Question for SDA forum members

[djconklin]

>you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Condemn the whole hospital because some doctors and nurses performed an abortion?

Yep.  Supposedly a "Christian" institution, and a "Christian" church who pooh-pooh abortion.  It is disgusting.

On a local news TV show they interviewed a woman who when she was pregnant she lost something like a third of her weight.  Her pregnancy was literally killing her.  Would you say "Tough luck!"?

I can see banning abortions for those who simply want one.  But, not when there is a bona fide medical emergency.  I'm not going to play "high and mighty, I got my ideals to live by--too bad if it kills you."  Those are the people who are worse than disgusting--they are cold-blooded murderers.  And you know what God will do with them.

They aren't cold-blooded murderers, they don't want to play God.  Some folks want to play God and decide who to kill if things don't go exactly as planned.  And please, give me a break, instances where there are medical emergencies are few and far between.  These instances are used to excuse sickening behavior, and condoning and being complicit in a grave sin by a supposedly "Christian" hospital and church.

If they are not willing to save a woman who is dying because her pregancy is killing here then we need to call a spade by its rightful name: they are cold-blooded killers.

I've never met a doctor who wanted to play God.  Given the lack of names which we can contact I doubt you know of any either--you are guessing as to their motives.  They could be doing abortions for the money, or they feel that they are doing a service, or they wish to avoid having the woman going to someone who is incompetent and kills the woman in a botched abortion.

You are correct that it is highly doubtful that most abortions are done because of a medical emergency.  But, since you didn't qualify your stance on abortion I can bring it up.  If you had mentioned it at the beginning instead of judging the whole hospital because of what a few doctors are doing (and you continued your unbiblical practice of judging others), then I wouldn't have brought it up.

A real medical emergency is NOT an excuse.  It may be used by some as a cover, but that doesn't mean that there NEVER is an emergency.  Those who protest abortions have to stop acting as if there was never, ever a need for an abortion.

[Bocephus]

>you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Condemn the whole hospital because some doctors and nurses performed an abortion?

Yep.  Supposedly a "Christian" institution, and a "Christian" church who pooh-pooh abortion.  It is disgusting.

On a local news TV show they interviewed a woman who when she was pregnant she lost something like a third of her weight.  Her pregnancy was literally killing her.  Would you say "Tough luck!"?

I can see banning abortions for those who simply want one.  But, not when there is a bona fide medical emergency.  I'm not going to play "high and mighty, I got my ideals to live by--too bad if it kills you."  Those are the people who are worse than disgusting--they are cold-blooded murderers.  And you know what God will do with them.

They aren't cold-blooded murderers, they don't want to play God.  Some folks want to play God and decide who to kill if things don't go exactly as planned.  And please, give me a break, instances where there are medical emergencies are few and far between.  These instances are used to excuse sickening behavior, and condoning and being complicit in a grave sin by a supposedly "Christian" hospital and church.

If they are not willing to save a woman who is dying because her pregancy is killing here then we need to call a spade by its rightful name: they are cold-blooded killers.

I've never met a doctor who wanted to play God.  Given the lack of names which we can contact I doubt you know of any either--you are guessing as to their motives.  They could be doing abortions for the money, or they feel that they are doing a service, or they wish to avoid having the woman going to someone who is incompetent and kills the woman in a botched abortion.

You are correct that it is highly doubtful that most abortions are done because of a medical emergency.  But, since you didn't qualify your stance on abortion I can bring it up.  If you had mentioned it at the beginning instead of judging the whole hospital because of what a few doctors are doing (and you continued your unbiblical practice of judging others), then I wouldn't have brought it up.

A real medical emergency is NOT an excuse.  It may be used by some as a cover, but that doesn't mean that there NEVER is an emergency.  Those who protest abortions have to stop acting as if there was never, ever a need for an abortion.

My stance on abortion:

Baby 100% will not survive and will hurt life of mother:  Yes.

All other cases, 100% no.

[Bocephus]

A "Christian" hospital and "Christian" church should not allow, perform, or justify the taking of life of one made in the very image of God.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

>you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Condemn the whole hospital because some doctors and nurses performed an abortion?

I'm not talking about every employee individually here.  I'm talking about the hospital as a business entity.  They could have made teh business decision not to perform abortions.

David, I have no problem with therapeutic abortions.

[djconklin]

A "Christian" hospital and "Christian" church should not allow, perform, or justify the taking of life of one made in the very image of God.

  When the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother, one of the two is going to die, or both will.  What will you do?

[djconklin]

>you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Condemn the whole hospital because some doctors and nurses performed an abortion?

I'm not talking about every employee individually here.  I'm talking about the hospital as a business entity.  They could have made teh business decision not to perform abortions.

David, I have no problem with therapeutic abortions.

Your last two sentences are contradictory.  Either will not perform any abortions or you will perform abortions, but only those which are therpeutically necessary.

[djconklin]

My stance on abortion:

Baby 100% will not survive and will hurt life of mother:  Yes.

All other cases, 100% no.

Your statemnets are too cryptic.  It seems like you are saying that if a pregnancy endangers the life of the mother and the child you'd let both die?

