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Author Topic: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?  (Read 9038 times)

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Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2011, 03:19:37 AM »
Quote
Beta has no desire to be obediant to the OT strictures. She wishes to pick and choose which ones to follow and after some conversing with her it is only OT Sabbath that she follows. All the other 613 OT commands she ignores. As for the doctrine she believes, that is somewhat of mystery.
I have met people like that. I cannot follow their system of belief at all.

As to restoring Sabbath to Saturday, I believe it is a true move of God.  However, it has to be restored PROPERLY, meaning that the distinction that it is a covenant sign of the Israelites (both natural and prostelites) and not incumbant on the gentile believers has to be clearly understood, and that applies to both the Saturday sabbath keepers and the Sunday keepers.

As to the rest of the 613 Mosaic commands, analysis needs to be made on how and whether each command can be worked out in a New Covenant setting, and by WHOM.

Actually, our Rabbi and the director of our brotherhood of congregations are working together on that very book.  They are posting chapters as they become available:

h**p://www.tikkunamerica.org/halachah.php (replace the ** with tt)

Friend I can see you have an 'open mind and one day it will be rewarded
AS LONG as you don't get 'bogged down in studies.
THUTH IS REVEALED ...not learned !  ::amen!::

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2011, 03:19:37 AM »

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2011, 07:46:15 AM »

Beta has no desire to be obediant to the OT strictures. She wishes to pick and choose which ones to follow and after some conversing with her it is only OT Sabbath that she follows. All the other 613 OT commands she ignores. As for the doctrine she believes, that is somewhat of mystery.

You profess to know me so well you can speak for me ?
Would you like to take my place on Judgement day ? 

Just going by what we had discussed about the issue in an earlier thread. I am entitled to my assessment of your belief's in that context.

And no, I've got my own Judgement Day to face thank you, and that will be enough.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2011, 07:46:15 AM »

Offline gospel

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2011, 10:53:37 AM »
Were the 613 commands not the ones nailed to the cross? I don't believe the 10 commandments were. Have we commenced to murder, lust, covet and dishonor our parents, etc?

Thank you Jaime...at last someone who knows the difference !!!   ::hug::

It would appear that neither you or Jaime understands the real difference is that God approves us without meeting the requirements and commandments

Whereas under the OT you must meet the requirements and commandments to gain God's approval

In its most extreme application

Under the New Covenant a murderer can be forgiven, Saved and inherit eternal life

Not so under the Old

Under the New Covenant God approves us while we are yet sinners

Way before we are anywhere near getting it all right

Indeed after we are saved most of us never get it all right

I dare say none of us but as you know there are some people in this forum who claim to never sin  ::doh::

That's another topic altogether

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2011, 10:47:48 AM »
Quote
It would appear that neither you or Jaime understands the real difference is that God approves us without meeting the requirements and commandments

Whereas under the OT you must meet the requirements and commandments to gain God's approval

In its most extreme application

Under the New Covenant a murderer can be forgiven, Saved and inherit eternal life

Not so under the Old

Wow!  Not at all in accordance with true knowledge.

13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;............................................ ..........Lev 4:13 (KJV)
20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. Lev 4:20 (KJV)

22 When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty;............................................ Lev 4:22 (KJV)
26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.Lev 4:26 (KJV)

27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;................Lev 4:27 (KJV)
31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the Lord; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.Lev 4:31 (KJV)

35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the Lord: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.Lev 4:35 (KJV)

1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. 3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. 4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. 5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. 6 For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him. 7 Thou art my hiding place; thou shalt preserve me from trouble; thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah. 8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye. 9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee. 10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the Lord, mercy shall compass him about. 11 Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart. Psalms 32:1-11 (KJV)

1 Lord, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob. 2 Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah. 3 Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger. 4 Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease. 5 Wilt thou be angry with us for ever? wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations? 6 Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee? 7 Shew us thy mercy, O Lord, and grant us thy salvation.Psalms 85:1-7 (KJV)

22 For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us. 23 Thy tacklings are loosed; they could not well strengthen their mast, they could not spread the sail: then is the prey of a great spoil divided; the lame take the prey. 24 And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity. Isaiah 33:22-24 (KJV)





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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2011, 10:47:48 AM »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2011, 10:17:56 AM »
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THUTH IS REVEALED ...not learned !

I think you meant "Truth..."

Partially true. It is both, actually. Otherwise this would not have appeared in scripture:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2011, 10:17:56 AM »



Offline djconklin

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2011, 04:39:50 PM »
>THUTH IS REVEALED ...not learned !

Actually, it is both.  God reveals truth to the inquiring mind.  You have to learn it.

Offline djconklin

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2011, 04:43:07 PM »
>it is the requirement of meeting them to attain God's Approval, That is what Has been nailed to the cross

The requirement for holiness before God remains the same.  That certainly wasn't the "handwriting that was against us" (cheirographon)--it was the record of our debt to Him because of our sins that was nailed through Christ at the Cross.  He died for our sins so that we didn't have to.

