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Author Topic: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....  (Read 20143 times)

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Offline Hobie

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #35 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 10:29:56 »
To be honest, claiming special insight from the Holy Spirit in contrast to traditional thought is not limited to Ms. White.

I am not sure what you are getting at.......

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #35 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 10:29:56 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #36 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 10:31:29 »

You have forgotten that the 'testimony of Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy', so these according to scripture would not be her own musings, if you check out background you will see she had neither the schooling or theological level of seminary or university. Read through the writings and make a personal evaluation of them, dont take my word or others, read it for yourself and prayerfully see what the Holy Spirit reveals in what is written.



And the Scripture clearly tells us to evaluate and judge prophecy.  The best standard for doing that is not how it makes us feel, but the objective standard of the Scripture itself.


Correct my brother, that is why I gave you the site and there are other studies I can point to but dont want to clutter...

http://www.seventh-day.org/testsofproph.htm

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #36 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 10:31:29 »

Tantor

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #37 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 10:34:04 »
To be honest, claiming special insight from the Holy Spirit in contrast to traditional thought is not limited to Ms. White.

I am not sure what you are getting at.......

Morman's, Christian Scientists... etc.  There are a ton of cults out there all claiming they are divinely appointed by some extra-biblical prophet(ess).

Offline zoonance

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #38 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 12:26:42 »
To be honest, claiming special insight from the Holy Spirit in contrast to traditional thought is not limited to Ms. White.

I am not sure what you are getting at.......

Morman's, Christian Scientists... etc.  There are a ton of cults out there all claiming they are divinely appointed by some extra-biblical prophet(ess).



and some on the Forum as well.

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #38 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 12:26:42 »

Offline Hobie

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #39 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 15:36:28 »
To be honest, claiming special insight from the Holy Spirit in contrast to traditional thought is not limited to Ms. White.

I am not sure what you are getting at.......

Morman's, Christian Scientists... etc.  There are a ton of cults out there all claiming they are divinely appointed by some extra-biblical prophet(ess).


and some without Bibles at all... ::smile::

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #39 on: Fri Mar 13, 2009 - 15:36:28 »



Amo

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #40 on: Sun Mar 15, 2009 - 08:39:13 »
Quote
And the Scripture clearly tells us to evaluate and judge prophecy.  The best standard for doing that is not how it makes us feel, but the objective standard of the Scripture itself.

BINGO!  Scripture is the bottom line.  Apparently even EGW says the same.

Two things are evident though regarding prophets.  Number one, they are human beings, and therefore not perfect.  They themselves must be corrected on occasion, and do not always even correctly understand, or understand at all what God has revealed to them through vision, or what ever means He chooses.  They must learn at the feet of Jesus just like everyone else.

Just because they are prophets, doesn't mean that every word that ever comes out of their mouths, comes directly from God either.  God does not give them total insight regarding all things, and they have opinions just like everyone else.  Add to this the fact that others are likely to take their words, and twist or mutilate them, just like many do with the scriptures, then your statement above becomes all the more important.  The scriptures are the bottom line. 

Lets face it, in this world, a true prophet will suffer persecution, false accusations, misrepresentation, and condemnation by the majority.  This is what happened to all the biblical prophets, Apostles, and even Jesus Christ Himself.  Therefore, the bible must be the bottom line for determining the authenticity of anyone claiming to be a prophet.  There are many books written about EGW, and others attacking or defending the same.  Simply choosing to read one or the other, is choosing to believe what someone else has to say about the subject.  If we want to judge wether a person is a prophet or not, we should examine their writings ourelves, and compare them with scripture.

On the other hand, we could just immerse ourselves in the word of God seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit concerning the same.  If we do this, we can't go wrong.  The scripture is clear.

2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.




Offline Hobie

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #41 on: Fri Apr 03, 2009 - 19:29:28 »
Excellent post...

Offline saul

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #42 on: Tue Jan 11, 2011 - 20:30:34 »
The remnant of Rev 12  is the very last thing that anyone should want to be as it is the Remnant that are Left "after" first the Saints are taken alive and then the rest of the Christian commandment keepers are taken to a place of safety and fed there three and a half Years, and unfortunately there are more who were Not as Diligent but also were Commandment keepers and these are the Remnant as it suggests they remain as the last in order of righteousness and shall face tribulation Head on, I believe that the SDA are a great Church one of the better ones! Please check this out, and remember Satan Attacks ALL of Christ's Churches None are immune,  the problem lies with the Understanding of the Woman the Man Child and the Remnant, the woman is the greater Church community probably many denominations whom are faithful to a good degree and she gives birth to the Man child which is the best part of her Faithful ones the Saints! the Man Child is not Christ but it is those saints that shall be given to rule with a rod of iron as shall Christ who is in them shall, and the remnant is those remaining that shall keep themselves to some degree as commandment keepers but never the less they shall be in tribulation yet shall be saved in Judgement.

The Woman = The Church/The Man Child = the Bridegroom "the saints"/The Remnant = those commandment keepers who are left.

