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Author Topic: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday  (Read 9189 times)

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Offline World Calendar

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2012, 06:12:42 PM »
Yes, Sunday is the first day of the week on the Gregorian (Roman) calendar. But the Hebrews did not use that calendar, which did not even exist in the time of Moses, David, etc.

Often people observe that the word "Sabbath", or a variation, is used for the seventh day of the modern calendar in many languages. But these are modern languages which developed these words following the time of the Roman Empire and Constantine. Notice the Roman Catholic influence, for example, in Spanish:

Saturday = Sabado, Sunday = Domingo. Domingo means "Lord's Day", the Catholic day of worship, which is the first day of the week. Sabado reflects the Catholic idea of the Jewish Sabbath.

The Greek Σάββατο (Sábbato) is not ancient Greek. The key is seen when you notice the modern Greek word for "Sunday" is Κυριακή (Kyriake), which is the Catholic "Lord's day".

What is more revealing is that the ancient Greek word for "Saturday" is ημέρα Κρόνου (hēméra Krónou) which means "day of Kronos".  Kronos, is of couse, "Father Time", otherwise known as "Saturn".  "Saturday" is "Saturn's day".  The Sabbath is on a different calendar, which does not use a weekly cycle, so it does not coincide with any pagan day.

Even if the Roman Church knows that the original calendar was lunar, they have to fit their claims that the Resurrection occurred on Easter Sunday, the first day of the Gregorian week. They must call the seventh day of the Gregorian week the "Jewish Sabbath", in order to fit the Gospel chronology.   

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2012, 06:12:42 PM »

Online DaveW

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2012, 04:41:05 AM »
WorldCalendar, you are ignoring 3000 years of history of keeping time and the sabbath, a system in place at least a thousand years BEFORE New Testament times and recorded in the Jewish writings of the day.  The day is calculated from sundown to sundown.  If Jesus had any interest in changing it (or Peter or Paul for that matter) they would have said so in the NT writings.  They did not so the sundown to sundown calculation stands.

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2012, 04:41:05 AM »

Offline World Calendar

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2012, 08:18:58 AM »
Dear Dave:

I have provided Scriptures detailing the issues of the start of the day in replies #38, #41, #43, and do not want to clutter this post with repetition.

I challenge you, and others, to read the entire Scriptures, or at least the Torah, from beginning to end without preconceived theories about what you think they do or should say.  Pay special attention to the first occurrences of a word or phrase, and see how they are used. 

I notice in another thread you wrote something that applies to calendation:

Quote
OK Beta - you claim you are only following the Lev 23 scripture in keeping the feasts. Fine. How do you decide what day to start counting the Omer?  Is it the day after the Sabbath (meaning the first day of Unleavened bread) or the first day after the Sabbath (meaning the regular Saturday Sabbath that occurs during the week of Unleavened bread)?


The reason such a dilemma exists today is because both the Rabbis and Karaites  (note 1) are using a mixed calendar – part Biblical/Lunar, and part Traditional/Pagan.  There would not be such a question in the mind of Moses, who based all the feasts, including the Creation Sabbath, upon the Lunar Calendar. In the Torah, there is no possibility of having a  "regular Saturday Sabbath ...  during the week of Unleavened bread."  There was only one Sabbath that week, on the 15th of the month.  See:  http://world-calendar.info/feasts.htm

The Ten Commandments, in two separate renderings, prove that the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread is the same as the Creation Sabbath:
*   The Fourth Commandment in Exodus 20 clearly references the seventh day Sabbath based on Creation.
*   The Fourth Commandment in Deuteronomy 5 clearly references the seventh day Sabbath based on the deliverance from Egypt, which occurred on the evening of the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread.

If  there could be a Sabbath in the middle of the week, just a few days from the Sabbath of Unleavened bread, then it would violate the command to "work six days".  (There is an exception to this, the Day of Atonement, and I can explain why at some other time.) 

In today's calendar, a New Moon can occur on a Saturday.  But that was impossible in the Torah, because the New Moon and the Sabbath were always two different days, with different ceremonial requirements. How was it that the moon could not be "new" on the Sabbath? Because the Sabbath was counted from the New Moon, occurring 7 days after it, on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th.

So without having a preconceived opinion that there is a "floating Saturday Sabbath", one would discover from reading the Torah alone that there is never any allowance or expectation that there would be a Sabbath on which would "clash" against the other Feasts days.  There are no "rules of postponement" in the Scriptures, and the fact that such things even exist is proof that the calendar being used does not agree with the Torah.

-------
Note 1: The Karaites have freed themselves from many of the traditions of the Rabbis, but not all.  It is a similar situation to most Protestants, who claim that they have separated from the Roman Church, yet hold some of their traditions and doctrines.

At the time of Yahushua, the Sadducees regulated the calendar and the Temple service, and they kept the original Lunar calendar.  They disputed with the Rabbis and Pharisees, who had picked up traditions from Babylon, including a false system of calendation.



Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2012, 07:05:00 PM »
You are the one who views this thread as negative.  I posted it as an example of progress for the Seventh-day Adventist church. 

