Author Topic: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.  (Read 7915 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #315 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 05:00:58 »
Do you believe that the former (old) covenant whose mediator was Moses was replaced by the new covenant whose mediator is Christ? A simple answer will do.

Yes.

Thank you with that.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Can you tell us what the old covenant is all about or what is included in that covenant?

I will not tell you, I will let the Word's of the Christ who created it, that I believe in, tell you. As I have already done several times.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

OK Michael, here it is. This is not the Pope or Jimmy Swaggart teaching here. This is the Christ, the Word of God which became flesh, that is telling you what HIS New Covenant is.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Here is what the God of Abraham says about His Laws. Not that He removes them, changes them, replaces them, amends them as you preach. Not that He "Frees us from them" or delivers us from them as you preach to the world. But that He writes them on the minds of His People.

But if you were really seeking you might ask, "well how was God's Laws administered before "After those days"?" And the answer is His Laws were administered by Levite Priest's, who sit in Moses seat, who had the exclusive duty of administering God's Laws, "till the Seed should come". As it is written;

Heb. 7:If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

This is why Paul told those truly repentant not to let religious men judge them in respect to His Sabbaths, because these are written on the minds of those the Blood of Christ purchased.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

But if you were really seeking you might ask, "well how was sin forgiven before "After those days"?"

And the answer is God gave Moses a Priesthood Covenant, made up of only Levites, in which a man that sinned was to bring an animal to for a sin offering. And this Levite Priest would perform specific sacrificial "works of the law" for the atonement of this man's sins. This Law was "ADDED" to God's Commandments and Laws "Till the seed should come".

So here it is Michael. This is a description of the old covenant God gave to Israel on Mt. Sinai, and the New Covenant this same God promised "after those days".

It wasn't the Law that defined sin that was changed, it was the Priesthood Law that was "ADDED" to it on Mt. Sinai that became obsolete.

And Hebrews confirms it.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And what was the LAW that was changed?

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The "ADDED" Priesthood, added because of transgression of God's Commandments, Added 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, is what changed.

In it only a Levite could become a High Priest. It was forbidden for anyone else other than a Levite to perform any Priesthood duties. So before Jesus could become our high Priest, there was, of necessity, also a change in the Law to allow someone from "another tribe" to partake of God's Priesthood.

It's right in your own Bible Michael.

Sorry to say GB, but you haven't given a clear description of what the old covenant is
which is what was asked of you. It just gives us the impression that you really can't tell what it is about. And so, what you preach is based on that void, which is bound to sink with all certainty into it.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #315 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 05:00:58 »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #316 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 08:29:11 »
Yes Red, in all 4 gospels those disciples and followers of the Christ kept HIS Sabbath Holy even after HIS death. Of course they did. It is the "Sabbath of the Lord".
Nowhere in the church epistles, or even in the Acts of the apostles do we read that they sat THAT DAY apart for worship. The Jews did, but not the epistles of any NT church! A few facts to consider:

1. Although God blessed the seventh day at creation, he did not command it as a day of rest until the time of Moses. The Sabbath law was added 430 years after Abraham, as part of the law of Moses, given to Israelites only.

2. When the early church decided that Gentiles did not need to become proselytes or to keep the law of Moses (Acts 15), the decision meant, in that culture, that Gentiles did not need to obey the law of Moses concerning the Sabbath. If you believe otherwise, then what are you going to do with:
Quote from: James
Acts 15:19-29~"Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."
You and others can add to this list, but you will be showing yourself an enemy to the apostles and the word of God. IF the Jewish Sabbath days were important as you want others to believe then THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VERY PLACE for the apostles to mentioned it, yet they did not, and for good reasons.

3. When Paul said that Jesus destroyed the laws that separated Jews and Gentiles (Ephesians 2:15), the Sabbath would have been included, because the Sabbath was one of the main laws that separated Jews and Gentiles. When the early church allowed people to live like Gentiles (1st Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 2:14), they were saying, among other things, that it was not necessary to keep the Sabbath.

4. We are never told that Paul or the other apostles rested or in any way avoided work on the Sabbath. If so, where?

5. What did Paul tell the Romans about special days? See Romans 14:5.

Both Jews and Gentiles were members of the church in Rome. Some of the Christians felt that they should consider certain days different than others; some considered every day alike. Paul did not seem to be troubled by either approach ~ what was most important in this situation is to avoid judging another believer (verse 4). One believer should not put stumbling blocks in another’s way (verse 13). If God does not require a particular behavior, it is wrong to teach it as required.

In Judaism, special days were important. But Paul took a rather indifferent attitude to the concept of special days. That is because something significant had happened to change the basis of our relationship with God. The most significant event in history had happened: the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Because of that, the old covenant laws came to an end. Days are no longer a matter for judging behavior.

6. Paul warned the Galatians about observing days as a means of being accepted with God~and because some did he stood in doubt of them! Galatians 4:10.

In closing~No New Testament verse specifically cites the Sabbath as obsolete. Instead, there are verses that say the entire old covenant law is obsolete as a means of inheriting eternal life. The law of Moses, including the Sabbath, is not required. We are commanded to live by the Spirit, not by the law inscribed in stone. The Sabbath is repeatedly compared to things now obsolete: temple sacrifices, circumcision, holy bread. The Sabbath is not a basis for judging one another, and it should not be taught as a necessary addition to Christ.

Briefly consider two stumbling blocks that confuse some people. First, is the idea that the Sabbath is a “creation ordinance,” commanded ever since creation. To understand the error of this view, we must note these facts: Although Genesis says the seventh day was declared holy at creation, there is no biblical evidence it was a commanded rest until the time of Moses. The idea that the Sabbath is a creation ordinance in the same manner which it was given to Israel is a human invention.

Marriage and reproduction were commanded at creation and are, therefore “creation ordinances,” but Christians are free not to marry if they choose. Even if Sabbath observance had been commanded at creation, which it was not, that would not in itself prove that everyone must keep it today~especially in the manner in which it was given to Israel! Paul says we should not let others judge us regarding the Sabbath days, and we will not.
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 08:35:48 by RB »

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #317 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 08:59:10 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055154817#msg1055154817 date=1579332497]
Quote
Yes, and what you refuse to accept, it seems, is that the Author of Hebrews spells the aforementioned "change" out.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken (Jesus) pertaineth to another tribe, (Judah) of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

According to the Priesthood Covenant, Added to God's Commandments on Mt. Sinai, "Till the Seed should come" only a Levite could partake in the Priesthood. It was unlawful for a member of any other tribe to partake of the Priesthood. This is a Biblical Fact. And the Author of Hebrews knew the Promise of the Christ in the New Covenant to take over the exclusive duties of the Priesthood, but before this was possible, it was, of necessity, necessary to change the Law in order to lift the requirement of the Law, that only a Levite could become a Priest.

It's right there in the scriptures you omitted in your reply. It says what changed in the New Covenant, why is changed, and what was changed.

Priesthood Covenant? This is a first of this, I have to say. Is there such a thing as Priesthood Covenant between the Levites and God spoken in Scriptures? Or is this just one of your imagination and invention, a doctrine of man, of GB?

A Covenant is a Compact between 2 entities. God gave Moses HIS Laws, and made a compact with Israel on the exclusive manner in which these Laws would be administered, and how transgression of these Laws would be atoned for. This "compact" was called "The Levitical Priesthood" in the New Testament. Hebrews 7-10 explain this compact in great detail.

Quote
GB, please show this board that a Priesthood Covenant do exist between Levites and God and where you get to read it in scriptures.

The Covenant was with and for Israel.

Ex. 27: 20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Ex. 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

4 And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

Lev. 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.

4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.

5 And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:

6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.

This is the Old Covenant God made with Israel that Hebrews 7-10 details.

Lev. 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

8 And he shall bring them unto the priest, who shall offer that which is for the sin offering first, and wring off his head from his neck, but shall not divide it asunder:

9 And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.

But in Jer. 31 the Christ promises "After those days" He will make another "Covenant" with Israel. One in which it is no longer the Levite Priest that administers to God in the Priest's office, but the Christ Himself will administer God's Laws.

And we no longer take an animal to the Levite Priest so he can take its blood and sprinkle it on the alter to atone for our sins. The Christ Himself will atone for our sins in the New Covenant.

This is what the Scriptures teach. It's not what the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time taught, as they considered much of the Law and Prophets Heresy. And it isn't what the Mainstream Preachers of today teach, as they also consider much of the Law and Prophets Heresy.

But it's what the Christ teaches as I have clearly demonstrated.


Quote
Yes, verse 12 says the priesthood was changed, but also speaks of a necessary change of the law. The difference is that, you take the law there as referring only to the Levitical priesthood, when it refers to the covenant laws, which Israel received from God through Moses. Consider the following passages in the same chapter of Hebrews:

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Tell us, what does the writer of Hebrews refer to by "law"? What law do the people received under the Levitical priesthood?


Exactly Michael. One duty of the Levite Priest was to give Israel God's definition of sins. God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments. (For under it the people received the Law) Another duty of the Priesthood was to perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. These were the exclusive duties of the Levitical Priesthood. Only a Levite, a son of Aaron, could become a Priest according to the Compact/Covenant God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai.

This is what the Christ addressed in Jer. 31. These two duties of the Priesthood. Nothing else as you can read for yourself.

#1. How God's Laws were administered.

#2. How sins are atoned for.

Heb. 7:11 separates the Levitical Priesthood, from the Law the people received under it, which included the Law that said only a Levite could become a High Priest.

Why are you purposely ignoring what the Hebrews author said was the change in the law. Why do you completely ignore the obvious problem the Law presented for anyone other than a Levite becoming a Priest of the Almighty God?

Quote
And the Bible also teaches that the covenant between God and Israel whose mediator was Moses was replaced by a new covenant, so that the former covenant was no longer. What do you say constitutes the former covenant? And what do you say constitutes the new covenant which replaced the former covenant?

Wow, I just posted what the Christ Himself said His New Covenant is, in HIS own Words, and what the Old Covenant was. Do you even read the Scriptures posted?

Quote
I have already exposed the error of your teaching elsewhere regarding this GB. But let me expose that again here by asking you the simple questions yet again.

How do you define atonement? How do you define justification? Are they the same to you?

Show us scriptures which says that the Levitical priesthood is for the justification of the sinner.

 I said according to the Compact God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai, the sinner was to take an animal to the Levite Priests who were to perform exclusive, sacrificial "works" to atone for the sins of the sinner "Till the Seed should Come".

Quote
You say "When a man sins in the Old covenant...". May I ask, what commandments do you refer to that those in covenant with God, when they violate such, is said to have sinned? Does he also sin when he offer an animal sacrifice short of what is required of him to bring, such as one with blemish?

This is a stupid and irrelevant question, I will not waste more time, only to have to ignore what is written anyway.

Quote
If you say that only the Levitical priesthood was changed, do you say that the judgments and curses included in the old covenant still stands and effective to you? Do your church stone to death an adulteress in your new covenant? Do your church punish by death anyone who take the name of the Lord in vain or commit blasphemy against God?

Because all your knowledge comes from man, you have no idea what you are talking about. Who is the "Congregation of the Lord"? Are they not the Faithful servants of the Bible. So when you are lusting after the naked woman in your heart, who are the witnesses against you? Abraham, Moses, Malachi, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, Nicodemus? Do these not all condemn you? Do they not all Stone you to death Spiritually? Are you not in need of repentance for such a sin? Do you not need an advocate on your behalf before the God who can destroy both your body and your soul?

Michael, you don't know what you are talking about. I say that in all die respect. God's Word is serious, it's not some game you play to pass the time. It's real, at least I believe it is.

Quote
What the Jews did not believe of Jesus is that he is the promised Messiah. They, in all probability, did not even have knowledge that the promised Messiah is the "Lamb of God". But yes, they continue to be under the Mosaic covenant and rely on the Levitical priesthood for atonement of sin.

Yes, they didn't believe the God of Abraham, they polluted His Sabbaths and were teaching for doctrines the commandments of man.  They were still trying to be justified by their version of the "works of the Law" of the Priesthood agreement God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai.

Quote
Of course, every child of God, God wants to be obedient to Him. There is no argument against that.

Yes, every true Child of God listens to HIS WORD's and Strives to "do" them.

Quote
Again, you refer to Romans 2:13, and have not until now learned its proper meaning and so misapply. You ought to study again Romans 2. Hint: try to find out if Paul is talking about Christians or about unconverted Gentiles and unconverted Jews.

In the Gospel there is no Jew or Greek. It is you who don't understand Rom. 2.

Rom. 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Your question exposes you do not understand Paul. He is addressing everyone here. Because the Christ of the Bible is no respecter of persons.


Quote
The passage mentioned "law". What do you say does "law" refer to there? Do you have it refer to the priesthood regulations or what?

I believe this statement was made "AFTER Those Days" referenced by the Christ of the Bible in Jer. 31. So given this belief, Jesus is now my High Priest. It is His express duty to administer God's Laws, and to atone for the sins of His People as promised in His New Covenant. So therefore, as the Bible teaches, the animal sacrifices and Priesthood duties of administering in the Priests office for the administration of God's Laws, given exclusively to the Levite, have become obsolete.

Quote
You seem to be afraid of saying God's law and prefer to say God's definition of sin instead. Well, there is obviously something fishy about that, I can sense.

