Lake of Fire for sinners at the end. Does "For Ever" mean forever?

[Hobie]

Lake of Fire for sinners at the end. Does "For Ever" mean forever from study by Palehorse..

I felt it necessary to do this study for a variety of reasons; but the most important one, in my opinion, is dispelling the false belief of an ever-lasting hell which has turned more people away from the Bible (and Christianity) than probably any other singular topic. No one, not even me, would worship an unloving God that burned people in an ever-lasting torment for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The truth is that the Bible doesn’t teach that and that concept flies in the face of the all-loving God we know Him to be; as such, denominations that teach this concept had better rethink their position not only for the sake of Biblical accuracy but also because this pagan teaching (which is rooted firmly in ancient Greek Hellenistic teachings) is causing the massive decay of the Christian church today.

The root of the problem here is the Biblical meaning of the words “for ever”, “everlasting” and the various forms of “unquenchable”, i.e. “not be quenched”. Most people, understandably so, misunderstand the Biblical concept of these terms. In the Bible these terms sometimes do and sometimes don’t equate to our modern meaning of "forever". In today’s usage these terms mean “for the ceaseless ages of eternity” for the most part though not exclusively. For example:
A married couple: they tell each other “I’ll love you forever” but we all know that people die. What they are truly saying is “they love each other until death”, right? This is a parallel to see how even in modern times "forever" doesn’t necessarily mean the ceaseless age of eternity.

So, let’s establish what the Bible writers’ concept of forever was:
Genesis 43:9 - I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:
Genesis 44:32 - For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.
This was pre-incarnate Jesus talking to the Father in regards to man’s sin. Now, will Jesus bear the blame forever? No. (see Hebrews 9:28) The day will come when there is an end to sin. So the meaning here is clearly meant as “until it is done”.

Exodus 12:14 - And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:17 - And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
Exodus 12:24 - And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
But we know that the feasts were done away with when the Old Covenant was fulfilled by Christ. Exodus 12:14 is talking about the institution of the Passover; later Jesus became our Passover (1 Corinthians 5:7). The key in this verse is the part that says “by an ordinance”. We know that the ordinances were nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14); and there aren’t any ordinances in the 10 Commandments. So again we find that “forever” does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity as is commonly misunderstood.

Let’s get some more examples:
Exodus 19:9 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
The question here is, how can the people “believe thee for ever” if they were mere mortals? They could not, of course, unless they were saved and would get ressurected at Christ's second coming. They died and the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5). The meaning here is that they would believe for as long as they lived, not the ceaseless ages of eternity. Also, the thick cloud that could be seen by day (it was a fire from the sky at night) was no longer seen after Moses’ death. So, again, “for ever” does not equate to our modern understanding of forever.

Exodus 21:6 - Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Would it be possible for a servant or master to live forever? No. Is a man still a servant to another after death? No. This clearly means that the servant would be a servant for the rest of his life and not the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Exodus 27:21 - In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
Exodus 28:43 - And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
Did the earthly tabernacle and its ceremonies last forever? No. (see Col. 2:14) Again, we find the meaning of “for ever” to mean “until it is done”.

In the case of man, this means "as long as he lives" or "until death." (See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28; Exodus 21:6; Psalm 48:14.) So the wicked will burn in the fire as long as they live, or until death. This fiery punishment for sin will vary according to the degree of sins for each individual, but after the punishment, the fire will go out; it will not last for the ceaseless ages of eternity.
Jeremiah 17:27 - But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall NOT BE QUENCHED.
We all know that Jerusalem is not still burning today; as such the fire that “shall not be quenched” means that it cannot be put out UNTIL it has done God’s purpose. No man can quench it; only God can. And God obviously did quench that fire else it would still be burning to this day.

We find in the following verses the same concept:
Isaiah 1:28-31 - And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed. 29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen. 30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water. 31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
The key here is the last part of the last line: “and none shall quench them.” This clearly means that no one will be able to quench the fire that burns the wicked. But just as we learned in Jeremiah 17:27 only God can quench a fire that He has started. God is consistent in His doings.
When we apply this to another example from Isaiah where he further talks of Christ’s second coming, we now understand it more clearly:
Isaiah 34:8-10 - For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance (this is when it happens – not before) , and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Now we see that “from generation to generation” means “the generations of the wicked”, i.e. generations of wicked poeple, not that the fire will last from generation to generation. The only way for that to mean otherwise would mean that people would be procreating in hell – which is an absurd notion. That would then further mean that babies born in hell would burn for no reason. That idea goes totally against what we know of God’s character, does it not? Also in this verse we find another "not be quenched" phrase which by now is clearly understood to mean "unstoppable until it has served its purpose".