If only the practice would spread.

GE:

Sarcasm is the wit of the cheapest of minds.

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2012, 07:05:00 PM »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2012, 07:08:16 PM »
You are the one who views this thread as negative.  I posted it as an example of progress for the Seventh-day Adventist church. 

If only the practice would spread.
Its not a question of "progress."  The names of the days have changed.  They are still keeping the seventh day of the week.  It is the previous Sunday keepers who are now keeping the seventh day of the week.

GE:

Healthy, common sense! 

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2012, 07:08:16 PM »



Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2012, 07:18:11 PM »
The Samoa and Tokelau Mission of the Australasian division of Seventh-day Adventists has voted to keep Sunday in place of Saturday on the Island of Samoa just as members of the Tonga Seventh-day Adventist church do on their Island.  This is in response to the decision of the Samoan Government to shift the International Date Line to agree with the times and days of Australia.

This Sunday time period is the same Sunday time period that the rest of Christendom utilizes for church attendance in North America and the rest of the world.

To be fair, these Seventh-day Adventists believe that they are maintaining a facsimile of the chronological 7 day week.  In reality, This shift returns the observance of days in Samoa to the sequence and position observed prior to the last shift of the IDL in 1892 so the new day of SDA Sabbath observance is really the original day kept as Sunday up until 120 years ago.
 
The Official Samoan and Tongan SDA's will never have to worry about violating the phantom Sunday laws predicted by the SDA church prophet, Ellen White.
 

http://www.samoanews.com/?q=content/seventh-day-adventists-samoa-will-have-two-sabbaths-dateline-change

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/27/world/samoa-dateline/index.html

http://www.samoaobserver.ws/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37444:church-issues-statement&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50





GE:

Your opening statement "endorses", one thing for certain, that your heading for your thread, "The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday", is a shameless, shameful LIE.

And I am telling you this in your face while I am not even a Seventh-day Adventist, myself.

But it is very good you did this : It exposed the weakness and character of both position and holder of the position.





Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2012, 07:31:45 PM »
I am not 'anti' SDA.  I am pro-Gospel!!!   ::tippinghat::

GE:

If you were "pro-Gospel" as you - falsely - claim, you would have had a word of consolation and encouragement for well-meaning, genuine, Christians, regardless trivialities like the shifting of the dateline in the most scarcely populated parts of the globe. But you have no word to the edification of the Body of Christ's Own : BECAUSE you don't know the Scriptures but adhere to the traditions of men.

Another Sunday-worshipping hypocrite we have here!


Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »

... At the time of Yahushua ....



GE:

What's "Yahushua"?!

Sounds like you have a cold.

Eat less sweets and abstain from milk and milk-products.

Alright, eat, I see you cannot yet take solid food.

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2012, 07:58:45 PM »
This post shows that one cannot use the International Date Line in determining the Sabbath. In fact, the Sabbath does not use the modern Gregorian Calendar:  The calendar used by Moses in the Bible was based upon the phases of the Moon, not a continuous weekly cycle.

The Bible always uses the words "New Moon" and "Sabbath" together because <b>the Biblical calendar starts every month on New Moon Day, and the Sabbaths are always in the same place:</b> The 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days. This is why the feast days in Leviticus 23 have a Sabbath on the 15th day.

Today's calendar comes <b>straight from Rome</b>, developed by Constantine and modified slightly by Pope Gregory. The reason most Jews (and SDAs) keep Saturday today is the same exact reason that most Christians keep Sunday - because of Constantine's calendar change, and the persecutions by which he enforced these changes. Neither Saturday nor Sunday is the Biblical Sabbath.

Note that the Prophet Isaiah foretells a time when the moon will once again schedule true worship: "And it shall come to pass, that <b>from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another</b>, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD (YHWH). (Isaiah 66:23)"   

http://world-calendar.info/neither/


GE:

And this, comes straight from your THUMB! ...

"The Bible always uses the words "New Moon" and "Sabbath" together because <b>the Biblical calendar starts every month on New Moon Day, and the Sabbaths are always in the same place:</b> The 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days. This is why the feast days in Leviticus 23 have a Sabbath on the 15th day."



Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2012, 09:13:21 PM »

The first of the month is ALWAYS in conjunction with the New Moon (1 day after the total dark of the moon) and was determined by observation outside Jerusalem up to the Babylonian exile where the Jews came across Babylon's astronomers who had complex calculations for the phases of the moon and positions of the "wanderers." (planets)  

GE:


Incorrect:
"The first of the month is ALWAYS in conjunction with the New Moon"

Actually thefirst day of the _First_ Month ONLY,
"THOU" - the Israelites / man -
"MUST" – by God’s commandment - "PROCLAIM / DETERMINE / APPOINT / RECKON",
"IN THEIR SEASON" = according to / determined by / regulated through their YEARLY CYCLE.

The 30 days First Month and every of twelve 30 days months followed REGARDLESS ON WHICH DAY OF THE WEEK the first day of every month might have fallen.

The difference in the length of the year between the civil / religious calendar of 360 days and the solar-lunar-year would accumulate to one month of 30 days every 7 th year to bring about the 'sabbath-years', which again would bring about yet an extra month every 50 years, hence the jubilee-sabbath-years.