I believe God's Word defines sin. I am not surprised that you consider this belief "fishy". The Pharisees also had a problem with God's definition of sin. It didn't work out so good for them.

Quote
You say, "The Priesthood which deals with how God's definition of sin is administered, and how transgression of God's definition of sin is atoned for". This tells me that the law referred to in Heb.7:11 refers to (according to your statement) "God's definition of sin and the laws pertaining to atonement". Is that right GB?

This is what the Scriptures say the Levitical Priesthood duties were. Under this Covenant the people were to receive God's definition of good and evil, clean and unclean, holy and unholy, (God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments) from a Levite Priest. And also, according to this Covenant, when a person transgressed God's Commandments which is called sin, this Priesthood was also charged with performing ceremonial, sacrificial "works" for the atonement of that sin.

This is not my teaching, but the teaching of the Christ in His Word written for my admonition. It's in your own Bible.

Quote
Deny or affirm? Error exposed again, right GB? But I have to say, that in your quoted statement here, you got that right, for the inspired writer of Hebrews 7 does not refer to "law" as only referring to the Levitical priesthood as you want us to believe on the other hand, but refers to all of God's commandments, statutes, regulations, ordinances, (all of which I suppose you refer to as God's definition of sin), and judgments, curses, which are in the Book of the Law.

In Heb. 7:11, there is a Levitical Priesthood, and under this Priesthood the people received God's definition of good and evil, clean and unclean, Holy and unholy, also referred to as His Laws, Commandments and ordinances. Just because you are ignorant of this Covenant, or don't believe this Covenant existed, doesn't make the Word's of God void.

Quote
Let me ask you GB, when the Jews, in OT times sinned, and repented and have done according to the law, what was required of them for the atonement of their sins, were their sins forgiven or not?

You mean like the examples of Zechariahs, and Simeon? Yes, these followed God's Instructions regarding the atonement of sins, but they also knew the God of the Bible didn't desire sacrifice, rather obedience. As it is written.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

For these and many more, their obedience to God's instruction regarding the blood of the sacrifice led them to Christ, so that when He came, they knew Him.

In sharp contrast, many Jews rejected God's Laws and despised His Sabbaths. That was not the purpose of the Priesthood. Religious men corrupted God's Priesthood. They taught the imaginations of their own mind, and not God's definition of good and evil. They had led God's People astray.  As it is written.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

I would quote God's Word explaining this, but you will just ignore them.

Quote
How about, if one committed murder during the OT times, but have repented and have done according to the law, what was required of them for the atonement of their sins, were their sins forgiven or not? Or are they to be judged and condemned to death according to the Mosaic law?

You don't know what you are talking about. You are just deflecting from the huge difference between your New Covenant, and the New Covenant the Christ promised.

I will ask you a question. Why were the Law and Prophets written? To those who were killed, why did this happen to them?

Quote
You said "So then I am truly cursed because I will die in my sins if I believe it is these "works" which cleanses me." Are you suggesting then that even those Jews in OT times who repented and went to do according to the law for atonement of their sins, are still cursed?

No, I am talking about "After those days", not before Jesus became our New High Priest. This was Paul's argument to the Jews who still relied on the Levite Priest, and their sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement, after Jesus became the High Priest. You are in error once again.

Quote
I have already pointed out to you the error in this. You are misapplying the passage, taking it out of context. Jesus is not talking about Christians (obviously), nor about just anybody here, but specifically about false prophets. Why you keep such error with you and keep misapplying and teaching it, really is shocking.

It's your religion, you can twist however you like. But men who come in Christ's Name, who teach in Christ's Name, who feed poor people and send missions in Christ's name, who build huge buildings in Christ's name, is the very definition of a Christian.

And yet, if they don't Honor the Father enough to respect His Commandments, all these "Christian" works mean nothing to Him, He doesn't even know them.

 I am not misapplying them at all. But I can sure see, given your posts, why these Word's would sting you a little.

Quote
No GB. To be accurate and without changing scriptures, those are the words of "YHVH" or "YHWH" God.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.




Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #318 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 11:34:22 »
 author=RB link=topic=74624.msg1055154830#msg1055154830 date=1579357751]
Quote
Nowhere in the church epistles, or even in the Acts of the apostles do we read that they sat THAT DAY apart for worship. The Jews did, but not the epistles of any NT church! A few facts to consider:

1. Although God blessed the seventh day at creation, he did not command it as a day of rest until the time of Moses. The Sabbath law was added 430 years after Abraham, as part of the law of Moses, given to Israelites only.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

You have no Scriptural evidence that God's Laws, commandments, and Statutes HE gave to Abraham, didn't include HIS Feasts, or Sabbaths. We know God "ADDED" a Levitical Priesthood 430 years later because of transgressions of God's Laws, Commandments and statutes. But we have nothing that would indicate that God didn't share His Sanctification and Blessing of the 7th Day at creation with Abraham and Noah, nor do we have any evidence that God didn't share or define His creation of clean and unclean animals with Noah or Abraham.

We do know that Abraham understood who the Lamb of God was to be, and we know Noah knew God's Definition of clean and unclean animals. Just because God didn't define these things for us until much later in His Word, doesn't mean they didn't exist.


Quote
2. When the early church decided that Gentiles did not need to become proselytes or to keep the law of Moses (Acts 15), the decision meant, in that culture, that Gentiles did not need to obey the law of Moses concerning the Sabbath.

The Jews were not keeping God's Sabbath Red, they despised God's Sabbath and had created their own. This was part of the "burdens" the Pharisees attempted laid on the shoulders (Necks) of the Disciples and their fathers.

These doctrines or "Yoke" the Jews were trying to burden the New Converts with were not the Commandments and Laws Zechariahs and Simeon followed.

What I think you are missing, is that the Jews were trying to get the Gentiles to honor their Priesthood. To come to them for atonement. To follow their religious traditions they called the Law of Moses, instead of the Commandments of God. Jesus said they taught for doctrines the commandments of men. The Disciples directed them instead to the true Laws of God and directed them to immediately abstain from doing what they apparently were doing.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols,(God's Law) and from fornication,(God's Law) and from things strangled,(God's Law) and from blood.(God's Law)

Pater saw fit to direct them to obey 4 of God's Commandments immediately, 2 pertaining to unclean foods, and two pertaining to morality.

Then He instructed the Gentile Converts in the same exact manner in which Jesus instructed them.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

I think religious men have corrupted this chapter to promote ancient religious traditions of rejecting God's Commandments, as was common through out the Law and Prophets. But when a man clears his mind of the teaching of the religions of the land, it becomes clear that the Disciples were promoting God's Laws, while teaching against the religious doctrines of the land.
 

Quote
If you believe otherwise, then what are you going to do with: You and others can add to this list, but you will be showing yourself an enemy to the apostles and the word of God. IF the Jewish Sabbath days were important as you want others to believe then THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VERY PLACE for the apostles to mentioned it, yet they did not, and for good reasons.

Yes, because they were already following it. Not the Sabbath the Jews preached, but the Sabbath of the Lord. They weren't murdering people either, or stealing from them. But they were engaged in some form of idolatry, and sexual immorality, and they did partake in questionable eating habits.

So Peter thought it better to just address their immediate transgressions, and let them hear the rest from Moses, just as Jesus instructed them. It might be wise to consider that Peter never mentioned "Love your neighbor as yourself" either, but we know He believed, followed, and taught this Law of God.

Quote
3. When Paul said that Jesus destroyed the laws that separated Jews and Gentiles (Ephesians 2:15), the Sabbath would have been included, because the Sabbath was one of the main laws that separated Jews and Gentiles. When the early church allowed people to live like Gentiles (1st Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 2:14), they were saying, among other things, that it was not necessary to keep the Sabbath.

Here is what the Christ Himself said about the Sabbath and Gentiles.

Is. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

I understand how popular it is for religious men to despise, pollute and to trash God's Holy Sabbaths. I'm not convinced from the Word's of the Bible, that He is anymore happy about that behavior now, than He was in the Law and Prophets.

Quote
4. We are never told that Paul or the other apostles rested or in any way avoided work on the Sabbath. If so, where?

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

2 Tim. 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't believe God ever intended for man to ignore, replace, amend, destroy or otherwise refuse His Word's in the Law and Prophets. If a man reads His Word's there, and believes in them as Paul believed and taught, then the Sabbath is just as important to God as not killing and hating your brother without a cause.

Quote
5. What did Paul tell the Romans about special days? See Romans 14:5.

Rom. 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Why should I care what one man, weak in the Faith esteems, or another man, weak in the faith esteems? Who was it that esteemeth one day over another?

EX. 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Are you not persuaded that it was the Christ, the creator God of the Bible, that esteemed the 7th day above the other six? If you are preaching He didn't esteem one day above the other, then are you not preaching against the Word's of the very Christ you claim to serve? Why should "EVERY MAN" be persuaded in their own mind Red?

Rom. 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Religious man can say anything, teach anything, live any lifestyle they want. But at the end of the day, it is God's Word that matters. Shall we not submit ourselves to it?


Quote
Both Jews and Gentiles were members of the church in Rome. Some of the Christians felt that they should consider certain days different than others; some considered every day alike. Paul did not seem to be troubled by either approach ~ what was most important in this situation is to avoid judging another believer (verse 4). One believer should not put stumbling blocks in another’s way (verse 13). If God does not require a particular behavior, it is wrong to teach it as required.

Well I would have to ask "Believer in what"? The God of the Bible? Or the religious traditions of the religion they were born into? Who is the God they will all give account to?

Who was it that sad "Thou shall not kill"? Who was it that said "Remember the Keep the Sabbath Day Holy"? I would argue that those who don't "Believe" these words, are not a "believer". And do you believe Paul would hide this one Commandment from the weak in faith, while keeping the Commandment Himself as was his custom? I would argue that placing a religious doctrine or commandment of men, would cause a weak brother to stumble. Not sharing God's Word with him. After all, who will Every Man account to?

Quote
In Judaism, special days were important. But Paul took a rather indifferent attitude to the concept of special days. That is because something significant had happened to change the basis of our relationship with God. The most significant event in history had happened: the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Because of that, the old covenant laws came to an end. Days are no longer a matter for judging behavior.

You don't have any scriptural support for this popular religious doctrine. In fact, Jesus Himself teaches just the opposite of your preaching here. He said "Don't think that I came to destroy the Law and Prophets". But you not only think that, you actually preach that.

1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I think you have been tricked as to what the old Covenant was that Jesus replaced with a New one. I would suggest you look at how the Christ Himself defines His New Covenant. He doesn't even come close to your description of it.


Quote
6. Paul warned the Galatians about observing days as a means of being accepted with God~and because some did he stood in doubt of them! Galatians 4:10.

No Red. The Galatians were not obeying God's Laws before they knew God. Every religion on the planet has high days and religious observances. I think it is a mistake to equate the Laws and Feasts of the Lord with ancient pagan observances. I know Paul didn't.

Quote
In closing~No New Testament verse specifically cites the Sabbath as obsolete. Instead, there are verses that say the entire old covenant law is obsolete as a means of inheriting eternal life. The law of Moses, including the Sabbath, is not required.

God commanded that Adam and Eve not eat of a certain tree in the garden. A religious voice, quoting some of God's own Words, came by and told them the requirement to obey God in this matter was not necessary, and that God knows His Laws only make you blind. And that the only way one can truly see, is if they would reject this Law and follow their own instructions.

I see that you have also been convinced, by other religious voices, to reject a Commandment of God. Paul never taught this and neither did Jesus, but we are warned of religious men, who come in Christ's Name, who teach that Jesus is truly the Messiah, but will deceive us about God and His Word.

Paul does not teach that God's Laws are obsolete. The Levitical Priesthood agreement He made with Israel on Mt. Sinai, with it's animals sacrifices and "Priesthood "Works of the Law" have become obsolete. but not God's Definition of sin. As Paul clearly points out.

1 cor. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, (Against God's Law) nor idolaters, (Against God's Law) nor adulterers(Against God's Law), nor effeminate,(Against God's Law) nor abusers of themselves with mankind,(Against God's Law)

10 Nor thieves,(Against God's Law) nor covetous,(Against God's Law) nor drunkards,(Against God's Law) nor revilers,(Against God's Law) nor extortioners,(Against God's Law) shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

All these are the Commandments of the God of the Bible that you just said were obsolete. Yet Paul is saying that those who practice such things will not enter heaven. No Salvation Red. I hope you might reconsider who you listen too while you still can. The Old Covenant that became obsolete is the agreement God made with Israel on the manner in which these Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of these laws are atoned for.

 You are preaching, it seems, that Jesus came to remove or destroy these definitions of Sin. I don't see any support for your teaching on this. I fear this is another religious doctrine of religious man that were are warned about.

The Christ of the Bible says HIS Holy Sabbath is a sign between God and the "washed",the "sanctified" and the "justified". That is why Paul kept them, that is why the Disciples were gathered on Pentecost and that is why Jesus instructed the Disciples, who, in turn instructed the Gentiles, to hear the Scriptures read every Sabbath Day in Acts 15.

Quote
We are commanded to live by the Spirit, not by the law inscribed in stone. The Sabbath is repeatedly compared to things now obsolete: temple sacrifices, circumcision, holy bread. The Sabbath is not a basis for judging one another, and it should not be taught as a necessary addition to Christ.