Let’s look at Jonah’s example:
Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars were about me FOR EVER: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
The book of Matthew says Jonah was in the belly of the whale THREE DAYS; not for ever. Here we see the same thing that “for ever” can mean a limited amount of time. Though I must say, to Jonah those 3 days must have seemed like forever. In Jonah 2:6, "for ever" means "three days and nights." (See Jonah 1:17.) In Deuteronomy 23:3, this meant "10 generations."


These examples should be ample to illustrate that “for ever” according to Biblical teachings does not mean the ceaseless ages of eternity. The same holds true for other phrases such as "not be quenched" and "everlasting". Now that we’ve firmly established the true scriptural concept involved here let’s move on to the question of hell-fire.

(End of Part 1)

[Hobie]

(Part 2)


Question: If the wicked burn in hell for the ceaseless ages of eternity then wouldn’t they also have eternal life?

The wicked don’t get eternal life, the Bible doesn’t teach that:

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 3:15 - Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
John 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 6:54 - Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Romans 2:7 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Romans 5:21 - That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Proverbs 10:25 - As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

This verse is an example of everlasting actually meaning our modern usage of the word. Notice that the wicked become “no more”. If they burned in hell forever then this verse (and many others) should be removed from the Bible because they would totally contradict the concept that has been already been well established.
Isaiah 33:14 - The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

This verse goes back to showing that “everlasting” doesn’t mean our modern usage. Notice the phrase “devouring fire”; how can a fire devour something that continues to exist? Simple – it cannot. The fire DOES devour the sinners/wicked and they are no more.

When the Bible says the wicked will burn “for ever” it does NOT necessarily mean the ceaseless ages of eternity; it simply means “until it is done/accomplished”. To say those in hell will burn forever totally uproots the following verses and many more:
Isaiah 47: 9-14 – “But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know. Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail. Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee. Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.”
Quick note - stubble burns fairly quickly.

Malachi 4:1-3 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
If the dead burn in hell forever then they would be left with root and branch. Also, how can the righteous tread down the wicked that will be ashes if they are eternally burning forever? Simple, they cannot. The Bible does not contradict itself and a “eternally burning” hell is not scripturally accurate. That concept is foreign to the scriptures.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The wages of sin is not eternal life while burning in an eternal hell; the wages of sin is death. Hell-fire is the means used to bring about that death.

Psalms 37:20 - But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psalms 112:10 - The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Proverbs 10:28 - The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.
Psalms 68:2 - As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
The wicked cannot perish and burn forever at the same time – that would be an oxymoron if there ever was one. It would also mean that the Bible is inaccurate and inconsistent which it isn't. Again, it is US that must change our preconceived notions and accept what the Bible is telling us.


Psalm 104:35 - Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
Aha, the wicked will become “no more”; a verse that says it plainly.

Ezekiel 28:18, 19 - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Another verse that says it plainly; they (the wicked) will be no more. They can’t be burning forever AND be “no more” at the same time. Obviously it is the result that will be eternal and forever.

How does this all come together?
The Biblical teaching is simple; the results of hell-fire are eternal, everlasting, and forever; the actual fire and those burning in it are not. I think people can get confused with the actual burning and the final result and purpose of hell-fire. The result lasts forever, the fires do not. This confusion is reflected well in the following verse where "everlasting" is the stumbling-block word but now that you know the truth verses like this become easily understandble:
Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Conclusion:
Many portions of the Bible simply cannot be reconciled unless the reader understands that the term “for ever” or “not be quenched” or “unquenchable” can also mean “until it is done/accomplished” and not always the “ceaseless ages of eternity” as is the common English meaning. For the Bible to be consistent, which we all know it is and all believers should understand that, then WE must change, not the Bible. We must change our understanding and get rid of preconcieved notions. As with anything, the reader must understand the context as well as the Biblical meaning of words, not the modern, in order to fully comprehend the meaning. The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. The key is to consider its proper context and compare scriptures to get the full meaning. Unless one reads with the desire to understand and the willingness to compare scriptures then they will not understand this topic or any others that the Bible teaches – it’s just that simple. The essay above was based on a essay or written by PaleHorse and has no copyright.


(End of Essay)

[Hobie]

To add one more example:
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." --Jude 1 : 7 KJV

If we were supposed to take "eternal fire" as meaning it would be on fire burning forever then those cities would still be burning today; they are not of course. This means that the results of the fire is eternal; those cities have never been rebuilt and will never be.

[Hobie]

Here is a great study on this by Ralph Blodgett.

