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Offline current occupant2

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The Jewish Sabbath .......
« on: Wed Jan 08, 2020 - 12:55:32 »
And the Jewish preparation day.

 If the Sabbath was given to all mankind and not just to the children of Jacob -  as the Bible clearly states in several places -  why is it that only the Jews have a preparation day for the Sabbath?


There laid they Jesus therefore because of THE JEWS' PREPARATION DAY; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
John 19:42 -


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The Jewish Sabbath .......
« on: Wed Jan 08, 2020 - 12:55:32 »

Offline beam

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #1 on: Wed Jan 08, 2020 - 15:08:03 »
And the Jewish preparation day.

 If the Sabbath was given to all mankind and not just to the children of Jacob -  as the Bible clearly states in several places -  why is it that only the Jews have a preparation day for the Sabbath?


There laid they Jesus therefore because of THE JEWS' PREPARATION DAY; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
John 19:42 -
Good thinking CO2.  John had to have known Jesus ushered in the new covenant that didn't have ritual days as a part of its rules.  John never criticized Paul for teaching that Christians are not under the Law of Moses.

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jan 08, 2020 - 16:08:34 »
And the Jewish preparation day.

 If the Sabbath was given to all mankind and not just to the children of Jacob -  as the Bible clearly states in several places -  why is it that only the Jews have a preparation day for the Sabbath?


There laid they Jesus therefore because of THE JEWS' PREPARATION DAY; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
John 19:42 -

The Sabbath, as described by the Christ who created, Sanctified and Hallowed it, is a day of no work. Therefore, there must be things prepared on the 6th day so as to concentrate on "not polluting His Holy Sabbath" on the 7th. This foreshadows our walk so as to be prepared when He comes. (ie, 10 virgins)

Is. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Passover is actually a day of preparation for the "First Day on unleavened Bread", another Holy Feast of the Christ. There were two Holy, Sanctified Sabbaths the week Jesus was crucified. One, started at sundown the day He was killed, the other after Mary purchased spices for the burial.

Also, The Sabbath's of the Holy Christ were HIS Sabbaths, not the Jews. He Gave His Sabbaths to the Jews who despised them and Polluted them. Like preaching that a man couldn't lawfully take a walk and pick a strawberry to eat on the His Holy Sabbath.






Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 11:45:08 »
The Sabbath, as described by the Christ who created, Sanctified and Hallowed it, is a day of no work. Therefore, there must be things prepared on the 6th day so as to concentrate on "not polluting His Holy Sabbath" on the 7th. This foreshadows our walk so as to be prepared when He comes. (ie, 10 virgins)

Is. 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Passover is actually a day of preparation for the "First Day on unleavened Bread", another Holy Feast of the Christ. There were two Holy, Sanctified Sabbaths the week Jesus was crucified. One, started at sundown the day He was killed, the other after Mary purchased spices for the burial.

Also, The Sabbath's of the Holy Christ were HIS Sabbaths, not the Jews. He Gave His Sabbaths to the Jews who despised them and Polluted them. Like preaching that a man couldn't lawfully take a walk and pick a strawberry to eat on the His Holy Sabbath.

Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:03:06 »
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


What work is meant in verse 9,10?

Who determines what work and is not work, relative to the Sabbath commandment?



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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:03:06 »



Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:12:38 »
And the Jewish preparation day.

 If the Sabbath was given to all mankind and not just to the children of Jacob -  as the Bible clearly states in several places -  why is it that only the Jews have a preparation day for the Sabbath?


There laid they Jesus therefore because of THE JEWS' PREPARATION DAY; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
John 19:42 -

Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Jer. 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

I don't think there is any doubt that the Jews had created their own Sabbaths and Laws. At least according to the Holy Scriptures. As far as the Christ's Sabbath's, that is, the Word of God which became Flesh, here is HIS Words.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non-Jew) that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.


Just because most of the Jews rejected the Christ's Sabbaths, and created their own version, as the Bible clearly teaches, shouldn't diminish the Christ's own Words regard His Sabbaths.




Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:21:33 »
Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Yes, It is true scripturally that the wages of sin is death. And yes, Jesus doesn't want me to die again, after He shed His own Blood to cleanses my past sins. So He writes His Laws on the hearts of the truly repentant. All I need now is belief in Him and Faith enough to follow HIS instructions. That is, not just being a hearer of His Sayings, but a "Doer".

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:33:25 »
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


What work is meant in verse 9,10?

Who determines what work and is not work, relative to the Sabbath commandment?

Why this is a fascinating thing. You are already saved, already filled with the Holy Spirit, and you claim God has already written His Laws on your heart, correcting and judging others as deceitful and ignorant of the Christ's teaching. And yet you don't know how to Honor God's Sabbaths and keep them Holy?

How can this even be?





Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:54:31 »
Yes, It is true scripturally that the wages of sin is death. And yes, Jesus doesn't want me to die again, after He shed His own Blood to cleanses my past sins. So He writes His Laws on the hearts of the truly repentant. All I need now is belief in Him and Faith enough to follow HIS instructions. That is, not just being a hearer of His Sayings, but a "Doer".

You did not answer the simple question GB.

Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

I am quite sure that you know that in this particular commandment of God that he gave to the children of Israel, that the death spoken there is physical death. Other commandment does not have with them this death penalty, such as an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:59:34 »
Quote from: Michael
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


What work is meant in verse 9,10?

Who determines what work and is not work, relative to the Sabbath commandment?
Why this is a fascinating thing. You are already saved, already filled with the Holy Spirit, and you claim God has already written His Laws on your heart, correcting and judging others as deceitful and ignorant of the Christ's teaching. And yet you don't know how to Honor God's Sabbaths and keep them Holy?

How can this even be?

Nothing but your overused AD HOMINEM weapon.

What can we expect from you here?

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 13:40:54 »
You did not answer the simple question GB.

Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

I am quite sure that you know that in this particular commandment of God that he gave to the children of Israel, that the death spoken there is physical death. Other commandment does not have with them this death penalty, such as an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

You don't understand why the scriptures were written, or their nature, or their purpose. If you did, you would not make such a foolish statement.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Will you also say this Blood and Flesh are physical?

Or do you only teach this for the commandments you have judged as unworthy of your respect.







Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 14:10:06 »
Quote from: Michael
You did not answer the simple question GB.

Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

I am quite sure that you know that in this particular commandment of God that he gave to the children of Israel, that the death spoken there is physical death. Other commandment does not have with them this death penalty, such as an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
You don't understand why the scriptures were written, or their nature, or their purpose. If you did, you would not make such a foolish statement.

That's another AD HOMINEM response.

So you know why the scriptures were written, their nature, their purpose. That's good for you, not if that's not true.

Quote from: GB
John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Will you also say this Blood and Flesh are physical?

Or do you only teach this for the commandments you have judged as unworthy of your respect.

Deviating from the question again?

Let me bring you back to the question and give you yet another opportunity to not evade.

Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Death penalty is meant there. The Jews understand this very well. They were under such judgment since the exodus. It's the same death penalty for the sin of blasphemy, like in the case of Jesus whom they crucified to death.

Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 15:54:10 »
Yes, It is true scripturally that the wages of sin is death.
Spiritually speaking, you are dumber than a telephone post. You said that in response to Michael's words:
Quote from: Michael2012 on: Today at 12:54:31
Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

I am quite sure that you know that in this particular commandment of God that he gave to the children of Israel, that the death spoken there is physical death. Other commandment does not have with them this death penalty, such as an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Pitiful!
Quote from: GB Reply #6 on: Today at 12:21:33
And yes, Jesus doesn't want me to die again, after He shed His own Blood to cleanses my past sins.
Michael would have more success dealing with my eleven years old grandson~at least he knows the difference between physical death and the second death~if he does not then I could teach him this is a few minutes~but with you, it's a losing cause.
Quote from: GB Reply #6 on: Today at 12:21:33
So He writes His Laws on the hearts of the truly repentant. All I need now is belief in Him and Faith enough to follow HIS instructions. That is, not just being a hearer of His Sayings, but a "Doer".
I have question for you and anyone else who may believe as you do~"WHY does God need to write his laws on your heart, if indeed it was YOU that repented and it was YOU that had faith enough to follow his instructions?" Under the New Covenant, we believe because of God's OATH and his PROMISES of GRACE because of his Son's obedience and faith SECURED that for HIS PEOPLE! You, sir, have run to the WRONG MOUNT for protection! Give me Mount ZION and you can have Mount Sinai.

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 16:08:53 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105259.msg1055155324#msg1055155324 date=1580155806]


Quote
So you know why the scriptures were written, their nature, their purpose. That's good for you, not if that's not true.

I know what the Bible says is the purpose and reason for the Scriptures. And I know you haven't a clue what that is, because of the foolish statements you keep making.

Quote
Deviating from the question again?

Let me bring you back to the question and give you yet another opportunity to not evade.

I asked a relevant question of you, and exposed your partiality where God's Word is concerned. The answer to the question you evaded, is my answer to your foolish question to me. In this way you will answer your own foolish question, and if you disagree with the answer, you will be arguing with yourself. So is the Blood of Christ that you must drink, physical, or Spiritual?

Quote
Is this one of the laws written in your mind and heart GB?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Death penalty is meant there. The Jews understand this very well. They were under such judgment since the exodus. It's the same death penalty for the sin of blasphemy, like in the case of Jesus whom they crucified to death.

Wow, so then in your religion, God created the Law which condemned Jesus to death. The Jews were just following God's Laws. In other words, the Pharisees were just innocent victims of unjust Laws God created, and it was their "Obedience" to them which caused the Jews to first torture, then murder Jesus.

Is this your stated position? Or is it possible that you are once again deceived, and the Jews really didn't understand the Law, or the God which created them at all?

God did not write your opinion of His Laws on my heart, nor did He write the doctrines and commandments of men the Jews taught. So before I can answer your question, it is necessary that we understand God's Laws. I think the Prophets, inspired by the Spirit of Christ, and Jesus and Paul understood them, but you and the Pharisees, by your foolish statements, not so much.

While you are digesting this, maybe you might also tell us what the Pharisees version of God's Sabbath was, including what was unlawful in their version of this law to do?

Once you have accepted what the Scriptures teach about the Jews and God's Laws, then maybe we can proceed.



Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 16:20:56 »
 author=RB link=topic=105259.msg1055155329#msg1055155329 date=1580162050]
 
Quote
I have question for you and anyone else who may believe as you do~"WHY does God need to write his laws on your heart,

Two reason right of the bat.

 One is so we don't forget them as the Children of Israel did being surrounded by false religions who didn't teach them for centuries,

and two, So we can discern truth when white washed walls like you preach Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in the Scriptures.

Because He has written them on my heart, I know and believe that God's Laws are Spiritual as both Jesus and Paul said they were.

You and Michael don't believe this? Wow, what a surprise.


Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #15 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 03:44:46 »
So you know why the scriptures were written, their nature, their purpose. That's good for you, not if that's not true.
I know what the Bible says is the purpose and reason for the Scriptures.
Claiming and saying one knows why the scriptures were written, their nature, their purpose is one thing, but telling us what they are is another.

Quote from: GB
And I know you haven't a clue what that is, because of the foolish statements you keep making.

AD HOMINEM.

Quote from: GB
I asked a relevant question of you, and exposed your partiality where God's Word is concerned. The answer to the question you evaded, is my answer to your foolish question to me. In this way you will answer your own foolish question, and if you disagree with the answer, you will be arguing with yourself.

Cheap excuses.

Quote from: GB
So is the Blood of Christ that you must drink, physical, or Spiritual?

Not physical. How does that relate to the judgement regarding the commandment on the Sabbath in Exodus 31:15? Of course, I get it. You want the death penalty that goes with the commandment to be spiritual. But we can't play around with scriptures GB. Man can fool man and deceive man, but God can't be fooled and deceived. When God gave this commandment to Israel, He meant to actually put to death the offender. While sin makes the offender spiritually dead, so to speak, the death penalty in Exodus 31:15 is without doubt and without mistake, calls for the physical death of the offender.

The commandment was given by God to Israel and states that "whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." It is clear and was clear to the Israelites that they shall put to death him who breaks the Sabbath law. To deny this is to deny the truth of God's words.

Quote from: GB
Wow, so then in your religion, God created the Law which condemned Jesus to death. The Jews were just following God's Laws. In other words, the Pharisees were just innocent victims of unjust Laws God created, and it was their "Obedience" to them which caused the Jews to first torture, then murder Jesus.

How could you even think of it that way, that the Pharisees were just innocent victims of unjust Laws God created, and it was their "Obedience" to them which caused the Jews to first torture, then murder Jesus? Unbelievable! May God have mercy for having such thoughts.

Don't you know the story, how Jesus was condemned to death by Israel? I know you do. Jesus committed no crime nor sin nor had broken the law, any law for that matter. He was framed and falsely accused by the chief priests, and elders, and all the council of Israel.

Matthew 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death. 

They falsely accused him of blasphemy that they may condemn him to death, the penalty that the law brings upon a blasphemer (Lev.24:16), that is, actual physical death.

Of course that is up to you if you believe differently.

Quote from: GB
Is this your stated position? Or is it possible that you are once again deceived, and the Jews really didn't understand the Law, or the God which created them at all?

Well, if you explain that truth away by thinking that the Jews didn't understand the law, so be it with you.

Perhaps, this too, you'll explain away just the same as you did with the commandments and judgments in Exodus 31:15 and Lev. 24:16

Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

Quote from: GB
God did not write your opinion of His Laws on my heart, nor did He write the doctrines and commandments of men the Jews taught. So before I can answer your question, it is necessary that we understand God's Laws. I think the Prophets, inspired by the Spirit of Christ, and Jesus and Paul understood them, but you and the Pharisees, by your foolish statements, not so much.

Yes He did not write anything in your heart.

Quote from: GB
While you are digesting this, maybe you might also tell us what the Pharisees version of God's Sabbath was, including what was unlawful in their version of this law to do?

Once you have accepted what the Scriptures teach about the Jews and God's Laws, then maybe we can proceed.

Since you are the supposed expert on that subject, go ahead and tell us.
   

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #16 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 03:49:44 »
I have question for you and anyone else who may believe as you do~"WHY does God need to write his laws on your heart,

Two reason right of the bat.

 One is so we don't forget them as the Children of Israel did being surrounded by false religions who didn't teach them for centuries,

and two, So we can discern truth when white washed walls like you preach Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in the Scriptures.

Because He has written them on my heart, I know and believe that God's Laws are Spiritual as both Jesus and Paul said they were.

You and Michael don't believe this? Wow, what a surprise.