Paul said not to let "man" judge me in respect to obedience to Him. Shall I not believe him?

Quote
Briefly consider two stumbling blocks that confuse some people. First, is the idea that the Sabbath is a “creation ordinance,” commanded ever since creation. To understand the error of this view, we must note these facts: Although Genesis says the seventh day was declared holy at creation, there is no biblical evidence it was a commanded rest until the time of Moses. The idea that the Sabbath is a creation ordinance in the same manner which it was given to Israel is a human invention.

What evidence do you have to support your preaching that God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments He gave to Abraham didn't include His Holy, Sanctified 7th Day Sabbath, His Passover, or His creation of clean and unclean animals?

Quote
Marriage and reproduction were commanded at creation and are, therefore “creation ordinances,” but Christians are free not to marry if they choose. Even if Sabbath observance had been commanded at creation, which it was not, that would not in itself prove that everyone must keep it today~especially in the manner in which it was given to Israel! Paul says we should not let others judge us regarding the Sabbath days, and we will not.

There isn't a commandment that requires marriage. There is a commandment to keep a certain day of the week Holy.

And the Sanctification of the 7th day did happen on creation. Just as the creation of clean and unclean animals happened at creation. Just because God chose not to define in writing what all these things mean until Abraham's Children were lost in Egypt doesn't mean He didn't share them with His Friends like Abel, and Noah and Abraham.

And there is a lot of evidence that He did. Certainly volumes more evidence than exists for the religion which preaches Jesus taught to reject the Biblical Sabbath over some New Lord's Day that was never even mentioned, prophesied, commanded, or even suggested.

I appreciate your zeal, but you say so many things that just are not true, if the Scriptures are the source we rely on.

« Last Edit: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 11:50:35 by GB »

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #319 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 12:32:07 »
Yes.

Thank you with that.

I will not tell you, I will let the Word's of the Christ who created it, that I believe in, tell you. As I have already done several times.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

OK Michael, here it is. This is not the Pope or Jimmy Swaggart teaching here. This is the Christ, the Word of God which became flesh, that is telling you what HIS New Covenant is.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Here is what the God of Abraham says about His Laws. Not that He removes them, changes them, replaces them, amends them as you preach. Not that He "Frees us from them" or delivers us from them as you preach to the world. But that He writes them on the minds of His People.

But if you were really seeking you might ask, "well how was God's Laws administered before "After those days"?" And the answer is His Laws were administered by Levite Priest's, who sit in Moses seat, who had the exclusive duty of administering God's Laws, "till the Seed should come". As it is written;

Heb. 7:If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

This is why Paul told those truly repentant not to let religious men judge them in respect to His Sabbaths, because these are written on the minds of those the Blood of Christ purchased.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

But if you were really seeking you might ask, "well how was sin forgiven before "After those days"?"

And the answer is God gave Moses a Priesthood Covenant, made up of only Levites, in which a man that sinned was to bring an animal to for a sin offering. And this Levite Priest would perform specific sacrificial "works of the law" for the atonement of this man's sins. This Law was "ADDED" to God's Commandments and Laws "Till the seed should come".

So here it is Michael. This is a description of the old covenant God gave to Israel on Mt. Sinai, and the New Covenant this same God promised "after those days".

It wasn't the Law that defined sin that was changed, it was the Priesthood Law that was "ADDED" to it on Mt. Sinai that became obsolete.

And Hebrews confirms it.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And what was the LAW that was changed?

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The "ADDED" Priesthood, added because of transgression of God's Commandments, Added 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, is what changed.

In it only a Levite could become a High Priest. It was forbidden for anyone else other than a Levite to perform any Priesthood duties. So before Jesus could become our high Priest, there was, of necessity, also a change in the Law to allow someone from "another tribe" to partake of God's Priesthood.

It's right in your own Bible Michael.


Sorry to say GB, but you haven't given a clear description of what the old covenant is
which is what was asked of you. It just gives us the impression that you really can't tell what it is about. And so, what you preach is based on that void, which is bound to sink with all certainty into it.

I'm describing the New Covenant designed to replace the Old Covenant that the Christ speaks to, not the Catholic religion. It is the Old Priesthood, the Compact God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai regarding the administration of God's Laws, and provisions for the atonement of sins "Until the Seed should come".

You can't see or even understand what I am saying, because you cannot accept the Christ's Own Word's and HIS own definition of the His New Covenant. This is because the New Covenant you preach, and the one Jesus promised are two completely different things.

It was the Levitical Priesthood that is the Old Covenant, that was changed in the New Covenant. That is, the manner in which God's Law, given to Abraham, is administered, and the manner in which transgressions of this Law are atoned for.

This Levitical Priesthood is the "LAW" that was ADDED to the Covenant God made with Abraham, Till the Seed should come in Gal. 3:19. This is the Law Abraham didn't have as Levi wasn't even born until may years later.

The religions of the land, your religion, preaches that the Old Covenant was not only the Levitical Priesthood, but also the Covenant that God made with Abraham, that He remembered when the Children of Israel cried by reason of bondage. The preaching that God's entire Law structure, which defines sin, became obsolete is a doctrine of devils. This religious tradition is strong no doubt. That is why I directed you to the Christ's Own Word's so you can read how the Christ Himself defines His Own New Covenant.

I have pointed this out to you now in such detail that even a child could see. You inability to comprehend the scriptures which reveal this is outside of my control.

I have done my part here, actually over and above my part here. My work here is done, you, of course, will have to have the last word, and I will give it to you.









Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #319 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 12:32:07 »



Offline winsome

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5612
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #320 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 13:12:27 »
Sorry to say GB, but you haven't given a clear description of what the old covenant is
which is what was asked of you. It just gives us the impression that you really can't tell what it is about. And so, what you preach is based on that void, which is bound to sink with all certainty into it.
GB's answers are as twisted as a corkscrew and seem designed as a vehicle for obfuscation and insults.

I've already wasted too much time with him.

I will waste no more.

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #321 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 13:13:10 »
Priesthood Covenant? This is a first of this, I have to say. Is there such a thing as Priesthood Covenant between the Levites and God spoken in Scriptures? Or is this just one of your imagination and invention, a doctrine of man, of GB?
A Covenant is a Compact between 2 entities. God gave Moses HIS Laws, and made a compact with Israel on the exclusive manner in which these Laws would be administered, and how transgression of these Laws would be atoned for. This "compact" was called "The Levitical Priesthood" in the New Testament. Hebrews 7-10 explain this compact in great detail.

Needless to say, this is obviously just another of your inventions. For nowhere in scriptures speak of a Priesthood Covenant between the Levites and God.

No inspired writer, both in the OT and NT scriptures mention even once about a priesthood covenant between the Levites and God. This is clearly a fabrication and a deceptive lie.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
GB, please show this board that a Priesthood Covenant do exist between Levites and God and where you get to read it in scriptures.


The Covenant was with and for Israel.

Ex. 27: 20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

Ex. 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty.

3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

4 And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

Lev. 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

3 If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering.

4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD.

5 And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:

6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.

This is the Old Covenant God made with Israel that Hebrews 7-10 details.

Lev. 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

8 And he shall bring them unto the priest, who shall offer that which is for the sin offering first, and wring off his head from his neck, but shall not divide it asunder:

9 And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.

But in Jer. 31 the Christ promises "After those days" He will make another "Covenant" with Israel. One in which it is no longer the Levite Priest that administers to God in the Priest's office, but the Christ Himself will administer God's Laws.

And we no longer take an animal to the Levite Priest so he can take its blood and sprinkle it on the alter to atone for our sins. The Christ Himself will atone for our sins in the New Covenant.

This is what the Scriptures teach. It's not what the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time taught, as they considered much of the Law and Prophets Heresy. And it isn't what the Mainstream Preachers of today teach, as they also consider much of the Law and Prophets Heresy.

But it's what the Christ teaches as I have clearly demonstrated.

Obviously again, you fail to show this board that a Priesthood Covenant exist between Levites and God. But what we do have in scriptures is a covenant between Israel and God, not between Levites and God. To say and insist that there is Priesthood covenant between Levites and God is fabrication and obviously a deceptive lie, very similar to that of the old serpent's deceptive lie. EXPOSED!

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Yes, verse 12 says the priesthood was changed, but also speaks of a necessary change of the law. The difference is that, you take the law there as referring only to the Levitical priesthood, when it refers to the covenant laws, which Israel received from God through Moses. Consider the following passages in the same chapter of Hebrews:

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Tell us, what does the writer of Hebrews refer to by "law"? What law do the people received under the Levitical priesthood?

Exactly Michael. One duty of the Levite Priest was to give Israel God's definition of sins. God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments. (For under it the people received the Law) Another duty of the Priesthood was to perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement of sins. These were the exclusive duties of the Levitical Priesthood. Only a Levite, a son of Aaron, could become a Priest according to the Compact/Covenant God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai.

This is what the Christ addressed in Jer. 31. These two duties of the Priesthood. Nothing else as you can read for yourself.

#1. How God's Laws were administered.

#2. How sins are atoned for.

Heb. 7:11 separates the Levitical Priesthood, from the Law the people received under it, which included the Law that said only a Levite could become a High Priest.

Why are you purposely ignoring what the Hebrews author said was the change in the law. Why do you completely ignore the obvious problem the Law presented for anyone other than a Levite becoming a Priest of the Almighty God?

I am not ignoring any scriptures as you accuse me of GB. I am asking you simple questions regarding your interpretation of the scriptures in view, "what does the writer of Hebrews refer to by "law"? What law do the people received under the Levitical priesthood?" But you always make long post which does not really address what is asked.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
And the Bible also teaches that the covenant between God and Israel whose mediator was Moses was replaced by a new covenant, so that the former covenant was no longer. What do you say constitutes the former covenant? And what do you say constitutes the new covenant which replaced the former covenant?

Wow, I just posted what the Christ Himself said His New Covenant is, in HIS own Words, and what the Old Covenant was. Do you even read the Scriptures posted?

You may have responded. But it does not mean that a response necessarily mean it addresses what is being sought for by the other poster from you. And it does not mean that posting scriptures necessarily does that as well. If you think that your previous post tells this board what constitutes the former covenant and what constitutes the new covenant, then so be it with you. That just shows what knowledge you have of the said covenants.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
I have already exposed the error of your teaching elsewhere regarding this GB. But let me expose that again here by asking you the simple questions yet again.

How do you define atonement? How do you define justification? Are they the same to you?

Show us scriptures which says that the Levitical priesthood is for the justification of the sinner.
I said according to the Compact God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai, the sinner was to take an animal to the Levite Priests who were to perform exclusive, sacrificial "works" to atone for the sins of the sinner "Till the Seed should Come".

You also said and I quote "Moses taught that when a man transgresses God's Commandments, he is to take an offering to the Levite Priest who is required by Law to perform exclusive "works" specifically designed to cleanse or atone for the sin, in order for the man to be justified."

You also said "Paul explains that no flesh is justified of sin by these "works of the Law" given by Moses for the justification of sins."

I asked the simple questions "How do you define atonement? How do you define justification? Are they the same to you?" for evidently you are mixing atonement and justification. So, you have this opportunity to clear that up and correct that mess.   

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
You say "When a man sins in the Old covenant...". May I ask, what commandments do you refer to that those in covenant with God, when they violate such, is said to have sinned? Does he also sin when he offer an animal sacrifice short of what is required of him to bring, such as one with blemish?
This is a stupid and irrelevant question, I will not waste more time, only to have to ignore what is written anyway.

And this stupid question you say evidently stalls you. Well, I leave it at that then.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
If you say that only the Levitical priesthood was changed, do you say that the judgments and curses included in the old covenant still stands and effective to you? Do your church stone to death an adulteress in your new covenant? Do your church punish by death anyone who take the name of the Lord in vain or commit blasphemy against God?

Because all your knowledge comes from man, you have no idea what you are talking about. Who is the "Congregation of the Lord"? Are they not the Faithful servants of the Bible. So when you are lusting after the naked woman in your heart, who are the witnesses against you? Abraham, Moses, Malachi, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, Nicodemus? Do these not all condemn you? Do they not all Stone you to death Spiritually? Are you not in need of repentance for such a sin? Do you not need an advocate on your behalf before the God who can destroy both your body and your soul?

Michael, you don't know what you are talking about. I say that in all die respect. God's Word is serious, it's not some game you play to pass the time. It's real, at least I believe it is.

Really? And you are convinced and believe that you know what you are talking about? How can you not answer the simple questions I asked of you, if you do? Besides, my questioning are coming from what you teach and preach out here. 

Don't you preach and teach and repeatedly insist we must keep the Commandments, statutes, ordinances, regulations, judgments contained in the old covenant, because only the levitical priesthood was changed and abolished?

Now you seem to give us the impression that you have this doctrine of stoning to death Spiritually. Never heard of that spoken in scriptures GB. Another fabricated and deceptive lie? And you want to impress on us that you know what you are talking about and we don't? Wow!

So, how is that? When you are lusting after the naked woman in your heart, you are stone to death spiritually. So you die spiritually. Granting for the sake of argument that you came back to be spiritually alive, you will be stoned to death every time you commit adultery in your heart or hate a brother or commit blasphemy. And so you die spiritually every time and comes back to be spiritually alive.

