The SDA prophet

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Do SDA's view the Bible as a "continuing and authoritative source of truth"?

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

So 'authoritative' means 'take them seriously' and 'continuing' means 'a special message for SDA's'?

How seriously are SDA's to take her special message?  

Is her special message just for SDA's?

[OldDad]

 No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  

I don't think this is true - perhaps you should look at the posts by one of your fellow church members on this site which amount to page after page of cut-and-paste from EGW's writings...

At the very least there are SDA doctrines based on EGW's unique interpretation of scripture.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Your statement, that I highlighted, is somewhat misleading.

You neglected to mention that SDA doctrine IS based on Ellen White's interpretation.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

If Ellen White is not infallible, please point out:

• Where she was wrong in any of her special messages to the SDA church.
  
  Where she ever admitted that she was in error in any of her instructions to the SDA church.
  

[davidandme]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Do SDA's view the Bible as a "continuing and authoritative source of truth"?

The Bible is the infallible word of God.  Nothing else is needed to be a Christian.

[current occupant]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words."


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people."

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

[current occupant]

Tell us current occupant, what would convince you that you are mistaken?  Would several quotes from EGW herself, and official quotes from the SDA organization to the effect that all her writings are to be judged by the word of God, and not the other way around?  I think not. I could be wrong but I suspect you have already made up your mind on the issue, and will not be moved.  Therefore, why should we waste our time beating a dead dog with a stick?

Having experienced Ellenology first hand, I will say that I have never heard an SDA say that Ellen White was wrong about anything she wrote or did so I am not surprised that adherents defend her.


Tell us, Amo, what would it take to convince you that Ellen is considered and promoted as Canonical within the membership and leadership of the SDA denomination?

I have been an SDA for 41 years and what you are saying is simply not true.. Mrs White wrote many things.  Some of it was inspired and some of it was not. She was a human being just like us.  You might find some SDA's that might tell you something different, but remember the SDA church is not a monolithic structure.  The church does not have a Pope.  But most of the SDA's in the world do not claimed that Mrs White was infallible.  In Europe most of the SDA's rarely read her books.  She is more popular here in the U.S.  God bless.

Well my 50+ years as an SDA trumps your 41 - if you want to play that game.  However age and time within SDA circles are a very small factor in understanding the error of the 'ism.  In fact, the longer you are 'in', the harder it is to lift the veil and see the pure Gospel of Jesus.

And please don't appeal to the SDA diversity card either.

I am drawing my information from official papers and books of the SDA church and the quotes from the leaders of local, divisional and general conferences.  If they are not consistent with SDA belief and practice then no one is.

Funny you should mention the SDA Pope......

[current occupant]

Tell us current occupant, what would convince you that you are mistaken?  Would several quotes from EGW herself, and official quotes from the SDA organization to the effect that all her writings are to be judged by the word of God, and not the other way around?  I think not. I could be wrong but I suspect you have already made up your mind on the issue, and will not be moved.  Therefore, why should we waste our time beating a dead dog with a stick?

Having experienced Ellenology first hand, I will say that I have never heard an SDA say that Ellen White was wrong about anything she wrote or did so I am not surprised that adherents defend her.


Tell us, Amo, what would it take to convince you that Ellen is considered and promoted as Canonical within the membership and leadership of the SDA denomination?

I have been an SDA for 41 years and what you are saying is simply not true..  Mrs White wrote many things.  Some of it was inspired and some of it was not.  She was a human being just like us.  You might find some SDA's that might tell you something different, but remember the SDA church is not a monolithic structure.  The church does not have a Pope.  But most of the SDA's in the world do not claimed that Mrs White was infallible.  In Europe most of the SDA's rarely read her books.  She is more popular here in the U.S.  God bless.

If some of what she wrote was not inspired,  please point out some examples of her 'uninspiration' that you are aware of.

While you are at it -- Where would we find the criteria used to determine that the examples you will provide are not inspired?

[davidandme]

 No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  

I don't think this is true - perhaps you should look at the posts by one of your fellow church members on this site which amount to page after page of cut-and-paste from EGW's writings...

At the very least there are SDA doctrines based on EGW's unique interpretation of scripture.

No doctrine of the SDA church is based on Mrs. White.  I challenge you to find me any evidence that Mrs White said the opposite.  God bless.

[davidandme]

Tell us current occupant, what would convince you that you are mistaken?  Would several quotes from EGW herself, and official quotes from the SDA organization to the effect that all her writings are to be judged by the word of God, and not the other way around?  I think not. I could be wrong but I suspect you have already made up your mind on the issue, and will not be moved.  Therefore, why should we waste our time beating a dead dog with a stick?

