Author Topic: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.  (Read 1259 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17 »
So what will be the order of end time events in which these things shall happen, the sealing of the 144000. the loud cry, the shaking, and Satan showing up before the Second Coming of Christ.

What do we have coming, here is a list that outlines some of the events...
1. Where We Are Today: - We are in the year 2019.

2. Another Possible Huge Crisis to Come: - We can see the world is in crisis now with economic troubles, uprisings, riots, wars, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanos erupting, "terrorism", famine. But there is yet another possible huge crisis to hit the world.

3. The "Kings of the Earth" Give Their Power to Babylon: - Revelation 17 describes the whore of Babylon. So the leaders of this world will unite and give their power and support to the this apostate church, and then the world will be in a position ready to enforce the mark of the beast.

4. The Mark of the Beast Enforced by Law: - Now this is a major Bible prophecy end time event to be fulfilled. Revelation 13 tells us that the mark of the beast will be enforced upon the whole world ... Revelation 13:16 ...'And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead.' ... Because of all the turmoil in the world, the church leaders (of Babylon) and the governments will unite in convincing the world that the mark of the beast will be the "solution" to the world's problems. They will convince the world (through deception) that all these troubles are the judgments of God because of us not keeping His law. And this is starting to happen already. Leaders in America have started attributing the disasters that are happening as God's judgments upon the world.

5. The King of the North appears: - We are told in Daniel 11:45 that the king of the north comes into play.

6. The Three Angel's Messages Proclaimed to the World: - Before anyone chooses for or against the mark of the beast, God, through His remnant church on earth will send a final message to the world. This message contained in the three angel's messages of Revelation 14 is God's last call of mercy to the world.

Revelation 14:6-12 ...'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

... And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

... And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'


7. The Final Choice for the Seal or Mark: - In this end times timeline of final events, this is the most important for every man, woman and child on earth. We will all at this time have to make one final choice. A choice to take the side of Christ Jesus and receive the seal of God (Revelation 7:1-3; 14:1) or, under ecomonic pressure and fear of persecution from the world, take the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16).

8. Probation Closed: - Once everyone have made their decision for the mark of the beast or the seal of God, then the door of mercy will close and everyone will be judged either righteous or filthy ... Revelation 22:11 ...'He that is unjust, let him be unjust still, and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still, and he that is holy, let him be holy still.' ...
Who will receive your allegiance? The beast system (Papacy), or our Heavenly Father?

9. A Time of Trouble for the World: - This time of trouble, the great tribulation is prophesied in Daniel 12:1 ... 'And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people, and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time, and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.' ...

10. The Seven Last Plagues: - Now that everyone has decided to side with Jesus or the beast, God's final judgments can begin to fall upon this world, in the form of the seven last plagues. These plagues will be the "wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture." as mentioned in Revelation 14:10.

11. The Battle of Armageddon: - This is the final world battle will happen when Jesus Christ returns as "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS" to defeat Satan and his hosts and to deliver the saints.

12. The Second Coming of Christ Jesus: - This is THE END TIME EVENT that all the saints will be watching and waiting for. The second coming of Christ will be a glorious, visible, fiery event that will make all other end time events look ordinary! Accompanied by billions of mighty angels, Jesus will return in great glory to deliver His people. There will be no rapture like so many believe, as the Bible clearly states that EVERY EYE will see Jesus return, and that His second coming will be a noisy, fiery event (Matthew 24:27; 1 Thess. 4:16-17; Matthew 24:30-31; Revelation 1:7; 2 Peter 3:10).

13. The Resurrection of the Saints and the 144,000 living Saints: - When Jesus Christ returns at the second coming, the graves will burst open and the righteous will rise up with immortal bodies. And together with the saints who have gone through the great tribulation and are still alive, will meet Jesus in the air ... 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ...' For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.' ... The rest of the dead (lost) will not live again until the 1000 years are over ... Revelation 20:5 ...'But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.'

14. The 1000 Year Millennium: - After Christ has returned at the second coming and resurrects the saints, He takes us home to the Heavenly Kingdom and the New Jerusalem, and there we dwell for 1000 years, while Satan is bound to this desolate earth with no one to tempt, as all the wicked were killed at the second coming. Contrary to popular belief, we DO NOT spend the 1000 years on earth.

15. The Wicked Destroyed: - After the 1000 years in Heaven, we return to this earth in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:2). The wicked are resurrected and Satan gathers them together to fight and take the New Jerusalem ... Revelation 20:9-10 ...'And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.' ... So the wicked are thrown into the lake of fire, where they are consumed and cease to exist, again contrary to popular belief. Even Satan himself is finally destroyed and will cease to exist.

Here is a good site to check the sequence of events and biblical timeline....http://timeline.biblehistory.com/home
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 16:00:50 by Hobie »

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #1 on: Tue Dec 10, 2019 - 05:40:28 »
I forgot the New Heaven and the New Earth:

Revelation 21 King James Version (KJV)
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Offline beam

  • Blessed are the cracked, they are the ones who let in the Light.
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #2 on: Wed Dec 11, 2019 - 08:50:59 »
Now all you Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Non-denominationals, Jws, Mormons, and you Baptists need to rush out ASAP and join the ONLY church that meets the requirements of the ones that keep the commandments and of course have the gift of prophecy, the one and only SDA church.  The test of commandment keeping is, of course, the Sabbath.   But wait just a minute, what about the sixth commandment, you know the one that says "thou shalt not kill" and that same church believes in abortion of living babies!  So, I ask, if you join the SDA church and are able to observe the Sabbath by not thinking your own thoughts and doing what pleases you (Isaiah 58) will you be any better off than those who gather to praise God on Sunday or any other day and love others so much that we would not even think about killing them???


I didn't forget that the true church also has the gift of prophecy according to the SDA church.  That claim is covered by one Ellen G. White who even claimed to more than just a prophet.  She claimed to be the lesser light and according to her was shown thousands of the sins of others.  Ellen was shown the following: I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: “Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues,  will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.”Testimonies For The Church 1:131, 132 (1856)
In 1856 she was shown by her angel that some of the folks at the conference would be alive and see the Savior descending to take us them home.  Is it any wonder that many of adherents of the SDA church have lost faith in the one that is supposed to be the one to have fulfilled part of the key as to who the remnant church would be.  They would have the testimony of Jesus?   Why would an angel tell Ellen something that was not the truth as can be seen today?   The people she was preaching to at the conference ate her words up.  They really believed.  Now we all should know better.  That was not her only "mistake".
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 22:16:33 by beam »

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5835
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #3 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 10:24:25 »
Now all you Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Non-denominationals, Jws, Mormons, and you Baptists need to rush out ASAP and join the ONLY church that meets the requirements of the ones that keep the commandments and of course have the gift of prophecy, the one and only SDA church.  The test of commandment keeping is, of course, the Sabbath.   But wait just a minute, what about the sixth commandment, you know the one that says "thou shalt not kill" and that same church believes in abortion of living babies!  So, I ask, if you join the SDA church and are able to observe the Sabbath by not thinking your own thoughts and doing what pleases you Is28 will you be any better off than those who gather to praise God on Sunday or any other day and love others so much that we would not even think about killing them???


