Sunday Worship is not sanctioned in Scripture.

[GB]

GB,
I wasn’t going to post again in this thread, but I want to make a point about your claim and leave it at that.
You say (for example) that Abraham kept all God’s laws (Gen 26:5) but you fail to distinguish between categories of laws and their applicability.

I think there are two categories - some may divide them into more.
 1. Moral Laws, also known as Natural Law. These are laws that are intrinsically of a moral nature. They define what is morally right and wrong. They are applicable to all people in all times. Examples are murder and theft.
 2. Social Laws. These are laws that a society makes for the good of all in the society. They are not intrinsically moral. An example would be which side of the road to drive on. In the USA the law is to drive on the right. In the UK the law is to drive on the left. There is nothing intrinsically right or wrong about either but it is for the good of society that all in that society do the same.

Similarly there are laws about authority and hierarchy. In the USA a President is elected but does not take up the role until he is inaugurated. There are laws about how this is done and the powers he/she has.

In the UK we have a monarchy. When the Monarch dies (e.g. the current Queen) the successor (in this case Prince Charles) becomes king immediately. The formal coronation takes place many months later. Again there are laws about her/his powers.

Such social laws are applicable only to the people in a particular society at a particular time. They can be changed

I believe it is a moral law for individuals to worship God. But assembling, and when and how to worship God is a social law. There is nothing intrinsically moral about worshipping on a particular day. In the case of the Israelites God gave them instructions on when and how to assemble and worship him as part of their Covenant. And by their Covenant I mean the one made with them on Sinai with Moses as the Mediator. It was a Covenant they agreed to be bound by. Scripture tells us it was given to them in Ex 16:23 onwards. They were instructed to keep a Sabbath on the 7^th day of the week.

This was also given to them as a sign (token) of the Covenant. This is very important as failure to keep the sign of the Covenant meant they would be disassociating themselves from the Covenant. This is why God was so angry with Moses when he failed to circumcise his son (Ex 4:25); circumcision being the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant.

This social law was not given to the Israelites before Ex 16:23. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day.(Dt 5:2-3).

Nor was it given to gentiles.

Therefore we are not bound to it.

I appreciate the thought. And I have heard it before. According to Jesus there are two Greatest commandments in the Law. One is to Love God with all thy heart, and all the scriptures which hang or define this law, and the other is to love thy neighbor as thyself, and all the scriptures which hang, or define this law.

Social constructs change through time, but God's Laws do not. This is why religions of the land come and go, change their doctrines and lifestyle, depending on the ever changing social norms of the world.

The Sabbath was not then, nor has it ever been a Law dictating the gathering together in worship. This Sabbath doctrine, taught by many who come in Christ's name, does not reflect God's word regarding the reason for this Commandment. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's Time also created their version of God Sabbath, like making it unlawful for men to take a walk in fellowship and pick an apple to eat.

Both religious doctrines surrounding HIS Holy Sabbath are false doctrines.


As far as being bound to anything.

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Everyone is "bound" to something. You are free to choose what or who you are bound to. But We should be careful about this given all the warnings of Christ.

Rom. 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The Mainstream Preachers of Jesus time despised and Polluted HIS Holy Sabbaths. It didn't work out so well with them.

Thanks for the reply. I know I'm bucking centuries of religious traditions of men. just like Paul was.

I can't get past the fact that God created the Commandment "Thou shall not kill", a very serious but essential command for all to follow in any kind of a coherent society, for those in this society to prosper. Stealing, Lying, cheating, all essential commandments for any society to follow. God Placed His Holy Sabbath Commandment in the middle of these perfect, pertinent, and very important Commandments, necessary for any society to exist together and prosper. Why did He do this if your religious doctrine about His Sabbath is true?

Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Can you imagine how angry a man would be if Jesus came back tomorrow and he were gathered with those who did iniquity because let's face it, His Sabbath is a Commandment of God. Rejecting or polluting God's Sabbath is a Sin as defined in the Scriptures. Can you even imagine how angry this man would be if He came back and rejected those who He said He would reject, for the very reason He said He would reject them, and he finds out that this one Commandment, that was right there, that he KNEW was a Commandment, is one reason why he was gathered with those who do iniquity.

I can hear it now, "but Jesus, didn't we feed hundreds of random poor people in your name? Didn't we get divorced folks together, and get addicts off drugs and alcohol, all in your name? Didn't we build huge churches and pass out WWJD bracelets, and send missions all over the world, all in your name?

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

No, you might be right, maybe the Scriptures are not to be taken so seriously. But I can't risk the life of my children by ignoring so much evidence as to the importance of God's Commandments, including His Holy Sabbath.

You are free to take such a risk if you like. But not me. I'm fine with trusting the Lord of the Sabbath.

[RB]

And what shall I do with the Liberty I received when the truth of the Gospel set me free? Shall I hide it from you because you call me a heretic out of ignorance? Shall I hide the Light from others just to save myself from ridicule and name calling?

No Red, I will not.

Dealing with men like you is like dealing with a hardnose Democrat who talks about all we want is for the truth to come out, when most know that they are lying out their teeth and even THEY KNOW IT!

GB, you have no clue of the liberty that Paul taught NT Christians.

Galatians 5:1-4~"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

My liberty stands fast IN CHRIST, not in what I eat, drink, smoke, wear, go, live, drive, do's and not's, etc., etc. as it does in the vain worthless religion of Mystery Babylon, a religion that you are engulfed in, yet do not know it!

This is the LAST POST in this thread on this subject for me if you desire to continue this subject of MEATS, DRINKS, etc. let us do so in another thread. But, I will not allow you to post these lies and not be rebuked for doing so. I'm going to try hard to keep this short, but your long post makes it difficult to do so.

Gen. 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

If I were to follow your religious tactic, I would have to believe that I don't exist. I can not possibly be alive because right here God said "ALL Flesh" died.

So in the Red Religion, I could single out this verse to promote some obscure religion which teaches no one really exists. And when a man would question me, I would rush to this verse and post it and then call that man a Heretic because he don't believe God's own Words.

Really is this the best that you have to offer? You are not dealing with my seven-year-old granddaughter, but with older folks in the faith, that can see through your pitiful efforts of corrupting God's words, and pitiful it is, to avoid truth in favor of your own religious beliefs and the scriptures that clearly refute your corrupting the gospel of Jesus Christ by your add on's in order to be accepted by him, just as Peter withdrew from eating with the Gentiles when false brethren came down to them who like you teach against eating whatever they desire to eat that was created to be eaten by them who knows the truth and who receive it with thanksgiving unto God for giving to them bountifully out of his storehouse. 

ALL died that were not IN the ark of safety, not all without exception, but all who did not believe and all others flesh that Noah did not bring with him into the ark. Your pitiful efforts deserve to laugh at by school children, who are old enough to reason and think. But spiritual blindness takes that away from people and deservingly so for their rejection of God's word, on such clear scriptures as Genesis 9:3 that can be supported with NT scriptures such as Mark 7:18-23; Acts 10; Galatians 2; 1st Timothy 4:3-5; etc.

It's really a foolish position you take Red. The Holy Scriptures are meant to be read as a whole. (Live by Every Word of God) At least according to the Jesus of the Bible. When we do this, we find out that the flood really didn't destroy all flesh. So then this verse can not be understood unless you read the "rest of the story".

Oh, sir, do I ever understand this truth, that SCRIPTURES INTERPRET SCRIPTURES FOR US by comparing a little here, a little there, line upon line, precept upon percept, reading them distinctly and giving to them their proper sense that the Spirit intended them to have.

Doing this with Genesis 9:3, I clearly see that every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for us; even as the green herb God has given us all things, that IS edible and if so be that we desire. I understand Mark 7:18-23.....

Mark 7:18-23~"And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

There is NOT ONE THING from without that can enter into man and defile him spiritually IMPOSSIBLE! Yes, many things can harm us, if we drink or eat them, but not spiritually speaking. True Religion is NOT what we eat, drink, wear, live, go, etc. etc. Alcohol does not defile a man, drunkenness does! Food does not defile a man, overly eating does! MODERATION is the mark of a godly man~not so much abstinence, which could be a mark of Phariseeism at its core, or maybe not, (there are a few Rechabites~Jeremiah 35) but most of the time it is.

Your arguments are always about saving your own face, and preserving your own precious religion, regardless of what the Scriptures actually say, when you follow Jesus' and Paul's instructions regarding them.

Listen to the snail calling the worm slimy!

A poison dart frog will kill you if you eat it. It was created that way and labeled "unclean" for food. It is still unclean for food. There are also animals that will not kill you that God also deemed unclean for food. Now religious men might agree with God's judgment regarding the poison frog, that it was not created for human consumption. But what of the other animals He placed in the same classification?

As I said above:

Doing this with Genesis 9:3, I clearly see that every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for us; even as the green herb God has given us all things, that IS edible and if so be that we desire.

Some things are NOT edible and even if they are, there are some things I WOULD NOT EAT, only because it just seems gross TO ME, but maybe not to another person who is FREE to eat whatever he desires to eat IF it is edible.

Here is what happened to you Red. I will Paraphrase;

 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto Red, Yea, Did God's Commandment say, Ye shall eat animals which roam the earth?

 And Red said unto the serpent, We may eat of the animals of the earth :

 But of swine and shellfish, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

And the serpent said unto Red, Ye shall not surely die, you are already saved:

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (Reject His Commandment) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And when Red saw that swine and snails were good for food, and that it was pleasant to his eyes, and popular food of the nations around him, he took of the swine and slugs thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto all his friends; and they did eat.

Let me interpret this for you. The serpent is you, and you have said that Christians cannot go to Whole Food and buy Pork Chops and eat them (which we did Monday) for they will defile you spiritually and prove that you are a reprobate for breaking God's commandments. BUT, those with TRUE understanding from the Spirit of God know that not ONE THING from without can enter into man and defile him "spiritually", so I'm planning another trip very soon to get some more of those good pork chop, and maybe a couple of pounds of bacon to the booth, even though an SDA church sits right across the street saying that pork is the devil's meat and is good for nothing but for reprobates only.

The Pharisees, like you, rejected God's definition of clean and unclean, holy and unholy, and created their own religion with their own definition of these things. Like it was unlawful to take a walk on the Sabbath and pick a strawberry to eat, or it was unlawful to pick and apple of a tree and eat it unless you washed your hands a certain way. "and many such things they did". They promoted for doctrines "the commandments of men" not God. That is the very reason they didn't know God when He came to them in the Flesh. We know God cleansed Rehab and Cornelius, but where did He make the poison dart frog clean for food? Or where did He make the slug or swine clean for food?

I would dare say that the Pharisees would side with you over me any day of the week. Much of your many vain words have been answered in this thread, I have said enough~besides, ONCE a person answers you, for the most part, he has answered you~ for all of your posts are nothing more than vain repetitions saying the same thing over and over again. Again, you live in a very small area of the scriptures with very little spiritual understanding even within the small circumference of your dwelling place.

[GB]

 author=RB link=topic=74624.msg1055155005#msg1055155005 date=1579603713]

Dealing with men like you is like dealing with a hardnose Democrat who talks about all we want is for the truth to come out, when most know that they are lying out their teeth and even THEY KNOW IT!

It's not about food or drink. It's about doctrines and traditions of men VS. what the scriptures teach.

You preach that God's Commandments are "Beggarly Elements", and a "Yoke of Bondage". And you imply in your preaching that the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were following and teaching God's Commandments and that is why Jesus rejected them.

This is the foundation of your religion and I just want to make sure you understand that God's Commandments are not "Beggarly Elements", at least according to HIM, and that you are telling blatant lies when you preach Paul calls them Beggarly Elements, and you are also lying when you preach the Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time were promoting God's Laws and Commandments.

These doctrines of yours, designed by the father of lies, are created to make God look like an unjust God. The serpent convinced Eve of the exact same things.

GB, you have no clue of the liberty that Paul taught NT Christians. My liberty stands fast IN CHRIST, not in what I eat, drink, smoke, wear, go, live, drive, do's and not's, etc., etc. as it does in the vain worthless religion of Mystery Babylon, a religion that you are engulfed in, yet do not know it!

Jesus didn't walk in a "worthless religion". To you He did, and Constantine, and the Pope, yes, Jesus lived and walked in a "worthless religion". And then "freed us" from the path He Walked when He died.

But the Scriptures doesn't teach this. These are your religious doctrines, not the Christ's.

My liberty stands fast IN CHRIST, not in what I eat, drink, smoke, wear, go, live, drive, do's and not's, etc., etc. as it does in the vain worthless religion

Yes, I understand that religious men through out the Bible have rejected God's instructions and have created their own. You claim to "Stand Fast in Christ", yet you preach against, not only the path He walked, but also the Path He "foreordained that you should walk in them".

  If you were interested in truth, instead of just furthering your own catholic founded religion, you would have read a little further in Gal. 5 and posted Paul's own words regarding how one lives.

Gal. 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, (God's Law)  fornication,(God's Law) uncleanness,(God's Law) lasciviousness,(God's Law)

20 Idolatry,(God's Law) witchcraft,(God's Law) hatred,(God's Law) variance,(God's Law) emulations,(God's Law) wrath,(God's Law) strife,(God's Law) seditions,(God's Law) heresies,(God's Law)

21 Envyings,(God's Law) murders,(God's Law) drunkenness,(God's Law) revellings,(God's Law) and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I truly hope that someday, before it's too late, that you give the God of the Bible, that is my Father, and Jesus' Father, the Honor and Glory HE deserves. And stop furthering your insidious lies about Him. It's still not too lat.

"Today, if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts.

 

[Michael2012]

No, I didn't finally find a scripture that you can't ignore. I posted the details of His Covenant with Levi, but you didn't believe them. I'm glad you have found scriptures that you can not ignore.

Thank you, apologies accepted.

If you did not, I wonder why it took you so long to post them, since that was what I was asking for you to show at the very start of this issue. Nonetheless, whatever your reasons were, what is important is you've finally shown scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi.

However, in Hebrews 8, I don't find that this covenant of priesthood with Levi is that which is referred to as "first covenant". For it is clear in verses 9 and 10, that it is the covenant with Israel (not with Levites only) that is referred to.

I never said it was for Levites only. The entire Priesthood wasn't for the Levites, they were God's. God separated them from Israel for a purpose. And that purposes was entirely for the Children of Israel. How they received God's Laws, and how their sins were atoned for. This is the First Covenant He made with Israel, He gave them the Levitical Priesthood.

You refer to the "first covenant" in Hebrews 8 as the Levitical Priesthood. I want you to consider Hebrews 8:7 in the original Greek text. See and check if there really is "covenant" in there. I don't see it there. 

There is no doubt that in the covenant whose mediator was Moses, Israel received God's laws which includes the laws for the atonement of sin and the levitical priesthood, as you said, and all the commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgment, and curses that we read written were given to them. And that covenant with Israel is what Hebrews 8 tells us to have been replaced by a new covenant.

As for Heb.9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

Likewise here, I want you to consider Hebrews 9:1 in the original Greek text. See and check if there really is "covenant" in there. I don't see it there.

It is all about the Priesthood. From Hebrews 7 to the end of Heb. 10, there is no mention of any other Law. Not the 10 commandments, not the Holy Days, not the 2 Greatest commandments. Every verse in these 4 chapters in Hebrews centers on the Levitical Priesthood which had become obsolete, replaced by a New and Better ministry, made with better promises. No more human Priests to administer God's Laws, He will administer them Himself. No more Levite Priests to take a sacrifice to, the Christ will sprinkle HIS own Blood on the alter.

Yes, perhaps Hebrews 7-10 speaks about the priesthood more than anything else, but it does not take away the truth that it speaks of a covenant which was replaced by a new one. And this covenant that was replaced is clearly identified as referring to that covenant God made with the children of Israel, not that with Levi, though I have to say that the levitical priesthood is part of the covenant that was replaced.

As it is written;

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

While it is true that the Levitical priesthood was changed, the covenant spoken here by the inspired writer of Hebrews which have been replaced by a new covenant is the covenant God made with Israel in the day that God led them out of the land of Egypt.

I know we are both bucking centuries of religious traditions so I understand how difficult it is to understand that we could actually believe things about the Bible which are not true. It was a hard pill for me, as it was for Nicodemus, and it will also be a hard pill for you.

It isn't at all difficult for me to understand that we could actually have an understanding of scriptures which later turns out to be false. For I acknowledge that we are not infallible. Scriptural truth is never hard for me to accept and believe GB, when God shows and reveals it to me. Besides, I don't have any religious traditions to promote, a thing which you continuously refuse to believe me of. So, if you just could trust me on that, perhaps you can stop believing that. I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe in scriptures, that is why I believe what God says in scriptures and not what others say. You had shown me scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi, so I believed there is, but not because you say there is. I gave you credit and my gratitude for showing such scriptures, and that's all.
 

Bear with me here for just one minute.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So this is the Covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That Isaacs seed, children, or in other words, the Children of Israel, will be given all the countries, blessed and so on, because Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments.

It is inconclusive, with the scriptures you quoted, that such is the covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


That is scriptures which speak of God's command and promise to Abram. It's something unconditional, if you'll notice. This may well be considered a covenant between God and Abram. I consider it God's covenant of promise to Abraham ~ an oath sworn by God unto Abraham.

In Gen. 17 God made a covenant with Abram. The covenant of circumcision. A covenant not outside of God's covenant of promise, but within. It was at this time that God changed the name of Abram to Abraham. In lieu of quoting the entire Gen. 17, please just go to your Bible and read the chapter. Therein also is where you can read God saying to Abraham, "Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him."

God's promise to Abraham of a son by Sarah came to pass, Isaac was born (Gen.21:3). But not yet that part concerning establishing His covenant with Isaac and his seed, that is, Jacob (Israel).

Genesis 26:2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

This may well be considered as a covenant between God and Isaac. What is clear, what this is about is, and I quote "I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father". It pertains to God's performance of His promise to Abraham in Genesis 12, which unfolds to this promise to Abraham in Genesis 17:19 regarding Isaac, and I quote "I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him." 

Now, Gen. 26:5 says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." This statement, more than anything else, means that Abraham kept his part of the covenant he had with God, and which because of that, God performs the oath which He swore unto Abraham.

One issue before us concerning this, are the charge, commandments, statutes, and laws God gave to Abraham which he obeyed. You refer to them as the same with those which God gave to the children of Israel when He made a covenant with them when He led them out of Egypt at Sinai whose mediator was Moses, excluding the Levitical priesthood. But I see that position as only your opinion. If you can show scriptures that says that, will I not believe scriptures? So, until then, the issue and question remains, as to what are these that Abraham obeyed so that God performs His oath to Abraham. My view on that is that these are what can be read in scriptures that speaks of the things that Abraham was commanded by God to do, beginning at the time of the calling of Abraham (Genesis 12) until his death (Genesis 25). I will not here quote them. You can just go to your Bible and read Genesis 12-25, and see what they are.

Concerning Jacob, here's what we can find in scriptures.

Gen. 35:9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. 10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. 11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.

This may well be considered a covenant between God and Jacob. It is not really different from that between God and Isaac, in that, it is within and pertaining to God's performance of His promise to Abraham in Genesis 12. 

Now when the Children of Israel cried out to God because of bondage. (Deception, slave to sin, etc.,) What was the first thing God said?

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

So God gave the Children of Israel HIS Statutes, HIS Commandments and HIS Laws, just as He did to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. This was the Covenant of Abraham given to the Children of Israel.

Of course, your conclusion there is your own. With reference to the above quoted scriptures, what can be learned from them is not what you have concluded, but that God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.  What this covenant refers to is what I have shown in the above segment. It is not about the giving of God's statutes, commandments and laws. It is about what can be read in Gen. 17 (covenant with Abraham), 26 (covenant with Isaac), 35 (covenant with Jacob).

