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Author Topic: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?  (Read 8528 times)

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daq

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2011, 02:50:15 AM »
Beta ~

You know that YHWH cares and that is what is important because it is personal just like all of the Gospel. Those who love his name will surely not lose their reward because he is faithful to see his people through every trial. So long as we do not think that "keeping the Law" has anything to do with salvation because it leads directly to self righteousness. For this reason Talmudic Judaism is the most treacherous and dangerous of all the works religions in the world because in the outward appearance the adherent really can say that he is doing what YHWH commanded him to do, (albeit in the flesh). The reason those children of Israel died in the wilderness, (which LightHammer has made reference to) was because the Gospel preached to them was not mixed with FAITH. So ask yourself: what if it had been mixed with faith in them? ::smile::

Hebrews 4:2 KJV
2.  For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


LightHammer ~

The Seventh Day is Eternal: Soon the night will come where no man can dance, and when the seven thunders utter their voices the mystery of YHWH shall be finished in you, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets, and time shall not be more, and then shall you enter that rest and cease from your own dancing...::smile::


The seventh day is obviously not eternal. Today is the third day. The original seventh day wasn't even 24 hours.

The fact of the matter is clear. God calls the Sabbath the sign of the covenant between Him and Abraham. The Old Covenant. All the things of the Old Covenant foreshadowed the coming rest of Jesus Christ.

Like I said I honestly don't care if you guys want to gather on the seventh day. My own parish has mass every Saturday. Telling me that I must uphold the Sabbath Day as the means of rest is blasphemous and undermining to the work of Christ's resurrection.

Not to mention Hebrews 4 completely renders asunder the mere notion of that sentiment.


Since you quote me only with your comments I will respond accordingly. I have never told YOU or anyone else here that they MUST uphold the Sabbath Day as a means of rest. Further more if you are calling me blasphemous you only prove your own blasphemous and pius attitude in attempting to justify yourself before men, which Yeshua said is abomination in the site of YHWH, furthermore proving that you have indeed not entered into the rest in Christ by your faulty understanding of the facts and false accusations towards others to justify yourself.

John 5:16-17 KJV
16.  And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17.  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


"HITHERTO"  --  "HEOS ARTI"  --  "UNTIL NOW"

"MY FATHER WORKETH UNTIL NOW"

The Seventh Day is missing from time and will not be found in this world: to find it one must be where Christ is, as he prayed that all of his disciples would one day be, and they eventually were, and so now they are, and you are not, and he is seated at the right hand of the Father.



PS ~ WS If we really want to get "esoteric" concerning the "twelve bullocks under the great brazen Sea" then we should not be ignorant of this mystery, lest we should be wise in our own conceits: that blindness in part is occurred to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should forever fall? YHWH forbid, but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the nations, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the nations; how much more their fullness? For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Therefore we boast not against the branches: For they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted back in: for YHWH is able to graft them in again. For if we were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall those, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree which is now the body of us, in Christ, and both his and our own members? Ye are not your own, but a householder set in charge of fellow-servants indeed, even as the household of Stephanas the first fruits of Achaia. And in this way shall all Israel be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Verily then according to the Gospel they are adversaries among us: but according to the election, they are beloved through the fathers. And when you must cut them off they go under the altar and are given white robes until their household fellow-servants are cut off in the same way. And when we overcome they also shall rule and reign with Christ a thousand year Sabbath Day. Therefore the salvation of all Israel is dependent also upon our mercy and obedience to the commandments of Christ because it comes through the body of Christ, and its members, which are his great congregation. It is a "purgatorial kind of thing" for them, beloved of the fathers, For the gifts and calling of YHWH are not repented or withdrawn. For as we in times past have not believed YHWH, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through our mercy they also may obtain mercy. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of us should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, "As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the Seventh Day on this wise, "And 'Elohiym did rest the Seventh Day from all his works." And in this again, "IF they shall enter into my rest." Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he marks out a certain day, saying in David, "Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." For if Jeshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of YHWH.

Have ye understood all these things? "Therefore every scribe which is instructed into the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure things new and old"…

Luke 12:35-44 KJV
35.  Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36.  And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37.  Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38.  And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39.  And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40.  Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41.  Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42.  And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43.  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44.  Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

Cut them off in times of temptation ...
But give them their portion of meat in its due season ...
For as a great cloud of witnesses they do abide with us in our sojournings ...


Numbers 35:1-6 KJV
1.  And the Lord spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,
2.  Command the children of Israel, that they give unto the Levites of the inheritance of their possession cities to dwell in; and ye shall give also unto the Levites suburbs for the cities round about them.
3.  And the cities shall they have to dwell in; and the suburbs of them shall be for their cattle, and for their goods, and for all their beasts.
4.  And the suburbs of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.
5.  And ye shall measure from without the city on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits; and the city shall be in the midst: this shall be to them the suburbs of the cities.
6.  And among the cities which ye shall give unto the Levites there shall be six cities for refuge, which ye shall appoint for the manslayer, that he may flee thither: and to them ye shall add forty and two cities.


