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Offline jonebgood

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The ten commandments.
« on: Sat May 22, 2010 - 20:20:10 »
Is it possible that a person could obey all of the 10 commandments and still fall short.  The rich young ruler told Jesus that he had done all these things from his youth, when Jesus mentioned some of the law. Yet he did not love his nieghbour as himself, because when he was asked to give what he had to the poor, he couldnt and walked away. Jesus never said that he didnt keep the law. While the commandment says not to steal, it doesnt say, if any one takes YOUR coat give him something else too. While it teaches not to kill, it does not mention that the greatest gift is to lay down YOUR life for another. While it teaches not to commit adultery, it does not teach that if YOUR spouse commits adultery we are to forgive.  While it tells one to keep the sabbath, it does not mention the finished work of Christ on Calvary, where He died for YOUR sins.  These things the law cannot do. While it showed what sin is prior to Christ, as the school master, it falls short in showing us how to truly live as Christians. The commandments Jesus wants us to obey are not the old law, because it has nothing to do with loving your neighbour or God. These are the great commandments, love for God and love for fellow man. You can obey the first 4 and think you are loving God, you can obey the last 6 and think you are loving your fellow man, but if that is your testimony like the rich young ruler you will walk away, empty.  Like the priest in the story of the good samaritan you can walk by and still obey the law.

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The ten commandments.
« on: Sat May 22, 2010 - 20:20:10 »

Offline CocoValet

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #1 on: Fri May 28, 2010 - 12:57:22 »
The rich man did break the 10 commandments...  At the very least he broke the 1st and 2nd commandments...  He put his wealth before God and his wealth was his idol...  He lied so that breaks the 9th commandment...  The rich man tried to attain righteousness through works rather than faith...

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #1 on: Fri May 28, 2010 - 12:57:22 »

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #2 on: Fri May 28, 2010 - 20:43:19 »
Well that strikes me odd, that when he said he had done all these things from his youth that Jesus would not have corrected him. When speaking to the woman at the well He made a point of correcting and identifying her lie. You quote a law on stone, I'm talking about a relationship with Jesus. The rich young ruler lived by the law, not the Spirit.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jun 12, 2010 - 10:22:01 »
Jesus didn't cite all Ten commandments.

Luke 18:20  Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Jesus showed that the law on stone (symbolising its permanence) had to be in the heart and mind as well.  Its not hard not to kill, but to show love for your neighbor is another thing entirely.

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jun 12, 2010 - 10:22:01 »

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jun 12, 2010 - 20:50:14 »
Very good now your getting somewhere the law of stone into the heart. What kind of heart does that give you? I rest my case. And because He didnt quote all the law that means something?

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jun 12, 2010 - 20:50:14 »



Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jun 12, 2010 - 22:01:45 »
Very good now your getting somewhere the law of stone into the heart. What kind of heart does that give you?
Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Jeremiah 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Isaiah 51:7  Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

Quote
I rest my case.

What case?

Quote
And because He didnt quote all the law that means something?
Yes.

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jun 13, 2010 - 16:29:34 »
Ez. 11:19 New spirit not new law. Same for Ez.36:26. Jer. 31:33 This is speaking of the new covenant to love God with all your heart and love your fellowman as yourself, something the old covenant with Isreal did not have, as it was all outward (stone) and not inward (heart).

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jun 13, 2010 - 20:19:19 »
Quote
old covenant with Isreal did not have, as it was all outward (stone) and not inward (heart).

The texts:

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Jeremiah 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Isaiah 51:7  Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

all come from what we call, the OT.

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #8 on: Sun Jun 13, 2010 - 23:13:39 »
Yes and they were prophets, thier words for latter times.

Offline NTPREACHER4U

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jun 13, 2010 - 23:45:16 »
Ez. 11:19 New spirit not new law. Same for Ez.36:26. Jer. 31:33 This is speaking of the new covenant to love God with all your heart and love your fellowman as yourself, something the old covenant with Isreal did not have, as it was all outward (stone) and not inward (heart).

