Author Topic: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?  (Read 987 times)

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Offline Hobie

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We cannot trust the traditions of men on the Sabbath vs. Sunday issue, for this is not safe, nor in just mere human opinions. Instead we need to know what scripture actually says, and above all, what Jesus Christ Himself taught, so we accept His pure teaching as our final authority.

 Jesus Christ is “Lord even of the Sabbath day” as the Creator. Jesus said,“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8. By identifying Himself as “Lord even of the Sabbath day,” Jesus of was showing that He was the One who originally created Earth in six days, and rested on the seventh day. And the New Testament makes clear that Jesus is the Creator...

 "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made." John 1:3
 "He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not". John 1:10
 "God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Eph. 3:9
 "For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Col. 1:16

 So scripture makes clear Jesus Christ is our Creator and also gave us the Sabbath for man not just the Jews.
 "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"Mark 2:27

 Not only did Jesus create the Sabbath but He makes clear it was the seventh day and Holy...
 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

 "And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23


 Now you can check the scriptures and it will make clear the Sabbath is on Saturday, while Sunday is "the first day of the week" (Mat. 28:1; Mark 16:1, 2, etc). Jesus Christ regularly kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16), taught much about the Sabbath (Mat. 12:12; 24:20), and clearly stated that He is "Lord even of the Sabbath day" (Mat. 12:8). Jesus Christ never mentioned "the first day of the week" even one time. He taught nothing about it. The Sabbath continues after the cross (Luke 23:54-56) and was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:42-44; 16:13).
 There is no biblical authorization for the change of the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

 God made the Sabbath at the beginning of the world (Gen. 2:1-3) before any Jews existed, to be a blessing to all people. Most importantly, it is a special sign that Jesus Christ is the true Creator of heaven and earth ( John 1:1-3, 10; Col. 1:16; Ex. 20:11; Ezekiel 20:12).

 When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. Luke 4:16 "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.¨ Thus Jesus followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?

 Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath:

 Mark 2:27
 (27) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 Note: The Sabbath was made “for man” and when the Sabbath first came into the picture (Genesis 2:1-3) the only man alive then was Adam and his wife Eve. Therefore, the Sabbath was made for them, and for their offspring.

 The understanding of the Law was given to man way before Moses as scripture makes clear...

 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Genesis 26:5


 The Ten Commandments were not part of Moses’ ceremonial law as Exodus 19, 20, and 31 clearly show. Also, there are many Bible references that show there was a distinguishment made between the Commandments and that of Moses’ book of the law.

 Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, Jesus carefully taught how it should be observed.Matthew 12:1-13

 Jesus is also known as the Lord of the Sabbath.Matthew 12:8. Why be Lord of something you were going to abolish?

 Christ instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection.Matthew 24:20. When one reads all of Matt 24 they’ll see that Jesus was warning the disciples of the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem – which occurred about 40 years after His resurrection. Are we to believe that Christ didn’t know when this siege would take place?

 Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it "the Sabbath day." Acts 13:14-16.Sounds like the Sabbath was still in effect even then, well after Christ's death.

 The New Testament alone mentions the Sabbath day no less than 84 times - sounds like God is trying to tell us something. And never once is there a change of the Sabbath day to any other nor was it abolished.

 Luke 23:56 - And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

 Jesus' own mother observed the Sabbath AFTER Jesus died. If He had changed or done away with the Sabbath day (having nailed it to the cross), wouldn't His own mother have known it? She was a follower of the Messiah; Mary was certainly would have known of any changes as she was at the cross. Now lets see what Jesus did:

 Luke 4:16
 (16) And he came to Nazareth, where he [Jesus Christ] had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

 Jesus Christ said to keep the commandments:
 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:16-17

 Jesus never said that the Sabbath would change even after His death:
 "But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day." Matthew 24:20.

 Jesus asked his disciples to pray that in the flight from the doomed city of Jerusalem they would not have to flee on the Sabbath day. This flight took place in 70 A.D.(40 years after the Cross).

 He kept the seventh day as the Sabbath from Creation and in His life on earth, and Christ is our example, and He says if we love HIM to keep HIS Commandments.

 So, when was the Sabbath made? It was made at Creation. By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested from all the work of creating that He had done.

 The fourth commandment tells the same story:

 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy ...... for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but He rested on the seventh day. Therefore,(for that reason) the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

 Now lets see a important day in our life like the day we were born, what would you think of someone suggesting that you change your birthday to the following day or a few after, or perhaps to the day before? Is that your birthday, the day you were born, No of course not.

