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Author Topic: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.  (Read 5426 times)

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Offline Hobie

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Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:02:12 »
For some reason, the understanding of Christ pre-incarnate is very controversial, as people get confused with the "Title" which refer to Jesus. Now, Jesus is NOT a created Angel. He is fully Man, fully God, the Messiah, the Christ, and Lord and Saviour. Jesus is Eternal. Jesus was never created. Jesus is Eternal as the Father and Holy Spirit are Eternal. Jesus has always been and always will be.

Jesus is the angel of the LORD, the angel of God, the Archangel Michael, who appeared time and again in the Old Testament to speak directly to His people, prior to the incarnation.

Michael is just another "Title" to refer to Jesus just as Lamb and Lion is. Michael is not a created Angel. Michael the Archangel is only a name or title.

First let's look at the phrase 'angel of the LORD' in the story of Moses and the burning bush

Exodus 3:2
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.


Now look at the following verses and who is identified as being in the bush?

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said,*I am* the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Notice that the 'angel of the LORD' is really none other than God Himself and we have more...

Acts 7:29-31
King James Version (KJV)
29Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
30And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the LORD came unto him,

Then we have the following exchange...

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

and who but Christ says this...

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Jesus Christ had just identified Himself as the One who is the God of the Old Testament patriarchs, who was present in the burning bush speaking to Moses and the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant as seen in what happens.

John 8:57-59
King James Version (KJV)
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:12:18 by Hobie »

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Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:02:12 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #1 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:03:50 »
So we see that Jesus is the 'Angel of the Lord' and clearly is the great I AM, so now lets look at Michael the Archangel.

The name “Michael

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #1 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:03:50 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #2 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:04:56 »
Now Daniel was told by the angel Gabriel,“The angel prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief angels, came to help me… Now I have to go back and fight the guardian angel of Persia. After that the guardian angel of Greece will appear. There is no one to help me except Michael, Israel’s guardian angel. He is responsible for helping and defending me.

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #3 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:06:01 »
The word “archangel

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #3 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:06:01 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #4 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:07:42 »
Jesus Christ is the preeminent Angel of the Lord, the Head, the Chief Messenger of God, and is called “the angel of his presence

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #4 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:07:42 »



Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #5 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 12:08:53 »
Now lets look at the Second Coming, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states that at the second coming the Lord shall descend with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel. If he shouts with a voice it must be his voice. The Lord is the Archangel. Furthermore, this voice raises the dead and only God can raise the dead.

Paul frequently refers to Jesus as `Lord' in 1 Corinthians in such a way as to identify him as, or equate him with, the Lord Jehovah of the Old Testament.... Paul says that Christians hope to be found `blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ '(1:8; see also 5:5), whereas the Old Testament spoke of that judgment day as the day of Jehovah (e.g., Joel 1:15; 2:1, 11, 31).... Paul's language clearly refers to Jesus as if he were Jehovah.

Thus Jehovah shows Himself in the position as leader of the angelic host at the day of judgement, or second coming the Lord. It all comes together, Michael represents the pre-existent Jesus in angelic form, the Lord of the Host, before He came down, and as the One who gave Himself for salvation after sin came in, He also in scripture reveals Himself as the Messiah or Christ, as seen in the Second Coming.

cs80918

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #6 on: Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 13:05:26 »
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14


« Last Edit: Wed Dec 21, 2011 - 14:23:40 by cs80918 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #7 on: Thu Dec 22, 2011 - 09:14:41 »
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14



Scripture clearly shows that Christ is God, the great I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jehovah...but he also was the Angel of the Host, Michael the Arch Angel and there is no conflict here. This is his title when he threw out Satan and when he come to take the saints and put Satan away forever. Scripture shows this....

cs80918

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #8 on: Fri Dec 23, 2011 - 10:14:33 »
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14



Scripture clearly shows that Christ is God, the great I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jehovah...but he also was the Angel of the Host, Michael the Arch Angel and there is no conflict here. This is his title when he threw out Satan and when he come to take the saints and put Satan away forever. Scripture shows this....

Give me one verse in the bible that says "Jesus or Christ or God is Michael the Arch Angel"


Amo

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #9 on: Fri Dec 23, 2011 - 16:18:36 »
Quote
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14

This belief did not originate with the SDA church.  Nor are they the only ones who make this connection.

