Author Topic: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church  (Read 103 times)

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Offline Hobie

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Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« on: Sat Nov 20, 2021 - 05:08:38 »
In a misguided attempt to attract new members and retain the youth many churches are bring in drums and electric guitars, and having rock and roll being played up from the pulpit stage. It is nothing to do with praise and worship but a destructive use of what the world does for entertainment with the same clapping and applause we find giving praise to rock stars and such produtions...

SOP warns that shortly before the coming of Christ, leaders will import worldly patterns for our worship services much as what happened before as we see in these quotes.
" The things you have described ... the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time.... A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of Satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working.... Those participating in the supposed revival receive impressions which lead them adrift. They cannot tell what they formerly knew regarding Bible principles.

No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. The same kind of influence came in after the passing of the time in 1844. The same kind of representations were made. Men became excited, and were worked by a power thought to be the power of God....

Men and women, supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit, held meetings in a state of nudity. They talked about holy flesh. They said they were beyond the power of temptation, and they sang, and shouted, and made all manner of noisy demonstrations.... Satan was moulding the work, and sensuality was the result. The cause of God was dishonored. Truth, sacred truth, was leveled in the dust by human agencies....

I bore my testimony, declaring that these fanatical movements, this din and noise, were inspired by the spirit of Satan, who was working miracles to deceive if possible the very elect.

We need to be on our guard, to maintain a close connection with Christ, that we be not deceived by Satan's devices. The Lord desires to have in His service order and discipline, not excitement and confusion.23Revival and Beyond, 50-52. "...https://whiteestate.org/devotional/mar/08_14/

Offline Amo

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #1 on: Sat Nov 20, 2021 - 07:39:10 »
This was always a no brainer for me, having spent too much of my youth drinking, drugging, partying with loud music, or attending drinking and drugging infested concerts and such. When I became a Christian, I could not associate my religion or church experience with that practiced so often when unconverted. It seemed obvious to me, they did not belong together.

Offline Hobie

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #2 on: Sat Nov 20, 2021 - 07:59:58 »
This was always a no brainer for me, having spent too much of my youth drinking, drugging, partying with loud music, or attending drinking and drugging infested concerts and such. When I became a Christian, I could not associate my religion or church experience with that practiced so often when unconverted. It seemed obvious to me, they did not belong together.
Very true, you go away from the world and then you find it being let into the church, and yet we see it in many churchs.

Offline Hobie

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #3 on: Sat Nov 27, 2021 - 15:40:53 »
Here is from SOP from the Ellen White Estate...
"4. Undesirable Qualities
Shrieking Sacred Words of Hymns of Praise. --Music forms a part of God’s worship in the courts above. We should endeavor in our songs of praise to approach as nearly as possible to the harmony of the heavenly choirs. I have often been pained to hear untrained voices, pitched to the highest key, literally shrieking the sacred words of some hymn of praise. How inappropriate those sharp, rasping voices for the solemn, joyous worship of God. I long to stop my ears, or flee from the place, and I rejoice when the painful exercise is ended.

Those who make singing a part of divine worship should select hymns with music appropriate to the occasion, not funeral notes, but cheerful, yet solemn melodies. The voice can and should be modulated, softened, and subdued. --Signs of the Times, June 22, 1882. (Evangelism, p. 507-8)


No Jargon or Discord. --I saw that all should sing with the spirit and with the understanding also. God is not pleased with jargon and discord. Right is always more pleasing to Him than wrong. And the nearer the people of God can approach to correct, harmonious singing, the more is He glorified, the church benefited, and unbelievers favorably affected. --Testimonies Vol. 1, p. 146. (1857)

Sing With the Spirit and Understanding. --Do not hire worldly musicians if this can possibly be avoided. Gather together singers who will sing with the spirit and with the understanding also. The extra display which you sometimes make entails unnecessary expense, which the brethren should not be asked to meet; and you will find that after a time unbelievers will not be willing to give money to meet these expenses. --Letter 51, 1902. (Evangelism p. 509)


5. Religious Music Made Satan's Snare
A. The Music at the 1900 Indiana Camp Meeting Described by Eye Witnesses

Its Almost Overwhelming Impact. --There is a great power that goes with the movement [Holy Flesh] that is on foot there. It would almost bring anybody within its scope, if they are at all conscientious, and sit and listen with the least degree of favor; because of the music that is brought to play in the ceremony. They have an organ, one bass viol, three fiddles, two flutes, three tambourines, three horns, and a big bass drum, and perhaps other instruments which I have not mentioned. They are as much trained in their musical line as any Salvation Army choir that you ever heard. In fact, their revival effort is simply a complete copy of the Salvation Army method, and when they get on a high key, you cannot hear a word from the congregation in their singing, nor hear anything, unless it be shrieks of those who are half insane. After an appeal to come forward for prayers, a few of the leading ones would always come forward, to lead others to come; and then they would begin to play on the musical instruments, until you could not hear yourself think; and under the excitement of this strain, they get a large proportion of the congregation forward over and over again. --S. N. Haskell report to E. G. White, September 25, 1900.

