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Offline Hobie

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The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:18:11 »
It wasnt the apostles or from Christ, or any change in the Bible, so how did Sunday worship come from. Well history gives us a clue in this various descriptions I came across..

"On March 7, 321, Roman Emperor Constantine I decreed that dies Solis Invicti (‘sun-day,’ or Day of Sol Invictus, Roman God of the Sun) would be the Roman day of rest throughout the Roman Empire...

Though Sol Invictus (meaning ‘The unconquered Sun’) was indeed a pagan Roman God, and had been featured on Roman coins, Constantine coopted this pagan heritage along with the Judeo-Christian following of the 10 Commandments by granting a day to honor God and rest for man. As the Roman Empire gradually converted to Christianity, Sunday became the natural day for the Sabbath and rest since Romans were already accustomed to Sunday as their day off."March 7, 321: How Sunday Became the Christian Day of Rest - History and Headlines

"The early Romans initially adopted the earlier Greek Hellenistic religion that incorporated the worship of many deities, including Apollo and Helios—the sun god, who was known to the Romans as Sol. As time passed, Sol eventually took on the combined attributes of Apollo, Helios and Mithra. The early Roman Emperors promoted the rising cult of Sol Invictus with the addition of numerous new temples, statues, rites and festivals created in Sol's name. Like earlier solar deities, Sol's tasks included steering the sun-chariot across the sky each day, a reminder that this cult was a blending of monotheism and earlier paganism.

By promoting the cult and the consolidation of divine power into Sol, Roman emperors were able to please the military and also enhance their own power by identifying Sol as the source of imperial legitimacy; in some cases the emperors were able to promote themselves as the personification of Solon earth.

Constantine in the early 4th century advanced the pagan cult of Sol Invictus to the height of its popularity. Among his efforts was the minting of this special coin dedicated to Sol. Constantine also built his famous Arch in Rome, inscribed with several references to Sol Invictus, and positioned it carefully to align with the colossal 100' bronze statue of Sol that adjoined the Coliseum at the time. The rising popularity Christianity in Rome's rural areas was a factor in Constantine’s later adoption of Christianity as the Empire's official religious—a transition arguably made easier by the preceding, well accepted ideas embodied in and popularized by the cult of Sol Invictus." ..Biblical Artifacts Ancient Coins and Artifacts from the Holy Land

"Sol Invictus played a prominent role in the Mithraic mysteries and was portrayed as being equated with, allied with, or an epithet of Mithras, although the relationship between the public cults themselves is controversial. The New Testament scholar Helmut Koester, in his book, Introduction to the New Testament, says “Although Mithras appeared to be the most oriental god among the new deities, and although his cult was essentially celebrated in exclusive mystery associations—the Mithras cult was a “mystery religion” in the strict sense of the word—this god was received by the Romans without resistance, and at the end of the 3d century CE, as Sol Invictus he became the official god of the Roman state.” ..The Dying-and-Rising Gods: Sol Invictus

The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D.:
First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -
March, 321 A.D.
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)
Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1. ...Was The Seven-Day Weekly Cycle Created By Man?

The early believers kept Saturday as the Sabbath until March 7, 321 CE when Constantine passed his law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshiped the sun-god, Sol Invictus. Believers continued to keep Saturday as the Sabbath but gradually were swept aside as the day of the sun took root in the empire, and we see the start of serious oppression for the day of worship, and many believers began to be persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church for keeping the Sabbath.

Rome had been the center of many of the pagan festivals and cults, and it was held that Mithras was born on what we now call Christmas day, and his followers celebrated the spring equinox. The Sol Invictus, associated with Mithras, was one the main pagan cult the church faced and rather than reject it let it come into the church with its sun worship. The Cybele cult also flourished in Rome on today's Vatican Hill. They held that Cybele's lover Attis, was born of a virgin, died and was reborn annually. This spring festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday, rising to a crescendo after three days, in rejoicing over the resurrection. There was violent conflict on Vatican Hill in the early days of Christianity between the Jesus worshipers and pagans who quarreled over whose God was the true, and whose the imitation. Christianity came to an accommodation with the pagan Spring festival and used it to bring in unconverted pagans.

History clearly shows how the Pagan worship of Sol Invictus and festivals got into the early church and it was never sanctioned by scripture or given by Christ and the Apostles.

Transition from Pagan to Christian

'This legislation by Constantine probably bore no relation to Christianity; it appears, on the contrary, that the emperor, in his capacity of Pontifex Maximus, was only adding the day of the Sun, the worship of which was then firmly [p. 123] established in the Roman Empire, to the other ferial days of the sacred calendar…
[p. 270] What began, however, as a pagan ordinance, ended as a Christian regulation; and a long series of imperial decrees, during the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, enjoined with increasing stringency abstinence from labor on Sunday.' - Source: Hutton Webster, Rest Days, pp. 122, 123, 270. Copyright 1916 by The Macmillan Company, New York.