Now, regarding the covenant that God made with the children of Israel.

Exodus 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.


And so God took them out of Egypt just as He had said. When the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, this is what happened:

Exodus 19:1 In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. 2 For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount. 3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

On and about the third day thereafter, God gave them His ten commandments engraved in stone (Exo.20). Not only were that which God gave to them, but God gave them, through Moses, many other commandments, statutes, ordinances, regulations, and judgments. In Exo. 24:3-4, we read, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.".

Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

But in Ex. 32, after they received the 10 commandments, after they received the Passover and God's Holy Sabbath, Israel rebelled and transgressed God's Laws.

Ex. 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
 
And God's wrath was kindled against them.

Ex. 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

So God chose the tribe of Levi, and made a covenant with him on behalf of the Children of Israel. I already posted the scriptures Michael, they detail the compact God made with Levi for the administration of God's Laws, and for the atonement of the sins of the Children of Israel.

Exodus 32:7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 9 And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Yes, the children of Israel had broken the covenant with God. We see the wrath of God in verse 10 against all of them who had corrupted themselves, who have turned aside quickly out of the way which God commanded them. God offered to destroy all the rebellious Israelites that day and make of Moses a great nation. This offer constituted a test to Moses. Moses passed the test. He did not forsake his people, but instead urged God to have mercy on them. And God did not destroy them that day. And what happened next is what is written in Exo. 32:26-28, about three thousand men died that day. It is clear, when one reads verse 29-30, that not all who sinned were killed that day. Only about 3,000 of the 600,000 men died.

You said "God chose the tribe of Levi, and made a covenant with him on behalf of the Children of Israel." While it is true that God chose the Levites to take the office of priesthood, I don't see the matter of God making a covenant with Levi on behalf of the children of Israel. Unless and until you show me scriptures that speaks of such, that would just be to me, your own opinion. 

This is what happened after they broke the covenant. Moses had obtained God's promise to renew the covenant bond with Israel. In Exodus 34, God directed him to restore the covenant revelation, by having the Ten Commandments re-inscribed on two new stone tablets. You see, Israel's initial relationship with God at Sinai, which was characterized by the ten commandments, and the simple Covenant Code ~ (Exod. 21-31), is now represented by the ten commandments, other statutes, ordinances, judgments, and the complex and restrictive laws of the Code of the Priests ~ (Exod. 21-31, 34-Lev. 16).
 

This Levitical Priesthood is the Law of Moses. It is the First Covenant God made with the Children of Israel. God's definition of clean and unclean, Holy and unholy, good and evil already existed for Abraham. The Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" 430 years after him because of transgressions of these laws. And was ADDED "till the Seed should come". Paul says so in Gal. 3:19.

While the Levitical Priesthood is part of the Law of Moses, it is not all of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses or Mosaic Law or simply the Law, are the ten commandments engraved in stone, and the complex and restrictive laws of the levitical priesthood code (Exod. 21-31, 34-Lev. 16). And this Levitical priesthood is not the first covenant God made with the children of Israel. See my discussion in the segment above regarding the covenant God made with the children of Israel. The Levitical priesthood code (Exod. 35-Lev.16) was given as part of the restored covenant.

Regarding Gal. 3:19, I have already explained my take on that in one of my past posts, so I will not here make a comment as this post really is now very long. 

This Priesthood was not part of the Laws, Commandments and Statutes Abraham had, He was justified "apart" from this Law.

Yes.

This Priesthood IS the Old Covenant Michael. At least according to the Bible.

It is part of the Old covenant GB, but is not all the whole Old Covenant. At least, in my reading of the Bible.

[RB]

It's not about food or drink. It's about doctrines and traditions of men VS. what the scriptures teach.

You preach that God's Commandments are "Beggarly Elements", and a "Yoke of Bondage". And you imply in your preaching that the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were following and teaching God's Commandments and that is why Jesus rejected them.

This is the foundation of your religion and I just want to make sure you understand that God's Commandments are not "Beggarly Elements", at least according to HIM, and that you are telling blatant lies when you preach Paul calls them Beggarly Elements, and you are also lying when you preach the Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time were promoting God's Laws and Commandments.

These doctrines of yours, designed by the father of lies, are created to make God look like an unjust God. The serpent convinced Eve of the exact same things.

Jesus didn't walk in a "worthless religion". To you He did, and Constantine, and the Pope, yes, Jesus lived and walked in a "worthless religion". And then "freed us" from the path He Walked when He died.

But the Scriptures doesn't teach this. These are your religious doctrines, not the Christ's.

Yes, I understand that religious men through out the Bible have rejected God's instructions and have created their own. You claim to "Stand Fast in Christ", yet you preach against, not only the path He walked, but also the Path He "foreordained that you should walk in them".

Refuse to comment on your same old repeated Ad Hominem Fallacies.

If you were interested in truth, instead of just furthering your own catholic founded religion, you would have read a little further in Gal. 5 and posted Paul's own words regarding how one lives.

Gal. 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, (God's Law)  fornication,(God's Law) uncleanness,(God's Law) lasciviousness,(God's Law)

20 Idolatry,(God's Law) witchcraft,(God's Law) hatred,(God's Law) variance,(God's Law) emulations,(God's Law) wrath,(God's Law) strife,(God's Law) seditions,(God's Law) heresies,(God's Law)

21 Envyings,(God's Law) murders,(God's Law) drunkenness,(God's Law) revellings,(God's Law) and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

No problem, but this is not what was under discussion, but another Strawman fallacy that you are known for!

When you do such things, are you are showing is just how defenseless and helpless you are against those who just expose your religion as another gospel under the curse of Galatians chapter one. Sir, I have no problem whatsoever if you refuse to eat pepperoni Pizza, or pork sausage with your eggs for breakfast~that, is any person's right if his conscience does not believe he/she should not~ but DO NOT judge godly saints who like fried pork chops and or, meat lovers pizza with a cold beer in moderation trying to use the word of God in doing so~when you and others do so, then we have a serious problem with people like you....but more so does the God of heaven.   

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155016#msg1055155016 date=1579621340]

If you did not, I wonder why it took you so long to post them, since that was what I was asking for you to show at the very start of this issue. Nonetheless, whatever your reasons were, what is important is you've finally shown scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi.

Only because I didn't know the extent of your ignorance about covenants, so I posted where the compact was made at first. So God did make a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Israelites.

I never said it was for Levites only. The entire Priesthood wasn't for the Levites, they were God's. God separated them from Israel for a purpose. And that purposes was entirely for the Children of Israel. How they received God's Laws, and how their sins were atoned for. This is the First Covenant He made with Israel, He gave them the Levitical Priesthood.

You refer to the "first covenant" in Hebrews 8 as the Levitical Priesthood. I want you to consider Hebrews 8:7 in the original Greek text. See and check if there really is "covenant" in there. I don't see it there. 

But I know, Moses knew, Jesus knew, and the Author of Hebrews  knew, that God made a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel. This Covenant had to do with the Administration of God's Laws, and also how transgression of God's Laws were atoned for.

You are refusing to accept the Biblical fact that God's Covenant with Abraham included God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, which existed years before Mt. Sinai.

Paul says that because of Transgressions, God ADDED a Law, until the Seed should come. I would ask, "transgressions of what"? 

The answer would be, "Transgression of God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments" which existed before this time. They were part of the Covenant God made with Abraham. God remembered His Covenant with Abraham, and  "ADDED" a Priesthood Law. This Priesthood Law was the first covenant God made with Israel.

Religious men, those who do not recognize that God Created a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel on Mt. Sinai, teach that God created His Whole Law structure at Mt. Sinai. They falsely teach that what God "ADDED" was HIS Commandments, Statutes, and Laws as well as the Levitical Priesthood.

And that the entire Law structure became obsolete, not just the manner in which HIS Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of His Laws were atoned for, as the Christ promised.

There is no doubt that in the covenant whose mediator was Moses, Israel received God's laws which includes the laws for the atonement of sin and the Levitical priesthood, as you said, and all the commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgment, and curses that we read written were given to them. And that covenant with Israel is what Hebrews 8 tells us to have been replaced by a new covenant.

No, Hebrews 8 is speaking exclusively to the Priesthood. So is Hebrews 7, and 9 and 10.

In fact there is no other "LAW" mentioned in all 4 chapters. You can try and find one if you like, but I don't think you will. You would think this would mean something, and it did for me, because I didn't have an existing religion to preserve and promote. Not so for many religious men.

Likewise here, I want you to consider Hebrews 9:1 in the original Greek text. See and check if there really is "covenant" in there. I don't see it there.

I thought you would have learned by now that just because God didn't have the word "covenant" in the text doesn't mean God didn't make a covenant. Numbers is clear about the compact God made with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel. Even though He didn't use the "word" until Malachi.

Yes, perhaps Hebrews 7-10 speaks about the priesthood more than anything else, but it does not take away the truth that it speaks of a covenant which was replaced by a new one. And this covenant that was replaced is clearly identified as referring to that covenant God made with the children of Israel, not that with Levi, though I have to say that the levitical priesthood is part of the covenant that was replaced.

It's not that Heb. 7-10 speak to the Levitical Priesthood "more than anything else", it doesn't speak to any thing else. And it aligns perfectly with the Promises in Jer. 31. No more Levite Priests for the administration of God's Laws, and no more Levite Priests needed to perform "works of the law" for the atonement of transgressions of God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments that God gave to Abraham.

A New Covenant, where Levites are no longer, by LAW, commanded to do these things, the Christ Himself, takes over these duties as promised. In fact, there is nowhere in the Promise the Christ made, and HIS Definition of the New Covenant, nor in Hebrews 7- 10, where it is written, implied, or otherwise suggested that God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments were made void when Jesus became the High Priest. According to the text, the only Law that was changed, was the Law that required only the Levite could become a High Priest.

It isn't at all difficult for me to understand that we could actually have an understanding of scriptures which later turns out to be false. For I acknowledge that we are not infallible. Scriptural truth is never hard for me to accept and believe GB, when God shows and reveals it to me. Besides, I don't have any religious traditions to promote, a thing which you continuously refuse to believe me of. So, if you just could trust me on that, perhaps you can stop believing that. I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe in scriptures, that is why I believe what God says in scriptures and not what others say. You had shown me scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi, so I believed there is, but not because you say there is. I gave you credit and my gratitude for showing such scriptures, and that's all.

I don't want any credit, and never asked for any. What I KNOW is that there is a religion, followed by the masses, which doesn't teach the truth about God's Word. One such falsehood is that the Old Covenant that the Christ promised to change was God's entire Law structure. This isn't true.

Michael, the Christ gave you and I both a detailed description of HIS NEW Covenant in which He Promised to write HIS LAWS on our hearts, not make them obsolete as you and mainstream preachers who come in Christ's name teach.

I think you should let God's Word direct your doctrines, that's the whole point of my being here. Why not also consider that you may be wrong about the Christ's New Covenant, since your description and HIS New Covenant, and His Description of HIS new Covenant, are almost opposite.

It is inconclusive, with the scriptures you quoted, that such is the covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

But when God says "I will write MY Laws on your hearts, you preach that this really means "I will make MY Laws obsolete".

And when God says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

You preach that this doesn't really mean Abraham kept God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws.

I don't believe God's Word is inconclusive at all, I think it is man's religion that is inconclusive.

You said "God chose the tribe of Levi, and made a covenant with him on behalf of the Children of Israel." While it is true that God chose the Levites to take the office of priesthood, I don't see the matter of God making a covenant with Levi on behalf of the children of Israel. Unless and until you show me scriptures that speaks of such, that would just be to me, your own opinion.

EX. 26:20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

So here we are again. You are correcting me, preaching to me and making statements that what I post is my own opinion. Yet, here once again, God's Word Proves your religious beliefs wrong. At what point will you accept the possibility that maybe Jesus actually described HIS NEW Covenant correctly, and it is your religion which teaches incorrectly.

While the Levitical Priesthood is part of the Law of Moses, it is not all of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses or Mosaic Law or simply the Law, are the ten commandments engraved in stone, the and the complex and restrictive laws of the levitical priesthood code [Exod. 34—Lev. 16].

But in the Promise the Christ gave of HIS New Covenant, and HIS definition of the HIS NEW Covenant, only the manner in which God's Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgressions of those Laws are atoned for, is mentioned. No other change was ever mentioned in the entire Bible. Every other change, like the ten commandments becoming obsolete, or God's creation of Holy and Unholy becomes obsolete, all these are simply religious doctrines of the land that you have been convinced of. Just as you were convinced that God never made a covenant with Levi, and also just like you were convinced that God didn't make this covenant "On Israel's behalf.

And this Levitical priesthood is not the first covenant God made with the children of Israel. See my discussion in the segment above regarding the covenant God made with the children of Israel. The Levitical priesthood code was given as part of the restored covenant.

No, the Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to God's Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, "Till the Seed should come". God passed HIS Covenant with Abraham onto his son and grandson, and then on to their children. Only this time HE "ADDED" a Priesthood. This is the "first Covenant" He actually made specifically with and on behalf of the Children of Israel.

Regarding Gal. 3:19, I have already explained my take on that in one of my past posts, so I will not here make a comment as this post really is now very long. 

Yes.

It is part of the Old covenant GB, but is not all the whole Old Covenant. At least, in my reading of the Bible.

I know this is a popular teaching in the religions of the land, but you must admit, The Christ is not on the same page as you on this subject.

I really think you should trust the Christ and His Definition of His New Covenant. I know few do, and you will be going against modern religious doctrines and traditions, religious men will make fun of you. But shouldn't we trust Him and His Word's over religious men? And you will have to admit that the Christ did think it worthy to mention in HIS Promise of a New Covenant, that HIS LAWS would become obsolete as you and "many who come in Christ's name" preach.

I find it hard to believe that the Christ forgot to tell me in His Promise of a New Covenant, that HE was going to make HIS LAWS, that HE walked in, and promised to write on my heart, obsolete.

But as I said, religious traditions of men are a powerful deception all through the Bible, I think a man would be foolish to think they no longer are.

[GB]

but DO NOT judge godly saints who like fried pork chops and or, meat lovers pizza with a cold beer in moderation trying to use the word of God in doing so~when you and others do so, then we have a serious problem with people like you....but more so does the God of heaven.   

I am only pointing out your religious preaching that is contrary to the Word's of the Bible. And it's not my fault that you have so many. I can understand why you don't want to talk about much of your preaching.

I can find nowhere in the Bible where "Godly Saints" openly and purposely rejected a Commandment of God. I see where self proclaimed children of God, who were transgressing God's Commandments by their own religious traditions, lied about God's Word. But there is no one who was ever called "Faithful" that blatantly told lies about God. I have no reason that this has changed just because you say so.

fortunately there is no commandment from God forbidding a couple of cold beers on a hot day. However, God did create animals that are unclean, and He did say not to eat them.

I don't care what you do Red, this is about what scriptures teach, I am not judging you on how boastful you are about rejecting God's Commandments. But when you preach outright lies like, "Paul calls God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements", then I am bound to say something.

[Michael2012]

fortunately there is no commandment from God forbidding a couple of cold beers on a hot day. However, God did create animals that are unclean, and He did say not to eat them.

   

What I do know and learned from scriptures (not from religious traditions and doctrines of men) at present is this "the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."; and "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Simply put, meat and drink or anything that enters the man through the mouth, does not make the man unclean, for such things has nothing to do with the kingdom of God.

For what purpose does OT scriptures say that God had some animals clean and some unclean?

What does scriptures say why in the OT God prohibited the eating of animals which are said to be unclean?

Just asking.

And thinking out loud,

God, before the fall told Adam "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food."? Except for the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was there an issue if there were poisonous herb that yields seed and poisonous fruit trees then? Were there clean and unclean animals back then?

After the fall, and after the great flood, had God not told Noah "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."? Was there an issue if there were poisonous living things back then? If there were, why aren't there scriptures that identifies these poisonous living things  and prohibits the eating thereof?

[RB]

I am only pointing out your religious preaching that is contrary to the Word's of the Bible. And it's not my fault that you have so many. I can understand why you don't want to talk about much of your preaching.

I can find nowhere in the Bible where "Godly Saints" openly and purposely rejected a Commandment of God. I see where self proclaimed children of God, who were transgressing God's Commandments by their own religious traditions, lied about God's Word. But there is no one who was ever called "Faithful" that blatantly told lies about God. I have no reason that this has changed just because you say so.

fortunately there is no commandment from God forbidding a couple of cold beers on a hot day. However, God did create animals that are unclean, and He did say not to eat them.

I don't care what you do Red, this is about what scriptures teach, I am not judging you on how boastful you are about rejecting God's Commandments. But when you preach outright lies like, "Paul calls God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements", then I am bound to say something.

I'm FINISHED with you on this subject~for it is Impossible to keep you from your same old repeated Ad Hominem Fallacies.

Michael, the Lord willing I will start a new thread on the two main covenant in the word of God, and there are ONLY two. GB, said to you:

Only because I didn't know the extent of your ignorance about covenants

Let us see who is truly ignorant concerning the first (old) and second (new) covenant. You guys can keep this useless fight going if you so desire to do so, but enough is enough at some point and I have reached that point. If Paul was here he would say to you (GB) in the Hebrew tongue: Lehitra’ot לְהִתְרָאוֹת.

One more thing:

fortunately there is no commandment from God forbidding a couple of cold beers on a hot day.

or a cold day!

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155044#msg1055155044 date=1579681523]
   

What I do know and learned from scriptures (not from religious traditions and doctrines of men) at present is this "the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."; and "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Simply put, meat and drink or anything that enters the man through the mouth, does not make the man unclean, for such things has nothing to do with the kingdom of God.

I agree, there isn't anything outside of our mind that can make us reject, rebel against or transgress God's Commandments. Rebellion, disobedience, dishonor, malice, pride, iniquity, all comes from within.

For what purpose does OT scriptures say that God had some animals clean and some unclean?

What does scriptures say why in the OT God prohibited the eating of animals which are said to be unclean?

Just asking.

And thinking out loud,

Well let's let the Christ answer your question then.

Lev. 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Now these are the scriptures the Christ gave us. But the religious tradition of the land is to reject these Word's out right.

I have chosen to abide by HIS word's and to "Take Heed" as He warned, of the teaching that comes from the "MANY" who come in HIS NAME.

God, before the fall told Adam "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food."? Except for the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was there an issue if there were poisonous herb that yields seed and poisonous fruit trees then? Were there clean and unclean animals back then?

If this verse was the only verse in the entire Bible, then you may have a point. But there are other verses which more definitely define God's Creation as to what was created for food and what was created for something else. I believe God would have informed Adam just as HE did Noah on the "Difference between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten". The difference obviously existed.

After the fall, and after the great flood, had God not told Noah "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."? Was there an issue if there were poisonous living things back then? If there were, why aren't there scriptures that identifies these poisonous living things  and prohibits the eating thereof?

You are making a mistake when you only reference those verses which can be used to promote your own religious lifestyle.

Gen. 8:18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

This was after the flood. What does it matter to us that God chose not to define His Commandments until after Genesis. It doesn't mean they didn't exist, or that He didn't share them with His People.

This is why Jesus said "Man shall live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".

[GB]

I'm FINISHED with you on this subject~for it is Impossible to keep you from your same old repeated Ad Hominem Fallacies.

How can you be finished on a subject you refuse to address? Paul didn't call God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" anywhere in the entire Bible, yet this is a foundation of your religion.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump Red. You are wrong on this, why would you believe you are right on other things?