Dance tunes and Sacred Words. --We have a big drum, two tambourines, a big bass fiddle, two small fiddles, a flute and two comets, and an organ and a few voices. They have "Garden of Spices" as the songbook and play dance tunes to sacred words. They have never used our own hymn books, except when Elders Breed or Haskell speak, then they open and close with a hymn from our book, but all the other songs are from the other book. They shout Amens, and "Praise the Lord," "Glory to God," just like a Salvation Army service. It is distressing to one’s soul. The doctrines preached correspond to the rest. "The poor sheep are truly confused." --Mrs. S. N. Haskell report to Sara McEnterfer, September 12, 1900.

Lively Songs and Self-Induced Hysteria. --I attended the camp meeting in September of 1900, which was held at Muncie, where I witnessed first-hand the fanatical excitement and activities of these people. There were numerous groups of people scattered all over the campground engaged in arguing and, when these fanatics conducted the services in the large pavilion, they worked themselves up to a high pitch of excitement by the use of musical instruments, such as: trumpets, flutes, stringed instruments, tambourines, an organ, and a big bass drum. They shouted and sang their lively songs with the aid of musical instruments until they became really hysterical. Many times I saw them, after these morning meetings, as they came to the dining tent fairly shaking as though they had the palsy. --Burton Wade account to A. L. White, January 12, 1962.

B. Ellen G. White Comments on the Music at the 1900 Indiana Camp Meeting

A Bedlam of Noise Which Confuses the Senses. --The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.
No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. The same kind of influence came in after the passing of the time in 1844. The same kind of representations were made. Men became excited, and were worked by a power thought to be the power of God. --Letter 132, 1900, to S. N. Haskell. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 36, 37.)

Music Acceptable if "Properly Conducted," Made Satan’s Snare. --The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with such a confusion of noise and multitude of sounds as passed before me last January. Satan works amid the din and confusion of such music, which, properly conducted, would be a praise and glory to God. He makes its effect like the poison sting of the serpent.

Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted. God calls upon His people, who have the light before them in the Word and in the Testimonies, to read and consider, and to take heed. Clear and definite instruction has been given in order that all may understand. But the itching desire to originate something new results in strange doctrines, and largely destroys the influence of those who would be a power for good if they held firm the beginning of their confidence in the truth the Lord had given them. --Letter 132, 1900 to S. N. Haskell. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 37, 38.) (Emphasis Supplied)

These [in Indiana] were carried away by a spiritualistic delusion. --Evangelism, p. 595.

Noise No Evidence of Sanctification. --I have been instructed by the Lord that this movement in Indiana is of the same character as have been the movements in years past. In your religious meetings there have been exercises similar to those I have witnessed in connection with those movements in the past. . . . There was much excitement, with noise and confusion. One could not tell what was piped or what was harped. Some appeared to be in vision, and fell to the floor. Others were jumping, dancing, and shouting . . . .

The manner in which the meetings in Indiana have been carried on, with noise and confusion, does not commend them to thoughtful, intelligent minds. There is nothing in these demonstrations which will convince the world that we have the truth. Mere noise and shouting are no evidence of sanctification, or of the descent of the Holy Spirit. Your wild demonstrations create only disgust in the minds of unbelievers. The fewer of such demonstrations there are, the better it will be for the actors and for the people in general. . . .

Many such movements will arise at this time, when the Lord’s work should stand elevated, pure, unadulterated with superstition and fables. We need to be on our guard, to maintain a close connection with Christ, that we be not deceived by Satan’s devices.

The Lord desires to have in His service order and discipline, not excitement and confusion. We are not now able to describe with accuracy the scenes to be enacted in our world in the future; but this we do know, that this is a time when we must watch unto prayer; for the great day of the Lord is at hand. Satan is rallying his forces. We need to be thoughtful and still, and to contemplate the truths of revelation. Excitement is not favorable to growth in grace, to true purity and sanctification of the spirit...

God calls upon His people to walk with sobriety and holy consistency. They should be very careful not to misrepresent and dishonor the holy doctrines of truth by strange performances, by confusion and tumult. By this, unbelievers are led to think that Seventh-day Adventists are a set of fanatics. Thus prejudice is created that prevents souls from receiving the message for this time. When believers speak the truth as it is in Jesus, they reveal a holy, sensible calm, not a storm of confusion. --General Conference Bulletin, April 23, 1901. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 33-36)....

