wicked of Hades into Jerusalem’s Lake of Fire (its “second death” of the temple, its priesthood, and the nation since its Babylonian destruction in 586 BC).  The wicked dead were destroyed along with the devil and his angels, for whom that Lake of Fire in Jerusalem had been prepared. 

Isaiah 24:21-23 also spoke of the evil angelic host of high ones being first imprisoned and then destroyed together along with the “kings of the earth” (high priesthood) of Israel.  When that was done, the Lord of hosts would be manifested as reigning gloriously in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem.  These high priesthood “kings of the earth” in Jerusalem are no more in existence.  Consequently, neither are the evil angelic hosts in existence anymore, since they were prophesied to be imprisoned and destroyed “TOGETHER”.

Hades now since AD 70 is the equivalent of a computer trash bin that has been refilling once again with the wicked dead.  It will be emptied a final time for the destruction of the wicked at the THIRD resurrection in our future, to complete the purging process of God’s universe.

You are wrong in thinking that the saints have not yet “reigned with Christ”.   Any blood-bought saint “reigns in life” with the risen Christ (Rom. 5:17), who was installed on His high priestly throne at His first ascension on His resurrection day, according to Peter in Acts 2:29-36.

 Actually, any saint as a child of faith ever since creation has also shared in God’s reign over the world, which reign has always been an eternal one.  “Thy throne is established of old; thou art from everlasting”, the Psalmist spoke of God’s perpetual reign over His creation.

As for the passages you brought up from John 5 & 6 speaking of the “last day” resurrection, this “last day” was the same event anticipated by Peter, who said that “the end of all things is AT HAND” in HIS days (I Peter 4:7).  It was the same resurrection that Paul testified at least TWICE in scripture that was soon “ABOUT TO BE” in HIS days - one for the just and the unjust (II Tim. 4:1, Acts 24:15).

You too, Amo, just like RB, have never openly addressed the simple definition that God Himself gives of when an “AT HAND” prophecy is fulfilled.  Please give an honest, thorough review of Ezekiel 12:21-28 where God tells you exactly when “AT HAND” prophecies come to fulfillment.  They are NOT  “PROLONGED” into “times that are far off”, but are “spoken” and also “PERFORMED” in “YOUR DAYS” for the ones hearing them for the first time.  That means all of Revelation’s “AT HAND” unsealed prophecies of the future (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10) were fulfilled in THEIR DAYS - not prolonged into our “times that are far off” from John’s writing of Revelation.
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 08:07:55 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #68 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 08:05:27 »
Hey again RB,

Sigh...how many times must I tell you in public and in private messages.  I have no Facebook account...never have had one, and never intend to have one so as to be at the mercy of Zuckerberg and his ilk.  So I cannot possibly be the gentleman you are referring to as “Pepper” with a Facebook page. 

And that was a sincere statement.  I will probably contact you in the event a family funeral becomes a reality. 

Offline RB

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Re: Kings of the earth
« Reply #69 on: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 08:35:35 »
Hey again RB,

Sigh...how many times must I tell you in public and in private messages.  I have no Facebook account...never have had one, and never intend to have one so as to be at the mercy of Zuckerberg and his ilk.  So I cannot possibly be the gentleman you are referring to as “Pepper” with a Facebook page. 

And that was a sincere statement.  I will probably contact you in the event a family funeral becomes a reality.
Well now, I should be the one SIGHING.....I KNOW what I saw and what I read and I know the person I saw. You are not being honest, which really surprises me. Would you like for me to post the link?
« Last Edit: Sun Nov 29, 2020 - 08:47:12 by RB »