I'm not surprised with your knowledge GB.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


The answer can be found there in verse 11. Do you not see the answer?


Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 04:05:20 »

Two reason right of the bat.

 One is so we don't forget them as the Children of Israel did being surrounded by false religions who didn't teach them for centuries,

and two, So we can discern truth when white washed walls like you preach Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in the Scriptures.

Because He has written them on my heart, I know and believe that God's Laws are Spiritual as both Jesus and Paul said they were.

You and Michael don't believe this? Wow, what a surprise.

You are no more than a robber and a thief of the word of God. You did not answer the "main part" of my question to you. This along with many other reasons is why I stop posting to you in other threads. Again:
Quote from: RB on: Yesterday at 15:54:10
"WHY does God need to write his laws on your heart, if indeed it was YOU that repented and it was YOU that had faith enough to follow his instructions?"
I highlighted this part of the question in red the first time I asked you, so I know that you knew that this was the main part of my question.
Quote from: GB  Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 16:20:56
So we can discern truth when white washed walls like you preach Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in the Scriptures.
Really? Cannot sinners who are dead in trespasses and sins discern this as your Soteriology in your man-made religious theology preaches this lie? So, you truly DO NOT believe that God under the New Covenant writes his precious laws on the hearts of the very elect when He by the power of the Spirit regenerates sovereignly when he wills, and whom He wills, solely by his grace without any works of the law being in consideration thereof. I KNEW that you do not and just wanted others to see the same, whether or not they do depends on just how close they are in believing the same lie that you believe and trust in.
Quote from: GB Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 16:20:56
You and Michael don't believe this? Wow, what a surprise
Michael overall did a very good job in the last thread dealing with your lies in his posts that went unanswered by you several times when he made every honest attempt to answer your posts~ an honest and good heart is part of the new creation within a child of God, having the holy laws of God written in the hearts of the child of GRACE, .....yes, in the heart of the new man which is created after the image of Jesus Christ who SECURED that new man FOR THEM by HIS OBEDIENCE and FAITH! Praise be to God alone that this is so! I know this is strange words to your unregenerated ears!  So be it~spiritual lairs and thieves of God's precious word deserve no better.
Quote from: GB  Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 16:20:56
I know and believe that God's Laws are Spiritual as both Jesus and Paul said they were.

You and Michael don't believe this? Wow, what a surprise.
Oh, Michael and I believe the same from the law of our spiritual minds and take GREAT DELIGHT IN THEM~the ONLY reason why we believe this is because of the blessed truth that God by his holy oath and his precious promises of GRACE toward us through Jesus Christ SECURED our right to eternal life by his RIGHTEOUS SON'S RIGHTEOUSNESS being freely imputeth to our account, so in due time sometime during our life from conception to death, we are born of God's Spirit because of HIS OATH and PROMISE~ just as Issac also was born, who was a perfect type of ALL of the children of God's promises. See and ponder:
Quote from: Paul
Galatians 4:22-31~"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."
Michael and myself are children of the FREE woman, you are a child of the BONDWOMAN and by your own confession, you are very proud of your mother.

One question for you: What work did Issac do to secure his birth? You have no scriptural answer other than by saying not one work of obedience from us, if you have an honest heart.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 07:41:25 by RB »

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 09:33:23 »
Michael and myself are children of the FREE woman, you are a child of the BONDWOMAN and by your own confession, you are very proud of your mother.

One question for you: What work did Issac do to secure his birth?

Yes we are RB. Thanks and praise be to God!

Galatians 4: 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

As to your question, anyone in his right mind knows the answer, Isaac did not do anything. Isaac of course does not exist yet before his birth. So, the question itself suggest the obvious answer, that is, NONE. It in fact show how foolish can one be to even think that Isaac can do something about it. Isaac can't do anything (as one dead), to secure his birth. I even feel weird in having to say and point this out.

Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #19 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 10:05:06 »
Yes we are RB. Thanks and praise be to God!
Michael, my brother, did you read and ponder Paul's words:
Quote from: Paul
Galatians 4:22-26~"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."
Maybe here I'll start another thread and consider these two covenants~ based upon Paul's teachings on the only two main covenants in the word of God.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 10:08:01 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #20 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 11:22:47 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105259.msg1055155340#msg1055155340 date=1580204686]

Quote
Not physical.

Now that wasn't so hard Michael. The Word's of Jesus here were not physical.

Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So then this means EVERY Law God gave Moses, right Michael? So then, the 4th Commandment is Spiritual, just as the command to eat the Christ's Flesh was Spiritual.

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.


So Michael, this would include those who polluted the Christ's Holy Sabbaths and were stoned to death.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So according to Paul, who we know for sure was gifted with the Holy Spirit, These Scriptures are Spiritual, and are written as examples so we would learn not to do the same things they did, and be overthrown.


Quote
The commandment was given by God to Israel and states that "whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." It is clear and was clear to the Israelites that they shall put to death him who breaks the Sabbath law. To deny this is to deny the truth of God's words.

So your ignorance regarding the very reason why these Scriptures were written is astounding. I knew you didn't know these things and that is why you keep making these absurd implications.

The implication of your obscene preaching that if I "Yield myself" to obey God where HIS Sabbaths is concerned, I am also a "debtor" to stone others to death who don't, is typical of your posts.

Of course, these example are Spiritual, and were written as examples for us. Paul said "I would not that ye should be ignorant" of these things.

So don't be ignorant Michael.

Quote
How could you even think of it that way, that the Pharisees were just innocent victims of unjust Laws God created, and it was their "Obedience" to them which caused the Jews to first torture, then murder Jesus? Unbelievable! May God have mercy for having such thoughts.


I am only going by your words Michael.

Quote
"Death penalty is meant there. The Jews understand this very well. They were under such judgment since the exodus. It's the same death penalty for the sin of blasphemy, like in the case of Jesus whom they crucified to death."

The Jews, like you, didn't understand God's Laws at all. There was not one Law of God that condemned Jesus. I see you are backtracking a little when you saw how ridiculous your statement was. Had the Jews obeyed God's Laws, instead of the Commandments of Men they taught for doctrines, they wouldn't have murdered the Christ.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Quote
Well, if you explain that truth away by thinking that the Jews didn't understand the law, so be it with you.

Again Michael, still talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you preach the Jews understood God's Laws, "Very Well" and that is why they murdered the Christ. Then when I expose the implications of this absurd statement, you act as if you didn't say it. But you turn right around and double down, and accuse me of "explaining the truth away" because I am telling you the truth, which is that the Jews DIDN'T understand God's Laws at all.

This religious tactic you employ is repeated over and over to the point where you make yourself look silly.


Quote
Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.

These things happened to them as examples and were written for my admonition, so that I would not dishonor God and HIS Sabbaths as they did. At least, that is what the Bible says.

It wasn't written so I could go around killing folks in order to be fully compliant to His Sabbath Law. How many Non-Sabbath keepers did Jesus murder Michael? Is this because He rejected GOD's LAWS? After all, it does say "all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp". In your religion, is Jesus a sinner because He kept the Sabbath but didn't stone to death those who didn't?
 
The sad thing is that you can't even see the absurdity and the hypocrisy of your religious statements here.

And I am done treating you like a little boy who doesn't know any better.


 

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #21 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 12:30:08 »
Michael, my brother, did you read and ponder Paul's words: Maybe here I'll start another thread and consider these two covenants~ based upon Paul's teachings on the only two main covenants in the word of God.