Offline Hobie

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #4 on: Sat Nov 27, 2021 - 15:41:33 »
...
6. The Lure of Worldly Music
No Frivolous Waltz or Flippant Song in the Schools of the Prophets. --The art of sacred melody was diligently cultivated. [In the schools of the prophets.] No frivolous waltz was heard, nor flippant song that should extol man and divert the attention from God; but sacred, solemn psalms of praise to the Creator, exalting His name and recounting His wondrous works. -- Fundamentals of Christian Education, p. 97.

When Satan Takes Charge. --There has been a class of social gatherings in _____ of an entirely different character, parties of pleasure that have been a disgrace to our institutions and to the church. They encourage pride of dress, pride of appearance, self-gratification, hilarity and trifling. Satan is entertained as an honored guest, and takes possession of those who patronize these gatherings.

A view of one such company was presented to me, where were assembled those who profess to believe the truth. One was seated at the instrument of music, and such songs were poured forth as made the watching angels weep. There was mirth, there was coarse laughter, there was abundance of enthusiasm, and a kind of inspiration; but the joy was such as Satan only is able to create. This is an enthusiasm and infatuation of which all who love God will be ashamed. It prepares the participants for unholy thought and action. I have reason to think that some who were engaged in that scene heartily repented of the shameful performance. --Counsels to Teachers, p. 339. (Emphasis Supplied.)

Music Put to a Wrong Use. --I feel alarmed as I witness everywhere the frivolity of young men and young women who profess to believe the truth. God does not seem to be in their thoughts. Their minds are filled with nonsense. Their conversation is only empty, vain talk. They have a keen ear for music, and Satan knows what organs to excite to animate, engross, and charm the mind so that Christ is not desired. The spiritual longings of the soul for divine knowledge, for a growth in grace, are wanting.

I was shown that the youth must take a higher stand and make the word of God the man of their counsel and their guide. Solemn responsibilities rest upon the young, which they lightly regard. The introduction of music into their homes, instead of inciting to holiness and spirituality, has been the means of diverting their minds from the truth. Frivolous songs and the popular sheet music of the day seem congenial to their taste. The instruments of music have taken time which should have been devoted to prayer.

Music, when not abused, is a great blessing; but when put to a wrong use, it is a terrible curse. It excites, but does not impart that strength and courage which the Christian can find only at the throne of grace while humbly making known his wants and with strong cries and tears pleading for heavenly strength to be fortified against the powerful temptations of the evil one. Satan is leading the young captive. Oh, what can I say to lead them to break his power of infatuation! He is a skillful charmer, luring them on to perdition. --Testimonies, Vol. 1, pp. 496-497. (Emphasis Supplied.)

Satan Uses it to Gain Access. --Eternal things have little weight with the youth. Angels of God are in tears as they write in the roll the words and acts of professed Christians. Angels are hovering around yonder dwelling. The young are there assembled; there is the sound of vocal and instrumental music. Christians are gathered there, but what is that you hear?
It is a song, a frivolous ditty, fit for the dance hall. Behold the pure angels gather their light closer around them, and darkness envelops those in that dwelling. The angels are moving from the scene. Sadness is upon their countenances. Behold, they are weeping. This I saw repeated a number of times all through the ranks of Sabbath keepers, and especially in _______.

Music has occupied the hours which should have been devoted to prayer. Music is the idol which many professed Sabbath keeping Christians worship. Satan has no objection to music if he can make that a channel through which to gain access to the minds of the youth.

Anything will suit his purpose that will divert the mind from God and engage the time which should be devoted to His service. He works through the means which will exert the strongest influence to hold the largest numbers in a pleasing infatuation, while they are paralyzed by his power. When turned to good account, music is a blessing; but it is often made one of Satan's most attractive agencies to ensnare souls. When abused, it leads the unconsecrated to pride, vanity, and folly. When allowed to take the place of devotion and prayer, it is a terrible curse.

Young persons assemble to sing, and, although professed Christians, frequently dishonor God and their faith by their frivolous conversation and their choice of music. Sacred music is not congenial to their taste. I was directed to the plain teachings of God's word, which have been passed by unnoticed. In the judgment all these words of inspiration will condemn those who have not heeded them. --Testimonies, Vol. 1, pp. 585-586. (Emphasis Supplied)

Low Songs and Lewd Gestures. --Among the most dangerous resorts for pleasure is the theater. Instead of being a school of morality and virtue, as is so often claimed, it is the very hotbed of immorality. Vicious habits and sinful propensities are strengthened and confirmed by these entertainments. Low songs, Lewd gestures, expressions, and attitudes, deprave the imagination and debase the morals.