Having experienced Ellenology first hand, I will say that I have never heard an SDA say that Ellen White was wrong about anything she wrote or did so I am not surprised that adherents defend her.


Tell us, Amo, what would it take to convince you that Ellen is considered and promoted as Canonical within the membership and leadership of the SDA denomination?

I have been an SDA for 41 years and what you are saying is simply not true..  Mrs White wrote many things.  Some of it was inspired and some of it was not.  She was a human being just like us.  You might find some SDA's that might tell you something different, but remember the SDA church is not a monolithic structure.  The church does not have a Pope.  But most of the SDA's in the world do not claimed that Mrs White was infallible.  In Europe most of the SDA's rarely read her books.  She is more popular here in the U.S.  God bless.

If some of what she wrote was not inspired,  please point out some examples of her 'uninspiration' that you are aware of.

While you are at it -- Where would we find the criteria used to determine that the examples you will provide are not inspired?

It has been my experience that specially on this subject that once people want to believe something there is little chance for them to change their minds.  So I will not reply to this particular question.  I can use my time on something more useful.  Please read at least one of her books and make your own judgement.  I hope you find the truth if that is what you are looking for.  God bless.

[current occupant]

Tell us current occupant, what would convince you that you are mistaken?  Would several quotes from EGW herself, and official quotes from the SDA organization to the effect that all her writings are to be judged by the word of God, and not the other way around?  I think not. I could be wrong but I suspect you have already made up your mind on the issue, and will not be moved.  Therefore, why should we waste our time beating a dead dog with a stick?

Having experienced Ellenology first hand, I will say that I have never heard an SDA say that Ellen White was wrong about anything she wrote or did so I am not surprised that adherents defend her.


Tell us, Amo, what would it take to convince you that Ellen is considered and promoted as Canonical within the membership and leadership of the SDA denomination?

I have been an SDA for 41 years and what you are saying is simply not true..  Mrs White wrote many things.  Some of it was inspired and some of it was not.  She was a human being just like us.  You might find some SDA's that might tell you something different, but remember the SDA church is not a monolithic structure.  The church does not have a Pope.  But most of the SDA's in the world do not claimed that Mrs White was infallible.  In Europe most of the SDA's rarely read her books.  She is more popular here in the U.S.  God bless.

If some of what she wrote was not inspired,  please point out some examples of her 'uninspiration' that you are aware of.

While you are at it -- Where would we find the criteria used to determine that the examples you will provide are not inspired?

It has been my experience that specially on this subject that once people want to believe something there is little chance for them to change their minds.  So I will not reply to this particular question.  I can use my time on something more useful.  Please read at least one of her books and make your own judgement.  God bless.

 



I'm not asking or expecting that anyone will be convinced either way.  You made a claim about Ellen White and I am simply asking you to produce examples (even one) of what you have claimed.

[Edit]  If you can't find any examples or criteria - just say so.  Your not saying so would be a waste of time.

[edit]  I have read many of her books.

[davidandme]

Tell us current occupant, what would convince you that you are mistaken?  Would several quotes from EGW herself, and official quotes from the SDA organization to the effect that all her writings are to be judged by the word of God, and not the other way around?  I think not. I could be wrong but I suspect you have already made up your mind on the issue, and will not be moved.  Therefore, why should we waste our time beating a dead dog with a stick?

Having experienced Ellenology first hand, I will say that I have never heard an SDA say that Ellen White was wrong about anything she wrote or did so I am not surprised that adherents defend her.


Tell us, Amo, what would it take to convince you that Ellen is considered and promoted as Canonical within the membership and leadership of the SDA denomination?

I have been an SDA for 41 years and what you are saying is simply not true..  Mrs White wrote many things.  Some of it was inspired and some of it was not.  She was a human being just like us.  You might find some SDA's that might tell you something different, but remember the SDA church is not a monolithic structure.  The church does not have a Pope.  But most of the SDA's in the world do not claimed that Mrs White was infallible.  In Europe most of the SDA's rarely read her books.  She is more popular here in the U.S.  God bless.

If some of what she wrote was not inspired,  please point out some examples of her 'uninspiration' that you are aware of.

While you are at it -- Where would we find the criteria used to determine that the examples you will provide are not inspired?