 The same is true of the day the fourth commandment specifies as the day God made Holy, a day of rest for man. To be truly a cellebration of Creation, it has to be the seventh day of the week rather than the first or the fifth. Did God make a mistake in the day and made Sunday Holy and forgot to tell us? No, and neither can man change what God has created and it was the seventh day that God made holy.

 The Sabbath is a special day to focus on Jesus Christ our Maker: Jesus is “the Lord” who made the world in six days, and “rested on the seventh day.” Thus the Sabbath is a special day to focus on the Jesus Christ as the Creator and Sustainer of all life. It is a day to come apart from the normal stresses and cares of everyday living, to be refreshed and blessed by the great Creator who loves and died for us.

 We are to work at our normal jobs during the six working days, but from sundown Friday night until sundown Saturday night, we should rest from our work. Late Friday afternoon, after Jesus died, "the Sabbath drew on." Luke 23:54. When the sun went down, Christ's followers "rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

 Secular business should be laid aside. Shopping, laundry, homework, and housecleaning should be done during the six working days, and laid aside on the Sabbath so we can rest from our labors and be free to focus on our Creator Jesus Christ and share our love and worship Him.

Offline current occupant2

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #1 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 12:07:53 »
Why are you attempting to get everyone to keep the ‘FIRST COVENANT’ that is spoken of in Hebrews 8 and 9? 


Online Jaime

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #2 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 15:43:25 »
When was Sunday established as the day of rest in the new covenant?

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #3 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 15:53:36 »
When was Sunday established as the day of rest in the new covenant?

Never.  Just as the Sabbath was never commanded to be observed in the New Covenant.

The tradition of meeting together on Sunday with other believers is shown in the NT as you are aware.

Online Jaime

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 16:43:11 »
Not in Acts 20:7 as I had drilled in me. That meeting as we have discussed before was a post sabbath meeting at sundown on Saturday at the beginning of the Jewish first day of the week, which began at sundown Saturday night. Paul then preached until Midnight and then Eutychus fell out of the 2nd story window. So NO the “ironclad” prooftext for Sunday worship fails as to this long held prooftext in my opinion.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 17:08:32 by Jaime »

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #4 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 16:43:11 »



Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 17:24:38 »
Not in Acts 20:7 as I had drilled in me. That meeting as we have discussed before was a post sabbath meeting at sundown on Saturday at the beginning of the Jewish first day of the week, which began at sundown Saturday night. Paul then preached until Midnight and then Eutychus fell out of the 2nd story window. So NO the “ironclad” prooftext for Sunday worship fails as to this long held prooftext in my opinion.

Show me where I need a prooftext.  I said "tradition" not new command.

Offline beam

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 18:46:52 »
Do not allow anyone to put you back under the Law that  Jesus came to fulfill.  God gave those laws to the Israelites exclusively.  Gentiles were never ask to observe the rituals that Israel had to observe.  And that includes Sabbath.





Online Jaime

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #7 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 19:19:35 »
TC I had always been taught that Acts 20:7 was the lynchpin for Sunday worship. i don’t think it is at all. If anything it supports a Saturday night thing. I’m not at all convinced what they were doing was a worship service and also I think it was a meal and not necessarily a communion as claimed by many.

There are lots of historical documentation of Christians meeting on the Sabbath according to some accounts. The Sunday thing is at best weak. I don’t see that there would have to be a mention of the Sabbath specifically for the Jews after so many hundreds of years. Not sure about the non Jewish Christians in every case, but I am reasonable confident that the Christians in Troaz in acts 20 were meeting on Saturday night, which technically WAS the first day of the week. And their gathering to break bread could well mean just a meal as it does in other passages.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 20:13:15 by Jaime »

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #8 on: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 19:26:22 »
Beam, I am not advocating going under the Law. Sunday was not ordained as the Christian day of rest in scripture either. A gentile Christian could well take his day of rest on Saturday. Resting on Saturday isn’t KEEPING the Sabbath as the Jews understood in their imperfect understanding, that Jesus corrected with the sermon on the mount where he actually RAISED the bar, not abolish it. You have heard it said do not commit adultery, but I say to you do not even lust for a woman in your heart. Or you have heard it said do not murder, but I say to you do not have anger in your heart. Both much loftier bars when Jesus included the spirit WITH the letter of the Law. Hence Jesus filled full the Law.
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 06, 2019 - 19:30:54 by Jaime »

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #9 on: Thu Mar 07, 2019 - 07:53:28 »
TC I had always been taught that Acts 20:7 was the lynchpin for Sunday worship. i don’t think it is at all. If anything it supports a Saturday night thing. I’m not at all convinced what they were doing was a worship service and also I think it was a meal and not necessarily a communion as claimed by many.