Offline robert two

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #43 on: Mon Jan 17, 2011 - 15:45:06 »
 4SGa page 36 Aaron's rod.
Here we have the answer to where the REMNANT will come from.
Must be due any day now.

EGW words.
recorded for a warning to GOD'S PEOPLE especially those who live upon the earth near the close of time.

So friends take great care this is going to happen soon.
The ROD is still in full bloom and is white almond not pink.
GOD knew about us and told MOSES in Numbers 17:10 To be kept for a toke against the REBELS.
EXODUS 16:33
and lay it up before the LORD to be kept for your generations.

GOD is very kind. Take great care.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #44 on: Thu Feb 03, 2011 - 07:31:10 »
It is in the Fundemantal Beliefs..
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Well rather than take someones word or the church's, why dont you honestly check out what she has written and see what you decide in your heart as the Holy Spirit guides you.   http://www.whiteestate.org/


This is the same tactic that Mormons use with the Book of Mormon.  It is the same tactics that Jehovah's Witnesses use with Watchtower material.  It is set up from the beginning much like poisoning the well to lead people to a preconceived conclusion that if they read it they are supposed to come to the conclusion that it is true.  If it really were true, no such admonishment would be necessary, the writings would be able to stand on their own merits just as the living words of God have in the Bible for milleniums of time.  The carrot is that if you don't come away believing E.G.W. is a prophetess, then you are not guided by the Holy Spirt.  Epic Fail.

SDA's claim that the gift of prophecy is the identifying mark of the 'remnant' of the church, and yet, supposedly, the only person within the church to have this gift so far is E.G.W.  That is odd, by itself, because surely if the gift of prophecy is an identifying mark, there should be all kinds of people within the SDA hierarchy with this gift giving prophecies just as eaqual and perhaps greater than E.G.W.  Throughout the Bible we see God sending numerous prophets to His people in both the Old and New testaments, so where are the other SDA prophets if the SDA church is truly this last 'remnant' of the church?  Why is E.G.W. the only recognized prophet, especially when her prophecies have been proven time and again to be false?

Acts 2:16-18  16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:  17 "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.  18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.   

Contrary to your claims, this out-pouring of the Holy Spirit began that day, at Pentecost and has continued and continues up to this day.  It is not limited to some special 'remnant,' it is for every member of the Body of Christ who wishes to accept it.  Nowhere do we find this out-pouring of the Holy Spirit confined to some special remnant or only for a specific time.  That is false.  And surely if this was speaking to the SDA church as some special and favored 'remnant' then your church would be bursting at the seams with prophets since your church itself claims this special gift.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #45 on: Thu Feb 03, 2011 - 07:46:08 »
Quote
And the Scripture clearly tells us to evaluate and judge prophecy.  The best standard for doing that is not how it makes us feel, but the objective standard of the Scripture itself.

BINGO!  Scripture is the bottom line.  Apparently even EGW says the same.

Two things are evident though regarding prophets.  Number one, they are human beings, and therefore not perfect.  They themselves must be corrected on occasion, and do not always even correctly understand, or understand at all what God has revealed to them through vision, or what ever means He chooses.  They must learn at the feet of Jesus just like everyone else.

Just because they are prophets, doesn't mean that every word that ever comes out of their mouths, comes directly from God either.  God does not give them total insight regarding all things, and they have opinions just like everyone else.  Add to this the fact that others are likely to take their words, and twist or mutilate them, just like many do with the scriptures, then your statement above becomes all the more important.  The scriptures are the bottom line. 

Lets face it, in this world, a true prophet will suffer persecution, false accusations, misrepresentation, and condemnation by the majority.  This is what happened to all the biblical prophets, Apostles, and even Jesus Christ Himself.  Therefore, the bible must be the bottom line for determining the authenticity of anyone claiming to be a prophet.  There are many books written about EGW, and others attacking or defending the same.  Simply choosing to read one or the other, is choosing to believe what someone else has to say about the subject.  If we want to judge wether a person is a prophet or not, we should examine their writings ourelves, and compare them with scripture.

On the other hand, we could just immerse ourselves in the word of God seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit concerning the same.  If we do this, we can't go wrong.  The scripture is clear.

2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Contrary to your assertions above, scripture gives us a clear and well-defined test as to who is a prophet and who is not, once the claim is made.

Deuteronomy 13:1-4  If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,  2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" "and let us worship them,"  3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.  4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

SDA's make no distinction when referring to the writings of E.G.W. as to what is inspired and what is not.  You treat all of her writings as if they are inspired, so if any one single part of it is wrong, that makes her a false prophet, according to scriptural guidelines.  Therefore, you cannot use a "humans are fallible and make mistakes" defense for her.  Humans are fallible and make mistakes, but not when under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  If that were true, we would not be able to rely on one single word of the Bible.  Prophets in both the OT and NT clearly demarcated when they were speaking for God, and when they were not.  They left no doubt.

