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Author Topic: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism  (Read 21098 times)

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Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #420 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 11:53:23 »
https://onepeterfive.com/poland-sunday-rest/

Interesting article. Strange, the article seems to indicate that the people want this in order to leave communism behind, while at the same time admitting that the churches are empty, and everyone seems to be at the malls. Poor people, they obviously do not really know what they want, so the heavily Catholic influenced government is going to make their decision for them. As usual, unions are involved, as predicted.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #420 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 11:53:23 »

Online Shubee

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #421 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 13:11:40 »
Quote
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-sunday/new-italian-government-plans-to-curb-sunday-shopping-di-maio-idUKKCN1LP0HG

I see this news item as a refutation of Ellen White's revelatory experience and also the resulting long-time Seventh-day Adventist expectation that Sunday laws would begin in the United States first and then spread to other nations.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #421 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 13:11:40 »

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #422 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 18:18:18 »
I see this news item as a refutation of Ellen White's revelatory experience and also the resulting long-time Seventh-day Adventist expectation that Sunday laws would begin in the United States first and then spread to other nations.

I never understood that Sunday laws had to start here first and then spread to other nations. As I understand it, when they are established on a national level in this nation built upon Protestant and biblical principles of freedom and liberty maintained by a separation of church and state, nothing will be left to stand in the way of the final beast of biblical prophecy. The image of the first beast of Rev. 13 will have been established leading to global enforcement of the papacy once again.

Sunday laws have been on the books in many nations now for a long long time. Some never got rid of them. This makes it impossible that they would start in the US. Please do share where EGW said they would start here first and then spread abroad. I don't recall such, though she did specifically address US Sunday laws as a sign that persecution would soon begin and the judgments be poured out upon those who worship the beast.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #423 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 20:15:01 »
Quote
Sunday laws have been on the books in many nations now for a long long time. Some never got rid of them. This makes it impossible that they would start in the US. Please do share where EGW said they would start here first and then spread abroad.

History will be repeated. False religion will be exalted. The first day of the week, a common working day, possessing no sanctity whatever, will be set up as was the image of Babylon. All nations and tongues and peoples will be commanded to worship this spurious sabbath. . . . The decree enforcing the worship of this day is to go forth to all the world.--7BC 976 (1897).  {LDE 134.5}

As America, the land of religious liberty, shall unite with the papacy in forcing the conscience and compelling men to honor the false sabbath, the people of every country on the globe will be led to follow her example.--6T 18 (1900).  {LDE 135.1}

Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world.--6T 395 (1900).  {LDE 135.3}

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #423 on: Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 20:15:01 »

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #424 on: Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 11:09:15 »
History will be repeated. False religion will be exalted. The first day of the week, a common working day, possessing no sanctity whatever, will be set up as was the image of Babylon. All nations and tongues and peoples will be commanded to worship this spurious sabbath. . . . The decree enforcing the worship of this day is to go forth to all the world.--7BC 976 (1897).  {LDE 134.5}

As America, the land of religious liberty, shall unite with the papacy in forcing the conscience and compelling men to honor the false sabbath, the people of every country on the globe will be led to follow her example.--6T 18 (1900).  {LDE 135.1}

Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world.--6T 395 (1900).  {LDE 135.3}


Your taking lead out to mean the very first, which is not possible. Your first quote plainly states that history will repeat itself, the US helps create an image to the beast that was before it, which beast exalted the day of the sun by law. She leads out by way of example, as the undisputed leader of the free world especially pertaining to freedom of religion. When she abandons this, other nations will no doubt follow her example. This does not mean she is the first to ever do it.

There were Sunday laws being enforced in this nation during her day, and many still in place and being enforced in other nations as well. Her points were regarding a national Sunday law in this once Protestant nation of religious liberty that will set the stage or lead out if you will in the establishment of a global law. When we submit as one of the prime leaders of the free world and religious liberty, there will be little to nothing standing in the way of a global law. Others who have not yet done so will no doubt speedily follow our example.


