author=beam link=topic=74624.msg1055154415#msg1055154415 date=1578708528]
Question GB, God gave Israel somewhere in the neighborhood of 613 commands.
For 25 years I studied the Bible apart from any mainstream religious influence, at least as much as is possible in our world today. What I found is that what the Scriptures teach, and what religious men teach are two different things. Which confirmed all the Prophesies, including warnings from Jesus Himself, which warn of religious men teaching differently than what God teaches. And also aligns with all the examples of religious men through out the Bible who teach differently than what God teaches.
So given that God is not a liar, at least not in my mind, there are "many" religious men who teach differently than God.
This is a Biblical, Spiritual, truth that can not be denied if one relies on the Holy Scriptures for doctrine.
You have provided a perfect example of a man who has been influenced by "other Voices" of religious men that teach falsehoods. God did not command Israel to obey 613 laws. This number was made up by religious men to make God look like an unjust God who burdens His People with countless, burdensome laws. This is done to convince people to reject God's Laws, just as the "other religious voice" convinced Eve. It is a lie, a falsehood which you promote, but can not back up.
The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did the same thing. They also taught lies about God and His Laws to convince folks to follow the religious tradition of man, which transgressed the Commandments of God.
There is no 613 laws commanded by God for Israel to follow. It is an insidious lie that you will not even try to defend, if you actually really ever looked at the website that promotes this myth.
The sad thing is that because of Pride, even when religious men look at this myth and see that they were deceived, the humiliation of admitting their error is just too much to bear for most.
My hope for you is that you will look into this myth and be corrected. Then maybe we can have an intellectually honest discussion about scriptures. Until then, this conversation is a vanity.
many of them concern the lay Israelite. Why don't you consider observing all the other commands. You pitch ten plus a form of tithing and the unclean meat law from the Book of the Law. The remainder you treat just as do most of the Christians of the World. You will not even consider that the Sinai covenant was given only to Israel and the remainder of the World has never been approached by God as a requirement.
What I pitch is what the Scriptures say, all of them, not just a few that can be wrested to promote some religious tradition of men.
"the remainder of the World has never been approached by God"
See, you are doing it again. You are promoting falsehood you heard from some religious man somewhere.
Joshua 2:9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.
10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.
The whole city of Jericho knew of the God of Abraham and His Chosen People. They could all have become Rehab's if they chose and God would have accepted them just as HIS Laws that He gave Israel promised.
Did the Jews have an advantage? Yes, much in every way, because God did give HIS Laws to them. But with many God was not well pleased, because they rebelled against Him. They didn't follow God's Laws, but rejected them and "taught for doctrines the Commandments of men". But had they listened to God and taught the truth, there would have been a lot more Rehabs.
Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non- Jews)that join themselves to the LORD
, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them
will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
But Israel refused to teach God's Way.
Ez. 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen
, whither they went, they profaned my holy name
, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen
, whither they went.
Rom. 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
It wasn't God's Law that separated the rest of the world from Him, it was the corrupt Preachers of the first covenant God made with Israel, charged with the Priesthood duties of administering God's Laws and providing for atonement of sins.
The old covenant was replaced with the new one. It happened at Calvary. The words of that covenant were replaced by the words of the new one.
Yes, and we can even go straight to the Creator of the New Covenant and hear the Christ Himself define it for us.
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
OK Beam, here it is. You can read it for yourself without any "Priest" as a middle man. Just you, and the Word of God which became flesh.
After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts,
and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour
, (Just as He said, just you and the Word's of the Christ) and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity
, and I will remember their sin no more. (No Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" needed, just you and the Christ.
The weekly Sabbath was part of the covenant that was replaced.
There, you are doing it again. Preaching things about God's Word that are untrue. You just read HIM defining HIS New Covenant. Where does He say this anywhere in His Inspired Holy Scriptures?
He doesn't Beam. Religious man does, but God's Word doesn't. Read for yourself.
There is no Sabbath command. The SDA church, Messianics, and other churches that teach it is binding on all mankind have it wrong. That is why Paul wrote for Christians to not allow law adherents to judge them for not abiding by the rules of the defunct covenant
Paul never did any such thing. Here is what Paul said.
Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men
, after the rudiments of the world
, and not after Christ
The Sabbaths of the Lord are HIS Sabbaths, created for man. They are not a creation of man, or a tradition of Man. It's in your own Bible.
16 Let no man
therefore judge you
in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday
, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Religious traditions of men are shadows of nothing.
Again, like your 613 laws myth, you are listening to "other religious voices" like Eve did. I implore you to "come out of her" and look into the scriptures your own self.
It seems like some religions are not allowing the Holy Spirit as their guide. Some prefer the defunct 10 commandments. 2Cor3:6-11
This verse doesn't say God destroyed His Laws that He promised to write on the hearts of His People. The "Glory of Moses" was done away with, "Moses Seat", the manner in which God's Law is administered. No more death to atone for sins. You are being tricked by religious men if you think this verse wipes out the New Covenant the Christ promised.