[Bocephus]

My stance on abortion:

Baby 100% will not survive and will hurt life of mother:  Yes.

All other cases, 100% no.

Your statemnets are too cryptic.  It seems like you are saying that if a pregnancy endangers the life of the mother and the child you'd let both die?

Not cryptic at all.

Anyone is free to have any humanistic outlook on this issue they want.  However, a "Christian" church should not be involved in the taking of lives made in the very image of God.

[djconklin]

>However, a "Christian" church should not be involved in the taking of lives made in the very image of God.

So, if a pregnancy is killing the mother you won't abort, right?  Therefore you end up killing two people just so you won't have to kill one.

[Bocephus]

>However, a "Christian" church should not be involved in the taking of lives made in the very image of God.

So, if a pregnancy is killing the mother you won't abort, right?  Therefore you end up killing two people just so you won't have to kill one.

I will not kill.

[djconklin]

>However, a "Christian" church should not be involved in the taking of lives made in the very image of God.

So, if a pregnancy is killing the mother you won't abort, right?  Therefore you end up killing two people just so you won't have to kill one.

I will not kill.

Now, you are clear.  If there is a medical emergency in the pregnancy that is killing the mother, you'd kill both.

I don't believe in abortion simply as a matter of choice.  But, if a pregnancy is killing the mother, I'd fight like a junk yard dog to save both.  I'd pray like crazy and hold off to the last possible moment. But if I can't, I'm not going to kill both--that is cold-blooded murder, pure and simple.  God very explicitly said: Thou shalt not murder.  And the wages of sin is death.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

>you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Condemn the whole hospital because some doctors and nurses performed an abortion?

I'm not talking about every employee individually here.  I'm talking about the hospital as a business entity.  They could have made teh business decision not to perform abortions.

David, I have no problem with therapeutic abortions.

Your last two sentences are contradictory.  Either will not perform any abortions or you will perform abortions, but only those which are therpeutically necessary.

A therapeutic abortion is an abortion that is performed to save the life of the mother.

If I'm self-contradicting, you're right beside me with your last post. 

[current occupant]

Would a person be able to buy a ham sandwich from the cafeteria while waiting for a friend to have an abortion in the same SDA run hospital?

SDA run hospitals  are not really that different from any other hospital.  Most of the employees are not even Adventists, including administrators.  They have to obey all the guidelines and accreditation procedures like many other hospitals in the U.S.

If SDA run hospitals are not that different from any other hospital, why have them at all?


Are some of those guidelines and accreditation procedures inclusive of performing abortions?

[current occupant]

Or, in the absence of a good answer, just have stayed quiet.

Or, better yet, instead of trying to disassociate the SDA denomination from their hospitals with a half measure, you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Unless of course you believe in abortion?

Jarrod, I work in a hospital and I have worked in an SDA hospital too.  Basically there is no difference.  Except maybe the mission statements and a few pictures.  I am not trying to justify abortions.  If abortion is wrong then is wrong no matter where you do it.  As far as I know the SDA Church is against abortions, unless they are therapeutic.

Davidandme: Have you even read your own churches Guideline for Abortion?  Where is the word ‘therapeutic’ mentioned?  maybe I missed it??

[current occupant]

Or, in the absence of a good answer, just have stayed quiet.

Or, better yet, instead of trying to disassociate the SDA denomination from their hospitals with a half measure, you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Unless of course you believe in abortion?

Jarrod, I work in a hospital and I have worked in an SDA hospital too.  Basically there is no difference.  Except maybe the mission statements and a few pictures.  I am not trying to justify abortions.  If abortion is wrong then is wrong no matter where you do it.  As far as I know the SDA Church is against abortions, unless they are therapeutic.

"unless they are therapeutic"

Or, in the absence of a good answer, just have stayed quiet.

Or, better yet, instead of trying to disassociate the SDA denomination from their hospitals with a half measure, you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Unless of course you believe in abortion?

Jarrod, I work in a hospital and I have worked in an SDA hospital too.  Basically there is no difference.  Except maybe the mission statements and a few pictures.  I am not trying to justify abortions.  If abortion is wrong then is wrong no matter where you do it.  As far as I know the SDA Church is against abortions, unless they are therapeutic.

"unless they are therapeutic"

Or, in the absence of a good answer, just have stayed quiet.

Or, better yet, instead of trying to disassociate the SDA denomination from their hospitals with a half measure, you could have openly condemned the hospitals that perform abortions.

Unless of course you believe in abortion?

Jarrod, I work in a hospital and I have worked in an SDA hospital too.  Basically there is no difference.  Except maybe the mission statements and a few pictures.  I am not trying to justify abortions.  If abortion is wrong then is wrong no matter where you do it.  As far as I know the SDA Church is against abortions, unless they are therapeutic.

"unless they are therapeutic"

Therapeutic means when an abortion is necessary to protect the life of the woman.

David, by ‘life of the woman’ do you take that to mean an immediate life and death choice to save the mother?

I think that you should research the true use of the term ‘therapeutic’ as applied to the abortion industry.