There are lots of historical documentation of Christians meeting on the Sabbath according to some accounts. The Sunday thing is at best weak. I don’t see that there would have to be a mention of the Sabbath specifically for the Jews after so many hundreds of years. Not sure about the non Jewish Christians in every case, but I am reasonable confident that the Christians in Troaz in acts 20 were meeting on Saturday night, which technically WAS the first day of the week. And their gathering to break bread could well mean just a meal as it does in other passages.

Saturday night is the first day under the law.  The Sunday thing to me is just tradition.  As Colossians 2 and Hebrews 4 point out, we are not bound by how we conduct a Sabbath and we are not to allow others to judge us on these matters.

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #10 on: Thu Mar 07, 2019 - 08:14:35 »
Absolutely, so a Christian taking saturday as their day of rest should also not be subject to condemnation, unless they are trying to bind it on others. And one should not be dogmatic about Sunday either, if scripture is the guide.


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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #11 on: Thu Mar 07, 2019 - 08:16:57 »
Absolutely, so a Christian taking saturday as their day of rest should also not be subject to condemnation, unless they are trying to bind it on others. And one should not be dogmatic about Sunday either, if scripture is the guide.

No they should not.  However, anyone who knows anything about the SDA church would recognize that keeping the Sabbath is more than just a day of worship.  It is the mark of the true church, and the eventual mark of the beast on Christians will be keeping Sunday.  So I have no problems whatsoever, calling them wrong about it.

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #12 on: Thu Mar 07, 2019 - 08:37:10 »
Me neither. They are wrong to make the Sabbath keeping as the be all end all. But I also acknowledge some of the arguments against them is just as ridiculous. Sunday is not the sacred day under the new covenant. My whole issue is that gentile Christians have gone way overboard intentionally or not in the Sunday thing for no or very little scriptural backup. We may say nowadays that anyday is sacred to the Lord, but our heritage is for a special status for Sunday. Even to the point of in the past decades, Sunday is referred to and acknowledged as the Christian Sabbath. Most Christians not involved regularly in the debate will say without reservation that Sunday is the Sabbath. When told that Saturday or the seventh day is the Sabbath and Sunday is the first day of the week, a blank stare comes across their face.
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 07, 2019 - 08:41:42 by Jaime »

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #13 on: Thu Mar 07, 2019 - 10:25:24 »
If keeping the Sabbath means one is under the law, then having no other God's before the Lord, not taking the Lords name in vain, not worshipping idols, not stealing, not murdering, not lying, and honoring one's parents also reveal that those who do such are under the law. I know, let us do evil, that good may come.

Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Offline beam

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #14 on: Tue Mar 12, 2019 - 11:57:16 »
Beam, I am not advocating going under the Law. Sunday was not ordained as the Christian day of rest in scripture either. A gentile Christian could well take his day of rest on Saturday. Resting on Saturday isn’t KEEPING the Sabbath as the Jews understood in their imperfect understanding, that Jesus corrected with the sermon on the mount where he actually RAISED the bar, not abolish it. You have heard it said do not commit adultery, but I say to you do not even lust for a woman in your heart. Or you have heard it said do not murder, but I say to you do not have anger in your heart. Both much loftier bars when Jesus included the spirit WITH the letter of the Law. Hence Jesus filled full the Law.
Hi Jamie, I just saw your post to me, so I will add my pennies worth.   Actually, the new covenant does not advocate taking a day of rest.  Israelites probably were made to work seven days while slaves in Egypt.  God's laws to them specified that they were to rest one day a week, have festivals and many more days in which to relax.  God had a huge reprogramming job.  The new covenant came along at a time when there were laws and customs.   Plus the fact that the Sinai covenant was given to Israel as the way God wanted them to live in Canaan.  It was not a covenant about salvation  The new covenant is all about our salvation.  It does not specify anything about when or where we are to gather and worship.  That is left to us to decide

Now to Matt5 and the Sermon on the Mount.  Jesus came especially to save the chosen of God.  He was born into Judaism, studied the covenant law and proclaimed His understanding to Israel.  The new covenant had yet to be ratified by Jesus blood, so what Jesus taught was the Sinai covenant and of course, His enhanced features like you pointed out.