Been looking forward to that RB. It's an opportunity to show how brothers can discuss the things of the Spirit of God in a godly and loving way.

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #22 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 14:04:53 »
 author=RB link=topic=105259.msg1055155342#msg1055155342 date=1580205920]


Quote
One question for you: What work did Issac do to secure his birth? You have no scriptural answer other than by saying not one work of obedience from us, if you have an honest heart.

I believe God's Word about this issue.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;



Gen. 26:2 And the LORD appeared unto him, (Isaac) and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

3 Sojourn in this land, (Gerar) and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: (As the Lord had commanded him)

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children (Isaac) and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Once again, it seems your teaching, and what the God of the Bible teaches, are two different things..

Obedience to God is the very reason Isaac was blessed in the first place, at least according to the God of the Bible. In your religion, is God a liar because HE said He knew Abraham, and that Abraham would pass on God's Laws and Judgments, and HIS Ways to his children, including Isaac?

Or did Abraham pass God's Laws, Judgments, and Statutes along to Isaac, but Isaac rejected them because he knew he would be blessed whether he obeyed God or not?


Rom. 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.


You can't make the case that obedience had nothing to do with God's Covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob using scriptures. You might be able to find some religious preacher who created this doctrine, but if a person is seeking truth from the Scriptures, obedience to God is the only difference between Abraham and Eve.







Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #23 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 14:44:32 »
I believe God's Word about this issue.
I asked you this question:
Quote from: RB on: Today at 04:05:20
One question for you: What work did Issac do to secure his birth? You have no scriptural answer other than by saying not one work of obedience from us, if you have an honest heart.
You came back with a post that never adressed my quesiton to you which proves that God has not written his law in your mind~you were very dishonest as your custom of posting is known by.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 14:04:53
Once again, it seems your teaching, and what the God of the Bible teaches, are two different things..

Obedience to God is the very reason Isaac was blessed in the first place, at least according to the God of the Bible.
What does this have to do with my question? Nothing at all. Obedience may very well be the reason why some of God's children are blessed above other children of God....this was not my question to you~but for sure, obedience was NOT the reason that Isaac's birth took place....no  Hermeneutical Gymnastics can make your gospel work~his birth came about by God's OATH and PROMISES from God to Abraham~ PERIOD! Even as the children of Jesus Christ spiritual birth is by God's oath and his promises of GRACE to them, based upon the obedience of Jesus Christ the Righteous One. Your gospel of works stinks to the high heaven and shall be cast down to hell and perish with all those who embrace it and fight against the gospel that exalts ONE PERSON'S RIGHTEOUSNESS for the remission of sins.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 14:04:53
You can't make the case that obedience had nothing to do with God's Covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob using scriptures.
I shall take this challenge from you and we shall see.
Quote from: GB on: Today at 14:04:53
You might be able to find some religious preacher who created this doctrine, but if a person is seeking truth from the Scriptures, obedience to God is the only difference between Abraham and Eve.
Our faith and obedience is at best the EVIDENCE of our calling from God, scripturally, according to God's testimony of the truth~it is NOT the grounds for it~the only grounds for free justification of sinners sins is the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ apart of ALL WORKS.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:06:05 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #24 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 14:59:17 »

Two reason right of the bat.

 One is so we don't forget them as the Children of Israel did being surrounded by false religions who didn't teach them for centuries,

and two, So we can discern truth when white washed walls like you preach Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in the Scriptures.

Because He has written them on my heart, I know and believe that God's Laws are Spiritual as both Jesus and Paul said they were.

You and Michael don't believe this? Wow, what a surprise.


I'm not surprised with your knowledge GB.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


The answer can be found there in verse 11. Do you not see the answer?

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Who are the "They" Michael?

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Are these the ones God writes HIS Laws on their heart?

Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Are these the "they" that God's writes His Laws on their hearts? I mean they claim belief in Jesus, they give Him the credit for all their religious works. Can you answer me what is missing in their hearts?

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled (Rebellion, disobedience that comes from within) and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Are these people disobedient to God's Laws? Or another's?

Is the Sabbath of God a "good work" in your religion?

Rom. 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

What if the reason why you don't understand God's Laws, is because they are not written on your heart? What if you have been led astray by modern preachers, just as the Jews were led astray by the modern preachers of His time?

What if it is religious doctrines and traditions of men that is written on your heart, and that is why you reject so many of HIS Judgments?

What if the same thing that happened to EVE, also happened to you? That is, first you are convinced that you are already gifted with eternal life, already saved as the serpent deceived Eve. Then you were convinced by an "other religious voice" that God's Commandments make you blind, and that you can not truly "SEE" unless you reject this judgment of God or that judgment of God?

Maybe that's why you don't believe God's Law is Spiritual. Maybe that is why you don't know about the Covenant God made with Levi. Maybe that is why you reject so many of His Judgments?

And if a person knows these things because God has written HIS Laws on their heart, should they not make every effort to help a brother snared by the same religious men that the Christ warned of over, and over and over and over and over?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Verse 10 and 11 clearly answer some questions. But they present some as well.


« Last Edit: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:22:59 by GB »

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #25 on: Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58 »
 author=RB link=topic=105259.msg1055155377#msg1055155377 date=1580244272]
Quote
I asked you this question:You came back with a post that never adressed my quesiton to you which proves that God has not written his law in your mind~you were very dishonest as your custom of posting is known by. What does this have to do with my question? Nothing at all. Obedience may very well be the reason why some of God's children are blessed above other children of God....this was not my question to you~but for sure, obedience was NOT the reason was Isaac's birth took place....no  Hermeneutical Gymnastics can make your gospel work~his birth came about by God's OATH and PROMISES from God to Abraham~ PERIOD!

Red, seriously.

God Promised to give Abraham a son because of Abraham's obedience. Had Abraham been like those of Sodom, would He have given him a son and blessed his generations after him?

I even posted where God explains "WHY" He gave Abraham Children.

Gen. 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

This was even before Abraham had any Children.

Now come on Red, surely even you must understand the truth of Isaac's existence. No child ever born creates itself. But God said HE gave Abraham a child because He knows Abraham will teach his children God's Laws, Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and ways.

Why is this truth so controversial to you?


Quote
Even as the children of Jesus Christ spiritual birth is by God's oath and his promises of GRACE to them, based upon the obedience of Jesus Christ the Righteous One. Your gospel of works stinks to the high heaven and shall be cast down to hell and perish with all those who embrace it and fight against the gospel that exalts ONE PERSON'S RIGHTEOUSNESS for the remission of sins. I shall take this challenge from you and we shall see. Our faith and obedience is at best the EVIDENCE of our calling from God, scripturally, according to God's testimony of the truth~it is NOT the grounds for it~the only grounds for free justification of sinners sins is the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ apart of ALL WORKS.

It is the Christ's own Words that stink to you.

His promise to Abraham carries on to this day. Now there are "MANY" who come in Christ's Name, who preach that they are "Children of the Promise", just as there were religious men in Jesus time who preach the same.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

So the "Gospel of works" that Jesus is clearly teaching here, is the stink that you despise. It is the obedience Abraham honored God with that resulted in the birth Isaac and the blessings God promised him and his children after him, that you despise. And why did God give Abraham a child? "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment". Which Isaac did, and so did Jacob.

This is the truth of the scriptures which stinks to you.