Tell us, how do you come back to be spiritually alive after you were stoned to death spiritually?

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
What the Jews did not believe of Jesus is that he is the promised Messiah. They, in all probability, did not even have knowledge that the promised Messiah is the "Lamb of God". But yes, they continue to be under the Mosaic covenant and rely on the Levitical priesthood for atonement of sin.
Yes, they didn't believe the God of Abraham, they polluted His Sabbaths and were teaching for doctrines the commandments of man.  They were still trying to be justified by their version of the "works of the Law" of the Priesthood agreement God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai.

....

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Of course, every child of God, God wants to be obedient to Him. There is no argument against that.
Yes, every true Child of God listens to HIS WORD's and Strives to "do" them.

....

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Again, you refer to Romans 2:13, and have not until now learned its proper meaning and so misapply. You ought to study again Romans 2. Hint: try to find out if Paul is talking about Christians or about unconverted Gentiles and unconverted Jews.

In the Gospel there is no Jew or Greek. It is you who don't understand Rom. 2.

Rom. 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Your question exposes you do not understand Paul. He is addressing everyone here. Because the Christ of the Bible is no respecter of persons.

Very well then, you give me no choice but to expose your error yet again.

He is talking about the unconverted men. No respect of persons. So, he is talking about the unconverted men, Jew and Gentile alike. But he is not talking about those who are in Christ, for there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. They are justified by His blood.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
The passage mentioned "law". What do you say does "law" refer to there? Do you have it refer to the priesthood regulations or what?


I believe this statement was made "AFTER Those Days" referenced by the Christ of the Bible in Jer. 31. So given this belief, Jesus is now my High Priest. It is His express duty to administer God's Laws, and to atone for the sins of His People as promised in His New Covenant. So therefore, as the Bible teaches, the animal sacrifices and Priesthood duties of administering in the Priests office for the administration of God's Laws, given exclusively to the Levite, have become obsolete.

The passage under consideration is:

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So, if I get you right, your answer to the question is that the "law" mentioned there refers to all of God's Law written in book of the Law except those pertaining to the Levitical priesthood. Is that right? 

If so, consider the ff verse:

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God

Paul said the Jew restest in the law. Now we know what the law is for the Jew. This verse refutes the view that the law that Paul refers to in this chapter excludes the laws for the atonement of sin, the Levitical priesthood. 

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
You seem to be afraid of saying God's law and prefer to say God's definition of sin instead. Well, there is obviously something fishy about that, I can sense.
I believe God's Word defines sin. I am not surprised that you consider this belief "fishy". The Pharisees also had a problem with God's definition of sin. It didn't work out so good for them.

Reading comprehension again? It's not what you believe, but your seemingly being afraid of saying God's law and prefer to say God's definition of sin instead, that I sense something fishy.   

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
You say, "The Priesthood which deals with how God's definition of sin is administered, and how transgression of God's definition of sin is atoned for". This tells me that the law referred to in Heb.7:11 refers to (according to your statement) "God's definition of sin and the laws pertaining to atonement". Is that right GB?

This is what the Scriptures say the Levitical Priesthood duties were. Under this Covenant the people were to receive God's definition of good and evil, clean and unclean, holy and unholy, (God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments) from a Levite Priest. And also, according to this Covenant, when a person transgressed God's Commandments which is called sin, this Priesthood was also charged with performing ceremonial, sacrificial "works" for the atonement of that sin.

This is not my teaching, but the teaching of the Christ in His Word written for my admonition. It's in your own Bible.

So, you affirm. And it's clear then that you believe that the "law" in Heb. 7:11 refers to God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, and does not refer to laws pertaining the Levitical priesthood. Now consider verse 12 and see how that your take of the "law" would make of it.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Deny or affirm? Error exposed again, right GB? But I have to say, that in your quoted statement here, you got that right, for the inspired writer of Hebrews 7 does not refer to "law" as only referring to the Levitical priesthood as you want us to believe on the other hand, but refers to all of God's commandments, statutes, regulations, ordinances, (all of which I suppose you refer to as God's definition of sin), and judgments, curses, which are in the Book of the Law.
In Heb. 7:11, there is a Levitical Priesthood, and under this Priesthood the people received God's definition of good and evil, clean and unclean, Holy and unholy, also referred to as His Laws, Commandments and ordinances. Just because you are ignorant of this Covenant, or don't believe this Covenant existed, doesn't make the Word's of God void.
If there is anything that is made void is not God's words but what you say they mean to say.

So, how about the laws that speak of judgement and curses, in the OT times, I don't see you mentioning them. Are they part of your so-called "God's definition of sin"? Are they part of what the Levitical Priesthood administers? What is the teaching of the Christ regarding this, that is in my Bible?

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
Let me ask you GB, when the Jews, in OT times sinned, and repented and have done according to the law, what was required of them for the atonement of their sins, were their sins forgiven or not?
You mean like the examples of Zechariahs, and Simeon? Yes, these followed God's Instructions regarding the atonement of sins, but they also knew the God of the Bible didn't desire sacrifice, rather obedience. As it is written.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

For these and many more, their obedience to God's instruction regarding the blood of the sacrifice led them to Christ, so that when He came, they knew Him.

In sharp contrast, many Jews rejected God's Laws and despised His Sabbaths. That was not the purpose of the Priesthood. Religious men corrupted God's Priesthood. They taught the imaginations of their own mind, and not God's definition of good and evil. They had led God's People astray.  As it is written.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

I would quote God's Word explaining this, but you will just ignore them.


Evidently you don't know what you are talking about. For nothing there answers the question "Let me ask you GB, when the Jews, in OT times sinned, and repented and have done according to the law, what was required of them for the atonement of their sins, were their sins forgiven or not?"

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
How about, if one committed murder during the OT times, but have repented and have done according to the law, what was required of them for the atonement of their sins, were their sins forgiven or not? Or are they to be judged and condemned to death according to the Mosaic law?

You don't know what you are talking about. You are just deflecting from the huge difference between your New Covenant, and the New Covenant the Christ promised.

I will ask you a question. Why were the Law and Prophets written? To those who were killed, why did this happen to them?

You are stalled again I can see.

You asked "Why were the Law and Prophets written?"

Let me tell you some as to why:

1. It is God's will.
2. To reveal God.
3. For doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
4. To make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
5. To be fulfilled.
6. To be witness to the righteousness of God.

You asked "To those who were killed, why did this happen to them?" Please clarify your question.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
You said "So then I am truly cursed because I will die in my sins if I believe it is these "works" which cleanses me." Are you suggesting then that even those Jews in OT times who repented and went to do according to the law for atonement of their sins, are still cursed?
No, I am talking about "After those days", not before Jesus became our New High Priest. This was Paul's argument to the Jews who still relied on the Levite Priest, and their sacrificial "works of the Law" for atonement, after Jesus became the High Priest. You are in error once again.

With your clarification, I ask you then about those Jews in OT times who repented and went to do according to the law for atonement of their sins, before Jesus came, were they still cursed if they believe that it is these "works" which cleanses them?

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
I have already pointed out to you the error in this. You are misapplying the passage, taking it out of context. Jesus is not talking about Christians (obviously), nor about just anybody here, but specifically about false prophets. Why you keep such error with you and keep misapplying and teaching it, really is shocking.
It's your religion, you can twist however you like. But men who come in Christ's Name, who teach in Christ's Name, who feed poor people and send missions in Christ's name, who build huge buildings in Christ's name, is the very definition of a Christian.

And yet, if they don't Honor the Father enough to respect His Commandments, all these "Christian" works mean nothing to Him, He doesn't even know them.

 I am not misapplying them at all. But I can sure see, given your posts, why these Word's would sting you a little.

Who are they? I am not talking about them GB.

So you deny your error. Let me show you that Jesus is not talking about Christians (obviously), nor about just anybody here, but specifically about false prophets.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
No GB. To be accurate and without changing scriptures, those are the words of "YHVH" or "YHWH" God.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Is the Father the Son?

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #322 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 13:16:23 »
You have no Scriptural evidence that God's Laws, commandments, and Statutes HE gave to Abraham, didn't include HIS Feasts, or Sabbaths. We know God "ADDED" a Levitical Priesthood 430 years later because of transgressions of God's Laws, Commandments and statutes. But we have nothing that would indicate that God didn't share His Sanctification and Blessing of the 7th Day at creation with Abraham and Noah, nor do we have any evidence that God didn't share or define His creation of clean and unclean animals with Noah or Abraham.

We do know that Abraham understood who the Lamb of God was to be, and we know Noah knew God's Definition of clean and unclean animals. Just because God didn't define these things for us until much later in His Word, doesn't mean they didn't exist.
GB, what we DO HAVE is God's SILENCE on the subject that NO ONE practiced the Sabbath AS it was GIVEN TO ISRAEL. That's more than you can ever produce! You said:
Quote from: GB on: Today at 11:34:22
and we know Noah knew God's Definition of clean and unclean animals. Just because God didn't define these things for us until much later in His Word, doesn't mean they didn't exist.
GB, from Adam to Moses we DO HAVE God's voice on this matter concerning eating meats, etc.~have you never read so much as this?
Quote from: God
"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."
GB, you are arguing against God, not me. The ONLY thing that man from the beginning was forbidden to eat is BLOOD of everything that moveth upon the earth~part of the SAME commandments that the apostles gave to the Gentiles in Acts 15:20!

Acts ten is an important part of NT scriptures basically showing us that NO animals are unclean under the NT for us. The many unclean beasts mentioned in Leviticus 11; etc. where a TYPE OF GENTILES DOGS/HAIRY PIGS that Israel was supposed to SEPARATE themselves from~AFTER the death of Jesus Christ, the gospel is to go out into ALL THE WORLD and no NT Christian has a right to look at anyone as UNCLEAN for God is visiting the Gentiles nations and FROM THEM gathering a people from among them. Those OT animals are NOT forbidden for us, we were ONCE one of those UNCLEAN beasts, but no more.   

I must finish your long post that I started a couple of days ago.

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #323 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 13:44:29 »
Quote from: Michael
Sorry to say GB, but you haven't given a clear description of what the old covenant is which is what was asked of you. It just gives us the impression that you really can't tell what it is about. And so, what you preach is based on that void, which is bound to sink with all certainty into it.

I'm describing the New Covenant designed to replace the Old Covenant that the Christ speaks to, not the Catholic religion. It is the Old Priesthood, the Compact God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai regarding the administration of God's Laws, and provisions for the atonement of sins "Until the Seed should come".

But then what is asked of you is "Can you tell us what the OLD COVENANT is all about or what is included in that covenant?", and not about the new covenant. Do you not understand that? Really?

Quote from: GB
You can't see or even understand what I am saying, because you cannot accept the Christ's Own Word's and HIS own definition of the His New Covenant. This is because the New Covenant you preach, and the one Jesus promised are two completely different things.

This does not tell us what the OLD COVENANT is all about or what is included in that covenant.

False accusation.

Quote from: GB
It was the Levitical Priesthood that is the Old Covenant, that was changed in the New Covenant. That is, the manner in which God's Law, given to Abraham, is administered, and the manner in which transgressions of this Law are atoned for.

This does not tell us what the OLD COVENANT is all about or what is included in that covenant.

Quote from: GB
This Levitical Priesthood is the "LAW" that was ADDED to the Covenant God made with Abraham, Till the Seed should come in Gal. 3:19. This is the Law Abraham didn't have as Levi wasn't even born until may years later.

This does not tell us what the OLD COVENANT is all about or what is included in that covenant.

Quote from: GB
The religions of the land, your religion, preaches that the Old Covenant was not only the Levitical Priesthood, but also the Covenant that God made with Abraham, that He remembered when the Children of Israel cried by reason of bondage. The preaching that God's entire Law structure, which defines sin, became obsolete is a doctrine of devils. This religious tradition is strong no doubt. That is why I directed you to the Christ's Own Word's so you can read how the Christ Himself defines His Own New Covenant.

This does not tell us what the OLD COVENANT is all about or what is included in that covenant.

Same old false accusation, for the countless time.

Quote from: GB
I have pointed this out to you now in such detail that even a child could see. You inability to comprehend the scriptures which reveal this is outside of my control.

I have done my part here, actually over and above my part here. My work here is done, you, of course, will have to have the last word, and I will give it to you.

So you think you did.

Perhaps you really just do not know what the Old covenant is about. Well, I leave it at that then.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #324 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 16:46:15 »
And in all 4 Gospels they didn't go to the Grave until the Sabbath was over, at sundown Saturday night.
Still working through your long post, but I intend to finish it if it takes me a week to do so. You are wrong as always~let us see what the scriptures said.
Quote
Matthew 28:1~"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."
acording to Matthew, the they came at the END of the Sabbath, as it began to DAWN toward the FIRST day of the week. Which would have been SUNDAY MORNING to any Unbiased lover of the truth.
Quote
Luke 24:1~"Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them."
That would be the Sunday, not Saturday.
Quote
John 20:1~"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
John added while it was yet dark on the FIRST day of the week, which would be on Sunday morning! Here the stone was rolled away~so we KNOW that sometime AFTER MIDNIGHT before the Sun came totally up on the first day of the week~Jesus had already risen.
Quote from: GB Reply #276 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 10:29:14
And in all 4 Gospels they didn't go to the Grave until the Sabbath was over, at sundown Saturday night
NOT at sundown SATURDAY NIGHT, but the scriptures are clear that they came JUST BEFORE THE SUN CAME UP on the FIRST DAY of the week while it was yet dark, which could have been thirty minutes or even an hour or so, it makes no different, but we DO KNOW that it was EARLY IN THE MORNING! The Jewish Sabbath was ended totally before Jesus was resurrected based upon the next witness from the word of God:
Quote
Mark 16:9~"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."
Quote from: GB Reply #276 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 10:29:14
The Mark verse you quote, depending on where the comma is inserted, contradicts Mark's own words at the beginning of the chapter.