"Contrary to popular beliefs, the Bible teaches that the wicked will be destroyed at the end of time, not condemned to a place of eternal torment.
To illustrate how graphic some ministers become in their altar-call presentations (and how far from the Bible they digress), allow me to quote from a tract published a few years back and recommended especially valuable for children. "The sinner lies chained down on a bed of red-hot blazing fire....All the body is salted with fire. The fire burns through every bone and every muscle, every nerve is trembling and quivering with the sharp fire. The fire rages inside the skull, it shoots out through the eyes, it drops out through the ears, it roars in the throat as it roars up a chimney. So will mortal sin be punished." The author’s name, surprisingly enough, is Reverend J. Furniss.

Teachings such as these, both past and present, grossly distort God’s nature and misconstrue His motives. Admittedly the Scriptures do claim, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:19). The word here and elsewhere translated "vengeance" comes from edikesis, a Greek word meaning "vindication," or "retribution."

Vengeance as used in the Scriptures must not be confused with revenge, an English word that indicates a desire to "get even," "to retaliate against someone for wrongs he or she has committed against an individual," or "to get satisfaction of a grudge by inflicting injury."

Revenge involves a vindictiveness, a rancor, or a vendetta. Such motives are completely alien to God’s nature. He does not store up hatred against sinners and then unleash that hostility and animosity by sentencing sinners to roast eternally over the iron spits of hellfire. God is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

God’s vengeance, mentioned many times in Scripture, is the inexorable execution of divine justice. It stems not from His anger but from His absolute purity. Sin and sinners cannot survive in the presence of Absolute Holiness, just as darkness is obliterated by light. "Our God is a consuming fire," declared the author of Hebrews, in chapter 12, verse 29. God demonstrated that fact in a small way at Mount Sinai (see Exodus 24:17) and will do so in a much greater way at the end of time (Psalm 50:3).

God’s vengeance, or wrath, will result in the complete destruction of the wicked, not their eternal torture. Many passages of Scripture attest to the complete annihilation of the wicked in the lake of fire:

"By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed." "let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." "And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed." "but the wicked shall perish,...they shall be consumed; into smoke shall they consume away" (Job 4:9; Psalm 104:35; Isaiah 1:28; Psalm 37:20)

[Hobie]

Whatever one comes to believe about hell, about the fires of hell, that belief must take into consideration the content of the above texts, as well as many others.

If the wicked burn forever, how can Psalm 104:35 declare, "Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more"? The Scriptures cannot contradict themselves. The solution must be in our interpretation or application of texts, which seem on the surface to present an opposing position.

Why, then, do so many Christians believe in a hell that burns forever? Quite simply, because of a few passages of Scripture, which—if viewed apart from the many other texts that teach the wicked are destroyed at the end—seem to teach the flames are eternal. Let’s look at three of the most famous passages:(1) the rich man and Lazarus parable,(2) the "eternal fire," and (3) the "unquenchable fire."


1. The rich man and Lazarus parable. Although many use this account (Luke 16:19-31) to support that the wicked go to Hades when they die, most readers forget the story is actually a parable, not an account of real events.

Were it teaching facts about the future life, then all the righteous go "into Abraham’s bosom" at death (verse 22), the lost in hell are visible to the redeemed in heaven (verse 26), and the two groups can communicate back and forth across the gulf separating them (verse 24). Yet virtually all theologians reject such conclusions.

Actually, Christ addressed the Pharisees when He recited this account (verse 14). Using one of their own well-known stories about the future (nearly every detail was recorded in Josephus' book, Josephus' Discourses to the Greeks Concerning Hades [pp. 637, 638], which was written shortly after Christ's time), Christ pointed out that in this life only we determine our future destiny. No second probation exists for the human race.

He employed a popular pharisaical story to teach an important lesson to the Pharisees. But the details of the story so contradict the other teachings of Christ (see Matthew 13:36-40) that no one should accuse Him of supporting the details of the parable itself.

2. The "eternal fire." The expressions "eternal fire" (Jude 7), "everlasting destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9), and other similar phrases refer not to the duration of the flames that destroy the wicked but to the kind of flames, and the effects of those flames (i.e., it is an eternal destruction; they will never again see life).

We know this because of the example in Jude 7: "Sodom and Gomorrah ... are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (emphasis supplied). Are Sodom and Gomorrah burning today? Of course not! Peter claimed those two cities were turned "into ashes,... making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly" (2 Peter 2:6). Obviously, according to the Scriptures, an eternal fire does not burn eternally but rather its effects last for all eternity.

3. The "unquenchable fire." This expression, which occurs only twice in the Bible (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17), again refers to the kind of fire God will use to destroy the wicked. No one will be able to extinguish it before it burns up the wicked (see Matthew 3:12).