I didn't forget that the true church also has the gift of prophecy according to the SDA church.  That claim is covered by one Ellen G. White who even claimed to more than just a prophet.  She claimed to be the lesser light and according to her was shown thousands of the sins of others.  Ellen was shown the following: I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: “Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues,  will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.”Testimonies For The Church 1:131, 132 (1856)
In 1856 she was shown by her angel that some of the folks at the conference would be alive and see the Savior descending to take us them home.  Is it any wonder that many of adherents of the SDA church have lost faith in the one that is supposed to be the one to have fulfilled part of the key as to who the remnant church would be.  They would have the testimony of Jesus?   Why would an angel tell Ellen something that was not the truth as can be seen today?   The people she was preaching to at the conference ate her words up.  They really believed.  Now we all should know better.  That was not her only "mistake".

More beaming nonsense. No one said that salvation is in the SDA denomination or any other. To the contrary, the opposite has been expressed on these boards many times over. You are the one eaten up with these thoughts, and EGW, which is why you are the one always bringing both up. Just more beaming diversionary tactics. Let me spell it out for you again crystal clear like. No one is saved by joining or belonging to any denomination including the SDA denomination.

The SDA church is filled with wheat and tares just like all other denominations. It is also in serious backsliding and even apostasy mode, like most others today. The truths it once proclaimed, which many still proclaim, have not and cannot change. The truth cannot be changed, just rejected by those who prefer deception, or ignored by those who care not. This was and is the way of Israel, and all and every "Christian" denomination in this world. God reveals truth and establishes people to proclaim said truth. A denomination or institution is formed to do such, which Satan immediately begins to attack, and eventually compromises.

It is the truth we are all looking for and or proclaiming is it not? Please address the issues brought forward in threads, instead of playing the same recording over and again. I no longer attend SDA church services because apostasy is so rife and ongoing. I have not abandoned though, the truth once proclaimed and maintained by the denomination. Leaving a denomination is one thing, leaving truth is another altogether. Address the issues please, stop bringing your single mindedness into every thread you post on. Or start your own thread about such again, where people may address your oft repeated accusations or not as they choose. Thanks.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #4 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 13:21:54 »
He does seem intent on disruption and nonsensical posts, but God sees every word...

Matthew 12:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #4 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 13:21:54 »



Offline current occupant2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Manna: 6
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #5 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 15:43:00 »

 You do go on and on about things that you know nothing about and speculate I’m things that you have not been told all the while avoiding the true words of the Bible.


He does seem intent on disruption and nonsensical posts, but God sees every word...

Matthew 12:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #6 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 17:11:37 »
I guess you don't really hold to what comes from the Bible then...

Offline current occupant2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Manna: 6
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #7 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 17:15:08 »
I guess you don't really hold to what comes from the Bible then...

We certainly don’t hold to your assumptions that you presume come from the Bible but are only true if they are validated by the visions and writings of Ellen White.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #8 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 17:56:04 »
They are from the Bible...not me.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #9 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 17:59:36 »
You do go on and on about things that you know nothing about and speculate I’m things that you have not been told all the while avoiding the true words of the Bible.
Notice your usual method of posts...mainly personal comments and little or no Bible
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 18:02:16 by Hobie »

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5835
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #10 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 19:39:36 »
We certainly don’t hold to your assumptions that you presume come from the Bible but are only true if they are validated by the visions and writings of Ellen White.

Another one eaten up with EGW. You and beam bring her up far more than anyone else.

Offline current occupant2

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Manna: 6
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #11 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 20:47:46 »
You and other sda’s just like to hide the fact that you wouldn’t have most of your unique beliefs if Ellen Hadn’t had a vision to confirm them. 

Ellen is the final court of appeal and the infallible interpreter of the Bible for SDA doctrinal testing.   

Another one eaten up with EGW. You and beam bring her up far more than anyone else.

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5835
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #12 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 22:37:47 »
You and other sda’s just like to hide the fact that you wouldn’t have most of your unique beliefs if Ellen Hadn’t had a vision to confirm them. 

Ellen is the final court of appeal and the infallible interpreter of the Bible for SDA doctrinal testing.

You repeat this lie often. I have addressed and proved it wrong before. Please do bring forth any doctrine you claim only exists through EGW. That we may examine and test your claim. Thank you.

Offline beam

  • Blessed are the cracked, they are the ones who let in the Light.
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #13 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 22:56:23 »
More beaming nonsense. No one said that salvation is in the SDA denomination or any other. To the contrary, the opposite has been expressed on these boards many times over. You are the one eaten up with these thoughts, and EGW, which is why you are the one always bringing both up. Just more beaming diversionary tactics. Let me spell it out for you again crystal clear like. No one is saved by joining or belonging to any denomination including the SDA denomination.
Would you bring up the conference in 1856 where Ellen told the people that some would be living when Jesus returns?  No, you would cover her lies if you could.  Someone needs to let the World know of the corruption in the remnant church.   Now about the SDA church and salvation.  It is a well known fact that according to the SDA church one must keep the (10) commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.  SDAs interpret the testimony of Jesus as Ellen White the self made more than a prophet.  Maybe one doesn't have to become a member, but must certainly believe Ellen had the testimony of Jesus.   All who don't fall into the SDA category certainly are not candidates for Heaven.

 
Quote
The SDA church is filled with wheat and tares just like all other denominations.

According to your own criteria that one must keep the ten commandments all of you would be tares because you believing in aborting babies thus violating the sixth commandment.

Quote
It is also in serious backsliding and even apostasy mode, like most others today. The truths it once proclaimed, which many still proclaim, have not and cannot change. The truth cannot be changed, just rejected by those who prefer deception, or ignored by those who care not. This was and is the way of Israel, and all and every "Christian" denomination in this world. God reveals truth and establishes people to proclaim said truth. A denomination or institution is formed to do such, which Satan immediately begins to attack, and eventually compromises.
The problem is that you have been fed deception and cannot see the truth when it is right in front of you.

Quote
It is the truth we are all looking for and or proclaiming is it not? Please address the issues brought forward in threads, instead of playing the same recording over and again. I no longer attend SDA church services because apostasy is so rife and ongoing. I have not abandoned though, the truth once proclaimed and maintained by the denomination. Leaving a denomination is one thing, leaving truth is another altogether. Address the issues please, stop bringing your single mindedness into every thread you post on. Or start your own thread about such again, where people may address your oft repeated accusations or not as they choose. Thanks.
Everyone, even those who read the posts on this thread, can choose.  I see no reason not to bring the real truth to light therefore I cannot honor your request.