The law of faith not the law of works.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jun 14, 2010 - 00:00:45 »
No one was ever saved by works--also, think of it: how much work is there in a "Thou shalt not"?  Do you have to "work" at it?  It has always been by faith.

Offline NTPREACHER4U

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jun 14, 2010 - 04:54:38 »
No one was ever saved by works--also, think of it: how much work is there in a "Thou shalt not"?  Do you have to "work" at it?  It has always been by faith.

Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Phil 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Phil 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

The law of faith is not the same as the law of works in the Old Testament. Paul preached Jesus Christ and not circumsism.

The Law of Moses and Grace are complete opposites. One is of works and the other of faith.

The scripture says that without faith, it is impossible to please God. God is not pleased by those following the old testament, but following the Holy
Spirit.

Doesn't the scripture say that the sons of God are led by the Spirit of God. Is Jesus the son of God? Was he led by the Spirit here on the earth?

Grace to all.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jun 14, 2010 - 06:42:24 »
Quote
The law of faith is not the same as the law of works in the Old Testament. Paul preached Jesus Christ and not circumsism.
Paul notes the faith of Abraham--why would he do that if Abraham could have been made righteous by works?  Circumcision was not part of the Law--in fact, it was given to Abraham before the Law was given.  Gal. 3:11 quotes Hab. 2:4--odd place to find that if one was saved by one's works in the OT.  The crux of Galatians was: should the Gentiles who wanted to become Christians have to be circumcised and follow the ceremonial law IN ORDER TO BE A MEMBER OF THE SAVED (not just to be saved).  Paul was telling them NO!
« Last Edit: Tue Jun 15, 2010 - 06:43:38 by djconklin »

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jun 14, 2010 - 18:51:29 »
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[/b]




Offline AvrilNYC

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #14 on: Tue Jun 15, 2010 - 06:31:43 »
Works and Faith go hand in hand is not an either or. As Paul very well put it in Gal. 5:6 In Christ Jesus neither circumcision, not uncircumcision counts for anything but only faith working through love

Paul tells us that our faith renders us "just". This faith however is not a thought, an opinion, an idea, or an emotional experience. This faith is communion with Christ which the Lord gives us and which becomes conformity with him. Faith if it is true, if it is real becomes love, becomes charity, is expressed in charity. A faith without charity, without this fruit, would not be true faith. It would be a dead faith.

Now Jesus tells us how this love, this charity, is supposed to be manifested if faith is to be genuine and not just a warm, fuzzy feeling:

Luke 18:22 "When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Luke 14:33 "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."
Matthew 25: Come, you blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in: 36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37...Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.


Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #15 on: Sun Jul 04, 2010 - 14:06:23 »
Is it possible that a person could obey all of the 10 commandments and still fall short. 

Quite true.  That's why in the SDA church they teach righteousness by faith.

Quote
The rich young ruler told Jesus that he had done all these things from his youth, when Jesus mentioned some of the law.

The key word is "some."  The rich young ruler had not kept all of the law.

Quote
While it tells one to keep the sabbath, it does not mention the finished work of Christ on Calvary, where He died for YOUR sins. 
Mixing two different things; the Sabbath isn't to save you--it is there to remind you who is your Creator vs. falling for evolution.  As your Creator then, only God can sanctify you:

KJV Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

KJV Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

By resting physically, you show that you are resting spiritually in Christ.

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #16 on: Thu Jul 29, 2010 - 00:38:18 »
Paul talks a lot about the fact the ceremonial law was a shadow of Christ, and Christ as a reality in the New Testament.  The Ten Commandments are still in effect, contrary to popular belief;

but what about the rest of the moral law?  

Nowhere in the New Testament are the Ten commandments  shoved aside.