God’s Word declares this fire is so hot it will melt the very elements of the earth and will destroy all the works of mankind (2 Peter 3:10-12). Just as the fires that destroyed ancient Jerusalem, God said, "shall not be quenched" (Jeremiah 17:27), so also the fire that destroys the wicked will not be quenched until it has accomplished its destruction (see Jeremiah 52:12, 13; 2 Chronicles 36:19).

The true fate of the wicked. Contrary to the popular teachings, this fire that God sends down upon the lost at the end of time will completely devour all the wicked (Revelation 20:9). It will cleanse the earth of every taint of sin and even burn up the very elements of the earth (2 Peter 3:10-12). It will make the way open for God to create a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1).

The wicked shall be destroyed in this fire (Psalm 145:20); they will die (Ezekiel 18:4); they will perish (John 3:16); they will be cut off (Psalm 37:28); they will be consumed (Psalm 37:20); they will be burned up (Psalm 97:3); and they shall be no more (Psalm 37:10).

It is the conclusion of this author that hell, as popularly believed and taught, is the doctrine of the devil and not of God. It is contrary to what the Bible teaches about God. It is inconsistent with every reason that can be mustered in favor of it. It is against the teachings of Scripture, properly understood. And it is merely an extension of the first lie that Satan gave to Eve in the Garden of Eden: "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (Geneses 3:4).

Satan’s great lie, that when you die you really don’t die, but you keep on living forever—either in heaven or in hell—has been perpetuated from pulpits century after century down through the ages since time began.

Yet, upon the broad foundation of this single lie religionists have erected such great theological institutions as Purgatory, Indulgences, Prayers to Dead Saints, Communication With the Dead (i.e., spiritualism), and Eternal Torment for the Wicked in Hellfire.

It’s time we laid this abominable doctrine aside and placed our trust in the true teachings of God’s Word. Thank God that His plan for eliminating sin from the universe far surpasses man’s plans."

[Hobie]

Here are some good verses that explain the day of destruction for the wicked where they are completely destroyed.

"That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath." Job 21:30.

• How will they be destroyed?
"Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them." Psalms 21:9.

• What will happen to evildoers?
"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth." Psalms 37:9.

• What will happen to the wicked?
"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Psalms 37:10.

• Will the wicked go on living throughout eternity?
"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20.

• So the wicked will be destroyed and not burn forever?
"But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off." Psalms 37:38.

• But doesn't "cut off" only mean they will be separated from God?
"As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God." Psalms 68:2.

• So then this must mean that the wicked will be no more or consumed?
"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD." Psalms 104:35.

• So there will be a final destruction of the wicked, they will not burn in hell for eternity?
"The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalms 145:20.

• What method will God use to destroy the wicked?
"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14.

• But I thought the soul never dies?
"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

• Will the wicked be burned up completely?
"Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee." Ezekiel 28:18.

• So they will cease to exist?
"All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:19.

• How does God feel about the final destruction of the wicked?
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" Ezekiel 33:11.

• So after the destruction of the wicked, sin will never rise up again?
"What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry." Nahum 1:9-10.

• How complete will the final destruction of the wicked be?
"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.

[Hobie]

The Bible is not ambiguous on the subject. While Jesus did make it very clear that there is a real hell (see Matthew 10:28), He explained something vitally significant in the parable of the wheat and the tares.

"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire," Jesus said, "so shall it be in the end of this world" (Matthew 13:40). The point is repeated just nine verses later in the parable of the net. The implications of such a position are obvious. First, in sharp contrast to the claims of Vatican City, hell is a real place where the "children of the wicked one" (Matthew 13:38) will be "burned" (verse 40). We also learn that, contrary to the other commonly held view on the subject, nobody has gone there yet

[larry2]

Dear Hobie - Bull

God's love does prevail; He gave His Son that whosoever will

God's judgment is also just; shall not God do that which is right, or can God lie?

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
 
Universalism attempts to make a case that God will not punish - Don't buy into it

Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar 

In Jesus' name - larry2

[wayne]

it hurts me hourly to think people i know will be in hell fire forever. i talk to them when i can. but now youre saying forever dont mean forever. between you and the god forsaken catholics and the idiot mormons and the jehovas, not one word in the bible means what it says. so why do you all bother with it. well the vatican had the guts to do something about it. they got all thses canons and writings and stuff that they feed to their flocks. they have effectively done away with the bible, not to mention that the vatican had forbid people to read it on pain of death. now thats guts. even those pansy ass mormon came up with their own bible. so Hobie, whats your religion doing about it? what books do they have that we can read and get the truth?