'The Church made a sacred day of Sunday largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.' Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnams Sons, New York. ...https://www.essene.com/Church/Sunday.htm

Offline Hobie

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:18:46 »
I was doing some work on the Greeks and how they pick up and passed on to the Romans the ancient Babylonian sun gods and system of worship, when I came across a interesting sermon that really hit the issue.

'...Pope is a shortened title for Pontifex Maximus. In Greek it means father. The Pontifex Maximus (meaning king of sacrifices or servant to the triads, as well as the "greatest bridge-maker between the gods and men") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. It's a pagan title that was incorporated from the Etruscan-Latin polytheistic culture (700 BC) who lived before the Romans. These early people (just like the Romans) had built great temples to the gods and goddess of the day. They also had a pagan triad. Eventually the Etruscans were conquered by Rome.

The title Pontifex Maximus (Pope) is mentioned numerous times by the early Catholic Church fathers (especially by Tertullian), but it was not applied to a Catholic bishop until much later on. The early Catholics said that the Pontifex Maximus was the "King of Heathendom," the evil high priest of the pagan mystery religion of Rome. This post was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. It's last use with reference to the emperors is in inscriptions of Gratian (reigned 375-383). He was then urged by the Catholic bishops to renounce the cultic Roman title, and instead grant it to their exalted leading bishop over Rome.

Pontifex Maximus is a name that's being used by the Roman Catholic Church clergy today. Though it may be abbreviated into Pope or Papa, yet it's clearly a title incorporated directly from paganism. Interesting to note that the all the pagan pontiffs or popes held that office for life. Exactly like the Catholics Popes. And their cult members met and elected a successor, who after his election became the next Pope or Pontifex Maximus (Dionys. II.22, 73). Just like the election held by the Catholic Church cardinals to choose a new Pope. The Pontifex Maximus was the guardian of the Vestal virgins. The Roman Catholic Church has simply named them Nuns instead. Many historians agree that the idea for the powers of the pope with the College of Cardinals came from the Pagan College of Pontiffs with its Sovereign Pontiff which had no doubt been in Rome from the earliest times, and must have been framed on the order of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. It's also obvious to any historian that while the Catholics have called themselves Christians, they more closely resemble the ancient pagans both in customs and names. Pope Gregory I (601 AD) said in so many words literally, "We must compromise with the pagans in order to further Christianity."...'
http://www.upublish.info/Article/The-Pope--Pontifex-Maximus-/693298

By the time of Emperor Constantine, the Christian religion received imperial sanction and the bishop of Rome became more than just another bishop, and brought in a system of worship from another origin than Christianity.

After the fall of Rome, the Bishop of Rome served as a source of authority and continuity from the old empire but Rome had also been the center of the pagan priests and their temples during the Roman Empire, and they did not go away. The Bishop of Rome, to bring in more converts brought what they were familiar with and allowed the traditional Roman mysteries and deities of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus and idol worship back into the church, along with its Pagan doctrines, graven images and ceremonies. It renamed the mother goddess and others that were worshiped and brought them into the church at Rome, then with its influence it spread into the other centers of Christianity. So next lets take a look at the Roman mysteries and the changes to the day of worship and how they were brought in.

Christians at Rome had been faithful as they were persecuted for many years but as they became accepted and persecution stop, other challenges faced them. Greek philosophy and Gnosticism had been picked up and in Rome the old beliefs and festivals were still followed by the Romans and many Christian and leaders didnt see a problem with it. The first issue began when early in the life of the Church, disputes arose as the bishop of Rome allowed the celebration of the Pasch or Passover to continue till the following Sunday so Christians could also celebrate Spring Equinox festival as they had done before.

Now the danger of allowing the Christians to join in pagan solstice celebrations was overlooked as the new pagan 'converts' joined the church and swelled the numbers under the bishop of Rome. But other Christian leaders saw the danger of worship according to the old pagan festivals and tried to stop it in what came to be known as Paschal/Easter controversies. The first recorded such controversy came to be known as the Quartodeciman controversy.

Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiii) wrote:
"A question of no small importance arose at that time [i.e. the time of Pope Victor I, about A.D. 190]. The dioceses of all Asia, according to an ancient tradition, held that the fourteenth day of the moon [of Nisan], on which day the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the lamb, should always be observed as the feast of the life-giving pasch (epi tes tou soteriou Pascha heortes), contending that the fast ought to end on that day, whatever day of the week it might happen to be. However it was not the custom of the churches in the rest of the world to end it at this point, as they observed the practice, which from Apostolic tradition has prevailed to the present time, of terminating the fast on no other day than on that of the Resurrection of our Saviour." So the bishop of Rome began the practice of fixing the celebration of Passover for Christians on Sunday and it spread through the old areas of the Empire.Polycarp the disciple of John the Apostle who was now the bishop of Smyrna, came and confronted Anicetus, the Bishop of Rome who had allow the changes in the Passover and other changes to bring in converts.According to Irenaeus, around the 150s or 160, Polycarp visited Rome to discuss the differences that existed between the other centers of Christianity in Asia and Rome "with regard to certain things" and especially about the time of the Pasch or Passover which in Rome were now the Easter festivals.