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5835
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #14 on: Fri Dec 13, 2019 - 23:23:51 »
Oh well Hobie, looks like your thread has been hijacked again by those eaten up with EGW and more broken record accusations.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9482
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #15 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 05:24:14 »
Oh well Hobie, looks like your thread has been hijacked again by those eaten up with EGW and more broken record accusations.
Amo, I would debate you or Hobie, the problem with Hobie, he refuses to debate me once I enter into his thread~he conveniently disappears. I have made several attempts to do so. Just to prove my point, I will make a few comments on his opening post to see if he is truly sincere in debating the SDA doctrines, pretty sure he's not.
Quote from: Hobie on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17
1. Where We Are Today: - We are in the year 2019.
This is very subjected based on who you ask IN the religion of 'Mysterty Babylon"~Mysterty Babylon being this world system  with its commerce, entertainment, etc. and RELIGION, per beginning at Isaiah 13 and ending at Revelation 17, AND Revelation 18~ NOT as the SDA sect who like some limits Mysterty Babylon to the RCC. We agree that Roman Catholic Chruch is the biggest whore among the false religions that are IN Mystery Babylon but to limit Mystery Babylon to them only is doing OTHER false cults and their false prophets a great service! They allow men of the  Word of Faith/prosperity preachers, of which, the list is too long to cover for now, and others like Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, etc. etc. to fly under the radar almost to a point that many accept them as true men of God when they are not, as much as many will hate the faithful children of God for saying such things, but say it we MUST.
Quote from: Hobie on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17
Where We Are Today: - We are in the year 2019.
I will give my opinion as to where we are based on my understanding. We are living at the end of the little season of Revelation. That little season begun somewhere around the late 1700s into the early to mid-1800's where this world was flooded with false cults many of which started around the beginning of the 1800s to the early 1900s. Care to know what many others false cults started during this time? You got it: Mormonism. SDA, Jehovah's False Witnesses, Pentecostalism, and a legion of many more but these are the largest of the cults in Mystery Babylon whose walls shall soon come down and be burnt!
Quote from: Hobie on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17
2. Another Possible Huge Crisis to Come: - We can see the world is in crisis now with economic troubles, uprisings, riots, wars, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanos erupting, "terrorism", famine. But there is yet another possible huge crisis to hit the world.
I do not believe so~I believe the next BIG THING COMING is a FALSE worldwide peace built on shutting the mouths of the FAITHFUL two witnesses of Revelation 11~they MUST be killed before their so-call peace can come for these two witnesses torment the conscience of the wicked by their faithful witness to the TRUTH!  The Two witnesses are JEWS AND GENTILES that make up the true church of Jesus Christ per the prophets and Paul from Romans 11.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
1st Thessalonians 5:1-3~"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."
Many more could be given to prove this point.
Quote from: Hobie on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17
The "Kings of the Earth" Give Their Power to Babylon: - Revelation 17 describes the whore of Babylon.
Revelation 17 does indeed describes the whore that lives IN Mystery Babylon and it is NOT limited to the EOC/RCC but to ALL false prophets and churches living IN Mystery Babylon. The leaders of this world have indeed embraced the religion of Mystery Babylon the man of sin (a man living under the power of sin and it's false religion) and reject men of God, that is~all who have the truth.
Quote from: Hobie on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17
So the leaders of this world will unite and give their power and support to the this apostate church,
They HAVE and even to this day still do, but that will soon end totally~just before the coming of Jesus Christ God will put it into their hearts to destroy RELIGION from off of the face of this earth!
Quote from: John
Revelation 17:16,17~"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
Once the kings of the earth killed the whore then they will think that the source of all their wars and trouble are now behind them and they can for once and all live in peace, but it shall be short-lived!
Quote from: Hobie on: Mon Dec 02, 2019 - 06:26:17
and then the world will be in a position ready to enforce the mark of the beast.
So wrong! The mark of the beast EVERY MAN IS BORN WITH! Just because the whore is burnt with fire does not mean that sin has been defeated far form it! The mark of the beast is HUMAN DEPRAVITY that every man from Adam on are born with. Just as it was in Noah's days it has ALWAYS been!
Quote from: Moses
Genesis 6:5~"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The mark is IN HIS FOREHEAD (mind) and his right hand~his fellowship is with the WORKS OF DARKNESS, etc. See and consider Galatians 2:9; etc. The mark of the beast is not anything that has to be ENFORCE, ALL men are born with it, and they naturally  LOVE darkness more than light, no problem with them showing that they have this mark! This mark gives them the POWER to buy and sell, or live being accepted by Mystery Babylon and not hated and killed by them. Kill in the sense that you cannot speak THE TRUTH, but in those days men with truth will be put to silence, or just rejected by the people of Mystery Babylon as haters and extremists.

Enough, for now, ~so Hobie let us see if you truly want to debate your side. Bring your buddy Amo along with you and let us talk about these things more in-depth.
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 07:24:07 by RB »

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12483
  • Manna: 319
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #16 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 05:44:32 »
If I were to look around the world today and see what is happening and then try to tie that to any prophecies in Revelation and elsewhere in the Bible about Mystery Babylon I think I would point to Islam.  Current predictions say that the population of Europe will become predominantly Muslim within the next 40-50 years with the North America following not too long after that. Given North America, Europe, the Middle East and much of South East Asia as the Islamic Caliphate, it would seem to me that matches much of the eschatology presented in the Bible.  Who but Muslims as Mystery Babylon, a world power, will be more surprised when the end brings Jesus Christ back again?

But all of that is probably just me talking through my hat.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #17 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 05:57:57 »
Amo, I would debate you or Hobie, the problem with Hobie, he refuses to debate me once I enter into his thread~he conveniently disappears. I have made several attempts to do so. Just to prove my point, I will make a few comments on his opening post to see if he is truly sincere in debating the SDA doctrines, pretty sure he's not. This is very subjected based on who you ask IN the religion of 'Mysterty Babylon"~Mysterty Babylon being this world system  with its commerce, entertainment, etc. and RELIGION, per beginning at Isaiah 13 and ending at Revelation 17, AND Revelation 18~ NOT as the SDA sect who like some limits Mysterty Babylon to the RCC. We agree that Roman Catholic Chruch is the biggest whore among the false religions that are IN Mystery Babylon but to limit Mystery Babylon to them only is doing OTHER false cults and their false prophets a great service! They allow men of the  Word of Faith/prosperity preachers, of which, the list is too long to cover for now, and others like Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, etc. etc. to fly under the radar almost to a point that many accept them as true men of God when they are not, as much as many will hate the faithful children of God for saying such things, but say it we MUST. I will give my opinion as to where we are based on my understanding. We are living at the end of the little season of Revelation. That little season begun somewhere around the late 1700s into the early to mid-1800's where this world was flooded with false cults many of which started around the beginning of the 1800s to the early 1900s. Care to know what many others false cults started during this time? You got it: Mormonism. SDA, Jehovah's False Witnesses, Pentecostalism, and a legion of many more but these are the largest of the cults in Mystery Babylon whose walls shall soon come down and be burnt! I do not believe so~I believe the next BIG THING COMING is a FALSE worldwide peace built on shutting the mouths of the FAITHFUL two witnesses of Revelation 11~they MUST be killed before their so-call peace can come for these two witnesses torment the conscience of the wicked by their faithful witness to the TRUTH!  The Two witnesses are JEWS AND GENTILES that make up the true church of Jesus Christ per the prophets and Paul from Romans 11. Many more could be given to prove this point. Revelation 17 does indeed describes the whore that lives IN Mystery Babylon and it is NOT limited to the EOC/RCC but to ALL false prophets and churches living IN Mystery Babylon. The leaders of this world have indeed embraced the religion of Mystery Babylon the man of sin (a man living under the power of sin and it's false religion) and rejected men of God, that is~all who have the truth. They HAVE and even to this day still do, but that will soon end totally~just before the coming of Jesus Christ God will put it into their hearts to destroy RELIGION from off of the face of this earth! Once the kings of the earth killed the whore then they will think that the source of all their wars and trouble are now behind them and they can for once and all live in peace, but it shall be short-lived! So wrong! The mark of the beast EVERY MAN IS BORN WITH! Just because the whore is burnt with fire does not mean that sin has been defeated far form it! The mark of the beast is HUMAN DEPRAVITY that every man from Adam on are born with. Just as it was in Noah's days it has ALWAYS been! The mark is IN HIS FOREHEAD (mind) and his right hand~his fellowship is with the WORKS OF DARKNESS, etc. See and consider Galatians 2:9; etc. The mark of the beast is not anything that has to be ENFORCE, ALL men are born with it, and they naturally  LOVE darkness more than light, no problem with them showing that they have this mark! This mark gives them the POWER to buy and sell, or live being accepted by Mystery Babylon and not hated and killed by them. Kill in the sense that you cannot speak THE TRUTH, but in those days men with truth will be put to silence, or just rejected by the people of Mystery Babylon as haters and extremists.

