Author Topic: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims  (Read 468 times)

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Offline current occupant2

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The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« on: Thu May 21, 2020 - 14:48:14 »
Why does the Seventh-day Adventist Church claim that the Writings of Ellen White correct erroneous interpretations of Scripture. 

Doesn’t this claim, by default, also say that....

1. Ellen’s writings identify any teaching that disagrees with what she has written is in error.

2. Anything that agrees with Ellen’s writings are correct. 

Offline Amo

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #1 on: Sat May 23, 2020 - 07:34:33 »
Why does the Seventh-day Adventist Church claim that the Writings of Ellen White correct erroneous interpretations of Scripture. 

Doesn’t this claim, by default, also say that....

1. Ellen’s writings identify any teaching that disagrees with what she has written is in error.

2. Anything that agrees with Ellen’s writings are correct.

For the same reasons no doubt countless other people have chosen different peoples interpretations of scripture over the many others out there. They agree with them over others for this or that particular reason. Some no doubt because they were simply raised to believe so. Others because they simply prefer her interpretations above the rest. Some because they have actually studied scripture and her writings in relation to the same, and have become convicted that her testimonies are true and correct. Other reasons also no doubt which only God or they know.

Offline Cathlodox

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #2 on: Sat May 30, 2020 - 01:58:20 »
Here is one thing we can take to the bank pertaining to teachings outside of Ellen authorized materials.


James White ( Ellen's husband )
"We invite all to compare THE TESTIMONIES of the Holy Spirit THROUGH Mrs. White with the word of God. And in this we do not invite you to compare them with your creed. That is quite another thing. The TRINITARIAN may compare them with his creed, and because THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, CONDEMN them [ the testimonies of Mrs. White ]. The Adventist Review & Sabbath Herald June 13, 1871

The Bible can be muddy according to Ellen White.

Ellen White
The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, NOT His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")

Ellen however DID represent God, word for word.

Ellen White
After the passing of the time in 1844 we searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with the brethren, and we studied and prayed earnestly... When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," the Spirit of the Lord would come upon ME. I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given ME, with instruction as to how WE were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, his mission, and his priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to ME, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given ME." (Review and Herald, May 25, 1905)




Offline Amo

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #3 on: Sat May 30, 2020 - 13:42:57 »
Here is one thing we can take to the bank pertaining to teachings outside of Ellen authorized materials.


James White ( Ellen's husband )
"We invite all to compare THE TESTIMONIES of the Holy Spirit THROUGH Mrs. White with the word of God. And in this we do not invite you to compare them with your creed. That is quite another thing. The TRINITARIAN may compare them with his creed, and because THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, CONDEMN them [ the testimonies of Mrs. White ]. The Adventist Review & Sabbath Herald June 13, 1871

The Bible can be muddy according to Ellen White.

Ellen White
The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, NOT His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")

Ellen however DID represent God, word for word.

Ellen White
After the passing of the time in 1844 we searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with the brethren, and we studied and prayed earnestly... When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," the Spirit of the Lord would come upon ME. I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given ME, with instruction as to how WE were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, his mission, and his priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to ME, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given ME." (Review and Herald, May 25, 1905)

The following is the article which you claim to have quoted from above. Your quote is nowhere to be found. Perhaps you got the wrong article.

Quote
SELECTED MESSAGES BOOK 1, PAGE 15

Chapter 1—The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers

The Inspiration of the Word of God

This is a time when the question with all propriety may be asked, “When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8).

Spiritual darkness has covered the earth and gross darkness the people. There are in many churches skepticism and infidelity in the interpretation of the Scriptures. Many, very many, are questioning the verity and truth of the Scriptures. Human reasoning and the imaginings of the human heart are undermining the inspiration of the Word of God, and that which should be received as granted, is surrounded with a cloud of mysticism. Nothing stands out in clear and distinct lines, upon rock bottom. This is one of the marked signs of the last days.

This Holy Book has withstood the assaults of Satan, who has united with evil men to make everything of divine character shrouded in clouds and darkness. But the Lord has preserved this Holy Book by His own miraculous power in its present shape—a chart or guidebook to the human family to show them the way to heaven.

But the oracles of God have been so manifestly neglected that there are but few in our world, even of those who profess to explain it to others, who have the divine knowledge of the Scriptures. There are learned men who have a college education, but these shepherds do not feed the flock of God. They do not consider that the excellencies of the Scriptures will be continually unfolding their hidden treasures as precious jewels are discovered by digging for them.

There are men who strive to be original, who are wise above what is written; therefore, their wisdom is foolishness. They discover wonderful things in advance, ideas which reveal that they are far behind in the comprehension of the divine will and purposes of God. In seeking to make plain or to unravel mysteries hid from ages from mortal man, they are like a man floundering about in the mud, unable to extricate himself and yet telling others how to get out of the muddy sea they themselves are in. This is a fit representation of the men who set themselves to correct the errors of the Bible. No man can improve the Bible by suggesting what the Lord meant to say or ought to have said.