Irenaeus says that Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, observed the fourteenth day of the moon, whatever day of the week that might be, following therein the tradition which he derived from John the Apostle. Irenaeus said that on certain things the two bishops speedily came to an understanding, while as to the time of the Pasch and the change to Easter, each adhered to his own custom. Polycarp following the eastern practice of celebrating Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the day of the Jewish Passover, regardless of what day of the week it fell while the bishop of Rome let it be observed on Sunday.

So the Bishop of Rome ignore the warning and continued to allow the Passover to be observed on Sunday at the pagan Spring Equinox festival connected to the goddess Eostre the "goddess of sunrise" so this is how the Pasch was change to the festival of Easter. But not only was it just the festival but had been elevated as more pagan converts came in, they were allowed to worship on the pagan day of worship which they were used to, while Christians continued to worship on Sabbath.

When Polycarp was martyred for standing against the pagan worship, the Smyrnaean letter known as the Martyrdom of Polycarp states that Polycarp was taken on the day of the Sabbath and killed on the Great Sabbath, so we see that he observed the Sabbath. Scholar William Cave wrote, "...the Sabbath or Saturday (for so the word sabbatum is constantly used in the writings of the fathers, when speaking of it as it relates to Christians) was held by them in great veneration, and especially in the Eastern parts honoured with all the public solemnities of religion. But in the Western part of the Empire, Sunday had entered in through the back door celebration of the Pasch or Passover.

But it gets even worse, as later, one of the bishops of Rome, around 195, which some call Pope Victor I attempted to excommunicate the Christians who continued correctly to celebrate the the Pasch or Passover, turning the divergence of practice into a full-blown ecclesiastical controversy. According to Eusebius, synods were convened and letters were exchanged, but in the end, having over-stepped his mark Pope Victor was rebuked and backed down.

Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiv) notes:
"But this did not please all the bishops. And they besought him to consider the things of peace, and of neighborly unity and love. Words of theirs are extant, sharply rebuking Victor. Among them was Irenæus, who, sending letters in the name of the brethren in Gaul over whom he presided, maintained that the mystery of the resurrection of the Lord should be observed only on the Lord’s day. He fittingly admonishes Victor that he should not cut off whole churches of God which observed the tradition of an ancient custom."

So now you see where the 'Lord’s day' comes in and it wasnt from the disciple of John the Apostle or John himself.

Offline Hobie

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:19:21 »
Going to history we find a lot from scholars...

"The Babylonian system of worship has essentially been maintained even is hidden as mysterys or ceremonies or otherwise to modern day and can be seen in some form or another. The ancient Chaldeans worshipped a pantheon of male and female gods representing the sun god and there were largely three aspects to this system of sun worship, representing the father, mother, and the son. These were the god Bel or Merodach, Ninus the son, who was also worshipped as Tammuz, and the female goddess Rhea who was also worshipped as Ishtar, Astarte, or Beltis representing the mother. She was also referred to as the ‘queen of heaven’, and the ‘wrath subduer’.

The Greeks had pick up and adopt the Babylonian gods and the Greek Doura (the Greek temple in Mesopotamia) freely admitted the gods of Babylon. The foreign gods were given or take Greek names" (Tarn, ibid., pp. 301, 302).

Speaking of this Babylonian system, Dr. Cumont remarks:

'The native religions retained all their prestige and independence. In their ancient sanctuaries that took rank with the richest and most famous in the world, a powerful clergy continued to practise ancestral devotions according to barbarian rites, and frequently liturgy, everywhere performed with scrupulous respect.. (Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism, p. 22).

The Greeks picked up the Babylonian worship and carried to completion Alexander the Greats project of restoring Bel’s temple at Babylon and re-founded Nebo’s temple at Borsippa, and many pagan temples where restored as the Babylonian religion became dominant among the Greeks. The Babylonian gods took Greek names, as we see the Greek name of their idol was Zeus Olympus, but it was clearly the old Mesopotamian sun-god.

Cumont says:

"By the second century the Roman Empire annexed Mesopotamia to its rule, and the Babylonian system moved westward. Under the Empire many of the conquered people were transported to Rome as slaves and took their religions directly with them. The Chaldean astrology, of which the Syrian priests were enthusiastic disciples, had furnished them (the Romans) with the elements of a scientific theology (Cumont, Oriental Religions, p. 199). And the "Babylonian sun-worship and the mystery religions became the official religions of Rome. The Emperor Aurelian in the third century, proclaimed the sun-god as the official god of the Romans. This Sun-worship was the final form which Roman paganism assumed. In 274 A.D. the emperor Aurelian conferred on it official recognition, inspired by what he had seen at Palmyra, he founded a gorgeous temple in honour of Sol Invictus — the invincible Sun — served by priests who had precedence even over the members of the ancient Collegium pontificum; and in the following century, the Claudian emperors worshipped the almighty star (the sun) ... The invincible Sun raised to the supreme position in the divine hierarchy, peculiar protector of sovereigns and of the Empire, tends to absorb or subordinate to himself all other divinities (Cumont, Astrology and Religion, p. 133).

