author=RB link=topic=74624.msg1055154830#msg1055154830 date=1579357751]
Nowhere in the church epistles, or even in the Acts of the apostles do we read that they sat THAT DAY apart for worship. The Jews did, but not the epistles of any NT church! A few facts to consider:
1. Although God blessed the seventh day at creation, he did not command it as a day of rest until the time of Moses. The Sabbath law was added 430 years after Abraham, as part of the law of Moses, given to Israelites only.
Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments
, my statutes
, and my laws.
You have no Scriptural evidence that God's Laws, commandments, and Statutes HE gave to Abraham, didn't include HIS Feasts, or Sabbaths. We know God "ADDED" a Levitical Priesthood 430 years later because of transgressions of God's Laws, Commandments and statutes. But we have nothing that would indicate that God didn't share His Sanctification and Blessing of the 7th Day at creation with Abraham and Noah, nor do we have any evidence that God didn't share or define His creation of clean and unclean animals with Noah or Abraham.
We do know that Abraham understood who the Lamb of God was to be, and we know Noah knew God's Definition of clean and unclean animals. Just because God didn't define these things for us until much later in His Word, doesn't mean they didn't exist.
2. When the early church decided that Gentiles did not need to become proselytes or to keep the law of Moses (Acts 15), the decision meant, in that culture, that Gentiles did not need to obey the law of Moses concerning the Sabbath.
The Jews were not keeping God's Sabbath Red, they despised God's Sabbath and had created their own. This was part of the "burdens" the Pharisees attempted laid on the shoulders (Necks) of the Disciples and their fathers.
These doctrines or "Yoke" the Jews were trying to burden the New Converts with were not the Commandments and Laws Zechariahs and Simeon followed.
What I think you are missing, is that the Jews were trying to get the Gentiles to honor their Priesthood. To come to them for atonement. To follow their religious traditions they called the Law of Moses, instead of the Commandments of God. Jesus said they taught for doctrines the commandments of men. The Disciples directed them instead to the true Laws of God and directed them to immediately abstain from doing what they apparently were doing.
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols,(God's Law) and from fornication,(God's Law) and from things strangled,(God's Law) and from blood.(God's Law)
Pater saw fit to direct them to obey 4 of God's Commandments immediately, 2 pertaining to unclean foods, and two pertaining to morality.
Then He instructed the Gentile Converts in the same exact manner in which Jesus instructed them.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
I think religious men have corrupted this chapter to promote ancient religious traditions of rejecting God's Commandments, as was common through out the Law and Prophets. But when a man clears his mind of the teaching of the religions of the land, it becomes clear that the Disciples were promoting God's Laws, while teaching against the religious doctrines of the land.
If you believe otherwise, then what are you going to do with: You and others can add to this list, but you will be showing yourself an enemy to the apostles and the word of God. IF the Jewish Sabbath days were important as you want others to believe then THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VERY PLACE for the apostles to mentioned it, yet they did not, and for good reasons.
Yes, because they were already following it. Not the Sabbath the Jews preached, but the Sabbath of the Lord. They weren't murdering people either, or stealing from them. But they were engaged in some form of idolatry, and sexual immorality, and they did partake in questionable eating habits.
So Peter thought it better to just address their immediate transgressions, and let them hear the rest from Moses, just as Jesus instructed them. It might be wise to consider that Peter never mentioned "Love your neighbor as yourself" either, but we know He believed, followed, and taught this Law of God.
3. When Paul said that Jesus destroyed the laws that separated Jews and Gentiles (Ephesians 2:15), the Sabbath would have been included, because the Sabbath was one of the main laws that separated Jews and Gentiles. When the early church allowed people to live like Gentiles (1st Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 2:14), they were saying, among other things, that it was not necessary to keep the Sabbath.
Here is what the Christ Himself said about the Sabbath and Gentiles.
Is. 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith
, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
I understand how popular it is for religious men to despise, pollute and to trash God's Holy Sabbaths. I'm not convinced from the Word's of the Bible, that He is anymore happy about that behavior now, than He was in the Law and Prophets.
4. We are never told that Paul or the other apostles rested or in any way avoided work on the Sabbath. If so, where?
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy
, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets
2 Tim. 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned
and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God
, and is profitable for doctrine
, for reproof
, for correction
, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I don't believe God ever intended for man to ignore, replace, amend, destroy or otherwise refuse His Word's in the Law and Prophets. If a man reads His Word's there, and believes in them as Paul believed and taught, then the Sabbath is just as important to God as not killing and hating your brother without a cause.
5. What did Paul tell the Romans about special days? See Romans 14:5.
Rom. 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Why should I care what one man, weak in the Faith esteems, or another man, weak in the faith esteems? Who was it that esteemeth one day over another?
EX. 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God
: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it
Are you not persuaded that it was the Christ, the creator God of the Bible, that esteemed the 7th day above the other six? If you are preaching He didn't esteem one day above the other, then are you not preaching against the Word's of the very Christ you claim to serve? Why should "EVERY MAN" be persuaded in their own mind Red?
Rom. 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Religious man can say anything, teach anything, live any lifestyle they want. But at the end of the day, it is God's Word that matters. Shall we not submit ourselves to it?
Both Jews and Gentiles were members of the church in Rome. Some of the Christians felt that they should consider certain days different than others; some considered every day alike. Paul did not seem to be troubled by either approach ~ what was most important in this situation is to avoid judging another believer (verse 4). One believer should not put stumbling blocks in another’s way (verse 13). If God does not require a particular behavior, it is wrong to teach it as required.
Well I would have to ask "Believer in what"? The God of the Bible? Or the religious traditions of the religion they were born into? Who is the God they will all give account to?