I have seen you, and djconklin and Hobie claim time after time what E.G.W. said about herself and her writings.  That has no validity and carries no weight.  The only applicable reasoning is how the SDA church views her writings and you view them as being equal to scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:29  Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

Someone is not automatically a prophet just because they, or someone else says they are.  If the SDA hierarchy was wise, and really believed as you wrote above, they would break down E.G.W.'s writings into categories of what was inspired and what was not so you could dismiss the parts that are obviously false and distance yourself from them, especially medical claims that we know from science are 100% false.  The main problem is not with E.G.W., it is with the way the SDA treats and represents her writings.

Amo

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #46 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 11:06:14 »
Quote
Contrary to your assertions above, scripture gives us a clear and well-defined test as to who is a prophet and who is not, once the claim is made.

Deuteronomy 13:1-4  If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,  2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" "and let us worship them,"  3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.  4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

SDA's make no distinction when referring to the writings of E.G.W. as to what is inspired and what is not.  You treat all of her writings as if they are inspired, so if any one single part of it is wrong, that makes her a false prophet, according to scriptural guidelines.  Therefore, you cannot use a "humans are fallible and make mistakes" defense for her.  Humans are fallible and make mistakes, but not when under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  If that were true, we would not be able to rely on one single word of the Bible.  Prophets in both the OT and NT clearly demarcated when they were speaking for God, and when they were not.  They left no doubt.

I have seen you, and djconklin and Hobie claim time after time what E.G.W. said about herself and her writings.  That has no validity and carries no weight.  The only applicable reasoning is how the SDA church views her writings and you view them as being equal to scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:29  Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.

Someone is not automatically a prophet just because they, or someone else says they are.  If the SDA hierarchy was wise, and really believed as you wrote above, they would break down E.G.W.'s writings into categories of what was inspired and what was not so you could dismiss the parts that are obviously false and distance yourself from them, especially medical claims that we know from science are 100% false.  The main problem is not with E.G.W., it is with the way the SDA treats and represents her writings.

I don't see anything in the quote you are referring to, which denies that scripture - "gives us a clear and well-defined test as to who is a prophet and who is not".  To the contrary, it all seems to be saying that scripture is the bottom line.  So I'm not even sure where you are coming from on this one.

All prophets are and were human and fallible.  They all do, and did make mistakes.  We must all examine their writings in light of the same, and closely compare them to scripture for verification and or approval.  Anyone who believes every word that came out of EGW's, or anyone's mouth for that matter, was or is directly from God and should be considered as such, is making a serious mistake.  With the exception of Christ alone, of course.

larry2

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #47 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 12:43:45 »

Honest is within ones heart, God places it there so we can know between what is right and what is wrong. If we ask, the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth but we have to want to know the truth.


Without EGW's prophesies, would you have come to your conclusions of end times?

Offline saul

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #48 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 18:15:27 »
I Love the SDA's for the Most Part! it is particularly agonizing for me to see this error in the discernment of the Rev indicating  the Groups that are heading for Very different Kinds of Salvation, it is Simple but No Doubt will provoke arguments!.


The Woman= the Christian Church (which may be made up from several Denoms!) and obtains a degree of Safety from the Terrifying Events to Come having been removed from the Grasp of Satan's deceived masses etc.

The Manchild = the Elect amongst the Saints which come out of the Churches and are in a Greater state of Righteousness, it is these whom shall make up the Bride with Christ.

The Remnant = The remaining element of Christians whom Keep the Commandments and probably those whom have Not done Evil Unto the Children of God but have supported them even unknowingly.

The first Argument most seem to give against this teaching is that the Manchild is Christ Himself as he is described as the One who shall Rule all nations with a rod of Iron, but we Know that Christ is going to make Kings and rulers who shall rule with a rod of Iron as does he even in them, and it is not possible that the Woman (Church) could give birth to Christ as the Church was born of Christ.

 Rev Ch12 V5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

P.S the Remnant are going to face Tribulation Head on, Not Nice!.

Offline djconklin

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #49 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 19:19:37 »
>Without EGW's prophesies, would you have come to your conclusions of end times?

Please point us to these "prophesies."

Amo

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #50 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 19:23:38 »
Quote
Without EGW's prophesies, would you have come to your conclusions of end times?
   
You will have to be more specific. Much, if not most of what SDA's believe about biblical prophecy was propagated by the Reformers and Protestant denominations which existed before it.  The Sabbath truth itself was introduced to us by a Seventh Day Baptist woman.  The 2300 day prophecy concerning the timing of it's fulfillment was introduced by a Baptist preacher named William Miller, though the event he predicted was wrong.  The correct event to take place at the end of the said prophecy did not come to the SDA Church through EGW either, but through a man named Hiram Ebson.  Of course at the time of these events, there were no Seventh Day Adventist's.  All the founders were members of other Protestant denominations including EGW who was a Methodist.  

larry2

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #51 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 19:24:01 »

>Without EGW's prophesies, would you have come to your conclusions of end times?

Please point us to these "prophesies."



Sorry, I thought she made some prophesies concerning end times, or at least explaining them. She didn't?

Amo

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #52 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 19:45:33 »
Quote
Sorry, I thought she made some prophesies concerning end times, or at least explaining them. She didn't?