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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #424 on: Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 11:09:15 »



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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #425 on: Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 14:34:42 »
Catholic countries passing laws that are supportive of Catholic traditions never was an issue for Ellen G. White.  For Sister White, the expected crisis will be the United States, a Protestant country, passing laws that favor Catholic delusions and falsehoods.

When our nation shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery.--5T 712 (1889).  {LDE 128.2} 

Protestants will throw their whole influence and strength on the side of the papacy. By a national act enforcing the false sabbath they will give life and vigor to the corrupt faith of Rome, reviving her tyranny and oppression of conscience.--Mar 179 (1893).  {LDE 128.3}

The prophecy of Revelation 13 declares that the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns shall cause "the earth and them which dwell therein" to worship the papacy--there symbolized by the beast "like unto a leopard." . . . This prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy. . . .  {LDE 129.2} 

Political corruption is destroying love of justice and regard for truth, and even in free America rulers and legislators, in order to secure public favor, will yield to the popular demand for a law enforcing Sunday observance.--GC 578, 579, 592 (1911).  {LDE 129.3} 

Protestantism shall give the hand of fellowship to the Roman power. Then there will be a law against the Sabbath of God's creation, and then it is that God will do His "strange work" in the earth.--7BC 910 (1886).  {LDE 130.1}

The professed Protestant world will form a confederacy with the man of sin, and the church and the world will be in corrupt harmony.--7BC 975 (1891).  {LDE 130.3} 

Romanism in the Old World, and apostate Protestantism in the New, will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts.--GC 616 (1911).

When the leading churches of the United States, uniting upon such points of doctrine as are held by them in common, shall influence the state to enforce their decrees and to sustain their institutions, then Protestant America will have formed an image of the Roman hierarchy, and the infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result. . . .  {LDE 131.1} 

The enforcement of Sundaykeeping on the part of Protestant churches is an enforcement of the worship of the papacy. . . .  {LDE 131.2} 

 In the very act of enforcing a religious duty by secular power, the churches would themselves form an image to the beast; hence the enforcement of Sundaykeeping in the United States would be an enforcement of the worship of the beast and his image.--GC 445, 448, 449 (1911).  {LDE 131.3}
 
When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near.--5T 451 (1885).  {LDE 131.4}

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #426 on: Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 16:18:22 »
Quote
In light of the fact, that Sunday keepers have repeatedly throughout history appealed to the civil authorities to enforce their day of worship upon all, how is it that those who keep the fourth commandment by faith in the word of God, are the ones always accused of being legalistic?

You misunderstand what legalism is. For a good understanding of the legalistic mindset, please consider what Ellen G. White wrote about legalistic Seventh-day Adventists: http://everythingimportant.org/gospel/7faces.htm

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #427 on: Sun Sep 16, 2018 - 19:21:05 »
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True faith does not make void the law of God, but rather establishes the same.

Then you need to address fellow church members whose bold and open sins are causing great injury to the cause of truth., i.e., Those Sanctimonious Enablers of Genocide.

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #428 on: Sat Sep 22, 2018 - 12:54:49 »
You misunderstand what legalism is. For a good understanding of the legalistic mindset, please consider what Ellen G. White wrote about legalistic Seventh-day Adventists: http://everythingimportant.org/gospel/7faces.htm


1. My statement you quoted was not in relation at all to legalistic SDA's.
2. You have no idea what I understand or not, concerning legalism.
3. The observation of, and belief in Sunday sacredness can be nothing but legalism, it cannot have anything to do with faith in God's word or observance by faith or conviction of the Holy spirit of God. Thus it relies upon fallen humanities legal systems to support and sustain itself. 

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #429 on: Sat Sep 22, 2018 - 13:09:55 »
Then you need to address fellow church members whose bold and open sins are causing great injury to the cause of truth., i.e., Those Sanctimonious Enablers of Genocide.


Your need not presume, what I need to do. I am not you, never have been you, and never was meant to be you. It is the body of Christ, not the body of Shubee. You are a member of the body, not the body. As such you have a distinct purpose that is part of the whole, others may be involved in the same, but they are not subject to you or your leading regarding the same.

