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Author Topic: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?  (Read 8594 times)

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Offline Ladonia

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2011, 10:51:07 AM »
Now that sounds like an interesting project about the other 613 commands. I'll be sure to be reading them as posted. But you said "your Rabbi"? Are you Christian with a Rabbi advisor?
I had one of those back in the mid '90s - Rabbi Shub from Sinai Synagogue in South Bend IN. (conservative)

I now attend a Messianic synagogue in the DC area.  Many Messianic congregations have the office of Rabbi as well, similar to traditional Jewish schuls.

Well, there you go! I have never met or talked with someone in a Messianic congregation before.  You could be called a revert, no? ::smile:: Do you keep Kosher?  I have an interest in that subject as I used to deliver Kosher meats for a couple of years to a company run by the Lubavitchers. It was more than just a job for me as I felt I was doing a good service to God and this particular community.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2011, 10:51:07 AM »

Offline DaveW

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2011, 10:59:00 AM »
I and my house keep to a "Messianic" or "Biblical" kosher (as opposed to rabbinic kosher). We do not eat pork or shell fish and a few other things.

We do NOT follow the rabbinic seperation of milk and meat. (strictly enforced in rabbinic kosher)

Having studied at a conservative schul, we understand and COULD keep rabbinicly kosher but at this point we see no need for that within our community.

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2011, 10:59:00 AM »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2011, 11:18:04 AM »
I had mentioned earlier that I believed the 10 commandments were not nailed to the cross and the 613 other laws were.

Col 2:13 You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Col 2:14 wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;


The 10 commandments (written by the finger of God) were placed INSIDE the Ark of the Covenant and the book of law (comprised of Moses' handwriting) was placed BESIDE the ark. Two separate things.


31:24 It happened, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of Yahweh, saying,
31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Yahweh your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Is it not true that the ten commandments POINT OUT sin, and the ceremonial laws of Moses WAS the REMEDY for sin. The ten commandments STILL points out sin, but Jesus is NOW the REMEDY for that sin. The ceremonial laws have now been replaced by Christ Jesus, as He is now our sacrifice and offering to God for sin. But the moral law of God, the Bible ten commandments still stand.

So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline gospel

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2011, 11:20:01 AM »
Were the 613 commands not the ones nailed to the cross? I don't believe the 10 commandments were. Have we commenced to murder, lust, covet and dishonor our parents, etc?

Can you say tangent?  ::shrug::

First of all it is not the contents of the 10 Commandments ( written in stone ) that have been done away it is the requirement of meeting them to attain God's Approval,

That is what Has been nailed to the cross

As to your direct implication, it was the Ten Commandments, which were the ministration of death that were nailed to the cross


But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

2 Corinthians 3:7


As you can see in the following verse, both were done away with

The Law, WITH its COMMANDMENTS and REGULATIONS


Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2011, 11:20:01 AM »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2011, 11:24:49 AM »
Were the 613 commands not the ones nailed to the cross? I don't believe the 10 commandments were. Have we commenced to murder, lust, covet and dishonor our parents, etc?

Can you say tangent?  ::shrug::

First of all it is not the contents of the 10 Commandments ( written in stone ) that have been done away it is the requirement of meeting them to attain God's Approval,

That is what Has been nailed to the cross

As to your direct implication, it was the Ten Commandments, which were the ministration of death that were nailed to the cross


But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

2 Corinthians 3:7


As you can see in the following verse, both were done away with

The Law, WITH its COMMANDMENTS and REGULATIONS


Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

See my reply #64 above. God's moral law STILL define and point out sin. Christ replaced the ceremonial law, the handwritings that were a witness against them, that was placed beside the ark not IN the ark like the 10 commandments. Definitely 2 separate and distinct things.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2011, 11:24:49 AM »



Offline gospel

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2011, 11:35:58 AM »
Were the 613 commands not the ones nailed to the cross? I don't believe the 10 commandments were. Have we commenced to murder, lust, covet and dishonor our parents, etc?

Can you say tangent?  ::shrug::

First of all it is not the contents of the 10 Commandments ( written in stone ) that have been done away it is the requirement of meeting them to attain God's Approval,

That is what Has been nailed to the cross

As to your direct implication, it was the Ten Commandments, which were the ministration of death that were nailed to the cross


But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,

2 Corinthians 3:7


As you can see in the following verse, both were done away with

The Law, WITH its COMMANDMENTS and REGULATIONS


Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

See my reply #64 above. God's moral law STILL define and point out sin. Christ replaced the ceremonial law, the handwritings that were a witness against them, that was placed beside the ark not IN the ark like the 10 commandments. Definitely 2 separate and distinct things.