There were civil laws;  for example if your neighbor’s donkey wandered away, you were to bring it back.  

There were also many health laws.  
There were the ceremonial laws, which would encompass some of the feast days.  
And of course, there were the Ten Commandments.

When God  gave the Ten Commandments, He did something unique to show that it was foundational. He spoke it with His own voice, which He did not do with the other laws. He wrote it with His own finger in stone as a symbol of its unchanging nature.

The Ten Commandments are on the Supreme Court building, they are foundational to all other law written.

Now the two great commandments of loving the Lord and loving your neighbor,
they are found first in the Old Testament.  They are a summary of the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments were on two tables of stone.  
The first four Commandments are encompassed in loving God.  
The last six are encompassed in our relationship with our fellow man.

Then beyond that, underneath those Ten Commandments, you’ve got a whole spectrum of civil laws, and even some of the health laws have to do with
‘Thou shalt not kill,’ and that would include yourself.

And so you can find most of the moral law falls under the Ten Commandments, whereas the ceremonial laws were shadows  and that’s why it says in Colossians chapter 2, ‘certain laws that were shadows.’

 For instance, Passover, when they kill the lamb, that lamb and that whole ceremony and that feast was a shadow of when Jesus, the Lamb of God, would come.
So once Jesus came, the Bible says He is now our Passover.  
So it’s going backwards now for us to observe the shadow and ignore the reality.

So the health laws, civil laws, moral law, they would all be practical even still.  
A lot of those laws are very practical in nature;
 
whereas the ceremonial laws,,  they revolved around the Exodus, the Sanctuary and its services, circumcision, these are all things that had a spiritual meaning.  
And then it tells us in the New Testament that this was now fulfilled through the Lamb.
 It’s now circumcision of the heart, so forth.

regarding sexual purity examples.  Those, would still be in effect.  

But then they had some laws that had to do with sacrifices at the temple, whether you give birth to a baby boy or a baby girl.  those are ceremonial because it’s in connection with sacrifices in the temple.



« Last Edit: Sat Jul 31, 2010 - 23:43:49 by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #17 on: Thu Jul 29, 2010 - 00:56:36 »
Billy Graham statement on question of Ten Commandments

QUESTION:
Some religious people I know tell me that the Ten Commandments are part of the law that do not apply to us today.  They say that Christians are free from the law.  
Is this Right ?

ANSWER:
No it is not right! and I hope you will not be misled by these false opinions! It is very important that Christians understand what the bible means, they are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the Obligation of the Moral Law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see, the word “law

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #18 on: Thu Jul 29, 2010 - 19:31:27 »
Is this the same Billy Graham who, when speaking to Robert Schuller said there would be people in heaven who had never heard the name Jesus. That God could accept people of other faiths. How you like to quote other church leaders when they suit your practice. Why not put Mr. Grahams thoughts in the Sabbath school quarterly? Why not call on the JWs to fortify your stand on soul sleep? I dont care what any religious leader says, I care about what the Word of God says.

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #19 on: Thu Jul 29, 2010 - 20:39:16 »
 1.How could and why would a perfect God abolish a perfect Law?
(Matthew 5:48) Psalms 19:7.

2.How could and why would a Righteous God abolish a Righteous Law?
(Psalms 145:17) Psalms 119:172.

3.How could and why would God who is unchangeable change or abolish a Law that is unchangeable?
(Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8) Matthew 5:17-19; Psalms 111:7-8.

4.How could and why would a God of Truth do away with a Law that is the Truth?
(John 14:6) Psalms 119:142, 151.

5.How could and why would a God who is Just do away with a just Law?
(Acts 3:14; Deuteronomy 32:4) Romans 7:12.

6.How could and why would a Holy God abolish a Holy Law?
(Isaiah 6:3) Romans 7:12.

7.How could and why would a God who is Good do away with a Law that is good?
(Psalms 34:8) Romans 7:12.