Even the later Roman emperors, took up the Babylonian sun god and its worship spread among the Romans.

So we see the connection to the ancient worship of the Babylonian sun god, and Easter and its true origin, and the church at Rome was at the center and the change from Sabbath to Sunday was slowly introduced at Rome about the middle of the second century, and it was not from the Apostles or scripture, but for another reason of pagan origin. It arrayed in a Christian garb the beliefs that had dominated during the Roman Empire. For example, it reinstated the ceremonies and obligations of the Collegium Pontificum and the position of Pontifex Maximus of the ancient Roman polytheistic religion and created Christian orders to replace the ancient Roman ones such as the Vestal Virgins and the flamines.

Offline Hobie

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #3 on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:19:47 »
Now lets take a look at the College of Pontiffs or Collegium Pontificum which was a body of the ancient Roman state whose members were the highest-ranking priests of the pagan religion. It consisted of the Pontifex Maximus, the Vestal Virgins, the Rex Sacrorum, and the flamines.

The Pontifex Maximus was the head and most important member of the college and held the sole power in appointing members to the other priesthoods. There were four chief colleges of priests in ancient Rome, the most illustrious of which was that of the pontifices. The others were those of the augures, the quindecimviri sacris faciundis, and the epulones. The same person could be a member of more than one of these groups, including the Pontifex Maximus, who was president of the college. By the third century B.C., the pontiffs had assumed control of the state religious system. So we see where the title "pontiff" and its position was in the pagan priesthood.

The Rex Sacrorum, during the Roman Republic, was chosen by the pontifex maximus from a list of patricians submitted by the College of Pontiffs. The rex sacrorum wore a toga, the undecorated soft "shoeboot" (calceus), and carried a ceremonial ax; as a priest of archaic Roman religion, he sacrificed capite velato, with head covered. At Rome, the Rex Sacrorum priesthood was deliberately depoliticized; the rex sacrorum was not elected, and the comitia or the legislative assemblies of the Roman Republic merely witnessed his inauguration. Like the flamen Dialis but in contrast to the pontiffs and augurs, the rex was barred from a political and military career. It is not clear if the position carried over into the church as the Cardinals from what I can see, but the early on, Cardinals wore a violet or blue cape unless granted the privilege of wearing red, scarlet garments — the blood-like red was said to symbolize a Cardinal's willingness to die for his faith. But the Rex Sacrorum priesthood were appointed to counsel the Pontiff much as Cardinals which also were appointed to counsel the Pontiff in Rome. Historically, Cardinals were the clergy of the city of Rome, serving the Bishop of Rome as the Pope, but in the twelfth century the practice of appointing ecclesiastics from outside Rome as cardinals began, with each of them being assigned a church in Rome as his titular church, or being linked with one of the suburbicarian dioceses, while still being incardinated in a diocese other than that of Rome. There was created the College of Cardinals which is a body of all cardinals of the Catholic Church and a function of the college is to advise the pope about church matters when he summons them to an ordinary consistory.

Now lets take a look at the Vestal Virgins who were priestesses of Vesta, goddess of the hearth. The College of the Vestals and its well-being was regarded as fundamental to the continuance and security of Rome, as embodied by their cultivation of the sacred fire that could not be allowed to go out. Around age 6 to 10, girls were chosen for this position and were obligated to perform the rites and obligations, including remaining chaste, for 30 years. The chief Vestal (Virgo Vestalis Maxima or Vestalium Maxima, "greatest of the Vestals") oversaw the efforts of the Vestals, and was present in the College of Pontiffs. The Vestals were freed of the usual social obligations to marry and bear children, and took a vow of chastity. Now we see where the nuns and there position and duties came from.

Then there were the flamens who were priests in charge of fifteen official cults of Roman religion, each assigned to a particular god. The three major flamens (flamines maiores) were the Flamen Dialis, the high priest of Jupiter; the Flamen Martialis, who cultivated Mars; and the Flamen Quirinalis, devoted to Quirinus. When a vacancy occurred, the persons were nominated to it and consecrated (inaugurabatur) by the Pontifex Maximus. So we see where the position and duties of the priests come from, and you can see why they were divided into orders, each devoted for a particular god.

So the bishop of Rome basically took the Collegium Pontificum and imposed it at will and the original teachings and practices of the original Christian church as depicted in the Acts of the Apostles was set aside or subtly shifted to allow the changes to take place. The bishop of Rome soon had no other bishop held at the same level, from the patriarch of Alexandria to the one in Jerusalem and he was pushing for more converts so allowing the pagan beliefs and ceremonies to come into the church.