"And I looked, and Behold, abiding unwalled suburbs of the cities of the priests: each abiding suburb two thousand cubits to a quarter, and squared round about the four quarters of their circuits. FORTY TWO cities of the priests with all their suburbs, and the forty two continued from a new moon to another: month to month in all their sojourns and their goings, even month to month in all the foliage of their trees: month to month in all the fruits of all their goods, even month to month with all their beasts in all their suburbs!"

Re: The Animal Apocalypse
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2011, 06:33:33 AM »

Shabbat Shalom
In Yeshua
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 11:30:21 AM by daq »

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2011, 02:50:15 AM »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 05:26:30 AM »

That the first Christians did not keep the old covenant sabbath was deliberate, and reveals that the earliest Christians were well aware that in Christ they had been freed from the bondage of the old way of rules and regulations.

In Christ, we are free to worship God at anytime, anywhere and anyplace.
By "the first Christians" are you refering to the gentile congregations that Paul started or the Jewish congregation in Jerusalem under the leadership of James?

The latter kept sabbath very scrupusly.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 05:26:30 AM »

Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 05:42:31 AM »
According to my understanding of scripture..meeting on the 7th day is about as important as meeting on the Temple Mount

If we meet on Saturday as an act of obedience, unto holiness and righteousness we had better not forget to bring our lambs, goats and bulls

Seriously

At least that's what I tell my Muslim and Jewish friends ::lookaround::

I have news for you gospel - I am neither a Muslim nor a Jew !
As Christians /spiritual Israelites we understand that Christ has become/is our sacrifice. Why can you not see the sacrificial law fulfilled by Jesus ? Scripture says nothing about the 'Sabbath having been abolished, in fact we know that the first Disciples all continued to observe it ...untill they were persecuted and put to death. This then left a clear field for sunday-observance instituted by the council of nicea in AD 325. It is something MAN has changed ...not GOD ! It can not even be found in the Bible as we still do the Sabbath-law.

Offline ChristNU

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 07:30:51 AM »

That the first Christians did not keep the old covenant sabbath was deliberate, and reveals that the earliest Christians were well aware that in Christ they had been freed from the bondage of the old way of rules and regulations.

In Christ, we are free to worship God at anytime, anywhere and anyplace.
By "the first Christians" are you refering to the gentile congregations that Paul started or the Jewish congregation in Jerusalem under the leadership of James?

The latter kept sabbath very scrupusly.

By first Christians I am not referring to any race, gender or nationality, nor any congregation, city or geographical region that Christians may have gathered together in. Since God makes no distinction, surely we do not want to do so ourselves and so place ourselves at odds with the One we call our Lord. We would not want to be found working against God in a futile effort to re-erect the wall of separation which cost God the Father His own Son's shed blood on the cross to remove.

Indeed, it is quite evident that even today there are some who keep a certain day and call it the sabbath, and who do so scrupulously. That hardly makes it an example to follow, but rather reveals a need for the truth that will set them free.



"How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?" (Gal. 3:3)

"He has enabled us to be ministers of His new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life." (2 Cor. 3:6)

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 07:30:51 AM »

Online Ladonia

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 07:51:20 AM »
God does care. He cares that we listen to those whom He has placed in authority over us, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. In my Church we can worship on either Saturday night, or Sunday. Each is as valid as the other as regards which day to worship.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 07:51:20 AM »



Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 08:33:10 AM »
God does care. He cares that we listen to those whom He has placed in authority over us, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. In my Church we can worship on either Saturday night, or Sunday. Each is as valid as the other as regards which day to worship.

As I stated earlier - GOD does not really get a say in what HE wants .People would rather listen to men (churches) and what they decide.
It just is further proof that Christ is not really alive in them,living in them because if he were then HE would truly be their LORD 'AS LORD OF THE SABBATH .'
A LIVING CHRIST does not need sinful MEN to rule over spiritual matters.

Show a scripture that says 'Jesus is Lord of the sunday.'

Online Ladonia

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2011, 09:06:09 AM »
God does care. He cares that we listen to those whom He has placed in authority over us, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. In my Church we can worship on either Saturday night, or Sunday. Each is as valid as the other as regards which day to worship.

As I stated earlier - GOD does not really get a say in what HE wants .People would rather listen to men (churches) and what they decide.
It just is further proof that Christ is not really alive in them,living in them because if he were then HE would truly be their LORD 'AS LORD OF THE SABBATH .'
A LIVING CHRIST does not need sinful MEN to rule over spiritual matters.

Show a scripture that says 'Jesus is Lord of the sunday.'

Listen to the words of Jesus that He spoke to the Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth me", and "whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall be loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven". The power given by God, as incarnated in Jesus Christ, to the Apostles to change things on earth and they (the Apostles) did.