Come on Red, be a Nichodemus.

And yes, a cold day as well.



 

[Michael2012]

If you did not, I wonder why it took you so long to post them, since that was what I was asking for you to show at the very start of this issue. Nonetheless, whatever your reasons were, what is important is you've finally shown scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi.

Only because I didn't know the extent of your ignorance about covenants, so I posted where the compact was made at first. So God did make a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Israelites.

As I said, whatever your reasons were, what is important is you've finally shown scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi.

I accept the truth that God had a covenant with Levi, but not the opinion that it was on behalf of all the Israelites, if by that you mean that in effect it is a covenant between God and all the children of Israel, and refers to it as the covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator is Moses. Unless and until you can show scriptures that says so, that would remain to be your opinion. Besides even, in the old covenant priesthood, all priests were to be Levites, but not all Levites were priests. You see, I listen and believe what scriptures say (God's voice), not what others (other voices) say.

You refer to the "first covenant" in Hebrews 8 as the Levitical Priesthood. I want you to consider Hebrews 8:7 in the original Greek text. See and check if there really is "covenant" in there. I don't see it there.

But I know, Moses knew, Jesus knew, and the Author of Hebrews  knew, that God made a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel. This Covenant had to do with the Administration of God's Laws, and also how transgression of God's Laws were atoned for.

Have you checked on the original Greek text of Hebrews 8:7? Was there a "covenant" there?

You are refusing to accept the Biblical fact that God's Covenant with Abraham included God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, which existed years before Mt. Sinai.

What I am refusing to accept is your insistence of your opinion that in God's covenant with Abraham, the Laws, Statutes, and Commandments of God to him were exactly the same and are no different from the Laws, Statutes, and Commandments found in the covenant between God and the children of Israel at the time of the exodus from Egypt.

Paul says that because of Transgressions, God ADDED a Law, until the Seed should come. I would ask, "transgressions of what"? 

The answer would be, "Transgression of God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments" which existed before this time. They were part of the Covenant God made with Abraham. God remembered His Covenant with Abraham, and  "ADDED" a Priesthood Law. This Priesthood Law was the first covenant God made with Israel.

You just insist in saying all that and keep repeating saying all that. The error in all of that had already been repeatedly pointed out, besides it, only being your opinion. Repeating all that does not remove the error GB nor does it make it the truth. You have to do better than that.

Religious men, those who do not recognize that God Created a Covenant with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel on Mt. Sinai, teach that God created His Whole Law structure at Mt. Sinai. They falsely teach that what God "ADDED" was HIS Commandments, Statutes, and Laws as well as the Levitical Priesthood.

All but the same repeated opinion that was repeatedly been shown erroneous. Nothing new that makes it otherwise.

If you knew what the covenant of God with Abraham is, what the covenant of God with Isaac is, what the covenant of God with Jacob (Israel) is, you might not have such erroneous opinion. Haven't you read in my other post what these covenants are? I have shown you scriptures where you can read these covenants.   

And that the entire Law structure became obsolete, not just the manner in which HIS Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgression of His Laws were atoned for, as the Christ promised.

Yes scriptures, in Hebrews 8 does tell us that there is now a new covenant, that replaced the old covenant of God with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses. It was in this old covenant that God gave them a written code (book of the law) which consists of commandments, statutes, ordinances, regulations, judgments, and commands regarding a formal priesthood. Do you want me to show you scriptures that speaks of the "book of the Law"? All these were done away with and were replaced under a new covenant whose mediator is Jesus Christ.

There is no doubt that in the covenant whose mediator was Moses, Israel received God's laws which includes the laws for the atonement of sin and the Levitical priesthood, as you said, and all the commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgment, and curses that we read written were given to them. And that covenant with Israel is what Hebrews 8 tells us to have been replaced by a new covenant.

No, Hebrews 8 is speaking exclusively to the Priesthood. So is Hebrews 7, and 9 and 10.

In fact there is no other "LAW" mentioned in all 4 chapters. You can try and find one if you like, but I don't think you will. You would think this would mean something, and it did for me, because I didn't have an existing religion to preserve and promote. Not so for many religious men.

If, in your view, it is only the priesthood, despite the clear statements found in Hebrews 8 that says the new covenant is a covenant with the house of Israel (not only the house of Levi, but also with the house of all the tribes of Israel), and that says "they shall be to me a people", wherein the "they" refers not only to those of the house of Levi, but to all of the house of Israel, then so be it with you.

And why do just keep repeating saying the same things? Have I not addressed them repeatedly as well? What you ought to do is refute what I said regarding that and not just keep repeating the same things over and over. That will in no way make what you say to be the truth.

You may well be the only one who don't have an existing religion to preserve and promote. I have. It's what one finds in the Bible, the faith of Jesus Christ. It existed some 2000 years ago. It is what you are seeking to understand. 

I thought you would have learned by now that just because God didn't have the word "covenant" in the text doesn't mean God didn't make a covenant. Numbers is clear about the compact God made with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel. Even though He didn't use the "word" until Malachi.

The fact that the word "covenant" in the original Greek text of Hebrews 8:7 and Hebrews 9:1, means that there is no such thing as "first covenant" spoken of there. As such, we must not really speak of a "first covenant" referencing Hebrews 8:7 or Hebrews 9:1, and speak of it as referring to this or that, for there is none to speak about in the first place. That is simply the point, if one were to be faithful to the scriptures.

Yes, perhaps Hebrews 7-10 speaks about the priesthood more than anything else, but it does not take away the truth that it speaks of a covenant which was replaced by a new one. And this covenant that was replaced is clearly identified as referring to that covenant God made with the children of Israel, not that with Levi, though I have to say that the levitical priesthood is part of the covenant that was replaced.

It's not that Heb. 7-10 speak to the Levitical Priesthood "more than anything else", it doesn't speak to any thing else. And it aligns perfectly with the Promises in Jer. 31. No more Levite Priests for the administration of God's Laws, and no more Levite Priests needed to perform "works of the law" for the atonement of transgressions of God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments that God gave to Abraham.

If that's your view, so be it with you. I don't view it the way you do. And I have told you the reason why not. For to me, I see the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant, is that covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses and not the covenant of God with Levi spoken of in Malachi 2.

Yes, in the new covenant, no more Levite Priests for the administration of God's Laws, and no more Levite Priests needed for the atonement of sin. There is only Jesus Christ.

A New Covenant, where Levites are no longer, by LAW, commanded to do these things, the Christ Himself, takes over these duties as promised. In fact, there is nowhere in the Promise the Christ made, and HIS Definition of the New Covenant, nor in Hebrews 7- 10, where it is written, implied, or otherwise suggested that God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments were made void when Jesus became the High Priest. According to the text, the only Law that was changed, was the Law that required only the Levite could become a High Priest.

You believe and teach that only the Levitical priesthood regulation, law and structure, was abolished, and not the entire law written in the book of the law. You also believe and teach that God's laws, statutes and commandments that He gave to the children of Israel that Moses had written in book of the law are still in effect and are the same laws, statutes and commandments given by God to Abraham.

With all honesty then, can you give your answer to these simple questions:

1. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses still are in effect and should be kept and observed? Do you keep and observe them?

examples:
 
a). He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
b). He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
c). He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
d). He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
e). Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
f). The man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

2. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses, the ones given to and kept and observed by Abraham?

3. Can you give some of the statutes that God gave to Abraham which He gave also to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses?

It isn't at all difficult for me to understand that we could actually have an understanding of scriptures which later turns out to be false. For I acknowledge that we are not infallible. Scriptural truth is never hard for me to accept and believe GB, when God shows and reveals it to me. Besides, I don't have any religious traditions to promote, a thing which you continuously refuse to believe me of. So, if you just could trust me on that, perhaps you can stop believing that. I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe in scriptures, that is why I believe what God says in scriptures and not what others say. You had shown me scriptures that speaks of a covenant with Levi, so I believed there is, but not because you say there is. I gave you credit and my gratitude for showing such scriptures, and that's all.

I don't want any credit, and never asked for any. What I KNOW is that there is a religion, followed by the masses, which doesn't teach the truth about God's Word. One such falsehood is that the Old Covenant that the Christ promised to change was God's entire Law structure. This isn't true.

Good to hear.

I respect your view as to what was replaced by the new covenant whose mediator is Jesus Christ. But that does not mean by that that your view is not false. And so we have our disagreement on this. And that is why, in this thread, I am not just repeating saying that your view is false, but am showing you, with the help of scriptures, why I say it's false. And that you ought to likewise do, until the truth finally will come out, and not just keep repeating stating the same view over and over again. It's useless and fruitless.

Michael, the Christ gave you and I both a detailed description of HIS NEW Covenant in which He Promised to write HIS LAWS on our hearts, not make them obsolete as you and mainstream preachers who come in Christ's name teach.

To be more accurate, it's not Christ, but "YHVH" or "YHWH" who gave the promise of a new covenant with the house of Israel in Jer.31:31.

You get my view all wrong GB. What God made obsolete was the covenant that He made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses. Necessarily so, all that is provided for in the covenant and everything that constitutes it was made obsolete. Not by reason that God did not keep His part (for He is faithful), but to replace it with a new covenant which is much better than the former. Now, this is what you should set your eyes and heart on and not on what had been made to vanish away. You can start by asking yourself, what is this new covenant? What are the new covenant laws that God gave and wrote in the heart and mind of His people? How are sins forgiven in the new covenant? And so on...

I think you should let God's Word direct your doctrines, that's the whole point of my being here. Why not also consider that you may be wrong about the Christ's New Covenant, since your description and HIS New Covenant, and His Description of HIS new Covenant, are almost opposite.

I say the same to you GB.

[Michael2012]

It is inconclusive, with the scriptures you quoted, that such is the covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

But when God says "I will write MY Laws on your hearts, you preach that this really means "I will make MY Laws obsolete".

No GB. I am not in the mind of changing God's words.

When God said "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts", I will preach exactly just what it says. But you seem to jump to the conclusion, when you read this, about what law God put in the mind and heart. You conclude that they are the exact same law God gave to Abraham, even while you admittedly cannot really point to scriptures what this law is. As for me, as the law was known by the Israelites through Moses, I go to Jesus Christ who is the mediator of the new covenant, to learn about it. Even still, there is the Holy Spirit who dwells in me, who will reveal them to me. For the Holy Spirit is Him who convicts me of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment.
 

And when God says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

You preach that this doesn't really mean Abraham kept God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws.

I don't believe God's Word is inconclusive at all, I think it is man's religion that is inconclusive.

No GB, you get it all wrong again. When God says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.", I preach exactly just what it says. What I don't preach is that God's charge to Abraham is exactly the same as God's charge to the children of Israel sometime in the exodus. Also, what I don't preach is that God's commandments, statutes, and laws He gave to Abraham is exactly the same as God's commandments, statutes, and laws He gave to the children of Israel sometime in the exodus. Tell me if the Spirit, if it is in you, says this is wrong.

You said "God chose the tribe of Levi, and made a covenant with him on behalf of the Children of Israel." While it is true that God chose the Levites to take the office of priesthood, I don't see the matter of God making a covenant with Levi on behalf of the children of Israel. Unless and until you show me scriptures that speaks of such, that would just be to me, your own opinion.

EX. 26:20 And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.

So here we are again. You are correcting me, preaching to me and making statements that what I post is my own opinion. Yet, here once again, God's Word Proves your religious beliefs wrong. At what point will you accept the possibility that maybe Jesus actually described HIS NEW Covenant correctly, and it is your religion which teaches incorrectly.

Easy GB. Let it be clear, the issue is that you are preaching and teaching that the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant is that of the covenant with Levi, that of the Levitical priesthood, which you teach and preach to be the covenant God made with the children of Israel. This is by reason that you say, that the covenant of God with Levi is on behalf of the children of Israel. Having put that on the clear, Let's go the scriptures which you take reference in support of this doctrine of yours.

First, I have to point out, this is what is written in Exo. 26:20-21

20 And for the second side of the tabernacle on the north side there shall be twenty boards: 21 And their forty sockets of silver; two sockets under one board, and two sockets under another board.
 
Second, on the scriptures you posted, it's not hard at all to see that what is speak about does not in any way support your doctrine. For this is merely about a statute that says "thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always."

Perhaps you have other scriptures to show. Sorry, try again.

While the Levitical Priesthood is part of the Law of Moses, it is not all of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses or Mosaic Law or simply the Law, are the ten commandments engraved in stone, the and the complex and restrictive laws of the levitical priesthood code [Exod. 34—Lev. 16].

But in the Promise the Christ gave of HIS New Covenant, and HIS definition of the HIS NEW Covenant, only the manner in which God's Laws are administered, and the manner in which transgressions of those Laws are atoned for, is mentioned. No other change was ever mentioned in the entire Bible. Every other change, like the ten commandments becoming obsolete, or God's creation of Holy and Unholy becomes obsolete, all these are simply religious doctrines of the land that you have been convinced of. Just as you were convinced that God never made a covenant with Levi, and also just like you were convinced that God didn't make this covenant "On Israel's behalf.

It is "YHVH" or "YHWH", not Christ who promised GB. Let's be faithful to the Holy Scriptures.

If you view it that way, let it be then with you. I won't repeat what I've written concerning this in the segment above. I also get tired you know. Don't you? So, perhaps you can refrain from repeating the saying the same things over and over, when they had already been addressed. 

And this Levitical priesthood is not the first covenant God made with the children of Israel. See my discussion in the segment above regarding the covenant God made with the children of Israel. The Levitical priesthood code was given as part of the restored covenant.

No, the Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to God's Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, "Till the Seed should come". God passed HIS Covenant with Abraham onto his son and grandson, and then on to their children. Only this time HE "ADDED" a Priesthood. This is the "first Covenant" He actually made specifically with and on behalf of the Children of Israel.

You are just repeating the things you said which I have addressed already. Insisting isn't at all refuting.

Regarding Gal. 3:19, I have already explained my take on that in one of my past posts, so I will not here make a comment as this post really is now very long.

Yes.

It is part of the Old covenant GB, but is not all the whole Old Covenant. At least, in my reading of the Bible.

I know this is a popular teaching in the religions of the land, but you must admit, The Christ is not on the same page as you on this subject.

I really think you should trust the Christ and His Definition of His New Covenant. I know few do, and you will be going against modern religious doctrines and traditions, religious men will make fun of you. But shouldn't we trust Him and His Word's over religious men? And you will have to admit that the Christ did think it worthy to mention in HIS Promise of a New Covenant, that HIS LAWS would become obsolete as you and "many who come in Christ's name" preach.

I find it hard to believe that the Christ forgot to tell me in His Promise of a New Covenant, that HE was going to make HIS LAWS, that HE walked in, and promised to write on my heart, obsolete.

But as I said, religious traditions of men are a powerful deception all through the Bible, I think a man would be foolish to think they no longer are.

Seemingly you know a lot. But one thing I think you don't know, the New Covenant of God and His amazing grace.

[Michael2012]

What I do know and learned from scriptures (not from religious traditions and doctrines of men) at present is this "the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost."; and "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Simply put, meat and drink or anything that enters the man through the mouth, does not make the man unclean, for such things has nothing to do with the kingdom of God.

   
I agree, there isn't anything outside of our mind that can make us reject, rebel against or transgress God's Commandments. Rebellion, disobedience, dishonor, malice, pride, iniquity, all comes from within.

That's good. So no issues over food and drink then.

1 Cor. 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

For what purpose does OT scriptures say that God had some animals clean and some unclean?

What does scriptures say why in the OT God prohibited the eating of animals which are said to be unclean?

Just asking.

And thinking out loud,

Well let's let the Christ answer your question then.

Lev. 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Now these are the scriptures the Christ gave us. But the religious tradition of the land is to reject these Word's out right.

I have chosen to abide by HIS word's and to "Take Heed" as He warned, of the teaching that comes from the "MANY" who come in HIS NAME.

To be more accurate, those are the words of YHVH or YHWH.

Lev. 11: 45 is clear when it said "For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy."

Are you of the children of Israel whom God had brought out of Egypt or one of the children of the them whom God brought out of Egypt? Unless you are, then this is not for you GB.

I can see that you have chosen to be under the law of Moses written in the book of the law. Here's what Jesus said relative to defilement:

"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

God, before the fall told Adam "See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food."? Except for the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was there an issue if there were poisonous herb that yields seed and poisonous fruit trees then? Were there clean and unclean animals back then?

If this verse was the only verse in the entire Bible, then you may have a point. But there are other verses which more definitely define God's Creation as to what was created for food and what was created for something else. I believe God would have informed Adam just as HE did Noah on the "Difference between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten". The difference obviously existed.

Well there you go. You believe and teach for doctrine, that which comes from your speculation.

In the beginning, before the sin of Adam, no animals were created for food. There is no such thing as clean and unclean animal for food in the beginning, before Adam sinned.

After the fall, and after the great flood, had God not told Noah "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."? Was there an issue if there were poisonous living things back then? If there were, why aren't there scriptures that identifies these poisonous living things  and prohibits the eating thereof?

You are making a mistake when you only reference those verses which can be used to promote your own religious lifestyle.

Gen. 8:18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

This was after the flood. What does it matter to us that God chose not to define His Commandments until after Genesis. It doesn't mean they didn't exist, or that He didn't share them with His People.

This is why Jesus said "Man shall live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".

In other words, there wasn't an issue if there were poisonous living things back then. For even while there were mentioned clean and unclean animals, there was no mention of the poisonous ones which if one eats of will die. Are the poisonous ones clean or unclean? They are not identified to be unclean. And by what God had told Noah, that he can eat every moving thing that liveth, it means that he can eat of them. Well of course not with the poison still in it.

But these are the words in scriptures written by the Paul, a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ:

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155060#msg1055155060 date=1579702187]

Easy GB. Let it be clear, the issue is that you are preaching and teaching that the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant is that of the covenant with Levi, that of the Levitical priesthood, which you teach and preach to be the covenant God made with the children of Israel. This is by reason that you say, that the covenant of God with Levi is on behalf of the children of Israel. Having put that on the clear, Let's go the scriptures which you take reference in support of this doctrine of yours.

No, you are mischaracterizing my position again. God's Covenant with Israel was the Levitical Priesthood compact He made with Levi. He gave Levi as a Priesthood to Israel. That is the First Covenant that God made with Israel. Abraham was justified "Apart" from this Law, it wasn't even "ADDED" until 430 years later. Everything else was God passing HIS Covenant with Abraham, which He passed onto Isaac, then onto Jacob, and then onto Jacob's Children, AKA, the Children of Israel.

I don't have just one scripture that I reference. I use Every Word of God. You preach that God made HIS LAWS, Commandments, Statutes, all that was given to the Children of Israel, "Obsolete" in the New Covenant. You have nothing but ancient religious traditions of man to support this. The very Word's of the Christ expose this doctrine as false.

First you said God didn't make a Covenant with Levi, which the Word's of the Christ exposed as a false teaching, then you said God's Covenant with Levi wasn't on Israel's behalf. Again, the very Word's of the Christ expose yet another false teaching.

You have nothing from scripture to prove your religious tradition regarding your definition of the Christ's New Covenant, and until God's Word's showed you, you didn't have a clue what the Old covenant was all about either.. In fact, if I hadn't had the patience to show you what was actually written, you would still not know anything about what the Christ's actual Covenant was. Now you are simply defending your religious doctrines in spite of the Christ's own Words.

I showed you the Hebrews Author's detailed explanation of what "LAW", by necessity, was changed, and you completely ignored it. I showed you the Christ's Word's defining HIS New Covenant, in which His Laws are to be written on the hearts of HIS People, something I can attest to.