Offline Hobie

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:20:22 »
Now the tradition the church at Rome was following did exist, but it wasnt the tradition of the Apostles as we can see from the changes. But there was a tradition, the corruption from the Gnostic sect had brought about what is called the Disciplina Arcani or Discipline of the Secret or Discipline of the Arcane, which was a restriction imposing silence upon Christians with respect to their rites and doctrines. It was a theological term used to describe the custom which came in and prevailed in the church, whereby knowledge of the more 'intimate mysteries' of the Christian religion was carefully kept from non-Christians and even from those who were undergoing instruction in the faith. The church in the early stages picked up pagan oral teachings from Greek and Hellenistic sources which formed the basis of this secret oral tradition, which in the 4th century came to be called the disciplina arcani. It is believe that it contained liturgical details and certain other pagan traditions which remain a part of Christianity, for example, the doctrine of Transubstantiation is thought to have been a part of this.

There are many sources that point out the origins of the corruption....

...the "temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns), images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." -The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman p.359

The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general and well known that Rome was called the "New Babylon." -Faith of our fathers 1917 ed. Cardinal Gibbons, p. 106

"Confiding then in the power of Christianity to resist the infection of evil, and to transmute the instruments and appendages of demon worship to an evangelical use... the rulers of the church from early times were prepared should occasion arise, to adopt, or imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace." -Development of Christian Doctrine, Cardinal Newman. p. 372

Cardinal Newman lists many examples of things of "pagan origin" which the papacy brought into the church "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen: "in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums [hermitages, monasteries and convents]; [pagan] holy-days, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images, . . . and the Kyrie Eleison."--Cardinal J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 edition, p.373 [Roman Catholic].

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].
"in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen:" "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; holy water; asylums [hermitages, monasteries and convents]; [pagan] holy-days, processions, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images, . . . and the Kyrie Eleison."--J. H. Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, 1920 edition, p.373 [Roman Catholic].

"The mighty Catholic Church was little more then the Roman Empire baptized."-- A. C, Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church, 1909 edition, p. 148. From ancient Babylon came the cult of the virgin mother-goddess, who was worshiped as the highest of gods--see S. H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition. This worship was taken over as Mary-worship by Rome. Heathen sun-worship on Sunday was likewise adopted by the Roman apostasy.

"In order to attach to Christianity great attraction in the eyes of the nobility, the priests adopted the outer garments and adornments which were used in pagan cults." -Life of Constantine, Eusabius, cited in Altai-Nimalaya, p. 94

"The Church did everything it couldto stamp out such 'pagan' rites, but had to capitualet and allow the rites to continue with only the name of the local diety changed to some Christian saint's name." -Religious Tradition and Myth. Dr. Edwin Goodenough, Professor of Religion, Harvard University. p. 56, 57

"From the foregoing, which treats merely of the more important solar festivals, it is clear that these products of paganism are as much in force at present ... as they ever were, and that Christianity countenances, and in many cases has actually adopted and practiced, pagan rites whose heathen significance is merely lost sight of because attention is not called tot the source whence these rites have sprung. So heavy was this infiltration that Sir Samuel Dill exclaims: "Christianity is only a sect of the Mithraists." -Roman Society from Nero to Marcus Aurelius, p. VII

"We know that Mithraism was a state religion of Rome at the time that the Christian church was established there. Evidently tenants of Mithraism such as Sunday worship and eating the wafer in the mass were adopted into Christianity at that time" -Jim Arrabito "666 & the Mark"

In Stanley's History, page 40: "The popes filled the place of the vacant emperors at Rome, inheriting
their power, their prestige, and their titles from PAGANISM."

"In short, sun worship, symbolically speaking, lies at the very heart of the great festivals which the Christian Church celebrates today, and these relics of heathen religion have, through the medium of their sacred rites, curiously enough blended with practices and beliefs utterly antagonistic to the spirit which prompted them." -Sun Lore of All Ages, Olcott, p. 248

"Yet the cross itself is the oldest of phallic emblems, and the lozenge-shaped windows of cathedrals are proof that the yonic symbols have survived the destructions of the pagan Mysteries. The very structure of the church itself is permeated with (sexual symbolism) phallicism. Remove from the Christian Church all emblems of Priapic origin and nothing is left..." -The secret teaching of all ages by Manley P. Hall

"When the zealots of the primitave Christian Church sought to Christianize paganism, the pagan initiates retorted with a powerful effort to paganize Christianity. The Christians failed but the pagans succeeded. With the decline of paganism the initiated pagan hierophants transferred their base of operations to the new vehicle of primitive Christianity, adopting the symbols of the new cult to conceal those eternal verities which are ever the priceless possession of the wise." -The secret teachings of all ages, Manley P. Hall p. CLXXXV

"...The world, cloaked with a form of righteousness, walked into the church. Now the work of corruption rapidly progressed. Paganism, while appearing to be vanquished, became the conqueror. Her spirit controlled the church. Her doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ." -The Great Controversy, p. 50

"The belief in miracle-working objects, talismans, amulets, and formulas was dear to Christianity, and they were received from pagan antiquity . . . The vestments of the clergy and the papal title of 'pontifex maximus' were legacies from pagan Rome. The [Catholic] Church found that rural converts still revered certain springs, wells, trees, and stones; she thought it wiser to bless these to Christian use then to break too sharply the customs of sentiment . . . Pagan festivals dear to the people, reappeared as Christian feasts, and pagan rites were transformed into Christian liturgy . . . The Christian calendar of saints replaced the Roman 'fasti' [gods]; ancient divinities dear to the people were allowed to revive under the names of 'Christian saints' . . . Gradually the tenderest features of Astarte, Cybele, Artemis, Diana, and Isis were gathered together in the worship of Mary"--Wil Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950, pp. 745-746.