8.How could and why would a Spiritual God abolish a spiritual Law?
 (John 4:24)  Romans 7:14.

9.How could and why would God abolish the Law that tells what sin is?
1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15; Romans 7:7.

10.How could and why would God abolish the very Law that Christ came to magnify and make honourable?
Isaiah 42:21.

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #20 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:37:55 »
The TEN COMMAMDMENTS

(Exo 34:28) He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the
“TEN COMMANDMENTS
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 18:05:39 by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #21 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 13:39:49 »
These are the commandments repeated in the NT the same as the Old

Mat 5:27 KJV) YE HAVE HEARD that it was said by them of OLD TIME,
Thou shalt not commit ADULTERY:

Rom 13:9 KJV) For this,
Thou shalt not commit ADULTERY,
Thou shalt not KILL,
Thou shalt not STEAL,
Thou shalt not bear FALSE WITNESS,
Thou shalt not COVET;
and if there be any other COMMANDMENT, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour as thyself.

Jas 2:11 KJV) For he that said,
DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also,
Do not KILL.
Now if thou commit no ADULTERY,
yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Rom 7:7 KJV) What shall we say then?
Is the law sin?  God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Mar 12:29 Jesus replied,
"The most important one is this:'Listen, Israel! The LORD OUR GOD is the only Lord.

1Jo 5:21 My children, Keep yourselves safe from FALSE GODS!

Rom 2:22 KJV) thou that abhorrest IDOLS, dost thou commit sacrilege?


Jesus quoting the first two commandments of God to Satan


Mat 4:10  Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU shall WORSHIP the LORD your GOD, and HIM ONLY you SHALL SERVE.' "

Deu 5:7  'You shall have NO OTHER GODS before Me.
Deu 5:8  'You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Deu 5:9  you SHALL NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM NOR SERVE THEM. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,


(Mat 15:9) But in VAIN they do WORSHIP me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
H7723 in vain uselessness (as deceptive)

Mar 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and STRAIGHTWAY on the SABBATH DAY he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise,
And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a REST to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his

Mat 19:18 KJV) He saith unto him, Which? JESUS SAID,
Thou shalt do no MURDER,
Thou shalt not commit ADULTERY,
Thou shalt not STEAL,
Thou shalt not bear FALSE WITNESS,

Mar 10:19 KJV) thou knowest the COMMANDMENTS,
Do not commit ADULTERY,
Do not KILL, Do not STEAL,
Do not bear FALSE WITNESS, defraud not,
Honour thy FATHER AND MOTHER.

Luk 18:20 KJV) thou knowest the COMMANDMENTS,
Do not commit ADULTERY,
Do not KILL,
Do not STEAL,
Do not bear FALSE WITNESS,
Honour thy FATHER AND THY MOTHER.
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 18:11:17 by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #22 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 18:22:31 »
OT Law of Love same as NT Law of Love are entwined into Obedience to the TEN commandments...

The first 4 COMMANDMENTS is devoted to Our relationship with God

Exo 20:2  I am the LORD thy God,
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy UNTO thousands of THEM that “LOVE ME
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 18:45:08 by Michael G »

Offline Michael G

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #23 on: Fri Jul 30, 2010 - 18:47:04 »
Last six COMMANDMENTS are devoted to our relationship to each other

Exo 20:12  #5    Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exo 20:13  #6   Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14  #7   Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15  #8   Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16  #9   Thou shalt not bear false witness
Exo 20:17  #10 Thou shalt not covet


(Lev 19:34)  But the STRANGER that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and THOU SHALT LOVE HIM AS THYSELF; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 19:18)  You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall LOVE your NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF: I am the LORD.

(Zec 8:17)  LET NONE of you THINK EVIL in your HEART AGAINST your NEIGHBOR; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,' Says the LORD."



(Mat 19:19)  'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER,(#5)  and, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' " (one of the greatest commandments)

note: they are all Great commandments of God, "all TEN", just because God says;  love Your Neighbor, it does not mean take the #4 commandment of the Chart...