Enough, for now, ~so Hobie let us see if you truly want to debate your side. Bring your buddy Amo along with you and let us talk about these things more in-depth.
When I see someone who truly wants to discuss the scriptures, I dont mind. But I am a moderator in several other sites and participate in many, and I am not a going to get into personal issues and attacks which seem to be most of the replies here.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #18 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 06:21:14 »
Lets just take one issue and look at it, the Mark on the hand and on the forehead. We can see how Sunday is being presented as just as a secular day off for workers, you dont have to believe its a spiritual day or anything religious.

We see it coming in many countries .."For the majority of workers in England and Wales, there are no statutory restrictions regulating days of the week they are required to work. However, since 1994 retail and betting shop workers cannot be compelled to work on a Sunday.

What is a 'shop'?
The law applies to any premises where retail trade or business is carried on, including barbers, hairdressers, auction houses and hire companies. Catering business and the sale of programmes or similar items at theatres are specifically excluded. A distinction is made between 'small' and 'large' shops. Large shops (those of 280 square metres or more) can only open for a maximum of six continuous hours on a Sunday. Smaller shops are not restricted."https://united-kingdom.taylorwessing.com/en/insights/law-at-work/a-day-of-rest-an-overview-of-sunday-working

"Mexico’s Federal Labor Law provides a series of rights that employees are entitled to that allow them to work under optimal conditions resulting in greater productivity and better performance of their job responsibilities. Among such rights is the right to receive a day of rest on at least a weekly basis. The purpose of the weekly rest day is to protect the health and physical and mental integrity employees. Such is intended to allow employees to reenergize themselves after the work week, and to provide them with time to rest and to spend time with their families. The Federal Labor Law establishes that for each six days of work, an employee will be entitled to at least one day of rest, with payment of full salary and benefits. The law also establishes that jobs requiring continuous labor, employees and employers must mutually agree on the days which employees will take e their weekly rest day. Nevertheless, they must try to designate Sundays for taking the weekly rest day."
https://www.primerus.com/international-business-articles/employment-law-mandatory-weekly-rest-days-10152013.htm


"How Sunday Came to be Established as a Day of Rest in France... mandatory day of rest was expanded to all salaried employees of commercial and industrial establishments by the Loi du 13 juillet 1906 établissant le repos hebdomadaire en faveur des employés et ouvriers (Law of July 13, 1906, Establishing Weekly Rest for the Benefit of Employees and Workers), which also set Sunday as the normal day of rest.  A copy of this 1906 law can be found on the website of the French Ministry of Labor and Employment."

"It is not legal to refuse to permit shop or betting workers to opt out of Sunday working, whether for business needs or otherwise."https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/legal-qa-sunday-working/

"The European Sunday Alliance is convinced that working on Sundays endangers the health and safety of workers as well as the social cohesion in our societies ... Only a well-protected common work-free day per week enables citizens to enjoy full participation in cultural, sports, social and religious life and allows for reconciliation. That is why the European Sunday Alliance commits itself to safeguarding a work-free Sunday."https://www.cesi.org/protect-the-work-free-sunday/

"Sunday is one step closer to being concretised as the 12th public holiday recognised by the laws of Antigua and Barbuda."https://www.antiguaobserver.com/lower-house-passes-the-public-holiday-amendment-bill-2019/

"A Modest Proposal for a Day of Rest....r. Smadja’s daring plan calls for an international day of rest (about 53 days per year) plus approximately 15 “holidays” where cumulatively there would be a cessation of all productive activity for approximately 70 days, or about 20% of the year.  These days of “non-activity” would help achieve the shared goal outlined in the Paris Climate Conference (COP21) of a 20% reduction of pollution globally by 2050, with the aim of keeping global warming below 2°C.

Smadja brings together social, economic, ecological and theological principles to address the serious issue of climate change."https://ceoworld.biz/2018/01/29/a-modest-proposal-for-a-day-of-rest/

As you can see, it can be enforced even as a day off for the workers (hand) or as a religious day of rest for the believer (forehead). Its very plain and simple and being done just as the Bible said in the secular and religious viewpoints....

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #19 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 06:43:05 »
Now as to the Mark being Sunday worship, the Catholic Church makes the claim itself....
We dont have to go far to find what the Roman Catholic Church views are if they have any kind of "mark" that goes against the law of God.

Cardinal Gibbons: "Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act. And the act is the MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters."

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ’The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

“It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.

"As Pope Benedict says, Sunday is not just a suspension of ordinary activities, but a time when 'Christians discover the Eucharistic form that their lives are meant to have.' The way we celebrate Sunday will affect the way we live the remainder of the week and is a mark of Christian identity from generation to generation." (Cardinal Sean P. O'Malley, Pastoral Letter, November 20, 2011 - source)

"Question. Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
Answer. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her.- she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." (Doctrinal Catechism, Rev. Stephen Keenan (Kenedy, New York), p. 174 - source)

"Question. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Question. How prove you that?
Answer. Because by keeping Sunday they acknowledge the church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin." (The Douay Catechism, Abridgment of Christian Doctrine (Kenedy, New York), p. 58 - source)..."

So what does the Papal Church of Rome say is her "mark" of authority? The Roman Catholic Church itself holds that changing the Sabbath Day from the seventh day to the first is her "MARK" of authority.
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 06:56:55 by Hobie »

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #20 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 06:52:41 »
So how will it restrict "buying and selling"....

"Therefore, also in the particular circumstances of our own time, Christians will naturally strive to ensure that civil legislation respects their duty to keep Sunday holy." (John Paul II, Dies Domini, 1998)

Economic sanctions are being used right now to control buying and selling for countries that don’t cooperate. That’s one thing that we’re seeing that we’ve never seen before. All the nations getting together and forcing other nations that don’t comply through economic sanctions, they can’t buy or sell unless they cooperate. Take a look at the sanctions against Iran and you can see how they are getting squeezed.  So if a "New World Order" or world governance on a issue is to be enforced, the ability to 'buy and sell' is one of the most easy tools to use.

We will be surprised how it comes about, here is a good article on this...."Concerning this prophecy, Ellen White comments: "When we learn the power of His word, we shall not follow the suggestions of Satan in order to obtain food or to save our lives. ... In the last great conflict of the controversy with Satan those who are loyal to God will see every earthly support cut off. Because they refuse to break His law in obedience to earthly powers, they will be forbidden to buy or sell." The Desire of Ages, pp. 121, 122....However, the major thrust will 36 against the proclamation of the Word. Those who oppose it "will put forth almost superhuman efforts to shut away the light." "By every means at their command they will endeavor to suppress the discussion of these vital questions." Civil power will be invoked and commandment keepers will be "threatened with fines and imprisonment" (The Great Controversy, p. 607)....Until probation closes the "re straining influence of the Holy Spirit" is felt in the land. Satan "moves upon his servants to pro pose measures that would greatly impede the work of God." But the "angel who unites in the proclamation of the third angel's message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory" and God counteracts Satan's moves by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the "latter rain" (ibid., pp. 610, 611).