The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the preincarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in #Re 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel (for a full discussion see Hengstenberg, Offenbarung, I, 611-22, and an interesting survey in English by Dr. Douglas in Fairbairn’s BD).
John A. Lees (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)

ARCHANGEL

This world is only twice used in the Bible, #1Th 4:16 Jude 1:9. In this last passage it is applied to Michael, who, in #Da 10:13,21 12:1, is described as having a special charge of the Jewish nation, and in #Re 12:7-9 as the leader of an angelic army. So exalted are the position and offices ascribed to Michael, that many think the Messiah is meant. ( American Tract Society Bible Dictionary)

The Rabbinical traditions about Michael are very numerous. They oppose him constantly to Sammael, the accuser and enemy of Israel, as disputing for the soul of Moses; as bringing the ram the substitute for Isaac, which Sammael sought to keep back, etc., etc.: they give him the title of the "great high- priest in heaven," as well as that of the "great prince and conqueror;" and finally lay it down that "wherever Michael is said to have appeared, there the glory of the Shechinah is intended." It is clear that the sounder among them, in making such use of the name, intended to personify the Divine Power, and typify the Messiah (see Schoettgen, Hor. Hebr. i. 1079, 1119, ii. 8, 15, ed. Dresd. 1742).( Smiths Revised Bible Dictionary)









Offline FireSword

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #10 on: Fri Dec 23, 2011 - 16:38:18 »
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14



Scripture clearly shows that Christ is God, the great I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jehovah...but he also was the Angel of the Host, Michael the Arch Angel and there is no conflict here. This is his title when he threw out Satan and when he come to take the saints and put Satan away forever. Scripture shows this....

There are some connections between them both, but scripture calls Michael the prince, but Jesus is the king.

Also all thing are from Him and for Him. There is no evidence of Michael creating the universe.

cs80918

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #11 on: Sat Dec 24, 2011 - 00:08:08 »
Quote
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14

This belief did not originate with the SDA church.  Nor are they the only ones who make this connection.

The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the preincarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in #Re 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel (for a full discussion see Hengstenberg, Offenbarung, I, 611-22, and an interesting survey in English by Dr. Douglas in Fairbairn’s BD).
John A. Lees (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)

ARCHANGEL

This world is only twice used in the Bible, #1Th 4:16 Jude 1:9. In this last passage it is applied to Michael, who, in #Da 10:13,21 12:1, is described as having a special charge of the Jewish nation, and in #Re 12:7-9 as the leader of an angelic army. So exalted are the position and offices ascribed to Michael, that many think the Messiah is meant. ( American Tract Society Bible Dictionary)

The Rabbinical traditions about Michael are very numerous. They oppose him constantly to Sammael, the accuser and enemy of Israel, as disputing for the soul of Moses; as bringing the ram the substitute for Isaac, which Sammael sought to keep back, etc., etc.: they give him the title of the "great high- priest in heaven," as well as that of the "great prince and conqueror;" and finally lay it down that "wherever Michael is said to have appeared, there the glory of the Shechinah is intended." It is clear that the sounder among them, in making such use of the name, intended to personify the Divine Power, and typify the Messiah (see Schoettgen, Hor. Hebr. i. 1079, 1119, ii. 8, 15, ed. Dresd. 1742).( Smiths Revised Bible Dictionary)










I know it wasn't started in the 7th day church, but I was trying to say it was a doctrine of the 7th day adventist from the beginning.  Also, the 7th day adventist use to deny the deity of Jesus, they called him Michael the Arch Angel, because they didn't think he was God.


Amo

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #12 on: Sat Dec 24, 2011 - 09:38:50 »
Quote
There are some connections between them both, but scripture calls Michael the prince, but Jesus is the king.

Also all thing are from Him and for Him. There is no evidence of Michael creating the universe.

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV)

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Dan 9:25 (KJV)

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: Dan 12:1 (KJV)

14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. Acts 3:14-15 (KJV)

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Acts 5:31 (KJV)



Amo

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #13 on: Sat Dec 24, 2011 - 09:49:14 »
Quote
I know it wasn't started in the 7th day church, but I was trying to say it was a doctrine of the 7th day adventist from the beginning.  Also, the 7th day adventist use to deny the deity of Jesus, they called him Michael the Arch Angel, because they didn't think he was God.