From worshiping on the first day of the week, to the elimination of circumcision, to the new ability to eat anything and still be acceptable to God, this power given to the Apostles cannot be denied. We've been through this before Beta, what is it that you can just not understand about the "New Law" that was brought forth by Jesus Christ?

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2011, 09:09:38 AM »
God does care. He cares that we listen to those whom He has placed in authority over us, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. In my Church we can worship on either Saturday night, or Sunday. Each is as valid as the other as regards which day to worship.

As I stated earlier - GOD does not really get a say in what HE wants .People would rather listen to men (churches) and what they decide.
It just is further proof that Christ is not really alive in them,living in them because if he were then HE would truly be their LORD 'AS LORD OF THE SABBATH .'
A LIVING CHRIST does not need sinful MEN to rule over spiritual matters.

Show a scripture that says 'Jesus is Lord of the sunday.'

I honestly feel sad that you think the Sabbath rest is in a day.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline DaveW

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 09:18:08 AM »
As Christians /spiritual Israelites we understand that Christ has become/is our sacrifice. Why can you not see the sacrificial law fulfilled by Jesus ? Scripture says nothing about the 'Sabbath having been abolished, in fact we know that the first Disciples all continued to observe it ...untill they were persecuted and put to death. This then left a clear field for sunday-observance instituted by the council of nicea in AD 325. It is something MAN has changed ...not GOD ! It can not even be found in the Bible as we still do the Sabbath-law.
Gentile christians are no more 'spiritual Israelites' than I am a "spiritual Scottsman" because I married a woman from clan Montgomery, or she a "spiritual German" because she married me.

But we are in covenant together. We are one in the Lord.

It was not changed at the first Nicean council, (325 ad) but sunday became the vogue for gentile congregations following the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad. It was an effort to avoid the Roman persecution of the Jews. Up til then 'christianity' was considered an offshoot of Pharasaic Judaism by pretty much everyone, Rome included.

Offline jojo50

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 09:54:14 AM »
Does God care if we worship on Saturday or Sunday? Some people go to Thursday night services.....is God angry with them?

many don't understand, God doesn't care what day, or night we worship him, just as long as we do.

(1).Colo.2:16,17- Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

(2).Rom.14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.(everyone thinks one day is better than another, everyone has their own beliefs).
[/color]  peace  ::smile::

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2011, 09:54:50 AM »
As Christians /spiritual Israelites we understand that Christ has become/is our sacrifice. Why can you not see the sacrificial law fulfilled by Jesus ? Scripture says nothing about the 'Sabbath having been abolished, in fact we know that the first Disciples all continued to observe it ...untill they were persecuted and put to death. This then left a clear field for sunday-observance instituted by the council of nicea in AD 325. It is something MAN has changed ...not GOD ! It can not even be found in the Bible as we still do the Sabbath-law.
Gentile christians are no more 'spiritual Israelites' than I am a "spiritual Scottsman" because I married a woman from clan Montgomery, or she a "spiritual German" because she married me.

But we are in covenant together. We are one in the Lord.

It was not changed at the first Nicean council, (325 ad) but sunday became the vogue for gentile congregations following the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad. It was an effort to avoid the Roman persecution of the Jews. Up til then 'christianity' was considered an offshoot of Pharasaic Judaism by pretty much everyone, Rome included.

He's right. The Early Church did gather on the Sabbath pretty much everywhere except in Europe and Africa. Even they agthered on both days Sunday and Saturday.

Hebrews 4 puts the nails in the coffin and buries the Sabbatarian imposition of the Old Covenant seven day mandate beneath the foot of the Risen King.

Hebrews is so clear that I wonder how Sabbatarians deal with it. The seventh day rest foreshadowed the coming of perpetual rest given in Christ. Hebrews and pretty much every other epistle teaches us that we enter that rest at the moment of our belief. Hebrews 4:8 puts the nails in the coffin.

"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline gospel

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 10:00:12 AM »
Quote
The Seventh Day is missing from time and will not be found in this world: to find it one must be where Christ is, as he prayed that all of his disciples would one day be, and they eventually were, and so now they are, and you are not, and he is seated at the right hand of the Father.




Actually

we too are seated with Him in the heavenly places Ephesians 2:6


we are with Him and He in us John 4:23


for we are His Body Ephesians 5:30


We have been raised with Him Colossians 2:12


Since the Sabbath is a sign

It is only important we know what it is a sign of

The bible says the Sabbath is a sign so we will know

He is the Lord who makes us Holy a people that belong to God

We now know

A day does not make us Holy

Only God makes us holy


Exodus 31:13
"Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 10:37:13 AM »
Ask the Samaritan leper.  He turned back from the commandment to put Jesus first in his agenda for the day.  Jesus was not happy with the 9 that obeyed him.  Put him first on the agenda for the week.

Peace
Acts 4:31 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spoke the word of God with boldness. 

Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love your law: and nothing shall offend them.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2011, 12:27:33 PM »
Romans 14:5

One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2011, 12:29:03 PM »
Romans 14:5

One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
That pretty much speaks for itself doesn't it