Yes, she wrote much about the same.  Much of what she believed though, was already believed and preached by Protestants before her.  This is why you would have to be more specific. 

larry2

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #53 on: Fri Feb 04, 2011 - 19:58:10 »
Quote
Sorry, I thought she made some prophesies concerning end times, or at least explaining them. She didn't?

Yes, she wrote much about the same.  Much of what she believed though, was already believed and preached by Protestants before her.  This is why you would have to be more specific. 


I'm not aware how to ask a question any clearer. Is there any new revelation made known, any prophesy, or and teaching made by EGW that influences what Hobie believes to be the leading of the Holy Spirit as to truth? Did she make any prophesies at all that influences SDA doctrine?

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #54 on: Sat Feb 05, 2011 - 20:06:06 »

I don't see anything in the quote you are referring to, which denies that scripture - "gives us a clear and well-defined test as to who is a prophet and who is not".  To the contrary, it all seems to be saying that scripture is the bottom line.  So I'm not even sure where you are coming from on this one.

All prophets are and were human and fallible.  They all do, and did make mistakes.  We must all examine their writings in light of the same, and closely compare them to scripture for verification and or approval.  Anyone who believes every word that came out of EGW's, or anyone's mouth for that matter, was or is directly from God and should be considered as such, is making a serious mistake.  With the exception of Christ alone, of course.

Surely you are joking.  You have clear scripture giving us the standard by which we are to judge who is and is not a prophet.
And yet you keep repeating that prophets are fallible.  Please provide scripture which tells us that.  If prophets were fallible, we would not be able to trust them.  We would have to throw out the majority of the Bible.

Deuteronomy 18:18-22  18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.  19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.  20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."  21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"  22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Again, your claim that all prophets are human and fallible is false.  You cannot use that out when talking about the prophesies of E.G.W.  You claim that she is a prophet and that she has the "gift" of prophesy, do you not?  In the scripture above, God plainly says he will "put my words in his mouth."  That means if a prophet makes a mistake, after God has placed His words in the prophet's mouth, that God is the one actually making the mistake.  Only we know that is not possible.  So it would be the prophet making the mistake and it would be because God did not actually give the prophet the words to say.  Those are the only two options.  Because as God Himself states above, under God's direction through the Holy Spirt, the prophet will not make a mistake.  If he does, he is not a prophet and he isn't speaking what the Lord gave him.  That is the litmus test for who is, and conversely, who is not a true prophet.  A true prophet doesn not make a mistake when truly speaking for God.  The portion of scripture above clearly states that.

So you have a few problems.  First of all, it seems that even within your own organization, you can't agree on whether E.G.W. was a prophet or not.  You seem to imply she was, djconklin seems to indicate that she was not and never gave any prophecies.  Which is it?  She either was a prophet or she was not.  Your church hierarchy claims she was.  That she had the gift of prophecy and there would be no way that they could claim that gift existed within her unless they felt she had been observed or recorded exercising that gift.  Nobody can say I have the gift of tongues unless they actually observe me operating in it.  So SDA's claim she was a prophet, and that she spoke for God.  Only she said things that were false.  The SDA church makes absolutely no distiction as to which writings and prophecies of E.G.W.'s were made under divine inspiration and which ones were not under divine inspiration, you consider them all inspired.  So just one mistake in them means she is not a prophet, according to the above test.  So if you are going to claim that she is fallible and made a mistake, you are going to have to be able to deliniate for us which writings of E.G.W. were not written under divine inspiration, and which writings of E.G.W. should not be considered prophecy.

Also, why is it so difficult to give Larry a simple answer to his question?

Amo

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #55 on: Sun Feb 06, 2011 - 11:59:06 »
Quote
Surely you are joking.  You have clear scripture giving us the standard by which we are to judge who is and is not a prophet.
And yet you keep repeating that prophets are fallible.  Please provide scripture which tells us that.  If prophets were fallible, we would not be able to trust them.  We would have to throw out the majority of the Bible.

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding.  I do not mean to imply in any way shape or form, that the word of God is fallible.  The bible is a manuscript of messages given to the world through the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God upon chosen individuals, or a direct message to them from Angels of God, and occasionally God Himself.  The bible is the inspired word of God, not man.

The prophets however, were, and always will be sinners just like you and I.  In an of themselves they are certainly fallible.  Obviously, those words given to a prophet directly by God, should not be questioned.  We have examples in scripture, where prophets have spoken, and acted wrongly.  These words and actions were obviously not inspired by God.  No doubt either, these were recorded to keep the prophet, and God, in their proper perspectives.

Quote
Deuteronomy 18:18-22  18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.  19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.  20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."  21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"  22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

The prophet being spoken of in the above verses is Christ Himself.  Many could claim Him to be a false prophet, since all which He predicted has not yet come to pass.  The same could be said of most of the Apostles, if not all of them.  There has not been a prophet yet, that I know of, that has not had to endure the ridicule of being a false prophet by non believers, until their prophecies are actually fulfilled.  It is just the nature and condition of this world in rebellion against God.