Langdon tells us that Mary worship came from ancient Babylon where the virgin mother-goddess was worshiped under the name "Ishtar." Elsewhere in the Near East, the mother-goddess was called "Astarte, Ashtoreth, Persephone, Artemis, [Diana] of Ephesus, Venus, and Isis." This goddess, considered to be greater than any god, was called by these heathen the "virgin mother, merciful mother, Queen of Heaven, and my lady" [which is what "Madonna" means in Italian]. Langdon says she was often sculptured in mother-and-infant images, or as a "mater dolorom" [sorrowful mother] interceding for men with a wrathful god. And thus ancient paganism was brought into the churches and lives of Christians.--see S.H. Langdon, Semitic Mythology, 1931 edition, pp. 12-34, 108-111, 341-344. Laing mentions several other corruptions by which the mother-goddess was worshiped by heathens, that Rome adopted into Christianity: holy water, votive offerings, elevation of sacred objects [lifting of the host], the priest's bells, the decking of images, processions, festivals, prayers for the dead, the worship of relics and the statues of saints.--see Gordon J. Laing, Survivals of Roman Religion, 1931 edition, pp. 92-95, 123-131,238-241.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:20:22 »



Offline Hobie

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:22:44 »
Two dominant elements brought into Christianity from paganism by Rome were Sun worship symbols and the religious practices of ancient Babylon] "The solar theology of the Chaldaeans [Babylonians], had decisive effect . . . [upon the] final form reached by the religion of the pagan Semites, and following them, by that of the Romans when [the Roman emperor] Aurelian, the conqueror of Palmyra, had raised 'Sol Invictus' [the invincible sun-god] to the rank of supreme divinity in the Empire"--The Cambridge Ancient History, vol. 11, pp. 643, 646-647. From Palmyra he transferred to the new sanctuary the images of Helios [the sun-god] and Bel, the malaise patron god of Babylon--see Cumont, The Oriental Religions In Roman Paganism, 1911 edition, pp. 114-115, 124.

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].

"The removal of the capital of the Empire from Rome to Constantinople in 330, left the Western Church, practically free from imperial power, to develop its own form of organization. The Bishop of Rome, in the seat of the Caesars, was now the greatest man in the West, and was soon [when the barbarians over-ran the empire] forced to become the political as well as the spiritual head."--A.C. Flick, The Rise of the Mediaval Church p. 168.

"Whatever Roman elements the barbarians and Aryans left . . . [came] under the protection of the Bishop of Rome, who was the chief person there after the Emperor's disappearance . . . The Roman Church in this way privily pushed itself into the place of the Roman World-Empire, of which it is the actual continuation; the empire has not perished, but has only undergone a transformation . . . It [the Catholic Church] is a political creation, and as imposing as a World-Empire, because [it is a continuation of] the Roman Empire. The Pope, who calls himself 'King' and 'Pontifex Maximus' [the title of the Roman Emperor in the time of Christ], is Caesar's successor."--Adolf Harnack, What is Christianity? 1963, pp. 269-270.

"Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of the barbarous hordes, the Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection, and asked him to rule them; and thus, . . . commenced the temporal sovereignty of the popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the vicar of Christ took up the scepter to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages."--American Catholic Quarterly Review, April, 1911.

[Speaking of the time, about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was crumbling to pieces:] "No, the [Catholic] Church will not descend into the tomb. It will survive the Empire . . . At length a second empire will arise, and of this empire the Pope will be the master--more then this, he will be the master of Europe. He will dictate his orders to kings who will obey them"--Andrea Lagarde, The Latin Church in the Middle Ages, 1915, p. vi.

"From the foregoing, which treats merely of the more important solar festivles, it is clear that these products of paganism are as much in force at present... as they ever were, and that Christianity countenances, and in many cases has actually adopted and practiced, pagan rites whose heathen significance is merely lost sight of because attention is not called to the source whence those rites have spring. So heavy was this infiltration that Sir Samuel Dill exclaims: "Christianity is only a sect of the Mithraists." -Roman Society from Nero to Marcus Aurelius. P. viif

So we begin to grasp the great change brought about from a origin not from Christ or the apostles, but another source, just as foretold in scripture...

Daniel 7:25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #6 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 07:40:45 »
Hobie: ya gotta go back farther than you did, back to the period just after the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad.  How Rome cracked down on all things Jewish including Saturday worship.  And the church, starting to fill up with antisemetic gentile believers, did not want to be counted as Jewish so they ditched all things that looked Jewish including Hebrew liturgy and Saturday meetings.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #7 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 08:17:49 »
Dave, ya got to go back further than you did.  Try the Apostle Paul in Acts 20

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #8 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 11:21:21 »
Dave, ya got to go back further than you did.  Try the Apostle Paul in Acts 20

Very poor proof text for Sunday worship even for my tribe, the cofc.