My God is no respecter of person's Red. He calls who He calls. And He lays out HIS Path just as He did to Eve and Abraham. "Life and Death"! And we are to make a choice. Either HIM, or "other religious voices". EVE chose the "other religious voice", Abraham chose obedience. Eve chose death, Abraham chose life.

Religious voices have been working to convince folks that God's Laws are "Beggarly Elements" since the very first recorded deception. First, men are deceived into believing that they are already saved, already gifted with eternal life, as the serpent convinced Eve. Then they are deceived into believing God's Laws are "Beggarly Elements", as the serpent also convinced Eve.

 You have been snared to further this deception, and are upset with me because God's Word, written on my heart, has shown it to me.

I know offenses must come, so you will most likely continue to promote these falsehoods. But I am also obligated to point out these falsehoods, or at least open up conversations to discuss them, so that others might see and consider.





Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #26 on: Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 03:43:41 »

Now that wasn't so hard Michael. The Word's of Jesus here were not physical.

Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

So then this means EVERY Law God gave Moses, right Michael? So then, the 4th Commandment is Spiritual, just as the command to eat the Christ's Flesh was Spiritual.

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.


So Michael, this would include those who polluted the Christ's Holy Sabbaths and were stoned to death.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So according to Paul, who we know for sure was gifted with the Holy Spirit, These Scriptures are Spiritual, and are written as examples so we would learn not to do the same things they did, and be overthrown.

The implication of your obscene preaching that if I "Yield myself" to obey God where HIS Sabbaths is concerned, I am also a "debtor" to stone others to death who don't, is typical of your posts.

Of course, these example are Spiritual, and were written as examples for us. Paul said "I would not that ye should be ignorant" of these things.

Yes Paul said, "the law is spiritual but I am carnal, sold under sin." Do you know what Paul meant to say by that?

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Do you have the spiritual understanding of that commandment? One has to know what Paul meant by "the law is spiritual". Do you not still talk about the Sabbath in the carnal sense, treating it as being on a specific day of the week and according to specific regulations? That was how it was before Christ to the children of Israel, according to the law. Nothing new then, if that is still the case now, to those who take the law and keep it to the letter.

Scriptures also says that the law is but a shadow and not the reality. Can you tell us what that means to you?

Is not the law a shadow of which the body is Christ? That sure tells a lot. The law is but a shadow and Christ the reality. What do you think becomes of the shadow when the reality had come? What becomes of darkness when the light had come? Is it not overtaken and vanishes away? Is not Christ the fulfillment of the law? Is not Christ the end of the law?       

If the law written in stone, is but a shadow and not the reality, why do you then take said law to be that which is written by God in the minds and hearts of His people in the new covenant? So that, for example, you take the written commandment in Exodus 31:15, or perhaps the ten commandments written in Exodus 20, to be that which are written in your mind and heart. So what do you have in your mind and heart?

You speak of scriptures in 1 Cor.10, which speaks about the past experience of Israel with God. What Paul said of them is that, such things spoken in those scriptures had happened unto Israel for examples, and are written for our admonition. While in them is embodied spiritual lessons, they aren't spiritual events but are actual material and real experiences and events. Much in the same sense concerning the written law that God gave Israel. That while the law is spiritual, it is embodied in various and numerous practical material commandments, ordinances, regulations, judgments involving the physical body, the flesh, of man ~ works of the law.

Note: AD HOMINEMs skipped.

Quote from: GB
The Jews, like you, didn't understand God's Laws at all. There was not one Law of God that condemned Jesus. I see you are backtracking a little when you saw how ridiculous your statement was. Had the Jews obeyed God's Laws, instead of the Commandments of Men they taught for doctrines, they wouldn't have murdered the Christ.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

That's your opinion. And I perfectly understand why.

I backtracked to remind you of the truth concerning Jesus' crucifixion and death, and not what you make of it to be. You don't seem to believe that Jesus was falsely accused of being guilty of the sin of blasphemy. Well,...   

Are you implying that the commandment and judgment concerning the sin of blasphemy is the commandment of men? Are you suggesting that such commandment is not good and holy and not among those given by God to Israel?

Quote from: GB
Again Michael, still talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you preach the Jews understood God's Laws, "Very Well" and that is why they murdered the Christ.

AD HOMINEM omitted.

Not so GB. It's a matter of comprehension and attitude of the heart.

Apparently, there is a misrepresentation of what I said. What I said is "Death penalty is meant there. The Jews understand this very well. They were under such judgment since the exodus. It's the same death penalty for the sin of blasphemy, like in the case of Jesus whom they crucified to death." So, it's about the death penalty GB.

Quote from: GB
Quote from: Bible
Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
These things happened to them as examples and were written for my admonition, so that I would not dishonor God and HIS Sabbaths as they did. At least, that is what the Bible says.

It wasn't written so I could go around killing folks in order to be fully compliant to His Sabbath Law. How many Non-Sabbath keepers did Jesus murder Michael? Is this because He rejected GOD's LAWS? After all, it does say "all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp". In your religion, is Jesus a sinner because He kept the Sabbath but didn't stone to death those who didn't?

AD HOMINEM omitted.

Perhaps, you take those things as examples for your admonition, so that you would not dishonor God and HIS Sabbaths as they did. That's good. But you are evading the truth there. Those scriptures proves that the death penalty that comes with the commandment to Israel regarding the Sabbath, is one that is real and practical.

And of course, you should not go around killing folks in order to be fully compliant to His Sabbath Law. You are not even an Israelite, a Levite at that, or are you? There were in Israel, at the old covenant time, who administer the Law given to them, such as this one concerning the Sabbath. They are the ones given the authority and sit in authority on what to do about such cases.

You asked "How many Non-Sabbath keepers did Jesus murder Michael? Is this because He rejected GOD's LAWS?"

None. Do you know why? Not that He rejected God's law GB. Or not that the law does not really mean what it says, when it said "The man shall be surely put to death", and that what it really means is spiritual death as you make of it to be. I have just shown you in Numbers 15:32-36, what God meant by it. Reject or accept that, that is yours to make.

Then why? Because as Jesus himself said "the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

You asked "is Jesus a sinner because He kept the Sabbath but didn't stone to death those who didn't?"

No, Jesus is not a sinner. I had already explained why in the paragraphs above why He didn't stone them.

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #27 on: Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 05:42:38 »
Quote from: Michael
I'm not surprised with your knowledge GB.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


The answer can be found there in verse 11. Do you not see the answer?

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Who are the "They" Michael?

You ask this questions as if you haven't read the post wherein I discussed that. But before I go into that yet again, let me bring you right back to the issue at hand.

The issue comes from RB's question to you, "WHY does God need to write his laws on your heart?"

Your answer:

One is so we don't forget them as the Children of Israel did being surrounded by false religions who didn't teach them for centuries,

and two, So we can discern truth when white washed walls like you preach Paul called God's Commandments "Beggarly Elements" in the Scriptures.

My comment:

The answer can be found there in Hebrews 8:11. So, pointing it out here, it is that so that all shall know God.

Now to your side question, "Who are the "They" Michael?" The "them" in Hebrews 8:8 refers to all the children of Israel, as well as in the "their", "them", "they" in Hebrews 8:9-12. I know you take it differently, and no need for you to explain. We just have to leave it at that since we have debated far too much on that already. 

Quote from: GB
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Are these the ones God writes HIS Laws on their heart?

No. They are hypocrites.