The blessings of the Sinai covenant stopped When Jesus gave up the Ghost.  The new and better covenant started at that point and not only can the Jews believe and are saved, but salvation is also open for all mankind and salvation has nothing to do with the Sinai covenant.

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #15 on: Tue Mar 12, 2019 - 13:55:05 »
The old law and the ild covenant ate two different things. Jesus said I did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. He did that by filling it full. He added the spirit of the law to the incomplete letter of the law. Hence the bar was raised not removed.
« Last Edit: Tue Mar 12, 2019 - 13:58:24 by Jaime »

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #16 on: Tue Mar 12, 2019 - 16:40:30 »
Hi Jamie, I just saw your post to me, so I will add my pennies worth.   Actually, the new covenant does not advocate taking a day of rest.  Israelites probably were made to work seven days while slaves in Egypt.  God's laws to them specified that they were to rest one day a week, have festivals and many more days in which to relax.  God had a huge reprogramming job.  The new covenant came along at a time when there were laws and customs.   Plus the fact that the Sinai covenant was given to Israel as the way God wanted them to live in Canaan.  It was not a covenant about salvation  The new covenant is all about our salvation.  It does not specify anything about when or where we are to gather and worship.  That is left to us to decide

Now to Matt5 and the Sermon on the Mount.  Jesus came especially to save the chosen of God.  He was born into Judaism, studied the covenant law and proclaimed His understanding to Israel.  The new covenant had yet to be ratified by Jesus blood, so what Jesus taught was the Sinai covenant and of course, His enhanced features like you pointed out.

The blessings of the Sinai covenant stopped When Jesus gave up the Ghost.  The new and better covenant started at that point and not only can the Jews believe and are saved, but salvation is also open for all mankind and salvation has nothing to do with the Sinai covenant.

There is no Biblical support for the teaching that the Christ's New Covenant redefined sin.

I believe we should let the Christ define His own New Covenant.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Prior to "After those days" there was a Levitical Priesthood which was in charge of administering God's Laws.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Also prior to "after those days" there were Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial "Works of the Law" that the Christ gave to Moses "until the Seed should come" as Paul says in Gal. 3. This Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to God's existing laws because of transgression.

The Christ promised in Jeremiah that "After those days" We would have access to God's Laws without the filter of Levite Priests. And we would have our sins forgiven without the sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement.

So according to the Creator of the New Covenant, 2 things changed.

#1. How God's Law is administered.

#2. How sins are forgiven.

There is no mention of abolishing God's Laws, or re-defining them, only that the Risen Christ will write God's Laws on our hearts. This way His People, who love Him, will know God's Will.











Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #17 on: Wed Mar 13, 2019 - 18:51:50 »
Quote
Hobie:
We cannot trust the traditions of men on the Sabbath vs. Sunday issue, for this is not safe, nor in just mere human opinions. Instead we need to know what scripture actually says, and above all, what Jesus Christ Himself taught, so we accept His pure teaching as our final authority.

 Jesus Christ is “Lord even of the Sabbath day” as the Creator. Jesus said,“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8. By identifying Himself as “Lord even of the Sabbath day,” Jesus of was showing that He was the One who originally created Earth in six days, and rested on the seventh day. And the New Testament makes clear that Jesus is the Creator...

 "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made." John 1:3
 "He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not". John 1:10
 "God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Eph. 3:9
 "For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Col. 1:16

 So scripture makes clear Jesus Christ is our Creator and also gave us the Sabbath for man not just the Jews.
 "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"Mark 2:27

 Not only did Jesus create the Sabbath but He makes clear it was the seventh day and Holy...
 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

 "And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23


 Now you can check the scriptures and it will make clear the Sabbath is on Saturday, while Sunday is "the first day of the week" (Mat. 28:1; Mark 16:1, 2, etc). Jesus Christ regularly kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16), taught much about the Sabbath (Mat. 12:12; 24:20), and clearly stated that He is "Lord even of the Sabbath day" (Mat. 12:8). Jesus Christ never mentioned "the first day of the week" even one time. He taught nothing about it. The Sabbath continues after the cross (Luke 23:54-56) and was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:42-44; 16:13).
 There is no biblical authorization for the change of the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

 God made the Sabbath at the beginning of the world (Gen. 2:1-3) before any Jews existed, to be a blessing to all people. Most importantly, it is a special sign that Jesus Christ is the true Creator of heaven and earth ( John 1:1-3, 10; Col. 1:16; Ex. 20:11; Ezekiel 20:12).