I have not attended Church but a handful of times in many years. I voiced my concerns for many years while attending, regarding the issues at hand which I was convicted needed to be addressed. Few shared my concerns. Eventually I decided not to subject myself to indoctrination any longer by helping fill the pews. There are a whole lot more problems in the denomination than some SDA's supporting abortion if that is your main beef. Nevertheless, please do expose and confront the same as you are convicted to do so. May God bless your specific functions as a part of Christ's body.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #430 on: Sat Sep 22, 2018 - 14:05:31 »
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There are a whole lot more problems in the denomination than some SDA's supporting abortion if that is your main beef.

Let me explain. I'm exalting two incredibly simple truths. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Also: Christians are morally obligated to reform themselves first, their own family second and then their church before they begin to preach to their neighbors. Jesus would agree. He said: "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:5.

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #431 on: Sat Sep 22, 2018 - 17:54:55 »

Let me explain. I'm exalting two incredibly simple truths. "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Also: Christians are morally obligated to reform themselves first, their own family second and then their church before they begin to preach to their neighbors. Jesus would agree. He said: "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:5.

"Judge ye not lest ye be judged the same."

Your list is in proper order, but your confusing preaching and judging. Preaching the truth is not judging, though all will be judged by truth. If we all wait until we personally, our families, and our churches are perfect before we preach, then no one in the know will ever preach. If we preach the truth with the desire to save the deceived, we are not condemning, but attempting to save from deception at the very least. No one can avoid preaching. Our lives even completely apart from what we preach or speak, are a witness to truth or error.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #432 on: Sat Sep 22, 2018 - 19:30:07 »
Quote
If we preach the truth with the desire to save the deceived, we are not condemning, but attempting to save from deception at the very least.

According to Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist prophetess, Seventh-day Adventists are deceived to a staggering degree. "Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations." So why aren't you trying to save them? http://everythingimportant.org/Laodicea/

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #433 on: Sun Sep 23, 2018 - 09:35:50 »
According to Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist prophetess, Seventh-day Adventists are deceived to a staggering degree. "Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations." So why aren't you trying to save them? http://everythingimportant.org/Laodicea/


If you would like, I will quote from EGW concerning SDA's responsibility to the world and countless souls around them as well. Then I can ask you why you aren't trying to save them instead of spending so much time on SDA's who all have the truth right in front of them but refuse to examine and incorporate it. This I could do of course as though what I do and am convicted of was the standard for you and all others. As though the church was the body of Amo, rather than the body of Christ.

I brought my concerns to the church, they had no interest, I decided the best statement I could make was to stop attending. They can and have asked why, but have no interest in in any depth concerning the same. Having been family to a Pastor and witnessing many major divisions caused within churches by those wishing to impose or force there own views or concerns upon all, I opted out of such. I chose a more silent and less divisive form of testimony. There are countless billions living in deception to share truth with outside the church, a work that must be done. I am not you, nor was I ever meant to be. Please do follow your own convictions and work for and in the church. May God bless your efforts according to His will.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #434 on: Sun Sep 23, 2018 - 17:42:23 »
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There are countless billions living in deception to share truth with outside the church, a work that must be done.

Your obsession with typical SDA paranoia about Sunday laws in the United States fulfilling the mark of the beast prophecy while you blindly dismiss real crises going on now is the deception that you have chosen for yourself.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #435 on: Sun Sep 23, 2018 - 19:29:15 »
Quote
If you would like, I will quote from EGW concerning SDA's responsibility to the world and countless souls around them as well. Then I can ask you why you aren't trying to save them instead of spending so much time on SDA's who all have the truth right in front of them but refuse to examine and incorporate it.

My fellowship is proclaiming the truest and fullest understanding of the three angel's messages. Nevertheless, it takes no time at all to ask SDAs how they feel about being sanctimonious enablers of genocide.

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #436 on: Fri Sep 28, 2018 - 08:56:19 »
Your obsession with typical SDA paranoia about Sunday laws in the United States fulfilling the mark of the beast prophecy while you blindly dismiss real crises going on now is the deception that you have chosen for yourself.

