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Author Topic: The True Sabbath  (Read 1648 times)

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immune

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The True Sabbath
« on: January 02, 2010, 08:29:24 AM »
What day of the week is the Sabbath? this is a question i believe has caused divisions across christianity.
The answer may be hidden in Genesis 1v14-19

14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15.And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16.And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17.And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The first full moon was on the fourth day since beginning of creation. and on the third day after the first full moon, God rested from all his work: that is on the seventh day.  The lunar cycle is 29.53059 days, and since time memorial the third day after every new full moon has been on every single day. Arguments that the moon may have been on a different phase do not make a difference. whatever moon phase that might have been when God rested on the seventh day, the same moon phase has been on every day of the week. Now the third day after creation of the sun and moon is the Sabbath. The third day after the first sun and the first new moon is the Sabbath.

Hebrews 4
7. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
   "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
8. For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
9. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
10. for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
11. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

'Today' not wednesday,thursday,friday,saturday,sunday,monday,tuesday.

Hebrews 4v3
Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said

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The True Sabbath
« on: January 02, 2010, 08:29:24 AM »

Amo

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2010, 03:19:35 PM »
Quote
What day of the week is the Sabbath? this is a question i believe has caused divisions across christianity.
The answer may be hidden in Genesis 1v14-19

14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15.And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16.And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17.And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The first full moon was on the fourth day since beginning of creation. and on the third day after the first full moon, God rested from all his work: that is on the seventh day.  The lunar cycle is 29.53059 days, and since time memorial the third day after every new full moon has been on every single day. Arguments that the moon may have been on a different phase do not make a difference. whatever moon phase that might have been when God rested on the seventh day, the same moon phase has been on every day of the week. Now the third day after creation of the sun and moon is the Sabbath. The third day after the first sun and the first new moon is the Sabbath.

Hebrews 4
7. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
   "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
8. For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
9. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
10. for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
11. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

'Today' not wednesday,thursday,friday,saturday,sunday,monday,tuesday.

Hebrews 4v3
Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said

There seems to be no end to what people will come up with in order to deny a simple thus saith the Lord.  Of course the old saying applies well, what a tangled web we weave, when at first we plan to deceive.  Or something like that anyway. 

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2010, 03:19:35 PM »

immune

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2010, 04:22:12 PM »
I agree with you. My friends have a saying: the Bible is rich in faith, hence so many faiths. So many interpretations, so many perceived truths. what is the truth? we can only search for it till we find it through grace.

I do not deny that the bible says thus saith the Lord. The bible also does not dispute that God rested on the third day after he created the first full moon. The command to keep the sabbath does not specify which day is the sabbath but the seventh day. We can search for this day through scripture, prophesies, history etc. I decided to search for it in Genesis chapter 1 because the Sabbath we know today is founded on the day that God rested.

Now about Hebrews verse, that is a discussion for another day

Amo

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 09:10:12 PM »
Quote
I agree with you. My friends have a saying: the Bible is rich in faith, hence so many faiths. So many interpretations, so many perceived truths. what is the truth? we can only search for it till we find it through grace.

I do not deny that the bible says thus saith the Lord. The bible also does not dispute that God rested on the third day after he created the first full moon. The command to keep the sabbath does not specify which day is the sabbath but the seventh day. We can search for this day through scripture, prophesies, history etc. I decided to search for it in Genesis chapter 1 because the Sabbath we know today is founded on the day that God rested.

Now about Hebrews verse, that is a discussion for another day

The Jews are a living record of which day the seventh day is.  They have been keeping the Sabbath since the command to do so directly from the mouth of God, being also written in stone with His finger.  Do you suppose God messed up and told them the wrong day?

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 09:10:12 PM »

immune

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2010, 08:55:48 AM »

The Jews are a living record of which day the seventh day is.  They have been keeping the Sabbath since the command to do so directly from the mouth of God, being also written in stone with His finger.  Do you suppose God messed up and told them the wrong day?


No disrespect but the Jews are not a living record of which day the seventh day is. However, the word of God is a living record of such a day. Now lets look at a very important day called the day of atonement in Leviticus 16 and 23:26-32

 26 The LORD said to Moses, 27 "The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present an offering made to the LORD by fire... Do no work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the LORD your God...31 You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. 32 It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."

This day of atonement last year in 2009 began on Sunday September 27 and ended at nightfall on Monday September 28. And on this day is the Sabbath. It has been on every single day. The 10th day is 7 days from the third day of the month ( of course if that third day is a third day from the full moon or new moon)

see an example below of when this day was and will be
Jewish Year 5769: sunset October 8, 2008 - nightfall October 9, 2008
Jewish Year 5770: sunset September 27, 2009 - nightfall September 28, 2009
Jewish Year 5771: sunset September 17, 2010 - nightfall September 18, 2010
Jewish Year 5772: sunset October 7, 2011 - nightfall October 8, 2011
Jewish Year 5773: sunset September 25, 2012 - nightfall September 26, 2012

As you said God gave the commandment. He didn't mess up. Its our understanding and interpretation of his commands that misses the truth sometimes. 