 When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. Luke 4:16 "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.¨ Thus Jesus followed His Father's example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example of both the Father and the Son?

 Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath:

 Mark 2:27
 (27) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 Note: The Sabbath was made “for man” and when the Sabbath first came into the picture (Genesis 2:1-3) the only man alive then was Adam and his wife Eve. Therefore, the Sabbath was made for them, and for their offspring.

 The understanding of the Law was given to man way before Moses as scripture makes clear...

 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." Genesis 26:5


 The Ten Commandments were not part of Moses’ ceremonial law as Exodus 19, 20, and 31 clearly show. Also, there are many Bible references that show there was a distinguishment made between the Commandments and that of Moses’ book of the law.

 Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, Jesus carefully taught how it should be observed.Matthew 12:1-13

 Jesus is also known as the Lord of the Sabbath.Matthew 12:8. Why be Lord of something you were going to abolish?

 Christ instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection.Matthew 24:20. When one reads all of Matt 24 they’ll see that Jesus was warning the disciples of the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem – which occurred about 40 years after His resurrection. Are we to believe that Christ didn’t know when this siege would take place?

 Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it "the Sabbath day." Acts 13:14-16.Sounds like the Sabbath was still in effect even then, well after Christ's death.

 The New Testament alone mentions the Sabbath day no less than 84 times - sounds like God is trying to tell us something. And never once is there a change of the Sabbath day to any other nor was it abolished.

 Luke 23:56 - And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

 Jesus' own mother observed the Sabbath AFTER Jesus died. If He had changed or done away with the Sabbath day (having nailed it to the cross), wouldn't His own mother have known it? She was a follower of the Messiah; Mary was certainly would have known of any changes as she was at the cross. Now lets see what Jesus did:

 Luke 4:16
 (16) And he came to Nazareth, where he [Jesus Christ] had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

 Jesus Christ said to keep the commandments:
 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:16-17

 Jesus never said that the Sabbath would change even after His death:
 "But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day." Matthew 24:20.

 Jesus asked his disciples to pray that in the flight from the doomed city of Jerusalem they would not have to flee on the Sabbath day. This flight took place in 70 A.D.(40 years after the Cross).

 He kept the seventh day as the Sabbath from Creation and in His life on earth, and Christ is our example, and He says if we love HIM to keep HIS Commandments.

 So, when was the Sabbath made? It was made at Creation. By the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it He rested from all the work of creating that He had done.

 The fourth commandment tells the same story:

 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy ...... for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but He rested on the seventh day. Therefore,(for that reason) the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

 Now lets see a important day in our life like the day we were born, what would you think of someone suggesting that you change your birthday to the following day or a few after, or perhaps to the day before? Is that your birthday, the day you were born, No of course not.

 The same is true of the day the fourth commandment specifies as the day God made Holy, a day of rest for man. To be truly a cellebration of Creation, it has to be the seventh day of the week rather than the first or the fifth. Did God make a mistake in the day and made Sunday Holy and forgot to tell us? No, and neither can man change what God has created and it was the seventh day that God made holy.

 The Sabbath is a special day to focus on Jesus Christ our Maker: Jesus is “the Lord” who made the world in six days, and “rested on the seventh day.” Thus the Sabbath is a special day to focus on the Jesus Christ as the Creator and Sustainer of all life. It is a day to come apart from the normal stresses and cares of everyday living, to be refreshed and blessed by the great Creator who loves and died for us.

 We are to work at our normal jobs during the six working days, but from sundown Friday night until sundown Saturday night, we should rest from our work. Late Friday afternoon, after Jesus died, "the Sabbath drew on." Luke 23:54. When the sun went down, Christ's followers "rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

 Secular business should be laid aside. Shopping, laundry, homework, and housecleaning should be done during the six working days, and laid aside on the Sabbath so we can rest from our labors and be free to focus on our Creator Jesus Christ and share our love and worship Him.

Yes, dear Hobie.
But tell us, WHO of 'us' are not but too well acquainted with ALL of this... by now, after your whole lifetime plus more than 100 years OF THE SAME STUFF, hey!?

Can you blame us for being TIRED by it by now? Tired, man, by its ChristLESSness!

Of course you will protest, we are over-accustomed to that also.

I'll tell you what to DO about your SDA problem!
GO TO YOUR LEADERSHIP AND ASK THEM WHY YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn! Ask them WHY you have never heard of the exact sameness of the SDA view and the Catholic view about Sunday and Saturday sanctity on the one hand and on the other hand the ONLY other view ever raised by anyone except by this man yours faithfully?

