The SDA prophet

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." (from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1, G. A. Irwin, General Conference President)


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people." (Adventist Review, June 3. 1971, page 6, The Source of Final Appeal, By Roderick S. Owen)

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure.  You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Apparently you did not read and comprehend the second quote in its entirety. 

'final court of appeal' would be the equivalent of your term 'final word on doctrine' so according to YOUR definition, Ellen White - the Spirit of Prophecy - is the final court of appeal and the final word on doctrine and by extension inline with the title you first mentioned, the Pope of the SDA church.

[davidandme]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." (from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1, G. A. Irwin, General Conference President)


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people." (Adventist Review, June 3. 1971, page 6, The Source of Final Appeal, By Roderick S. Owen)

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure.  You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Apparently you did not read and comprehend the second quote in its entirety. 

'final court of appeal' would be the equivalent of your term 'final word on doctrine so according to YOUR definition, Ellen White - the Spirit of Prophecy - is the final court of appeal and the final word on doctrine and by extension inline with the title you first mentioned, the Pope of the SDA church.

I am aware of some of thouse articles.  They do not represent the overall view of the SDA church.  Even if they came from high ranking officials.  The 28 articles of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA are the bottom line.   People who are added to the church have to agree with these 28 articles.   I have seen the church manual and the current manual does not have thouse comments that you mentioned.  By the way a person does not have to believe in the inspiration of Mrs. White to be a member of the SDA church.  God bless.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words."


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people."

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure. You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Actually the monolithic structure of the SDA church is the 28 fundamental beliefs.  Some local churches and conferences have the structure well maintained and even polished; others have allowed it to weather and rust.  The monolith is still intact.

I find it rather disingenuous for SDA's to try and redefine the monolith.

[davidandme]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words."


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people."

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure. You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Actually the monolithic structure of the SDA church is the 28 fundamental beliefs.  Some local churches and conferences have the structure well maintained and even polished; others have allowed it to weather and rust.  The monolith is still intact.

I find it rather disingenuous for SDA's to try and redefine the monolith.

I see your point and I believe you are on to something here.  But remember that Adventists believe in the "present truth"  What they mean by that is that they don't claimed to have all the truths.  In fact they believe that their truth is progressive as the Holy Spirit reveals them.  In other words, SDA do not claimed to have all the truths and they do not claim to know it all.  One think I do know and I am sure that the church feels the same way.  New light can't contradict old light.  God bless.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words."


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people."

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure.  You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Now you are equating the faith to believe in God to what is required to believe in Ellen White.  That makes the two personages equal.  That is just NASTY!!! Ellen is not equal to God

It does not line up with the instructions found in the Bible either.  We are told to test those who are presented as prophets.  We are not told to believe in prophets by faith.

Your example of the requirement of faith to believe in Ellen White is no different than the Mormon seeking the 'burning in the bosom' to confirm Joseph Smith as a true prophet in their church.

[Amo]

Wow, this thread really took off.  I guess it is because so many SDA's and non, or ex-SDA's are so eaten up with EGW.  

Old Dad, baloney.  When I have the time I will pull my posts back up, none of which you addressed.  Then you can prove how I twisted the facts, about your internet sites which do twist the facts, and outright lie.  

Current occupant, have you taken it upon yourself to be the personal judge of all SDA's, having full knowledge of how each and every one views the writings of EGW?  Get a grip.  Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.  Though we do have at least one example in scripture that I know of.

No doubt, you are judging us according to how  you viewed her writings when you were an SDA.  We've all been there before.  It is a common malady of the human nature.  

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with EGW.  

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." (from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1, G. A. Irwin, General Conference President)


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people." (Adventist Review, June 3. 1971, page 6, The Source of Final Appeal, By Roderick S. Owen)

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure.  You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Apparently you did not read and comprehend the second quote in its entirety. 

'final court of appeal' would be the equivalent of your term 'final word on doctrine so according to YOUR definition, Ellen White - the Spirit of Prophecy - is the final court of appeal and the final word on doctrine and by extension inline with the title you first mentioned, the Pope of the SDA church.

I am aware of some of thouse articles.  They do not represent the overall view of the SDA church.  Even if they came from high ranking officials.  The 28 articles of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA are the bottom line.   People who are added to the church have to agree with these 28 articles.   I have seen the church manual and the current manual does not have thouse comments that you mentioned.  By the way a person does not have to believe in the inspiration of Mrs. White to be a member of the SDA church.  God bless.

Are you disavowing your self of the accuracy of these statements?

Are you saying that this article in the MAIN SDA church paper (the Adventist Review) does not represent an official position on doctrine and fundamental beliefs?

Are you saying that this statement  from the President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventist's  does not represent an official position on doctrine and fundamental beliefs?

If this is what your true position is going to be, then you are accusing your leaders and the main communication from them of misleading the membership.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." (from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1, G. A. Irwin, General Conference President)


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people." (Adventist Review, June 3. 1971, page 6, The Source of Final Appeal, By Roderick S. Owen)

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure.  You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Apparently you did not read and comprehend the second quote in its entirety. 