The prophecies outlined above are familiar ones, but the religious implications of the phrase "buying and selling" have often been overlooked in our interpretation.

"Buying and selling" implies: (1) sellers, (2) buyers, (3) merchandise, and (4) the bargaining transaction. Let's take -a closer look at what is involved in each.

1. Merchants include: The master merchantman who, when he had found one pearl of great price, sold all that he had and bought it (Matt. 13:45, 46). "He opens His treasures and cries, 'Buy of me gold tried in the fire. . . . 'Open your doors,' says the great Merchantman, the possessor of spiritual riches, 'and trans act your business with me.' " The SDA Bible Commentary, Ellen G. White Comments, on Rev. 3:18- 20, pp. 965, 966.

2. Buyers. Purchasers of the heavenly treasures are represented by the man who found the treasure in the field and sold all to obtain it (Matt. 13:44). They are also represented in the parable of the virgins as awaiting the arrival of the bridegroom (Matt. 25:1-13). The foolish virgins were seeking oil from earthly merchants when the bridegroom came.

3. Heavenly merchandise is presented in the Scriptures by such figures as truth, bread, oil, gold, white clothing, and eyesalve. Earthly merchandise is presented as gold, silver, jewels, ornaments, fabric for making clothing and "that which is not bread" (Isa. 55:2), presumably an imitation or substitute for the living bread...."https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1973/12/no-man-might-buy-or-sell
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 19:21:19 by Hobie »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9482
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #21 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 07:38:04 »
If I were to look around the world today and see what is happening and then try to tie that to any prophecies in Revelation and elsewhere in the Bible about Mystery Babylon I think I would point to Islam.  Current predictions say that the population of Europe will become predominantly Muslim within the next 40-50 years with the North America following not too long after that. Given North America, Europe, the Middle East and much of South East Asia as the Islamic Caliphate, it would seem to me that matches much of the eschatology presented in the Bible.  Who but Muslims as Mystery Babylon, a world power, will be more surprised when the end brings Jesus Christ back again?

But all of that is probably just me talking through my hat.
There are about 1.2 billions of Catholics; another 250 million EOC; and many more that are very similar to their faith. There are 1.6 billion Muslims; so the numbers are very close, yet Muslims reject Jesus Christ as the Saviour of sinners, and exalt Allah. They are much like the Sadducees among the Pharisees. I truly do not see them as much as a threat to the truth of Christianity as EOC/RCC. Nevertheless, they ARE part of the religion of Mystery Babylon.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #22 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 07:42:32 »
Oh well Hobie, looks like your thread has been hijacked again by those eaten up with EGW and more broken record accusations.

The thing is most of it was held from times past by the Protestant Reformers and even during the decline of the Roman Empire, and they will not acknowledge, much less agree with even that.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9482
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #23 on: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 09:21:11 »
When I see someone who truly wants to discuss the scriptures, I dont mind. But I am a moderator in several other sites and participate in many, and I am not a going to get into personal issues and attacks which seem to be most of the replies here.
Hobie, just as I expected~I did not attack you in any way, if so, please point it out. I addressed your post using scriptural, intellectual honest tactics.

There are only two intellectually-honest debate tactics: 1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts~2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. That’s it. Simple! The dishonest list is much longer. And you have engaged in some dishonest tactics. Let me point some out:

Changing the subject: debater is losing (or, knows he may lose as in your case) so he tries to redirect the attention of the audience to another subject area where he thinks he can look better relative to the person he is debating, but admits to no change of subject and pretends to be refuting a statement of his opponent. Political people on TV often use the phrase “But the real question is___” or “What the American people are really interested in is___” as a preface to changing the subject.

Sir, I so far have said not one thing concerning the Sabbath or Sunday worship, yet you copied and pasted much material that I so far have not brought up~THUS moving my post out OF SIGHT from the average reader....another very deceitful art of debating!

Another one~Stating WHY one is wrong without stating WHERE they are wrong from the scriptures. In other words, one has a mark of the beast because they worship or rest on Sunday, but what follows is not an identification of errors or omissions in your facts or logic, but rather deficiencies in their background or possible bias. Essentially, you believe that your opponent is prohibited from commenting on the topic in question because of what’s in their faith or not in their faith or because of some possible bias against your religion and prophet Ellen White.

If you have the truth then answer my post and can we can go from there.
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 14, 2019 - 14:30:05 by RB »

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #24 on: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 08:12:10 »
Hobie, just as I expected~I did not attack you in any way, if so, please point it out. I addressed your post using scriptural, intellectual honest tactics.

There are only two intellectually-honest debate tactics: 1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts~2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. That’s it. Simple! The dishonest list is much longer. And you have engaged in some dishonest tactics. Let me point some out:

Changing the subject: debater is losing (or, knows he may lose as in your case) so he tries to redirect the attention of the audience to another subject area where he thinks he can look better relative to the person he is debating, but admits to no change of subject and pretends to be refuting a statement of his opponent. Political people on TV often use the phrase “But the real question is___” or “What the American people are really interested in is___” as a preface to changing the subject.

Sir, I so far have said not one thing concerning the Sabbath or Sunday worship, yet you copied and pasted much material that I so far have not brought up~THUS moving my post out OF SIGHT from the average reader....another very deceitful art of debating!

Another one~Stating WHY one is wrong without stating WHERE they are wrong from the scriptures. In other words, one has a mark of the beast because they worship or rest on Sunday, but what follows is not an identification of errors or omissions in your facts or logic, but rather deficiencies in their background or possible bias. Essentially, you believe that your opponent is prohibited from commenting on the topic in question because of what’s in their faith or not in their faith or because of some possible bias against your religion and prophet Ellen White.

If you have the truth then answer my post and can we can go from there.
You come to debate or 'win' a argument, that is not my purpose as God wants His truth to be spread not argued to see who is the best 'debater', but lets look at the issue here. Worship is the reason for the Sabbath and it is the only day God ever gave us to worship Him on, so we must be careful we don't change to ideas of men. Worship is what the conflict is about...

Matthew 4:9
And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

We see this is the reason at the end...
Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 14:9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Notice how "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea" connects to the Sabbath...

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Creator made the day of worship..

Genesis 2:1-4
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

And this is were the struggle with the Beast along with the Dragon or Satan is at, true worship.
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 08:31:47 by Hobie »

Offline beam

  • Blessed are the cracked, they are the ones who let in the Light.
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #25 on: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 14:42:41 »
He does seem intent on disruption and nonsensical posts, but God sees every word...
I certainly do not ever want to disrupt or write nonsensical posts.  Your analysis is without anything that would back up your claim.  I need input instead of innuendoes.  Share the thoughts of your critique.

I realize you do not like my comments because they do not agree with much you write.  This thread is about the end time events as seen by the SDA church.  You have every right to express those SDA beliefs.  The forum allows me to counter those beliefs.  Maybe I do use methods that most would not use, but I do it to get my point across.  The SDA church boasts being the remnant of the original established church.  If that is true then we should not find anything that would cause us to challenge that boast.  The fact is that the church ignores the sixth commandment, so if you use point keep the commandments and refer to them as the 10 commandments as one reason you are the remnant then that is not the truth and I am here to tell the real story.  If that is presenting idle words then refute with some meat.