Ask them WHY - before God, WHY, you have never heard that Christ is Lord of the Sabbath DAY because on the Sabbath DAY he ATTAINED Lordship of the Sabbath DAY by RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD : "ON THE SABBATH DAY"!

Go and ask your big shots, the puny petty petulant puissant in their own eyes!
« Last Edit: Wed Mar 13, 2019 - 19:12:47 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #18 on: Wed Mar 13, 2019 - 19:26:52 »
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Beam:
 the new covenant does not advocate taking a day of rest.  Israelites probably were made to work seven days while slaves in Egypt.  God's laws to them specified that they were to rest one day a week, have festivals and many more days in which to relax.

You have no idea what the New Covenant or the old covenant is --was and is and always will be.

You blatantly write lying vanities that "'God's laws to them --Israelites .. while slaves in Egypt-- specified that they were to rest one day a week, have festivals and many more days in which to relax.'"

Don't underestimate our intelligence but rightly estimate your own!


Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #19 on: Wed Mar 13, 2019 - 19:40:04 »
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Why are you attempting to get everyone to keep the ‘FIRST COVENANT’ that is spoken of in Hebrews 8 and 9? 

You know it but still try to fool around with the FAULT in the KJV because it says 'covenant' where it is the "dispensation" or and "ministration".

Or no, you don't know it, never will know it because you don't WANT to know the truth. That's understandable as you have proved should be expected of you.

Offline beam

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #20 on: Fri Mar 15, 2019 - 11:07:55 »
There is no Biblical support for the teaching that the Christ's New Covenant redefined sin.
Hi GB, did I indicate that it did?  Now if you are trying to tell us that every law that God gave the Israel nation is cannon today then I diametrically disagree with you.  It was never a sin for any other nation to keep laws pertaining to only Israel.  It was/is a sin for all men to commit sins of morality against God and his fellow man.    Sabbath was a ritual law.  It had nothing to do with the morality issue.  If God would have given me the obligation to keep the ritual laws of Sabbath I would do so in a moment.    There is not one iota of evidence that the New Covenant teaches the observance of Sabbath.  There are many passages that proclaim that Christians are not under the Sinai covenant

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I believe we should let the Christ define His own New Covenant.
Yes, He did define the New Covenant including the writings of John, John, Paul, Peter, Luke, Timothy and James plus the writer of the book of Hebrews

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Prior to "After those days" there was a Levitical Priesthood which was in charge of administering God's Laws.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Also prior to "after those days" there were Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial "Works of the Law" that the Christ gave to Moses "until the Seed should come" as Paul says in Gal. 3. This Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to God's existing laws because of transgression.

The Christ promised in Jeremiah that "After those days" We would have access to God's Laws without the filter of Levite Priests. And we would have our sins forgiven without the sacrificial "Works of the Law" for atonement.

So according to the Creator of the New Covenant, 2 things changed.

#1. How God's Law is administered.

#2. How sins are forgiven.

There is no mention of abolishing God's Laws, or re-defining them, only that the Risen Christ will write God's Laws on our hearts. This way His People, who love Him, will know God's Will.
Wow! where to start?  In Heb7 you quoted verse 11 and I am wondering why you didn't touch on verse 12?  12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.   In Matt 5 verse 17 Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the Sinai covenant with its 613 laws of the prophets,  He saidHe came to fulfill the law and the prophecies concerning Him.  The Sinai covenant had already been abolished.  It was an 'IF' covenant see Ex 19:5-6.  God did His part and the Israelites failed to do their part.  A broken covenant is worthless.  Yes, we can say it was abolished, it was not Jesus who did it!  The fact is that Israel really had no covenant and Jesus left Heaven to give the New and better covenant, not like the old one, the New Covenant has better promises.  The Old Covenant was not about salvation, the New Covenant is all about salvation.    Moses told the Israelites about how Abraham was saved.  That is the way all mankind can have eternal life.  The Olds Covenant laws had no saving value.

The New Covenant is not about moldy houses or women's time of the month.  It is not about our making sacrifices and keeping days.  When we accept Jesus we accept the New Covenant of Love.  Jesus gave of Himself for our sins.  Our covenant is about believing and loving others as Jesus loves us

What Jeremiah prophecied is correct, only he didn't have the complete picture.  He didn't know that Gentiles would be included in the covenant nor was he able to pinpoint what God's laws included.   The book of Hebrews better explains the two covenants.