MEANWHILE THE WEEKLY OR SEVEN-DAYS-CYCLE OF THE CREATION-ORDER OR SEQUENCE CONTINUED unbroken, uninterrupted, intact 7 after 7 days ad infinitum ... JUST LIKE TODAY STILL.

Sometimes it might have occurred that the Thirteenth Month was observed as the Twelfth Month, Adar, OVERLAPPING the First Month, Abib / Nisan.
So in Esra 6:15 to 22 the dedication of the temple in the Twelfth Month and the passover in the First Month are --- for me --- inexplicably intermingled. What it does prove though, is the INDEPENDENT relationship between the dates on the monthly / yearly calendar and the weekly recurrence of the Sabbath Day.

I am of the opinion therefore the Samoans should not worry, but accept their new calendar  and move their observance of the Seventh Day Sabbath to the Seventh Day indicated on their solar calendar. That will bring them in pace with the rest of their brethren around the world under the sign of distinction of God Almighty’s choice, of who his People are and who those are who despise the Sabbath-sign of the God of his People, the Lord of the Sabbath Day. It is more important to be a co-sufferer with Christ than accept the conveniences the world has to offer even were it with regard to one’s keeping of the Sabbath of the LORD GOD.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 09:23:05 PM by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline current occupant

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2012, 09:50:42 AM »
You are the one who views this thread as negative.  I posted it as an example of progress for the Seventh-day Adventist church. 

If only the practice would spread.

GE:

Sarcasm is the wit of the cheapest of minds.


on the other hand......  the cheapest minds find sarcasm where NONE exists.

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2012, 09:58:24 AM »
The Samoa and Tokelau Mission of the Australasian division of Seventh-day Adventists has voted to keep Sunday in place of Saturday on the Island of Samoa just as members of the Tonga Seventh-day Adventist church do on their Island.  This is in response to the decision of the Samoan Government to shift the International Date Line to agree with the times and days of Australia.

This Sunday time period is the same Sunday time period that the rest of Christendom utilizes for church attendance in North America and the rest of the world.

To be fair, these Seventh-day Adventists believe that they are maintaining a facsimile of the chronological 7 day week.  In reality, This shift returns the observance of days in Samoa to the sequence and position observed prior to the last shift of the IDL in 1892 so the new day of SDA Sabbath observance is really the original day kept as Sunday up until 120 years ago.
 
The Official Samoan and Tongan SDA's will never have to worry about violating the phantom Sunday laws predicted by the SDA church prophet, Ellen White.
 

http://www.samoanews.com/?q=content/seventh-day-adventists-samoa-will-have-two-sabbaths-dateline-change

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/27/world/samoa-dateline/index.html

http://www.samoaobserver.ws/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37444:church-issues-statement&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50





GE:

Your opening statement "endorses", one thing for certain, that your heading for your thread, "The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday", is a shameless, shameful LIE.

And I am telling you this in your face while I am not even a Seventh-day Adventist, myself.

But it is very good you did this : It exposed the weakness and character of both position and holder of the position.







If what you say is true then why do the SDA administrators who fly around the world in the course of their work ALWAYS observe the sabbath according to the named 7th day of the week at the location where they are at the time and not according to the 7th day at the location of their residence.

The ad hom comments are noted as your inability to address the issue from an intellectual position.

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2012, 10:04:42 AM »
I am not 'anti' SDA.  I am pro-Gospel!!!   ::tippinghat::

GE:

If you were "pro-Gospel" as you - falsely - claim, you would have had a word of consolation and encouragement for well-meaning, genuine, Christians, regardless trivialities like the shifting of the dateline in the most scarcely populated parts of the globe. But you have no word to the edification of the Body of Christ's Own : BECAUSE you don't know the Scriptures but adhere to the traditions of men.

Another Sunday-worshipping hypocrite we have here!



I don't worship sunday.  I don't worship any day.  I worship God.

From your posts I understand that you likely believe in keeping the Sabbath on saturday.  If you do, please tell us the correct way that the Bible teaches to 'keep the Sabbath'.


Where does your worshiping saturday/sunday/sabbath or any other day get you??

Where does worshiping ON saturday/sunday/sabbath or any other day get any one?

Offline World Calendar

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2012, 08:37:15 PM »
Quote
>> What's "Yahushua"?! Sounds like you have a cold. <<


Yahushua is the Hebrew name of the Savior, written in English letters. The name "Jesus" as pronounced in English is not even close, although the Spanish pronounciation of "Jesus" is closer.  The Hebrew language has no "J" sound.

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Re: The Seventh-day Adventist church endorses the Keeping of Sunday
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2012, 12:18:18 PM »
Quote
>> What's "Yahushua"?! Sounds like you have a cold. <<


Yahushua is the Hebrew name of the Savior, written in English letters. The name "Jesus" as pronounced in English is not even close, although the Spanish pronounciation of "Jesus" is closer.  The Hebrew language has no "J" sound.

GE:

Because of this, you 'have the Truth'. se alie.