'final court of appeal' would be the equivalent of your term 'final word on doctrine so according to YOUR definition, Ellen White - the Spirit of Prophecy - is the final court of appeal and the final word on doctrine and by extension inline with the title you first mentioned, the Pope of the SDA church.

I am aware of some of thouse articles.  They do not represent the overall view of the SDA church.  Even if they came from high ranking officials.  The 28 articles of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA are the bottom line.   People who are added to the church have to agree with these 28 articles.   I have seen the church manual and the current manual does not have thouse comments that you mentioned.  By the way a person does not have to believe in the inspiration of Mrs. White to be a member of the SDA church.  God bless.

So - let me get this straight....... you clearly state that:

To be a member of the SDA church, a person must agree to all 28 articles of the fundamental beliefs of the SDA church.

Article 18 of the fundamental beliefs states:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.

With the manifested ministry of Ellen G.White expressly stated in this fundamental belief, you would have us believe that a proselytized convert to SDA'ism is not required to believe in her inspiration.

Does any one else see a disconnect here???  I sure do!!!

[current occupant]

Wow, this thread really took off.  I guess it is because so many SDA's and non, or ex-SDA's are so eaten up with EGW.  

Old Dad, baloney.  When I have the time I will pull my posts back up, none of which you addressed.  Then you can prove how I twisted the facts, about your internet sites which do twist the facts, and outright lie.  

Current occupant, have you taken it upon yourself to be the personal judge of all SDA's, having full knowledge of how each and every one views the writings of EGW?  Get a grip.  Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.  Though we do have at least one example in scripture that I know of.

No doubt, you are judging us according to how  you viewed her writings when you were an SDA.  We've all been there before.  It is a common malady of the human nature.  

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with EGW.  

Please do not play the 'diversity of SDA'ism' card.  No where have I even alluded to personal differences of belief in Ellen White amongst SDA's.  My only frame of reference has been the official statement of fundamental beliefs and the views connected to them expressed by the highest leadership the church has and communicated through the OFFICIAL church paper.

Your 'get a grip' comment is ad hom'

[current occupant]

Wow, this thread really took off.  I guess it is because so many SDA's and non, or ex-SDA's are so eaten up with EGW.  

Old Dad, baloney.  When I have the time I will pull my posts back up, none of which you addressed.  Then you can prove how I twisted the facts, about your internet sites which do twist the facts, and outright lie.  

Current occupant, have you taken it upon yourself to be the personal judge of all SDA's, having full knowledge of how each and every one views the writings of EGW?  Get a grip.  Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.  Though we do have at least one example in scripture that I know of.

No doubt, you are judging us according to how  you viewed her writings when you were an SDA.  We've all been there before.  It is a common malady of the human nature.  

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with EGW.  

I judge no one.

All I have inquired about is the Canonical authority that has been claimed for Ellen White through the fundamental belief that contains her name.  

That question has been met with excuses based in SDA diversity of individual belief that ignores those same fundamental beliefs while still claiming to be an SDA.

If you don't recognize that you actually (1)-believe every word she ever wrote or (2)-fail to follow through in following every word she ever wrote, you wouldn't have any idea about how others might have viewed her writings while in the SDA denomination.

[current occupant]

Wow, this thread really took off.  I guess it is because so many SDA's and non, or ex-SDA's are so eaten up with EGW.  

Old Dad, baloney.  When I have the time I will pull my posts back up, none of which you addressed.  Then you can prove how I twisted the facts, about your internet sites which do twist the facts, and outright lie.  

Current occupant, have you taken it upon yourself to be the personal judge of all SDA's, having full knowledge of how each and every one views the writings of EGW?  Get a grip.  Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.  Though we do have at least one example in scripture that I know of.

No doubt, you are judging us according to how  you viewed her writings when you were an SDA.  We've all been there before.  It is a common malady of the human nature.  

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with EGW.  

If you are claiming the fallibility of Ellen White, please present examples where she is now viewed as being wrong in any in any of her statements, writings or transcriptions of her presentations that are outside of her acknowledged visions. 

For reference, please supply the criteria that the SDA church uses to establish the inaccuracy of her statements.

This is the same request that I made of 'Davidandme' in another post.  Maybe the two of you can get together and share methods for gathering this information.

While you are looking, you might like to consider the following statements about her view of her own writings.

“The light that I have received, I have written out, and much of it is now shining forth from the printed page. There is, throughout my printed works, a harmony with my present teaching.”—Review and Herald, June 14, 1906, p. 8.

“While I am able to do this work, the people must have things to revive past history, that they may see that there is one straight chain of truth, without one heretical sentence, in that which I have written.”—Letter 329a, 1905, cited in Selected Messages, book 3, p. 52.

Please point out, for us, the messages of Ellen White to which these statements do not apply.

Most likely you will have to look at her materials that were totally original productions after sometime in 1905.

[current occupant]

Wow, this thread really took off.  I guess it is because so many SDA's and non, or ex-SDA's are so eaten up with EGW.  