Yet even with all these Word's from the very Christ you claim to follow, you are still promoting the ancient religious doctrine that God's entire Law structure became obsolete in the New Covenant.

You have been deceived about God's Covenant with Levi, and the fact that God made this Covenant on Israel's behalf. You are also deceived regarding the definition of the New Covenant. All I am saying is to read the Christ's definition, and then believe it. Even if the religions of the land you were born into doesn't.

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155063#msg1055155063 date=1579706785]
   

I agree, there isn't anything outside of our mind that can make us reject, rebel against or transgress God's Commandments. Rebellion, disobedience, dishonor, malice, pride, iniquity, all comes from within.

That's good. So no issues over food and drink then.

1 Cor. 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
   

So then, if I go to a butchers shop and it sells me meat with maggots in it, I must eat without questioning it because what, the maggots are the Lord's too?

 This is the problem with using scriptures, not as Paul said to use them, for doctrines, correction and instruction in righteousness, but for the purpose of justifying transgression of God's Commandments. You use them as support for your religious doctrines, and therefore you are blinded as to what they are really saying.

I have No issue with God's definition of food and drink, no issue with God's definition of Holy and Unholy, nor do I have an issue with God's Definition of Righteous and Unrighteous.

How can a person reject a judgment of God to HIS Glory? In your religion,  Can you cheat on your wife, as long as you do it "to the glory of God"? How do you disobey God "To His Glory"?

In your religion, Can you steal someone's money as long as you do it "to the glory of God"?

How does that work Michael? Do I say "I hear by cheat on my wife, or I hereby steal your money, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost". Is this the way you are free to practice iniquity in your religion?

The Kingdom of God more than marriage, and money, just as it is more than eat or drink? Yet, this behavior wouldn't be acceptable, even in your religion, would it Michael?

Eating an apple without washing your hands does not make the apple unclean, nor does it defile you as Jesus explained. Why? Because there isn't a Commandment that says "always wash your hands before picking apples to eat". If there was, then eating an apple with unwashed hands would defile you.

What defiles you is disobedience, disrespect and dishonor to the Commandments and judgments of God, all of which comes from within.

After all, He is God, Yes? Shall I not believe HIS Judgments? Shall I not obey Him?

To be more accurate, those are the words of YHVH or YHWH.

Whatever. The pertinent question would be, "In your religion, did this God create all that is created? And even you must answer yes. Then the next question, "is this the God that became Flesh"?

Lev. 11: 45 is clear when it said "For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy."

Are you of the children of Israel whom God had brought out of Egypt or one of the children of the them whom God brought out of Egypt? Unless you are, then this is not for you GB.

Absolutely Michael. I was burdened with the yoke of deception, held captive by sin (Egypt) which would not let me go. But I heard of the Passover Lamb and the instruction to place His Blood (Life) in my mind and my body.  And God, through His Word which became Flesh, led me out of sin, just as the Christ led the Children of Israel out of sin.

 Were you not led out of sin?

I can see that you have chosen to be under the law of Moses written in the book of the law. Here's what Jesus said relative to defilement:

They are not Moses Laws, they are God's. God Gave Moses HIS LAWS. So I have simply chosen to submit myself to God's Word as He instructs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

 The Law of Moses that you are referencing is the Levitical Priesthood, or as Jesus called it "Moses Seat". The people "received the Laws", Commandments and Statues of God, which define sin, from this Priesthood. They were also in charge of the atonement of the sins of the people. But they rejected God's judgments and created their own, thus leading God's People astray. Therefore, finding fault with them, God gave us a New Priesthood in which HIS Son is the mediator, not Levites. I have not chosen to be "under the Law" of Moses, although there are still Jews who promote it. But I do believe we are to yield our self's to God's Judgments, just as the man Jesus, who gave Himself for me, Did.

So once again, your characterization is flawed.

"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

Yes, disobedience to God comes from within and defiles a man.

If this verse was the only verse in the entire Bible, then you may have a point. But there are other verses which more definitely define God's Creation as to what was created for food and what was created for something else. I believe God would have informed Adam just as HE did Noah on the "Difference between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten". The difference obviously existed.

Well there you go. You believe and teach for doctrine, that which comes from your speculation.

It is no speculation that God's creation of clean and unclean animals existed in Noah's time.

In the beginning, before the sin of Adam, no animals were created for food. There is no such thing as clean and unclean animal for food in the beginning, before Adam sinned.

Speculation to support your rejection of God's instruction. You have nothing from scriptures saying God didn't create animals for food, and a lot of scriptures which teach he did..

20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

Gen. 8:18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

This was after the flood. What does it matter to us that God chose not to define His Commandments until after Genesis. It doesn't mean they didn't exist, or that He didn't share them with His People.

This is why Jesus said "Man shall live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".


In other words, there wasn't an issue if there were poisonous living things back then. For even while there were mentioned clean and unclean animals, there was no mention of the poisonous ones which if one eats of will die. Are the poisonous ones clean or unclean? They are not identified to be unclean. And by what God had told Noah, that he can eat every moving thing that liveth, it means that he can eat of them. Well of course not with the poison still in it.

God defines for the His people in Leviticus what Noah already knew as it is written. I am assuming God instructed Noah as to what food was. At any rate, he knew of God's Creation and judgments where animals were concerned.

But these are the words in scriptures written by the Paul, a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ:

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

So then, in your religion, "ALL things are pure". But wait, it is "EVIL", not pure to eat with offence. So then, "all things" are not pure are they? And how would I eat with offence? Who created beasts for food and beasts not for food. In your religion, isn't this also a Work of God I'm not to destroy?

If God teaches not to hate a brother in my heart, but I do it anyway. In your religion, would this be offensive to God?

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Who are the defiled Michael? Would these be those who rejected God's Judgments and adopted their own from the religions of the land? Those who disrespected God's definition of Holy, Clean, and Righteousness, and rejected them in favor of popular religious traditions?

Who are the pure? Those who have yielded themselves to the Word of God? You don't know what you are talking about Michael.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Swine is not evil Michael, it just isn't food. Just like the poison frog isn't evil, it just isn't food. And we know this because the Christ, the creator of all things, tells us in great detail what He created for food, and what was not. You are, once again, cherry picking scriptures in an attempt to justify your rejection of God's judgments.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

How can I have Faith in God, but not believe in His Judgments? How does a man "condemn himself"? If I read God's Word which says "Don't steal", but I steal anyway, have I not condemned myself?

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

[Michael2012]

Easy GB. Let it be clear, the issue is that you are preaching and teaching that the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant is that of the covenant with Levi, that of the Levitical priesthood, which you teach and preach to be the covenant God made with the children of Israel. This is by reason that you say, that the covenant of God with Levi is on behalf of the children of Israel. Having put that on the clear, Let's go the scriptures which you take reference in support of this doctrine of yours.

No, you are mischaracterizing my position again. God's Covenant with Israel was the Levitical Priesthood compact He made with Levi. He gave Levi as a Priesthood to Israel. That is the First Covenant that God made with Israel. Abraham was justified "Apart" from this Law, it wasn't even "ADDED" until 430 years later. Everything else was God passing HIS Covenant with Abraham, which He passed onto Isaac, then onto Jacob, and then onto Jacob's Children, AKA, the Children of Israel.

I only said what I understand your position to be in my reading of your posts. Clearly you are preaching and teaching that the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant is that of the covenant with Levi (Levitical priesthood), which you also teach and preach to be the covenant between God and Israel. By that, you leave out and ignore what scriptures says constitutes the covenant God made with Israel. Let me show you the scriptures:

Exodus 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

They did not obey the voice of God, for they heed not the voice of Moses. But God still took them out of Egypt just as He had said.

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

Concerning the covenant between God and Israel, it does not end there. God gave them His ten commandments engraved in stone (Exodus 20). And what do you think is the reason why God gave them those commandments? Also, what do you understand in Exodus 24:12 (Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.” )? The obvious: Israel knew not. And does that not bring to mind anything with the new covenant concerning that? Unlike in this covenant where the law and commandments of God were written in tablets and must be taught to the people, in the new covenant, God will put His laws into the mind, and write them in the hearts of the people: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people, and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, for all shall know Him.

God not only gave to them that, but God gave them, through Moses, many other commandments, statutes, ordinances, regulations, and judgments (Exod. 20:22-23).  In Exo. 24:3-4, we read, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.".

Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

You can see that in Exodus 24:7, Israel affirms the covenant and in verse 8, Moses formally ratified the (Mosaic) Covenant.

Now in Exodus 25-31, God gave them, through Moses, directions, instructions, ordinances, involving the Sanctuary, Ark of the Covenant, Table for the Showbread, Gold Lampstand, Tabernacle, Altar of Burnt Offering, Court of the Tabernacle, Care of the Lampstand, Garments for the Priesthood, Ephod, Breastplate, Other Priestly Garments, Consecration of the priests (Levitical priesthood), service of the priests, sign of the Sabbath. These are all part of the covenant that God made with the children of Israel during the Exodus. Are some of these not mentioned and referred to in Hebrews 8 & 9? Yes?

Not for long, the children of Israel had broken the covenant with God (Exod. 32). God's wrath was upon them who had corrupted themselves. God offered to destroy all the rebellious Israelites that day. But Moses had obtained God's promise to renew the covenant bond with Israel. In Exodus 34, God directed him to restore the covenant revelation, by having the Ten Commandments re-inscribed on two new stone tablets. You see, Israel's initial relationship with God at Sinai, which was characterized by the ten commandments, and the simple Covenant Code I had just written about in the foregoing paragraphs, is now represented by the ten commandments, other statutes, ordinances, judgments, and the complex and restrictive laws of the Code of the Priests ~ (Exod. 21-31, 34-Lev. 16).

I hope you can see better now why I say that your doctrine regarding the old and new covenant is erroneous, false, and not in accordance with scriptures.

As you can see, that's not according to any religious tradition, but according to scriptures.

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155117#msg1055155117 date=1579800074]

No, you are mischaracterizing my position again. God's Covenant with Israel was the Levitical Priesthood compact He made with Levi. He gave Levi as a Priesthood to Israel. That is the First Covenant that God made with Israel. Abraham was justified "Apart" from this Law, it wasn't even "ADDED" until 430 years later. Everything else was God passing HIS Covenant with Abraham, which He passed onto Isaac, then onto Jacob, and then onto Jacob's Children, AKA, the Children of Israel.

I only said what I understand your position to be in my reading of your posts. Clearly you are preaching and teaching that the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant is that of the covenant with Levi (Levitical priesthood), which you also teach and preach to be the covenant between God and Israel. By that, you leave out and ignore what scriptures says constitutes the covenant God made with Israel. Let me show you the scriptures:

Exodus 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Gen. 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.

7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

[/b] 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.[/i][/color]

God gave Israel HIS COVENANT that He made with Abraham. To bring His Seed into the Land. This is what the scriptures teach.

They did not obey the voice of God, for they heed not the voice of Moses. But God still took them out of Egypt just as He had said.

Only the ones who obeyed Him left Egypt. Those who refused to take the Blood of the Lamb, and follow God's instructions regarding it did not leave Egypt. But the ones, both Jew and the Stranger that sojourned with them, which partook of the Passover were allowed to follow Moses out of Egypt.

So your preaching, once again, is proven false by the word of God. Those men who did not heed the voice of Moses, did not leave Egypt.

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

Again, you are miss-representing His Word.

Numb. 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Concerning the covenant between God and Israel, it does not end there. God gave them His ten commandments engraved in stone (Exodus 20). And what do you think is the reason why God gave them those commandments?

For the same reason He gave His Laws, Commandments and Statutes to Abraham.

Also, what do you understand in Exodus 24:12 (Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.” )? The obvious: Israel knew not.

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Did Abraham teach his Children the way of the Lord?

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Now since I believe God's Word, I am sure that Abraham taught his children as God instructed. With HIS Way, and HIS Judgments, and HIS justice.

But the Children of Israel didn't know them, as you so cleverly stated. Why didn't they know them? Because "in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage". They had forgotten God's Judgments.

Your preaching that they didn't know God's Way, and judgments, because they didn't exist, is another in a long line of false religious doctrines that you further on this forum.
 

And does that not bring to mind anything with the new covenant concerning that? Unlike in this covenant where the law and commandments of God were written in tablets and must be taught to the people, in the new covenant, God will put His laws into the mind, and write them in the hearts of the people: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people, and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, for all shall know Him.

So in your religion, did Moses mass produce tablets of stone and distribute them to each and every Israelite, and those who sojourned with them? Or were the tables of stone in the Sanctuary where ONLY the Levite, by Law, could touch and read them?

Please answer this question.

And what did the Christ promise in the New Covenant? Do we still have to find a Levite Priest to receive God's Law as in the First Covenant? Or did the Christ promise a New and better way to receive God's Laws, and have our sin stoned for?

Please answer this question?

God not only gave to them that, but God gave them, through Moses, many other commandments, statutes, ordinances, regulations, and judgments (Exod. 20:22-23).  In Exo. 24:3-4, we read, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.".

Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

You can see that in Exodus 24:7, Israel affirms the covenant and in verse 8, Moses formally ratified the (Mosaic) Covenant.

You preach that this was the "Mosiac" covenant, but God's Laws, judgments and Commandments existed before Israel was even born. There can be no doubt that God gave Israel His Covenant with Abraham, which would include HIS Way, HIS Judgments and HIS Justice.

What is also a Biblical truth without doubt, is that Abraham, who Had God's Ways, judgment and justice, didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, as Levi wasn't even born yet. God "ADDED" this LAW to the existing Ways, Judgments and Justice of God that Abraham taught Isaac, and Isaac taught Jacob.

Why would you deny these Biblical truths?

Now in Exodus 25-31, God gave them, through Moses, directions, instructions, ordinances, involving the Sanctuary, Ark of the Covenant, Table for the Showbread, Gold Lampstand, Tabernacle, Altar of Burnt Offering, Court of the Tabernacle, Care of the Lampstand, Garments for the Priesthood, Ephod, Breastplate, Other Priestly Garments, Consecration of the priests (Levitical priesthood), service of the priests, sign of the Sabbath. These are all part of the covenant that God made with the children of Israel during the Exodus. Are some of these not mentioned and referred to in Hebrews 8 & 9? Yes?

No, the duties of the Levitical Priest were exclusive to the Levites. No Children of Israel were allowed in the Sanctuary, nor could they even touch the Arc of the Covenant, nor the Table of Showbread, not the golden Lampstand, nor could they enter the Tabernacle, nor could they partake of the Priesthood "Works" regarding the Alter of burnt offering, nor could they wear the garments of the Priesthood, or the Ephod, or the Breastplate, nor could they consecrate the Priests, nor perform any service of the Priests.

But the Sabbath, was not among these Priesthood duties. It was directed specifically to the people. The Priest's were allowed to perform "work" on God's Sabbaths that no other Israelite were allowed to perform.

And this Priesthood did not exist before Exodus. But the Very commandment of HIS Holy Sabbath references the sanctification and blessing of this judgment of God at creation. Adultery was known to Abimelech, Abraham knew of the Passover Lamb, Noah knew God's Definition of clean and unclean animals, Noah's son knew God's Laws regarding looking on the nakedness of their father.

Your preaching that God's Ways, Justice, Judgments, Commandments, Statutes, and Laws didn't exist before Exodus is a false teaching. Not because I say so, but because the Word's of God says so.

Not for long, the children of Israel had broken the covenant with God (Exod. 32). God's wrath was upon them who had corrupted themselves. God offered to destroy all the rebellious Israelites that day. But Moses had obtained God's promise to renew the covenant bond with Israel. In Exodus 34, God directed him to restore the covenant revelation, by having the Ten Commandments re-inscribed on two new stone tablets. You see, Israel's initial relationship with God at Sinai, which was characterized by the ten commandments, and the simple Covenant Code I had just written about in the foregoing paragraphs, is now represented by the ten commandments, other statutes, ordinances, judgments, and the complex and restrictive laws of the Code of the Priests ~ (Exod. 21-31, 34-Lev. 16).

No, Israel's relationship with God prompted God to create and give Israel a Priesthood that had never existed before then. Sin, as defined by God, was in the world in the very beginning.

As Paul explains.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Added to what? God's Ways and Judgments. Transgression of what? God's Ways and Judgments known to man since Abel gave an acceptable sacrifice to God.

I hope you can see better now why I say that your doctrine regarding the old and new covenant is erroneous, false, and not in accordance with scriptures.

As you can see, that's not according to any religious tradition, but according to scriptures.

You didn't even know God made a Covenant with Levi until I showed you the truth about this. Then you never knew God created a Priesthood on behalf of Israel, until I showed you point blank, that God did indeed make His Covenant with Levi on Israel's behalf.

Each time you are being shown the truth, you tell me I am in error.

So again, I am showing you the truth of the scriptures, and you are still accusing me of being in error, completely oblivious to what has just happened to your own religious doctrines.

Until you can admit to the Biblical truth that God's Judgments existed before Sinai, you will never understand the Covenant that changed.

[Michael2012]

That's good. So no issues over food and drink then.

1 Cor. 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake: 26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

   
So then, if I go to a butchers shop and it sells me meat with maggots in it, I must eat without questioning it because what, the maggots are the Lord's too?

Take that with Paul, not me. I did not say those scriptures. Those aren't my words.

Besides, Paul said "that eat, asking no question for conscience sake". What is this concern with the conscience? It's not about whether the thing sold is spoiled or not, or with maggots or not. Read the context GB.

How can a person reject a judgment of God to HIS Glory? In your religion,  Can you cheat on your wife, as long as you do it "to the glory of God"? How do you disobey God "To His Glory"?

In your religion, Can you steal someone's money as long as you do it "to the glory of God"?

How does that work Michael? Do I say "I hear by cheat on my wife, or I hereby steal your money, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost". Is this the way you are free to practice iniquity in your religion?

Nobody is saying that one glorifies God by sinning. Don't you understand what Paul said there in 1 Cor. 10:31? Read the contexts.

The Kingdom of God more than marriage, and money, just as it is more than eat or drink? Yet, this behavior wouldn't be acceptable, even in your religion, would it Michael?

Eating an apple without washing your hands does not make the apple unclean, nor does it defile you as Jesus explained. Why? Because there isn't a Commandment that says "always wash your hands before picking apples to eat". If there was, then eating an apple with unwashed hands would defile you.

It does make the apple unclean if you hold it with unclean hands GB. But even so, eating it will not the defile the man who eats, for I was taught by Jesus that "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man". It might make you sick afterwards, but not defile you in any way in the eyes of God. You have done no sin by that.

What defiles you is disobedience, disrespect and dishonor to the Commandments and judgments of God, all of which comes from within.

Yes.

After all, He is God, Yes? Shall I not believe HIS Judgments? Shall I not obey Him?

You are to obey all His commands to you, but should you do His commands meant for others and not for you?

To be more accurate, those are the words of YHVH or YHWH.

Whatever. The pertinent question would be, "In your religion, did this God create all that is created? And even you must answer yes. Then the next question, "is this the God that became Flesh"?

I was only saying to be faithful to the texts of scriptures. But to comment, I have already pointed out, while God is one, there surely is a distinction between the persons of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. Scriptures said, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.". This is the Son, not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit.

Lev. 11: 45 is clear when it said "For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy."

Are you of the children of Israel whom God had brought out of Egypt or one of the children of the them whom God brought out of Egypt? Unless you are, then this is not for you GB.

Absolutely Michael. I was burdened with the yoke of deception, held captive by sin (Egypt) which would not let me go. But I heard of the Passover Lamb and the instruction to place His Blood (Life) in my mind and my body.  And God, through His Word which became Flesh, led me out of sin, just as the Christ led the Children of Israel out of sin.