At the very best a proof of Saturday Night worship.
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 11:24:07 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #9 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 11:26:58 »
Saturday night is the first day.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #10 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 12:41:50 »
Yes. That’s why it is at  BEST a proof of Saturday night worship. And the breaking of bread there was not necessarily a communion claimed by many. The many light in the upper room is the important clue, as in post Sabbath gathering following the Sabbath meal  and known as a Havdalah, typically with many lit candles commemorating the end of Sabbath.
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 12:48:22 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #11 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 12:58:38 »
Saturday night is the 1st day.  Scripture says they met on the first day.  I will go with scripture.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #12 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 13:54:48 »
Dave, ya got to go back further than you did.  Try the Apostle Paul in Acts 20
Eh - not really.  that was a Havdalah service, which happens at sundown Saturday evening. 

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #13 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 14:43:30 »
Nope.  No havdalah mentioned.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #14 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 14:46:43 »
Meeting on Saturday or Sunday does not matter. We are not under the law.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #15 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 15:36:34 »
Saturday night is the 1st day.  Scripture says they met on the first day.  I will go with scripture.

I am not challenging that. I am saying the REASON for their meeting was a post Sabbath celebration after sunset on Saturday the beginning of the first day of the week. I don't see a worship service with a communion. Breaking bread was likely the meal they had at that time.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #16 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 15:38:18 »
Nope.  No havdalah mentioned.

Didn't have to mention the word havdalah. It doesn't mention the word "worship" or "church service" or "communion" either. Hence, no leap to being the proof text for first day of the week worship. Upper room prepared with many lights (candles) immediately after sundown on the Sabbath, in that setting with people in that culture, definitely a havdalah, which they would have celebrated, for Paul being a Jew's Jew even in Troas.
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 15:50:11 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #17 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 15:39:43 »
Meeting on Saturday or Sunday does not matter. We are not under the law.

We are not under the penalty of the Law of sin and death. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law. He set us free from it's penalty, he paid our ransom. Without law there is no sin and no reason for Jesus to have been crucified to pay our ransom.
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 15:44:11 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #18 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 16:39:22 »
You are right, Jesus didn't abolish the law.  He fulfilled it.  That is why Christians are not under the law of Moses.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #19 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 18:18:54 »
He filled the law full since the Jewish leaders had emptied it of the Spirit of the law. He spent the entire chapter 5 of Mathew describing how he filled full that which he didn’t come to abolish but to full fill or to fill full.

In what way would you say Jesus fulfilled and not filled full the law? Was he not properly interpretting the law to them in Mathew 5, filling up what had been emptied.

One of the definitions of fulfill is to fillup. I don’t savvy any other definition in this particular context. If not, Jesus proceeded to do what be said be didn’t come to do. Not like him.

From Mathew 5:17
https://studybible.info/strongs/G4137
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 19:11:06 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #20 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 19:03:39 »
I don't understand what you are trying to say

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #21 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 19:13:10 »
Fulfill means to fill full. The law needed to be filled full since the Jewish leaders had emptied the law of the spirit of the law and they had retainednonly the letter of the law.

Jesus filled the law back up to where God intended it. What else is the theme of Mathew chapter 5? Don’t just not kill someone, don’t even be angry. Don’t just avoid the literal act of adultery, don’t even lust in your heart. Jesus raised the bar! He filled up the law as God had intended it.
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 19:22:40 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #22 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 19:25:49 »
Matthew 5 is coming to the Jewish people as the Messiah and raising the standards of keeping the law.  Something we could not keep before is even more impossible with the raised standards.

In order to be justified, Jews (or we) need Jesus because we cannot possibly keep the law.


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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #23 on: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 19:35:02 »
We never could perfectly. God told the Israelites back in the OT. Keep my commandments I will bless you. If you don’t i will punish you. Don’t you think God would have employed grace for a good hearted attempt by the Israelites, rather than total rebellion? Either they could have complied or HE would have given grace for a good hearted attempt. There is as much of God’s grace in the OT as the NT.

Was God asking the Israelites an impossibility in Deuteronomy 28?
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 03, 2021 - 20:24:23 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #24 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 08:06:27 »
Jaime, what does the NT, especially the Pauline epistles say about the law?

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #25 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 08:10:27 »
It says we are set free from the penalty of the Law. What is that penalty? Death for not keeping the Law. That's a good thing! Without law there is no sin. If no sin, Christ died in vain. May it never be. In Galatians, Paul says one doesn't have to be circumcized and become a Jew in order to be saved. Halleluyah! And no one is justified by the Law, and they NEVER were. Striving to "Keep" the sabbath doesn't justify anyone. Neither does "keeping" Sunday, and don't be deceived, there are many that hold to that. If you don't think so, try and propose a change of the worship day in your church.

Paul stressed that by faith we are Abraham's seed to the promise, not because we are under the Law or because of works of the law like circumcision. We are not. We are set free from the PENALTY of the Law. All our speeding tickets are paid, so to speak, but to be reasonable and good people, we drive pretty close to the speed limit, because it is the right thing to do, not because we fear the penalty of the law.