You sure are loose with the facts.  At the beginning of the SDA denomination, all the members came from other denominations, or no denomination at all.  Thus for a while, varying views existed among the members.  There were a few, who believed Christ was a created being.  This view however, was corrected by many, including one of your favorites, EGW.  Observe the following -

The Youth’s Instructor, June 21, 1900, par. 2


Not one of the angels could have become surety for the human race: their life is God’s; they could not surrender it. The angels all wear the yoke of obedience. They are the appointed messengers of Him who is the commander of all heaven. But Christ is equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. He could pay the ransom for man’s freedom. He is the eternal, self-existing Son, on whom no yoke had come; and when God asked, “Whom shall I send?

cs80918

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #14 on: Sat Dec 24, 2011 - 19:26:48 »
Amos- This get some things settled.  Who were the founders of the SDA?  That formed the church within the first 5 years of its existence?

Amo

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #15 on: Sun Dec 25, 2011 - 06:12:51 »
Quote
Amos- This get some things settled.  Who were the founders of the SDA?  That formed the church within the first 5 years of its existence?

I don't know who Amos is, but I'll address the above after more clarification.  Do you want to know who literally organized the denomination which officially existed in 1863, or those who founded the actual doctrines upon which it stands?  There is a big difference between the two.

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #16 on: Sun Dec 25, 2011 - 15:07:07 »
Just wanted to point out that Michael is ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES
(dan 10:13)

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #17 on: Wed Dec 28, 2011 - 05:10:11 »
Quote
No, you are mistaken Jesus is not Michael the Archangel.

The concept of Michael the Archangel being Jesus started in the 7th day church when the 7th day Adventist church was being founded, when they denied the deity of Jesus.


"For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'Thou art My Son, today I have begotten thee?'"  Hebrews 1:5

"But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
 Hebrews 1:8a


But to which of the angels has He ever said, 'Sit at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?' Are they [the angels] not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"  Hebrews 1:13-14

This belief did not originate with the SDA church.  Nor are they the only ones who make this connection.

The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the preincarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the "child" and the archangel in #Re 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in Daniel (for a full discussion see Hengstenberg, Offenbarung, I, 611-22, and an interesting survey in English by Dr. Douglas in Fairbairn’s BD).
John A. Lees (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)

ARCHANGEL

This world is only twice used in the Bible, #1Th 4:16 Jude 1:9. In this last passage it is applied to Michael, who, in #Da 10:13,21 12:1, is described as having a special charge of the Jewish nation, and in #Re 12:7-9 as the leader of an angelic army. So exalted are the position and offices ascribed to Michael, that many think the Messiah is meant. ( American Tract Society Bible Dictionary)

The Rabbinical traditions about Michael are very numerous. They oppose him constantly to Sammael, the accuser and enemy of Israel, as disputing for the soul of Moses; as bringing the ram the substitute for Isaac, which Sammael sought to keep back, etc., etc.: they give him the title of the "great high- priest in heaven," as well as that of the "great prince and conqueror;" and finally lay it down that "wherever Michael is said to have appeared, there the glory of the Shechinah is intended." It is clear that the sounder among them, in making such use of the name, intended to personify the Divine Power, and typify the Messiah (see Schoettgen, Hor. Hebr. i. 1079, 1119, ii. 8, 15, ed. Dresd. 1742).( Smiths Revised Bible Dictionary)










I know it wasn't started in the 7th day church, but I was trying to say it was a doctrine of the 7th day adventist from the beginning.  Also, the 7th day adventist use to deny the deity of Jesus, they called him Michael the Arch Angel, because they didn't think he was God.


Not even close, the Jews believed in Michael the Archangel, the early church and the Protestant Reformation had it, and the church members that formed the Adventist church brought it or accepted it when they came in and the church never has in any way denied the deity of Jesus, so study before making such claims.

Offline Sinead

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #18 on: Wed Dec 28, 2011 - 06:10:30 »
Just wanted to point out that Michael is ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES
(dan 10:13)

I agree, he is. He is, from what I understand the highest angel God has created. It is he who will throw satan into the bottomless pit.
When the archangel Michael confronted satan he dared not bring an accusation against him because he knows satan's power.
If Michael was really Jesus then this wouldn't have happened. Satan is scared of Jesus, not the other way around.

Offline Hobie

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #19 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 05:28:01 »
Just wanted to point out that Michael is ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES
(dan 10:13)
and if you take the rest of the verses you see who Michael is, read your scripture...

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #20 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 13:30:12 »
Just wanted to point out that Michael is ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES
(dan 10:13)
and if you take the rest of the verses you see who Michael is, read your scripture...

No Christ is not one of the chief of the princes. He is the King. Your theology kind of falls apart with that verse, especially if we're talking about the Logos pre-incarnate.