Quote
Again, your claim that all prophets are human and fallible is false.  You cannot use that out when talking about the prophesies of E.G.W.  You claim that she is a prophet and that she has the "gift" of prophesy, do you not?  In the scripture above, God plainly says he will "put my words in his mouth."  That means if a prophet makes a mistake, after God has placed His words in the prophet's mouth, that God is the one actually making the mistake.  Only we know that is not possible.  So it would be the prophet making the mistake and it would be because God did not actually give the prophet the words to say.  Those are the only two options.  Because as God Himself states above, under God's direction through the Holy Spirt, the prophet will not make a mistake.  If he does, he is not a prophet and he isn't speaking what the Lord gave him.  That is the litmus test for who is, and conversely, who is not a true prophet.  A true prophet doesn not make a mistake when truly speaking for God.  The portion of scripture above clearly states that.

I have never said, or believed that a prophet who is speaking for God by way of revelation from the same, can be mistaken.  I don’t know where you are getting this idea from.  Moses was a great prophet of God.  Yet at the age of forty he murdered an Egyptian in defense of a Jew.  At which point God removed from Egypt for forty years in order to prepare him to properly deliver Israel by the hand of God, not man.  Forty years later at the borders of the promised land Moses erred.  He attributed the deliverance of Israel, and God’s forbearance with them to himself, and was thus forbidden to enter the promised land.  Elijah also faltered before God when confronted by Jezebel, and others also made mistakes.  This is because they were human and fallible.  Yet when they spoke under direct revelation from God, their words certainly were not.

Quote
So you have a few problems.  First of all, it seems that even within your own organization, you can't agree on whether E.G.W. was a prophet or not.  You seem to imply she was, djconklin seems to indicate that she was not and never gave any prophecies.  Which is it?
 

I’m afraid you are the one who is confused upon this point. I don’t know any SDA’s on this board that are denying she was a prophetess. If there are, let them say so.   

Quote
She either was a prophet or she was not.  Your church hierarchy claims she was.  That she had the gift of prophecy and there would be no way that they could claim that gift existed within her unless they felt she had been observed or recorded exercising that gift.  Nobody can say I have the gift of tongues unless they actually observe me operating in it.


Actually anybody can say anything they want, and often do make false claims, which is why we are having this conversation.

Quote
So SDA's claim she was a prophet, and that she spoke for God.  Only she said things that were false.
 

So says you.  I have personally pointed out numerous lies on these very message boards concerning the same.  Those who propagate them, seem to care less that they have spoken lies regarding EGW, as though they will be of no consequence when they stand before God in judgment.  I tell you the truth, even if EGW was a false prophet, those who have thought they can lie about her, or anyone else with impunity before God are seriously mistaken.  “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Offline Hobie

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #56 on: Tue Feb 28, 2012 - 11:55:00 »
Quote
Surely you are joking.  You have clear scripture giving us the standard by which we are to judge who is and is not a prophet.
And yet you keep repeating that prophets are fallible.  Please provide scripture which tells us that.  If prophets were fallible, we would not be able to trust them.  We would have to throw out the majority of the Bible.

Perhaps we have a misunderstanding.  I do not mean to imply in any way shape or form, that the word of God is fallible.  The bible is a manuscript of messages given to the world through the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God upon chosen individuals, or a direct message to them from Angels of God, and occasionally God Himself.  The bible is the inspired word of God, not man.

The prophets however, were, and always will be sinners just like you and I.  In an of themselves they are certainly fallible.  Obviously, those words given to a prophet directly by God, should not be questioned.  We have examples in scripture, where prophets have spoken, and acted wrongly.  These words and actions were obviously not inspired by God.  No doubt either, these were recorded to keep the prophet, and God, in their proper perspectives.

Quote
Deuteronomy 18:18-22  18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.  19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.  20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."  21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?"  22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

The prophet being spoken of in the above verses is Christ Himself.  Many could claim Him to be a false prophet, since all which He predicted has not yet come to pass.  The same could be said of most of the Apostles, if not all of them.  There has not been a prophet yet, that I know of, that has not had to endure the ridicule of being a false prophet by non believers, until their prophecies are actually fulfilled.  It is just the nature and condition of this world in rebellion against God.

Quote
Again, your claim that all prophets are human and fallible is false.  You cannot use that out when talking about the prophesies of E.G.W.  You claim that she is a prophet and that she has the "gift" of prophesy, do you not?  In the scripture above, God plainly says he will "put my words in his mouth."  That means if a prophet makes a mistake, after God has placed His words in the prophet's mouth, that God is the one actually making the mistake.  Only we know that is not possible.  So it would be the prophet making the mistake and it would be because God did not actually give the prophet the words to say.  Those are the only two options.  Because as God Himself states above, under God's direction through the Holy Spirt, the prophet will not make a mistake.  If he does, he is not a prophet and he isn't speaking what the Lord gave him.  That is the litmus test for who is, and conversely, who is not a true prophet.  A true prophet doesn not make a mistake when truly speaking for God.  The portion of scripture above clearly states that.