 Were you not led out of sin?

Are you not in your right senses GB? For you did not exist at the time of the exodus. But if you are a descendant of any of them, then you are.

Were I not led out of sin? What does that have to do with the issue of whether you or I was among those whom God brought out of the land of Egypt at the time of Moses?

I was led out of sin by Jesus Christ. But that does not mean that I was brought out of the land of Egypt nor was my father among those whom God led out of the land of Egypt during the time of Moses. I would be lying if I say I am.

I can see that you have chosen to be under the law of Moses written in the book of the law. Here's what Jesus said relative to defilement:

They are not Moses Laws, they are God's. God Gave Moses HIS LAWS. So I have simply chosen to submit myself to God's Word as He instructs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Of course they are God's laws that He gave to Moses for the children of Israel. These laws Moses wrote in a book which scriptures refer to as the book of the law. And these laws scriptures refer to as the law of Moses. Now, if you are a Christian, then you ought to be listening to Jesus.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Jesus said "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

Hear and believe!

The Law of Moses that you are referencing is the Levitical Priesthood, or as Jesus called it "Moses Seat". The people "received the Laws", Commandments and Statues of God, which define sin, from this Priesthood. They were also in charge of the atonement of the sins of the people. But they rejected God's judgments and created their own, thus leading God's People astray. Therefore, finding fault with them, God gave us a New Priesthood in which HIS Son is the mediator, not Levites. I have not chosen to be "under the Law" of Moses, although there are still Jews who promote it. But I do believe we are to yield our self's to God's Judgments, just as the man Jesus, who gave Himself for me, Did.

So once again, your characterization is flawed.

False. Consider the holy scriptures and what it says what the law of Moses is.

1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

2 Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the Lord commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Forget about what the priesthood actually taught them and consider what is written in the book of the law of Moses. For these are what are written: God's statutes, and  commandments, and judgments, and testimonies. 

"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."

Yes, disobedience to God comes from within and defiles a man.

And don't forget the other half of that statement of truth, "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him".

If this verse was the only verse in the entire Bible, then you may have a point. But there are other verses which more definitely define God's Creation as to what was created for food and what was created for something else. I believe God would have informed Adam just as HE did Noah on the "Difference between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten". The difference obviously existed.

Well there you go. You believe and teach for doctrine, that which comes from your speculation.

It is no speculation that God's creation of clean and unclean animals existed in Noah's time.

The speculation I refer to is in your statement "I believe God would have informed Adam just as HE did Noah on the "Difference between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten".

In the beginning, before the sin of Adam, no animals were created for food. There is no such thing as clean and unclean animal for food in the beginning, before Adam sinned.

Speculation to support your rejection of God's instruction. You have nothing from scriptures saying God didn't create animals for food, and a lot of scriptures which teach he did..

20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

No GB. That is no speculation. For it is true with certainty that no animal was given by God to Adam for food in the beginning, before Adam sinned.

In other words, there wasn't an issue if there were poisonous living things back then. For even while there were mentioned clean and unclean animals, there was no mention of the poisonous ones which if one eats of will die. Are the poisonous ones clean or unclean? They are not identified to be unclean. And by what God had told Noah, that he can eat every moving thing that liveth, it means that he can eat of them. Well of course not with the poison still in it.

God defines for the His people in Leviticus what Noah already knew as it is written. I am assuming God instructed Noah as to what food was. At any rate, he knew of God's Creation and judgments where animals were concerned.

So, there is the assumption (guess). No further...

But these are the words in scriptures written by the Paul, a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ:

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

So then, in your religion, "ALL things are pure". But wait, it is "EVIL", not pure to eat with offence. So then, "all things" are not pure are they? And how would I eat with offence? Who created beasts for food and beasts not for food. In your religion, isn't this also a Work of God I'm not to destroy?

I did not say "all things are indeed pure" GB, Paul did. Take that in its context GB. Besides Paul was not talking about works or acts. He did not say all acts or works are indeed pure.

If God teaches not to hate a brother in my heart, but I do it anyway. In your religion, would this be offensive to God?

If God commanded you something, then you must obey.

If God commanded Moses something, but not you, what will you do?

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Who are the defiled Michael? Would these be those who rejected God's Judgments and adopted their own from the religions of the land? Those who disrespected God's definition of Holy, Clean, and Righteousness, and rejected them in favor of popular religious traditions?

In context, the defiled are the unbelieving, who profess that they know God; but in works they deny him.

Who are the pure? Those who have yielded themselves to the Word of God? You don't know what you are talking about Michael.

In context, they are the undefiled and believing.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Swine is not evil Michael, it just isn't food. Just like the poison frog isn't evil, it just isn't food. And we know this because the Christ, the creator of all things, tells us in great detail what He created for food, and what was not. You are, once again, cherry picking scriptures in an attempt to justify your rejection of God's judgments.

No one says swine is evil GB. If it's not food for you then so be it then with you.

And yes, poison frog is not evil GB. No one says it is. And no one says you eat it with the poison still in it.

I on the other hand understand and accept what Paul is saying there to Timothy, who is a Christian. In the immediate context, Paul speaks of some who depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils such as commanding to abstain from certain foods. We learn here that the commanding to abstain from certain foods is a doctrine of the devil. Why so? God had created all food to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. And that every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving.

No cherry picking GB. Those scriptures were quoted and chosen as they are that which are taught to the Christian GB. I see no reason why I should quote scriptures that are taught and addressed to the non Christian.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

How can I have Faith in God, but not believe in His Judgments? How does a man "condemn himself"? If I read God's Word which says "Don't steal", but I steal anyway, have I not condemned myself?

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Faith is it.
 
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

He that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith.
Whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If one keeps and observes God's commandments, yet not of faith, he sins.

As to your questions, you must realize and acknowledge that there are commandments of God not addressed to you.

If you are a Christian, then you ought to be listening to Jesus.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Hear and believe!

[Michael2012]

GB,

You believe and teach that only the Levitical priesthood regulation, law and structure, was abolished, and not the entire law written in the book of the law. You also believe and teach that God's laws, statutes and commandments that He gave to the children of Israel that Moses had written in book of the law are still in effect and are the same laws, statutes and commandments given by God to Abraham.

With all honesty then, can you give your answer to these simple questions:

1. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses still are in effect and should be kept and observed? Do you keep and observe them?

examples:
 
a). He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
b). He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
c). He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
d). He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
e). Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
f). The man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

2. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses, the ones given to and kept and observed by Abraham?

3. Can you give some of the statutes that God gave to Abraham which He gave also to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses?

[Michael2012]

I only said what I understand your position to be in my reading of your posts. Clearly you are preaching and teaching that the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant is that of the covenant with Levi (Levitical priesthood), which you also teach and preach to be the covenant between God and Israel. By that, you leave out and ignore what scriptures says constitutes the covenant God made with Israel. Let me show you the scriptures:

Exodus 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

Gen. 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.

7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

God gave Israel HIS COVENANT that He made with Abraham. To bring His Seed into the Land. This is what the scriptures teach.

Yes, God promised Abram to give the land of Canaan to his seed in Genesis 12.

Regarding this promise, God made a covenant with Abraham particular to this.

Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
.
.
18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Clearly, the seed referred to in this covenant refers to Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his posterity, those who came to Egypt and served there and were afflicted for four hundred years. These are them who later God saved from Egypt, leading them out of Egypt as was told in Exodus.
 

They did not obey the voice of God, for they heed not the voice of Moses. But God still took them out of Egypt just as He had said.

Only the ones who obeyed Him left Egypt. Those who refused to take the Blood of the Lamb, and follow God's instructions regarding it did not leave Egypt. But the ones, both Jew and the Stranger that sojourned with them, which partook of the Passover were allowed to follow Moses out of Egypt.

So your preaching, once again, is proven false by the word of God. Those men who did not heed the voice of Moses, did not leave Egypt.

You said "Only the ones who obeyed Him left Egypt. Those who refused to take the Blood of the Lamb, and follow God's instructions regarding it did not leave Egypt." Well you can say that. And that might be if scriptures so tell us.

As for me, this is what I know in scriptures.

They were persuaded and believed this:

Exodus 4:31 And the people believed: and when they heard that the Lord had visited the children of Israel, and that he had looked upon their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshipped.

Then,

Exod. 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

God promised in covenant to them all (without exception), the children of Israel, that He will deliver them out of Egypt. That is unconditional and without exception. Will not God fulfill exactly what He promised? Of course He will!

But, this was their response: Exod. 6:9 And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel: but they hearkened not unto Moses for anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage.

Because of their anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage, they heed not. But still, and we have this as what came to pass,

Exodus 12:51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

Not only them, but also a mixed multitude who went with them.

Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

God is faithful. He fulfills His words and unconditional promise to the children of Israel to deliver them out of Egypt.

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

Again, you are miss-representing His Word.

Numb. 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

No misrepresentation there GB. That's all scriptures in the quotebox. The scriptures in the quotebox was quoted simply to show what else the covenant was about and not anything else. What you make out of citing Numbers 14, I don't know where that is coming from.

Concerning the covenant between God and Israel, it does not end there. God gave them His ten commandments engraved in stone (Exodus 20). And what do you think is the reason why God gave them those commandments?

For the same reason He gave His Laws, Commandments and Statutes to Abraham.

And what is that?

Also, what do you understand in Exodus 24:12 (Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.” )? The obvious: Israel knew not.

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Did Abraham teach his Children the way of the Lord?

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Now since I believe God's Word, I am sure that Abraham taught his children as God instructed. With HIS Way, and HIS Judgments, and HIS justice.

That at all does not prove that the Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave Abraham, are the exact same ones God gave to the children of Israel in covenant with them.

But the Children of Israel didn't know them, as you so cleverly stated. Why didn't they know them? Because "in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage". They had forgotten God's Judgments.

The scriptures you quoted does not in any way say that they forgot. Rather what it says is that by reason of their bondage, they cried, and their cry came up unto God.

Anyway, so for you, they forgot. That nobody remembered His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, even the Levites perhaps, such as Moses and Aaron. Now forgetting would imply that they knew them, but just have forgotten of them. Yes? Yes. So, they just need to be made to remember. God, who certainly know this as He is all knowing, if this were the case, could have easily caused each one to miraculously remember. But we know that He had not done that. Instead that they will be taught of them, causing Moses to write them down and have the Levites teach the people, so they will know of them. And for sure God have a wise and good reason and purpose for that.

In one of your posts, you seem to be saying that God's giving of His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, is the covenant of God with Abraham.

Now consider, when scriptures say God remembered His covenant with Abraham, you are actually saying that God remembered His Laws, Commandments and Statutes He gave Abraham. But what actually "God remembered His covenant with Abraham" refers to is this:

Exodus 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

God was not there referring to His Laws, commandments and statutes, but refers to that which He swear to Abraham, as even to Isaac, and to Jacob, as can be learned in the passage above, and that, in covenant with each one of them.

Your preaching that they didn't know God's Way, and judgments, because they didn't exist, is another in a long line of false religious doctrines that you further on this forum.

Lie. I never preached that they didn't know God's Way, and judgments, because they didn't exist.

And does that not bring to mind anything with the new covenant concerning that? Unlike in this covenant where the law and commandments of God were written in tablets and must be taught to the people, in the new covenant, God will put His laws into the mind, and write them in the hearts of the people: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people, and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, for all shall know Him.

So in your religion, did Moses mass produce tablets of stone and distribute them to each and every Israelite, and those who sojourned with them? Or were the tables of stone in the Sanctuary where ONLY the Levite, by Law, could touch and read them?

Please answer this question.

On the first question, No. On the second question, I think that was the case.

And what did the Christ promise in the New Covenant? Do we still have to find a Levite Priest to receive God's Law as in the First Covenant? Or did the Christ promise a New and better way to receive God's Laws, and have our sin stoned for?

Please answer this question?

On the first question, God said "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

On the second question, No. On the third question, Jesus Christ made a once and for all atonement for the people of God. And God's law is written in their minds and hearts instead of in tables of stone. 

God not only gave to them that, but God gave them, through Moses, many other commandments, statutes, ordinances, regulations, and judgments (Exod. 20:22-23).  In Exo. 24:3-4, we read, "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.".

Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

You can see that in Exodus 24:7, Israel affirms the covenant and in verse 8, Moses formally ratified the (Mosaic) Covenant.

You preach that this was the "Mosiac" covenant, but God's Laws, judgments and Commandments existed before Israel was even born. There can be no doubt that God gave Israel His Covenant with Abraham, which would include HIS Way, HIS Judgments and HIS Justice.

By "Mosaic covenant", I refer to the covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses, at the time when God brought them out of Egypt spoken in Exodus. And that has nothing to do with the issue you are bringing up that God's Laws, judgments and Commandments existed before Israel was even born.

You said "There can be no doubt that God gave Israel His Covenant with Abraham". God did not give Israel His covenant with Abraham. God established His covenant with Abram (Abraham). He established His covenant with Isaac. He established it with Jacob (Israel). He made a covenant with the children of Israel whom He led out of Egypt at the time of Moses.

What is also a Biblical truth without doubt, is that Abraham, who Had God's Ways, judgment and justice, didn't have the Levitical Priesthood, as Levi wasn't even born yet. God "ADDED" this LAW to the existing Ways, Judgments and Justice of God that Abraham taught Isaac, and Isaac taught Jacob.

Why would you deny these Biblical truths?

Yes, there was no Levitical priesthood during the time of Abraham, but there was the priesthood order of Melchisedec.

If you know what God's covenant is with Abraham, you will find out that the "law" referred to that was added to God's covenant with Abraham, is all that which was given by God to Moses and written in the book of the Law. Paul knew of this book of the law and refers to it in his epistle to the church in Galatia.

Gal.3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do the

Now in Exodus 25-31, God gave them, through Moses, directions, instructions, ordinances, involving the Sanctuary, Ark of the Covenant, Table for the Showbread, Gold Lampstand, Tabernacle, Altar of Burnt Offering, Court of the Tabernacle, Care of the Lampstand, Garments for the Priesthood, Ephod, Breastplate, Other Priestly Garments, Consecration of the priests (Levitical priesthood), service of the priests, sign of the Sabbath. These are all part of the covenant that God made with the children of Israel during the Exodus. Are some of these not mentioned and referred to in Hebrews 8 & 9? Yes?

No, the duties of the Levitical Priest were exclusive to the Levites. No Children of Israel were allowed in the Sanctuary, nor could they even touch the Arc of the Covenant, nor the Table of Showbread, not the golden Lampstand, nor could they enter the Tabernacle, nor could they partake of the Priesthood "Works" regarding the Alter of burnt offering, nor could they wear the garments of the Priesthood, or the Ephod, or the Breastplate, nor could they consecrate the Priests, nor perform any service of the Priests.

And I never spoken about duties of the Levites. The scriptures speaks for itself to whom the office of the priesthood was given. But at least you don't deny anything else in my post.

But the Sabbath, was not among these Priesthood duties. It was directed specifically to the people. The Priest's were allowed to perform "work" on God's Sabbaths that no other Israelite were allowed to perform.

Never said anything that it was. What we can learn in those scriptures cited about the sabbath, is that one of the reasons why they were to keep God's Sabbath, is because it is a sign between God and the Israelites, and that they may know that God is Him that doth sanctify them. And that every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death. But of course you don't or won't keep, observe, and enforce this law, do you?   

And this Priesthood did not exist before Exodus. But the Very commandment of HIS Holy Sabbath references the sanctification and blessing of this judgment of God at creation. Adultery was known to Abimelech, Abraham knew of the Passover Lamb, Noah knew God's Definition of clean and unclean animals, Noah's son knew God's Laws regarding looking on the nakedness of their father.

Yes it did not. But there was a priesthood even before that. The order of Melchisedec.

What scriptures says those who lived before the Law was given to Moses knew, we should accept and believe, no more, no less. We can speculate, but not to take our speculation as though the truth is what we speculate. We are not to go beyond what is written. We must be faithful to what revelation is given us in scriptures. It is what God intended for us to know, at least in this life.

Your preaching that God's Ways, Justice, Judgments, Commandments, Statutes, and Laws didn't exist before Exodus is a false teaching. Not because I say so, but because the Word's of God says so.

Lie. I never preach such GB. And don't let your opinion appear as though it is what scriptures says.

As a side, my observation in scriptures is that, the revelation of God concerning Himself, isn't a one time thing. It is spread out throughout time and in His time. He reveals His will, commandments, laws, judgment, ordinances at many times and in various ways, according to His plan and purpose. That we have to acknowledge and be aware of. But in these last days He has spoken to us by his Son, who is the exact representation of His being, being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person. In Him, God had fully revealed Himself to man. For Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, in whom dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Must you want to know God, know Jesus Christ. For the mystery of God is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. So, must you seek wisdom, you'll find it in Jesus Christ. Must you seek knowledge, you'll find it in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. So, must you seek the way, you'll find it in Jesus Christ. Must you seek the truth, you'll find it in Jesus Christ. Must you seek life, you'll find it in Jesus Christ. Seek and you shall find, in Jesus Christ.

Not for long, the children of Israel had broken the covenant with God (Exod. 32). God's wrath was upon them who had corrupted themselves. God offered to destroy all the rebellious Israelites that day. But Moses had obtained God's promise to renew the covenant bond with Israel. In Exodus 34, God directed him to restore the covenant revelation, by having the Ten Commandments re-inscribed on two new stone tablets. You see, Israel's initial relationship with God at Sinai, which was characterized by the ten commandments, and the simple Covenant Code I had just written about in the foregoing paragraphs, is now represented by the ten commandments, other statutes, ordinances, judgments, and the complex and restrictive laws of the Code of the Priests ~ (Exod. 21-31, 34-Lev. 16).

No, Israel's relationship with God prompted God to create and give Israel a Priesthood that had never existed before then. Sin, as defined by God, was in the world in the very beginning.

Sin was not in the world in the beginning. Sin came only when Adam disobeyed God. Before that, sin was not in the world. 

As Paul explains.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Added to what? God's Ways and Judgments. Transgression of what? God's Ways and Judgments known to man since Abel gave an acceptable sacrifice to God.

Nothing new said.

Scriptures speaks of a time when the law was not given or that there was no law yet.

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 4 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Verse 4 points to that time as that from Adam until Moses.

Also, in relation to this, Paul speaks of living a time in his life without the law.

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Still in relation to this, we have scriptures speaking of people who have not the law.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

What do you say about all these scriptures that speak of an era and a people and a time in one's life, without the law? What law is referred by Paul in those scriptures?

You didn't even know God made a Covenant with Levi until I showed you the truth about this. Then you never knew God created a Priesthood on behalf of Israel, until I showed you point blank, that God did indeed make His Covenant with Levi on Israel's behalf.

Is my acknowledging of a lack of knowledge concerning God's covenant with Levi not enough that you keep pointing that out? Must I thank you again? 

If you had shown me scriptures that teach what you teach, I would certainly accept and believe said scriptures and believe as you do. But otherwise, I'll be taking your teaching as not supported by scriptures.

Each time you are being shown the truth, you tell me I am in error.

So again, I am showing you the truth of the scriptures, and you are still accusing me of being in error, completely oblivious to what has just happened to your own religious doctrines.

If you had been showing the truth, there is no reason for me to say that. But obviously you aren't showing me God's truth, but rather, your truth.

What you are showing is your truth, and scriptures which you make out to be saying your truth.

Until you can admit to the Biblical truth that God's Judgments existed before Sinai, you will never understand the Covenant that changed.

Everything of God existed even in the beginning with God. Until you learn to acknowledge that God reveals His will, commandments, laws, judgment, ordinances at many times and in various ways, according to His plan and purpose, and not a one time revelation, you will not understand the Covenant that was replaced by the new covenant in Christ Jesus.