All subservient titles of the Logos all come from His capacity as the incarnate God. In His status as pre-incarnate God He only has one subservient title "Son". That title does not necessarily deal with heierachy as much as it deals with the divine generation and how God the Father begot God the Son.

So if we're beholding the Logos before the miracle of the Incarnation, He would not be "one of the chief princes".

It's very simple to see that Christ pre-incarnate is not Michael. To insist upon such is to simultaneously claim that Sacred Scripture teaches us that the Wisdom of God (Logos) is but one of some other pre-incarnate king's princes. That's a big negative.

P.S.

The appropriate translation for Michael is not "one who is God" it is "one who is like God".

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #21 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 13:33:42 »
Daniel 10:13
`And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia;

Offline djconklin

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #22 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 14:00:25 »
"The earlier Protestant scholars usually identified Michael with the pre-incarnate Christ, finding support for their view, not only in the juxtaposition of the 'child' and the archangel in Rev 12, but also in the attributes ascribed to him in D[a]n[iel]l ." -- John A. Lees, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, 1930, Vol. 3, page 2048.

Concerning Michael as recorded in Daniel 12:1 John Calvin states:

"The twelfth chapter commenced, as we stated in yesterday's Lecture, with the angel's prediction as to the future state of the Church after the manifestation of Christ It was to be subject to many miseries, and hence this passage would soothe the sorrow of Daniel, and of all the pious, as he still promises safety to the Church through the help of God. Daniel therefore represented Michael as the guardian of the Church, and God had enjoined this duty upon Christ, as we learn from the 10th chapter of John, (John 10:28, 29.) As we stated yesterday, Michael may mean an angel; but I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ, because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people." -- J. Calvin, COMMENTARIES ON THE BOOK OF THE PROPHET DANIEL, trans. T. Myers (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1979), vol. 2 p. 369.
http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol25/htm/vii.htm

Theodore Beza:
Daniel 10:13- Even though God could by one angel destroy all the world, yet to assure his children of his love he sends forth double power, even Michael, that is, Christ Jesus the head of angels.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GenevaStudyBible/gen.cgi?book=da&chapter=010.
Daniel 12:1 - The angel here notes two things: first that the Church will be in great affliction and trouble at Christ's coming, and next that God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GenevaStudyBible/gen.cgi?book=da&chapter=012

John Wesley:
Daniel 10:13 Withstood me - God suffered the wicked counsels of Cambyses to take place awhile; but Daniel by his prayers, and the angel by his power, overcame him at last: and this very thing laid a foundation of the ruin of the Persian monarchies. Michael - Michael here is commonly supposed to mean Christ. I remained - To counter - work their designs against the people of God.
Daniel 10:21 - Michael - Christ alone is the protector of his church, when all the princes of the earth desert or oppose it.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/WesleysExplanatoryNotes/wes.cgi?book=da&chapter=010.
Daniel 12:1 - For the children - The meaning seems to be, as after the death of Antiochus the Jews had some deliverance, so there will be yet a greater deliverance to the people of God, when Michael your prince, the Messiah shall appear for your salvation.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/WesleysExplanatoryNotes/wes.cgi?book=da&chapter=012

Adam Clarke:
But lo, Michael
Daniel 10:13 - Gabriel, who speaks, did not leave Cyrus till Michael came to take his place. Michael, he who is like God, sometimes appears to signify the Messiah, at other times the highest or chief archangel. Indeed there is no archangel mentioned in the whole Scripture but this one. See Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7.
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=da&chapter=10&verse=13#Da10_13

John Gill:
Daniel 10:13 - but, lo, Michael one of the chief Princes, came to help me; called in the New Testament an Archangel, the Prince of angels, the Head of all principality and power; and is no other than Christ the Son of God, an uncreated Angel; who is "one", or "the first of the chief Princes" {x}, superior to angels, in nature, name, and office.
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=da&chapter=10&verse=13
Daniel 10:21 - and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your Prince; Christ the Prince of the kings of the earth, he was the Prince, Protector, and Guardian of the people of the Jews; he is the Angel that went before them in the wilderness, and guarded them in it, and guided them into the land of Canaan
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=da&chapter=010&verse=021
Daniel 12:1 - The Archangel, who has all the angels of heaven under him, and at his command, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ; who is as God
http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=da&chapter=012&verse=001