Offline truthseekerAB

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2012, 08:10:42 PM »
I have to tell you I recently have been profoundly studying this myself, and this is what I have come up with so far...any one that can refute this please provide proof from the bible only.  Not your own opinion.

1.  The 7th day Sabbath mentioned in Genesis and through Leviticus was a day of "rest" only.  The Sabbath worship did not make its presence until Leviticus 23, in which the "mosaic law" was discussed and presented and the Sabbath worship was instituted. 

2.  All before that time of Leviticus 23 people were worshiping, and yet the "sabbath" was never mentioned as a "day of worship".  We still understood the 7th day of the week to be a day of "rest".  Exodus 20:8-11

3. Then throughout the rest of time the Jews as well as others followed the "mosaic laws" which included the seventh day worship, as well as the New Moon Feasts, Passover, ect.  This of course included Jesus and the apostles. 

4.  Jesus is crucified, and therefore all the "Mosaic Law" is nailed to the cross....except of course for the 10 commandments which remain and of course are not part of the "mosaic law". 

5.  The 10 commandments make very clear what the Sabbath is intended for...there are no words left out, as we know God himself wrote the 10 commandments with his own finger.
The fourth commandment states:  “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Notice NOWHERE does it state to worship on the sabbath...HOWEVER...it does state to keep the Sabbath holy.  So how do we do that?  Lets hear what God has to say about that:

Exodus 16:23
He said to them, “This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’

Offline djconklin

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2012, 09:41:58 AM »
At least as late as the 5th century, how far beyond that we do not know, most Christians around the Mediterranean were worshiping on the Sabbath.

Offline pointmade

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2012, 06:47:58 AM »
Truthseeker: "I believe God wants us to worship every day....and to keep the Sabbath day "holy" by doing what he says to do.....which is to rest.  Worship God everyday, as often as you can, and go to church when you can to worship, and REST on the 7th day Sabbath, which is still in the 10 commandments. "

I enjoyed your research seeker.....You revealed many commandments meant for one people, "the Israelites."
As you are aware, there was more involved than "rest" on the Sabbath....one could not have a fire, travel, etc,
you can look these commandments up......
Would a "Jewish" Eskimo have a grievance when the temp reached 30 below 0?

Have you studied Paul's second letter to the church at Corinth?
What is you understanding of Chapter 3:1-8?

Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2012, 01:29:47 PM »
Truthseeker :
The Sabbath and the Feasts belong to the Lord Lev.23v2, and are God's 'appointed times, so we can not assume them to be part of the mosaic law which was done away in Christ.
Holy Convocations and Assemblies were instituted at those  Holy Days to hear GOD.
The Sabbath was no longer just a day of 'idleness.
6 days had been given to man to do his own work. Are you suggesting man was to 'worship and learn the Word of God during his own working-time while he lazed in bed on God''s own holy day ? Who would teach him ?
Maybe that is why there is no true knowledge of God in the world and everybody just believes what he picks up in his own time here and there.....besides ignoring the Sabbath and the Feasts  !!!   ::pondering:: ::headscratch:: ???

Offline Michael G

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2012, 07:18:32 PM »
Quote
Beta has no desire to be obediant to the OT strictures. She wishes to pick and choose which ones to follow and after some conversing with her it is only OT Sabbath that she follows. All the other 613 OT commands she ignores. As for the doctrine she believes, that is somewhat of mystery.
I have met people like that. I cannot follow their system of belief at all.

As to restoring Sabbath to Saturday, I believe it is a true move of God.  However, it has to be restored PROPERLY, meaning that the distinction that it is a covenant sign of the Israelites (both natural and prostelites) and not incumbant on the gentile believers has to be clearly understood, and that applies to both the Saturday sabbath keepers and the Sunday keepers.

As to the rest of the 613 Mosaic commands, analysis needs to be made on how and whether each command can be worked out in a New Covenant setting, and by WHOM.

Actually, our Rabbi and the director of our brotherhood of congregations are working together on that very book.  They are posting chapters as they become available:

h**p://www.tikkunamerica.org/halachah.php (replace the ** with tt)

Friend I can see you have an 'open mind and one day it will be rewarded
AS LONG as you don't get 'bogged down in studies.
THUTH IS REVEALED ...not learned !  ::amen!::

People who spend quality time in scripture in asking the Holy Spirit to guide them will never be deceived by the deceivers; The person who asks God, he will send the right teacher and explain to the reader what they are reading.

There is difference in just reading something and studying something ...for example it is always good to read the Bible every day, but like Philip said to the Ethiopian, "Do you understand what your reading"  and the Ethiopian said to Philip; "How will I understand unless one explain it to me.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 09:14:28 PM by Michael G »

Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2012, 03:55:45 AM »
Philip and the Ethiopian (for example) was quite appropriate 2000 years ago . God always did have His Prophets/Teachers to speak to and enlighten His people....with not much success going by the deception in the world today.Rev.12v9.
But that does not necessarily do away with God's direct communication more so as we advance in time. Joh.6v45
Joh.3 says JESUS is a teacher come from God and HE certainly supersedes any human teacher in my book....no offence intended.   ::smile::