Old Dad, baloney.  When I have the time I will pull my posts back up, none of which you addressed.  Then you can prove how I twisted the facts, about your internet sites which do twist the facts, and outright lie.  

Current occupant, have you taken it upon yourself to be the personal judge of all SDA's, having full knowledge of how each and every one views the writings of EGW?  Get a grip.  Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.  Though we do have at least one example in scripture that I know of.

No doubt, you are judging us according to how  you viewed her writings when you were an SDA.  We've all been there before.  It is a common malady of the human nature.  

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with EGW.  

Your use of the word 'originate' produces a strawman and you ask us to knock it down. 

Let's clarify your request and make it a more honest one.

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with were verified through vision by EGW.

    At that time one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures, and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose.  The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.—Gospel Workers, p. 302.

I guess that would only directly eliminate the possibility of fundamental belief #11 being adopted under her living watchful eye. 

Do you think, though, that the contents of # 11 came out of thin air............. without consideration of what she had already written?

Let us know if there are any others of the remaining 27 that you want us to understand as NOT being endorsed and verified by the visions of Ellen White.

Let's put it this way.  IF Ellen agrees with the Bible as you claim AND if all your doctrines come directly from the bible as you claim THEN Ellen endorses all the SDA doctrines.

The problem is, IF Ellen does not have Canonical authority over doctrine and is not the infallible interpreter of scripture as claimed by at least one General Conference President and a writer for the official SDA magazine then she could be wrong and supporting an incorrect view of scripture as SDA's accuse other Christians of doing.

Consequently, Ellen must be defended at all costs and even the most liberal SDA is alarmed when Ellen's accuracy, authority, and credibility is questioned.

That is why I expect to see you and 'Davidandme' ignore our request for a list of errors made by Ellen White and the criteria used to determine they are, in fact, errors.

None the less, I await your findings.........

[current occupant]

Wow, this thread really took off.  I guess it is because so many SDA's and non, or ex-SDA's are so eaten up with EGW.  

Old Dad, baloney.  When I have the time I will pull my posts back up, none of which you addressed.  Then you can prove how I twisted the facts, about your internet sites which do twist the facts, and outright lie.  

Current occupant, have you taken it upon yourself to be the personal judge of all SDA's, having full knowledge of how each and every one views the writings of EGW?  Get a grip.  Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.  Though we do have at least one example in scripture that I know of.

No doubt, you are judging us according to how  you viewed her writings when you were an SDA.  We've all been there before.  It is a common malady of the human nature.  

Please do anyone, show me what doctrine of the SDA Church originated with EGW.  

More questions from this post.....

Why so defensive about having even one doctrine originate with your SDA prophet. 

Why so vehement in your effort to distance Ellen White from the conception of doctrinal origins to the extent of neglecting to acknowledge her contribution by saying they come only from the Bible.

Even the Mormon's are upfront with the contribution of the LINE of prophets that have contributed to their doctrines.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words."


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people."

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure. You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.

Actually the monolithic structure of the SDA church is the 28 fundamental beliefs.  Some local churches and conferences have the structure well maintained and even polished; others have allowed it to weather and rust.  The monolith is still intact.

I find it rather disingenuous for SDA's to try and redefine the monolith.

I see your point and I believe you are on to something here.  But remember that Adventists believe in the "present truth"  What they mean by that is that they don't claimed to have all the truths.  In fact they believe that their truth is progressive as the Holy Spirit reveals them.  In other words, SDA do not claimed to have all the truths and they do not claim to know it all.  One think I do know and I am sure that the church feels the same way.  New light can't contradict old light.  God bless.

I'm glad that you have seen my point.

If you will just take a minute and contemplate your own signature.......

Jesus said:  I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the father except through Me.  John 14:6

How does that point to a present truth that is constantly evolving.  Your portrayal of truth in this manner has a new age ring to it (that I know SDA's will deny).

Your concept of present truth is only necessary because of the role presented for Ellen White as the SDA church evolved and morphed from the failed and inappropriate predictions of William Miller.

Jesus said in John 18:37 in reply to Pilate.....

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

SDA's, by their concept of 'present truth', continuously ask Pilate's question in reply......

38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? ..............

and, not sure what to expect next, because they followed against Biblical instructions to begin with, they look for additions to the simple Gospel of Salvation in Jesus that the Thief on the Cross experienced.  No matter what you believe about where the coma should go in Jesus promise to the thief, we know that the promise of Jesus is true.

It is FINISHED.  DONE.  COMPLETED.  2000 years ago, Jesus entered and sat down at the right hand of the Father signifying the fulfillment of his plan to redeem us.

Believe in Him, Call on his name and you will be saved.

[OldDad]

Anything EGW said that was not concerning a direct vision from God, is subject to the same fallibility that we all posses as fallen beings.  Thus, as she plainly stated, and SDA's plainly believe, the word of God is the final word on everything.  She was as human as the rest of us.  So were all the prophets.  All were sinners, and all mistaken at times, even if these events were not recorded in the scriptures.    

Yes or no - was EGW mistaken in her interpretation, understanding, or application of any of her alleged "direct visions from God"?

Yes or no - was it possible for her to be?