Again Jaime

What Christ replaced was THE REQUIREMENT of meeting those commandments, ANY OF THEM, the 10 or the ceremonial IN ORDER TO MEET HIS APPROVAL

In the NEW Testament, Under the NEW Covenant

God APPROVES US FIRST

and Because of His Approval we go the tasks of learning to keep His Commandments


In the OLD testament, Under the OLD Covenant


We must keep His Commandments and requirements FIRST before gaining His Approval


So you're right, the contents of the 10 Commandments are not done away with, they are still in effect, it is still wrong to bear false witness and murder someone

However

God approves us without our fulfilling His Commandments

In other words

The Law is no longer the means by which we Gain God's Approval

In that sense, they are Nailed to the Cross

For Christ is the only means of attaining God's Approval

 ::reading::

"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2011, 12:27:58 PM »
I split the responses about Jewish tradition in Christianity into a separate thread to prevent this thread from being derailed.

"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline gospel

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2011, 12:55:10 PM »
Quote
Are you a Jew?

I am not, although I have found some Jewish ancestors way back.

I am in a Messianic synagogue at God's direction.

Rabbi Dan Juster describes what I went thru to get there as a "Ruth Calling," The internal pull to make the Jewish people my own people and the God of the Jews my God.

Isn't the Messianic movement fairly new? Like 1960's new? If you're looking for a Jewish tradition in Christendom why would you not simply follow the See of Jerusalem in the Eastern Orthodox or the Maronite Church?

These Jewish Churches are ancient. I mean going back to the Apostles ancient. I would just think that such would fit you better.

Not trying to start a sub-topic or anything. I'm just curious is all. When I was at my fourth foster home I used to play ball at a Messianic synagogue called Ahavat Yeshua. The people were really nice and everything so I have no issues with the denomination or anything like that.

I was just wondering how far you researched churches in traditional Christendom who hold to a more Jewish way.

The 3000 in Acts 2 were Messianic Jews.

Yes but they didn't form this 1860's movement that broke away from modern Judaism. They formed the see of Jerusalem, the governing Jewish See of the Early Church. I have no issues with Christians wanting to reconnect more deeply with their Jewish roots. I don't understand why anyone would go anywhere but the actual 2000 year old church the original Jewish Christians organized and hailed from.

I mean its the Mother Church. Why go anywhere else?

 ::doh::

Are you promoting the RCC again?
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2011, 01:00:38 PM »
Quote
Are you a Jew?

I am not, although I have found some Jewish ancestors way back.

I am in a Messianic synagogue at God's direction.

Rabbi Dan Juster describes what I went thru to get there as a "Ruth Calling," The internal pull to make the Jewish people my own people and the God of the Jews my God.

Isn't the Messianic movement fairly new? Like 1960's new? If you're looking for a Jewish tradition in Christendom why would you not simply follow the See of Jerusalem in the Eastern Orthodox or the Maronite Church?

These Jewish Churches are ancient. I mean going back to the Apostles ancient. I would just think that such would fit you better.

Not trying to start a sub-topic or anything. I'm just curious is all. When I was at my fourth foster home I used to play ball at a Messianic synagogue called Ahavat Yeshua. The people were really nice and everything so I have no issues with the denomination or anything like that.

I was just wondering how far you researched churches in traditional Christendom who hold to a more Jewish way.

The 3000 in Acts 2 were Messianic Jews.

Yes but they didn't form this 1860's movement that broke away from modern Judaism. They formed the see of Jerusalem, the governing Jewish See of the Early Church. I have no issues with Christians wanting to reconnect more deeply with their Jewish roots. I don't understand why anyone would go anywhere but the actual 2000 year old church the original Jewish Christians organized and hailed from.

I mean its the Mother Church. Why go anywhere else?

 ::doh::

Are you promoting the RCC again?

Well actually the See of Jerusalem is not in communion with Rome at the present time. So I guess I would be promoting the Eastern Orthodox.

I thought I split that post to a separate thread to prevent this type of complaining?
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline gospel

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2011, 01:24:03 PM »
Quote
Are you a Jew?

I am not, although I have found some Jewish ancestors way back.

I am in a Messianic synagogue at God's direction.

Rabbi Dan Juster describes what I went thru to get there as a "Ruth Calling," The internal pull to make the Jewish people my own people and the God of the Jews my God.

Isn't the Messianic movement fairly new? Like 1960's new? If you're looking for a Jewish tradition in Christendom why would you not simply follow the See of Jerusalem in the Eastern Orthodox or the Maronite Church?