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

or

Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

In Mark's account, depending on where one places a coma, that wasn't there to begin with, this verse can be made to even contradict Marks own statements in the beginning of the chapter.
When people like you know that God's word exposes them as a liar, then they begin to get desperate and look for ways of rejecting that which clearly proves them to corrupters of God's word. Comas, single words, etc, are just where they need to be IF one truly believes that the word of God is given by inspiration of God, and that God has protected his word for his children from the hands of wicked men. Mark's account of Jesus' resurrection was on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is clearly stated.

I'll be back to finish your long post.

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #325 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 17:05:15 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055154852#msg1055154852 date=1579374790]
Quote
A Covenant is a Compact between 2 entities. God gave Moses HIS Laws, and made a compact with Israel on the exclusive manner in which these Laws would be administered, and how transgression of these Laws would be atoned for. This "compact" was called "The Levitical Priesthood" in the New Testament. Hebrews 7-10 explain this compact in great detail.

Needless to say, this is obviously just another of your inventions. For nowhere in scriptures speak of a Priesthood Covenant between the Levites and God.

No inspired writer, both in the OT and NT scriptures mention even once about a priesthood covenant between the Levites and God. This is clearly a fabrication and a deceptive lie.

When you correct someone about their beliefs, you really should know what you are talking about. And in this case, you absolutely don't.

Ex. 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Num. 1:47 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

48 For the LORD had spoken unto Moses, saying,

49 Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:

50 But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.

51 And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Numbers 3: 5 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.

7 And they shall keep his charge, and the charge of the whole congregation before the tabernacle of the congregation, to do the service of the tabernacle.

8 And they shall keep all the instruments of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the charge of the children of Israel, to do the service of the tabernacle.

9 And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons: they are wholly given unto him out of the children of Israel.

10 And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

Numbers 8:10 And thou shalt bring the Levites before the LORD: and the children of Israel shall put their hands upon the Levites:

11 And Aaron shall offer the Levites before the LORD for an offering of the children of Israel, that they may execute the service of the LORD.

12 And the Levites shall lay their hands upon the heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, unto the LORD, to make an atonement for the Levites.

13 And thou shalt set the Levites before Aaron, and before his sons, and offer them for an offering unto the LORD.

14 Thus shalt thou separate the Levites from among the children of Israel: and the Levites shall be mine.

Num. 8:18 And I have taken the Levites for all the firstborn of the children of Israel.

19 And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and to his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the service of the children of Israel in the tabernacle of the congregation, and to make an atonement for the children of Israel: that there be no plague among the children of Israel, when the children of Israel come nigh unto the sanctuary.

So once again, Your Preaching
Quote
"No inspired writer, both in the OT and NT scriptures mention even once about a priesthood covenant between the Levites and God. This is clearly a fabrication and a deceptive lie.
is exposed.

As it turns out, the Scriptures once again show your ignorance and foolishness. For God does indeed make a Covenant with the Levites on the Children of Israel's behalf as it is written. Paul explains why you don't believe the Law and Prophets in Romans 1.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

What is really sad, is that although the Scriptures clearly show the Covenant God made with Levi, on behalf of the Children of Israel, a covenant Abraham did not have, you will undoubtedly reject this outright. You and Winsome and Red will continue to promote your religious traditions of man, while the scriptures are proving you all just promoting your own religion.

You will continue to reject the Christ's Promise of a time when the Levites will no longer be in charge of the service of the Israelites in the temple of the Lord, nor with they perform the Priesthood "works" for the atonement of the sins of Israel. For the Christ Himself will change this Covenant, and provide a New and Better ministry.

Instead, you will call those with whom the Lord has shared this knowledge liars, and treat him with the same hatred and disdain as your fathers treated the Christ Himself for exposing the Mainstream Preachers of His time.

I said

"The Covenant was with and for Israel."

Quote
Obviously again, you fail to show this board that a Priesthood Covenant exist between Levites and God. But what we do have in scriptures is a covenant between Israel and God, not between Levites and God. To say and insist that there is Priesthood covenant between Levites and God is fabrication and obviously a deceptive lie, very similar to that of the old serpent's deceptive lie. EXPOSED!

What is exposed is your foolishness, and severe lack of knowledge about the Christ of the Bible, and your refusal to accept any Word's of the Christ which doesn't promote your ancient religious traditions.

So you can promote your own New Covenant, I don't care anymore.
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 19:22:21 by GB »

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #326 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 19:50:45 »
 author=RB link=topic=74624.msg1055154864#msg1055154864 date=1579387575]
Quote
Still working through your long post, but I intend to finish it if it takes me a week to do so. You are wrong as always~let us see what the scriptures said.  acording to Matthew, the they came at the END of the Sabbath, as it began to DAWN toward the FIRST day of the week.

And He was already raised from the dead and gone.
Quote
[/color][/u][/b]Which would have been SUNDAY MORNING to any Unbiased lover of the truth. That would be the Sunday, not Saturday. John added while it was yet dark on the FIRST day of the week, which would be on Sunday morning! Here the stone was rolled away~so we KNOW that sometime AFTER MIDNIGHT before the Sun came totally up on the first day of the week~Jesus had already risen.

God's Sabbath starts at sundown and ends at sundown. This is why they wanted to take down the body before sundown, the end of the day. At sundown, as soon as the Sabbath was over, she went to the grave. They didn't wait until Midnight Red. I know because I live it. When the sun sets, the New day begins. Sunday started at Sundown and Mary went to the Grave "While is was yet dark" and Jesus was already gone. In every account, they waited until God's Sabbath was over, at sundown on Sat. Night, to go to the Grave, and on all 4 accounts, He was already gone.


Quote
[/u][/i]NOT at sundown SATURDAY NIGHT, but the scriptures are clear that they came JUST BEFORE THE SUN CAME UP on the FIRST DAY of the week while it was yet dark, which could have been thirty minutes or even an hour or so, it makes no different, but we DO KNOW that it was EARLY IN THE MORNING!

Sunday morning starts at sundown on Saturday Night, at least it did in God's Day. "And the evening and the morning were the first day". The Disciples understood this and followed the Sabbath of the Bible which started at sundown on Friday, and ended on Sundown on Saturday.

The Catholics prescribe to the day man created which begins at midnight, but God's day did not.

Quote
The Jewish Sabbath was ended totally before Jesus was resurrected based upon the next witness from the word of God:

It was not the Jewish Sabbath, it was God's Sabbath, but even at that it began, and still begins at sundown. You know this, why do you reject this truth.


Quote
When people like you know that God's word exposes them as a liar, then they begin to get desperate and look for ways of rejecting that which clearly proves them to corrupters of God's word.


You are describing yourself Red. You are projecting your mind on to others. It's a very common tactic for religious men who are caught preaching lies about God's Word. Like the lie that Paul calls God's Commandment "Beggarly Elements, and that God's day began at midnight.

Quote
Comas, single words, etc, are just where they need to be IF one truly believes that the word of God is given by inspiration of God, and that God has protected his word for his children from the hands of wicked men.

Wicked men, are religious men, who come in Christ's name, who preach lies like Paul Calls God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements. and that God created a day which begins and ends in darkness.

Quote
Mark's account of Jesus' resurrection was on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is clearly stated.

Your preaching that this one sentence makes void the entire creation of God is foolishness.

Quote
I'll be back to finish your long post.

No, you will come back and continue to further the Constantinian religion that you are snared to promote.

There is no direction from, prophesy for, or instruction to honor a New Lord's Day. It is a 100% creation of ancient religious men, who are there to further the deception started by the serpent who deceive Eve into rejecting a direct commandment of God.

It's not too late for you to turn to the God of the Bible and repent. He is a merciful God.



Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #327 on: Sat Jan 18, 2020 - 23:55:46 »
Needless to say, this is obviously just another of your inventions. For nowhere in scriptures speak of a Priesthood Covenant between the Levites and God.

No inspired writer, both in the OT and NT scriptures mention even once about a priesthood covenant between the Levites and God. This is clearly a fabrication and a deceptive lie.
When you correct someone about their beliefs, you really should know what you are talking about. And in this case, you absolutely don't.

Ex. 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Num. 1:47 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

48 For the LORD had spoken unto Moses, saying,

49 Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:

50 But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.

51 And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Numbers 3: 5 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.

7 And they shall keep his charge, and the charge of the whole congregation before the tabernacle of the congregation, to do the service of the tabernacle.

8 And they shall keep all the instruments of the tabernacle of the congregation, and the charge of the children of Israel, to do the service of the tabernacle.

9 And thou shalt give the Levites unto Aaron and to his sons: they are wholly given unto him out of the children of Israel.

10 And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest's office: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

Numbers 8:10 And thou shalt bring the Levites before the LORD: and the children of Israel shall put their hands upon the Levites:

11 And Aaron shall offer the Levites before the LORD for an offering of the children of Israel, that they may execute the service of the LORD.

12 And the Levites shall lay their hands upon the heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, unto the LORD, to make an atonement for the Levites.

13 And thou shalt set the Levites before Aaron, and before his sons, and offer them for an offering unto the LORD.

14 Thus shalt thou separate the Levites from among the children of Israel: and the Levites shall be mine.

Num. 8:18 And I have taken the Levites for all the firstborn of the children of Israel.

19 And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and to his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the service of the children of Israel in the tabernacle of the congregation, and to make an atonement for the children of Israel: that there be no plague among the children of Israel, when the children of Israel come nigh unto the sanctuary.

Even if you quote the entire Bible, you won't be able to show any scripture that speaks of your fabricated "Priesthood Covenant" between God and Levites. What is there is a Covenant between God and Israel.

I am not correcting your belief. I am just pointing out the fabrications and deceptive lies you say and spread in this board.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Michael
"No inspired writer, both in the OT and NT scriptures mention even once about a priesthood covenant between the Levites and God. This is clearly a fabrication and a deceptive lie.
So once again, Your Preaching  is exposed.

What my post expose is your fabricated and deceptive lie. I would not be surprised if later on you will speak of a priesthood covenant between God and Jesus to replace this priesthood covenant between God and Levites. 

Quote from: GB
As it turns out, the Scriptures once again show your ignorance and foolishness. For God does indeed make a Covenant with the Levites on the Children of Israel's behalf as it is written. Paul explains why you don't believe the Law and Prophets in Romans 1.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

This scriptures applies to those who profess to be wise. And I sure don't and did not. Isn't you the one who professed to be wise? That you cannot be deceived by the religious men of the land you were born into? Have you not impressed upon us, that you have many many years of study about the religions of the land, of the scriptures, and come to have an understanding of it, one which is different and that none had ever had since the time of the apostles?

Quote from: GB
What is really sad, is that although the Scriptures clearly show the Covenant God made with Levi, on behalf of the Children of Israel, a covenant Abraham did not have, you will undoubtedly reject this outright. You and Winsome and Red will continue to promote your religious traditions of man, while the scriptures are proving you all just promoting your own religion.

What really is sad is that you continuously are deceived into believing that scriptures speaks about a so-called "Priesthood Covenant" even while there is really none. There is no covenant between God and the Levites. No inspired writer of scriptures speaks about such. Only you here does. What they do speak about is a covenant between God and Israel.

Quote from: GB
You will continue to reject the Christ's Promise of a time when the Levites will no longer be in charge of the service of the Israelites in the temple of the Lord, nor with they perform the Priesthood "works" for the atonement of the sins of Israel. For the Christ Himself will change this Covenant, and provide a New and Better ministry.

Such promise had already been fulfilled GB. It was fulfilled by and in Christ, already more than 2000 years from now. 

Quote from: GB
Instead, you will call those with whom the Lord has shared this knowledge liars, and treat him with the same hatred and disdain as your fathers treated the Christ Himself for exposing the Mainstream Preachers of His time.

I said

"The Covenant was with and for Israel."

I never called anyone a liar who speaks the truth. But I do call those who falsely accuse others, as liars. It brings to mind one of the 10 commandments of God, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

Yes, you said the covenant was with and for Israel. With that, I don't argue. But just so you would be aware, that is between God and Israel, not between God and the Levites. Israel is all of the 12 tribes, and the Levite tribe is only one among those. The Levites are not Israel.
 
Quote from: GB
What is exposed is your foolishness, and severe lack of knowledge about the Christ of the Bible, and your refusal to accept any Word's of the Christ which doesn't promote your ancient religious traditions.

So you can promote your own New Covenant, I don't care anymore.

False accusation again.

You may judge me as foolish and with severe lack of knowledge about Christ. Perhaps because you consider yourself to be wise and with full knowledge about Christ.