Every youth who habitually attends such exhibitions will be corrupted in principle. There is no influence in our land more powerful to poison the imagination, to destroy religious impressions, and to blunt the relish for the tranquil pleasures and sober realities of life than theatrical amusements. The love for these scenes increases with every indulgence, as the desire for intoxicating drink strengthens with its use. --Testimonies, Vol. 4, pp. 652-653. (Emphasis Supplied)

Israel Beguiled by Heathen Music. --Balaam knew that the prosperity of Israel depended upon their observance of the law of God, and that there was no way to bring a curse upon them but by seducing them to transgression. He decided to secure to himself Balak's reward, and the promotion he desired, by advising the Moabites what course to pursue to bring the curse upon Israel. He counseled Balak to proclaim an idolatrous feast in honor of their idol gods, and he would persuade the Israelites to attend, that they might be delighted with the music, and then the most beautiful Midianitish women should entice the Israelites to transgress the law of God, and corrupt themselves, and also influence them to offer sacrifice to idols. This Satanic counsel succeeded too well. --Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 4, p. 49. (Emphasis Supplied)

Beguiled with music and dancing, and allured by the beauty of heathen vestals, they cast off their fealty to Jehovah. --Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 454.

Musical Entertainments to Have a Religious Atmosphere. --It has been revealed to me that not all the families who have a knowledge of the truth have brought the truth into their practice. Every talent of influence is to be sacredly cherished for the purpose of gathering souls to Christ's side. Young men and young women, do not consider that your musical
entertainments, conducted as they are in ______ are doing acceptable missionary work. A spirit has come into them that is of a different order. We had this same spirit to meet thirty years ago, and we bore decided testimony against it in Battle Creek.

A decided religious feature should be encouraged in all our gatherings. Light has been given me decidedly again and again. Thirty years ago, when certain ones would assemble together for an evening of singing exercises, the spirit of courting was allowed to come in, and great injury was done to souls, some of whom never recovered. --Manuscript 57, 1906.

The Peril of Worldly Entertainments. --It is not safe for the Lord's workers to take part in worldly entertainments. Association with worldliness in musical lines is looked upon as harmless by some Sabbath keepers. But such ones are on dangerous ground. Thus Satan seeks to lead men and women astray, and thus he has gained control of souls. So smooth, so plausible is the working of the enemy that his wiles are not suspected, and many church members become lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. --Manuscript 82, 1900."  https://whiteestate.org/legacy/issues-music-html/

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #4 on: Sat Nov 27, 2021 - 15:41:33 »



Offline Rella

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #5 on: Sat Nov 27, 2021 - 20:42:08 »
I have never been for guitars and such "rock" services that I first heard of in my 20s
when the local RCC church would hold one mass a week they called a " rock mass".

This is not s recent occurance as I a, 74.

But you cannot totally exclude " music from services as Psalm 100 states

1. Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands.

2 Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

Offline Amo

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #6 on: Sun Nov 28, 2021 - 09:41:59 »
Music is all about glorification. In Church particularly, all should strive to be sure that it glorifies God. Opinions of just what music does so, will of course vary. In any case, church music should not be about the display of personal talent, but rather only as such brings glory to God.

Offline Rella

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #7 on: Mon Nov 29, 2021 - 13:37:09 »
Music is all about glorification. In Church particularly, all should strive to be sure that it glorifies God. Opinions of just what music does so, will of course vary. In any case, church music should not be about the display of personal talent, but rather only as such brings glory to God.

In total agreement.

One reason I do not sing with the others.... I don't want God needing to cover his ears with his hands.  ::tippinghat::

Online 4WD

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #8 on: Tue Nov 30, 2021 - 05:54:41 »
I personally believe that one of the worst things to ever have happened to congregational singing is the sound booth in churches.  I do not enjoy and I do not like the so-called "praise hymns" that have become the norm in modern church services.  Most of the great Christian hymns when simply read, as the poems when written, are full of real meaning; not so these modern day "praise" songs.

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Re: Clapping, Applause , Music, Drums, in church
« Reply #9 on: Tue Nov 30, 2021 - 06:55:31 »
I personally believe that one of the worst things to ever have happened to congregational singing is the sound booth in churches.  I do not enjoy and I do not like the so-called "praise hymns" that have become the norm in modern church services.  Most of the great Christian hymns when simply read, as the poems when written, are full of real meaning; not so these modern day "praise" songs
.
Agreed~most of the modern-day churches of the last one hundred and twenty-plus years do not even use the old hymns written back from 1500 to 1850. Signs of the last days without question.