The other part of my post is dealing with the end time events.  At a conference that Ellen White spoke to a group she used her angel as her backup to tell the crowd that some there at that meeting would be living to see the coming of Jesus.  1856????  Some would be alive to See His coming?  How in this World can you write that what I wrote is disruption and nonsensical?   You have no challenging evidence to offer, so you go into attack mode.  Try to make me seem as a disruption and nonsensical.  What both of you should do is offer an apology and/or communicate your reasons why I am wrong.



Matthew 12:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #26 on: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 19:24:54 »
I certainly do not ever want to disrupt or write nonsensical posts.  Your analysis is without anything that would back up your claim.  I need input instead of innuendoes.  Share the thoughts of your critique.

I realize you do not like my comments because they do not agree with much you write.  This thread is about the end time events as seen by the SDA church.  You have every right to express those SDA beliefs.  The forum allows me to counter those beliefs.  Maybe I do use methods that most would not use, but I do it to get my point across.  The SDA church boasts being the remnant of the original established church.  If that is true then we should not find anything that would cause us to challenge that boast.  The fact is that the church ignores the sixth commandment, so if you use point keep the commandments and refer to them as the 10 commandments as one reason you are the remnant then that is not the truth and I am here to tell the real story.  If that is presenting idle words then refute with some meat.

The other part of my post is dealing with the end time events.  At a conference that Ellen White spoke to a group she used her angel as her backup to tell the crowd that some there at that meeting would be living to see the coming of Jesus.  1856????  Some would be alive to See His coming?  How in this World can you write that what I wrote is disruption and nonsensical?   You have no challenging evidence to offer, so you go into attack mode.  Try to make me seem as a disruption and nonsensical.  What both of you should do is offer an apology and/or communicate your reasons why I am wrong.



Matthew 12:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
And yet thats all you do, why not try to have a honest and respectful discussion rather than tear down and try to destroy with no care for truth.

Offline beam

  • Blessed are the cracked, they are the ones who let in the Light.
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 500
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #27 on: Sun Dec 15, 2019 - 22:14:30 »
And yet thats all you do, why not try to have a honest and respectful discussion rather than tear down and try to destroy with no care for truth.
Hi Hobie, I truly do not agree with what you are peddling.  I have given my reasons from scripture and from your prophet and in turn you, even to this post, attack me personally for not agreeing with what you write.  You don't want a "discussion", I now am sure of that.  You want to have carte blanche use this debate forum to spread your church's belief system without any interruption from the likes of me. 

It has never been in me to sugar coat error and I certainly don't plan to start now.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9482
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #28 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 04:22:41 »
You come to debate or 'win' a argument, that is not my purpose as God wants His truth to be spread not argued to see who is the best 'debater'
So, you can know that by reading my post? Interesting that you have such power, the Pentecostal's may be envious of you for they think they along have that gift from God. But, I will assure you of one thing, I've studied the scriptures for almost fifty years, and will not sit idly by while men like you corrupt my Lord's word. Yes, I give it my very best effort and if you call that the spirit just to win the debate, then so be it, I will not be stopped with men using that tactic against me. God is the righteous Judge and knows all of our hearts and as to why we all are here, and I forbear judging men for this reason and show true Christian/biblical charity and believe the best of men until proven otherwise.
Quote from: Hobie Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 08:12:10
but lets look at the issue here. Worship is the reason for the Sabbath and it is the only day God ever gave us to worship Him on, so we must be careful we don't change to ideas of men. Worship is what the conflict is about...
Emphaisis is mine in red bold letters for the sake of pointing out your errors.

For a sect to be so dogmatic about the reason WHY a certain day of worshipping God is critical one would think that at least they would get the day correct, would they not? The truth is, we worship God 24/7 in spirit and truth~coming together into ONE PLACE is to LEARN how we should worship God in spirit and in truth while we apart from one another! But for sake of brevity let us look at your reason as to WHY did God appointed ONE out of seven days to REST, yes, rest, not necessarily worship, even though true saints worship God 24/7 in spirit and in TRUTH which you folk are missing this all-important truth.

First point: God rested the seventh day after creating all things (Genesis 2:1-3), but He did not require the patriarchs to rest or keep this day for any special religious significance. Though there is much worship of God in Genesis, there is no mention of anyone observing the seventh day to the Lord for worship..........rest without question it was.

God gave the seventh day as a special day of rest to Israel in remembrance of what he did after six days of creating all things.  It was His special sign to them as His covenant nation (See and consider: Exodus 31:12-18; Deuteronomy 5:15; Nehemiah 9:13-14; Ezekiel 20:12,20).

There is no mystery about the seventh day. God could have created in seven hours, seven minutes, seven seconds, or no time at all. He chose seven days, resting the seventh, (not for him to worship, but to set before his covenanted people that they NEEDED rest even their animals! And, after their horrible bondage in the land of Egypt (Exodus 23:12; Deut 5:12-15; Mark 2:27).

Moses wrote Genesis 2:1-3, therefore he referred to the seventh day as being blessed and sanctified from the perspective of God's law to Israel. There is no evidence the seventh day was a creation ordinance for all nations. Not one man prior to Israel under Moses ever saw or read Genesis 2:1-3.

There was confusion in Israel about the seventh day and manna gathering in Exodus 16, which proves that the Israelites had not been observing the Sabbath prior to their departure from Egypt.

The apostles only mentioned the seventh day three times in all the New Testament epistles, and not once did they recommend it as a day of WORSHIP!

The Holy Ghost wrote that the seventh day was a figurative picture of our salvation rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:3-5).

Paul wrote that the seventh day, the Sabbath, was not binding on Christians, for it was only a figurative shadow of the reality of Christ, and true saints rejected such ordinances (Colossians 2:13-23).

Paul wrote that the observance of Jewish days was a private matter of personal liberty (Romans 14:1-23).

Paul considered keeping of Jewish days made the gospel of Jesus Christ of no value (Galatians 4:9-11).

Paul thoroughly compared the Old and New Testaments, showing the inferiority and passing away of the Old, which included the Fourth Commandment written in stone (2nd Corinthians 3:6-18) as far as BINDING, or a necessarily must for salvation.

Jesus kept the seventh day, the Sabbath, for the same reasons He kept the rest of the Jewish laws, like circumcision. He was born a Jew under the laws of the Jews (Galatians 4:4-5; Matthew 5:17; Romans 15:8).

Paul observed the seventh day, the Sabbath, only to win ignorant Jews and Gentile proselytes that were still keeping the Law of Moses (Acts 9:20; 13:14,42; 15:21; 16:13; 17:1-3; 18:4; I Cor 9:20).

Jesus appeared to His disciples on the first day of the week, not the seventh (Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9-14; Luke 24:33-48; John 20:19-25).

Jesus blessed His disciples on the first day of the week, not the seventh (John 20:19).

Jesus gave His disciples the Holy Spirit on the first day of the week, not the seventh (John 20:23).

Many dead saints rose from the dead on the first day of the week, not the seventh (Matt 27:52-53).

The first day of the week, not the seventh, was a time of great joy and gladness at the resurrection of Christ the Lord (Luke 24:41; John 20:20).