It has been my experience that specially on this subject that once people want to believe something there is little chance for them to change their minds.  So I will not reply to this particular question.  I can use my time on something more useful.  Please read at least one of her books and make your own judgement.  God bless.

 



I'm not asking or expecting that anyone will be convinced either way.  You made a claim about Ellen White and I am simply asking you to produce examples (even one) of what you have claimed.

[Edit]  If you can't find any examples or criteria - just say so.  Your not saying so would be a waste of time.

[edit]  I have read many of her books.

Here is abook that adresses some of your questions. You can read it for free.

http://books.google.com/books?id=C2OF5bTuRIEC&dq=prophet+of+destiny&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=X0Esw4pZ0C&sig=omYbGxj9R8YGgnb59vTHWKGQDVM&hl=en&ei=5qYVSuDdEs24-QaZucjpDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPP1,M1

[current occupant]

Tell us current occupant, what would convince you that you are mistaken?  Would several quotes from EGW herself, and official quotes from the SDA organization to the effect that all her writings are to be judged by the word of God, and not the other way around?  I think not. I could be wrong but I suspect you have already made up your mind on the issue, and will not be moved.  Therefore, why should we waste our time beating a dead dog with a stick?

Having experienced Ellenology first hand, I will say that I have never heard an SDA say that Ellen White was wrong about anything she wrote or did so I am not surprised that adherents defend her.


Tell us, Amo, what would it take to convince you that Ellen is considered and promoted as Canonical within the membership and leadership of the SDA denomination?

I have been an SDA for 41 years and what you are saying is simply not true..  Mrs White wrote many things.  Some of it was inspired and some of it was not.  She was a human being just like us.  You might find some SDA's that might tell you something different, but remember the SDA church is not a monolithic structure.  The church does not have a Pope.  But most of the SDA's in the world do not claimed that Mrs White was infallible.  In Europe most of the SDA's rarely read her books.  She is more popular here in the U.S.  God bless.

If some of what she wrote was not inspired,  please point out some examples of her 'uninspiration' that you are aware of.

While you are at it -- Where would we find the criteria used to determine that the examples you will provide are not inspired?

It has been my experience that specially on this subject that once people want to believe something there is little chance for them to change their minds.  So I will not reply to this particular question.  I can use my time on something more useful.  Please read at least one of her books and make your own judgement.  God bless.

 



I'm not asking or expecting that anyone will be convinced either way.  You made a claim about Ellen White and I am simply asking you to produce examples (even one) of what you have claimed.

[Edit]  If you can't find any examples or criteria - just say so.  Your not saying so would be a waste of time.

[edit]  I have read many of her books.

Here is abook that adresses some of your questions. You can read it for free.

http://books.google.com/books?id=C2OF5bTuRIEC&dq=prophet+of+destiny&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=X0Esw4pZ0C&sig=omYbGxj9R8YGgnb59vTHWKGQDVM&hl=en&ei=5qYVSuDdEs24-QaZucjpDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPP1,M1

Read it years ago...  It is in my home library.

Now how about them examples and the criteria?

[davidandme]

yup!! Ellen White IS the 18th fundamental belief of the SDA church.

From the "SDA Church Manual 17th Edition"

18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

If it's in their church manual, it is certainly NOT the "minority view."

I would like to see it explained, how the part about "continuing and authoritative source of truth" is about anything else except a claim to Canonical authority. 

If it is not Canonical authority, what kind of authority is it?

That just means that her statements must be taken seriously and that she has a special message for SDA's.  No SDA doctrine is based on Mrs. White.  She is not infallible either.  I know that people that have issues with the SDA church will say the contrary.  But the truth still remains.  God bless.

Is the person who wrote the following statement one of the people you refer to as having issues with the SDA church?

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words."


or maybe this person has issues with the SDA church as well......

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people."

How about it Davidandme and other SDA's....

Who will step forward and publicly state with your leaders, and without apology, that Ellen's writings as the 'Spirit of Prophecy' are your only infallible interpreter of scripture?

Remember that the SDA church is not govern by a supreme Pope that has the final word on doctrine. The SDA church is relatively well unified but at the same time is not a monolithic structure.  You might read articles even by some church leaders that can be contradictory.  But the bottom line is the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church.  You can google them and read them if you like.  People might have 10 million reasons for not believing in God.  People might have 10 million reasons for believing in God.  The same goes for Mrs White.  It all comes down to faith.  It seems to me that you are well acquainted with the writtings of Mrs. White.  So it is up to you now.  The ball is on your court.  I hope God guides you to the  the truth according to His will.  God bless.