(Rom 13:9)  For the COMMANDMENTS, "you shall NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," "you shall NOT MURDER," "you shall NOT STEAL," "you shall NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS," "you shall NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, are ALL SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, "you shall LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

(Rom 13:10)  Love DOES NO HARM to a NEIGHBOR; therefore love is the FULFILLMENT of the law.

(Gal 5:14)  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "YOU shall LOVE your NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF."

(Jas 2:8)  If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU shall LOVE your NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you do well;

(Mar 12:31)  And the second, like it, is this: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

(Mar 12:33)  And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS ONESELF, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."



(Mat 5:43)  "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and HATE YOUR ENEMY.'

HATE your ENEMY which is SIN  = leads us into Bondage,  Captivity, Sin = Devil , therefore  Hate SIN, the DEVIL, SATAN, the Dragon  = who leads us into Captivity with him through the choice to sin..

it is the Sin itself that leads the Mind to hate, The PERSON is unaware who is controling them, so Love the Person who is your Enemy but hate the sin that controls them and us at times..  

We were all Enemies of God at one point in our lives, we were all Tares among the Wheat and we may still be for fear that we Examine ourselves first..



(1Jn 3:8)  He that committeth SIN is of the DEVIL; for the DEVIL SINNETH from the beginning. For this purpose the SON OF GOD was manifested, that he might DESTROY the WORKS of the devil.

Exo 20:2  I am the LORD thy God, which have BROUGHT THEE OUT of the land of EGYPT, out of the house of BONDAGE

note: Egypt = Atheism,  Satan’s Territory of unbelief,  Transgressors
(Captivity Bondage unto sin).


(Rom 7:7)  I WOULD NOT have KNOWN SIN except THROUGH the LAW. For I would not have known COVETOUSNESS unless the law had said, "YOU shall NOT COVET."

(Jas 2:9)   you commit SIN, and are CONVICTED by the LAW as TRANSGRESSORS.


« Last Edit: Fri Aug 06, 2010 - 16:00:46 by Michael G »

Offline Randy S

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #24 on: Sat Aug 14, 2010 - 19:50:02 »
<<This is speaking of the new covenant to love God with all your heart and love your fellowman as yourself, something the old covenant with Isreal did not have...>>


Deuteronomy 6:5   And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 

Leviticus 19:34   [But] the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I [am] the LORD your God. 

Hebrews 8:10-11   For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 


As you can see from the texts above, the statement I quoted from earlier in this thread is wrong in two ways.  First, the command to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as thyself was from the Old Testament and the Jews had it all along.

Second, the new covenant was not love God and your neighbor.  That was from the beginning.  The new covenant found in Jeremiah and repeated in Hebrews (text above) is that God will write his law into the hearts and minds of those who choose to follow Him.

In the old covenant God stated the law and the people said they would obey it, which they could not do in their own power.  In the new covenant God promises to write his law in the heart and mind and the people agree to let Him change them.  That's how people are changed from rebels to loyal members of God's kingdom.  It never worked any other way.

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #25 on: Sun Aug 15, 2010 - 00:05:41 »
So then we are santified by the law? Doesnt the Bible say that Jesus Christ is our justification, sanctification, and glorification? So the One who saves us does it all, and our good works are a results of a relationship with Him. All three are one work done by One Saviour, rather than the law.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #26 on: Sun Aug 15, 2010 - 04:18:51 »
>Is it possible that a person could obey all of the 10 commandments and still fall short.  The rich young ruler told Jesus that he had done all these things from his youth, when Jesus mentioned some of the law. Yet he did not love his nieghbour as himself, because when he was asked to give what he had to the poor, he couldnt and walked away. Jesus never said that he didnt keep the law.