These Jewish Churches are ancient. I mean going back to the Apostles ancient. I would just think that such would fit you better.

Not trying to start a sub-topic or anything. I'm just curious is all. When I was at my fourth foster home I used to play ball at a Messianic synagogue called Ahavat Yeshua. The people were really nice and everything so I have no issues with the denomination or anything like that.

I was just wondering how far you researched churches in traditional Christendom who hold to a more Jewish way.

The 3000 in Acts 2 were Messianic Jews.

Yes but they didn't form this 1860's movement that broke away from modern Judaism. They formed the see of Jerusalem, the governing Jewish See of the Early Church. I have no issues with Christians wanting to reconnect more deeply with their Jewish roots. I don't understand why anyone would go anywhere but the actual 2000 year old church the original Jewish Christians organized and hailed from.

I mean its the Mother Church. Why go anywhere else?

 ::doh::

Are you promoting the RCC again?

Well actually the See of Jerusalem is not in communion with Rome at the present time. So I guess I would be promoting the Eastern Orthodox.

I thought I split that post to a separate thread to prevent this type of complaining?

See of Jerusalem?

This is over my head, I have no idea what you are referring to ::headscratch::
"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Acts 20:27

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2011, 01:29:09 PM »
Quote
Are you a Jew?

I am not, although I have found some Jewish ancestors way back.

I am in a Messianic synagogue at God's direction.

Rabbi Dan Juster describes what I went thru to get there as a "Ruth Calling," The internal pull to make the Jewish people my own people and the God of the Jews my God.

Isn't the Messianic movement fairly new? Like 1960's new? If you're looking for a Jewish tradition in Christendom why would you not simply follow the See of Jerusalem in the Eastern Orthodox or the Maronite Church?

These Jewish Churches are ancient. I mean going back to the Apostles ancient. I would just think that such would fit you better.

Not trying to start a sub-topic or anything. I'm just curious is all. When I was at my fourth foster home I used to play ball at a Messianic synagogue called Ahavat Yeshua. The people were really nice and everything so I have no issues with the denomination or anything like that.

I was just wondering how far you researched churches in traditional Christendom who hold to a more Jewish way.

The 3000 in Acts 2 were Messianic Jews.

Yes but they didn't form this 1860's movement that broke away from modern Judaism. They formed the see of Jerusalem, the governing Jewish See of the Early Church. I have no issues with Christians wanting to reconnect more deeply with their Jewish roots. I don't understand why anyone would go anywhere but the actual 2000 year old church the original Jewish Christians organized and hailed from.

I mean its the Mother Church. Why go anywhere else?

 ::doh::

Are you promoting the RCC again?

Well actually the See of Jerusalem is not in communion with Rome at the present time. So I guess I would be promoting the Eastern Orthodox.

I thought I split that post to a separate thread to prevent this type of complaining?

See of Jerusalem?

This is over my head, I have no idea what you are referring to ::headscratch::


The original congregation of Jewish Christians in the city of Jerusalem. The same region where the Council of Jerusalem in the Book of Acts takes place. The very same See where the Apostle St. James the Greater sat as bishop.

I started another thread to keep from derailing this thread.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2011, 02:38:06 AM »

So as we will know which angle to start teaching you the more prefect way

The more perfect way is only known by him who himself walks in it !
We have a teacher come from God ...who needs men ? 

Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2011, 02:54:39 AM »
Why is it that so many are secretive about what the sign out front their assembly says. If they are afraid they will be judged then it really does not matter cause we will judge on other matters anyway so be it true if you are a member of the board you will be judged on way or the other. If you do not fess up we will simply pin a title on you.

What do you mean ...secretive ?
I make no secret of following Christ !

How pharisaic.....'tell us plainly who you are.....or we'll pin a title on you anyway !
Is it not enough to follow Christ ?  ::frustrated:: ::headscratch::

Offline Beta

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2011, 03:07:55 AM »

Beta has no desire to be obediant to the OT strictures. She wishes to pick and choose which ones to follow and after some conversing with her it is only OT Sabbath that she follows. All the other 613 OT commands she ignores. As for the doctrine she believes, that is somewhat of mystery.

You profess to know me so well you can speak for me ?
Would you like to take my place on Judgement day ? 

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Re: Saturday or Sunday does God really care?
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2011, 03:11:11 AM »
Were the 613 commands not the ones nailed to the cross? I don't believe the 10 commandments were. Have we commenced to murder, lust, covet and dishonor our parents, etc?

Thank you Jaime...at last someone who knows the difference !!!   ::hug::