There is no Sabbath command to reject and who is creating a new one. No one is saved by keeping days.
It was Holy for Israel.
That is another myth you have learned from religious man. And have been convinced to promote it.
Is 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD
, honourable; and shalt honour him
, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
It was only Holy for Israel because it was Holy to God.
It is the Christ's Holy Feast Beam. We are told to "Be Holy for I am Holy". Jesus didn't follow His Sabbath because it was a worthless Jewish Tradition, He followed it because He was Holy, and the Sabbath is Holy unto the Lord. At least according to the Christ of the Bible.
God made the day to commemorate and remember creation and being taken out of bondage in Egypt. The new covenant has a day of remembrance also, Jesus dying for each of us. We are to commemorate communion often.
Is there a law against tradition? Where is the transgression?
If a man's religious traditions cause one to break the commandments of God, then this tradition is sin. Bible 101!
It was God's Sabbath. Jesus was the Word until His birth.
Then why do you reject His Word where His Sabbaths are concerned? He didn't, and neither did Paul.
Where there is no law there is no sin. The Law was done away. 23Cor3:verse 11. KJV
That is what the serpent convinced Eve of. Religious man's twisting of this scriptures doesn't make the Word's of the entire Bible void. Well, in man's religion it does, but the Christ teaches no such thing.
Scripture was referring to Israel not Christians.
Rom. 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Man cannot create anything. Man uses what it there that will be a benefit to mankind. Where there is no law telling us we have to worship on a certain day then we are free to assemble when convenient.
The Law says to keep His Sabbath Holy, and don't work on it. You are confusing, once again, what the Christ says and what religious man says. You are free to accept or reject His Word. And the consequences for either path is clear spelled out.
the day was Holy for Israelites. No other nation on Earth had the Sabbath.
Actually no it wasn't. It was Holy for Zechariahs and Simeon and Anna, but not the Pharisees. They "despised" God's Sabbaths, and greatly Polluted God's Sabbaths. But the Jews and Non-Jews alike who "joined themselves to the Lord", and refused to Pollute His Holy Sabbath, they will be given a name better than that of sons and daughters. At least that is what the Christ of the Bible said. It's in your own Bible.
I am sorry GB, if you are SDA you are preaching many things that are not scriptural. Care to go into all of it?
I am not SDA and neither was Jesus. But we both had respect unto the Father's Sabbaths. In my view, SDA and your religion are no different that Catholic or LDS, or AOG. They all transgress God's Commandments by their own, sometimes ancient, religious traditions. It is a mistake to think your transgressions or the falsehoods you promote and less important than theirs. As Jesus said;
Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
I have been on both sides of the issue and believe me Sabbath triers are no more blessed than anyone else.
In your and their religion this may be true. But for the Jew or non-Jew that "joins himself to the Lord", and who doesn't pollute His Holy Sabbath, they are blessed. At least according to the Christ who created His Sabbath for man.
His way is the new covenant way. A better way with better promises. Israel failed miserably at Sabbath observance.
Yes, "many were overthrown in the Wilderness" because of their rebellion, but not all. Daniel, Zechariahs, Simeon.
And yes, we no longer are forced to go to the Levite Priests to hear God's Word, and we are no longer required to take an animal sacrifice to the Levite Priest for atonement of sins, according to the Priesthood covenant God made with Israel on Mt. Sinai. A new and better way. Besides God gave Israel His Sabbath before Mt. Sinai.
I suspect you pollute it just as they did.
I would expect such a comment from you given the prophesies of religious men, and the fact that it was religious men who laid sin on the only perfect human ever born. This is why Paul taught believers not to judge them in their respect of His Sabbaths. And also not to let religious men beguile me of my reward in a voluntary humility.
I am striving to enter the narrow gate. And I believe, as does Paul, "all thing written in the Law and Prophets" that Jesus said would be here as long as this earth is here.
For instance is your mind tuned to Holy conversation and THOUGHTS for the 24 hour period. Tell me you don't think about what you are going to do the following week. Tell me you don't ogle that new car coming into the parking lot or the nice looking opposite sex.
Don't project your own sins on others. I have sin in me no doubt. I am a sinner. And Jesus created His Laws and Sabbaths for me. He created his Sabbath "FOR ME". This is not "another religious voice" saying this, but the Holy Christ.
You are doing exactly what the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did.
Matt. 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in
Daniel, Zechariahs, Simeon, the Wise Men, Anna and whole host of other examples of the faithful in the Bible didn't "fail miserably". Don't project your own lawlessness on these folks either.
God relieved Israel of the requirement at Calvary.
Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey
; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
My friend Beam, I hope with all my heart that you will stop listening to all those other religious voices out there, humble yourself to the Christ, and be a "doer" of His Sayings, and not just a hearer. Yes, religious men will make fun of you as they did Jesus and all His Prophets and Disciples, yes, you will suffer humiliation.
But the Christ of the Bible is faithful to perform His Promises. His Way is not a burden and a yoke of bondage, as we have been taught since our youth. Man's way is the path to destruction, not God's.