But to accuse me of refusal to accept any Word's of the Christ is a lie, for I never and will never reject any Word of Christ. It's your responsibility to cite any scriptures, word of Christ, which you accused of me to have rejected. Else what are you? Are you not a proud liar then? What I reject is the error of what you make out of the Word of Christ to mean.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 00:13:28 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #328 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 00:32:37 »
To all who take Saturday as being the seventh day Sabbath, and insist and force them upon other Christians,

Day 1 you say is the first day of creation, then the second day, then the 3rd, and the 4th, 5th, 6th, and finally the 7th day. And so there is the 7-day week. That after the 7th day of the first 7-day week, starts again the 1st day, until the 7th day that ends the second week. And so on and so forth.

Did anyone keep track of the weeks so that we may know how many days there had been now from day 1 of the first week? I doubt there was. Then, how do you know that the Saturday of today's calendar is the seventh day of the week, wherein the week is reckoned from Day 1? I am pretty sure, no one can be certain about that at this point.

So, having said that, why keep insisting that the seventh day Sabbath should be on a Saturday and not on any other day?

I hope you will realize the vanity in fighting over the Sabbath day, as to whether it is on a Saturday or Sunday. Let's start being united. Let each one be fully persuaded in his own mind concerning this things.

Romans 14
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 00:45:07 by Michael2012 »

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #329 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 01:44:01 »
To all here who believes that the Law under the Mosaic Covenant, that covenant between God and Israel whose mediator was Moses, was not done away with,

This is what is clear in scriptures, that the Mosaic Covenant, that covenant between God and Israel whose mediator was Moses, had been abolished and replaced by a new covenant (Heb. 8:8-13). This new covenant understandably remains to be a covenant between God and Israel.

Heb.8:3 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away

That cannot be any plainer. Whatever that which constitutes the old covenant is no more, is abolished. Some do not like the tune of that, in that, it offends them that the commandments of God, the 10 commandments in particular, are said to have been abolished as well. They could not believe it. But no matter how difficult that may be to accept, no matter how unbelievable that may be to them, that is just what it means when scriptures says the new covenant had made the former old and had vanished it away.

Now, let me tell them this, that while the old covenant, together with the Laws, is no more, there is a new covenant. This new covenant have God's laws, better promises, better ministry, better priesthood, better mediator, than the old. So you see, there really is nothing difficult at all in accepting the truth of what happened to the old covenant. In fact there is every reason to rejoice and be glad.

It's good news! Not only for Israel, but for the whole world.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #330 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 04:34:40 »
And He was already raised from the dead and gone.
Absoutely he was, and I never said otherwise! He was resurrected by the power of God sometime AFTER MIDNIGHT and BEFORE the sun came up on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, which tells me that they tracked time and days  just as we do today! I care little how they did it in the OT, I see clearly how time and days were determined in the NT. Let me give another example:
Quote from: Luke
Acts 20:7-11~"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed."
The break of day was when the sun came up, but the day started AT MIDNIGHT just as it still does today, NO DIFFERENT, and knowing that~ the coma in Mark 16 is PERFECTLY in its proper place! In my writings, I mess up on putting commas in their proper place, but the Holy Spirit does not!
Quote from: GB Reply #326 on: Yesterday at 19:50:45
God's Sabbath starts at sundown and ends at sundown. This is why they wanted to take down the body before sundown, the end of the day. At sundown, as soon as the Sabbath was over, she went to the grave. They didn't wait until Midnight Red. I know because I live it. When the sun sets, the New day begins. Sunday started at Sundown and Mary went to the Grave "While is was yet dark" and Jesus was already gone. In every account, they waited until God's Sabbath was over, at sundown on Sat. Night, to go to the Grave, and on all 4 accounts, He was already gone.
You CANNOT prove this by using the New Testament, as a matter of truth, it is very clear that it a day started just as it does now! You practicing certain days and time does not make them right, the scriptures will not support your understanding and even our society WORLDWIDE will not support that theory!  You have been duped ......again!
Quote from: GB Reply #326 on: Yesterday at 19:50:45
It was not the Jewish Sabbath, it was God's Sabbath, but even at that it began, and still begins at sundown. You know this, why do you reject this truth.
The "Seventh" day from creation that God blessed and the Jewish Sabbath are different, in many respects. The Jews had a SET DAY and TIME with NO FLEX ABILITY and it was for the WHOLE NATION at that time, day, with no flex ability.  I believe in the Genesis' Sabbath that every soul should rest their bodies AFTER SIX DAYS OF LABORING, and those days will vary from man to man from nation to nation as we have already mentioned a while back in this thread. I do not practice the JEWISH SABBATH as it was given to them, and neither I'm I commanded to do so. Even Jesus did not practice it as the religious sects of his days did! They thought and taught that man was made for the Sabbath, not the other way around~it was given in Genesis for our well being, both physical and spiritual~as mentioned above by us.
Quote from: GB Reply #326 on: Yesterday at 19:50:45
Your preaching that this one sentence makes void the entire creation of God is foolishness.
Mark 16 does nothing to overthrow the Sabbath as it was given in Genesis~what Mark's witness does is to overthrown your lying claims that Jesus was resurrected on the Jewish Sabbath. It was on the first day of the week which come to be known by the apostles as the Lord's Day per the Holy Ghost witness to us from Revelation 1:10. Mark's account is given to shut the mouths of gainsayers like you. One more time:
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Mark 16:9~"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils."
The Holy Ghost knows the difference between morning, evening, and midnight, it seems that you do not. I could heap scriptures upon you, but the word of God means very little to you as you protect your golden calf that you worship~that you found at the foot of Mount Sinai.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 04:38:18 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #331 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 06:13:15 »
In every Gospel He was already gone by early Sunday morning.

The religions of the land would have us believe He was killed on Friday and buried just before sundown Friday night. And that He rose before the sun came up on Sunday morning. That would mean He was in the grave only one day and two nights.

But this is only some of the evidence that exists for the Sabbath of the Lord. God knew what day He would raise from the dead before He created the 7 day week. He Blessed and Sanctified His Sabbath knowing it was the Lord's Day.

This explains why there isn't even one place in the entire Bible where Jesus told us, suggested, implied, commanded, or otherwise created a different "Sabbath of the Lord, or "Lord's Day". Nothing was ever said about it, ever.

Paul asked his brethren to count money and goods for the service of the saints on the first day, which of course he did. There are six days a week to count money and lay up supplies for the saints, but then 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord.

I just don't think one sentence in the entire Bible, with a misplaced comma, changed the Lord's Day. But I know how powerful ancient religious traditions of men and rudiments of the world are.
We follow the word of God, not the religion of Mystery Babylon, which has every abomination under heaven in the religious part of Mystery Babylon~it is not limited to Catholicism as you believe.

1. Jesus ate the Passover with His disciples on the evening of the fourteenth by Moses’ law (Exodus 12:6-8; Matthew 26:17-20; Mark 14:12-17; Luke 22:7-15).

2. The crucifixion began at 9:00 AM, and Jesus died after the darkness ended at 3:00 PM (Matthew 27:45-50; Mark 15:25,33-37; Luke 23:44-49).

3. Jesus was buried hurriedly as the preparation day ended and the high Sabbath day was about to begin (Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14,31,42).

4. The women who followed Jesus rested the high Sabbath day of the Passover before buying and preparing their spices (Mark 16:1 cp Exodus 12:16).

5. The women bought their spices and prepared them on the regular workday between the two Sabbaths days this week (Mark 16:1 cp Luke 23:55-56).

6. The women rested during the weekly Sabbath day after buying and preparing their spices the previous workday (Luke 23:55-56 cp Exodus 20:10).

7. Jesus rose from the dead as the weekly Sabbath ended – three days and three nights after burial – as prophesied (Matthew 12:39-40; Mark 8:31).

8. While it was still dark, the morning of the first day of the week, the women found the tomb already empty (Matt 28:1-6; Luke 24:1-3; John 20:1).

9. The gospel record of Jesus Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection prove His identifying sign of three days and three nights (Matthew 12:39-40).

So, let us count the days and nights: Wednesday afternoon to Thursday afternoon~One day and one full night.

Thursday afternoon to Friday afternoon~One day and one full night.

Friday afternoon to Saturday afternoon~One day and one full night

He arose from the dead  after three days and three nights and according to the testimony of the scriptures on the FIRST DAY of a new week which would be sometime AFTER MID-NIGHT BEFORE the sun came totally up on the first day of a new week!

You are just as deceived as those who hold to a Friday crucifixion. 



 
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 03:36:24 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #332 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 06:46:55 »
I just don't think one sentence in the entire Bible, with a misplaced comma, changed the Lord's Day.
One more thought before leaving this post by you: We believe our English version to be Scripture as much as the copies and/or translations studied by the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:32,35), the Bereans (Acts 17:11), and Timothy (2nd Timothy 3:15-17). So we believe we should study every word and grammatical construction with great care, for we understand by faith we are reading and studying the very words God intended for us to have.
Quote from: GB Reply #276 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 10:29:14
But I know how powerful ancient religious traditions of men and rudiments of the world are.
So do we, and you are living proof of this.

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #333 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 09:28:37 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055154874#msg1055154874 date=1579413346]
Quote
Even if you quote the entire Bible, you won't be able to show any scripture that speaks of your fabricated "Priesthood Covenant" between God and Levites. What is there is a Covenant between God and Israel.


Quote
What really is sad is that you continuously are deceived into believing that scriptures speaks about a so-called "Priesthood Covenant" even while there is really none. There is no covenant between God and the Levites. No inspired writer of scriptures speaks about such. Only you here does. What they do speak about is a covenant between God and Israel.

Michael, I know you believe and preach that anyone who says God made a Covenant with Levi on Israel's behalf is a Liar and a deceiver. This you have learned from your religious leaders. But the Christ is not a Liar, or a Deceiver. I believe He made a Covenant with Levi, and gave them for a Priesthood to the Children of Israel, not because the Pope said so, or some other "great theologian" said so, but because the Christ Himself said so. At least the Christ of the Bible said so.

Mal. 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.

3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, (EX. 32:26-28) and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Hebrews 8 also confirms this.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant (Levitical Priesthood) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

And again;

Heb. 8:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

I know you have been taught differently from the religions of the land we are born into. And like Saul, you are Zealous for the religious traditions of your fathers.


 But God is not a liar, HIS Word's are truth. You preach HE didn't make a Covenant with the Levites. God said He did. Just because I choose His Word's over yours doesn't make me a Liar, or a Deceiver.

Will you be corrected?


Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #334 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 10:00:00 »
 author=RB link=topic=74624.msg1055154853#msg1055154853 date=1579374983]
Quote
GB, what we DO HAVE is God's SILENCE on the subject that NO ONE practiced the Sabbath AS it was GIVEN TO ISRAEL. That's more than you can ever produce!

In One chapter at the beginning of the Holy scriptures, yes, He was silent about a lot of things. He didn't define Adultery, yet Abimelech knew of God's Law regarding it. He was silent regarding His Creation of clean and unclean animals, yet Noah knew what was clean, and what was unclean.

He was silent about the law "Thou shall not look on the nakedness of your father", yet two of Noah's sons knew of this Law. He was silent regarding the Law to Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart. Will you also preach this wasn't part of His Law structure given to Abraham?

But you will not even discuss these Biblical Truths, or anything which might bring question to the traditions of the Catholic religion.

Quote
You said: GB, from Adam to Moses we DO HAVE God's voice on this matter concerning eating meats, etc.~have you never read so much as this? GB, you are arguing against God, not me. The ONLY thing that man from the beginning was forbidden to eat is BLOOD of everything that moveth upon the earth~part of the SAME commandments that the apostles gave to the Gentiles in Acts 15:20!

And yet, Abraham was blessed because He kept God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that you preach didn't exist until 430 years after Abraham.

Quote
Acts ten is an important part of NT scriptures basically showing us that NO animals are unclean under the NT for us. The many unclean beasts mentioned in Leviticus 11; etc. where a TYPE OF GENTILES DOGS/HAIRY PIGS that Israel was supposed to SEPARATE themselves from~AFTER the death of Jesus Christ, the gospel is to go out into ALL THE WORLD and no NT Christian has a right to look at anyone as UNCLEAN for God is visiting the Gentiles nations and FROM THEM gathering a people from among them. Those OT animals are NOT forbidden for us, we were ONCE one of those UNCLEAN beasts, but no more. 


A discussion into Your rejection of yet another Commandment of God will have to wait for another time. Right now you are preaching that just because God didn't define His Commandments, Statutes, and Laws until Exodus, means they didn't exist.

This preaching can not be supported by Scriptures as the first part of my posts show.

Gen. 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Abraham knew of the Lamb of God, "slain from the foundation of the world", yet, God was silent through out Genesis on this topic as well.

The implication in your preaching that Passover couldn't exist until Exodus because God was silent to us about it until Exodus is foolishness. Just another desperate attempt to preserve a precious ancient religious tradition.

Foolishness Red. Foolish philosophy of men who transgress the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions.



Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #335 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 10:27:09 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055154876#msg1055154876 date=1579415557]
Quote
To all who take Saturday as being the seventh day Sabbath, and insist and force them upon other Christians,

No one is forcing anything on anyone Michael. Some of us believe ALL the Word's of the Christ, and His Definition of HIS New Covenant, and HIS Holy Sabbath. We are discerning between the religious doctrines and traditions of man, and the actual Word's of the Christ. The assumption is that a "Christian" ought to walk even as Jesus walked.