I have never said, or believed that a prophet who is speaking for God by way of revelation from the same, can be mistaken.  I don’t know where you are getting this idea from.  Moses was a great prophet of God.  Yet at the age of forty he murdered an Egyptian in defense of a Jew.  At which point God removed from Egypt for forty years in order to prepare him to properly deliver Israel by the hand of God, not man.  Forty years later at the borders of the promised land Moses erred.  He attributed the deliverance of Israel, and God’s forbearance with them to himself, and was thus forbidden to enter the promised land.  Elijah also faltered before God when confronted by Jezebel, and others also made mistakes.  This is because they were human and fallible.  Yet when they spoke under direct revelation from God, their words certainly were not.

Quote
So you have a few problems.  First of all, it seems that even within your own organization, you can't agree on whether E.G.W. was a prophet or not.  You seem to imply she was, djconklin seems to indicate that she was not and never gave any prophecies.  Which is it?
 

I’m afraid you are the one who is confused upon this point. I don’t know any SDA’s on this board that are denying she was a prophetess. If there are, let them say so.   

Quote
She either was a prophet or she was not.  Your church hierarchy claims she was.  That she had the gift of prophecy and there would be no way that they could claim that gift existed within her unless they felt she had been observed or recorded exercising that gift.  Nobody can say I have the gift of tongues unless they actually observe me operating in it.


Actually anybody can say anything they want, and often do make false claims, which is why we are having this conversation.

Quote
So SDA's claim she was a prophet, and that she spoke for God.  Only she said things that were false.
 

So says you.  I have personally pointed out numerous lies on these very message boards concerning the same.  Those who propagate them, seem to care less that they have spoken lies regarding EGW, as though they will be of no consequence when they stand before God in judgment.  I tell you the truth, even if EGW was a false prophet, those who have thought they can lie about her, or anyone else with impunity before God are seriously mistaken.  “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #57 on: Tue Feb 28, 2012 - 12:26:09 »
Quote
Adventism takes what the Reformers had and continues from where they stopped and formed into creeds once the individual reformer passed from the scene. If they had continued in reading scripture and letting God unveil His truths, they would have come to where Adventism is today, plain and simple.....
Perhaps.  Or they may have gone beyond the SDA and ended up in Messianic Judaism.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #58 on: Wed Feb 29, 2012 - 05:12:44 »
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Why don’t you be specific, instead leaving the mind open to unanswered negative innuendo?
I have explained myself here and elsewhere several times. 

IMO the revelation of Sabbath was true.  But it should not have stopped there. 

But having said that, God frequently moves people a generation or 2 at a time. Eventually there would have been a fuller revelation of the restoration of the Jewishness of the gospel, the unique covenantal calling on the Jewish people and the importance of a Jewish lifestyle.

Offline current occupant

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #59 on: Sat Apr 28, 2012 - 11:22:53 »
How can the Seventh-day Adventist denomination be the remnant of the book of Revelation.


  • The reference to 'remnant' in the book of revelation does not refer to a denomination.
  • The Seventh-day Adventist denomination does not 'keep' the commandments of God.   
  • The Seventh-day Adventist denomination does not 'have' the testimony of Jesus nor do they have a Biblical understanding of it.


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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #60 on: Sun Apr 29, 2012 - 16:08:35 »
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How can the Seventh-day Adventist denomination be the remnant of the book of Revelation.


    The reference to 'remnant' in the book of revelation does not refer to a denomination.
    The Seventh-day Adventist denomination does not 'keep' the commandments of God.   
    The Seventh-day Adventist denomination does not 'have' the testimony of Jesus nor do they have a Biblical understanding of it.

Here we are.  Back up your statement by way of correcting false doctrine.  On the other hand, I'm sure the remnant will not be a denomination, but all those who believed and submitted to the truth.  Which of course I believe many SDA's do, while many others I know increasingly do not.

Offline Hobie

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #61 on: Sat Sep 08, 2012 - 05:42:58 »
How can the Seventh-day Adventist denomination be the remnant of the book of Revelation.


 
  • The reference to 'remnant' in the book of revelation does not refer to a denomination.
  • The Seventh-day Adventist denomination does not 'keep' the commandments of God.   
  • The Seventh-day Adventist denomination does not 'have' the testimony of Jesus nor do they have a Biblical understanding of it.

So who are you putting forward that does follow the Commandments and has the faith of Jesus. The Sunday keeping denomonations following Rome cannot qualify, Islam, Buddhaism and Hinduism certainly cannot, and the fallen apostate church of Rome or Eastern Orthodox are the furthest from truth in Christianity. So who would you put forward...

Offline DaveW

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #62 on: Mon Sep 10, 2012 - 08:49:07 »
....but who are the Remnant?

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

According to Acts 15 the Gentiles do NOT keep those commandments (or at least are not required to do so) so the remnant referred to here is the Messianic Jews.