Of course it is, we should all be following Shubee's perfect example of what everyone should be doing.

Testimonies for the Church Volume 6, Page 60-62

The third angel’s message is to be given with power. The power of the proclamation of the first and second messages is to be intensified in the third. In the Revelation John says of the heavenly messenger who unites with the third angel: “I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice.” Revelation 18:1, 2. We are in danger of giving the third angel’s message in so indefinite a manner that it does not impress the people. So many other interests are brought in that the very message which should be proclaimed with power becomes tame and voiceless. At our camp meetings a mistake has been made. The Sabbath question has been touched upon, but has not been presented as the great test for this time. While the churches profess to believe in Christ, they are violating the law which Christ Himself proclaimed from Sinai. The Lord bids us: “Show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.” Isaiah 58:1. The trumpet is to give a certain sound.

When you have a congregation before you for only two weeks, do not defer the presentation of the Sabbath question until everything else is presented, supposing that you thus pave the way for it. Lift up the standard—the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Make this the important theme. Then, by your strong arguments, make it of still greater force. Dwell more on the Revelation. Read, explain, and enforce its teaching.
Our warfare is aggressive. Tremendous issues are before us
, yea, and right upon us. Let our prayers ascend to God that the four angels may still hold the four winds, that they may not blow to injure or destroy until the last warning has been given to the world. Then let us work in harmony with our prayers. Let nothing lessen the force of the truth for this time. The present truth is to be our burden. The third angel’s message must do its work of separating from the churches a people who will take their stand on the platform of eternal truth.

Our message is a life-and-death message, and we must let it appear as it is, the great power of God. We are to present it in all its telling force. Then the Lord will make it effectual. It is our privilege to expect large things, even the demonstration of the Spirit of God. This is the power that will convict and convert the soul.

The perils of the last days are upon us, and in our work we are to warn the people of the danger they are in. Let not the solemn scenes which prophecy has revealed be left untouched. If our people were half awake, if they realized the nearness of the events portrayed in the Revelation, a reformation would be wrought in our churches, and many more would believe the message. We have no time to lose; God calls upon us to watch for souls as they that must give an account. Advance new principles, and crowd in the clear-cut truth. It will be as a sword cutting both ways. But be not too ready to take a controversial attitude. There will be times when we must stand still and see the salvation of God. Let Daniel speak, let the Revelation speak, and tell what is truth. But whatever phase of the subject is presented, uplift Jesus as the center of all hope, “the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright and morning Star.” Revelation 22:16.


Testimonies for the Church Volume 6, Page 241

Medical missionary work is in no case to be divorced from the gospel ministry. The Lord has specified that the two shall be as closely connected as the arm is with the body. Without this union neither part of the work is complete. The medical missionary work is the gospel in illustration.

But God did not design that the medical missionary work should eclipse the work of the third angel’s message. The arm is not to become the body. The third angel’s message is the gospel message for these last days, and in no case is it to be overshadowed by other interests and made to appear an unessential consideration. When in our institutions anything is placed above the third angel’s message, the gospel is not there the great leading power.

Counsels to Writers and Editors, Page 26 & 27

The Three Angels’ Messages—The proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages has been located by the word of Inspiration. Not a peg or pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages than to substitute the New Testament for the Old. The Old Testament is the gospel in figures and symbols. The New Testament is the substance. One is as essential as the other. The Old Testament presents lessons from the lips of Christ, and these lessons have not lost their force in any particular. The first and second messages were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they shall be repeated to those who are seeking for the truth. By pen and voice we are to sound the proclamation, showing their order, and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angel’s message. There cannot be a third without the first and second. These messages we are to give to the world in publications, in discourses, showing in the line of prophetic history the things that have been, and the things that will be.—Manuscript 32, 1896.