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155128#msg1055155128 date=1579816404]

I asked you a couple of questions and asked kindly that you answer them. I ask that you answer them please.
   
So in your religion, did Moses mass produce tablets of stone and distribute them to each and every Israelite, and those who sojourned with them? Or were the tables of stone placed in the Sanctuary where ONLY the Levite, by Law, could touch and read them?

Please answer this question.

And what did the Christ promise in the New Covenant? Do we still have to find a Levite Priest to receive God's Law as in the First Covenant? Or did the Christ promise a New and better way to receive God's Laws, and have our sin stoned for?

Please answer this question?

[/quote]

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155148#msg1055155148 date=1579872328]
GB,

You believe and teach that only the Levitical priesthood regulation, law and structure, was abolished, and not the entire law written in the book of the law.

That is what Hebrews and Jer. 31 says. That the Priesthood was changed, not the entire Law. The Christ said He would write God's Law on my heart, so of course, it can not be abolished if the Christ wants me to never forget it. But the Christ also said HE, not the Levite Priest as the Priesthood Law requires, will administer God's Laws, and HE, not the Levite Priest as the Priesthood Law requires, will atone for the sins of the people.

So Yes, I believe what He said.

You also believe and teach that God's laws, statutes and commandments that He gave to the children of Israel that Moses had written in book of the law are still in effect and are the same laws, statutes and commandments given by God to Abraham.

Again, Jesus said "Think not that I came to destroy (Abolish) the Law and Prophets", so therefore, I don't think HE did.

Also, the Scriptures teach that Abraham obeyed GOD'S Commandments, Statutes, and Laws. Now I understand this couldn't possibly have included the Levitical Priesthood, because Levi wasn't even born yet. So I know for sure that this "LAW" was not part of God's Commandments, Statutes, or Laws God gave to Abraham. Paul said this Law was "ADDED" 430 years later. I have no reason to question Him in either case.

With all honesty then, can you give your answer to these simple questions:

1. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses still are in effect and should be kept and observed? Do you keep and observe them?

I strive to. I have not yet attained to the resurrection of the dead, either am I already perfect, but I press towards the mark of the High calling of Jesus Christ. Since Jesus walked in these Commandments, and I am also told to walk even as He walked, and to "Depart from iniquity" as He did, this is the race that is set before me, that I run with patience.

examples:

a). He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. b). He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

This is basically the same command. The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not smite either with my mouth or fist, whoever God gave me as parents. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

c). He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not smite a man so that he dies, but more importantly, I should not hate a brother in my heart. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

d). He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not steal or sell another human being. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

e). Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not do any servile work on God's Holy Sabbath. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

f). The man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not cheat on my wife, or lust after another man's wife in my heart. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

2. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses, the ones given to and kept and observed by Abraham?

We know that Abraham knew of the Passover Lamb, that he and others in his time knew of Adultery and were fearful to be judged by God with disobedience of this Law, that the definition of clean and unclean was known to Abraham's great grandfather Shem, that Abel knew to give an expectable sacrifice to God, that Noah's children knew not to look at the nakedness of their father. That Abraham knew God's Way, HIS Judgments, and His definition of justice, His Statutes, commandments and laws.

James said if a man breaks one of God's Laws, Commandments or statutes, he breaks them all. Therefore the same God that created and Sanctified the Holy Sabbath, also made known to Abraham HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws. This same God also gave Moses HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws.

I have no scriptural reason to assume God's Laws didn't exist before Mt. Sinai, given all this evidence. And I have no scriptural reason to assume God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws that He gave Abraham were different that God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws that HE gave to Abraham's Children, grandchildren, great grand children etc.

3. Can you give some of the statutes that God gave to Abraham which He gave also to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses

I just did.

This is easy for me to understand and believe because I know, understand and believe all the warnings and examples of religious men, who come in God's Name, to deceive people. This warning doesn't bother me as I see how valid it is when discerning the religious doctrines and traditions of the Land.

Many, who come in Christ's Name, would have me believe that Jesus came to abolish God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws. But the actual Word's of God does not bear this popular religious tradition of the land out.

There is also an almost exact example written for our admonition, of another religious voice, using some of God's Words, doing this exact same thing to decieve Eve.

And Jesus Himself, when asked about the end times warned of the following.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Notice HE could have warned of anything, Islam, Jews, Atheists, but He Didn't. Instead HE warned us about "Christians". Is there any other religious movement on the planet which meets the description Jesus gave of the deceiver in the scripture?

There are many more warnings, but the point is, why would I believe religious men, who come in Christ's name, who preach Jesus came to abolish God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws, when not only did HE warn of religious men deceiving, but said point blank "Think not that I came to destroy" God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws.

It is my understanding that there will always be these "other religious voices", it is part of our race, our test, as it was for Eve.

Matt. 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

 But if a man strives to live by Every Word of God, if he denies himself, if he "put's on" the Armor of God, and follow both His instruction, and His Example, we can overcome just as HE overcame. And if we endure to the end, "We shall be saved" as it is written.

Jesus did not come to destroy God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws. There is not one place in the entire Bible where this is taught. It is 100% ancient religious doctrines of men. He came to take over the Levitical Priesthood duties of Administering God's Laws, and atoning for the sins of the people.

HIS Words, HIS New Covenant. And I believe HIM.

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155164#msg1055155164 date=1579888817]

Gen. 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.

7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

God gave Israel HIS COVENANT that He made with Abraham. To bring His Seed into the Land. This is what the scriptures teach.

Yes, God promised Abram to give the land of Canaan to his seed in Genesis 12.

Regarding this promise, God made a covenant with Abraham particular to this.

Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
.
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18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Clearly, the seed referred to in this covenant refers to Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his posterity, those who came to Egypt and served there and were afflicted for four hundred years. These are them who later God saved from Egypt, leading them out of Egypt as was told in Exodus.

Yes, God's saving of Israel was part of His Covenant with Abraham, that is what I have been saying.
 

You said "Only the ones who obeyed Him left Egypt. Those who refused to take the Blood of the Lamb, and follow God's instructions regarding it did not leave Egypt." Well you can say that. And that might be if scriptures so tell us.

You can preach that some did not take the Blood of the Lamb and following God's instruction regarding it if you like. But it is a lie to do so.

23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

So again, those who followed Moses out of Israel, partook of the Blood of the Passover Lamb. To preach otherwise, is to preach a lie.

God promised in covenant to them all (without exception), the children of Israel, that He will deliver them out of Egypt. That is unconditional and without exception. Will not God fulfill exactly what He promised? Of course He will!

Yes, if they did not take of the Blood and apply it to their own dwelling, the curses of Egypt would not pass them over. And God did exactly what HE said He would do.

But, this was their response: Exod. 6:9 And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel: but they hearkened not unto Moses for anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage.

Because of their anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage, they heed not. But still, and we have this as what came to pass,

This is just plain deceptive Michael. The topic was about the Passover Lamb and the instructions God gave to them to be protected from the curse of Egypt..

Exodus 12:51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

And all these mixed multitude obeyed the Passover requirement. To preach they didn't is to preach a lie.

God is faithful. He fulfills His words and unconditional promise to the children of Israel to deliver them out of Egypt.

He didn't give them an unconditional Promise. The Passover represents the Lamb of God. Your preaching that those who didn't partake of the Passover were also spared is a falsehood.

This is a new low for even you.

Numb. 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

No misrepresentation there GB. That's all scriptures in the quotebox. The scriptures in the quotebox was quoted simply to show what else the covenant was about and not anything else. What you make out of citing Numbers 14, I don't know where that is coming from.

I was addressing your false preaching that obedience didn't matter to God in the Exodus. That even after the Exodus, God still required Faithfulness in His People. A faithfulness that Caleb represented, but the rest did not. A Biblical truth that you have omitted in the past couple of paragraphs.
 

That at all does not prove that the Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave Abraham, are the exact same ones God gave to the children of Israel in covenant with them.

The scriptures you quoted does not in any way say that they forgot. Rather what it says is that by reason of their bondage, they cried, and their cry came up unto God.

As is your custom, you are omitting the Biblical Fact that God knew Abraham would teach his children HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS Laws. Which He did to Isaac, who passed GOD's WAY on the Jacob, who became Israel and had 12 sons who all came to Egypt with Israel.

For you to preach that Israel didn't know the same Ways, Commandments, Judgments, Statutes, and Laws that God Gave Abraham, and didn't teach them to Joseph is foolishness.

Gen. 48: 15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

This was in Egypt some 400 years before God sent Moses to teach them God's Ways, Judgments, Statutes, Commandments and Laws that the Scriptures say God gave Abraham.


Gen. 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

This was in Egypt, spoken by Israel to the fathers of all those Children of Israel which cried out because of Bondage. "Lawgiver", "Shiloh". Surely even you must know this is speaking about Jesus.

Where is this knowledge 400 years later?

Anyway, so for you, they forgot. That nobody remembered His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, even the Levites perhaps, such as Moses and Aaron. Now forgetting would imply that they knew them, but just have forgotten of them. Yes? Yes. So, they just need to be made to remember. God, who certainly know this as He is all knowing, if this were the case, could have easily caused each one to miraculously remember. But we know that He had not done that. Instead that they will be taught of them, causing Moses to write them down and have the Levites teach the people, so they will know of them. And for sure God have a wise and good reason and purpose for that.

So why didn't the Children of Israel know 400 years later what Joseph, and Jacob, and Isaac, and Abraham knew?

Because, in the process of time, and the influence of the sinful world around them, they FORGOT HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS Commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws that God gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That you would argue over this is also foolishness.

In one of your posts, you seem to be saying that God's giving of His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, is the covenant of God with Abraham.

Now consider, when scriptures say God remembered His covenant with Abraham, you are actually saying that God remembered His Laws, Commandments and Statutes He gave Abraham. But what actually "God remembered His covenant with Abraham" refers to is this:

Exodus 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

God was not there referring to His Laws, commandments and statutes, but refers to that which He swear to Abraham, as even to Isaac, and to Jacob, as can be learned in the passage above, and that, in covenant with each one of them.

Why was the Promise given Michael.

Gen. 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

And why did God trust Abraham?

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

In what world would God not want the Children of Israel to know God's Ways, God's Judgments and Justice, God's Commandments, Statures, and Laws that Abraham obeyed which, according to God, is the very reason God heard their cries? You religious doctrines regarding God's Laws makes no sense to one who knows the scriptures.
 

Lie. I never preached that they didn't know God's Way, and judgments, because they didn't exist.

Well that's what I gather from your religious doctrine regarding this topic. So if they didn't know God's Laws because they didn't exist. Then in your religion, why didn't they know them? You said it wasn't because they forgot, calling me once again in error. Now you are saying it wasn't because they didn't exist. So if they existed, and the children didn't forget them over time, than why didn't they already know about the Passover Lamb like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

So in your religion, did Moses mass produce tablets of stone and distribute them to each and every Israelite, and those who sojourned with them? Or were the tables of stone in the Sanctuary where ONLY the Levite, by Law, could touch and read them?

Please answer this question.

On the first question, No. On the second question, I think that was the case.

So then, in the First Covenant, ONLY Levites could reveal to the people of God His Commandments. They were the only avenue available to anyone, to hear God's Word. I believe the Scriptures are clear about this.

"And what did the Christ promise in the New Covenant?"

On the first question, God said "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So then, God's Laws that were written in Stone, and protected by the Levites, would become written on the hearts of His People.

So what became obsolete then, according to this examination? Not God's Laws, they will be written on the hearts of God's People. But the Priesthood which was given the exclusive duty of administering God's Law became obsolete.

Do we still have to find a Levite Priest to receive God's Law as in the First Covenant?

"On the second question, No."

That is scripturally correct, because the Priesthood that was dedicated to perform this duty has become obsolete. But God's Laws are still administered. At least according to the Christ. It's just through a New and Better way.

Or did the Christ promise a New and better way to receive God's Laws, and have our sin stoned for?

On the third question, Jesus Christ made a once and for all atonement for the people of God. And God's law is written in their minds and hearts instead of in tables of stone.

Yes, again, scripturally correct. No more Levite to perform Priesthood "Works of the Law" for atonement of sins. This Priesthood duty has become "obsolete" as the Christ Himself atones for our sins once and for all.

So then the 2 things the Christ said He would change in the new Covenant is how God's Laws are administered, and How sins are atoned for.

But how can this be Michael? The Law of Moses says that ONLY a Levite by blood, can perform these Priesthood Duties? No other tribe was allowed to even partake of these duties that the Christ said He would take over. He wasn't a Levite.

Well as I have pointed out, Hebrews 7 answers this very question in stark and clear detail.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So then the Christ's definition of the New Covenant and Hebrews definition align perfectly. It wasn't God's Laws, Commandments, and Statutes that changed, it was the Priesthood. It wasn't God's Commandments, Laws, and Statutes which became obsolete, It was the Priesthood which administered them. The Laws of God becomes permanent fixtures on the truly repentant mind, so we will not forget them, and the Christ atones for the sins of the truly repentant, no more Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for justification of sins.

This is what the scriptures teach.

[Amo]

FALSE GOSPEL - God's moral law needs to change or be abolished for the salvation of sinners. His law is no longer a moral guide or has any authority over their lives.

TRUE GOSPEL - Sinners need to change and die to themselves becoming new creatures in Christ Jesus. Having the law of God written upon their hearts and not just in engraved upon stone. The authority of which is still their moral guide which they seek to uphold by faith in Christ the law maker and keeper, or leading them to the cross for forgiveness of their sins against it.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If we say there is no longer any law, then we say that there is no longer any sin and that we do not sin. For sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Those who do away with their sins by doing away with the law, make God a liar.

[Michael2012]

I asked you a couple of questions and asked kindly that you answer them. I ask that you answer them please.
   
So in your religion, did Moses mass produce tablets of stone and distribute them to each and every Israelite, and those who sojourned with them? Or were the tables of stone placed in the Sanctuary where ONLY the Levite, by Law, could touch and read them?

Please answer this question.

And what did the Christ promise in the New Covenant? Do we still have to find a Levite Priest to receive God's Law as in the First Covenant? Or did the Christ promise a New and better way to receive God's Laws, and have our sin stoned for?

Please answer this question?

I just did. Haven't you read it in my Reply#370?

[Michael2012]

You believe and teach that only the Levitical priesthood regulation, law and structure, was abolished, and not the entire law written in the book of the law.

That is what Hebrews and Jer. 31 says. That the Priesthood was changed, not the entire Law. The Christ said He would write God's Law on my heart, so of course, it can not be abolished if the Christ wants me to never forget it. But the Christ also said HE, not the Levite Priest as the Priesthood Law requires, will administer God's Laws, and HE, not the Levite Priest as the Priesthood Law requires, will atone for the sins of the people.

So Yes, I believe what He said.

At least I know now that you don't deny the book of the law.

But what you believe is not what Hebrews and Jer. 31 says. For while the Levitical priesthood was changed, Hebrews does not refer to it as the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant, and neither does Jer. 31 refers to that. In Jer. 31, the subject were the families of Israel, and not solely the priests. Besides, not only were the Levite priests who were unfaithful to the subject covenant by their corruption of the law, but all of Israel who had broken the law and so the covenant, all failing to continue in the covenant. Also, the new covenant which replaced the former, is a covenant, not only between God and Levi or the Levites (as you preach and believe) in behalf of all the children of Israel, but a covenant between God and the house of Israel itself. This is evident in that, in the new covenant, the Levites are no longer in covenant with God, the Levitical priesthood having been changed and done away with. For that being the case, it means God had not made a new covenant with the Levites in behalf of Israel. The Levites now, with regards the new covenant, stands to be in equal grounds with the rest of the children of Israel.

Now, in the former covenant, they had the book of the law which contains what is simply referred to as the law. This is that which the Levite priests were to administer and teach to the children of Israel. With the Levites no longer holds (with exclusivity) the office of the old Levitical priesthood in the new covenant (for this was done away with in the new covenant), the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end. In the new covenant, all that is contained in this book of the law was perfectly and fully fulfilled by and in Jesus Christ. Christ Himself had become the law, so to speak.   

You also believe and teach that God's laws, statutes and commandments that He gave to the children of Israel that Moses had written in book of the law are still in effect and are the same laws, statutes and commandments given by God to Abraham.

Again, Jesus said "Think not that I came to destroy (Abolish) the Law and Prophets", so therefore, I don't think HE did.

Also, the Scriptures teach that Abraham obeyed GOD'S Commandments, Statutes, and Laws. Now I understand this couldn't possibly have included the Levitical Priesthood, because Levi wasn't even born yet. So I know for sure that this "LAW" was not part of God's Commandments, Statutes, or Laws God gave to Abraham. Paul said this Law was "ADDED" 430 years later. I have no reason to question Him in either case.

No one is saying that Jesus destroyed the Law and Prophets.

What I gather from your second paragraph, is that, you affirm that what you teach and believe is that God's laws, statutes and commandments that He gave to the children of Israel that Moses had written in book of the law are still in effect and are the same laws, statutes and commandments given by God to Abraham.

With all honesty then, can you give your answer to these simple questions:

1. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses still are in effect and should be kept and observed? Do you keep and observe them?

I strive to. I have not yet attained to the resurrection of the dead, either am I already perfect, but I press towards the mark of the High calling of Jesus Christ. Since Jesus walked in these Commandments, and I am also told to walk even as He walked, and to "Depart from iniquity" as He did, this is the race that is set before me, that I run with patience.

In other words your answer to the question is yes. So, you believe that, those who are in the new covenant, are under the law, that is, they should keep and observe all that is written in the book of the law, including the judgments written therein, but with the exception of the laws pertaining to the Levitical priesthood. That would then mean that you should have the book of the Law with you to know exactly what is for you to keep and observe. So, do you have at least a copy of the book of the Law? If not, what then? What then are those which you strive to keep and observe?

examples:
a). He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. b). He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

This is basically the same command. The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not smite either with my mouth or fist, whoever God gave me as parents. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

Yes, every Jew of the circumcision knows that the penalty for sin is death. And this law, was intended to be kept, observed, and implemented by them. So that, when any one of them smiteth his father or his mother, when found guilty by those who were judge among them, the offender is punished by death, most often than not, by stoning.

So, if this you say is still in effect and be kept and observed, then it should be now as it was then. And so I ask, do you strive now in keeping, observing, and implementing this judgment just as it was meant to be kept, observed, and implemented then? Or do you have different judgment and penalty for that? No longer death, but maybe, a scolding, or a disinheritance, or imprisonment, or whatever you think is a just punishment. 

c). He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
d). He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
e). Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
f). The man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

The God of the Bible says the wages of transgression of God's Commandments (SIN) is death. So I was alive once, but Sin came and I died. But Jesus atoned for this sin, and told me, in scriptures, to go and "SIN" no more. To "Depart from lawlessness".  So I strive to "SIN NOT", which means I should not smite a man so that he dies, but more importantly, I should not hate a brother in my heart. This is not a burden for me, it's called righteousness.

As I said, every Jew of the circumcision knows that the penalty for sin is death. And these laws, were intended to be kept, observed, and implemented by them. So that, when any one of them violate any one of that, when found guilty by those who were judge among them, the offender is punished by death, physical death that is.

So, if you say these judgments are still in effect and be kept and observed, you must then do so now as it was then. And so I ask, do you strive now in keeping, observing, and implementing these judgments just as they were meant to be kept, observed, and implemented then? Or do you have different judgments and penalty for those? Maybe death or imprisonment to the murderer; death or imprisonment to the kidnapper for ransom; divorce or imprisonment for the adulterer/adulteress? And instead of death, what would it be for the Sabbath breaker?