To help see that it was not the Sinai covenant laws that are written on our hearts we have only to go the Sabbath issue.  If the Sabbath law is written on our hearts then why isn't the Holy Spirit who is dwelling in us revealing it to us?  SDAs spend countless millions on trying to convert others to their beliefs.  The truth is most that hear their preaching are not convinced and do not join.  Of those that do join only a handful stay.   If the Sabbath was written on the hearts of man wouldn't you think we would be flocking to the churches that sponsor those beliefs?   When I became a SDA it was not because my heart was telling me to, it was because I thought the 10 commandments were my guide and I needed to follow ALL of the 10.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #21 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 06:15:53 »
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Beam:
There is not one iota of evidence that the New Covenant teaches the observance of Sabbath.

You must be blind or suffer of dyslexia or are illiterate because stupid enough you are not to make such claim.

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #22 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 06:21:35 »
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Beam:
If the Sabbath law is written on our hearts then why isn't the Holy Spirit who is dwelling in us revealing it to us?

Speak for yourself, kindly, when you speak for yourself?

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #23 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 06:32:13 »
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Beam:
The Olds Covenant laws had no saving value.

Who said they had? Only you! That's why you claim it had to be abolished, which is absolutely right, because the old covenant laws are as much as they used to be your as much as they are my or the next guy's, and so all sinner's laws : SINNERS' Law against God's Eternal New Covenant Law of Laws.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 06:37:20 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #24 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 09:28:24 »
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The New Covenant is not about moldy houses or women's time of the month.  It is not about our making sacrifices and keeping days.  When we accept Jesus we accept the New Covenant of Love.  Jesus gave of Himself for our sins.  Our covenant is about believing and loving others as Jesus loves us

YOUR Law, your empty hypocritical foul air noise about "'_our covenant_ about believing and loving others as Jesus loves us .. when _we accept_ Jesus"' or "'when _we accept_ the New Covenant of Love'", is your '"law'" and "'covenant'" infinity worse than what you imagine God's Laws even "'about moldy houses or women's time of the month'" are.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #25 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 11:17:46 »
The Olds Covenant laws had no saving value.
So then it is your opinion that all those under the Old Covenant were not saved; but rather all were condemned to hell?  Or perhaps you believe that they were saved after they died?  That doesn't make sense.  The simple truth is that there were many, many under the Old Covenant that were saved.  Do you really believe that no one was saved until Jesus died on the cross?   If so, then you do not understand.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #26 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 12:22:11 »
No law has ever had any power to save. Laws condemn those who break them, they do not save anyone. Our God is a Savior revealed in and through His Son Jesus Christ. God's laws are simply His rules of conduct for the citizens of His kingdom. They did not create, they cannot sustain, or save anyone or anything. They are a standard which once broken condemns. The saved keep them because they are saved from this broken condition, not in order to be saved.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #27 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 12:34:49 »
No law has ever had any power to save. Laws condemn those who break them, they do not save anyone. Our God is a Savior revealed in and through His Son Jesus Christ. God's laws are simply His rules of conduct for the citizens of His kingdom. They did not create, they cannot sustain, or save anyone or anything. They are a standard which once broken condemns. The saved keep them because they are saved from this broken condition, not in order to be saved.
The Old Covenant and the Law are really two different things entirely. It seems you really have no clue about the Old Covenant whatsoever.  Such a shame for someone who goes around dumping on everyone else who doesn't agree with you. 

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #28 on: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 17:50:07 »
The Old Covenant and the Law are really two different things entirely. It seems you really have no clue about the Old Covenant whatsoever.  Such a shame for someone who goes around dumping on everyone else who doesn't agree with you.

No need to carry your animosity regarding our disagreements concerning evolution over to this issue. Of course you are free to do as you wish.

I made no mention at all of covenants in the post you responded to. How is it you think you know what I believe concerning such? While the old covenant and laws certainly were somewhat entwined, you are correct, God's law and God's covenants are not really the same thing. It is the constant claim of many who wish to abolish God's law or at least the sabbath commandment that they are one and the same. Not mine. They wish to make them the same so they can claim God's laws ended with the old covenant.