Quote from: GB
Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Are these the "they" that God's writes His Laws on their hearts? I mean they claim belief in Jesus, they give Him the credit for all their religious works. Can you answer me what is missing in their hearts?

No they are not. Jesus was talking about false prophets in those passage, who come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.

Quote from: GB
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled (Rebellion, disobedience that comes from within) and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Are these people disobedient to God's Laws? Or another's?

They are hypocrites.

Quote from: GB
Is the Sabbath of God a "good work" in your religion?

Good, if with and by faith is done unto the Lord.

Quote from: GB
Rom. 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

What if the reason why you don't understand God's Laws, is because they are not written on your heart? What if you have been led astray by modern preachers, just as the Jews were led astray by the modern preachers of His time?

Don't worry, that is not the case with me.

Quote from: GB
What if it is religious doctrines and traditions of men that is written on your heart, and that is why you reject so many of HIS Judgments?

Don't worry, that is not the case with me.

Quote from: GB
What if the same thing that happened to EVE, also happened to you? That is, first you are convinced that you are already gifted with eternal life, already saved as the serpent deceived Eve. Then you were convinced by an "other religious voice" that God's Commandments make you blind, and that you can not truly "SEE" unless you reject this judgment of God or that judgment of God?

Don't worry, that is the case with me as with Eve.

If you are that worried, perhaps you can first start asking those to yourself.

Quote from: GB
Maybe that's why you don't believe God's Law is Spiritual. Maybe that is why you don't know about the Covenant God made with Levi. Maybe that is why you reject so many of His Judgments?

Oh I do believe the law is spiritual GB. For you to even think that I don't tells me about your ability to read and comprehend what I am saying, if not, about your mind and heart.

Quote from: GB
And if a person knows these things because God has written HIS Laws on their heart, should they not make every effort to help a brother snared by the same religious men that the Christ warned of over, and over and over and over and over?

Depends what "these things' you are referring to.

Quote from: GB
Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Verse 10 and 11 clearly answer some questions. But they present some as well.

....

Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #28 on: Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 06:26:10 »
God Promised to give Abraham a son because of Abraham's obedience. Had Abraham been like those of Sodom, would He have given him a son and blessed his generations after him?

Not so.

God, by His grace and not by any works Abram had done, have chosen Abram and gave these promises:

Gen. 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


And when Abram came to the land of promise, that is, Canaan, God appeared again unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land (Gen.12:7).

A son, that is a seed, even at this point was in view be given to Abraham, who didn't have one at this point, which later was revealed to be a son born of his wife Sara, that is, Isaac. And that was not because of anything or any work that Abraham had done, but because of God's will and purpose.

Quote from: GB
I even posted where God explains "WHY" He gave Abraham Children.

Gen. 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

This was even before Abraham had any Children.

Yes, and I have addressed that already in one of my post in the other thread, which, if I'm not mistaken, you just skipped and ignored.

I quote:

Quote from: Michael
Go and check out the Greek text of Genesis 18:19. Of the other English translations, here's one which have it nearest to a literal rendering:

Genesis 18:19 For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that Jehovah may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Another is the NIV, which rendered this verse better, in modern English:

For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him."

I suggest you have an examination of that, at this point. It is critical in your understanding. NIV have it plain and clear.

Have you done that already? I guess not.

Gen. 18:19 does not say what you made of it to say. What it speaks about pertains to the truth that God had chosen Abram and to what end.

Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #29 on: Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 09:06:54 »
Red, seriously.
I should be saying those very words to you since you have not as of yet directly answer my question~but I wait and deal with this later since you made a statement that will again let me confront you with the the same question.
Quote from: GB Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 16:21:58
God Promised to give Abraham a son because of Abraham's obedience. Had Abraham been like those of Sodom, would He have given him a son and blessed his generations after him?
GB, The only person I know of in the word of God that God gave a son based on their prayer and obedience was Hannah when he gave her Samuel~ I cannot think of another one right off of the top of my head. Hannah's womb was not dead as Sarah's womb was~Abraham's wife was past childbearing age. God had to work a miracle by his power in order for Sarah to give birth to a PROMISED SEED through whom Christ would come. Abraham's obedience was not the reason why Isaac was conceived and born to Sarah and Abraham. He was conceived and born by the power of the Spirit of God just like every elect child of Jesus Christ who was dead in trespasses and sins. I could say so much more but enough for now on this point.
Quote from: GB Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 16:21:58
I even posted where God explains "WHY" He gave Abraham Children.

Gen. 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

This was even before Abraham had any Children.
Really, before he had ANY CHILDREN? How about Ismael recorded for us in Genesis 16? Not only that, but Abraham had six more sons later on after Sarah's death.
Quote from: GB Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 16:21:58
Now come on Red, surely even you must understand the truth of Isaac's existence.
I most certainly do and it is recorded for us in Galatians four. Abraham, the father of the faithful and the illustrious hero of Jews, had two principal sons. Paul ignored Keturah’s six sons, for they did not affect his argument concerning the TWO COVENANTS and how each of his two primary sons represented the two main covenants taught in the holy scriptures~the manner in which each birth took place beautifully represents the nature of the two covenants upon which men profess to believe how eternal life is obtained in this world.  We hold fast that justification of a sinner is by GRACE ALONE through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ apart from all energy of the flesh or works performed by the flesh. Just as God rejected Ismael who was born after the flesh, or by the energy of Abraham's flesh through a fruitful womb of his slave/bondwoman.
Quote from: GB Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 16:21:58
No child ever born creates itself. But God said HE gave Abraham a child because He knows Abraham will teach his children God's Laws, Commandments, Statutes, Judgments and ways.
God made a promise to Abraham way before we knew anything of Abraham, other than he came from a land where they worship other gods.
Quote from: Joshua
Joshua 24:2,3~"And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac."
Abraham was no different than his father's UNTIL God called him ALONE to go unto a promised land that he would give him and HIS SEED which was CHRIST as we know from the NT.
Quote from: Isaiah
Isaiah 51:2~"Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
I could add more but enough to get my point across. What could be said of all of the faithful recorded in the scriptures could be said of children of God in our day as well.

I have a meeting and will come back to finish. 
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 15:02:46 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #30 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 03:53:22 »
It is the Christ's own Words that stink to you.
GB, you remind me of Job's three friends.
Quote from: From the Spirit of God concerning Elihu
Job 32:3~"Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job."
You say that and not proving your case against me or any other person, only kindles the wrath of God, and Spirit-filled men and women toward you.
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
His promise to Abraham carries on to this day.
No one would deny that truth in the sense in which it is intended to be understood which you have no clue.
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

So the "Gospel of works" that Jesus is clearly teaching here, is the stink that you despise.
As Michael would say to you and rightly so: "Note: AD HOMINEMs skipped."
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
It is the obedience Abraham honored God with that resulted in the birth Isaac and the blessings God promised him and his children after him, that you despise. And why did God give Abraham a child? "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment". Which Isaac did, and so did Jacob.