2. Are the judgments that God gave to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses, the ones given to and kept and observed by Abraham?

We know that Abraham knew of the Passover Lamb, that he and others in his time knew of Adultery and were fearful to be judged by God with disobedience of this Law, that the definition of clean and unclean was known to Abraham's great grandfather Shem, that Abel knew to give an expectable sacrifice to God, that Noah's children knew not to look at the nakedness of their father. That Abraham knew God's Way, HIS Judgments, and His definition of justice, His Statutes, commandments and laws.

In other words, your answer to the question is yes.

Now to comment on what you said. You know (not we), or to be more precise, you think that Abraham knew of the Passover Lamb. No one could be absolutely certain about that.

Yes, I could agree some sinful acts were known, even perhaps to all man, even from after the sin of Adam until the giving of the Law to Moses. But what man knows about God then is so much only as that was revealed to them by God respective to their time, and according to God's will and purpose. So, with the scriptures you take reference, one can not by them, speculate and then conclude based on that, that God's charge, laws, statutes, commandments, ordinances, judgments, He gave to Abraham are the exact same charge, laws, statutes, commandments, ordinances, judgments God gave Moses which were written in the book of the Law.

You say Abraham knew God's Way. You speak of God's Way. What exactly is it? Since you speak of it, please tell us what it is.

James said if a man breaks one of God's Laws, Commandments or statutes, he breaks them all. Therefore the same God that created and Sanctified the Holy Sabbath, also made known to Abraham HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws. This same God also gave Moses HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws.

To be accurate, here's what James said "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." James was specifically referring to the "law". Is this the law God gave to Adam? No. James was a former non Christian, a Jew. So, what he is referring to as the "law" is the law which is found written in the book of the law given by God to the children of Israel through Moses. And this does not at all make it that these were the exact same charge, laws, commandments, ordinances, statutes, judgments, that were known by Abraham.

I have no scriptural reason to assume God's Laws didn't exist before Mt. Sinai, given all this evidence. And I have no scriptural reason to assume God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws that He gave Abraham were different that God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws that HE gave to Abraham's Children, grandchildren, great grand children etc.

For the nth time, nobody is saying that God's laws didn't exist before Mt. Sinai. And you need not assume. Now, let me repeat to you this then: everything of God existed even in the beginning with God. But while that is so, it does not follow that all of His laws were revealed to man from the beginning. For evidently, in scriptures, one learns that God reveals His will, commandments, laws, judgment, ordinances at many times and in various ways, according to His plan and purpose, and not a one time revelation. It was only some 2000 years ago, that God had revealed so much, and that through His Son, who is the exact representation of His being, being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person. In Jesus Christ, and not elsewhere, had God fully revealed Himself to man. For Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, in whom dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

3. Can you give some of the statutes that God gave to Abraham which He gave also to the children of Israel written in the book of the law under the covenant that God made with the children of Israel at the time of Moses

I just did.

This is easy for me to understand and believe because I know, understand and believe all the warnings and examples of religious men, who come in God's Name, to deceive people. This warning doesn't bother me as I see how valid it is when discerning the religious doctrines and traditions of the Land.

Many, who come in Christ's Name, would have me believe that Jesus came to abolish God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws. But the actual Word's of God does not bear this popular religious tradition of the land out.

Perhaps you know, understand and believe ALL the warnings and examples of religious men, who come in God's Name, to deceive people. That's good for you.

If there were those who believe that Jesus came to abolish God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws, I'm not among them GB. For this is what I preach, that Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and the prophets. If you think I am one of them, then you don't really understand all that I have been saying to you.   

There is also an almost exact example written for our admonition, of another religious voice, using some of God's Words, doing this exact same thing to decieve Eve.

And Jesus Himself, when asked about the end times warned of the following.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Notice HE could have warned of anything, Islam, Jews, Atheists, but He Didn't. Instead HE warned us about "Christians". Is there any other religious movement on the planet which meets the description Jesus gave of the deceiver in the scripture?

Verse 4-5 forms part only of Jesus' answer to the question "Tell us, when shall these things (the destruction of the temple) be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?". 

There are many more warnings, but the point is, why would I believe religious men, who come in Christ's name, who preach Jesus came to abolish God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws, when not only did HE warn of religious men deceiving, but said point blank "Think not that I came to destroy" God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws.

You shouldn't, by all means.

It is my understanding that there will always be these "other religious voices", it is part of our race, our test, as it was for Eve.

Matt. 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

 But if a man strives to live by Every Word of God, if he denies himself, if he "put's on" the Armor of God, and follow both His instruction, and His Example, we can overcome just as HE overcame. And if we endure to the end, "We shall be saved" as it is written.

Scriptures testifies, that many, since time immemorial, had strived to live by every word of God, and had evidently, each and every time failed, if not, fall short and one way or another, sinned. Nobody had overcome, except for one, the man, Jesus. So, needless to point out, it is futile to do the same as did the many in time past. Failure is what awaits the man who follow this path.

Man clearly needed to be saved. He needs a Savior. He needs Jesus Christ. Only in Christ is found the salvation of God of man.

Jesus did not come to destroy God's WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS definition of Justice, HIS commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws. There is not one place in the entire Bible where this is taught. It is 100% ancient religious doctrines of men. He came to take over the Levitical Priesthood duties of Administering God's Laws, and atoning for the sins of the people.

HIS Words, HIS New Covenant. And I believe HIM.

Yes He did not come to destroy the law and the prophets, but He came to fulfill.

[Michael2012]

FALSE GOSPEL - God's moral law needs to change or be abolished for the salvation of sinners. His law is no longer a moral guide or has any authority over their lives.

Yes, that's false. Nowhere near the truth.

TRUE GOSPEL - Sinners need to change and die to themselves becoming new creatures in Christ Jesus. Having the law of God written upon their hearts and not just in engraved upon stone. The authority of which is still their moral guide which they seek to uphold by faith in Christ the law maker and keeper, or leading them to the cross for forgiveness of their sins against it.

Also false.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If we say there is no longer any law, then we say that there is no longer any sin and that we do not sin. For sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Those who do away with their sins by doing away with the law, make God a liar.

In the new covenant, there is without a doubt God's laws, but not anymore embodied in numerous and various precepts written in stone and in a book. They are written in the minds and hearts of God's people.

A more literal translation of 1 John 3:4 is:

Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness.

By the way, what's your take on "also"? What do you think it implies?

[GB]

 author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155184#msg1055155184 date=1579945664]

That is what Hebrews and Jer. 31 says. That the Priesthood was changed, not the entire Law. The Christ said He would write God's Law on my heart, so of course, it can not be abolished if the Christ wants me to never forget it. But the Christ also said HE, not the Levite Priest as the Priesthood Law requires, will administer God's Laws, and HE, not the Levite Priest as the Priesthood Law requires, will atone for the sins of the people.

So Yes, I believe what He said.

At least I know now that you don't deny the book of the law.

How can I deny the Book of the Law when it is written on my mind?

But what you believe is not what Hebrews and Jer. 31 says. For while the Levitical priesthood was changed, Hebrews does not refer to it as the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant, and neither does Jer. 31 refers to that. In Jer. 31, the subject were the families of Israel, and not solely the priests.

It is exactly what Hebrews says.

 Can you show me one place in all of Hebrews 7-10 that speaks to any Commandment of God, other than the Priesthood, that was changed? In fact, the only reference to the "Book of the Law" in Hebrews 7-10 wasn't that HE would make them obsolete, but that HE would write them on the hearts of the truly repentant. His People.

Didn't you just learn that God Made a Covenant with Levi specifically on behalf of the families of Israel? Have you rejected this Biblical Fact again so soon?

Is. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Ask yourself, how could the shepherds have caused the families of Israel to go astray? Couldn't they just read God's Laws for themselves?

Even you know they couldn't. The "Book of the Law" was located in the Sanctuary and only the Levite Priest could go there. As a result, the only avenue the "Families of Israel" had to God's Word was the Shepherds God placed over them.

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Michael, who were the people that the Levite Priests supposed to messenger to? Was it not the Families of Israel?

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Michael, who were those the Levite Priests caused to stumbled at God's Law? Was it not the Families of Israel?

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Who was it that was Partial in God's Law. That means they picked and chose which laws to preach and which laws to reject and omit.

Jer. 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?


Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (The Priests whose duty it was to administer God's Laws to the families of Israel) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Therefore the Priesthood Changed, and the Law regarding who could become a High Priest, by necessity, also changed.

Now, instead of the Levite Priest having the exclusive duty to administer God's Laws, The Christ Himself, will administer God's Laws.

I know your religion doesn't teach this, but the Scriptures do.

Besides, not only were the Levite priests who were unfaithful to the subject covenant by their corruption of the law, but all of Israel who had broken the law and so the covenant, all failing to continue in the covenant.

Yes, the Priests, who had the exclusive duty to teach the People the truth about the God of Abraham, corrupted God's Laws and were teaching the people lies. This corruption, by the Priests, of God's Laws, led the people astray.

Also, the new covenant which replaced the former, is a covenant, not only between God and Levi or the Levites (as you preach and believe) in behalf of all the children of Israel, but a covenant between God and the house of Israel itself.

Your refusal to accept the reason for the very existence of the Levitical Priesthood in the first place is astonishing.

My belief is based on what is written. The "First Covenant", that was changed, contained Priesthood duties given exclusively to the Levites on behalf of the Families of Israel. The is the Covenant the Christ changed. This is the Covenant which grew old and is become obsolete.

God's Laws which were to be administered solely by the Levite, did not change, nor has it become obsolete. Religious men preach this in order to justify their "partiality" in God's Law.

This is evident in that, in the new covenant, the Levites are no longer in covenant with God, the Levitical priesthood having been changed and done away with. For that being the case, it means God had not made a new covenant with the Levites in behalf of Israel. The Levites now, with regards the new covenant, stands to be in equal grounds with the rest of the children of Israel.

I'm glad to see you are learning from your past mistakes regarding God's Covenant with the Levites on behalf of Israel. It wasn't too long ago you called me a liar for telling you these truths.

I find it fascinating that you have now incorporated this truth shown to you by me, into your religion, yet you still imply that I am a liar.

Yes, the Old Covenant is become obsolete. No more requirement to go to the Levite Priest to hear God's Words, and no more Levitical Priesthood "works of the law" for justification. We now have a New and Better way to know God's Laws, and we have a new and better way for our sins to be atoned for.

But what you still refuse to acknowledge is the Biblical Truth that the "Book of the Law" and what is contained therein, did not change, nor has it become obsolete. It is written on the hearts of HIS People, the truly repentant.

Now, in the former covenant, they had the book of the law which contains what is simply referred to as the law. This is that which the Levite priests were to administer and teach to the children of Israel.

 Yes, now the Christ's writes the contents of the "book of the law" on the hearts of the truly repentant.

With the Levites no longer holds (with exclusivity) the office of the old Levitical priesthood in the new covenant (for this was done away with in the new covenant), the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end.

Hogwash. This is another deception you have made up to justify your religious lifestyle. There is not one place in the Bible that teaches this.

First you call me a liar and deceiver for saying God made a Covenant with Levi. God's Word exposed you as the liar and deceiver, not me.

Then you implied again that I was a liar by telling you God's Covenant with Levi was on the behalf of the Children of Israel. God exposed once again that it was you, not me, that is deceived.

Now you are preaching that God's Purpose of the Book of the Law is done away with in the New Covenant.

Again, God's Word will exposes you as the deceiver.

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, (Book of the Law) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (That even Israel knew of)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What is troubling is that your agenda here has been from the start to convince others that God's Laws are not important, that they have changed, that they have no further purpose in the New Covenant.

And in my attempts to share with you the error in your religious teaching, you have actually taken the truth shown to you and incorporated it into your own religion against me, still implying that I am the deceiver.

This is the first time the following scriptures have really been made sense to me.

Matt. 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Thank you Jesus for giving me insight, though these discussions, as to continuing conversations with religious men who are here to do to Your Words what the Levite Priests did to your Words.

[Michael2012]

Yes, God promised Abram to give the land of Canaan to his seed in Genesis 12.

Regarding this promise, God made a covenant with Abraham particular to this.

Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
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18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Clearly, the seed referred to in this covenant refers to Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his posterity, those who came to Egypt and served there and were afflicted for four hundred years. These are them who later God saved from Egypt, leading them out of Egypt as was told in Exodus.

Yes, God's saving of Israel was part of His Covenant with Abraham, that is what I have been saying.

This portion of my post is not to say that, but to point out that God made a promise to Abraham (Gen. 12:2-3). And that, in relation to this promise, God made a covenant with Abraham. And that this covenant is what is written in the scriptures I quoted, that is, Gen. 15:13-18. And that, in this covenant, thy seed of Abraham refers to Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and his posterity, those who came to Egypt and served there and were afflicted for four hundred years.

You said "Only the ones who obeyed Him left Egypt. Those who refused to take the Blood of the Lamb, and follow God's instructions regarding it did not leave Egypt." Well you can say that. And that might be if scriptures so tell us.

You can preach that some did not take the Blood of the Lamb and following God's instruction regarding it if you like. But it is a lie to do so.

23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

So again, those who followed Moses out of Israel, partook of the Blood of the Passover Lamb. To preach otherwise, is to preach a lie.

But I don't preach such a thing. Haven't you read what's written in the quotebox?Read again, this time carefully, and try to understand what I am saying there.

That it is you who said that those who refused to take the Blood of the Lamb, and follow God's instructions regarding it did not leave Egypt. So are you now here telling yourself that you lied?

God promised in covenant to them all (without exception), the children of Israel, that He will deliver them out of Egypt. That is unconditional and without exception. Will not God fulfill exactly what He promised? Of course He will!

Yes, if they did not take of the Blood and apply it to their own dwelling, the curses of Egypt would not pass them over. And God did exactly what HE said He would do.

God's promise is " unconditional GB. Read carefully what God said:

Exod. 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

It's all God. No condition whatsoever.

But, this was their response: Exod. 6:9 And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel: but they hearkened not unto Moses for anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage.

Because of their anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage, they heed not. But still, and we have this as what came to pass,

This is just plain deceptive Michael. The topic was about the Passover Lamb and the instructions God gave to them to be protected from the curse of Egypt..

Nothing deceptive there GB. I am not in the business of deception. God is my Father, and not the father of lies. It seems you are confused. Go back to my post that you addressed and see if the topic under this segment is about the Passover Lamb GB.

Exodus 12:51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

And all these mixed multitude obeyed the Passover requirement. To preach they didn't is to preach a lie.

What mixed multitude are you talking about. Nothing is said about mixed multitude in that scripture in the quotebox GB.

God is faithful. He fulfills His words and unconditional promise to the children of Israel to deliver them out of Egypt.

He didn't give them an unconditional Promise. The Passover represents the Lamb of God. Your preaching that those who didn't partake of the Passover were also spared is a falsehood.

This is a new low for even you.

Of course He did. Read again and this time carefully, what is written in Exod. 6:5-8. You seem to doubt God's words there.

You seem to have missed something about the Passover GB. Read again and this time carefully, Exodus 12 concerning the Passover. It concerns all the firstborn only, not each and every individual. All the members of each house were to do what God instructed them to do concerning the Passover, so that, all the firstborn in the house would be spared. Else, all the firstborn in the house that did not do as God had instructed of them, will be struck dead, including all the firstborn of their livestock.

So, your preaching that those who didn't partake of the Passover were not spared is what is a false teaching. For only all the firstborn of the house who didn't were not spared in such a case.

No misrepresentation there GB. That's all scriptures in the quotebox. The scriptures in the quotebox was quoted simply to show what else the covenant was about and not anything else. What you make out of citing Numbers 14, I don't know where that is coming from.

I was addressing your false preaching that obedience didn't matter to God in the Exodus. That even after the Exodus, God still required Faithfulness in His People. A faithfulness that Caleb represented, but the rest did not. A Biblical truth that you have omitted in the past couple of paragraphs.

What false preaching are you talking about? I never preached anything of that sort GB. You lie. It's a false accusation. Why lie?

[Michael2012]

You skipped or ignored this one GB. Please kindly answer.

Concerning the covenant between God and Israel, it does not end there. God gave them His ten commandments engraved in stone (Exodus 20). And what do you think is the reason why God gave them those commandments?

For the same reason He gave His Laws, Commandments and Statutes to Abraham.

And what is that?

Also, what do you understand in Exodus 24:12 (Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.” )? The obvious: Israel knew not.

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Did Abraham teach his Children the way of the Lord?

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Now since I believe God's Word, I am sure that Abraham taught his children as God instructed. With HIS Way, and HIS Judgments, and HIS justice.

That at all does not prove that the Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave Abraham, are the exact same ones God gave to the children of Israel in covenant with them.

 
As is your custom, you are omitting the Biblical Fact that God knew Abraham would teach his children HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS Laws. Which He did to Isaac, who passed GOD's WAY on the Jacob, who became Israel and had 12 sons who all came to Egypt with Israel.

Nothing really to omit GB.

For you to preach that Israel didn't know the same Ways, Commandments, Judgments, Statutes, and Laws that God Gave Abraham, and didn't teach them to Joseph is foolishness.

Gen. 48: 15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

This was in Egypt some 400 years before God sent Moses to teach them God's Ways, Judgments, Statutes, Commandments and Laws that the Scriptures say God gave Abraham.

My contention is that, it is but pure speculation that the charge, Commandments, Judgments, Statutes, and Laws that God gave Abraham were the exact same charge, Commandments, Judgments, Statutes, and Laws that God gave the children of Israel whom He brought out of Egypt. And this is what I preach relative to this, and I repeat it here yet again, for it seems you just ignore it.

God reveals His will, commandments, laws, judgment, ordinances at many times and in various ways, according to His plan and purpose, and not a one time revelation. It was only some 2000 years ago, that God had revealed so much, and that through His Son, who is the exact representation of His being, being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person. In Jesus Christ, and not elsewhere, had God fully revealed Himself to man. For Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, in whom dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Gen. 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

This was in Egypt, spoken by Israel to the fathers of all those Children of Israel which cried out because of Bondage. "Lawgiver", "Shiloh". Surely even you must know this is speaking about Jesus.

Where is this knowledge 400 years later?

Yes that was Jacob's blessing to his son Judah.

As to your question, as I said, it is a blessing spoken unto Judah. And yes, I take it as speaking about the Messiah. As to where this knowledge is 400 years later, I don't really know and so can't say. But my speculation is that, it is with the children of Israel, especially with the house of Judah.   

Anyway, so for you, they forgot. That nobody remembered His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, even the Levites perhaps, such as Moses and Aaron. Now forgetting would imply that they knew them, but just have forgotten of them. Yes? Yes. So, they just need to be made to remember. God, who certainly know this as He is all knowing, if this were the case, could have easily caused each one to miraculously remember. But we know that He had not done that. Instead that they will be taught of them, causing Moses to write them down and have the Levites teach the people, so they will know of them. And for sure God have a wise and good reason and purpose for that.

So why didn't the Children of Israel know 400 years later what Joseph, and Jacob, and Isaac, and Abraham knew?

Because, in the process of time, and the influence of the sinful world around them, they FORGOT HIS WAYS, HIS Judgments, HIS Commandments, HIS Statutes, and HIS Laws that God gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That you would argue over this is also foolishness.

Whether they knew but forgot or they knew not, by reason that the passing on of the knowledge of it from parents to children was disrupted by reason of their bondage/slavery, are both speculations GB. But what we do know is that they are to be taught about all that is written in the book of the law of Moses. They have to be taught for them to know.