Matthew Henry:
Daniel 12:1 - The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Rev. 1:5.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryComplete/mhc-com.cgi?book=da&chapter=012

"There seems good reason for regarding Michael as the Messiah. Such was the opinion of the best among the ancient Jews.... With this all the Bible representations of Michael agree. He appears as the Great Prince who standeth for Israel (Dan. xii. I), and he is called "the Prince of Israel" (Dan. x. 21). -- William L. Alexander, ed., A CYCLOPEDIA OF BIBLICAL LITERATURE, originally edited by John Kitto, 3d ed. (Edinburgh: A & C Black, 1886). vol. 3, p. 158.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #23 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 15:25:40 »
The earliest Protestant scholars meaning some guys 1600 years removed from the Early Church right? These guys 1600 years removed from the Early Church came up with this speculation yes?

K. Thought so.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #24 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 07:42:27 »
That entire list of commentators are wrong.

And I would LOVE to see exactly WHO Matthew Henry was referring to when he said " Such was the opinion of the best among the ancient Jews.... " What were HIS sources?

Offline djconklin

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #25 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 08:27:40 »
The earliest Protestant scholars meaning some guys 1600 years removed from the Early Church right? These guys 1600 years removed from the Early Church came up with this speculation yes?

K. Thought so.
Who said it was speculation?

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #26 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 08:29:12 »
>That entire list of commentators are wrong.

Don't you just love that detailed analysis and proof?  Why it just takes your breath away!  Stunning and unbelievable would be too weak to describe the majesty of it all.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #27 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 09:42:39 »
>That entire list of commentators are wrong.

Don't you just love that detailed analysis and proof?  Why it just takes your breath away!  Stunning and unbelievable would be too weak to describe the majesty of it all.
I have read a lot of Jewish commentary from the first century.  I have NEVER seen anything that supports this.

I see no scripture to support this in its face value meaning.

But you ask for proof - how do you prove a negative?

Offline djconklin

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #28 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 09:44:31 »
>I have read a lot of Jewish commentary from the first century.

And we have loads of proof about that claim too.

You positively claimed that the commentators were wrong: where's your proof?

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #29 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 11:00:25 »
1. It is specualtion. New speculation at that.

2. I provided a detailed analysis that was ignored so if I were DaveW I probably would've responded in the same way.

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #30 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 11:05:40 »
>2. I provided a detailed analysis that was ignored

I've never seen it, so how could I ignore it?  Are you always in the habit of making things up as you go along?

Offline djconklin

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #31 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 11:08:09 »
"Theodore Beza:
Daniel 10:13- Even though God could by one angel destroy all the world, yet to assure his children of his love he sends forth double power, even Michael, that is, Christ Jesus the head of angels.

Daniel 12:1 - The angel here notes two things: first that the Church will be in great affliction and trouble at Christ's coming, and next that God will send his angel to deliver it, whom he here calls Michael, meaning Christ, who is proclaimed by the preaching of the Gospel."

>I see no scripture to support this in its face value meaning.

The above was his comment on Dan. 10:13 and then for Dan. 12:1.

"John Gill:
Daniel 10:13 - but, lo, Michael one of the chief Princes, came to help me; called in the New Testament an Archangel, the Prince of angels, the Head of all principality and power; and is no other than Christ the Son of God, an uncreated Angel; who is "one", or "the first of the chief Princes" {x}, superior to angels, in nature, name, and office."

The above is part of his exposition on Dan. 10:13.

Offline djconklin

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #32 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 11:15:46 »
>"There seems good reason for regarding Michael as the Messiah. Such was the opinion of the best among the ancient Jews.... With this all the Bible representations of Michael agree. He appears as the Great Prince who standeth for Israel (Dan. xii. I), and he is called "the Prince of Israel" (Dan. x. 21). -- William L. Alexander, ed., A CYCLOPEDIA OF BIBLICAL LITERATURE, originally edited by John Kitto, 3d ed. (Edinburgh: A & C Black, 1886). vol. 3, p. 158.