This is the truth of the scriptures which stinks to you.
GB, Again Ismael was born BEFORE Isaac, so he had a son and that son was through his lack of trust and came about through him HELPING GOD to keep his oath and promises of grace to Abraham! The same today is this seen by all who add the works of the law/flesh so that they can glory in their flesh as though they lend God a helping hand in their salvation, thinking that God needed their help and this is seen in a wide scope from many different religious sects in Mystery Babylon. Selah
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
And why did God give Abraham a child?
THROUGH SARAH dead womb? And why did he allow Hagar to have Ismael? We have our answers in Galatians chapter four, Mr. GB! So that ALL may see that ONLY the children of God's oath and promises are the true heir's of the world to come, with and THROUGH Jesus Christ his Righteous Son!
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
My God is no respecter of person's Red.
In one biblical sense he is not~he does not respect the rich over the poor; as man does, wise over the unwise naturally speaking; certain nations over another as the Jew lovers believe, and whites over blacks; etc. But this does not mean that he has not chosen certain men to eternal life AMONG ALL THESE PEOPLE, for the scriptures are clear as to that sense that he has indeed. But that for another discussion on another day.
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
He calls who He calls. And He lays out HIS Path just as He did to Eve and Abraham. "Life and Death"! And we are to make a choice.
GB, that's Old Testament theology under the first covenant! Again ONCE MORE let me ask you this question if that old covenant theology is still blinding which Adam and Eve WERE UNDER, then to what purpose is the New Covenant which is based on God's OATH and PROMISES which is seen in God writings his law IN THE HEARTS/MINDS of his people so that they can delight themselves in the law of God after the inward man? Please for once answer this question, but you can never do so without exposing your lying gospel which is under the curse of Almighty God according to Galatians chapter one.
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
Religious voices have been working to convince folks that God's Laws are "Beggarly Elements" since the very first recorded deception.
In the very sense in which Paul said those words THEY ARE, but the fault is NOT with the law of God but their sinful and wicked hearts, that's why God gave a NEW COVENANT which is supported by God's OATH and PROMISES which the first covenant WAS NOT SO! The problem is in your darkened and blinded hearts of not being able to understand the TWO MAIN covenants in the word of God which Abraham's two principal sons beautifully represented per Paul from Galatians four. God's laws are NOT within themselves weak and beggarly, it is that man's lack of spiritual desire and power to DO THEM which prompt God to have a second covenant whereby he would secure eternal life for his chosen seed by his oath and promises of FREE GRACE to the seed of Jesus Christ. So, stop your AD HOMINEM, and be honest for once and put away that subterfuge spirit far from you if that be possible.
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
You have been snared to further this deception, and are upset with me because God's Word, written on my heart, has shown it to me.
Sir, again did God write his laws on your heart SO THAT YOU COULD KNOW THE TRUTH, or was it written because YOU figure this thing out on your own and as a gift God wrote his laws on your hearts?  help me out here, and explain your self~or better yet, go ahead and truly show all that your gospel is a gospel where YOU can share the glory with God because it was YOU that found God, not the other way around! You are looking more like Ismael the more you talk and you are still attached to your mother's umbilical cord if you know what I'm saying.
Quote from: GB on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 16:21:58
I know offenses must come, so you will most likely continue to promote these falsehoods. But I am also obligated to point out these falsehoods, or at least open up conversations to discuss them, so that others might see and consider.
Before the God of heaven, I truly trust that others might see and consider to the glory of Jesus Christ. The words of Red Baker are ended~Job 31:40
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 14:23:16 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #31 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 13:11:11 »
 author=Michael2012 link=topic=105259.msg1055155394#msg1055155394 date=1580300770]
Quote
Not so.

God, by His grace and not by any works Abram had done, have chosen Abram and gave these promises:

Gen. 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

So deceptive. Here, let me show you what happens when you don't deceitfully omit God's Words which detail the true event.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

So what came first Michael? The blessing or the Commandment? The Commandment came first just as the Commandment came first with Eve. And what did Eve do? She rejected God's Word in favor of other religious voices.

What did Abraham do?

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

Quote
And when Abram came to the land of promise, that is, Canaan, God appeared again unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land (Gen.12:7).

Why was Abraham in Canaan? Because He believed and obeyed God. No matter how you twist His Word's or how many scriptures you omit, this is an undeniable truth of the Scriptures.

Quote
A son, that is a seed, even at this point was in view be given to Abraham, who didn't have one at this point, which later was revealed to be a son born of his wife Sara, that is, Isaac. And that was not because of anything or any work that Abraham had done, but because of God's will and purpose.

That is what you preach. But God Himself exposes your teaching here as contrary to His Own description of these events.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So your religion which preaches "And that was not because of anything or any work that Abraham had done" is exposed as a false doctrine, not by my words but by the Words of the Christ Himself.

Quote
Yes, and I have addressed that already in one of my post in the other thread, which, if I'm not mistaken, you just skipped and ignored.

I address all your preaching, but you just ignore it claiming "personal attack".

Quote
I quote:

Have you done that already? I guess not.

There is no difference between "God knows Abraham" because He will teach his children HIS Ways, or God "Chose Abraham" because he will teach his children His Laws.

Quote
Gen. 18:19 does not say what you made of it to say. What it speaks about pertains to the truth that God had chosen Abram and to what end.

God tells you why He chose to Bless Abraham, but you reject HIS Word's in favor of other religious voices. Even Jesus understood the "works of Abraham" you preach did not exist.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

James also understood these Biblical Truths that you preach against.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (As God Commanded Him)

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works (Of obedience) was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It's just as the Christ said in the beginning. "If you do well, shall you not be accepted?"

And Again.

Deut. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

And again;

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Just as He called Abraham to do.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, (Deny thyself) and from thy kindred,(Deny thyself) and from thy father's house, (Deny thyself) unto a land that I will shew thee: (And Follow ME)

You are wrong about what the Old And New Covenants of the Bible are, you don't know, nor do you care, about the Priesthood and the implication of God's Covenant with Levi on behalf of Israel, and you are preaching falsehoods when you preach that Abraham had no part in his own salvation.

Not because I think so, but because the Word's of God say so. Will you not be corrected?






Offline RB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #32 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 14:20:10 »
So deceptive. Here, let me show you what happens when you don't deceitfully omit God's Words which detail the true event.
Michael is more than able in answering his own post, but I must say a word about your first statement.

GB, God is much wiser than you give him the credit of being~putting you in charge or at least a protector of the truth of the gospel would be like putting a fox over the hen's house to protect them! He's going to devour every one of them if left unsupervised and challenged.   
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 14:26:07 by RB »

Offline GB

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #33 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 14:41:54 »
 author=RB link=topic=105259.msg1055155421#msg1055155421 date=1580378002]

GB believes

Quote
He calls who He calls. And He lays out HIS Path just as He did to Eve and Abraham. "Life and Death"! And we are to make a choice.


Quote
GB, that's Old Testament theology under the first covenant! Again ONCE MORE let me ask you this question if that old covenant theology is still blinding which Adam and Eve WERE UNDER,

This is your theology Red. It comes from ancient religious traditions of men who have always worked to diminish God's Commandments.

Gal. 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

So your preaching that the Covenant in question was with Adam is another in a long line of Windy's that you promote in your religion.

And the bondage mentioned is Israel being forced to receive God's Good, Just and Perfect judgments, along with having to rely on atonement exclusively from Levite Priests who had corrupted HIS LAWS and created their own, having been leading God's People astray for centuries.

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then to what purpose is the New Covenant which is based on God's OATH and PROMISES which is seen in God writings his law IN THE HEARTS/MINDS of his people so that they can delight themselves in the law of God after the inward man?

So finding fault with "them", the God of Abraham promised a New Covenant. One in which He Himself administers HIS perfect judgments and Commandments, by impressing them on the minds of the truly repentant. And He also promised to take over the Exclusive Priesthood duty of providing for the Atonement of sins.