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2010, 08:55:48 AM »



Amo

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2010, 09:11:08 AM »
Quote
No disrespect but the Jews are not a living record of which day the seventh day is. However, the word of God is a living record of such a day. Now lets look at a very important day called the day of atonement in Leviticus 16 and 23:26-32

 26 The LORD said to Moses, 27 "The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves, and present an offering made to the LORD by fire... Do no work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the LORD your God...31 You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. 32 It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."

This day of atonement last year in 2009 began on Sunday September 27 and ended at nightfall on Monday September 28. And on this day is the Sabbath. It has been on every single day. The 10th day is 7 days from the third day of the month ( of course if that third day is a third day from the full moon or new moon)

see an example below of when this day was and will be
Jewish Year 5769: sunset October 8, 2008 - nightfall October 9, 2008
Jewish Year 5770: sunset September 27, 2009 - nightfall September 28, 2009
Jewish Year 5771: sunset September 17, 2010 - nightfall September 18, 2010
Jewish Year 5772: sunset October 7, 2011 - nightfall October 8, 2011
Jewish Year 5773: sunset September 25, 2012 - nightfall September 26, 2012

As you said God gave the commandment. He didn't mess up. Its our understanding and interpretation of his commands that misses the truth sometimes.

You may of course believe whatever you want.  Your reasoning is to twisted, and contradicts to much plain scriptural testimony, for me to waste time with.  You are simply looking for yet another invented reason to reject the fourth commandment.  You are free to do so immune, without having to concoct some kind of supposed biblical evidence in support of it.  God will not force any of His commandments upon anyone.  This world is proof positive of the same.  Of course, there is the problem of dealing with the consequences of the same.

Do you suppose God neglected that which you are sharing with us in the scriptures, waiting for you to share it with us now?  Are you a prophet of God with new light for us regarding the fourth commandment?  Did He allow so many to observe the seventh day Sabbath for so long wrongly until now, when you would reveal the truth of the matter to us?

immune

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 09:39:27 AM »
Do you suppose God neglected that which you are sharing with us in the scriptures, waiting for you to share it with us now?  Are you a prophet of God with new light for us regarding the fourth commandment?  Did He allow so many to observe the seventh day Sabbath for so long wrongly until now, when you would reveal the truth of the matter to us?

It would help me very much if you could offer a point of view of the scriptures i wrote so i can understand more.  finding fault with my reasoning doesn't build me up but discussing the scriptures with another take would really help. I am on a quest to know and understand.

Amo

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 01:48:55 PM »
Quote
It would help me very much if you could offer a point of view of the scriptures i wrote so i can understand more.  finding fault with my reasoning doesn't build me up but discussing the scriptures with another take would really help. I am on a quest to know and understand.

There is nothing in scripture about what you are saying.  The fact that the day of atonement was considered a sabbath, is not said anywhere to have anything to so with replacing the seventh day Sabbath of the fourth commandment.  There are other ceremonial sabbaths mentioned in scripture also, none of which were meant to replace the seventh day Sabbath of the fourth commandment.  If you are saying this is so, then present some scriptural proof for the same, other than simply saying that the day of atonement was considered a sabbath.  That fact alone is certainly not enough to annul God's word concerning the seventh day in the fourth commandment. 

If you have no scriptural authority for your assumption, then it is just that, an assumption without any proof.  Unless of course you are a prophet with some kind of extra biblical new light to share with us.  Even so, what you teach cannot contradict what scripture has already plainly expressed as truth.  If the bible actually says somewhere that there is no more seventh day Sabbath because the day of atonement was also considered a sabbath, please present those scriptures to be examined.  If not, why assume one scripture negates another?

immune

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Re: The True Sabbath
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2010, 04:17:41 PM »
There is nothing in scripture about what you are saying.  The fact that the day of atonement was considered a sabbath, is not said anywhere to have anything to so with replacing the seventh day Sabbath of the fourth commandment.  There are other ceremonial sabbaths mentioned in scripture also, none of which were meant to replace the seventh day Sabbath of the fourth commandment.  If you are saying this is so, then present some scriptural proof for the same, other than simply saying that the day of atonement was considered a sabbath.  That fact alone is certainly not enough to annul God's word concerning the seventh day in the fourth commandment. 

Is the command for the day of atonement any less than the fourth commandment? Is the commandment for the forgiveness of sins any less than the 10 commandments because it is not listed in the 10 commandments? 

The command for a Sabbath rest on the seventh day was first given in Exodus 16 before the 10 commandments were first given.

Exodus 16:23
He said to them, "This is what the LORD commanded: 'Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD..."

How is the command of Exodus 16v23-25 any less than the fourth commandment to remember the Sabbath day given in Exodus 20v8-11? The Lord said "Remember the Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy..." He said they should 'remember' because he had already given them the command before in Exodus 16.

we also know from exodus 16 that the first Sabbath that the Israelites rested on was on the 22nd day of the second month since their exodus from egypt.  It would be interesting to find out what day this was.

Also God commands people to labor for six days and rest on the seventh day. in Exodus 20v8-11, if i were to have a day of atonement sabbath and the seventh day sabbath both in 1 week, would it be a sin to labor for the next six days and rest on the seventh? Exodus 20v8-11 does not say i should rest on the seventh day of the week.