Some look to us gravely and say, “Don't you think there might have been some mistake in the copyist or in the translators?” This is all probable, and the mind that is so narrow that it will hesitate and stumble over this possibility or probability would be just as ready to stumble over the mysteries of the Inspired Word, because their feeble minds cannot see through the purposes of God. Yes, they would just as easily stumble over plain facts that the common mind will accept, and discern the Divine, and to which God's utterance is plain and beautiful, full of marrow and fatness. All the mistakes will not cause trouble to one soul, or cause any feet to stumble, that would not manufacture difficulties from the plainest revealed truth.

God committed the preparation of His divinely inspired Word to finite man. This Word, arranged into books, the Old and New Testaments, is the guidebook to the inhabitants of a fallen world, bequeathed to them that, by studying and obeying the directions, not one soul would lose its way to heaven.

Those who think to make the supposed difficulties of Scripture plain, in measuring by their finite rule that which is inspired and that which is not inspired, had better cover their faces, as Elijah when the still small voice spoke to him; for they are in the presence of God and holy angels, who for ages have communicated to men light and knowledge, telling them what to do and what not to do, unfolding before them scenes of thrilling interest, waymark by waymark in symbols and signs and illustrations.

And He [God] has not, while presenting the perils clustering about the last days, qualified any finite man to unravel hidden mysteries or inspired one man or any class of men to pronounce judgment as to that which is inspired or is not. When men, in their finite judgment, find it necessary to go into an examination of scriptures to define that which is inspired and that which is not, they have stepped before Jesus to show Him a better way than He has led us.

I take the Bible just as it is, as the Inspired Word. I believe its utterances in an entire Bible. Men arise who think they find something to criticize in God's Word. They lay it bare before others as evidence of superior wisdom. These men are, many of them, smart men, learned men, they have eloquence and talent, the whole lifework [of whom] is to unsettle minds in regard to the inspiration of the Scriptures. They influence many to see as they do. And the same work is passed on from one to another, just as Satan designed it should be, until we may see the full meaning of the words of Christ, “When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8).

Brethren, let not a mind or hand be engaged in criticizing the Bible. It is a work that Satan delights to have any of you do, but it is not a work the Lord has pointed out for you to do.

Men should let God take care of His own Book, His living oracles, as He has done for ages. They begin to question some parts of revelation, and pick flaws in the apparent inconsistencies of this statement and that statement.

Beginning at Genesis, they give up that which they deem questionable, and their minds lead on, for Satan will lead to any length they may follow in their criticism, and they see something to doubt in the whole Scriptures. Their faculties of criticism become sharpened by exercise, and they can rest on nothing with a certainty. You try to reason with these men, but your time is lost. They will exercise their power of ridicule even upon the Bible. They even become mockers, and they would be astonished if you put it to them in that light.

Brethren, cling to your Bible, as it reads, and stop your criticisms in regard to its validity, and obey the Word, and not one of you will be lost. The ingenuity of men has been exercised for ages to measure the Word of God by their finite minds and limited comprehension. If the Lord, the Author of the living oracles, would throw back the curtain and reveal His wisdom and His glory before them, they would shrink into nothingness and exclaim as did Isaiah, “I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of people of unclean lips” (Isaiah 6:5).

Simplicity and plain utterance are comprehended by the illiterate, by the peasant, and the child as well as by the full-grown man or the giant in intellect. If the individual is possessed of large talents of mental powers, he will find in the oracles of God treasures of truth, beautiful and valuable, which he can appropriate. He will also find difficulties, and secrets and wonders which will give him the highest satisfaction to study during a long lifetime, and yet there is an infinity beyond.

Men of humble acquirements, possessing but limited capabilities and opportunities to become conversant in the Scriptures, find in the living oracles comfort, guidance, counsel, and the plan of salvation as clear as a sunbeam. No one need be lost for want of knowledge, unless he is willfully blind.

We thank God that the Bible is prepared for the poor man as well as for the learned man. It is fitted for all ages and all classes.—Manuscript 16, 1888 (written at Minneapolis, Minn., in autumn of 1888).

Offline Amo

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #4 on: Sat May 30, 2020 - 13:50:07 »
Quote
Ellen however DID represent God, word for word.

Ellen White
After the passing of the time in 1844 we searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with the brethren, and we studied and prayed earnestly... When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," the Spirit of the Lord would come upon ME. I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given ME, with instruction as to how WE were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, his mission, and his priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to ME, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given ME." (Review and Herald, May 25, 1905)

I don't see anything about her quoting God word for word in the above. The articles you quoted are seven years apart,  and addressing two totally different topics. As pointed out in the previous post, your first quote is not even in the article you referenced. I'm not even going to bother checking the above quote, since it does not suggest what you are claiming anyway. Your criticism techniques and referencing need a little work.

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #4 on: Sat May 30, 2020 - 13:50:07 »



Offline Cathlodox

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Offline Cathlodox

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #6 on: Fri Jun 26, 2020 - 15:06:31 »
Quote from: Amo
Your 1st quote is not even in the article you referenced

Really?

Page 4 of the pdf, 3rd column to the right and the 5th paragraph down from the top.

https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH18710613-V37-26.pdf

Offline Amo

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist Church claims
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jun 26, 2020 - 22:44:59 »
Really?

Page 4 of the pdf, 3rd column to the right and the 5th paragraph down from the top.

https://documents.adventistarchives.org/Periodicals/RH/RH18710613-V37-26.pdf

My bad. Obviously I was referring to the second quote, as I quoted the entire article, and the statement you supposedly took from it was not to be found in it.