Jews were given the oracles of God (Rom 3) and the Messianic Jews have the Testimony of Jesus (Yeshua). And many have an ongoing use of the gift of Prophecy.
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 10, 2012 - 08:52:18 by DaveW »

Offline drewhemm

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #63 on: Wed Dec 05, 2012 - 18:31:57 »
According to Acts 15 the Gentiles do NOT keep those commandments (or at least are not required to do so) so the remnant referred to here is the Messianic Jews.

This is taking Acts 15 out of context in a major way and it is quite easy to see that. The law that was being discussed here was the law of Moses, the book that was kept in the side of the Ark of the covenant:

Deutoronomio 31:24-27

24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

This is the law that Paul said was nailed to the cross. You can drive a nail through a book:

Colosians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

Try doing that with a tablet of stone: you'll seen realise the metaphor doesn't fit.

Notice Paul uses the wording "against us" to demonstrate the connection between these handwritten ordinances and the book of the law written by Moses which was "a witness against thee".

This is where we as Adventists stand out from the majority of Christians, who believe there were two laws nailed to the cross (that of Moses and that of God) and Messianic Jews who believe either that no law was repealed or that it is only binding upon them, as if God was only the God of the Jews - Romans 3:29 and 6:15.

Please demonstrate how God's law, as written by Him on tablets of stone was somehow "against us". Look at the references in the New Testament where Paul contrasts law and grace, is he talking about the Ten Commandments or the law of Moses?:

Romans 2:25 "For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."

Please show where circumcision is ever mentioned in relation to the Ten Commandments.

On the other hand, every time the Ten Commandments are quoted in the New Testament, they are shown in a positive light. Romans 13:8-10, James 2:8-12.

There is also the subject of the "works of the law". Naturally; the law of Moses included many works that the Jewish people had to perform to either identify them or help them understand the covenant they had entered into it; circumcision was one of them. Show me a single work in the Ten Commandments. All ten of the Ten Commandments are commands to abstain from ungodly activities, none of them is a command to do anything.

This is clarified by the subject of "boasting". Paul makes it quite clear that boasting comes from pointing to the works/deeds one has performed. Romans 3:27-28. As there are no works or deeds in the Ten Commandments, it cannot be used for boasting as there are no works with which to justify oneself.

Some may argue that keeping the Sabbath is a work, but that is a paradox for two reasons. One is that it is a day of rest. Rest does not equal work. Secondly, it is actually a commandment to abstain - see Isaiah 58:13 -

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words."

The emphasis is clearly on what not to do, which makes it a command of abstention - the same as the other nine of the Ten Commandments. It is not to be understood in the sense of making the Sabbath holy as if we mortal beings could make anything holy. We are instructed not to desecrate the holiness God has already attributed to it. Abstain from desecrating.

There are of course many Scriptures that speak of the beauty of the law of God (Psalms 1:2, 19:7, 94:12 and 119:174) and that speak of the curse of the law of man Galatians 3:10-13. Let us not be blind and confuse the two and call a curse that which is holy, or think that the blessing of God's law are reserved for a select few.


Offline Everhope

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #64 on: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 03:58:09 »
According to Acts 15 the Gentiles do NOT keep those commandments (or at least are not required to do so) so the remnant referred to here is the Messianic Jews.

This is taking Acts 15 out of context in a major way and it is quite easy to see that. The law that was being discussed here was the law of Moses, the book that was kept in the side of the Ark of the covenant:

Deutoronomio 31:24-27

24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

This is the law that Paul said was nailed to the cross. You can drive a nail through a book:

Colosians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

Try doing that with a tablet of stone: you'll seen realise the metaphor doesn't fit.

Notice Paul uses the wording "against us" to demonstrate the connection between these handwritten ordinances and the book of the law written by Moses which was "a witness against thee".

This is where we as Adventists stand out from the majority of Christians, who believe there were two laws nailed to the cross (that of Moses and that of God) and Messianic Jews who believe either that no law was repealed or that it is only binding upon them, as if God was only the God of the Jews - Romans 3:29 and 6:15.

Please demonstrate how God's law, as written by Him on tablets of stone was somehow "against us". Look at the references in the New Testament where Paul contrasts law and grace, is he talking about the Ten Commandments or the law of Moses?:

Romans 2:25 "For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."

Please show where circumcision is ever mentioned in relation to the Ten Commandments.

On the other hand, every time the Ten Commandments are quoted in the New Testament, they are shown in a positive light. Romans 13:8-10, James 2:8-12.

There is also the subject of the "works of the law". Naturally; the law of Moses included many works that the Jewish people had to perform to either identify them or help them understand the covenant they had entered into it; circumcision was one of them. Show me a single work in the Ten Commandments. All ten of the Ten Commandments are commands to abstain from ungodly activities, none of them is a command to do anything.

This is clarified by the subject of "boasting". Paul makes it quite clear that boasting comes from pointing to the works/deeds one has performed. Romans 3:27-28. As there are no works or deeds in the Ten Commandments, it cannot be used for boasting as there are no works with which to justify oneself.