 But as all the warnings and examples of religious voices telling lies about God show, like your preaching that God never made a covenant with Levites, discussions about the actual instructions of God bring divisions and anger. So you falsely claim God's Sabbath is being forced on you, when the truth is you are being shown the actual Words of the Christ. It is His Words that cause you anger as they expose so much of your doctrines as from religious men.

For me, I have said over and over that you are free to preach anything you want. But it is my duty to point out when your preaching and the Christ's teaching part ways. For your good and mine.

Your religious traditions regarding the old and new covenant's of the Christ are a perfect example of this division.

I would think you would want to know, or at least discuss the scriptures which bring your religious doctrines unto question.

But then, the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus' time didn't.


Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #336 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 10:31:05 »
One more thought before leaving this post by you: We believe our English version to be Scripture as much as the copies and/or translations studied by the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:32,35), the Bereans (Acts 17:11), and Timothy (2nd Timothy 3:15-17). So we believe we should study every word and grammatical construction with great care, for we understand by faith we are reading and studying the very words God intended for us to have.So do we, and you are living proof of this.

And yet you reject so much of the Christ's Own Word's regarding His Sabbath, to preserve your own sabbath.

Religious men have been polluting and despising the Christ's Holy Sabbaths for Centuries. It is no surprise that these same religious traditions continue today.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #337 on: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 13:49:33 »
And yet, Abraham was blessed because He kept God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that you preach didn't exist until 430 years after Abraham.
Let me show just how deceitful you are. You said these words when quoting some on my words while omitting the main thing that I was saying to you~follow me, please, and let me see if I can filter through your lying words Again you said:
Quote from: GB on: Today at 10:00:00
And yet, Abraham was blessed because He kept God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that you preach didn't exist until 430 years after Abraham.
you halfway quoted me when you put some of my words in a quote box to comment on:
Quote from: GB
GB, from Adam to Moses we DO HAVE God's voice on this matter concerning eating meats, etc.~have you never read so much as this? GB, you are arguing against God, not me. The ONLY thing that man from the beginning was forbidden to eat is BLOOD of everything that moveth upon the earth~part of the SAME commandments that the apostles gave to the Gentiles in Acts 15:20!
You left out Genesis 9:3! I ask you have you not read so much as this:
Quote from: God
Genesis 9:3~"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."
Why did you not respond to God's words to Noah? I know why, and so do all others know why! You conveniently said:
Quote from: GB  on: Today at 10:00:00
A discussion into Your rejection of yet another Commandment of God will have to wait for another time
So you do not want to discuss Genesis 9:3 and Acts 10? You are doing just as the Pharisees did to Christ when they KNEW that he put them in a situation that answering him would expose their hypocrisy and and lies.
Quote from: GB GB  on: Today at 10:00:00
And yet, Abraham was blessed because He kept God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws that you preach didn't exist until 430 years after Abraham.
One of your many ad hominem~Abraham knew God's commandments that pertain to practical godliness, he did not have all of the many ordinances and commandments that were given to Israel AS A NATION and neither did Moses UNTIL God gave them, which should be obvious to any anyone with any reading comprehension and who has no bias doctrine to push. Many of those ordinances were shadows and types imposed on them until Christ and the times of the true biblical reformation period, and then they ENDED!
Quote from: The HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 9:1-10~"Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."
According to Acts ten, those many unclean beasts that Israel was forbidden to eat, was a TYPE OF UNCLEAN GENTILES DOGS~but under the New Testament NO creeping thing is unclean JUST AS IT WAS IN NOAH'S DAY according to Genesis 9:3.
Quote
Hebrews 10a"For the law having a shadow of good things to come...."
The revelation of many OT laws concerning meats, days, offerings, etc, see their fulfillment and purposes in the NT.

I'm going to use the rest of the day as a REST for my weary soul in dealing with heretics like you.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 15:50:24 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #338 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 03:53:39 »
Quote from: The LORD God
Genesis 9:3~"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."
From creation to Noah to Moses, every moving thing that liveth was created to be meat for man~they were made to be taken, using NT language. The only exception was that it had to be living, and they were not permitted to have the blood of any living creature. Why would anyone think otherwise? How do we think man was clothed before we came up with manufactory plants?
Quote from: The Holy Ghost
Hebrews 11:37~They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;"
They killed the animals for food, and then use their skins for clothes.

The Lord created the brute beast to be food for us, that we may eat their flesh. Vain men would labor to be wise above what is written by saying before the flood that the natural fruits of the earth were his only food. But the argument cannot be proven. God here does not bestow on men more than he had previously given, but only restores what had been taken away, that they might again enter on the possession of those good things from which they had been excluded. For since they had before offered sacrifices to God, and were also permitted to kill wild beasts, from the hides and skins of which, they might make for themselves garments and tents, What should prevent them from the eating of flesh? We see the wisdom and kindness of God in providing for us as he did by his bountiful creation of such beast of the field~and Paul taught us that we are at liberty to eat what we please, only we do it with thanksgiving and the assurance of conscience, but that he who imagines anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean, (Romans 14:14.) And whence has this happened to man, that he should eat whatever food he pleased before God, with a tranquil mind, and not with unbridled license, except from his knowing, that it has been divinely delivered into his hand by the right of donation? Wherefore, the word of God sanctifies the creatures, that we may purely and lawfully feed on them, (1st Timothy 4:5.) Let the adage be utterly rejected which says, 'that no one can feed and refresh his body with a morsel of bread, without, at the same time, defiling his soul.' Therefore it is not to be doubted, that the Lord designed to confirm our faith, when he expressly declares by Moses, that he gave to man the free use of flesh, so that we might not eat it with a doubtful and trembling conscience. At the same time, however, he invites us to thanksgiving. On this account also, Paul adds "prayer" to the "word", in defining the method of sanctification in the passage such given.

And now we must firmly retain the liberty given us by the Lord, and let no man bind our conscience concerning such thing. For, by this word, he addresses all the posterity of Noah, and renders this gift common to all ages. And why is this done, but that the faithful may boldly assert their right to that which, they know, has proceeded from God. For it is an insupportable tyranny, when God, the Creator of all things, has laid open to us the earth and the air, in order that we may thence take food as from his storehouse~atrocious injury is done to God, when we give such license to men as to allow them to pronounce that unlawful which God designs to be lawful, and to bind consciences which the word of God sets free, with their fictitious laws. The fact that God prohibited his ancient people from the use of unclean animals, seeing that exception was but temporary, is here passed over by Moses for good reasons, for Moses knew that those laws and commandments TO ISRAEL~were not given because man was not permitted to eat such things, but God used certain animals to portray the unclean nations around them that Israel was to be separate from, but it was "ONLY" for them and only until the time of Christ which is clearly proven by Acts 10.   
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 04:30:53 by RB »

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #339 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 04:16:09 »
Michael, I know you believe and preach that anyone who says God made a Covenant with Levi on Israel's behalf is a Liar and a deceiver. This you have learned from your religious leaders. But the Christ is not a Liar, or a Deceiver. I believe He made a Covenant with Levi, and gave them for a Priesthood to the Children of Israel, not because the Pope said so, or some other "great theologian" said so, but because the Christ Himself said so. At least the Christ of the Bible said so.

GB, I learn and learned from my leader and teacher, the Holy Spirit, not from any man.

Quote from: GB
Mal. 2:1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.

3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, (EX. 32:26-28) and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Apparently, you finally found scriptures that do speak of a covenant between God and Levi. And it appears that that might well refer to a covenant of priesthood. I owe you an apology then regarding the matter of a covenant of priesthood between God and the Levites. So, please accept my sincere apologies. Let it be on record then that I am here striking out every word I said against you on this matter. I will surely examine and study this matter.

Quote from: GB
Hebrews 8 also confirms this.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant (Levitical Priesthood) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

And again;

Heb. 8:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

However, in Hebrews 8, I don't find that this covenant of priesthood with Levi is that which is referred to as "first covenant". For it is clear in verses 9 and 10, that it is the covenant with Israel (not with Levites only) that is referred to.

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


While it is true that the Levitical priesthood was changed, the covenant spoken here by the inspired writer of Hebrews which have been replaced by a new covenant is the covenant God made with Israel in the day that God led them out of the land of Egypt. 

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #340 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 04:25:49 »
To all who take Saturday as being the seventh day Sabbath, and insist and force them upon other Christians,
No one is forcing anything on anyone Michael.

Perhaps you aren't among those who force and insist upon other Christians, Saturday to be the Sabbath day. But there are those who does. So, if you aren't among them, then my post on that does not apply to you.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #341 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 04:42:43 »
However, in Hebrews 8, I don't find that this covenant of priesthood with Levi is that which is referred to as "first covenant". For it is clear in verses 9 and 10, that it is the covenant with Israel (not with Levites only) that is referred to.
The reason why is that the FIRST COVENANT was made with Adam and gradually is unfolded until Moses where it is given in great detail to Israel. The first covenant with man in the garden of Eden, the second covenant WITH CHRIST starting BEFORE the foundation of the world and gradually revealed from Abel to Noah to Abraham to David unto Christ where it is fully seen.

Let us start a new thread and consider the Two Covenants~one based upon WORKS, one based upon God's oath and promises of grace.  This is not the thread to discuss these things.

Offline Michael2012

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3641
  • Manna: 12
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #342 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 05:28:49 »
The reason why is that the FIRST COVENANT was made with Adam and gradually is unfolded until Moses where it is given in great detail to Israel. The first covenant with man in the garden of Eden, the second covenant WITH CHRIST starting BEFORE the foundation of the world and gradually revealed from Abel to Noah to Abraham to David unto Christ where it is fully seen.

Let us start a new thread and consider the Two Covenants~one based upon WORKS, one based upon God's oath and promises of grace.  This is not the thread to discuss these things.

I'll look forward to that thread.

Online 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11074
  • Manna: 308
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #343 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 07:23:04 »
The reason why is that the FIRST COVENANT was made with Adam and gradually is unfolded until Moses where it is given in great detail to Israel.
It is a mistake to think of the first covenant, that covenant being reference for example in Hebrews, as being made with Adam.  There were indeed promises given to Adam, to Abraham, to others, but such promises do not constitute the first covenant.  That is specifically a covenant between God and national Israel through God's messenger Moses:

Exo 19:3  while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4  You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
Exo 19:5  Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
Exo 19:6  and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel."


See also  passages such as Deuteronomy 7.6, 14.2, 26.19, 28.9

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8280
  • Manna: 386
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #344 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 08:03:25 »
It is a mistake to think of the first covenant, that covenant being reference for example in Hebrews, as being made with Adam.  There were indeed promises given to Adam, to Abraham, to others, but such promises do not constitute the first covenant.  That is specifically a covenant between God and national Israel through God's messenger Moses:

Exo 19:3  while Moses went up to God. The LORD called to him out of the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the people of Israel:
Exo 19:4  You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself.
Exo 19:5  Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;
Exo 19:6  and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel."


See also  passages such as Deuteronomy 7.6, 14.2, 26.19, 28.9

Brother, I said:
Quote
FIRST COVENANT was made with Adam and gradually is unfolded until Moses where it is given in great detail to Israel.
Maybe time will permit us to start a thread on this subject, for I have been considering this in the last couple of weeks~just to get a break from this thread.

Online 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11074
  • Manna: 308
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #345 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 08:28:18 »
There are a number of covenants given us in Scripture between God and others.  I am not aware of any such "covenant" between God and Adam presented anywhere in Scripture.  For example the Noahaic Covenant given in Genesis 9:8-17.  And then there are any number of promises to others made by God.  But such promises do not necessarily constitute covenants. 

As I indicated, the first covenant as referenced in Hebrews is, without question, the Old Covenant made with the nation Israel based upon the Law of Moses as I noted above in Exodus 19 (and elsewhere).  For what it is worth, I do not see it as an "unfolding" of any earlier covenant.

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #346 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 08:35:22 »
 author=RB link=topic=74624.msg1055154911#msg1055154911 date=1579463373]
Quote
Let me show just how deceitful you are. You said these words when quoting some on my words while omitting the main thing that I was saying to you~follow me, please, and let me see if I can filter through your lying words Again you said: you halfway quoted me when you put some of my words in a quote box to comment on:You left out Genesis 9:3! I ask you have you not read so much as this:Why did you not respond to God's words to Noah? I know why, and so do all others know why! You conveniently said: So you do not want to discuss Genesis 9:3 and Acts 10?

Gen. 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

If I were to follow your religious tactic, I would have to believe that I don't exist. I can not possibly be alive because right here God said "ALL Flesh" died.

So in the Red Religion, I could single out this verse to promote some obscure religion which teaches no one really exists. And when a man would question me, I would rush to this verse and post it and then call that man a Heretic because he don't believe God's own Words.

It's really a foolish position you take Red. The Holy Scriptures are meant to be read as a whole. (Live by Every Word of God) At least according to the Jesus of the Bible. When we do this, we find out that the flood really didn't destroy all flesh. So then this verse can not be understood unless you read the "rest of the story".

It's the same with your use of Gen. 9:3 to promote your own religion.