In one of your posts, you seem to be saying that God's giving of His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, is the covenant of God with Abraham.

Now consider, when scriptures say God remembered His covenant with Abraham, you are actually saying that God remembered His Laws, Commandments and Statutes He gave Abraham. But what actually "God remembered His covenant with Abraham" refers to is this:

Exodus 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the Lord.

God was not there referring to His Laws, commandments and statutes, but refers to that which He swear to Abraham, as even to Isaac, and to Jacob, as can be learned in the passage above, and that, in covenant with each one of them.

Why was the Promise given Michael.

Gen. 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Back tracking a bit, after the great flood in Noah's time, God had chosen Abraham. He had chosen him not because of anything Abraham had done, but by His grace and according to His will and purpose. God proceeded by translating His purpose to this promise spoken to Abraham which goes: "I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." As with His choosing of Abraham, His promise is independent upon anything and is by grace. If you'll look at it, such promise, while it is given to Abraham, it is really not only a blessing to Abraham, but a blessing for many.

Now, in the performance of this promise, God established His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, with Jacob, and with the children of Israel. Having said that, it gives us understanding that in the process of bringing about His purpose, God made covenant promises to Isaac, to Jacob, to the children of Israel, confirming His promise to Abraham.

So in the passage (Gen. 26:3-5) you quoted here, because Abraham obeyed His voice, and had kept His charge to him, His commandments to him, His statutes, and His laws, God established His covenant with Isaac whereby He confirms and performs the oath which He sware unto Abraham. Now, it is not as though it was to Abraham's doing and credit that God established His covenant with Isaac here. For even this was promised to Abraham beforehand (Gen. 17).   

Genesis 26:5 does not tell us what were God's charge, commandments, statutes, and laws were given to Abraham which he was said to have obeyed and kept.

And why did God trust Abraham?

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

In what world would God not want the Children of Israel to know God's Ways, God's Judgments and Justice, God's Commandments, Statures, and Laws that Abraham obeyed which, according to God, is the very reason God heard their cries? You religious doctrines regarding God's Laws makes no sense to one who knows the scriptures.

I think you don't understand what Gen. 18:18 is telling us about God. The verse is not really about Abraham, but about God.
 
This is also critical. Go and check out the Greek text of Genesis 18:19. Of the other English translations, here's one which have it nearest to a literal rendering:

Genesis 18:19 For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that Jehovah may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Another is the NIV, which rendered this verse better, in modern English:

For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him."

I suggest you have an examination of that, at this point. It is critical in your understanding. NIV have it plain and clear.

Lie. I never preached that they didn't know God's Way, and judgments, because they didn't exist.

Well that's what I gather from your religious doctrine regarding this topic. So if they didn't know God's Laws because they didn't exist. Then in your religion, why didn't they know them? You said it wasn't because they forgot, calling me once again in error. Now you are saying it wasn't because they didn't exist. So if they existed, and the children didn't forget them over time, than why didn't they already know about the Passover Lamb like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

I'll repeat what said in one of the segment above. Whether they knew but forgot or they knew not by reason that the passing on of the knowledge of it from parents to children was disrupted by reason of their bondage/slavery or for any other reason for that matter, are both speculations GB. But what we do know is that they are to be taught about all that is written in the book of the law of Moses. They have to be taught for them to know.

So in your religion, did Moses mass produce tablets of stone and distribute them to each and every Israelite, and those who sojourned with them? Or were the tables of stone in the Sanctuary where ONLY the Levite, by Law, could touch and read them?

Please answer this question.

On the first question, No. On the second question, I think that was the case.

So then, in the First Covenant, ONLY Levites could reveal to the people of God His Commandments. They were the only avenue available to anyone, to hear God's Word. I believe the Scriptures are clear about this.

.....

"And what did the Christ promise in the New Covenant?"

On the first question, God said "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

So then, God's Laws that were written in Stone, and protected by the Levites, would become written on the hearts of His People.

So what became obsolete then, according to this examination? Not God's Laws, they will be written on the hearts of God's People. But the Priesthood which was given the exclusive duty of administering God's Law became obsolete.

What does this mean "written on the hearts"?

Again, it's the covenant that was made obsolete having been replaced by a new covenant. I will not here explain again as I have already done so many times over.

Do we still have to find a Levite Priest to receive God's Law as in the First Covenant?

"On the second question, No."

That is scripturally correct, because the Priesthood that was dedicated to perform this duty has become obsolete. But God's Laws are still administered. At least according to the Christ. It's just through a New and Better way.

....

Or did the Christ promise a New and better way to receive God's Laws, and have our sin stoned for?

On the third question, Jesus Christ made a once and for all atonement for the people of God. And God's law is written in their minds and hearts instead of in tables of stone.

Yes, again, scripturally correct. No more Levite to perform Priesthood "Works of the Law" for atonement of sins. This Priesthood duty has become "obsolete" as the Christ Himself atones for our sins once and for all.

.....

So then the 2 things the Christ said He would change in the new Covenant is how God's Laws are administered, and How sins are atoned for.

It's the covenant, including everything that constitute it, that was made obsolete having been replaced by a new covenant. The former covenant was not revised or partially changed, it was replaced. Scriptures does not speak of a revised covenant but of a new covenant.

But how can this be Michael? The Law of Moses says that ONLY a Levite by blood, can perform these Priesthood Duties? No other tribe was allowed to even partake of these duties that the Christ said He would take over. He wasn't a Levite.

Well as I have pointed out, Hebrews 7 answers this very question in stark and clear detail.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

You said "The Law of Moses.....". What do you refer by that? Haven't you said the Law of Moses is the Levitical Priesthood? That would make Heb.7:12 as like saying "For the Levitical priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law (Levitical priesthood)."

What is the Book of the Law of Moses to you? What do you say is written in it?

So then the Christ's definition of the New Covenant and Hebrews definition align perfectly. It wasn't God's Laws, Commandments, and Statutes that changed, it was the Priesthood. It wasn't God's Commandments, Laws, and Statutes which became obsolete, It was the Priesthood which administered them. The Laws of God becomes permanent fixtures on the truly repentant mind, so we will not forget them, and the Christ atones for the sins of the truly repentant, no more Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for justification of sins.

This is what the scriptures teach.

I have addressed all of what you say there so many times over. It's just the same things you repeatedly say. So, I will not repeat repeating myself here.

I know no such thing as justification of sins.

[Michael2012]

At least I know now that you don't deny the book of the law.

How can I deny the Book of the Law when it is written on my mind?

That's good then, or is it? So you know them all.

Just want to share this truth:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But what you believe is not what Hebrews and Jer. 31 says. For while the Levitical priesthood was changed, Hebrews does not refer to it as the covenant that was replaced by a new covenant, and neither does Jer. 31 refers to that. In Jer. 31, the subject were the families of Israel, and not solely the priests.

It is exactly what Hebrews says.

That's what you think and say.

Can you show me one place in all of Hebrews 7-10 that speaks to any Commandment of God, other than the Priesthood, that was changed? In fact, the only reference to the "Book of the Law" in Hebrews 7-10 wasn't that HE would make them obsolete, but that HE would write them on the hearts of the truly repentant. His People.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

What law? Is that not referring to the whole of what is written in the book of the law of God, of Moses?

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What law? Is that not referring to the whole of what is written in the book of the law? Is that not the same that which is spoken in verse 11?

This verse gives us the understanding that the law can be changed. This must lead us to the right understanding of what is referred to as the law. 

Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

What Law? Is this not the Mosaic Law or Law of Moses or that which God gave to the children of Israel through Moses, which is found in the book of the law?

Hebrews 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

What Law? Is it different from that which the inspired writer of Hebrews speak of in his writings in Hebrews?

Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

What precepts? Of what Law?

Observe in this passage:

Hebrews 8: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Here, the writer was not referring to the law, the written code contained in the book of the law. Rather, in saying laws, he refers to divine principles, such as of the principle of love, of righteousness, of mercy, of faith, of compassion, of kindness, of meekness, etc. These are the laws that the writer says God will write in the minds and hearts of His people.

Think about it. In the old covenant, such laws, embodied in numerous and various precepts written in stone, in a book. In the new covenant, such laws God writes in the mind and heart of the man. In the former, such were to be taught by Levite priests to be known. In the latter, such need not be taught by no one to be known. In the former, they follow from what the book tells them what good they ought to do. In the latter, they will follow from what their mind and heart tells them what good they ought to do. In the former, they follow according to the letter. In the latter, they will follow according to the Spirit, for things such as faith, hope, love, among others, are of the spirit. Consider.

Didn't you just learn that God Made a Covenant with Levi specifically on behalf of the families of Israel? Have you rejected this Biblical Fact again so soon?

Is. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Ask yourself, how could the shepherds have caused the families of Israel to go astray? Couldn't they just read God's Laws for themselves?

Even you know they couldn't. The "Book of the Law" was located in the Sanctuary and only the Levite Priest could go there. As a result, the only avenue the "Families of Israel" had to God's Word was the Shepherds God placed over them.

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Michael, who were the people that the Levite Priests supposed to messenger to? Was it not the Families of Israel?

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Michael, who were those the Levite Priests caused to stumbled at God's Law? Was it not the Families of Israel?

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Who was it that was Partial in God's Law. That means they picked and chose which laws to preach and which laws to reject and omit.

Jer. 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

What I accept is that God had a covenant with Levi (Levites), but not the sense that, such is a covenant between God and all the children of Israel represented by Levi (Levites) and is that which is referred to as the covenant that was made old spoken in Hebrews 8. Their (Levite priests) corruption of the law, their failure to keep their duties, and failure to continue in their covenant with God, is not the sin of the whole of Israel. Though their sin of corruption, unfaithfulness, and hypocrisy, has led the children of Israel astray and away from the truth, which certainly was a big part, but still partial, of the cause of Israel's failure to continue in the covenant they have with God mediated by Moses at the time of the exodus. For their sin is simply not the sin of all Israel. All have sinned and fall short, and are under a curse. For it is written "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them"; and "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

In all this, if one come to think of it, even if they (Levite priests) had not done what they wrongly did, the law, being only a shadow and not the realities themselves, can never make the people perfect (having no more conscience of sins). For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Having said that, we absolutely need Jesus Christ. For truly, there is salvation in no other.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (The Priests whose duty it was to administer God's Laws to the families of Israel) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Therefore the Priesthood Changed, and the Law regarding who could become a High Priest, by necessity, also changed.

Now, instead of the Levite Priest having the exclusive duty to administer God's Laws, The Christ Himself, will administer God's Laws.

I know your religion doesn't teach this, but the Scriptures do.

Not without your inserts in the passage. And since we have debated so much on that, that there is nothing more to be said, I'll leave that to you.

As for me, the "them" in Hebrews 8:8 refers to all the children of Israel, as well as in the "their", "them", "they" in Hebrews 8:9-12.

Besides, not only were the Levite priests who were unfaithful to the subject covenant by their corruption of the law, but all of Israel who had broken the law and so the covenant, all failing to continue in the covenant.

Yes, the Priests, who had the exclusive duty to teach the People the truth about the God of Abraham, corrupted God's Laws and were teaching the people lies. This corruption, by the Priests, of God's Laws, led the people astray.

Agree.

How about you? Do you not agree that not only were the priest who are at fault, but also all of Israel had broken the law and the covenant?   

Also, the new covenant which replaced the former, is a covenant, not only between God and Levi or the Levites (as you preach and believe) in behalf of all the children of Israel, but a covenant between God and the house of Israel itself.

Your refusal to accept the reason for the very existence of the Levitical Priesthood in the first place is astonishing.

I don't know why you keep making such accusation and make of it a straw man. I accept and acknowledge the reason of the office of priesthood, the Levitical priesthood. Will this statement stop you from such a bad habit?

My belief is based on what is written. The "First Covenant", that was changed, contained Priesthood duties given exclusively to the Levites on behalf of the Families of Israel. The is the Covenant the Christ changed. This is the Covenant which grew old and is become obsolete.

God's Laws which were to be administered solely by the Levite, did not change, nor has it become obsolete. Religious men preach this in order to justify their "partiality" in God's Law.

MY belief is based on what is written and taught in scriptures. The covenant that was replaced by a new covenant, is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses, in the day when God led them out of Egypt, about which all are written by Moses in the book of the law, wherein is contained the law of Moses that was given by God in covenant, which includes the laws, commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgments, curses, blessings, and everything that concerns the Levitical priesthood.

The covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses, in the day when God led them out of Egypt, together with all that constitutes it, were replaced by the new covenant of God with the house of Israel whose mediator is Jesus Christ, with every part that constitutes the former made new into something far better.

That is not to mean that, the divine principles/laws found and embodied in the law of Moses was no more or put into non existence. For while the written letter in tablets or stone and in a book of the numerous and various commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgements, given in covenant by God to the children of Israel can be turned into ashes and dust, the divine principles (laws) embodied in them can never and will never be destroyed nor put into non existence. In the new covenant, these divine principles, or laws of God, will be written, in a new and better way and form, that is, in the minds and hearts of the people of God.

This is evident in that, in the new covenant, the Levites are no longer in covenant with God, the Levitical priesthood having been changed and done away with. For that being the case, it means God had not made a new covenant with the Levites in behalf of Israel. The Levites now, with regards the new covenant, stands to be in equal grounds with the rest of the children of Israel.

I'm glad to see you are learning from your past mistakes regarding God's Covenant with the Levites on behalf of Israel. It wasn't too long ago you called me a liar for telling you these truths.

I find it fascinating that you have now incorporated this truth shown to you by me, into your religion, yet you still imply that I am a liar.

Just to be clear. While I accept the existence of a covenant of God and Levi (Levites), I don't take it as being a covenant with Levi in behalf of all Israel, nor as being the covenant that is referred to in Hebrews 8:7,9,10. So, if ever I incorporate it now in my understanding of scriptures, I do so, on that note.

Yes, the Old Covenant is become obsolete. No more requirement to go to the Levite Priest to hear God's Words, and no more Levitical Priesthood "works of the law" for justification. We now have a New and Better way to know God's Laws, and we have a new and better way for our sins to be atoned for.

But what you still refuse to acknowledge is the Biblical Truth that the "Book of the Law" and what is contained therein, did not change, nor has it become obsolete. It is written on the hearts of HIS People, the truly repentant.

Yes we do differ in our understanding regarding that.

Now, in the former covenant, they had the book of the law which contains what is simply referred to as the law. This is that which the Levite priests were to administer and teach to the children of Israel.

Yes, now the Christ's writes the contents of the "book of the law" on the hearts of the truly repentant.

Not the contents GB, but His laws (laws = principles). What God writes are divine principles. I have discussed this in one of the segments above.

With the Levites no longer holds (with exclusivity) the office of the old Levitical priesthood in the new covenant (for this was done away with in the new covenant), the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end.

Hogwash. This is another deception you have made up to justify your religious lifestyle. There is not one place in the Bible that teaches this.

First you call me a liar and deceiver for saying God made a Covenant with Levi. God's Word exposed you as the liar and deceiver, not me.

Then you implied again that I was a liar by telling you God's Covenant with Levi was on the behalf of the Children of Israel. God exposed once again that it was you, not me, that is deceived.

Useless, repeated and habitual ad hominem talk.

Perhaps you want me to give you a million thanks with regards the matter of you showing me scriptures that speaks of a covenant between God and Levi (Levites) that you can't seem to bring it every time you seem like it? Just say so GB.

Now you are preaching that God's Purpose of the Book of the Law is done away with in the New Covenant.

Again, God's Word will exposes you as the deceiver.

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, (Book of the Law) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (That even Israel knew of)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

That passage goes to all GB.

Your insert in verse 15 is half truth. For the scriptures referred to by Paul there is not only the book of the law or law of Moses, but even the Prophets and the Psalms.

What is troubling is that your agenda here has been from the start to convince others that God's Laws are not important, that they have changed, that they have no further purpose in the New Covenant.

My purpose here in relation to you is to put to the test the spirit behind your doctrine. For it is not me that convicts the heart of man, but the Holy Spirit.

Besides, the straw man there who you make out to convince others that God's Laws are not important, only shows your true character. For I have been very clear, that I never said nor preach that God's Laws are not important. But to no avail, as if they fell on deaf ears, you keep accusing me of teaching that God's Laws are not important.

With a normal ability of reading and having a normal comprehension ability, one can understand what I said in my post, that the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end.

[beam]

Hi Michael, You have expressed my belief so very well in the statement below and I would like to use that statement in another forum I write on.  Would you give me permission to copy and paste it in a post on that forum?

MY belief is based on what is written and taught in scriptures. The covenant that was replaced by a new covenant, is the covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses, in the day when God led them out of Egypt, about which all are written by Moses in the book of the law, wherein is contained the law of Moses that was given by God in covenant, which includes the laws, commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgments, curses, blessings, and everything that concerns the Levitical priesthood.The covenant that God made with the children of Israel whose mediator was Moses, in the day when God led them out of Egypt, together with all that constitutes it, were replaced by the new covenant of God with the house of Israel whose mediator is Jesus Christ, with every part that constitutes the former made new into something far better.That is not to mean that, the divine principles/laws found and embodied in the law of Moses was no more or put into non existence. For while the written letter in tablets or stone and in a book of the numerous and various commandments, statutes, ordinances, judgements, given in covenant by God to the children of Israel can be turned into ashes and dust, the divine principles (laws) embodied in them can never and will never be destroyed nor put into non existence. In the new covenant, these divine principles, or laws of God, will be written, in a new and better way and form, that is, in the minds and hearts of the people of God.

[Michael2012]

Hi Michael, You have expressed my belief so very well in the statement below and I would like to use that statement in another forum I write on.  Would you give me permission to copy and paste it in a post on that forum?

Hi beam, no problem. You may do so.

[GB]

author=Michael2012 link=topic=74624.msg1055155242#msg1055155242 date=1580041085]

How can I deny the Book of the Law when it is written on my mind?

That's good then, or is it? So you know them all.

With a normal ability of reading and having a normal comprehension ability, one can understand what I said in my post, that the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end.

I just can't NOT SEE the utter hypocrisy in your religious preaching Michael.

On one hand you absolutely refuse to separate the Levitical Priesthood Law from the Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave to Abraham and then to the Children of Israel, preaching to the world that when the word LAW is used in Scriptures, it's means every Law God gave Moses, including the Levitical Priesthood.

But when the Christ says He is going to write "HIS LAWS" on the heart of His People, all the sudden your inclusiveness disappears. You then preach that this time, "LAW" doesn't mean Every Law God gave Moses. It doesn't mean all of God's Judgments. It only means whatever parts of God's Judgments align with your religious traditions.

In other words, when God's Judgments align with your religious tradition, God has written it on your heart, but when God's Judgment doesn't align with your religious tradition, it has grown old and became obsolete.

Or when the word LAW is used to describe what Abraham obeyed, all the sudden it doesn't mean "ALL" of God's Judgments and Laws God gave to Moses. Only whatever judgments you agree with.


You can not see this, even as you couldn't see the Covenant God made with Levi on behalf of the Children of Israel, nor do you understand the implication of this truth to this day.

Out of the same mouth you preach God has written His Laws, Given to Moses, on your heart,  and in the next sentence, " the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end".

And when I show you the Authors definition of the "LAW" that was changed by necessity, you have refused, in every post, to even acknowledge them.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Completely rejecting the very definition of the "LAW" that was Changed, and the detailed explanation as to why is was changed.

I only replied to you because I know there is only one spirit in this world, that has from the very beginning with Eve, tried to convince as many people as possible that  "the purpose for the book of the law had come to its end". I know you have been taken captive by it, even though you don't.

I can only show you these things, I can't make you see them.