Some may argue that keeping the Sabbath is a work, but that is a paradox for two reasons. One is that it is a day of rest. Rest does not equal work. Secondly, it is actually a commandment to abstain - see Isaiah 58:13 -

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words."

The emphasis is clearly on what not to do, which makes it a command of abstention - the same as the other nine of the Ten Commandments. It is not to be understood in the sense of making the Sabbath holy as if we mortal beings could make anything holy. We are instructed not to desecrate the holiness God has already attributed to it. Abstain from desecrating.

There are of course many Scriptures that speak of the beauty of the law of God (Psalms 1:2, 19:7, 94:12 and 119:174) and that speak of the curse of the law of man Galatians 3:10-13. Let us not be blind and confuse the two and call a curse that which is holy, or think that the blessing of God's law are reserved for a select few.



Amen!

Offline chosenone

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #65 on: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 04:39:09 »
Actually it always makes me laugh when any one group or denomination or cult claim they they alone are the 'true' chruch, or they alone are the 144,000 etc. That alone shows that they are right off course and in serious error.
The 144,000 will be from the Jewish tribes, and NOT gentile believers.

Offline drewhemm

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #66 on: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 04:58:28 »
Actually it always makes me laugh when any one group or denomination or cult claim they they alone are the 'true' chruch, or they alone are the 144,000 etc. That alone shows that they are right off course and in serious error.
The 144,000 will be from the Jewish tribes, and NOT gentile believers.

You say it makes you laugh, and then you proceed to do exactly the same thing - identify who you think the 144,000 are, and in such a way as to exclude others.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's fair for you to say that your opinion is more valid than the opinion of others, especially when you jump to the same kind of conclusion.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #67 on: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 05:24:02 »
According to Acts 15 the Gentiles do NOT keep those commandments (or at least are not required to do so) so the remnant referred to here is the Messianic Jews.
This is taking Acts 15 out of context in a major way and it is quite easy to see that. The law that was being discussed here was the law of Moses, the book that was kept in the side of the Ark of the covenant:

Not out of context at all.  Read Acts 21 for the flip side of that.  Acts 15 had nothing to say to Jewish believers EXCEPT do not turn the Gentile believers into Jews.  But in Acts 21 you see that Jewish believers are STILL required to observe Moses and James contrasts that specifically with the decision of Acts 15: (James speaking to Paul)

Acts 21.21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

If any of them (especially Paul) ever believed that the Acts 15 decision exempted Jews from following Moses this would have been the opportune time to say so.  In his acts in buying the sacrifices for these 4 men, Paul agreed with James that Jews were to "... walk orderly, keeping the Law."  But then note verse 25 that exempted the gentiles from that.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #68 on: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 06:26:31 »
Quote from: chosenone
Actually it always makes me laugh when any one group or denomination or cult claim they they alone are the 'true' church, or they alone are the 144,000 etc. That alone shows that they are right off course and in serious error.
The 144,000 will be from the Jewish tribes, and NOT gentile believers.
You say it makes you laugh, and then you proceed to do exactly the same thing - identify who you think the 144,000 are, and in such a way as to exclude others.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's fair for you to say that your opinion is more valid than the opinion of others, especially when you jump to the same kind of conclusion.

If you do NOT think that 144k people are actual physical descendants of each of those tribes you violate the simple understanding of the scripture. [peshat]

Rev 7.4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand,
from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

The Peshat tells us that God knows who these descendants are and will seal them at this time.

Now there is another grouping of 144.000 in Rev 14.  Are they the same?  We have no indicator one way or the other beyond the number being the same. This could be a different group of gentile believers, symmetrical to the group of Israelites.
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 06:32:21 by DaveW »

Offline drewhemm

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Re: The SDA church is God's remnant church of Revelation....
« Reply #69 on: Thu Dec 06, 2012 - 06:36:19 »
Not out of context at all.  Read Acts 21 for the flip side of that.  Acts 15 had nothing to say to Jewish believers EXCEPT do not turn the Gentile believers into Jews.  But in Acts 21 you see that Jewish believers are STILL required to observe Moses and James contrasts that specifically with the decision of Acts 15: (James speaking to Paul)

Acts 21.21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

If any of them (especially Paul) ever believed that the Acts 15 decision exempted Jews from following Moses this would have been the opportune time to say so.  In his acts in buying the sacrifices for these 4 men, Paul agreed with James that Jews were to "... walk orderly, keeping the Law."  But then note verse 25 that exempted the gentiles from that.

The key here is in verse 24. Compare it with 1 Corinthians 9:19-21:

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Paul was evangelising, and he knew that his labours would be prejudiced if he was seen to be teaching disobedience to God. The case of these four men relates to the law in Numbers 30:1-2:

1 And Moses spake unto the heads of the tribes concerning the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded.
2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

So Paul took the opportunity to show that he was in no way suggesting to the Jews that they should break their vows, which would be an act of direct disobedience against the Lord.  At the same time, he taught the Gentiles that they should not enter into such vows. Not that if they had made a vow, they were at liberty to break it.

Again, the Ten Commandments have nothing to do with this episode.

 

     
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