Who was it that sad "Thou shall not kill"? Who was it that said "Remember the Keep the Sabbath Day Holy"? I would argue that those who don't "Believe" these words, are not a "believer". And do you believe Paul would hide this one Commandment from the weak in faith, while keeping the Commandment Himself as was his custom? I would argue that placing a religious doctrine or commandment of men, would cause a weak brother to stumble. Not sharing God's Word with him. After all, who will Every Man account to?
In Judaism, special days were important. But Paul took a rather indifferent attitude to the concept of special days. That is because something significant had happened to change the basis of our relationship with God. The most significant event in history had happened: the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Because of that, the old covenant laws came to an end. Days are no longer a matter for judging behavior.
You don't have any scriptural support for this popular religious doctrine. In fact, Jesus Himself teaches just the opposite of your preaching here. He said "Don't think that I came to destroy the Law and Prophets". But you not only think that, you actually preach that.
1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I think you have been tricked as to what the old Covenant was that Jesus replaced with a New one. I would suggest you look at how the Christ Himself defines His New Covenant. He doesn't even come close to your description of it.
6. Paul warned the Galatians about observing days as a means of being accepted with God~and because some did he stood in doubt of them! Galatians 4:10.
No Red. The Galatians were not obeying God's Laws before they knew God. Every religion on the planet has high days and religious observances. I think it is a mistake to equate the Laws and Feasts of the Lord with ancient pagan observances. I know Paul didn't.
In closing~No New Testament verse specifically cites the Sabbath as obsolete. Instead, there are verses that say the entire old covenant law is obsolete as a means of inheriting eternal life. The law of Moses, including the Sabbath, is not required.
God commanded that Adam and Eve not eat of a certain tree in the garden. A religious voice, quoting some of God's own Words, came by and told them the requirement to obey God in this matter was not necessary, and that God knows His Laws only make you blind. And that the only way one can truly see, is if they would reject this Law and follow their own instructions.
I see that you have also been convinced, by other religious voices, to reject a Commandment of God. Paul never taught this and neither did Jesus, but we are warned of religious men, who come in Christ's Name, who teach that Jesus is truly the Messiah, but will deceive us about God and His Word.
Paul does not teach that God's Laws are obsolete. The Levitical Priesthood agreement He made with Israel on Mt. Sinai, with it's animals sacrifices and "Priesthood "Works of the Law" have become obsolete. but not God's Definition of sin. As Paul clearly points out.
1 cor. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God
? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, (Against God's Law) nor idolaters, (Against God's Law) nor adulterers(Against God's Law), nor effeminate,(Against God's Law) nor abusers of themselves with mankind,(Against God's Law)
10 Nor thieves,(Against God's Law) nor covetous,(Against God's Law) nor drunkards,(Against God's Law) nor revilers,(Against God's Law) nor extortioners,(Against God's Law) shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you
: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
All these are the Commandments of the God of the Bible that you just said were obsolete. Yet Paul is saying that those who practice such things will not enter heaven. No Salvation Red. I hope you might reconsider who you listen too while you still can. The Old Covenant that became obsolete is the agreement God made with Israel on the manner in which these Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of these laws are atoned for.
You are preaching, it seems, that Jesus came to remove or destroy these definitions of Sin. I don't see any support for your teaching on this. I fear this is another religious doctrine of religious man that were are warned about.
The Christ of the Bible says HIS Holy Sabbath is a sign between God and the "washed",the "sanctified" and the "justified". That is why Paul kept them, that is why the Disciples were gathered on Pentecost and that is why Jesus instructed the Disciples, who, in turn instructed the Gentiles, to hear the Scriptures read every Sabbath Day in Acts 15.
We are commanded to live by the Spirit, not by the law inscribed in stone. The Sabbath is repeatedly compared to things now obsolete: temple sacrifices, circumcision, holy bread. The Sabbath is not a basis for judging one another, and it should not be taught as a necessary addition to Christ.
Paul said not to let "man" judge me in respect to obedience to Him. Shall I not believe him?
Briefly consider two stumbling blocks that confuse some people. First, is the idea that the Sabbath is a “creation ordinance,” commanded ever since creation. To understand the error of this view, we must note these facts: Although Genesis says the seventh day was declared holy at creation, there is no biblical evidence it was a commanded rest until the time of Moses. The idea that the Sabbath is a creation ordinance in the same manner which it was given to Israel is a human invention.
What evidence do you have to support your preaching that God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments He gave to Abraham didn't include His Holy, Sanctified 7th Day Sabbath, His Passover, or His creation of clean and unclean animals?
Marriage and reproduction were commanded at creation and are, therefore “creation ordinances,” but Christians are free not to marry if they choose. Even if Sabbath observance had been commanded at creation, which it was not, that would not in itself prove that everyone must keep it today~especially in the manner in which it was given to Israel! Paul says we should not let others judge us regarding the Sabbath days, and we will not.
There isn't a commandment that requires marriage. There is a commandment to keep a certain day of the week Holy.
And the Sanctification of the 7th day did happen on creation. Just as the creation of clean and unclean animals happened at creation. Just because God chose not to define in writing what all these things mean until Abraham's Children were lost in Egypt doesn't mean He didn't share them with His Friends like Abel, and Noah and Abraham.
And there is a lot of evidence that He did. Certainly volumes more evidence than exists for the religion which preaches Jesus taught to reject the Biblical Sabbath over some New Lord's Day that was never even mentioned, prophesied, commanded, or even suggested.
I appreciate your zeal, but you say so many things that just are not true, if the Scriptures are the source we rely on.