Jesus Christ gave forth the promised Holy Spirit from the Father on the first day of the week, not the seventh, for Pentecost was the 50th day after the Sabbath following the wave offering (Leviticus 23:15-16 cp Acts 2:1 cp Acts 2:33). Pentecost was always on the first day of the week, Sunday.

The early church met on the first day of the week for religious worship and breaking bread in the Lord's Supper (Acts 20:6-7).

Paul commanded all the Gentile churches to observe the first day of the week for their religious worship of giving (Ist Corinthians 16:1-2).

When all the apostles and elders met for the only inspired church council in history, the matter at hand was to identify what parts of Moses' law applied to converted Gentiles. With this perfect opportunity, the seventh day issue was totally ignored by the Holy Spirit and these men (Acts 15).

Jesus appeared to John on the Lord's Day, which would have to be Sunday.

With all this, still, the MAIN point of this argument is this: The SEVENTH day was given to REST, not worship~God's saints worship him 24/7 in spirit and in TRUTH, not just on a certain day of the week.

All this being said and more could be~what about our law enforcement folks, hospitals, etc who have to work on let us say Saturday or Sunday~what day should they REST? All of them should practice resting their bodies at least ONE DAY in seven whatever that day may be FOR THEM~Our bodies were created to REST one out of seven days for our physical benefit~PROVEN by the fact that God RESTED the seventh day AFTER six working days...NOT that He needed rest but to show us that WE DO and SHOULD rest one out of seven WHATEVER THAT DAY works best for us. But, that being said, God's elect worships him 24/7 with NO days off in spirit and in truth. Sunday just happened to be the days the disciples came together in one place to fellowship and encourage one another and provoke one another to worship God during their TIME APART from each other!
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 04:33:48 by RB »

Offline 4WD

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12483
  • Manna: 319
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #29 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 04:38:25 »
HEAR!! HEAR!!

+1

The very idea of some particular day of the week as a  "day of worship" is foreign to the whole of the Bible.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #30 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:07:59 »
Hi Hobie, I truly do not agree with what you are peddling.  I have given my reasons from scripture and from your prophet and in turn you, even to this post, attack me personally for not agreeing with what you write.  You don't want a "discussion", I now am sure of that.  You want to have carte blanche use this debate forum to spread your church's belief system without any interruption from the likes of me. 

It has never been in me to sugar coat error and I certainly don't plan to start now.
I don't mind if you don't agree, but notice the title of the thread "The end time order of events and biblical timeline", and yet you fully and purposely tried to derail it. That is not a honest or even less of a respectful exchange of views at any forum.

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #31 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:17:49 »
So, you can know that by reading my post? Interesting that you have such power, the Pentecostal's may be envious of you for they think they along have that gift from God. But, I will assure you of one thing, I've studied the scriptures for almost fifty years, and will not sit idly by while men like you corrupt my Lord's word. Yes, I give it my very best effort and if you call that the spirit just to win the debate, then so be it, I will not be stopped with men using that tactic against me. God is the righteous Judge and knows all of our hearts and as to why we all are here, and I forbear judging men for this reason and show true Christian/biblical charity and believe the best of men until proven otherwise. Emphaisis is mine in red bold letters for the sake of pointing out your errors.

For a sect to be so dogmatic about the reason WHY a certain day of worshipping God is critical one would think that at least they would get the day correct, would they not? The truth is, we worship God 24/7 in spirit and truth~coming together into ONE PLACE is to LEARN how we should worship God in spirit and in truth while we apart from one another! But for sake of brevity let us look at your reason as to WHY did God appointed ONE out of seven days to REST, yes, rest, not necessarily worship, even though true saints worship God 24/7 in spirit and in TRUTH which you folk are missing this all-important truth.

First point: God rested the seventh day after creating all things (Genesis 2:1-3), but He did not require the patriarchs to rest or keep this day for any special religious significance. Though there is much worship of God in Genesis, there is no mention of anyone observing the seventh day to the Lord for worship..........rest without question it was.

God gave the seventh day as a special day of rest to Israel in remembrance of what he did after six days of creating all things.  It was His special sign to them as His covenant nation (See and consider: Exodus 31:12-18; Deuteronomy 5:15; Nehemiah 9:13-14; Ezekiel 20:12,20).

There is no mystery about the seventh day. God could have created in seven hours, seven minutes, seven seconds, or no time at all. He chose seven days, resting the seventh, (not for him to worship, but to set before his covenanted people that they NEEDED rest even their animals! And, after their horrible bondage in the land of Egypt (Exodus 23:12; Deut 5:12-15; Mark 2:27).

Moses wrote Genesis 2:1-3, therefore he referred to the seventh day as being blessed and sanctified from the perspective of God's law to Israel. There is no evidence the seventh day was a creation ordinance for all nations. Not one man prior to Israel under Moses ever saw or read Genesis 2:1-3.

There was confusion in Israel about the seventh day and manna gathering in Exodus 16, which proves that the Israelites had not been observing the Sabbath prior to their departure from Egypt.

The apostles only mentioned the seventh day three times in all the New Testament epistles, and not once did they recommend it as a day of WORSHIP!

The Holy Ghost wrote that the seventh day was a figurative picture of our salvation rest in Christ (Hebrews 4:3-5).

Paul wrote that the seventh day, the Sabbath, was not binding on Christians, for it was only a figurative shadow of the reality of Christ, and true saints rejected such ordinances (Colossians 2:13-23).

Paul wrote that the observance of Jewish days was a private matter of personal liberty (Romans 14:1-23).

Paul considered keeping of Jewish days made the gospel of Jesus Christ of no value (Galatians 4:9-11).

Paul thoroughly compared the Old and New Testaments, showing the inferiority and passing away of the Old, which included the Fourth Commandment written in stone (2nd Corinthians 3:6-18) as far as BINDING, or a necessarily must for salvation.

Jesus kept the seventh day, the Sabbath, for the same reasons He kept the rest of the Jewish laws, like circumcision. He was born a Jew under the laws of the Jews (Galatians 4:4-5; Matthew 5:17; Romans 15:8).

Paul observed the seventh day, the Sabbath, only to win ignorant Jews and Gentile proselytes that were still keeping the Law of Moses (Acts 9:20; 13:14,42; 15:21; 16:13; 17:1-3; 18:4; I Cor 9:20).

Jesus appeared to His disciples on the first day of the week, not the seventh (Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9-14; Luke 24:33-48; John 20:19-25).

Jesus blessed His disciples on the first day of the week, not the seventh (John 20:19).

Jesus gave His disciples the Holy Spirit on the first day of the week, not the seventh (John 20:23).

Many dead saints rose from the dead on the first day of the week, not the seventh (Matt 27:52-53).

The first day of the week, not the seventh, was a time of great joy and gladness at the resurrection of Christ the Lord (Luke 24:41; John 20:20).

Jesus Christ gave forth the promised Holy Spirit from the Father on the first day of the week, not the seventh, for Pentecost was the 50th day after the Sabbath following the wave offering (Leviticus 23:15-16 cp Acts 2:1 cp Acts 2:33). Pentecost was always on the first day of the week, Sunday.

The early church met on the first day of the week for religious worship and breaking bread in the Lord's Supper (Acts 20:6-7).

Paul commanded all the Gentile churches to observe the first day of the week for their religious worship of giving (Ist Corinthians 16:1-2).