Counsels to Writers and Editors, Page 177
Chapter 25—Literature in the Closing Work


The End of All Things at Hand—The great and wonderful work of the last gospel message is to be carried on now as it has never been before. The world is to receive the light of truth through an evangelizing ministry of the Word in our books and periodicals. Our publications are to show that the end of all things is at hand. I am bidden to say to our publishing houses: “Lift up the standard; lift it up higher. Proclaim the third angel’s message, that it may be heard by all the world. Let it be seen that ‘here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.’ Revelation 14:12. Let our literature give the message as a witness to all the world.”

Our workers should now be encouraged to give their first attention to books that deal with the evidences of our faith,—books that teach the doctrines of the Bible, and that will prepare a people to stand in the trying times before us.—Testimonies for the Church 9:61 (1909).

The Colporteur Evangelist, Page 100

Books and Periodicals

The great and wonderful work of the last gospel message is to be carried on now as it has never been before. The world is to receive the light of truth through an evangelizing ministry of the word in our books and periodicals. Our publications are to show that the end of all things is at hand. I am bidden to say to our publishing houses: “Lift up the standard; lift it up higher. Proclaim the third angel’s message, that it may be heard by all the world. Let it be seen that ’here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.’ Revelation 14:12. Let our literature give the message as a witness to all the world.”

« Last Edit: Fri Sep 28, 2018 - 09:03:40 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #437 on: Fri Sep 28, 2018 - 09:06:40 »
My fellowship is proclaiming the truest and fullest understanding of the three angel's messages. Nevertheless, it takes no time at all to ask SDAs how they feel about being sanctimonious enablers of genocide.


Good for you. Go to, do your work. You are wasting your time telling me it is what I have to do.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #438 on: Fri Sep 28, 2018 - 11:49:32 »
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It takes no time at all to ask SDAs how they feel about being sanctimonious enablers of genocide.

So Amo, how do you feel about being a sanctimonious enabler of genocide?

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #439 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 11:17:21 »
So Amo, how do you feel about being a sanctimonious enabler of genocide?


Not really very concerned about your petty judgments of the why's and wherefores of my actions, or intents.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #440 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 11:45:59 »
Quote
Not really very concerned about your petty judgments of the why's and wherefores of my actions, or intents.

What is petty about your confession of shamefully transparent obsession with typical SDA paranoia about Sunday laws in the United States fulfilling the mark of the beast prophecy while blindly dismissing real crises going on now?

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #441 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 11:51:18 »
What is a Shubertarian?

Genocide pushed by SDA's and it isn't about their attitude towards abortion?

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #442 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 12:20:57 »

What is petty about your confession of shamefully transparent obsession with typical SDA paranoia about Sunday laws in the United States fulfilling the mark of the beast prophecy while blindly dismissing real crises going on now?

There are countless real live crisis going on all over the world at this very moment. I am not subject to address this particular one regardless of your opinion otherwise. SDA's supporting abortion as an acceptable from of birth control is certainly wrong. Please do continue to address it as you are convicted to do so. I simply am not subject to the dictates of your conscience, concerning what I should address. Your attempts to manipulate or impose a guilt trip upon me for not joining you are a waste of time. Nevertheless, you are of course free to do as you wish.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #443 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 12:34:16 »
Quote
Genocide pushed by SDA's and it isn't about their attitude towards abortion?

The record shows that genocide is both sanctioned and orchestrated by SDAs and that includes SDAs in good standing performing abortions in SDA hospitals. Unquestionably, tolerance of many indisputable evils persists in the SDA church because of sanctimonious enablers of genocide. http://everythingimportant.org/Laodicea/

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #444 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 16:51:36 »
http://www1.salvationarmy.org/IHQ/www_ihq_isjc.nsf/vw-sublinks/442678BFBEEB1E72802578F80009CE61

A Call for Climate Justice - Release 7

Quote
What WE, the church, can do

Beyond our lives as individuals, we the church are also called to communal action for climate justice. Here are some ways

Confess: The fact is that all of us as human beings have demonstrated attitudes and lifestyles that devalue creation. We have all abused that which we were given to steward. This may have been a wrong that we were not even aware of. Still, we are called to humbly confess it, and resolve to make a change.