He claimed to obey the law.  There's no proof that he actually did so.  And notice that Christ only quoted part of the law.  One could theoretically obey the letter of the law--how many of us have actually killed someone?  But, if you do not obey the moral principles that make the 10C's a moral law then you will not obey the law.

Amo

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #27 on: Sun Aug 15, 2010 - 09:42:35 »
Quote
So then we are santified by the law? Doesnt the Bible say that Jesus Christ is our justification, sanctification, and glorification? So the One who saves us does it all, and our good works are a results of a relationship with Him. All three are one work done by One Saviour, rather than the law.

No, the law sanctifies no one.  Yes, Jesus is all in all.  He did not come to destroy the law and the prophets, but to fulfill them.  He has asked us to pick up our cross and follow Him.  If we believe anything that contradicts His word, we have been deceived.

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

II Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:


Offline Randy S

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #28 on: Sun Aug 15, 2010 - 11:27:17 »
<<All three are one work done by One Saviour, rather than the law.>>

Salvation is provided by God, not by the law.  However, the law is a part of salvation, as shown by the texts that I quoted, in that salvation under the new covenant of grace includes God's writing his law on our hearts and minds.  That's how sanctification works.  It is the work of God.

It's important to remember that God requires free will, the power of choice, and that he does not force anyone to be saved.  So man's part in salvation is to choose to cooperate with God's work to change our hearts and minds.  In other words, we must choose to cooperate and not fight against God if we are going to be saved.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #29 on: Sun Aug 15, 2010 - 11:37:51 »
Quote
Doesnt the Bible say that Jesus Christ is our justification, sanctification, and glorification? So the One who saves us does it all, and our good works are a results of a relationship with Him. All three are one work done by One Saviour, rather than the law.
The Law shows why you need the righteousness of Christ.  Only He can save you.

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #30 on: Mon Aug 16, 2010 - 20:11:57 »
Man must choose to cooperate with God? Adam couldnt cooperate with God, and He was created without sin. In fact when Adam sinned he hid from God. Then he blamed Eve. God looked for Adam not Adam for God. I cant even choose what shirt to wear at times. Without Christ I cant choose to do anything. Jesus parables are about the Saviour looking for the lost sheep, the lost coin, etc. God looks for man not vice versa. A famous evangelist used to say repent and come to Christ, well I think that might be somewhat backward, come to Christ and let him change your life. Yes the law points us to Christ and He alone can save us.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #31 on: Mon Aug 16, 2010 - 20:22:16 »
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Yes the law points us to Christ and He alone can save us.
Correct.  Jesus fulfilled the Law's requirement for righteousness and the Law pointed to Him as our Saviour.  The Gosel and the Law are like hand and glove.

You also correct about Jesus seeking to save us.  But, like the lost lamb we must choose to follow our Master's voice when He calls.

Offline Randy S

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #32 on: Sun Aug 22, 2010 - 12:17:31 »
<<Adam couldnt cooperate with God, and He was created without sin.>>

That is untrue.  Adam had a choice, and he chose to rebel against God. If that were not true Adam would not have been guilty of sin.

Denying that we have free will is a major cop out. 

When Paul writes: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure. ", he's talking about this cooperation which leads to transformation.

Offline jonebgood

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Re: The ten commandments.
« Reply #33 on: Sun Aug 22, 2010 - 17:33:08 »
First of all "we" are not like Adam. Adam was born without sin. We were born with a sinful nature, Adam was not.  Perhaps I should have said after Adam sinned he refused to cooperate with God. He chose fig leaf salvation over Gods. He hid from God.  Romans clearly shows the relationship of sinful man with Holy God.  None of us are righteous, none of us seek after God, so clearly it is God who seeks us out.  Thank God that He comes to us and makes us righteous with His salvation through the cross of Christ. Without the Holy Spirit awakening our spirit within us we would be totally, eternally lost. This is the wonderous grace of our Lord.  Peace and grace to you.

 

     
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