When all the apostles and elders met for the only inspired church council in history, the matter at hand was to identify what parts of Moses' law applied to converted Gentiles. With this perfect opportunity, the seventh day issue was totally ignored by the Holy Spirit and these men (Acts 15).

Jesus appeared to John on the Lord's Day, which would have to be Sunday.

With all this, still, the MAIN point of this argument is this: The SEVENTH day was given to REST, not worship~God's saints worship him 24/7 in spirit and in TRUTH, not just on a certain day of the week.

All this being said and more could be~what about our law enforcement folks, hospitals, etc who have to work on let us say Saturday or Sunday~what day should they REST? All of them should practice resting their bodies at least ONE DAY in seven whatever that day may be FOR THEM~Our bodies were created to REST one out of seven days for our physical benefit~PROVEN by the fact that God RESTED the seventh day AFTER six working days...NOT that He needed rest but to show us that WE DO and SHOULD rest one out of seven WHATEVER THAT DAY works best for us. But, that being said, God's elect worships him 24/7 with NO days off in spirit and in truth. Sunday just happened to be the days the disciples came together in one place to fellowship and encourage one another and provoke one another to worship God during their TIME APART from each other!
Being sarcastic and deriding is not going to win you any points in anyone's book, much less help your argument. But lets look at more of who claims they changed the Sabbath to another day...

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

"All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible." The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

"... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

'Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'' Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

"But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." The Faith of Millions


"Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

'If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.' Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

'It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.'Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ on March 18, 1903. This Rock


'Of course these .. quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame ' This Rock,The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997


'The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church.' Monsignor Louis Segur, 'Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today';, p. 213.

So there had to be a select day that God made for man at Creation for the Catholic Church to say they had the authority to change. So the Sabbath is pretty clear even for them...
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:20:11 by Hobie »

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #32 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:27:43 »
There are even more statements on the Sabbath, the Catholic Church is very clear on this:

"The retention of the old pagan name of Dies Solis, for Sunday is, in a great measure, owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects - pagan and Christian alike - as the 'venerable' day of the sun."" Arthur P. Stanley, History of the Eastern Church, p. 184

"When St. Paul repudiated the works of the law, he was not thinking of the Ten Commandments, which are as unchangeable as God Himself is, which God could not change and still remain the infinitely holy God."-Our Sunday Visitor, Oct. 7, I951.

"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays?
Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church." Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p.58 (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris [1916 ed.], p.67)

"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the NEW LAW, that he himself has explicitly substituted sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as holy days. The church chose sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days." John Laux A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies 1936, vol.1 p.51

"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and... can be defended only on Catholic principles.... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." Catholic Press, Aug. 25, 1900
"The Sabbath was Saturday, not Sunday. The Church altered the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of Sunday. Protestants must be rather puzzled by the keeping of Sunday when God distinctly said, 'Keep holy the Sabbath Day.' The word Sunday does not come anywhere in the Bible, so, without knowing it they are obeying the authority of the Catholic Church." Canon Cafferata, The Catechism Explained, p. 89.

''Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.'' John Cardinal Gibbons, The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893

So we can set aside the argument that any other day other than the Sabbath is the day of rest made for man by the Creator. Now lets look at its importance and what Christ did by His example..

Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #33 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:37:16 »
Jesus Christ is “Lord even of the Sabbath day” as the Creator and never changed it. Jesus said,“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8. By identifying Himself as “Lord even of the Sabbath day,” Jesus was showing that He was the One who originally created Earth in six days, and rested on the seventh day. And the New Testament makes clear that Jesus is the Creator...

"All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made." John 1:3

"He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not". John 1:10

"God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Eph. 3:9

"For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Col. 1:16

So scripture makes clear Jesus Christ is our Creator and also gave us the Sabbath for man not just the Jews.

"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"Mark 2:27

Not only did Jesus create the Sabbath but He makes clear it was the seventh day and Holy...
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23

Now you can check the scriptures and it will make clear the Sabbath is on Saturday, while Sunday is "the first day of the week". Jesus Christ regularly kept the Sabbath, taught much about the Sabbath, and clearly stated that He is "Lord even of the Sabbath day" (Mat. 12:8). Jesus Christ never mentioned "the first day of the week" even one time. He taught nothing about it. The Sabbath continues after the cross (Luke 23:54-56) and was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:42-44). There is no biblical authorization for the change of the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.

God made the Sabbath at the beginning of the world (Gen. 2:1-3) before any Jews existed, to be a blessing to all people. Most importantly, it is a special sign that Jesus Christ is the true Creator of heaven and earth ( John 1:1-3, 10).

When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life. Luke 4:16 "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.¨ Thus Jesus set the example in His life here and as the Creator in the beginning.


Offline Hobie

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1964
  • Manna: 17
Re: The end time order of events and biblical timeline.
« Reply #34 on: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:38:34 »
Now lets look at the claim that the Sabbath doesnt exist anymore because Christ didnt teach it or repeat it as part of the Commandments, so what did Jesus say?

According to the following verse I’d say that Christ had every intention that His Sabbath would still be observed after His death:

Matthew 24:20 - But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The context of this verse is that Christ was warning the disciples about the destruction of Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 AD at the hands of the Roman army. Christ prophesied that this event would happen and it did (Christ is never wrong). Why would Christ be concerned that people observe the Sabbath day at a time that would have been about 40 years after His death if His death was supposed to abolish it? Simple, He wouldn't be concerned if that were the case, but since the Sabbath, like all His Commandments last forever, He was very concerned and told them to pray concerning it.

Also, the Holy Spirit expressly calls it the “Sabbath day” in Acts 13:14. Aren’t the words of the Holy Spirit good enough since the Holy Spirit is the one who now convicts us of our sin?

Christ clearly taught that "the sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. The fact is that Adam was the only man in existence at the time God made the Sabbath. Jesus was the One who made the Sabbath in the first week of time. There was a reason for His claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day (Mark 2:28). If He is the Lord of the Sabbath day, then the Sabbath must be the Lord's day. John had a vision on "the Lord's day," according to Revelation 1:10. That day had to be the Sabbath. It is the only day so designated and claimed by God in the Bible. In writing the Ten Commandments, God called it "the sabbath of the Lord." Exodus 20:10. In Isaiah He is quoted as saying, "The sabbath, My holy day." (Isaiah 58:13).

We must not overlook the fact that this God who created the world and made the Sabbath was Jesus Christ Himself. John wrote: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth." John 1:1-3, 14.

Paul clearly identified Jesus as the Creator, "... his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood.... For by him were all things created." Colossians 1:13-16.
For Christians to separate Jesus from the Sabbath, who made it as the Creator for man, is wrong.

Mary, Christ’s mother, observed the Sabbath “according to the commandment” after Christ’s death.(See Luke 23:56) And I don't think anyone would argue that Mary was most certainly Christian.

The Sabbath commandment did not have to be repeated because the people to whom Jesus Christ and the apostles taught and preached would never have let it cross their minds that it needed to be repeated. It was foremost in their minds every Sabbath.

Jesus Christ and the apostles lived and taught in a culture that definitely knew about and kept the Sabbath. Jesus’ confrontations with the Pharisees were over how to observe the Sabbath, never over whether to observe it as the Pharisees had twisted it with all their oral traditions and rules.
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 16, 2019 - 06:45:48 by Hobie »