Engage: Begin biblically based conversations within your local congregation about creation care. Leading a small group bible study or hosting a special event is a good way of initiating discussion.

Learn: Take advantage of ISJC and other online resources to begin a social justice conversation at your home church. We would recommend the Jesus and Justice as a useful, free bible study resource.

Pray: Remember in prayer those most vulnerable to climate change consequences and those who are unable to cope.

Inform: Invite informed speakers, ministers or authors to your church to help raise awareness of Climate Change and encourage response.

Keep the Sabbath: It could be the most radical thing a church can do for environmental stewardship—to commit to keeping the Sabbath. The scriptures make constant reference to rest and care for the land as well as for people on the Sabbath. Spending time with family and friends and enjoying the free outdoors is an act of resistance to the pressures of materialism and consumerism.

Do a Church Energy and Waste Audit: This can be an excellent way to encourage energy consciousness within the church while reducing your carbon footprint and utilities bill. This activity provides a good opportunity for youth involvement. Get started here.


The Sabbath referred to above is of course the man made Sunday Sabbath, not the Sabbath of scripture. It seems that Sunday sacredness in an intricate part of course, of the papacies war against materialism or consumerism, or shall we say Capitalism.

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #445 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 17:07:14 »
https://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=32245

A Sabbath for the Earth and the Poor: The Challenge of Pope Francis

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“Sunday, like the Jewish Sabbath, is meant to be a day which heals our relationships with God, with ourselves, with others and with the world.” (Laudato Si’ para 237)

We live in a world where people and nature are more often valued according to their economic capacity or usefulness to humans, rather than their intrinsic value as God’s creation. In order to be liberated from this commodification, consumerism and utilitarianism, the Sabbath reminds us to rediscover a sense of awe and wonder, and to see the beauty in creation and also in relationships, especially with the poor and marginalised. The conference will seek to: help us understand current realities; find ways to live out and advocate a different value system; and provide a space for creativity, celebration and contemplation.

God gave the seventh day Sabbath to the world 2000 years before there ever was a Jew. He calls it His Sabbath all throughout scripture, not the Jewish Sabbath. What does it mean when humanity replaces His Sabbath for the world, with their own Sabbath for the world? What has it meant, does it mean, and will it mean again in the future when they enforce such by law? All of course to combat evil consumerism and or Capitalism.

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #446 on: Sat Sep 29, 2018 - 17:42:18 »
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mercynotsacrifice/2015/09/07/capitalisms-war-on-the-sabbath/

Capitalism’s war on the Sabbath

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One of the most important events in labor history happened in Exodus 20:10 when God commanded the Israelite people to rest every seventh day: “The seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work – you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.” The concept of resting every seven days is one of the most important legacies of the Judeo-Christian tradition. And modern capitalism has declared war on this idea of Sabbath.

When I was a kid, it was still taboo in the South to work or do secular activities on Sundays (at least for middle-class people). As a kid, I never made the connection that the people behind the counter at Luby’s Cafeteria where we went every Sunday after church couldn’t go to church themselves because they had to make our food ready for us to eat it after church. We could eat out on Sundays, but the one thing we would not do was go shopping on Sundays, because Sunday was supposed to be a day for God and family (if you’re not working in the service industry). For much of my life, honoring the Sabbath was a sort of moralistic duty to God. It never occurred to me that God created this concept as a means for people to enjoy life.

Reading Abraham Heschel’s The Sabbath in my first semester of seminary was a huge turning point for me. Heschel argues that all of God’s laws should be cherished as gifts, and that God’s command to keep the Sabbath is the greatest gift of all. Growing up evangelical Christian, I had often filtered everything in the Bible through the oversimplified lens of law and grace. Keeping the Sabbath belonged to the law of the old covenant, which Jesus had
supposedly flouted with his Sabbath healing. But Heschel showed me my immaturity. When Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for humanity, not humanity for the Sabbath,” he was in perfect agreement with what Heschel wrote. God does not make arbitrary rules for the sake of his honor and glory; God’s commands are for the sake of our flourishing, including commands related to spending time with him.