Nevertheless, all three of the main covenants God has made with humanity include the observance of God's laws. Abraham, with whom God established His everlasting covenant which both the old and new covenants are part of, kept God's laws, statutes, and commandments. Israel was given the ten commandments directly by God, and Jesus Christ established those very commandments when here as one of us. The covenants are built upon God's promises and surety, certainly not ours. Obedience to God's law is a consequence of entering into His covenants by faith in His promises concerning them, not in order to obtain salvation, but rather out of our pitiful attempts to ratify the covenants from our own end. Therefore was the Lord Jesus Christ sent to intervene and establish and or ratify our covenant with God that we could not ratify on our own behalf.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 16, 2019 - 17:53:32 by Amo »

Offline beam

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #29 on: Sun Mar 17, 2019 - 10:02:33 »
So then it is your opinion that all those under the Old Covenant were not saved; but rather all were condemned to hell?  Or perhaps you believe that they were saved after they died?  That doesn't make sense.  The simple truth is that there were many, many under the Old Covenant that were saved.  Do you really believe that no one was saved until Jesus died on the cross?   If so, then you do not understand.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
Why would you even ask that question 4WD?  I have never ever suggested that those under the laws of the old covenant will not be saved.  You made up a scenario and then made a statement that what you deem I believe doesn't make sense.

If you have been following any of my postings you would have found that what I do believe is that Israelites under the Sinai covenant were saved the same way Abraham was saved.  Moses is the one that told the story of Abraham and that story is part of the Pentateuch.    We have to believe that the Israelites lived by faith.  How could one not believe they did after reading the Psalms and many more inspiring passages from the Old Testament.

I write and truly believe that the Sinai covenant was not about salvation.  In God's statement to Moses before the covenant was given God explained why He was giving the covenant.  Ex19: 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”   I empathize the word "better" when I write about the new covenant.  It is a better covenant because it is about salvation.  When the priesthood changed so did the laws.   SDAs believe there is something sacred about the Sinai covenant or at least the 10 commandments of that covenant.    The Law was sacred to them, but we are not under the laws of that covenant.  We are Christians under the laws of the author of our new covenant.

If God judged the Israelites by how well they kept the Sinai covenant I think you are smart enough to figure out how many of them will be in the Kingdom.  It has always been about Grace and it will continue to be about Grace until the Plan of Salvation comes to a close.

Offline beam

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #30 on: Sun Mar 17, 2019 - 10:19:00 »
Quote from: Amo on Yesterday at 12:22:11
Quote
No law has ever had any power to save. Laws condemn those who break them, they do not save anyone. Our God is a Savior revealed in and through His Son Jesus Christ. God's laws are simply His rules of conduct for the citizens of His kingdom. They did not create, they cannot sustain, or save anyone or anything. They are a standard which once broken condemns. The saved keep them because they are saved from this broken condition, not in order to be saved.

The Old Covenant and the Law are really two different things entirely.

Instead of leaving everyone dumb about the issue why didn't you explain the difference?

Quote
It seems you really have no clue about the Old Covenant whatsoever.  Such a shame for someone who goes around dumping on everyone else who doesn't agree with you.
What it really seems like is that you have superior knowledge and are trying to make Amo seem much less informed.  I mostly do not agree with what Amo has been taught, but I do not agree he is dumping.  If that is the case then it is us to that are doing the "dumping".

Offline 4WD

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #31 on: Sun Mar 17, 2019 - 15:43:16 »
I mostly do not agree with what Amo has been taught, but I do not agree he is dumping.
I think that Amo is an habitual dumper.

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #32 on: Tue Mar 19, 2019 - 05:20:31 »
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Beam: #29
 I have never ever suggested that those under the laws of the old covenant will not be saved.

Those under the laws of the old covenant will not be saved--absolutely NOT! Because those are those under the covenant and laws of their OWN OATH because that's what 'the old covenant' is: MAN'S undertaking: 'Yes Lord, we will; we swear, we believe, we love you so much o Lord' ... the hypocrites they CANNOT HELP, they are totally depraved, corrupt, past hope. They CANNOT be saved; they MUST first DIE and be BORN again, and THAT DOES NOT DEPEND ON MAN.

So, in order to ensure a never ending no winner no looser debate, CREATE the false subject of supposedly God's 'Old Covenant', and start cavil over it like dogs over a bare,  inedible even unchewable, lifeless, tasteless, bone! 

« Last Edit: Tue Mar 19, 2019 - 05:25:11 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline Hobie

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #33 on: Tue Jul 16, 2019 - 15:14:54 »
The old and new covenant are the same Law.

Offline piecrust

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Re: Sabbath or Sunday: What did Jesus teach and show in scripture?
« Reply #34 on: Fri Jul 19, 2019 - 02:50:13 »
We cannot trust the traditions of men.  But that's what the sabbatarians do.