Full article with references: http://books.google.com/books?id=7DAHAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA158&dq=%22There+seems+good+reason+for+regarding+Michael+as+the+Messiah.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AXIMT5XiF4aEsAL7iNzzBQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22There%20seems%20good%20reason%20for%20regarding%20Michael%20as%20the%20Messiah.%22&f=false

Offline DaveW

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #33 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 11:19:18 »
http://jhom.com/topics/angels/talmud_intro.htm
Quote
Despite the deep-rooted belief in angels among the Jews of the Talmudic period and the elaborate attention to angels in the Talmud the rabbis were careful not to approve their worship. There is evidence that attempts were made to weaken faith in them and belittle their importance. In particular it was urged that man, when he is God-fearing, is superior to the angels.



http://jhom.com/topics/angels/talmud_fourangels.htm
Quote
At the head of the angelogical system described in rabbinic literature are four archangels, corresponding to the four divisions of the army of Israel as described in Numbers 2: "As the Holy One blessed be He created four winds (directions) and four banners (for Israel's army), so also did He make four angels to surround His Throne — Michael, Gabriel, Uriel and Raphael. Michael is on its right, corresponding to the tribe of Reuben; Uriel on its left, corresponding to the tribe of Dan, which was located in the north; Gabriel in front, corresponding to the tribe of Judah as well as Moses and Aaron who were in the east; and Raphael in the rare, corresponding to the tribe of Epharim which was in the west."[1]

Numbers Rabbah 2:10



http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Theology/God/About_God/Angels.shtml
Quote
References to angels are found throughout the Bible but with the exception of Gabriel (Daniel 8:16; 9:21) and Michael (Daniel 13; 12:1) in the late book of Daniel, the angels in the Bible have no name. When Manoah asks the angel to tell him his name, the angel replies that it is secret (Judges 13:17-18). The inter­esting observation is found in the Talmud that, in fact, the names of the angels came into the possession of the Jews from Babylon. The word el appended to an angel's name means God; thus Gabriel (from gevurah, "power") means "power from God."
In the later Jewish tradition the angel Michael is the angel of mercy; Gabriel the angel of justice; Raphael the angel of healing; and Uriel the angel of illumination.

.....

Angels are never the objects of worship. This is severely condemned by the rabbis as idolatry. The Palestinian Talmud remarks that there is no need for Jews to pray to God through the mediation of the angels, but in the Babylonian Talmud it is implied that one of the angelic functions is to bring the prayers of Israel to the throne of God. Some later rabbis disapproved of the few passages in the liturgy in which angels are invoked, but others defended these prayers on the grounds that the angels are only entreated to be the messengers of Israel as they are the messengers of God.



http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6450-gabriel
Quote
Michael and Gabriel often work together (see Pes. 55a; Lüken, l.c. p. 86, note 1; ib. p. 109, bottom; Origen, "Contra Celsum," viii. 13; and elsewhere), but while Michael, as the guardian angel of Israel and high priest of heaven, is more occupied in heaven, Gabriel is the messenger of God, who executes God's will on earth. In heaven Gabriel is set over the serpents, and over paradise and the cherubim (Enoch, xx.). Each of the four divisions of the twelve tribes of Israel had its guardian angel, namely, Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, and Raphael respectively (Num. R. ii. 10). Michael and Gabriel defend Israel against its accusers (Yalḳ., Ḥadash, 67b), and pray in general for the human race and for Israel's deliverance from captivity ("Apoc. Pauli," in Lüken, l.c. p. 86, note 4; Jellinek, l.c. v. 127). They defend Israel when God orders the Temple to be burned (Yalḳ. ii., No. 1009). Gabriel destroys the bastards (Enoch, x. 9); with the other three arch-angels he seizes Semyaza and his companions and casts them into the fire (Enoch, liv. 6). He will make war upon the leviathan (B. B. 74b). He leads the soul into the body of the pious (Yalḳ., Ḥadash, 68b, No. 65).

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.
« Reply #34 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 11:33:48 »
Just wanted to point out that Michael is ONE of the CHIEF PRINCES
(dan 10:13)
and if you take the rest of the verses you see who Michael is, read your scripture...

No Christ is not one of the chief of the princes. He is the King. Your theology kind of falls apart with that verse, especially if we're talking about the Logos pre-incarnate.

All subservient titles of the Logos all come from His capacity as the incarnate God. In His status as pre-incarnate God He only has one subservient title "Son". That title does not necessarily deal with heierachy as much as it deals with the divine generation and how God the Father begot God the Son.

So if we're beholding the Logos before the miracle of the Incarnation, He would not be "one of the chief princes".

It's very simple to see that Christ pre-incarnate is not Michael. To insist upon such is to simultaneously claim that Sacred Scripture teaches us that the Wisdom of God (Logos) is but one of some other pre-incarnate king's princes. That's a big negative.

P.S.

The appropriate translation for Michael is not "one who is God" it is "one who is like God".

 

     
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