What many privileged Christians refuse to recognize is that our economic system has a direct impact on peoples’ abilities to spend time with God. Whenever we roll our eyes about living wage campaigns or say that the market should decide what people earn, what we’re saying is that we don’t care whether these people have time for daily quiet time devotionals or small group Bible studies or even going to church at all. To be able to do any of those things requires a minimal level of economic stability. Studies are showing that one of the biggest unchurched demographics in our culture right now are working class people. Why? Because when you’re paid minimum wage, you have to work more than one job to pay your rent. And that means you don’t have time to be plugged into a faith community.

Of course, it’s not just among the working class where capitalism is destroying the possibility of Sabbath. Middle-upper class people find plenty of ways to keep ourselves frenetically busy when we don’t have to be because we have bought into the religion of meritocracy and competition over the religion of grace that Jesus came to give us. Grace is the concept of Sabbath applied to every facet of life. It’s not just taking a day off, but refusing to throw ourselves into the rat race with everybody else because we believe that we are accepted and loved unconditionally by God. The enemy of grace is meritocracy, but many middle-upper class American Christians choose meritocracy over grace for the sake of our own self-justification.

When we choose meritocracy over grace, we are choosing the religion of capitalism over the religion of Christianity. I really believe that the clash between capitalism and Christianity will define the 21st century as much as the clash between capitalism and communism defined the 20th century. My hope is that somehow the courage of Christians who believe in God’s grace will be able to withstand the furious race towards greater efficiency, productivity, and profit. I want for my sons to become adults in a world that is less addicted to its own anxiety and more open to the beauty of the Sabbath.


There you have it. Big bad Communism is defeated as Christians enemies, now big bad Capitalism must be defeated in order to be able to keep this worlds Sabbath. Rome's plan to a T. The establishment of their man created holy day by law will help defeat evil Capitalism which is keeping us from keeping the same. Capitalism = forced shopping and or working upon all. Sunday laws would alleviate the burden of this great evil. BALONEY!

Online Shubee

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #447 on: Tue Oct 02, 2018 - 07:25:26 »
Sanctimonious enablers of genocide are not prophets. Even Sister White was wrong in her predictions on the sequence of events to unfold beyond her day. http://everythingimportant.org/EllenGWhite/

Offline Amo

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #448 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 08:45:49 »
Sanctimonious enablers of genocide are not prophets. Even Sister White was wrong in her predictions on the sequence of events to unfold beyond her day. http://everythingimportant.org/EllenGWhite/


Why don't you stop trying to hijack the topic of this thread, and start another one about the sanctimonious enablers of genocide? Then bring your accusations to that thread, instead of sending us somewhere else to read about said accusations.

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #449 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 11:40:40 »
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Why don't you stop trying to hijack the topic of this thread, and start another one about the sanctimonious enablers of genocide?

I believe that I'm on topic. Recall the opening post. I assert that legalistic minds live for fanatical ideas, that having nothing to do but to exalt outdated eschatology is fanaticism, and that legalists and sanctimonious enablers of genocide have no right to talk. 

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #450 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 12:42:16 »
What is this Shubertarian nonsense?

Shubee, do you believe you are an anointed prophet?

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #451 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 14:23:08 »
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Shubee, do you believe you are an anointed prophet?

I am a Seventh-day Millerite and believe that I'm a divinely ordained prophet-trainee.

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #452 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 15:11:07 »
I am a Seventh-day Millerite and believe that I'm a divinely ordained prophet-trainee.

In other words, you are a nutjob.

I won't get into the 7th day thing.

However, history has shown that Millerism is a farce.  And you being a prophet?  Or Prophet trainee?   rofl 
« Last Edit: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 15:13:19 by Texas Conservative »

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #453 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 15:16:41 »
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In other words, you are a nutjob.

Your repudiation of Seventh-day Millerite beliefs is nuttier.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Sabbath, Sunday, and Legalism
« Reply #454 on: Sat Oct 06, 2018 - 15:19:12 »
If someone is a Millerite, they are by definition “Not For Prophet”.

 

     
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