Would you address my question about Deuteronomy 28? That verse has always puzzled me. Did God cruelly give the Israelites an impossible command? or have we misunderstand what God was asking of them and expected of them?
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 10:53:25 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #26 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 08:56:15 »
It wasnt the apostles or from Christ, or any change in the Bible, so how did Sunday worship come from.
The religion of Jesus Christ ushered in a new dispensation~and with it, this dispensation has his life, death, and resurrection as the proof that we are now living, not under Moses, but under the religion of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.
Quote from: Paul a minister of the dispensation of the grace of God
Ephesians 3:1-12~"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him."
NT saints follow Christ, not Moses~Moses was faithful over that which God appointed him, But Christ is so much greater than Moses. We now come together and worship on the Lord's day, not on Moses' day. Of course, our worship is not limited to a single day of the week~nevertheless, there was a particular day our blessed Lord arose victorious from the dead and that day is the FIRST day of the week, not on Moses' day that he appointed for Israel, so, we honor and remember the day of the week he arose from the dead, JUST as the apostles did~and that day was the first day of the week.
Quote from:  Hobie on: Sat Jul 31, 2021 - 07:18:46
It wasnt the apostles or from Christ, or any change in the Bible, so how did Sunday worship come from.
Hobie, the Lord's day is clearly revealed to us in the scriptures, and we shall prove that once again to you, not doing so, thinking this would change your mind, but to help anyone seeking the truth on this subject.   

I'm coming back to prove what I have said in this short post....later.
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 08:58:38 by RB »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #27 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 10:20:44 »
Red, you MUST prove it WITHOUT the exceptionally poor prooftexts of Acts 20:7 and the beginning of Revelation chapter 1. Where else was the the first day of the week ever called in scripture the Lord's day? And why couldn't the Lord's day be the Day of the Lord in prophecy that John was proceeding to see in his vision of the end times as he was in the spirit? Since Jesus was the Lord of the Sabbath, that sounds like a good candidate also to me. Other than that, go for it.
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 11:26:55 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #28 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 10:33:12 »
.....Christ Jesus our Lord:  In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 
What does that even mean??  How could Jesus' faith, whatever you might think that means, possibly provide us boldness and access with confidence in Him? Our boldness and access is a non sequitur to Jesus' faith, whatever you think that is.  Clearly it is our faith in God, in Jesus as the Son of God and our Lord and Savior, that provides us with such boldness and access. One's faith in God has always been the source of such boldness and access with confidence; that was true throughout all history, in the OT and the NT.  And that is independent upon how you might think we come to that faith.

You might argue as the ISV states that it is  "....in whom [Jesus] we have boldness and confident access through his faithfulness."  But even that argument is terribly weak.

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #29 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 11:53:35 »
He doesn't need to prove it without Acts 20:7.  We are not under the law.   

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #30 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 12:32:34 »
Law has nothing to do with what he thinks he’s going to prove.
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 21:16:07 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #31 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 14:19:38 »
According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him."
I threw the phrase out there for you~and you saw it~good. Maybe later I'll give you my take on it.............. well, actually, the only meaning which can be given.

All I did was quote the scripture verbatim my friend. Surely, you do not want to labor to change God's word..... do you?
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 14:23:07 by RB »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #32 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 14:38:59 »
Red, a more accurate manuscript utilized in the NKJV and other versions is correcting the lesser reliable later manuscript used by the KJV. "IN CHRIST" is in all the translations that utilize the earlier Alexandrian manuscript. and as manuscripts go, earlier and closer to the original is better. Kinda like a copy of a copy of a copy on a xerox machine is substandard. The entire NT talks about OUR faith IN Christ. Christ's faithfulness is constant. Our faith is the receiving of his faithful gift. Without his faithfulness, our faith would mean nothing. The gift must be received.........by our faith IN Christ, and this has NOTHING to do with us saving ourselves.
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 20:35:42 by Jaime »

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #33 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 17:39:49 »
All I did was quote the scripture verbatim my friend. Surely, you do not want to labor to change God's word..... do you?
And that of course is the problem.  You quoted the KJV version of Scripture.  I could quote the scriputre verbatim also, RB; but I suspect you would not be convinced.  But what the heck, I will do it anyway:

Ephesians 3:12


(ASV)  in whom we have boldness and access in confidence through our faith in him.

(ESV)  in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.

(ISV)  in whom we have boldness and confident access through his faithfulness.

(NAS77)  in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

(NASB)  in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

(NIrV)  Through him and through faith in him we can approach God. We can come to him freely. We can come without fear.

(NIV)  In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

(NKJV)  in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

(RV)  in whom we have boldness and access in confidence through our faith in him.


Offline Jaime

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Re: The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.
« Reply #34 on: Wed Aug 04, 2021 - 21:19:12 »
Red, KJV Only is as dumb as my tribe defending acapella only singing. It’s time to lay that down.

 

     
anything