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

But there are moving things that if you eat them, or feed them to your children will kill them. There are plants that are deadly poison that will kill you if you eat them. A painful, poisoned, harsh death. If you feed these to your enemy and he dies, you will not get out of jail by using Gen. 9:3 as your defense. And those "herbs" and moving things that will kill you were also created by God. So how is it He is telling us that every moving thing shall be meat for us?

Just like with the Gen. 7 verse I posted, a person has to follow the instructions of the Christ and consider every Word of God in order to understand this verse. And when you do this, you find that "Every Moving Thing" and "every green herb" is not for food, just as we find that not "ALL" Flesh was NOT destroyed in the flood.

That in fact God destroyed much life by the flood, but not all, and you find that God created many moving things for food, and many green herbs for food, but not all.

Paul describes what has happened to you Red.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Your arguments are always about saving your own face, and preserving your own precious religion, regardless of what the Scriptures actually say, when you follow Jesus' and Paul's instructions regarding them.

Quote
And now we must firmly retain the liberty given us by the Lord, and let no man bind our conscience concerning such thing. For, by this word, he addresses all the posterity of Noah, and renders this gift common to all ages. And why is this done, but that the faithful may boldly assert their right to that which, they know, has proceeded from God. For it is an insupportable tyranny, when God, the Creator of all things, has laid open to us the earth and the air, in order that we may thence take food as from his storehouse~atrocious injury is done to God, when we give such license to men as to allow them to pronounce that unlawful which God designs to be lawful, and to bind consciences which the word of God sets free, with their fictitious laws. The fact that God prohibited his ancient people from the use of unclean animals, seeing that exception was but temporary, is here passed over by Moses for good reasons, for Moses knew that those laws and commandments TO ISRAEL~were not given because man was not permitted to eat such things, but God used certain animals to portray the unclean nations around them that Israel was to be separate from, but it was "ONLY" for them and only until the time of Christ which is clearly proven by Acts 10.
 

A poison dart frog will kill you if you eat it. It was created that way and labeled "unclean" for food. It is still unclean for food. There are also animals that will not kill you that God also deemed unclean for food. Now religious men might agree with God's judgment regarding the poison frog, that it was not created for human consumption. But what of the other animals He placed in the same classification?

Here is what happened to you Red. I will Paraphrase;

 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto Red, Yea, Did God's Commandment say, Ye shall eat animals which roam the earth?

 And Red said unto the serpent, We may eat of the animals of the earth :

 But of swine and shellfish, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

And the serpent said unto Red, Ye shall not surely die, you are already saved:

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject His Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And when Red saw that swine and snails were good for food, and that it was pleasant to his eyes, and popular food of the nations around him, he took of the swine and slugs thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto all his friends; and they did eat.

Quote
You are doing just as the Pharisees did to Christ when they KNEW that he put them in a situation that answering him would expose their hypocrisy and and lies. One of your many ad hominem~Abraham knew God's commandments that pertain to practical godliness, he did not have all of the many ordinances and commandments that were given to Israel AS A NATION and neither did Moses UNTIL God gave them, which should be obvious to any anyone with any reading comprehension and who has no bias doctrine to push. Many of those ordinances were shadows and types imposed on them until Christ and the times of the true biblical reformation period, and then they ENDED! According to Acts ten, those many unclean beasts that Israel was forbidden to eat, was a TYPE OF UNCLEAN GENTILES DOGS~but under the New Testament NO creeping thing is unclean JUST AS IT WAS IN NOAH'S DAY according to Genesis 9:3. The revelation of many OT laws concerning meats, days, offerings, etc, see their fulfillment and purposes in the NT.


The scriptures say "What God has cleansed". There is not one place in the Bible which teaches your religion above. Man is considered unclean "BECAUSE" they refuse to Honor God and HIS Laws. Jew and Gentile.

The Pharisees, like you, rejected God's definition of clean and unclean, holy and unholy, and created their own religion with their own definition of these things. Like it was unlawful to take a walk on the Sabbath and pick a strawberry to eat, or it was unlawful to pick and apple of a tree and eat it unless you washed your hands a certain way. "and many such things they did". They promoted for doctrines "the commandments of men" not God. That is the very reason they didn't know God when He came to them in the Flesh. We know God cleansed Rehab and Cornelius, but where did He make the poison dart frog clean for food? Or where did He make the slug or swine clean for food?

You made them clean Red, in your own mind, not God. Just as Eve made the forbidden fruit, un-forbidden in her own mind. And you did so by listening to "other voices" just as Eve did. Jesus didn't reverse His own creation, He casted evil spirits onto swine. Do you preach He cast these spirits on peoples food? Maybe the nations who despised God's Laws consider swine clean, but Jesus never did, and neither did His People throughout the entire Bible. This same Spirit of the Christ inspired Isaiah to teach to the world that when Jesus comes back:

Is. 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

It's just like your preaching that Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements". these are your words, your religion, your religious traditions and doctrine. God's Word says no such thing.


Quote
I'm going to use the rest of the day as a REST for my weary soul in dealing with heretics like you.

You are missing so much Red. You are a slave to a religion which has rejected so much of God's Word. You are burdened with so many falsehoods that you believe are true. I bounce back and forth between anger at your refusal to hear your own preaching, and pity because I too, was once held captive by religious doctrines and traditions of men, and I know the power of the addiction.

The Christ, in His Grace and Tender Mercy, has given us all insight into exactly how satan deceives the whole world. All we need to do is believe Him.

satan comes quoting some of God's Word, and the very first thing it does is convince us before anything else, that we are already saved. Already gifted with eternal life. Then it goes on to convince us that God's instruction really doesn't matter anymore. That they are a blinding burden, a yoke of deceit, rudiments of the world. And once it has convinced you, as it did Eve, then you become it's servant, furthering it's will and you don't even know it, any more than Eve knew she was killing her own husband when she convinced him to reject God's Commandment same as her.

And what shall I do with the Liberty I received when the truth of the Gospel set me free? Shall I hide it from you because you call me a heretic out of ignorance? Shall I hide the Light from others just to save myself from ridicule and name calling?

No Red, I will not.





Offline winsome

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5612
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #347 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 09:27:56 »
There are a number of covenants given us in Scripture between God and others.  I am not aware of any such "covenant" between God and Adam presented anywhere in Scripture.
Some translations (e.g. NIV, RSV) translate Hosea 6:7 as "But at[a] Adam they transgressed the covenant;" where the footnote for [a] says "Heb like"

Offline winsome

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5612
  • Manna: 94
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #348 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 09:48:55 »
Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 GB,
I wasn’t going to post again in this thread, but I want to make a point about your claim and leave it at that.
You say (for example) that Abraham kept all God’s laws (Gen 26:5) but you fail to distinguish between categories of laws and their applicability.

I think there are two categories - some may divide them into more.
 1. Moral Laws, also known as Natural Law. These are laws that are intrinsically of a moral nature. They define what is morally right and wrong. They are applicable to all people in all times. Examples are murder and theft.
 2. Social Laws. These are laws that a society makes for the good of all in the society. They are not intrinsically moral. An example would be which side of the road to drive on. In the USA the law is to drive on the right. In the UK the law is to drive on the left. There is nothing intrinsically right or wrong about either but it is for the good of society that all in that society do the same.

Similarly there are laws about authority and hierarchy. In the USA a President is elected but does not take up the role until he is inaugurated. There are laws about how this is done and the powers he/she has.

In the UK we have a monarchy. When the Monarch dies (e.g. the current Queen) the successor (in this case Prince Charles) becomes king immediately. The formal coronation takes place many months later. Again there are laws about her/his powers.

Such social laws are applicable only to the people in a particular society at a particular time. They can be changed

I believe it is a moral law for individuals to worship God. But assembling, and when and how to worship God is a social law. There is nothing intrinsically moral about worshipping on a particular day. In the case of the Israelites God gave them instructions on when and how to assemble and worship him as part of their Covenant. And by their Covenant I mean the one made with them on Sinai with Moses as the Mediator. It was a Covenant they agreed to be bound by. Scripture tells us it was given to them in Ex 16:23 onwards. They were instructed to keep a Sabbath on the 7th day of the week.

This was also given to them as a sign (token) of the Covenant. This is very important as failure to keep the sign of the Covenant meant they would be disassociating themselves from the Covenant. This is why God was so angry with Moses when he failed to circumcise his son (Ex 4:25); circumcision being the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.

This social law was not given to the Israelites before Ex 16:23. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day.(Dt 5:2-3).

Nor was it given to gentiles.

Therefore we are not bound to it.
 

Online GB

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1307
  • Manna: 9
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.
« Reply #349 on: Mon Jan 20, 2020 - 10:12:54 »
author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055154942#msg1055154942 date=1579515369]
Quote
GB, I learn and learned from my leader and teacher, the Holy Spirit, not from any man.

Yes, any Biblical Truth you learn comes from the Spirit of God. Just don't forget that when the preachers of Jesus time and before were furthering doctrines of men, He didn't send His Holy Spirit to correct them. He sent nobodies, donkeys, even poor carpenters. And these didn't bring their own religion or word's, they brought God's Words.

Quote
Apparently, you finally found scriptures that do speak of a covenant between God and Levi. And it appears that that might well refer to a covenant of priesthood. I owe you an apology then regarding the matter of a covenant of priesthood between God and the Levites. So, please accept my sincere apologies. Let it be on record then that I am here striking out every word I said against you on this matter. I will surely examine and study this matter.

No, I didn't finally find a scripture that you can't ignore. I posted the details of His Covenant with Levi, but you didn't believe them. I'm glad you have found scriptures that you can not ignore.

Thank you, apologies accepted.

Quote
However, in Hebrews 8, I don't find that this covenant of priesthood with Levi is that which is referred to as "first covenant". For it is clear in verses 9 and 10, that it is the covenant with Israel (not with Levites only) that is referred to.

I never said it was for Levites only. The entire Priesthood wasn't for the Levites, they were God's. God separated them from Israel for a purpose. And that purposes was entirely for the Children of Israel. How they received God's Laws, and how their sins were atoned for. This is the First Covenant He made with Israel, He gave them the Levitical Priesthood.

As for Heb.

 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

It is all about the Priesthood. From Hebrews 7 to the end of Heb. 10, there is no mention of any other Law. Not the 10 commandments, not the Holy Days, not the 2 Greatest commandments. Every verse in these 4 chapters in Hebrews centers on the Levitical Priesthood which had become obsolete, replaced by a New and Better ministry, made with better promises. No more human Priests to administer God's Laws, He will administer them Himself. No more Levite Priests to take a sacrifice to, the Christ will sprinkle HIS own Blood on the alter.

As it is written;

Quote
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Quote
While it is true that the Levitical priesthood was changed, the covenant spoken here by the inspired writer of Hebrews which have been replaced by a new covenant is the covenant God made with Israel in the day that God led them out of the land of Egypt.

I know we are both bucking centuries of religious traditions so I understand how difficult it is to understand that we could actually believe things about the Bible which are not true. It was a hard pill for me, as it was for Nicodemus, and it will also be a hard pill for you.

Bear with me here for just one minute.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So this is the Covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That Isaacs seed, children, or in other words, the Children of Israel, will be given all the countries, blessed and so on, because Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments.

Now when the Children of Israel cried out to God because of bondage. (Deception, slave to sin, etc.,) What was the first thing God said?

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

So God gave the Children of Israel HIS Statutes, HIS Commandments and HIS Laws, just as He did to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. This was the Covenant of Abraham given to the Children of Israel.

But in Ex. 32, after they received the 10 commandments, after they received the Passover and God's Holy Sabbath, Israel rebelled and transgressed God's Laws.

Ex. 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
 
And God's wrath was kindled against them.

Ex. 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

So God chose the tribe of Levi, and made a covenant with him on behalf of the Children of Israel. I already posted the scriptures Michael, they detail the compact God made with Levi for the administration of God's Laws, and for the atonement of the sins of the Children of Israel.

This Levitical Priesthood is the Law of Moses. It is the First Covenant God made with the Children of Israel. God's definition of clean and unclean, Holy and unholy, good and evil already existed for Abraham. The Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" 430 years after him because of transgressions of these laws. And was ADDED "till the Seed should come". Paul says so in Gal. 3:19.

This Priesthood was not part of the Laws, Commandments and Statutes Abraham had, He was justified "apart" from this Law.

This Priesthood IS the Old Covenant Michael. At least according to the Bible.

You didn't know about God's Covenant with Levi and called me a Liar for saying it. I hold no hard feeling whatsoever, I'm just pointing out that you believed something so much, that you accused a Brother of sin and called him a deceiver, only to find out that he wasn't lying to you at all. That he wasn't deceiving you at all. In fact, the truth is you were the one that was deceived, and it was you who furthered this deception on others.

  I don't care about all that. What I care about is you and your spiritual well being.

You do your study of the Levites and their Covenant God made with them on Israel's behalf. But whatever you do, don't go to a Levite Priest, or Catholic preacher, and any religious man for your answers. Go in your own closet, alone, shut the door, fast, pray, seek Him with all your heart, regardless of any other religious voice. If you are just here to promote and justify your own religious lifestyle, God will know. But if you are truly seeking to know Him, from the heart, He is faithful to perform His Promises.



 

     
anything