Hebrews 7-10 details this New Covenant perfectly.

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,)

Here is one place that shows one of the Priesthood duties that the Christ promised to take over. From His Appearance until now, we no longer have to rely on receiving God's Laws through a corrupt Priesthood.

 "what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?"

The Author is arguing against the old Priesthood that the Jews were still depending on. to paraphrase, "If the old Priesthood made men perfect, then why did the Christ promise a new one in Jer. 31?"

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12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This is the Promise, the New Covenant. But before Jesus could become the High Priest, it was necessary for the Priesthood Law to be changed.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Jesus was not a Levite, therefore, the Covenant God made with Levi on The Children of Israel's behalf, was by necessity, changed so as to allow someone other than a Levite to hold the Priesthood office. It's right there in your own Bible.

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Please for once answer this question, but you can never do so without exposing your lying gospel which is under the curse of Almighty God according to Galatians chapter one.

This is the answer from God's Word to your question. The Jews didn't accept the truth about the Changed Covenant God made with Israel in regard to how HIS Laws were administered, and how the sin's of His people were atoned for.

They were still preaching that these Old Testament Priesthood "Works of the law" were still necessary for Salvation. Paul fought with them his whole life. Telling them that no flesh was justified by these "Works of the Law", but by the hearing of Faith, as Abraham demonstrated.

But as Prophesied, religious men have continued to corrupt God's Laws to this day. Twisting scriptures, as did the serpent, to promote a religion in which God's Judgments are rejected in favor of men's own religious vision. The same as the Pharisees did.

Complete with their own definition of Holy and Clean, their own "Feasts unto the Lord", their own images of God in the likeness of some pretty long haired men's hair shampoo model,  All in Christ's name.

 Teaching that God's Laws make a person blind, burdened, and only by rejecting God's Judgments and following your own, can one truly see.

Mystery Babylon, the very religion the world accepts. Along with their images and religious judgments, and High Days that the entire world economy relies on.

 This is why the Christ said to "Come out of her".




Offline Michael2012

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Re: The Jewish Sabbath .......
« Reply #34 on: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 14:54:10 »
God, by His grace and not by any works Abram had done, have chosen Abram and gave these promises:

Gen. 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

So deceptive. Here, let me show you what happens when you don't deceitfully omit God's Words which detail the true event.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

So what came first Michael? The blessing or the Commandment? The Commandment came first just as the Commandment came first with Eve. And what did Eve do? She rejected God's Word in favor of other religious voices.

What did Abraham do?

4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

Nothing deceptive there GB, if you only try harder understanding what had been written. This is what I said "God, by His grace and not by any works Abram had done, have chosen Abram and gave these promises". So, I quoted the part in Gen. 12 which speaks of the "these promises" in my statement.

Now, you quoted Gen. 12:1, as though doing so makes your false accusation true. Well, it does not.

You asked "So what came first Michael? The blessing or the Commandment?". With reference to Gen. 12:1-4, here's the order.

Verse 1: God's choosing of Abram, and the charge of God to Abraham.
Verses 2 & 3: God's promises to Abram.
Verse 4: Abram's faith unto obedience

Clearly, what came first is God's choosing of Abram by grace and God's charge. Second, the promises of God to Abram. Then came last, is Abram's faith unto obedience.

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Quote from: Michael
And when Abram came to the land of promise, that is, Canaan, God appeared again unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land (Gen.12:7).
Why was Abraham in Canaan? Because He believed and obeyed God. No matter how you twist His Word's or how many scriptures you omit, this is an undeniable truth of the Scriptures.

You asked "Why was Abraham in Canaan?". The complete answer to that is, because God had chosen him and charged him to obey his voice and keep His charge, and Abram in faith obeyed, and so God led him to that land of Canaan.

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Quote from: Michael
A son, that is a seed, even at this point was in view be given to Abraham, who didn't have one at this point, which later was revealed to be a son born of his wife Sara, that is, Isaac. And that was not because of anything or any work that Abraham had done, but because of God's will and purpose.
That is what you preach. But God Himself exposes your teaching here as contrary to His Own description of these events.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So your religion which preaches "And that was not because of anything or any work that Abraham had done" is exposed as a false doctrine, not by my words but by the Words of the Christ Himself.

You cited Gen. 26:4-5, as if it refutes the truth that God had chosen Abram by grace. No, GB. That won't work. And please don't use the name of God in vain and make it appear that He is the one who does what it is you do.

Besides, I have exposed the error of this in my Reply #380 on the other topic thread. You should be making a counter refutation instead of just uselessly repeating it over and over again. 

In Gen. 26:4-5, because Abraham obeyed His voice, and had kept His charge to him, His commandments to him, His statutes, and His laws, God established His covenant with Isaac whereby He confirms and performs the oath which He sware unto Abraham. Now, it is not as though it was to Abraham's doing and credit that God established His covenant with Isaac here. For even this was promised to Abraham beforehand (Gen. 17).

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Quote from: Michael
Yes, and I have addressed that already in one of my post in the other thread, which, if I'm not mistaken, you just skipped and ignored.
I address all your preaching, but you just ignore it claiming "personal attack".

Our posts testifies to the truthfulness or falsehood of that statement GB.

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Quote from: Michael
Go and check out the Greek text of Genesis 18:19. Of the other English translations, here's one which have it nearest to a literal rendering:

Genesis 18:19 For I have known him, to the end that he may command his children and his household after him, that they may keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice; to the end that Jehovah may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Another is the NIV, which rendered this verse better, in modern English:

For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him."

Have you done that already? I guess not.

There is no difference between "God knows Abraham" because He will teach his children HIS Ways, or God "Chose Abraham" because he will teach his children His Laws.

Obviously you don't see the difference. Or perhaps, you don't want to see it. Due diligence GB. We ought to be faithful to the Greek text where the English Bibles we now read came from. As it is, you say there is no difference, when there clearly is.

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Quote from: Michael
Gen. 18:19 does not say what you made of it to say. What it speaks about pertains to the truth that God had chosen Abram and to what end.
God tells you why He chose to Bless Abraham, but you reject HIS Word's in favor of other religious voices. Even Jesus understood the "works of Abraham" you preach did not exist.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

James also understood these Biblical Truths that you preach against.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (As God Commanded Him)

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works (Of obedience) was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

It's just as the Christ said in the beginning. "If you do well, shall you not be accepted?"

And Again.

Deut. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

And again;

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Just as He called Abraham to do.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, (Deny thyself) and from thy kindred,(Deny thyself) and from thy father's house, (Deny thyself) unto a land that I will shew thee: (And Follow ME)

You are wrong about what the Old And New Covenants of the Bible are, you don't know, nor do you care, about the Priesthood and the implication of God's Covenant with Levi on behalf of Israel, and you are preaching falsehoods when you preach that Abraham had no part in his own salvation.

Not because I think so, but because the Word's of God say so. Will you not be corrected?

Apparently you can't refute the truth of what I said regarding Gen. 18:19, that you bring up new issues, with the usual GB AD HOMINEM. One of your cover up tactics, another of which I'm reminded of is keeping silent or skipping the issue, like that of your error concerning the Passover relating to the tenth plague in Exodus 12.

Make separate threads about these new issues you bring up and let's have our discussion there.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 14:58:46 by Michael2012 »